'Chandu Champion', Production Designer, Rajnish Hedao

0:00Rajnish HedaoThis one take never happened before. This was some 15, 20 pages of a scene. You know, it was a book. So I designed a set with, you know, 50 tents and watchtowers and things like that. Because this scene starts from the drone, it establishes the whole, military base, and then it goes down, and it goes from behind the tents, it crosses 20 tents, and it goes at one place where coach is there, and, the actors go join him. They have a conversation. So there's a circular trolley. So…

0:29Jawad MirYeah

0:29Rajnish Hedao... This Steadicam guy was on the drone, then wa… then cut to he sits on a buggy. So half the time he was on the buggy, then half the time he's running towards them, going back, and at the same time, all the blasts are happening.

0:50Jawad MirHow did you start working with the director on, in previous films? Because I know you have sort of worked with him over time, Kabir Khan.

0:58Rajnish HedaoRight.

0:59Jawad MirSo what was the journey like, on that? How did that start initially?

1:06Rajnish HedaoOkay. So, it was, I think, almost around 20 years back when, Kabir, came to Bombay from Delhi. He was working with some, you know, some production houses over here. And, we have associated to on one game show. And it was for Zoom Television. So there was this channel, for Times of India, it's called Zoom, and he was doing a show…

1:33Rajnish Hedao... On that. So I worked on that with him, and that was my first meeting with him. So we have worked quite like around a month on that thing, and that thing went well, so we worked on another, and then we parted away. Th… this was around 20 years back probably. Because I was doing some advertisement, and he was writing a script, et cetera, et cetera, so he got busy in that, and I got busy in, of course, my work. And then, I think I, after four or five years, he called me for Kabul. That was his first, this thing, first movie. And

2:07Jawad MirKabul Express, right? I think it was called Kabul Express.

2:09Rajnish HedaoKabul Express, yeah.

2:10Jawad MirYeah.

2:10Rajnish HedaoKabul Express.

2:10Jawad MirYeah.

2:11Rajnish HedaoSo that was his first movie, but, I was busy with lot of other things, so it took us almost another four or five years to work together. And, we worked on, Bajrangi Bhaijaan, so that was my first film with Kabir, on Bajrangi Bhaijaan. So, what can I tell you about him? I think, he's one of the best directors. Like, it's not only about, telling a story or directing a movie. It starts with, you know, your persona, your knowledge, your information, your personality. So I think that catches more. You work with the person for what he wants, you know, to match…

2:55Rajnish Hedao... The frequency le… length or, you can call it a wavelength. So that was more important, to be, you know, what exactly he want... To understand person, basically. Because, you know, any script you give, and we'll... I'll put up a set or I'll design a set, but it's not about that. It's about how aptly you know, design, sets or design a background for a particular person according to his taste or according to his storytelling. So I think, he's a, he's a bank of knowledge, so wherever go, you go, he has lots of things to say, lots... He has lots of experience. He was a documentary maker, and he's a good photographer also. So he knows…

3:38Jawad MirYeah

3:39Rajnish Hedao... Things. He knows things well. So he reads well, so he understands well. So I'm, I'm, I have studied architecture from JJ College of Architecture. So I… ... Have that, you know, technical, information about design, et cetera, which he understands very easily. So it becomes very easy to share notes, talk about the scene or about the look or authenticity, all those things. So it was a great journey then, Bajrangi Bhaijaan, Tubelight, For What And Army, '83, and then this Chandoo Champion.

4:14Jawad MirThat's great. No, I... You know, there's very few directors in, India who I really admire consistently, and I said this to, Sudeep as well, with Vinod Chopra, Sanjeev Kabhansali, Rajkumar Hirani. Kabir is one of them for sure. And I relate more to Kabir because my background, even though it was never supposed to be like that, started in documentary filmmaking as well. So I completely understand his... The... I can see that in the films that he's done. There's always this element of journalist. There's always this element of, you know, trying to get the facts right, like, you know, the au… because that's what a documentary filmmaker…

5:00Rajnish HedaoYeah

5:00Jawad Mir... That's what a sto… regular filmmaker should do, too, but with documentary it's a little bit different, right? But yeah, he did a... I didn't know anything about Chandoo Champion, even the story itself. Like, I didn't, you know, never heard of it, and I think a lot of people probably never knew.

5:14Rajnish HedaoYes

5:15Jawad Mir... How did y… did you know before coming onto this film that there was such an individual that existed?

5:20Rajnish HedaoNo, I didn't. I didn't. I got to know about him, like, two, three years back. W… I, all these years I've been working with Kabir, so one day he was talking about that he's interested. There is a chap called Murlighan Petkar. He stays in…

5:33Jawad MirYeah

5:33Rajnish Hedao... Maharashtra. I am a Maharashtrian.

5:36Jawad MirOkay.

5:36Rajnish HedaoI've been staying around, and I have no idea about, I had no idea about Murlighan Petkar. So that was first time Kabir told me about him, and I got really interested. And his story's very interesting. It's not a normal sportsman, you know? He was into... He was... He comes from a village, then went to, army, military, then… you know, the war, then boxing, and he, like, plays two, three games like Akhada, so wrestling, boxing, and then swimming. And there are lots of turns, in his life. So it's, like a, rollercoaster ride, his life we can call it. And very…

6:20Jawad MirYeah

6:21Rajnish Hedao... Special on each and every move… moment. So it's, it's actually inspiration for kids, you know, and for everyone. So, yeah.

