'The Watchers', Editor, Job ter Burg

0:00Jawad MirShe's quite talented. She's quite talented in her vision and what she's trying to do.

0:05Job ter BurgI… in my opinion, she's extremely talented. I…

0:07Jawad MirYeah

0:07Job ter Burg... I was blown away by what she achieved. And I mean, even up to the point where she's probably the youngest director I've ever worked with since I came out of film school.

0:21Jawad MirHow old is she? Is she in her mid-20s?

0:22Job ter BurgShe turned 24 while we were cutting the movie. She was still 23 when we shot it.

0:27Jawad MirWow. How did you get involved with Watcher, working on, with, M. Night Shyamalan's daughter? I think her name is pronounced Ishana. Ishana?

0:44Job ter BurgIshana, yeah, right. Correct.

0:46Jawad MirOkay. Yeah.

0:46Job ter BurgSo I have a friend from Switzerland, Noemi Priess Teyac, who had been cutting for Blinding Edge, Night's production company, for a couple of years on the show Servant, and then got to cut his film Knock at the Cabin. And then when Ishana was looking for an editor quite close to when she was going to shoot, she proposed I'd have a chat with her and she'd have a chat with me and see if that was a connection because she felt we might be a good match. And I think both Ishana and Night were q… were fans of Elle, the movie I did for Paul Verhoeven.

1:29Job ter BurgAnd we had, a great conversation, very inspiring, and I w… obviously they had sent me the script, which I very much liked, especially the way it was written because it was so,.. It was visually written, and it also had a lot of, sound notes in it. It was, like, a very, like, a cinematic experience. The whole thing read to me like a very cinematic movie. That doesn't always happen, so that was one of the thrills for me. And then meeting Ishana first and Night second was, both was just such a pleasure, and they have such great energy. And that… that's basically how I got involved with the, with the movie.

2:12Jawad MirThat's awesome. That's awesome. And, so she liked what you did in, Elle, and that's how she more or less approached you to see if there was a connection.

2:22Job ter BurgThat's basically where her enthusiasm stemmed from, as well as the recommendation from my friend Noemi. Yeah.

2:30Jawad MirThat's amazing. Based on the script, I'm not gonna talk about, much about the premise, because a lot of people haven't seen it, I'm sure.

2:39Job ter BurgYeah.

2:39Jawad MirAnd, I don't like talking about M. Night Shyamalan's movie. I mean, even though this is not M. Night Shyamalan, but you just... You know, somebody asked me, what was I having in this conversation? I was having a conversation with a colleague of mine. Th… he had seen Unbreakable, and I'm like, and I just casually mentioned, "Have you seen Split?" And he's like, "No. Is it good?" I'm like, "Yeah, you should watch it." Like, I wouldn't tell him why…

3:04Job ter BurgYeah

3:04Jawad Mir... Is it g… good, right? So I mean…

3:06Job ter BurgIt…

3:07Jawad MirYeah

3:07Job ter Burg... The hard thing about this kind of movie with mystery and suspense is that basically you need to know as little as possible about the movie going in, so it's always a little hard to discuss the movie w… with people who haven't seen it yet. And I totally agree. I mean, the less you know, the…

3:24Jawad MirThe better

3:24Job ter Burg... The cooler the experience is probably.

3:26Jawad MirYeah. What was the script that you read and the film that's out, how similar, if at all, exactly similar or not were they?

3:40Job ter BurgYeah. They're quite similar. I think they're very close. The biggest thing we did actually is rework some stuff in the third act…

3:50Jawad MirOkay

3:51Job ter Burg... Where... Let me just try and put it in…

3:55Jawad MirI…

3:55Job ter Burg... In sort of broader terms without spoiling anything.

3:58Jawad MirSure.

