'Lady in the Lake', Composer, Marcus Norris

0:00Marcus NorrisI try to focus on output, not outcome. Like, so, or another quote I like is like, "If you take care of the days, it take care of the years," or, "You take care of the hours, and that take cares of the days." So I just focus on, like for me, my way of getting through any type of like resistance is like I just set a timer. And there's just something magical about it. Like I, my phone's away from me, and I just, I set a timer on my computer and I'm like, "Okay, today, no matter what, no matter how many meetings or emails I have to do, I'm gonna get at least three uninterrupted hours." They can be like, broken into sections, like, you know, maybe half-hour blocks or whatever, but like, if it's half-hour blocks, all right, I'm gonna get at least six half-hour blocks where I'm not doing anything else. If I'm just sitting here fidgeting around for half an hour and nothing useful comes from it, that's okay, but you are gonna have to go through that anyway, so it's like, just get those times in.

1:08Jawad MirI saw this two and a half episodes so far, I just... And, I have… It's a, it's… I didn't even see the trailer, like I didn't know anything about the series, right? And the only thing that came to my mind when I read it, when I saw the name Lady in the Lake was there was a movie in the late two thou… early 2000, Lady in the Water by M. Night Shyamalan. I don't know if you've ever seen that.

1:31Marcus NorrisI don't know, I don't know that one.

1:33Jawad MirBut that... Yeah, it's, it's probably not one of his best movies. In any case, that's the only thing that sort of, you know, came to mind, and then when I started watching it, I don't know who was in it, like zero knowledge. And it really hooked me on, and especially the music.

1:49Marcus NorrisThank you.

1:49Jawad MirAnd which is why, which is why I'm here talking to you, about your work in this series. But before we do that, I would love to know how your journey started in the world of music. What inspired you, the catalyst, any of that thing? That'd be great.

2:07Marcus NorrisYeah. So, my path to composing is definitely not traditional. I grew up making beats and producing music. When I was thirteen, my uncles introduced me to a software called Fruity Loops a… at the time, and I was hooked. And you know, I spent some years doing that, and it was just kind of like a journal for me. I didn't like share it with anybody. It wasn't for that. It was just for expressing myself. And then I ended up getting a, scholarship to community college in my state, and I, just scoured the internet trying to find one that had a program for, music and recording technology. And then, but then while I was there, I got introduced to like music history and some basic music theory, and I was just like hooked. I'm, I'm like, I hadn't like heard of anybody who was thinking about music the way that these composers were thinking about it.

3:10Marcus NorrisAnd these orchestral textures and these things, they weren't in the R&B or hip-hop that I loved. So I just added that to my vocabulary. I was… I got my doctorate now in, classical composition and orchestral things. And, but along that path, I was asked like, by Adamma Ebo, she's a writer-director for a film I did called Hong for Jesus. She was listening to some of my like orchestral work and was like, "This is movie music." And I was like, "Is it?" I was like, "I don't know." And you know, and but she was right in hindsight. And, yeah, now I've been bit by the film and TV bug, and I've always liked the medium, but I didn't know it was something I could do. Yeah. And so now I just haven't looked back since then. I've, I've done relatively a lot in a short amount of time.

4:07Jawad MirThat's cool. Congratulations on getting a doctorate.

4:10Marcus NorrisThank you.

4:12Jawad MirIt's incredible. I mean, even though, you know, the way you just sort of summarize it sounds very easy and fancy, but it, I'm sure, I'm sure it wasn't even close, especially, you know, it's one thing to have a skill set, right? And it's one thing to sell your skill set, but it's a really big thing for someone to discover your skill set and then sort of push it. And kudos to, I forget the lady's name that you just mentioned who was on Hong for Jesus.

4:42Marcus NorrisAdamma.

4:43Jawad MirAdamma. Yeah. She recognized that, and you know, not to take away from your work, but just it takes, especially… those little things make a big difference in your path and your…

4:53Marcus NorrisHuge difference

4:54Jawad Mir... You know, in your road and where you're going, and you always remember that, and it looks like you have remembered it, and I'm sure you will remember it for a long time.