6:34Jawad MirI think it's inspiration for everyone because one of the things I loved about the story, 'cause, you know, normally you have a story like, you know, a boy wants to be a cricketer, a boy wants to do, be an entrepreneur. Like, you know, you just see his path kind of unveiling to that one goal.

6:50Rajnish HedaoRight.

6:50Jawad MirHis goal was just getting a gold medal, right? I mean, at Olympics. But the way his story pivots, right? From... That's not like a... A lot of people when they g… if he… a lot of people if he had gone, if somebody else had gone to the army, his life may have stayed in the army, and that's it. He would've sort of given up, you know? Or one after the... But he just kept going, and especially his coach, Ali. I forget the gentleman who plays that he's an amazing actor.

7:16Rajnish HedaoVijay Raaz. Vijay Raaz.

7:17Jawad MirYes. Yeah. He became a great catalyst, especially…

7:22Rajnish HedaoYeah

7:22Jawad Mir... When you go to see that fight, in the, in the wrestling ring, and how he tells him that he's 40. And that's, I think, a message for older people too that, you know, a lot of people think when they're in their 40s and 50s life is over.

7:36Rajnish HedaoRight.

7:36Jawad MirWhat's the point? Like, you know?

7:37Rajnish HedaoRight.

7:38Jawad MirBut he didn't give up, and despite his condition, I thought it was such an amazing story, and it's so…

7:43Rajnish HedaoYeah

7:43Jawad Mir... Good to see amazing stuff coming out that is based on true stories now, in India. Because those are the things that people need to live up to, look up to, like their history and where, you know, people have gone through and what they've achieved.

8:01Rajnish HedaoThat's right. In the story there is a dialogue, like, in Murlikant's life, he, tries go achieve something, and he fails. You know? Like, he tries to achieve in boxing, but he fails there. So there are a lot of moments like that. He wants to do something, but he couldn't. So Vijay Raaz, his coach, tells him that, "Champion ""So that was a very catchy dialogue, you know? And it's very re… it's very relevant to our lives also, that, this like failure is okay, but you should try, you know? Even in…

8:35Jawad MirYeah

8:35Rajnish Hedao... Rajkumar Hirani's film you have things like that. So with Rajkumar Hirani, I worked on PK and 3 Idiots mainly. So…

8:43Jawad MirYeah

8:43Rajnish Hedao... So it's, it depends how joyful, your profession is. It depends on your directors. It depends on your colleagues, how knowledgeable they are or what they have to offer, how they are from inside, outside. You can actually rate them, you know? So…

8:59Jawad MirYeah

8:59Rajnish Hedao... That's the entertaining part of it. Apart from your grati… creative satisfaction, these are the things which matters, really matters.

9:08Jawad Mir100%. And then in that same scene there's a longer line which I probably can't translate properly in English, but the gist of it was, you know, the only person that you shouldn't be listening into is that your inner voice that's telling you not to do it, you know? And I think in all of our lives, that's really the problem. It's never the outside forces, as crazy as they are, it's always not believing in ourselves. And I think that is so pivotal in everybody's life. But going on to your work in the film.

9:39Rajnish HedaoRight.

9:40Jawad MirRight? A period piece, you know, that starts off in the '50s and goes all the way to the '70s, and then obviously 2000, you know, '17, '18 time.

9:50Rajnish HedaoRight.

9:51Jawad MirWhat was... Obviously that's a challenge, but challenge, challenges excite creative people.

9:58Rajnish HedaoRight.

9:58Jawad MirYou know, you wanna do something different. What was one of the most... What, where did you d… draw inspiration from? Was there a specific movie that you saw, or was it books, or was it just research? Like, any kind of particular inspiration that you drew from to create the wonderful world of Channu-Channu Champion?

10:18Rajnish HedaoRight. Actually, it can be a summary of last 20 years or what I have studied. You know, in architecture, we have studied the history of architecture, you know? So you read Taj Mahal, and then there was something called as humanity, which is the most, you know, interesting subject. In humanity, you talk, you read, or you read about, people, their migration, their culture, you know? So in designing, more than pencil and a paper and a eraser, you need to understand the culture to design a piece of set or a space, you know? So it's about culture. So, when... And in culture, it's, it's a vast thing. It's not a small thing. So in culture there is a language, there is food, there is habitat, there are houses. Architecture is just one part of that. You know, you have fields, you have types of crops, you have festivals. You have lot, many things. You have vernacular architecture or, you know, different kind of architectures, how the house is going to be, in Maharashtra, you know?