3:59Job ter BurgBut I think to me, like, w… when you're cutting a movie, the whole thing basically becomes a balance between character, plot, and tone. Whereas, and I think they might be equally important, whereas,.. And also influencing each other. So finding the right tone for the movie was a thing. Then making sure that the whole mystery plot and the whole, yeah, the whole mystery plot and the whole lore behind it sort of work and make sense and that you understand enough of it to n… to not detach yourself from the story, but also not to flood you with so much, of it that it sort of washes over you and you also may lose track. So it was a delicate balance. And then obviously character, like what drives these characters also. In hindsight, when you sort of know what the, what the whole thing, h… how everything ties together, in hindsight it still needs to make sense. So I will say that was a bit of a juggle. It always is, and especially on this one, I think getting everything and all the elements to balance out was a bit of a challenge, but I think we did, quite a, we a… we achieved it, I think.

5:22Job ter BurgAnd then that was, like if you compare the shooting script to what we now turned over, it's very similar, but there have been some changes to tone and to the way we weave in the lore in the whole thing.

5:37Jawad MirRight. And regardless of the shooting script or the material that you had, and that h… more than likely happens with every film, just in my experience as well, is that, you know, there are some scenes that end up going out for the reasons of the flowing, for the reasons of if it's not making sense, or is it necessary? Is it redundant, right? Was there quite a few of that, or… It's pretty much what you guys shot is what's in the film

6:07Job ter BurgNo, there's a lot that end, ended up not in the movie or in a different order and stuff like that, and there is like hundreds of tiny trims and stuff that we juggled around. The one thing I can say is that the movie had,.. There were orig… originally two sort of flashback-y things in the whole thing, so the opening sequence where you see a guy running through the woods…

6:33Job ter Burg... And you sort of get to understand what's... Or you get a glimpse of what's happening in those woods. Originally, during his walk, we had these flashbacks to him and his girlfriend in the car. And we started minimizing them because that whole thing just felt, I don't know, it's, it seemed like too much, and we just… we started trimming it down and down and down, and it just became less and less and less. Until even after a couple of previews where people were responding quite well to it but still not as great as we wanted to, we ended up taking all of them out. And that changes a little bit of how you get into it, but it also makes the prologue just a little more like a prologue, and it just feels like it's more of a separate, prologue thing before we actually get into the, get to our main character. So that was a big thing. And the other thing is that there are a few flashbacks of our main character, Mina, played by Dakota Fanning, w… in her childhood and what happened there.

7:43Job ter BurgAnd that has been, that has seen pretty much any place they've had in the movie. We… we've, we've tried them pretty much anywhere, and they ended up in the places we have them now, which I'm very happy with. But I will also say that what happens in them was actually changed during the editing process, so we flipped some stuff around. I can't really say what it was without spoiling…

8:09Jawad MirYeah

8:09Job ter Burg... The movie.

8:10Jawad MirThat's fine.

8:10Job ter BurgBut we did significantly change what happened in those flashbacks and how they play out, and obviously where they end up in the movie. And then there's other stuff that I remember is, like, when Mina, I can easily say that she ends up in the woods and something is, something weird is going on in the, in those woods, and she meets a couple of other people there that she ends up sort of having to live with. That first day was always a little bit difficult where people were wondering, why doesn't she leave? Why doesn't she try to leave? Why is she just sort of staying there? So actually what is in the, in the, what is in the film the first day used to be the second day, and what we used, what is in the film the second day used to be her first day in the woods.

9:01Job ter BurgSo we did a quite a, quite a bit of a flip there, and that meant eliminating a scene, it meant sort of juggling around some stuff. But I mean, that happens on every movie, right?

9:12Jawad MirYeah.