5:03Marcus NorrisAlways.

5:04Jawad MirYeah. Who's, which composers have you… I mean, it's a question I ask almost every composer, but it's just, I love movie scores. Before, well, just around the time that I decided that I wanted to get into film business as a director, long time ago, I was listening to… My first soundtrack was either knowingly was a score, either Last of Mohicans or 1492: Conquest of Paradise by Vangelis and by, I think it was Trevor Rabin, and I forget the other composer, Michael Kamen maybe. And music is such a powerful thing that without even creating anything, you can just visualize in your head all these visuals. You can even create a story. You know, just like you can create millions of different stories. That's such a beautiful thing about music. Who inspired you as your journey of, you know, whether it was getting into movie music or just in music, listening to those c-composers?

6:07Marcus NorrisI'm, I'm just a lifelong student, so it just goes from, like, composer to composer. Like, I kinda go through, like, phases or seasons…

6:14Jawad MirYeah

6:14Marcus Norris... Where I'm, like, obsessed with certain composers.

6:17Jawad MirSure.

6:17Marcus NorrisI mean, John Williams is, like, the god of all of it. You have to… we all have to bow at that altar. But

6:24Jawad MirYeah

6:24Marcus Norris... I'm really big on Bernard Herrmann. I think a lot of my style is influenced b-by him. You know, Morricone, Jerry Goldsmith

6:39Jawad MirThe usual suspects

6:40Marcus Norris... Those are some of my favorite. Yeah, the usual, you know.... Those are, like, I think, as far as, like, my film and TV work, I think those are the big inspirations. But I also try to bring in a lot of, like, you know, Motown and soul and these, and jazz and kinda these languages as well.

7:02Jawad MirSure.

7:02Marcus NorrisI think, I try to just, like, break them all down to, like, their core elements and then fuse them into something new. Like, what would it sound like if Bernard Herrmann grew up on Motown, you know? What does that, what does that sound like? And then we'll just see what comes out.

7:19Jawad MirYeah. That's, that's what I liked about the music that I've heard so far in the series. But you said classical music is something that you really, you know, k-sort of, lean towards. I'm sure you've heard of Gustav Holst?

7:34Marcus NorrisOh yeah, Holst.

7:35Jawad MirYeah.

7:35Marcus NorrisFor sure, The Planets.

7:36Jawad MirYeah. Gus-Gustav, not Gustav. Gustav Holst, yeah. I mean, how… If you listen to The Planets and you listen to everybody else after that, you know, from John Williams to Hans Zimmer, there's just so much inspiration that comes from just that specific album. Do you, do you ever get, try to get n-n… could you get inspired by his work? I know it's, like, above John Williams.

7:59Marcus NorrisFor sure, for sure.

8:00Jawad MirYeah.

8:00Marcus NorrisNo, I think Holst,.. I mean, it's just, it's just a seminal piece for a reason, and all of those great composer… If it's good enough for John Williams, it's good enough for me, you know?

8:10Jawad MirYeah. Wonderful, man. How did you get on board on this project? Let's hear that.

8:16Marcus NorrisYeah, so I had scored a film for director-writer Boaz Yakin. We had collaborated on a film. And he was working on this as, like, a writer-producer, I think, s-kind of, kinda helping in a lot of capacities, as Boaz tends to do. And Boaz and I just hit it off on his film. It's called Once Again for the Very First Time, and it had a lot of music. It's like an hour of music, so we were like... And it's, like, a experimental dance film and I, and I wrote some original songs for it, so it's, like, meaning we were kinda like partners on it. And, so we got really close and worked together really well. And then, and then Boaz was working on, Lady in the Lake, and then, yeah, they were, they were trying to crack, like, what the sound of this thing was, with Alma Har'el as the showrunner.