11:26Rajnish HedaoNow Maharashtra is on the sea base, on hilly region, inside the jungles. So there are kind of places. So, about the inspiration, see, the story inspires you basically. Okay? So when the story inspires and when you read, then you get into the, you do a research. So any film, it starts with the research. You read the script, you chalk out the locations. "Okay, this, these are the locations, and this is how the village is going to be." So then you study about the villages. Okay, so, I'll just give you the example then, doing…

12:00Jawad MirSure

12:00Rajnish Hedao... All these things. In, 1950s, the area where Murlikant Petkar comes from, that is, western Maharashtra, there lot of wrestling happens there And a lot of people from there goes to the army. There are some villages which are very famous about that. So Murlikanth is not from that village, but m… in 1950s or 1940s, everyone used to wear white clothes in villages, you know? So, you, when you make, so that thing interest you because when you make a palette, there will be a red mud, then there will be a yellow grass, and then there will be a white, costumes, you know, white, wears everyone is wearing. So I have seen this picture some 20 years back in one of the magazine, maybe Dharma Yog or something, this mag… magazine used to come at that time, where there is a wrestling akhada, this wrestling ling… ring, we call it akhada, and there was this red mud, two wrestlers, and everything white, and the mount is white. So I'm, carrying that image in my mind, generally carrying, I don't know where it is going to end.

13:03Rajnish HedaoI think it got a very good end, in terms of Chandu Champion, where I executed that whole thing. So, it was not a inspiration, but it was always there in my mind that something like that, this I like. It can be a food also, or it can be something else also, but it happened to be the same thing. So you get the color palettes and, you know, things from there. So if you see the akhada scene, you don't see much there. You just see a ring and people standing. There is no set designing. There are no sets erected. Yeah, there is one stage on one side, but you don't s… see anything built or executed, you know, like a big production. Only this people and wrestler and a one ring. That was the production design behind all this,.. And this was the, all this visual, and this was the taking, takeoff point for his life also, you know? So when people go back home, they remember that. They don't remember wrestling, but that palette in their mind, like a dream or, you know, like a print.

14:06Rajnish HedaoIt gets printed. So that's how everything comes. Like, I've done many film with Kabir. He always do war films, and they're always period, so research is always there. But then it's, pan-India research. You know, you have to concentrate, come to one place and, you know, do these things. So there are a lot of things. We have a, we have found a village here in, near Bombay, it's called Wai. So we shot lot of stuff there because it has got same contouring, same mountain as of, where this guy come from, Mr. Murlikanth Petkar.

14:43Jawad MirIt's interesting you mention the white and that image that you've had for a while. If I, right now in this moment, think about the movie… ... Four to five things pop in my head, right? And one of them is that aerial shot of, people standing in white, and you see the landscape, you know, in the distant. And it's, it's a beautiful scene, not necessarily because the landscape, as amazing as that is, but those people in white, that really pulls you in a very interesting way.

15:18Rajnish HedaoYeah.

15:19Jawad MirSo that w… that I th… I'm glad you mentioned that because I was gonna ask you about that. So that is a beautiful, beautifully designed and very simple, like you said, like, you know, you just have…

15:28Rajnish HedaoYeah

15:28Jawad Mir... A stage that you have to build. The other thing that I was really impressed by, obviously so I'll be talking to Sudeep about this too, but you have a big hand in it too, is the boxing ring.

15:39Rajnish HedaoYeah.

15:40Jawad MirAnd the crowd around it and everything. Talk to me about that. I mean, that, I haven't seen that in Indian cinema, to my knowledge, in that capacity. I could be wrong, but please do talk about that.

15:55Rajnish HedaoYeah, the boxing ring. So, see, here the, you need to know, not you need to know, but one need to know what is the focal point of the whole thing… ... Because people are going to see that only, you know? So in the stadium you'll have 30,000 people, then, you have different flags, you'll have banners, you have journalists or, you know, people with the cameras on one side, so a lot of flash guns, et cetera. So, that is the general picture. Then referee sitting on one side and some, Kulik, player will be sitting on other side. So you get this seven, eight kind of different visuals. You know, the stadium walls, people, referees, flags, banners, journalists, cameras, all those things. But our main focal point was Murlikanth Petkar and his opponent, and his coach standing next to him. That was the only visual was in our mind, and even I told that to, Sudeep also, and that is where we wanted to concentrate. That is the only area, you know? So, we built this set in a film city. So we just build a boxing ring, and, we had this, sloping, you know, steps on all the sides.

17:13Rajnish HedaoBasically we have the sloping sl… only on one side. We did the VFX for the other, this thing. We were, that much of interior place is not available in Bombay, at least, that big studio… ... Because the stadium is too big. And our main focus was the boxing ring and the lighting above that and the character inside. So that was only our vision. So, Sudeep has done a fantastic job on that, in fact. It is more…

17:37Rajnish Hedao... Of a Sudeep's work than mine, you know? I made everything simple probably, you know, by just giving A, B, and C, but Sudeep, got that whole thing into a life, you know? And then we had few shots on the same ring, which comes, he comes to his mind while he's swimming, the last bit of his swimming, you know?

17:59Rajnish HedaoHis life goes, in front of him while swimming, and all those shots are taken on that boxing ring. So it's a…

18:06Jawad MirThat was really well done, I thought, the flashbacks.

18:08Rajnish HedaoYeah.

18:08Jawad MirThat was really beautiful. It was really beautiful.

18:11Rajnish HedaoRight. Yeah.