9:13Job ter BurgIt's, it's, that's the kind of stuff we do in editing, and especially with Ishana and Night and the whole team at Blinding Edge, because they have a wonderful team, of executive, creative executives and, our producer Ashwin, all of them, weigh in on versions of the cut, and it's like a great creative process where everybody is pitching ideas and we try a whole lot of different things. We do quite a few previews where we test the movie with an audience, bigger, smaller, where we ask them questions or have them fill forms and usually have focus group sessions afterwards, and that is very informative, especially when you're doing something like... I mean, I mean, I would never cut a comedy without it, I think. I would also never cut a suspense mystery thing without it because you just have to check what, that what you're doing…

10:12Jawad MirThe beats

10:13Job ter Burg... Still works for somebody who doesn't know…

10:15Jawad MirYeah

10:15Job ter Burg... The whole premise.

10:17Jawad MirYeah, 100%. I mean, the beats are just so important, right? Like, where…

10:21Job ter BurgAbsolutely

10:21Jawad Mir... Is what clicking. And one of the things that you mentioned about moving around scenes or, shots or whatever, you know, in respect to the story, it is so true because I, you know, I don't like to edit my own films, but, one of the films that I did, ooh, I can't... The first film I did was I edited it, but then the second one I was kind of like the rough cut and then I brought in the editor and kind of put it away. But it's always like a prog… a process of moving scenes around, and what's so amazing is you think one flow is working, and if you move it around, how is it gonna work? But then just somehow things start connecting and it starts making more sense, and that's such a beautiful thing about editing. You know how they say that the film is written three times, right? On paper, during production, and in post. But I think the fun there is in post to rewrite the story, I don't personally feel there is much at production.

11:27Jawad MirI mean, there is in production and script writing, but just editing just, it just has such... Because you have everything in your place and you're just juggling it around and it's such a cool experience. As annoying as it can get sometime, and, you know, cumbersome, but it's such a cool experience.

11:41Job ter BurgYeah. So I think the big advantage we have in post-production, in editing, is that what we think we wanna try, we can relatively quickly try…

11:51Jawad MirYeah

11:51Job ter Burg... And then see what it does. Whereas if you write something and you rewrite something, you can envision how you wanna do it and how you wanna change it. Someone else has to read it and they have to imagine what it's gonna look and feel like. So you sort of have to convey whatever is in your head through words to somebody who then has to create images of it. Whereas we can present something as an actual scene, as an actual reel, or as an actual movie… And say, "Well, this is what it feels like if we, if we skip this scene and add that beat, or add that music there, or leave out this line, or add this line," or whatever. And that's the fun s… thing about it…

12:33Jawad MirYeah

12:33Job ter Burg... Right, is that you get this, these immediate results, and everything you do has, like, an immediate effect on the finished product in a way. Or even if it's unfinished, but, like, on the actual work in progress. Whatever you do has an immediate v… like, visceral, sensible effect on what it does. You feel it, you see it, you hear it. The impact is really clear.

12:58Jawad MirYeah. It is, it is absolutely true. And, you know, going back to Watchers, so I'm not gonna talk about what I thought about the film. But I'm gonna talk about the tone. You know, the tone was really... So, you know, it's difficult to, when you're watching it knowing it's M. Night Shyamalan's daughter, who's directing this, and to detach yourself from that style…

13:31Jawad Mir... And it's a similar, it's a similar genre, right? Like, th… th… that's, that's just the reality of it. But I just feel there was something in there which I cannot pinpoint. And there were some things that I didn't enjoy about the film, but that's not my main thing. But the thing is, the tone of the film, she really kept her own voice in there, but at the same time, had s… little bit of flavor of her dad's style. And I thought that was really cool because some... It's a really difficult thing, especially in the same genre, not to match, you know, to s… sort of detach yourself from that. So I think she did a phenomenal job in directing. And obviously, you know, it comes in post-production, it comes to cinematography and all that. So that was really cool. I thought the tone was, hers, and it was her voice that was coming out, as opposed to, you know, her dad.