9:17Marcus NorrisAnd she was just trying to crack what the sound was, and she wasn't quite sure. And then eventually Boaz was like, "You need to meet Marcus," because there's, like, this specific nature of this score where it's, like, it's late '60s Black Baltimore, it's soul, but it's, it's not purely that. It's also needs to be dark and mystery and big and experimental and all of these things. And Boaz was like, "You should talk to Marcus." And, yeah, and then I ended up demoing for it on spec, and they loved the demos, and the demos ended up are even part of the score at this point.

10:02Jawad MirThat's amazing, man. That's really good. Is there, a particular... Without giving away anything about the series, right? I'm just gonna read the official premise just so the audience knows what it is, and then we can talk about it. So based on, Google, it says, "A 1960s Baltimore investigative journalist working on an unsolved murder clashes with a woman working on an advanced agenda of city's Black community. The protagonist ditches her d-doting husband and big pic-pic-pixelville home to pursue a career as a newspaper reporter." So that's the basic premise. So you have, you know, women and of different, stories. How did you bring their, like, in terms of their theme, their character to the music and vice versa?

10:53Marcus NorrisWell, because the characters are so, they come from such different backgrounds, Alma and I knew early on that we didn't want to just, like, do something as simple as, like, oh, if I'm around Black characters, let's play jazz, or if I'm around the Jewish characters, let's play Klezmer.

11:12Jawad MirYes

11:13Marcus Norris... So we knew that wasn't what we were gonna do at all. And so I tried to lean into, like, emotional themes. Like, these are, you know, these are universal. Like I thought about Maddie is, Natalie Portman's character, is like I thought about, like, certain musical elements representing, like, Maddie's ambition a-and this, like, desire to be this reporter. Or there was certain music that I kinda associated with Cleo is, Moses's character, and, like, with, like, Cleo's, like, love for her family and these type of elements. But yeah, what we did, what I did is I tried to break down the genres and everything to their individual elements, and rather than, like, putting them together like a quilt, I like to think that I broke them down to the threads and, like, weaved them into something new. An example would be the main title of the music.

12:15Marcus NorrisIt's like I was talking to somebody the other day at, 'cause they just had a premiere, I'm like, "What genre would you call this? Like, h… what genre is this at all?" You know what I mean? And I don't have an answer.

12:29Jawad MirI love how you described not a quilt, but threads then weaving into something, of its own, and I couldn't agree more. So here's... And I'm sure you would agree with this, but, when you're watching a film and if you start noticing the editing techniques or the camera angle or the music too much, then you are sucked out of that film or series, and that's not the whole point. But when you notice it and you appreciate it, but you're still pulled into it, that's when whoever's done that, you know, editing or cinematography or music has hit a home run, and that to me felt like with Lady in the Lake. And obviously that is not just testament to your music or the cinematographer's cinematography or the editor's editor… editing. It's the characters, right? The story that…

13:27Jawad Mir... Builds it together and you pull it in. So that's... A… and I'll be very honest, I didn't even think about the genre when I was listening to the opening title or even the music throughout, because it just felt very universal.

13:39Marcus NorrisThank you. Thank you. That means a lot, and I think that's exactly the goal is trying to, make something that serves the story. Alma and I talked about, like, for a lot of TV music, the modern TV music, it's, the music is not really noticeable. I like to say it's wallpaper, you know? And Alma and I knew for this, we wanted the music to be noticeable, and, to be like a character in this, but like you said, we didn't want it to be like we're not making music videos. We didn't want it to be…

14:20Marcus Norris... Like overpowering, so

14:21Jawad MirRight

14:22Marcus Norris... It's affirming to know that you feel like we found that balance.

14:25Jawad MirYeah, no, 100%. And you know, when you're creating music, so I love music score. I know when I listen to a good score, I know it's a good one in my world. I don't know anything about how to compose music, right? Like, I don't even know how to read musical notes or anything. I just know when I hear something really good. But just like when you're writing, there's a writer's block. I'm sure there is, you know, a block when you're composing music. In general, or in this series specifically, what were some of the blocks that you may have had, and what are your solutions to sort of come over them? I mean, they could be very simple, but just trying to get an idea from your standpoint.