18:12Jawad MirBut yeah, no, s… I mean, it's a collaborative effort, right?

18:16Rajnish HedaoYeah

18:16Jawad Mir... So, you know, it's, it's on the films that everybody's goal is to make a great movie, and sometimes that doesn't happen, you know, for whatever reason, but nobody c… goes out to make a bad movie. Everybody wants to make an amazing movie. But it's, it's, it shows the collaborative e… You can tell in a movie or at a company or at a business that things are coming from heart of a team, and it shows that in this film, too. Every single frame, you know, is con… consists of costume, consists of set design, consists of lighting, consists of performances, is... You could tell there was a lot of heart in it. Everybody did a phenomenal job, and which takes me to my, the next scene, which is again more of a Sudeep question, but at the same time you had a lot to do with it, was the long take of the, I don't know…

19:11Rajnish HedaoWar sequence

19:12Jawad Mir... 1965, the war sequence.

19:14Rajnish HedaoYeah.

19:14Jawad MirYou know, I had read somewhere that it's like one take, but when it started, like, and the, you know, the aerial came in and the camera kinda kept consistent, but for you had to obviously design everything around, like, you know, the tents and everything and to be able to make sure that... Because Kabir's vision was p… you know, from the beginning that y… we wanna do this in one take or two takes because there are some cuts when the dust comes up and everything. How was that challenging for you? Had you ever done anything like that before? That, you know, because if something goes wrong, you have to do it... You can only do it once.

19:51Rajnish HedaoRight.

19:51Jawad Mir'Cause if something goes wrong, then the budget kinda kicks in, time kicks in.

19:56Rajnish HedaoYeah.

19:56Jawad MirHad you done anything like that before, and what was the challenge in doing so? Were you nervous?

20:02Rajnish HedaoI was not nervous because it was exciting. So if it is exciting, then you don't get…

20:08Jawad MirYeah

20:08Rajnish Hedao... Nervous. You just keep to… keep working towards it. So…

20:12Jawad MirGood answer.

20:13Rajnish Hedao... This one take never happened before. I did that one take thing, before, for Agent Vinod.

20:23Jawad MirOkay

20:23Rajnish Hedao... So th… there was this song and there was one action sequence, so we did that in Agent Vinod, so that was some 10, 12 years back. So, I did that. But this was entirely different. That was a restaurant, corridor, hotel, that kind of a thing, and a very small space like this place was one kilometer, that was some probably 3,000 square feet or 5,000 square feet, you know? Shriram has done, that. He was the director of, Agent Vinod. Shriram Raghunan.

20:53Jawad MirOkay.

20:54Rajnish HedaoSo we did…

20:56Jawad MirOkay

20:56Rajnish Hedao... That, over there. So, in this case, Kab… it started with that this is, this is a kind of a scene and there are,.. It was not... The one scene is generally of two pages or three pages. This was some 15, 20 pages of a scene. You know, it was a book, because all the scenes or every moment is come together in some pages, right? So it was a 20, 25-page thing. So, Kabir, of course, he has, explained us, how it's going to be. So I designed a set with, you know, 50 tents and watchtowers and things like that, and I started explaining him that this is how you should do, you know? But of course, that's not the way how I will tell him, right? It's the way he wants to…

21:38Jawad MirYeah

21:38Rajnish Hedao... To work. He has conceived it.

21:40Jawad MirOf course.

21:40Rajnish HedaoSo, okay, so I made a floor plan, everything. We made a model also. And, then Sudeep was there, Kabir was there, other people were there. Then while looking at the model, we understood, okay, so these things are possible and these things are not possible. Okay, so let's say there are 100 things to be shot. After making the model, we realize that 50 things are possible, and the other 50 things are not possible w… but we can do it by changing the way of it, you know? So we have to work on that. So, it... You can't, you know, make it on a full, paper and show it, so we made a model, which is a movable model. You can move the tents, you can move the machine gun area, you can move the watchtowers, et cetera. So we sat on a big table, big four dining tables together, made a big model, and we started shooting that with the mobiles and other camera how the action is going to be. And we, did all that, and then again after 15, 20 days, I came up with the, proper model, how... This is how we are going to shoot.

22:41Rajnish HedaoOkay. Then again, there were changes, so there were two, three meetings, three, four meetings, and lot of designs we made on that, and the models. So it was like that. But then there were some scenes where the watchtower collapses, you know?

22:53Rajnish HedaoNow in one take camera you see everything, so you have to hide people also.

22:57Jawad MirYeah.

22:57Rajnish HedaoYou have to take extras on one side, so that was another chall… challenge. Shooting is fine, but now you have to manage the whole area, right? Because this scene starts from the drone, it establishes the whole, military base, and then it goes down and it goes from behind the tents, it crosses 20 tents, and it goes at one place where coach is there and, the actors go join him. They have a conversation, so there's a circular trolley. So…

23:24Jawad MirYeah

23:24Rajnish Hedao... The Steadicam guy was on the drone, then w… then cut to he sits on a buggy. So half the time he was on a buggy, then half the time he's running towards them, going back. And at the same time, all the blasts are happening, you know. So there were a lot of, department working together, like everything writing on the paper and doing stuff, you know, that you should not go. The blast has to happen, right? If it doesn't happen, everything you have to do it again. So, in this case, as I told you, we have built the, things. See, we didn't have a lot of budget, you know, like a big movie star budget. We had 50 tents. We had to manage in that. But when you're going from one side, you see tents, but now on the other side when you go, there are no tents. So by the time camera goes there, some people have to pull them Pull this tent, you know? Take this…

24:16Jawad MirOh, really?