14:24Job ter BurgI love that you're saying that. I feel the same way. Obviously, having worked with her for so long, I think, that is something she really set out to do. I think it's something she got a lot of room to do from the production company and everyone involved. She and him are quite... I mean, I've, I got to observe them relatively closely because he was involved as a producer on this movie. He was at the same time, when we were cutting, he was shooting his next movie, Trap. That is supposed…

14:57Jawad MirRight

14:57Job ter Burg... To be, that's gonna come out in August.

15:00Jawad MirI'm looking forward to that

15:01Job ter Burg... And they were, yeah, and they were cutting next door to our cutting room. So we're all, and, like, our assistants were in the same building and everything. So it was like we were... It was just a r… really close collaboration there. Having seen him, he works in a different way than she does, or she works in a different way than he does. They each have their own sort of sensibilities, and I think she was very aware, that she was very clear about what it was that she was trying to achieve. And I think, tone and approach, that all those things were very much hers from the get-go. That was something that was important to her. And obviously, yeah, there is gonna be that relationship because th… there is this similar genre, there is this whole…

15:48Jawad MirYeah

15:48Job ter Burg... Thing with, suspense and mystery and twists and everything. It, th… there's that, but I mean, th… the biggest sort of, th… the big thing is that I think both of them basically use genre components and tropes, and then try to sort of mold them a little bit or i… or fuse them with something else. So where this movie is basically, it's part supernatural creature movie, and it is a fantasy movie as well. It's also a fairy tale, and it's, it's a blend of the two. And that makes it, I think makes it unique. That was also a difficult thing, right? Because it's not... You cannot compare this movie to many others out there and say, "Well, that combination has been done," and that's sort of, these are the rules that you then sort of have to stick to, or the conventions that people are used to so that you can make use of what they expect.

16:53Job ter BurgSo wh… whenever you do that, whenever you sort of bend the genre or make a fuse of genres, you have to sort of reinvent it in a way to sort of find where the, where the expectations of the audience are, and what you can do to sort of shift them and prep them and make sure that the, that they go along with you. And the other thing I will say is that, I mean, ag… again, I love that you say that she has her own voice in this movie because I really feel that way too. And one of the things that helps in that sense is that she is, she has an amazing eye for detail on every, on everything, right? So she will find great people to work with, a great cast. She will find a great DP. Eli Arntzen was, did absolutely an amazing movie, amazing work on this movie. Sh… we had a great production design… designer, Ferdio. He was, he was absolutely great. And on all these terrains, she brings in great people, and then works with them even at the granular level.

17:55Job ter BurgSo she has an, she has overarching ideas, but she will also get in, get into, like, really small, granular detail sometimes, right? Not all the time. There's a lot that you as a, as a head of department can contribute and bring to the table, and then there will be some things where she gets, like, really granularly involved. And that's... But at a very good level. So knowing where she comes from and then getting into the details of it also tells you how… How good of a vision she has about the whole thing. And everybody working with her is inspired by that, right? So if a director has these ideas and can get to the g… both at the, at the bigger level and at the granular level, and they are connected at your particular discipline, that is just such a great thing to experience because then you're, you're getting into the nitty-gritty and into the detail, and all those details, in my experience, all those details are what a… are the things that add up to what makes a movie f… stand out in a way or that contributes to the effect of a movie having that voice, that specific tone, that own sort of entity in a way.

19:14Jawad MirRight. And, actually I'm speaking to Eli today, hopefully, if everything goes according to plan. But, you know, going back to... I'm, I'm trying to think of the way to explain this scene without talking about the scene.

19:27Job ter BurgYeah.

19:28Jawad MirWhen you said detail, the first thing that came to my mind was, the scenes that sort of take place just before the last act, at a location that's different from others. I think you know what I'm talking about. There's a lot of details in there, and that I really connected with. And it just… Because you have this environment where they're in, and then things sort of shift a little bit, it just, there's so much character. There's so much character, and I think the production designer, I don't, I don't know, who did the production designer? Sorry. Who…

20:06Job ter BurgFerdia. I f… I forgot his last name.