15:07Marcus NorrisI, my personal philosophy, this is not for everybody, but for me, I don't believe in writer's block, for me.

15:15Jawad MirInteresting. Right.

15:15Marcus NorrisThat doesn't mean I didn't have a lot of, like, challenges with this one. A… and I guess just for me, I'm just, like, big on, like, doing the time. Like, I try to focus on output, not outcome. Like, so, or another quote I like is, like, if you take care of the days, it take care of the years, or you take care of the hours, then that take cares of the days.

15:38Marcus NorrisSo I just focus on, like, for me, my way of getting through any type of, like, resistance is, like, I just set a timer. And there's just something magical about it. Like, I, my phone's away from me, and I just, I set a timer on my computer, and I'm like, "Okay, today, no matter what, no matter how many meetings or emails I have to do, I'm gonna get at least three uninterrupted hours." They can be, like, broken into sections, like, you know, maybe half hour blocks or whatever, but, like, if it's half hour blocks, all right, I'm gonna get at least six half hour blocks where I'm not doing anything else. If I'm just sitting here fidgeting around for half an hour and nothing useful comes from it, that's okay, but you are gonna have to go through that anyway, so it's like, just get those time in. I don't know that's right for everybody's... I, as I get older, I'm learning about, like, everybody has different psychologies, and that's just good for my psychology. But I personally don't believe in writer's block for that reason.

16:38Marcus NorrisYeah, I mean, as far as, like, specific challenges, this was a very challenging, project if I could say. I mean, we were on it for, like, a year. There was a double strike in the middle. ... And so we couldn't finish until that was over, but we had to be working through it. I think the hard part for this is just figuring out what it was and then, and then running with it. Like, it took us a long time for those first couple episodes. There's so many different characters, and it's…

17:13Jawad MirBut…

17:13Marcus Norris... Such a tightrope. I'm sorry, I thought I thought I cut you off. And it's just a tightrope of, like, it's, you know, it's dark, but there's, like, comedic elements, but there's this area over here, but there's this, but it's also period piece, and it's also, like, in this jazzy club, but we don't want it to just be actual jazz, but it's, it's this, it's this, it's this. And then there's the relationship part. So it's just, it's, it's really complicated, and Alma knew, like... The word, Alma used starting out with this, she was like, "I want something iconic, and I want something that would only work on this show. I don't want where if you could take it another show and put that on here or if you could take this and put it somewhere else, it doesn't work." and so there were a lot of things that were, like, really good music that Alma said, she was like, "Any other director would be so happy to have this, and they would call me stupid, but I don't want this." Try…

18:12Marcus Norris... You know what I mean? So it was just figuring out, like, cracking the code and… And building that, like, language with Alma, was the biggest challenge, but, one that was, like, really rewarding once we finally figured it out.

18:30Jawad MirRight. One of the things that you mentioned, was setting a timer for yourself, right? I think that is so true, and I've been in... I personally, like, I work really well under pressure. Like, if there's a deadline, like, I know that I have to meet it, I'm, I'm going to swing all the way. And I remember this one specific example about 10 years ago. I was working on s… a small project for a client, and, it was just one of those weeks where things weren't going great, and I really felt like I need to sort of get couple of days of extension, right? Just to put my mind i… at ease and everything. But they needed to have it, and I'm like, "You know what? Let's just go." And I realized that if I had, and I learned from it, that if I had not, if I had not pushed myself to meet that deadline, then later on I probably would've done that with every single thing, right? Because you get into that habit. So pushing yourself and s… setting expectations for yourself in a way where it's sane really makes things happen for you, depending on who you are.

19:33Jawad MirAt least it did for me.