24:16Rajnish Hedao... And go to that place and put the tent there. And the camera will go from within the, underneath the tent and, you know, reveal something. So there were a lot of, not challenges, but interesting things. Of course, there was a pressure because of the number of days you shoot in Kashmir, sunlight, shadows, clouds, et cetera, et cetera. So a lot of other stuff was there.

24:38Rajnish HedaoA lot of blast was there, so the connection has to happen properly, otherwise the blast won't happen, you know? And at one point we had to, there is a, plane comes in and it struck the watchtower and the watchtower falls down. So we made a separate model for the watchtower, and because there is a bunker next to it where all the characters go and…

25:01Rajnish Hedao... Sneak inside, and the watchtower falls on top of that, so, you know, they should not get injured. So that whole bunker was made out of metal, and we covered that with metal. So when the people were inside, it should protect them, right? So that bunker was a completely metal-made bunker.

25:18Jawad MirWow.

25:18Rajnish HedaoAnd, over there we, that, this thing also, like this has to fall, you know, properly like this.

25:26Jawad MirRight.

25:26Rajnish HedaoSo we had to cut the... We had to give pre-cuts to the columns of the, watchtower, you know, on a clip, and then some people have to at one point remove the clip and someone has to pull it from down here. So there were 20 people with the ropes, et cetera, standing there. So that one cut I was, you know, ordering my people, someone was ordering their action people, someone was ordering SFX. So there were m… many plenty of directors, you know, directing one scene, and Kabir was sitting there in the stress that everything should go correct, you know?

26:01Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

26:02Rajnish HedaoYeah. So that was the thing. Now those people who are pulling the watchtower should not come in the frame, you know? So all these things were happening together, but we did it, like, we did it. Actually we celebrated on that evening when we finished that shot that it was like us, "Oh, we are done the film now."

26:20Jawad MirNo, it w… it was, it was an amazing shot because I remember it. I watched it yesterday and I was, when the aerial start shot in… ... Aerial s… shot started, right? And it comes down. And as soon as... And I'm thinking in my head, "Is this going to be like, are they gonna take off the camera from the drone and then go on a dolly or a Steadicam?" And when that happened, I was like, "Okay, this is gonna be a long take," because, you know…

26:46Jawad Mir... You don't s… you don't do that unless it's gonna be…

26:49Rajnish HedaoRight

26:49Jawad Mir... A long take.

26:49Rajnish HedaoYeah.

26:50Jawad MirBut the great… the best thing I liked about it, and that's where your work kicks in, is that when the camera goes 360 round the three characters…

26:59Rajnish HedaoRight

26:59Jawad Mir... As a production designer, like, you wanna make sure that everything... Because everything will come in the shot even though the camera…

27:07Rajnish HedaoYeah

27:07Jawad Mir... Is moving really fast.

27:08Rajnish HedaoRight.

27:08Jawad MirLike, you have to make sure everything is to the detail. So that speaks a lot about your team and your work and obviously everybody in the crew. Yeah, I absolutely loved... And it was not just, it was not as a gimmick that it was done. It worked because in war or in, you know, in a sequence like that you have to keep the audience intact. Then if you cut…

27:32Rajnish HedaoRight

27:32Jawad Mir... You're gone, right? So it was really well done. I really, I really enjoyed it. So how many days were you in Kashmir for?

27:40Rajnish HedaoWe did a lot of prep in Bombay. We had got all those tents, everything made, and we have sent some 10 trucks from here, around 10, 11 trucks from here to Kashmir with the, set material. And we build it there. We took eight to nine days, almost 10, 12 days to build the set over there. Because again, you build the set and you do the practice. We would practice also took three days with the camera and everything, you know, because everything has to go perfect. So actually doing that shot was a different project and doing the rest of the film was a different project.

28:11Jawad MirI'm sure. I'm sure. I mean, that itself is a film. Like, you can just, you know, a short film…

28:16Rajnish HedaoRight

28:17Jawad Mir... Like that. You don't even need to have everything around it if, you know... It was just really well executed. And, I thought, so this is…

28:27Rajnish HedaoSo, in Pahalgam…

28:29Jawad MirYeah. Go ahead.

28:32Rajnish HedaoYeah. In Pahalgam there is a place, from Pahalgam there is a place, which is, around 20 kilometers called Aru. And there are a lot of meadows, but the meadows are, like, around 300 feet high. So every day morning you have to go there, you have to walk up there, and then you do your stuff. Once you go up, you can't come down. You can't come down for a food or any… you can, but then who wants to come down and again…

28:55Jawad MirYeah, and go back up

28:56Rajnish Hedao... Go back, climb back there? So we used to cook our food over there only, you know? Make some Maggi, make some khichdi, and have it.