20:09Jawad MirLet me look it up

20:09Job ter Burg... His name is Ferdia. He's Irish. He was absolutely wonderful. They… He and his team did such an amazing job on the sets and the, and the whole thing that every… everything looks. Yeah.

20:20Jawad MirYeah, I'm just gonna double-check what's the name. Yeah, Ferdia Murphy.

20:26Job ter BurgYeah.

20:26Jawad MirYeah. Yeah, phenomenal job, on production design. And, you know, you talked about M. Night, you talked about Ishana, and they were cutting separate movies, you know, next room, or in the same building. How... You know, even though as a producer she… as a director, she wants, she needs to be independent, but at the same time, producer is a producer, right? And then it adds a little bit more to the, for the lack of better word, drama if the producer is your dad, and how that relationship sort of works and balances out. D… what was that like as a professional relationship slash personal relationship? Did you int… see anything like that? W… was he involved in the post-production sessions?

21:15Job ter BurgOh, absolutely. Like, N… Night is so involved with everything he does, also the movies that he produces. And obviously, like, as soon as we got, like, beyond director's cut, the whole Blinding Edge team, was involved, and they are absolutely a wonderful, creative bunch of people. And then, a… and Night is basically a p… a part of that whole team. So he's, he gets in… he g… very much gets involved, and I think, both Ishana and he were very good at, making that a professional relationship first and foremost.

21:55Job ter BurgPlus, and that was the real good thing about it, is that I found that in, on this movie, and it doesn't happen on every movie, but on this movie, everybody who was involved at the productional level was, at the producer level was so involved in a creative manner and in a constructive manner, and it was never about ego. It was never about me wanting to implement my ideas to the movie. It was about…

22:21Jawad MirRight

22:21Job ter Burg... Everybody responding to the movie, pitching ideas, supporting each other i… s… ideas, building on top of them. And that way I th… I think that was part of the great professional experience I had there work… working with them, where I really felt that creative level was, well, exceptional in my experience.

22:44Jawad MirRight

22:44Job ter Burg... Obviously there is the thing that, he is her dad and, we were all living sort of, working around the same facility and everything. So there was that, obviously. It wasn't bothersome in any way to me. I mean, I cannot comment on how they must have felt, and it might have been difficult from time to time. But overall, I have to say that I found both of them to be exceptionally professional. And at the same time, I mean, they're, they're very, they're very warm and kind people. Th… they, both of them are demanding, right? In the sense that they are ambitious, and they want the very best, and they wanna achieve the highest goals. They set the bar real high. But they are also very good, both of them, at inspiring the people around them and making sure... It re… when you, when you're working on that film, you really feel that all of us are a family. That includes my visual effects editor, and my first assistant editor, and our VFX producer, and his assistant.

23:50Job ter BurgEveryone just felt part of a family and of a team, and felt involved and appreciated. And that's one of the things they do so well, and that I think helps them achieve things that other people might not be able to, because they don't bring along that kind of energy and involvement.

24:11Jawad MirRight. And, you know, one thing, I want to mention, because this comes up anytime when there is someone involved in a film, whether he or she is an actor or an art director or director, that comes from the film family, right? Like, that comes from the film family. And these are the conversations that I have with people and I've read this on when I was just checking out the reviews after watching the film, you know, the key… the word that kept popping up was nepotism, right?

24:41Jawad MirAnd my whole, my whole thing with that is, and I, and again, this is, like, by far just to explain to the audience that Ishana didn't just hop on to direct a film, right? She's been working with, M. Night for a while. She worked on The Servant and a bunch of other productions that he's done. So she's worked her way up. Okay, does she have an advantage over other people? Sure. However, and this involves... I think that's… that applies everywhere in every industry. If you make a good movie or a bad... If you make a bad movie and if you star in a bad movie, your performance is really bad, you might get one or two chances, and then no matter whose son or daughter you are, you're done. You're finished. And the amount of pressure that you have belonging to that kind of world to be able to live up to that is, I think, very tough. And if you can make it work, you know, few times, then people normally just stay quiet and they move on. And then they'll still say the nepotism because she's making a great film because her dad is involved.