19:35Marcus NorrisI agree. A… and for me, w… like the aha moment was one day, like last year sometime, I was lamenting that like, about how when you work in, like, freelance and these creative fields, you're thinking about it all day long. Like, even when you're not working, so you're never really…

19:53Jawad MirYeah

19:53Marcus Norris... Resting, and… ... And I was lamenting about, like, not having a job where you clock in or clock out, and then one day it just hit me, and it was like, "Why don't you? Why don't you just clock in or clock out?" And so that's where my timer come from. So it's like, it's like I… I'm either... I'm on, oh, I'm clocked in. I'm on the clock, and I'm just doing my thing. I'm not answering texts. I'm not answering emails. I'm not, you know, scrolling on my phone. Anything. I'm, I'm clocked in, I'm doing my job as if, as if this was a nine-to-five and someone was hiring me to do it and I had to be l… professional, only doing my composing. But then I clock out, and I'm not thinking about it anymore, and it…

20:34Jawad MirYeah

20:34Marcus Norris... Just for my mental health, it's helped me. So I think about it like clocking in and clocking out. And that's, it's been really good for me. It doesn't mean I'm, like, every time I'm coming up with my best ideas. I… I'm still human.

20:48Jawad MirYeah.

20:48Marcus NorrisBut it's helpful for me.

20:51Jawad MirWell, it gives you structure, right? And when you get structure… ... In anything, in any discipline in life, then that just brings out the best in you, because you have a structure in place and you know what your expectations are. Do you listen to any scores while you're... When I say while you're composing, I don't mean, like, literally while you're composing, but in between. Like, a day if you're off, do you listen to get inspiration, or do you try to stay away from music completely so that it doesn't influence you in a way where you have come up with something that's already been done?

21:25Marcus NorrisI think I do sometimes. Like, it depends. And it depends on what stage I'm at. Like, I definitely don't... I won't, like, keep listening to something, because then sometimes the influences can be too obvious. But I'm, I'm... I think I'm, I'm at the point where I can... I know enough technical aspects of music to where I can, I can feel if I was too close to something. But no, I definitely do. I think we're all influenced by people, like, John Williams and Holst. I usually do early on. Like, more early in the process. Once you're kind of off and running, you wanna just keep leaning into the things, your own, the things that make you unique in all of these.

22:12Marcus NorrisBut sometimes early on, like really early in the process, I think it kind of helps to, like, establish a, common language with the director. Because you... I want to be, like, because, you know, they might say, "Happy," and for one person happy might mean J… James Brown.

22:31Jawad MirRight.

22:31Marcus NorrisAnd for some people it might, it might mean Stravinsky. Like, it just, you just no way to know. So I find, like, a lot of times working with directors, having, like, comps or references kind of help if it's your first time working together.

22:49Jawad MirYeah. No, it definitely does. And, you know, I'm, I wanna go back into your early part of your career. So obviously, you know, you've done, you went to s… you know, y… you got your doctorate and you were working on different projects, like shorts. What was that one moment... Was it, would you consider Honk for Jesus Save Your Soul the title that gave you a pivot towards where you are today? If not, what title would that be, and that story of how that all came to be?

23:22Marcus NorrisYeah. I would say so, for my film and TV aspects of my career. I would word it differently. I might not say pivot. Because I still work in, you know... I just did, me and my orchestra Southside Symphony just did, we recorded the strings for two songs on, like, Andra Day's album or, you know, I did the orchestrations for, I did some orchestrations for a Beyoncé concert in Dubai. Like, so I would say less of a pivot and just kind of like, "Oh, this is also a part of what I do now." And the same, the Southside Symphony musicians, the same ones who record on those projects are the same ones who perform the concerts, are the same ones who record the score for the TV stuff. So yeah, I would say less of a pivot and just also, like, added in this whole new rich chapter. But I definitely would credit, Adamma and Honk for Jesus for that. And how that happened is we met at UCLA. There was like a group message, and she was... Like a group, text or whatever, or a group me…

24:30Jawad MirAdministrator

24:30Marcus Norris... And she was..., and she was doing a, like a Kickstarter for a project that's really interesting to me for like a, you know. And I'm like, I introduced myself, and I'm like, "Hey, you know, we should, we should know each other. I love the way you're thinking about it." and I did... She was doing a short version of Honk For Jesus, soon after, and reached out to me about composing for it, and I did. And then they decided they didn't want any original music on there after I did it, so it just kind of fell through. And, but we stayed in touch, and then eventually, yeah, eventually when it came time for the feature, she reached back out about it and thought I'd be a good fit for it. And I definitely think that opened the door for me to do, more films and now television.