29:05Jawad MirThat's really…

29:06Rajnish HedaoSo that was very fun, like…

29:07Jawad MirThat's a really cool experience.

29:10Rajnish HedaoYeah.

29:12Jawad MirThat's awesome. The finale sequence, the swimming pool…

29:19Rajnish HedaoRight

29:20Jawad Mir... Was that... Where was that shot, first of all? Was that in India or outside?

29:25Rajnish HedaoThat was, we shot that in London.

29:28Jawad MirLondon? Okay.

29:28Rajnish HedaoThere is a structure made by Zaha Hadid. It was made for last, sports games, I think. I don't remember exactly. It, the place is called Aquatica or something, and, we have shot, there. So we shot there for four, five days. We made certain things for that. So it's a beautiful Olympic-level, swimming pool. But we did some close-up shot, et cetera, in Bombay, some patchwork. But primarily we shot…

29:54Jawad MirRight. So, you know, that's a, that's a building by itself. It's already, like, a arena. There's a swimming pool. There's people sitting there. How does your work get in there in terms of the details when something is already there? Like, if you can just sort of educate, people, like how did you... What did you do in that scene that made the scene as it is from a production designer standpoint? I'm not saying you didn't…

30:21Rajnish HedaoRight

30:21Jawad Mir... Do anything. I'm just saying that I just wanna know. That's all.

30:25Rajnish HedaoRight. So, no, in this case there was not much of a work, you know?

30:29Jawad MirOkay.

30:29Rajnish HedaoWhat... Because you can't change the structure, you can't change the water. It's mainly with…

30:33Jawad MirYeah

30:33Rajnish Hedao... The water and the character. So, over there we generally make signages, stuff like that. We have made some bleachers, because where the swimming pool was, if you take a shot from there, the bleachers were far away and at the top. Okay?

30:47Rajnish HedaoSo you don't really see that. And, in '50s and '60s, not '50s and '60s, but around, '70s, this was supposed to be in Heidelberg, Germany. So…

30:58Jawad MirYeah

30:58Rajnish Hedao... The people sits very close to the swimming pool arena, swimming pool, okay? So here the distance was too much, because nowadays there are different design has come up and, you know, it's got the international design and they can see or whatever by giving different heights and all. So, near the swimming pool we built some bleachers, like around 100 feet, and we make people sit on those bleachers. So in short, you see a, guy swimming and you see the people at the back. Otherwise what you'll see, the wall, you know, at the back.

31:29Rajnish HedaoThe people are sitting on top of the wall. So there were those things, and then you add some banners, to show that it's a Heidelberg, Munich 1972 Olympics, Paralympics. So you add those elements, like small... We just dress up the place basically.

31:45Rajnish HedaoSo, to give that flavor of that era we just add few thing. So there is a jumping box, you change that, and then you put that winning box. You know, stuff like that. So small elements, makes it, takes you back to the period.

32:03Jawad MirRight. Which, you mentioned Munich. 'cause when that scene came up, Munich 1972 Olympics, the first thing that came to my mind was there was a film called Munich. I'm not sure if you've seen it.

32:15Rajnish HedaoYeah. Of course.

32:16Jawad MirYeah. So that... I had a feeling that's where it was gonna go, but I didn't know that actually happened during that time when he was on the, you know…

32:24Rajnish HedaoOh, okay. Okay

32:25Jawad Mir... Wheelchair. So that was…

32:26Rajnish HedaoRight

32:26Jawad Mir... That was interesting, because, I mean, not a lot of people know about that.

32:31Rajnish HedaoRight

32:31Jawad Mir... And especially in the context of what's going on in the world right now. I thought that was quite interesting. But yeah, you know, one, when on the, when the film ended, I was just... You know, you're just gonna sit there trying to figure out what did you just see, right? And in my head I'm trying to understand does this film... Because different, it's not like your typical, you know, there's a s… there's a structure to a certain film. Th… this structure was a little bit different, and it…

33:06Rajnish HedaoRight

33:06Jawad Mir... Because it w… it was the way his story was, because it went from here to there to there, you know? And to be able to put that together in a cohesive way is a very challenging thing. I real… I think if one word comes to my mind, and I'm not trying to draw comparisons because I... It's not in any way a comparison. It felt to me... I saw Forrest Gump when it came out 30 years ago, and that feeling that I had at the end of Forrest Gump where a character goes through a certain amount of history…

33:42Rajnish HedaoRight. Right

33:42Jawad Mir... I mean, it was m… it was made up, but in this case it was actually true in how he goes through…

33:48Rajnish HedaoTrue.

33:48Jawad Mir... A certain amount, you know, history. So i… i… it was a really cool feeling. I just wanted to share that. I thought it was... It was really well done. It was really well done, and I'm glad that…

33:58Rajnish HedaoNo, right. Yeah. Absolutely

33:59Jawad Mir... The film, made people aware of this story, because nobody knows about it.

34:04Rajnish HedaoRight. And tell the story in a very authentic way and an entertaining way.

34:11Jawad MirAuthentic. And I think that's where his documentary skill set comes in, because documentary filmmaking is authenticity, right? And then you're trying to work with the actors at the same time, so it's a fine balance and it shows very nicely.