25:44Jawad MirThe reason I brought that up, it's a conversation I have with people besides this film all the time, that yeah, sure, okay, the people have advantage, but you can't sustain that advantage if you suck, you know, for the lack of better word.

25:57Job ter BurgI agree.

25:57Jawad MirYeah. And I think, you know, based on what I saw in the film, she's quite talented. She's quite talented in her vision and what she's trying to do.

26:08Job ter BurgI… in my opinion, she's extremely talented.

26:11Jawad MirYeah.

26:11Job ter BurgI was blown away by what she achieved. And I mean, even up to the point where she's probably the youngest director I've ever worked with since I came out of film school.

26:25Jawad MirHow old is she? Is she in her mid-20s?

26:26Job ter BurgShe turned 24 while we were cutting the movie. She was still 23…

26:30Jawad MirWow

26:30Job ter Burg... When we shot it. I hadn't fully realized she was that young, to be honest. And I will say, while we were working, I sort of had to remind myself a couple of times a week that, oh, wait, it's her first movie. Because when you're working with her, there's nothing that indicates that she is a first-time director. There was nothing. It was, it was like a second nature to her, and also the amount of, preparation she had done, how prepared she was for this, and how hard she worked, and how well aware she was of everything that was needed to get this film to the finish line, I was, I was just blown away by it. I completely agree with you that, I don't know. I think she's very, was very aware, much aware…

27:20Jawad MirI'm sure

27:21Job ter Burg... That she was in a lucky position to do this movie. She might have occasionally thought that, oh dear, this is quite a big movie to be your f… to take as your first movie, which I think just sort of happened more than that it was actually planned. It was just this project that ended up being offered…

27:42Jawad MirYeah

27:42Job ter Burg... To her and she, it made a lot of sense that she would do it, and she felt a strong connection to it. And then she went for it. I think she was also very aware that it just meant she had to work real hard to make sure that nobody would say that she hadn't earned that chance…

27:58Jawad MirRight

27:58Job ter Burg... Or that it was too early or whatever. But I totally agree with you. And I mean, and also, like, yeah, n… nepo babies, I mean, if you wanna be, if you wanna be a fisherman and you're from a fisherman family, that's, that's, that helps.

28:15Jawad MirYeah.

28:15Job ter BurgIf you are, if you are the son of a fisherman and you wanna, you wanna be a stockbroker, it's, it's less, yeah, you're not a nepo baby. So it just de… depends. I mean, obviously everyone have, e… everyone will have their advantages and disadvantages. Some people will be privileged in one way, some will be privileged…

28:35Jawad MirExactly

28:35Job ter Burg... In another way. I mean, even, like, I mean, one of the issues with film schools these days, I think, or that, not these days, like, forever, is that in many countries in the world, film is not seen as a regular profession. It's sort of out of the ordinary. So many people will, not from their cultural background, and I'm talking, like even around me back home in Holland where I was sort of part of a middle-class, white, European upbringing. Even around me it was not that common to do something like that. Like, most people would go and study economy or business or whatever 'cause that was the thing everybody around them was doing. I was lucky enough because I was the son of a, of a composer musician, so that helped a little bit of me already seeing that there were other possibilities out there. But it is, in many cultures and upbringings, it is considered this weird thing, and people don't think that is something you can actually do for a living.

29:40Job ter BurgAnd that also means that sometimes it becomes, like, these, it's more a thing for upper class or richer people or whatever to go to film school because it's, it sort of almost seems like this ex… exclusive thing that you only do if you can afford to. There's that. I mean, there is... So different people will have different privileges and…

30:06Jawad MirYeah, agreed

30:06Job ter Burg... And everybody who gets a chance should be very grateful for the chances they get, and try and hang on to them, and make sure that you're worth that shot that you got.