25:23Jawad MirAmazing. You mentioned you're, you're doing some capacity of work, or you have in some form, for Beyoncé's show in Dubai. Can you elaborate on that?

25:34Marcus NorrisYeah. It was that last year? Yeah, 2023. She was doing her first live performance in five years. This was before the Renaissance tour. And she was doing a concert in Dubai, with an orchestra. And yeah, and I got asked to do some of those orchestrations. I work with her mom, Miss Tina. She has a theater, in North Hollywood called Waco Theater, and I've been working with them for some years, like writing music, for their plays, or I was the music director for, Miss Tina's big, most recent wearable art gala. It's this big celebrity gala she does. I was the music director for it, and Southside Symphony, performed. I conducted. Yeah, so then when this concert came up, Miss Tina was like, "Ah, I think we should call Marcus." You know? And, she called me and, she's like, "Hey, what do you got going on?"

26:35Marcus NorrisAnd I'm like, you know, I was super busy, but I lied and said I had nothing going on.

26:42Jawad MirSmart thing to do.

26:42Marcus Norris'Cause if Miss Tina calls you, yeah, you know, if she, if she asks you what you go… going on, you say, "Nothing." And, no, but it was, it was an amazing experience.

26:52Jawad MirSo, I'm not a concert person, so please forgive my ignorance.

26:56Marcus NorrisNo problem.

26:56Jawad MirWhen you worked, when you worked with her, was it on s… live on stage that you did, or behind the scenes?

27:02Marcus NorrisSo for the Beyoncé one, I, it was behind the scenes. So I wrote,.. Basically, you know, Beyoncé's shows are these huge elaborate things, and this one especially they had like an orchestra, and she was coming out of the ground or something. It's just crazy. Yeah, so my role was for a couple of the songs. I, wrote the music that the orchestras would play.

27:31Jawad MirAmazing, man. Well, it seems like you... I mean, I... It just, it just feels like that you are very well accomplished at a very young age. Good for you.

27:42Marcus NorrisThank you. Thank you. I'm, just warming up.

27:45Jawad MirI'm sure. No, I'm sure. No, that's great, and you're quite humble about it, which is also nice to see, so good for you.

27:52Marcus NorrisThank you

27:54Jawad Mir... What's... Have you seen the entire series, Lady in the Lake?

27:58Marcus NorrisI have. I haven't saw, like, the final cut. I waited…

28:02Jawad MirYeah

28:02Marcus Norris... A little bit. I just wanted to experience it like everyone else. But I've s… saw, I know where the story goes, and I've saw it a million times working on it, though.

28:13Jawad MirOf course. So when was the last time you saw the last cut, whatever shape or form that was in?

28:21Marcus NorrisThat had to be... It was July, so maybe like three or four months ago.

28:28Jawad MirOkay. So you'll have a fresh view at it with the audience. That's awesome.

28:32Marcus NorrisYeah. I'm excited about it.

28:34Jawad MirAre you planning to do any... Sorry, go on.

28:36Marcus NorrisOh, I just said I'm excited about it.

28:38Jawad MirOh, I'm sure you are, man. You should be. Are you planning to do any kind of like friends or family viewing or just kind of watching it…

28:46Marcus NorrisI'm actually debating on that. Like, I was thinking about doing it because the first two episodes come out Friday. So yeah, I'm, I'm thinking about trying... I'm thinking about doing it for like the musicians, like who played on it, you know, from Southside Symphony, just kind of like getting together a little group and just like, "Hey, everybody, let's, let's all watch this together. It's all of our first TV show."

29:10Jawad MirThat'd be really cool to do. That'd be really cool to do. Well, I'm excited about the rest of the episodes. I'll probably watch one or two a week and, you know, at le… unless it gets me even more hooked. We'll see. But…... But, again, really excited about this. I really like I said, your music, and now that I've met you, I really enjoy talking to you as a human being too, so that's really awesome to see that you're doing some great stuff.