34:26Rajnish HedaoRight

34:27Jawad Mir... How did your journey start? Why did you wanna become a production designer? What was the catalyst?

34:34Rajnish HedaoOh, okay. So, it's a simple story. It's not a story, it's a simple thing.

34:38Jawad MirIt's a story.

34:38Rajnish HedaoI finished my architecture from…

34:41Jawad MirYeah

34:41Rajnish Hedao... JJ College of Architecture, and then, after doing your degree you have to do a professional practice somewhere, you know? So I went to Delhi. I was in Bombay studying, and then after five years I went to Delhi to work for a, this thing, for a, intern, to work as a intern.

34:59Rajnish HedaoSo over there I found a person, and that person my brother, my brother was, from Jamia Millia Islamia. He was a director and he used to make documentaries, right? So he was making a film called Architectural Heritage of India for BBC Channel 4. Okay? So when he was making that film, I got interested in that. So I'll... I was doing my intern also and I was doing this also. So I started working with him, and I worked on two projects. One was for Jaipur and one was for Agra. Okay?

35:30Rajnish HedaoSo it was never, accomplished, like that project left in between and those things happened, but I got interested in, you know, in camera. You know? See through the camera how the world looks. And then, after that I came back to Bombay and I directly started doing set designing for United Television. So I worked for someone, I had worked on a mega series. That was a period of mega series in 90, 97, '98. You know? 1997, '98.

36:00Rajnish HedaoSo a lot of mega series used to come. Initially it was 13 episode, 26 episode, but this mega series was some 200, 300, 500 episode. So I worked on that and, that's how I got from, architecture to, you know, filmmaking. And from there I started MTV, Channel V, advertisements, and then feature films.

36:21Jawad MirNice.

36:22Rajnish HedaoSo.

36:22Jawad MirYou mentioned mega series. I was reminded of one series. I've never seen an Indian series, like normally, like, you know, if I wa… used to watch as a kid were, like, Pakistani dramas. But there was one series that I watched with my mom. I don't know how many episode it had, but I know…

36:40Jawad Mir... We watched 82 episodes.

36:42Rajnish HedaoOh, which was it?

36:43Jawad MirIt was called, it was called Amanat, the one, he was... He had, like, six or seven daughters, and he was a single dad, and it was, like, one problem anoth… after another, after another. And I think about the ki…

36:56Rajnish HedaoWhat was the name of the f…

36:57Jawad MirAmanat

36:58Rajnish Hedao... What? Amanat, okay.

37:00Jawad MirI think that's what it was called. I think that's what it was called. You know Gracie Singh from, Munna Bhai, the first Munna Bhai?

37:09Rajnish HedaoYeah, of course, of course.

37:10Jawad MirShe was in it.

37:12Rajnish HedaoOh, okay.

37:12Jawad MirIt was, it was around that... It was before that. I think she got picked into Munna Bhai because of that, because it was a very popular ser… series.

37:20Rajnish HedaoOkay.

37:21Jawad MirSo but anyways, I mean, I just, it just triggered a memory. I wanna say among all the stuff that you have done, 83 is my favorite.

37:34Rajnish HedaoOkay

37:35Jawad Mir... And I don't know if it's because of cricket or what, but… it's,.. It was really well done. I... You know, to work at Lord's, and to be part of such an amazing story... I mean, it's an amazing story. It's an amazing story…

37:52Rajnish HedaoYeah

37:52Jawad Mir... And I really enjoyed it. And your…

37:55Rajnish HedaoYeah

37:55Jawad Mir... And it's obviously a, this period piece, you know?

37:58Rajnish HedaoRight

37:58Jawad Mir... So your work, it stands out. What's next for you? Anything interesting coming up that you can talk about?

38:04Rajnish HedaoRight now, there is nothing interesting. I sa… I'm doing some small projects, but I think Kabir is starting something, so I'm probably wait for that. So nothing challenging right now. I just... I was working from last two years. I was taking a break, so I'm on that zone right now…

38:21Jawad MirGood

38:21Rajnish Hedao... Taking break.

38:23Jawad MirThat's awesome

38:24Rajnish Hedao... I'm into really. So nothing in the thing. There are lot of talks going on, but nothing that I can mention it here, you know?

38:33Jawad MirYeah, no, I know. I know how that works. Completely understandable. Is there a particular film that you like in terms of production design anywhere from anywhere in the world? It could be Hollywood. It could be India. It could be South Korean.

38:49Rajnish HedaoYeah. I would like to say, you know, to give the Indian context, I like, Gandhi very much.

38:55Jawad MirOh, it's an amazing movie

38:56Rajnish Hedao... You know? Yeah, by, directed by Richard Attenborough because it has…

39:00Jawad MirYeah

39:00Rajnish Hedao... Lot of Indian,.. I have seen all that thing. I have loved Gandhi. I have read lot of things about Gandhi, so I can relate with that movie. And, in Chandoo Champion, where we have used akhada and the people with white dresses, so it comes from actually there. Yeah.

39:17Jawad MirYou know, it's so funny you mentioned that because when you were talking about the white dresses earlier…

39:22Rajnish HedaoYeah

39:23Jawad Mir... I was thinking about Gandhi, the movie…

39:25Rajnish HedaoRight

39:25Jawad Mir... Because there was a lot of, lot of white because, you know, that's what he wore too, right?