30:18Jawad MirIt is so true, and I think, it's true in every culture. But I find, in the Middle Eastern culture as well as South Asian culture, it's a very difficult thing. Like, I have been I knew that I d… I wanted to do this with my life, like when j… the first Jurassic Park came out.

30:39Job ter BurgYeah.

30:39Jawad MirRight? A… and it's been like an ongoing uphill, downhill battle, and it always will be, and that's fine, because that's life. You have to have battles all the time in order to go up. But it's difficult. Now I have come up with this line, which it took me a long time to figure out. I literally have to say to people when they ask me, "What do you do?" When I tell them I, you know, I make films for a living, they don't understand it. But when I say, "It's a business as well," then they might get it. Because when they say films, they don't associate making money or paying, you know, your income or whatever with that. It's like, oh, it's just like grabbing a camera and off you go. It's like a massive project, just like making a building.

31:26Job ter BurgAbsolutely.

31:26Jawad MirYou know? Like from…

31:27Job ter BurgYeah

31:27Jawad Mir... Storyboards and blueprints. So, and it's true. It's, it's sad, but at the same time, I think maybe that's what gives us all the motivation in the world to not necessarily to prove to them, but just work hard and keep at it.

31:41Job ter BurgIt's, I mean, w… we are, we are lucky in the sense that we found something that we really love doing…

31:48Jawad MirYeah

31:48Job ter Burg... And then are lucky enough to be able to make a living doing that. And I mean, that is, that is the thing I'm most grateful for, I think, in the world, having that.

31:57Jawad MirYeah.

31:58Job ter BurgAnd yeah, I'm, I consider myself very lucky to be able to do that.

32:03Jawad MirAwesome. No, that's great. Just few last things, Joop.

32:07Job ter BurgSure.

32:08Jawad MirWhat's next, what's next for you, man?

32:10Job ter BurgNot completely sure yet, but the project that is most likely to start in a couple of months is a new film by director Martin Koolhoven, who a couple years ago did Brimstone, and before that did Winter in Wartime. They're Dutch-international co-productions.

32:27Jawad MirOkay.

32:28Job ter BurgS… and he's doing a film noir set in, Indonesia ar… at the time of Dutch occupation just after World Worth… Wo… World War II. So that is a pretty exciting project that I, that might be the next pro… project that I get to hop on to.

32:50Jawad MirThat's awesome. I think you worked on him on Brimstone, right?

32:53Job ter BurgYeah, I did Brimst… I did every, I did all of his feature films ever since we met in film school. So I did Brimstone with him, I did Winter in Wartime, and everything before that, yeah.

33:02Jawad MirThat's awesome. I actually was just going through your IMDb. So you worked a little bit on, at least that's what the IMDb said, additional editor on Creator.

33:09Job ter BurgYeah, I was on that for about 10 months or so. That was a s…

33:12Jawad MirOh, so you…

33:13Job ter Burg... Such a huge enterprise. Yeah, I w… I s… I started on there as an additional editor during the shooting, together with Joe Walker, who's a friend of mine, who was cutting the movie, and it was just a ton of footage. So before the movie started, he asked if I wanted to join in and help him out throughout production during the shooting period. And then, he had to leave to do Dune. And other, and other editor team came in, so that was Scott and Hank. Came in at the, Scott Morris and, Hank Corwin came in with their team. But then they asked me to stick around for a bit because I knew the footage that well, and then I got to linger around that project for quite some time. But it, that was a movie that was in post for a long time, so I was on it, well, I'm saying 10. Maybe it was eight months all in all or something, but over the period of, between January and December of that year. Yeah.

34:14Jawad MirGreat. That was actually a great film. I really liked that film a lot, and I'm a huge fan of Gareth Edwards.

34:20Job ter BurgYeah, he's amazing. He is such…

34:21Jawad MirYeah

34:22Job ter Burg... A talented guy.