29:38Marcus NorrisThank you. It's been so nice to meet you, and I hope you enjoy the show.

29:43Jawad MirI will. Anything exciting cooking up after this that you can talk about?

29:48Marcus NorrisMost recently, let's see, the film I did with Boaz, hopefully will be out this year for the public, I'm really excited about. I scored another film with a brilliant writer-director, Nikki Michaux, called Summer of Violence. That's also gonna come out. And I'm composing a piece for the Chicago Youth Symphony that I'm excited about that I got a deadline coming up soon for.

30:13Jawad MirWhat was the further film, the very first film that you said that's gonna come out this year? What's it, called?

30:18Marcus NorrisIt's, it's, by Boaz Yakin, and it's called Once Again for the Very First Time. It's this beautiful experimental, like dance film. But it is narrative. It's, it's just, it's really interesting. It's really unique, and it's honestly, unbiasedly really beautiful.

30:36Jawad MirYeah, I'm just looking at…

30:37Marcus Norris... Excited about it

30:37Jawad Mir... The post… poster of it on IMDb. And that, it already came out or it comes out later this year?

30:44Marcus NorrisIt did, it did, like, festivals and stuff.

30:46Jawad MirRight.

30:46Marcus NorrisBut it's not, like, available to the public yet.

30:49Jawad MirRight. Right. Awesome. That's good stuff. Any,.. I'm sure... Who w… w… who would you like to work with as a direct… as a, with a director? Like, maybe three directors that you would love to work with.

31:04Marcus NorrisMan. I wanna do more work with Adamma. That's, that's a given. I mean, one of, like, if I was just naming anybody, I think, a dream collaboration would be Ryan Coogler. He's just a big... He's, like, a big inspiration for me, like, even, like, in art and also outside of art. Like, when I was young, it was really inspiring to me to watch his interviews, because if you watch him talk, he doesn't code switch or anything. He just sounds like fr… like somebody from Oakland, and that was really empowering for me. It just m… let me know, like, oh, I can bring my whole self to these things. I can be unapologetically myself. So Ryan Coogler, and then I guess whoever I work with. I would s… I mean, I'm, I'm really op… I'm, I'm new to film and TV, so it's just, like, kinda anybody who's like-minded and thinks and likes the similar stuff I do.

32:05Marcus NorrisI also like Jeymes Samuel. I think he writes his own music, so I don't think he needs me. But I really liked, the film they did, The Harder They Fall, and I watched it, like, 10 times and, Jeymes Samuel, directed it, but then co-wrote it with Boaz Yakin. So when Boaz hit me up, I was like, "Oh my God, I've, I've watched, I've watched this film 10 times." so yeah, I would definitely love to work with Jeymes Samuel, with the asterisk that I don't think he needs me because he writes his own music.

32:42Jawad MirLastly, Marcus, how would you define music? What's, what's music to you or how, what's music, what should music be to anyone in the world?

32:55Marcus NorrisYou know, the academic in me, you know, goes to say it's organized noise. But I think my personal answer is it's, it's the emotion that you can't express with words, I think.

33:16Jawad MirAnd I agree with you. It's, it's really... Music is such a powerful tool that it has no language, no boundaries.

33:24Marcus NorrisI agree.

33:25Jawad MirYeah.

33:26Marcus NorrisI agree.

33:29Jawad MirAwesome. No, that's really well said, man. Good. I'm really glad to hear that. Listen, I would love to chat with you again, whenever you have something coming up, maybe for Once Again For The Very First Time, whenever the release date is, I'd love to chat with you again.

33:45Marcus NorrisI look forward to it.

33:47Jawad MirAwesome. Thank you so much for your time, Marcus. I truly appreciate it. And Lady In The Lake starts on Apple TV+ July 19th. Looking forward to it.

33:57Marcus NorrisEnjoy the rest of your day. Be well.

33:58Jawad MirYou too, man. Take care. Bye-bye.