39:29Rajnish HedaoYeah.

39:30Jawad MirYeah, that is a great film.

39:33Rajnish HedaoYeah, it is.

39:33Jawad MirI gotta see that again. It's been a long time.

39:35Rajnish HedaoYeah. I don't know when it r… it got released in 1983 or '84. I was in…

39:39Jawad Mir'82

39:40Rajnish Hedao... Fifth or sixth standard.

39:41Jawad Mir'82.

39:41Rajnish Hedao'82, yeah.

39:42Jawad MirYeah.

39:42Rajnish HedaoI was in fourth, fifth standard. I went with my parents to see that movie, and I remember I was,.. There is a last scene where Pandit Nehru, you know, immerse Gandhi's, Mahatma Gandhi's ashes into the…

39:55Rajnish Hedao... Ganges. And then there is, Hari Prasad Chaurasia and their music, background music, you know, "Vaishnav Jan To Tene Kahiye" with sitar, so that... And the flute. So that is very much printed, in my mind. So I would say that movie, you know? That movie, that management, that designing, and the, that authentic look which they have given, the sarees for the women, for the villagers, you know, ex… exact, like... It was all costume drama. I can't say that this set piece is nice, this is nice, but it was all locations…

40:32Jawad MirNo

40:32Rajnish Hedao... And all. But the production design doesn't mean that you're designing something on the paper and executing it.

40:38Jawad MirYeah.

40:38Rajnish HedaoIt's about the look of the film.

40:41Jawad MirYeah.

40:41Rajnish HedaoSet designing is secondary, tertiary probably. So it's about…

40:45Jawad MirI…

40:45Rajnish Hedao... It should look authentic.

40:47Jawad MirNo, for sure. And with Gandhi, I think if there's one scene that really stands out for me is during that same scene that you talked about the flute and the music.

40:57Rajnish HedaoYeah.

40:57Jawad MirFor me, it's his... There's a dialogue that he talks about. He's like, you know, "There have been murderers and tyrants, but in the, in the end, you know, the love always prevails. Think of it always." You know, that whole line. It... He says it during that time too, that, the ending scene, which is really powerful. And it's, it holds true, sadly, to this day, and it probably will…

41:19Rajnish HedaoYeah

41:19Jawad Mir... Because the world is a messy place. Also…

41:24Rajnish HedaoWorld has always been like that.

41:26Jawad MirNo, I know. People think it's really bad, but I think because of media, it's, it looks... It's bad, but it... And it always will be bad, unfortunately. That's just the way of human be… human nature

41:37Rajnish HedaoYeah. It's how we see it, you know? At what all different stages of our age we, our perspective changes, so…

41:45Jawad Mir100%

41:45Rajnish Hedao... We think, "Yeah, aaj kal bahut kharab ho gaya." But it has been al… It is getting better, I think, you know? After World War I, World War II, slavery before that, then independence…

41:55Jawad MirYeah

41:56Rajnish Hedao... And then I think it is getting better, you know? You can, you can walk in…

42:00Jawad MirI think…

42:00Rajnish Hedao... The streets daily.

42:01Jawad MirI agree with you to a certain extent, but I think it's also subjective, right? Somebody who's going through something, for them the world…

42:08Rajnish HedaoIt's their place

42:08Jawad Mir... Is a ter… terrible place too, right?

42:10Rajnish HedaoIt's, it's a big world.

42:10Jawad MirBut I agree with you overall. Like, we have evolved a lot

42:14Rajnish HedaoRight

42:15Jawad Mir... You know. Listen, this has been great. I really appreciate your time. I would love to chat with you again about some of your past work if you're ever up for it, like PK, 3 Idiots or a bunch of other stuff you've done.

42:28Rajnish HedaoYeah. Sure. Anytime.

42:28Jawad MirI'd love to do that.

42:30Rajnish HedaoYeah.

42:32Jawad MirThank you so much for your work.

42:34Rajnish HedaoNice talking to you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you.

42:35Jawad MirPleasure is all mine. And, thank you for…

42:37Rajnish HedaoThank you for liking the movie.

42:40Jawad MirWell, I mean, it's, it's... I ju… I'm just amazed that... You know, it's... I'm just trying to find the right word. There are so many stories like that out there from all over the world that we don't…

42:53Rajnish HedaoRight

42:53Jawad Mir... Know about, and it's just good to see. There's no better form than cinema, not because I'm in the same world, but just truly.

43:01Rajnish HedaoRight. Yeah.

43:01Jawad MirThere's, there's no better form than cinema to preserve history, and I'm glad that it's being done in, like, all across the world…

43:07Rajnish HedaoRight

43:07Jawad Mir... And it needs to be done more.

43:10Rajnish HedaoThank you.

43:11Jawad MirGreat. Thank you so much. We'll talk to you again.

43:13Rajnish HedaoThank you.

43:13Jawad MirThank you so much for your time.

43:14Rajnish HedaoSure. Thank you. Bye-bye. Thank you.

43:16Jawad MirBye-bye.