34:23Jawad MirHe is. I would actually love to chat with you, maybe even Joe, if you guys can hop on for Creator just, in the next, you know, whenever you guys have time.

34:31Job ter BurgSure.

34:32Jawad MirThat'd be awesome.

34:32Job ter BurgDrop me a line. Yeah.

34:33Jawad MirWonderful. And just to, this is something I ask in the beginning, and lately I've been sort of going all over the place with it. How did your journey begin in the world of films? I know you said your, you know, your dad was a composer, but what was that moment? Like for me, the catalyst was when I saw the Jurassic Park, the Jurassic Park trailers, not even poster. Like I didn't even see the movie for 16 months, and I knew that's what I wanted to do. But what was that moment that made you…

35:04Job ter BurgI think it was a year when I saw E.T. And The NeverEnding Story in one year…

35:10Jawad MirOh, I…

35:11Job ter Burg... Probably, in the cinemas…

35:12Jawad MirI love th…

35:12Job ter Burg... In cinemas when they were released. And both of those made, were so involving that I wanted to be in film. And I, originally I thought, "I wanna be an actor."

35:24Jawad MirAh.

35:24Job ter BurgAnd then, later was like movies like Back to the Future came after that, I think, was one of the movies I saw over and over again. There was this Dutch movie called, The Lift, Es… the Escalator, the…

35:41Jawad MirOkay

35:41Job ter Burg... The Lift, right, yeah. Which was like a horror movie. They did some s… sort of a, like an American remake called Down around 2000 or whatever. That wasn't as great. But that was, that was just a very scary movie that I really liked. And I was sort of interested in how they were made. And then in high school, I started to act in the theater, but I also did lighting and stuff, and I, directed a little bit. But I always felt attracted to movies and TV, both of them, so I always w… wanted to get into film. And then at some point I started, I got a chance to start making, s… little movies with a couple of friends in college, and that's sort of when it took off.

36:26Jawad MirWow.

36:26Job ter BurgAnd then when I got to editing, that was... B… 'cause the other thing I was doing at the same time when I was in, when I was still in school was, in high school, was, I was DJing and cutting up like quarter inch tape, tracks to cut up

36:42Jawad MirNice

36:42Job ter Burg... To do remixes and stuff, and use record players to mix and everything like that. And then when we got to w… when people showed me how editing was, like editing video footage at the time, that just was the click for me, because it was everything. And it still is. Like, I mean, you're, it's the creative joy of being able to juggle around sound and picture to your heart's content, and at the same time use that to wrangle performances and tell a story, and be able to involve people in a story. That's what triggers me still to this day, which w… that is the thing that is still most fun to me.

37:25Jawad MirIt's amazing that you mention NeverEnding Story and E.T. I mean, E.T. A lot of people like, but not many people talk about NeverEnding Story as they should, because it's one of the most amazing films ever made.

37:36Job ter BurgIt's such a beautiful film. Yeah.

37:38Jawad MirYou know? From effects to the music to the performances and, you know, it's such an amazing film. And I hope they never remake that, but I have a feeling they probably will, the way things are going in Hollywood.

37:52Job ter BurgYeah. You always run that risk. But we'll, we'll have our version.

37:56Jawad MirYeah, no, I... Have you seen the second one? I haven't seen the second one.

37:59Job ter BurgThe second one I never saw, no.

38:01Jawad MirYeah, I never, I've never seen it either, yeah. I don't think I will, because I love the first one so much. I don't want to ruin it.

38:07Job ter BurgThat's the thing is h… it's, it's hard to beat that sensation of the first one.

38:11Jawad MirYeah. It was an amazing film. Awesome, Joop. This has been great, man. Thank you so much for all the detail breakdown and everything. I really had a great time chatting with you. Just, not just on this podcast, but just as filmmaker to filmmaker. Amazing stuff.

38:23Job ter BurgLikewise, Johan.