'Predator' & 'Aliens', Creature FX Artist, John Rosengrant

0:00Jawad MirWhen I think of Predator, I think about that scene where he, where Kevin Peter, Kevin Peter Hall who was in the suit, he picks Arnold Schwarzenegger up and puts him against the, whatever, the tree or, and you can see…

0:12John RosengrantYeah, Kevin Hall was seven foot one.

0:16Jawad MirYeah.

0:17John RosengrantAnd I think Arnold's maybe six one. But you have, y… you really have him. He's a foot taller, but with that big head and, you know, the suit and the body. And Kevin, such a gentle soul. What a great man. But he was an awesome performer. He knew how to, you know, really work that suit. I'm sure you probably know this, but at the very end of the movie in the helicopter when they're taking off, Kevin Hall plays one of the helicopter pilots in there as himself.

0:54Jawad MirI did not know that. That I did not know.

0:56John RosengrantSo if you go back and you look, you can see. A… and that's Kevin. And I guess you wouldn't really know that unless…

1:04Jawad MirYeah

1:04John Rosengrant... You just know that.

1:13Jawad MirWell, good to have you again. Really excited to chat about one of my favorite films, Predator. Of course, Aliens, is up there, too, but Predator has a very special place for me, so really excited to chat about those two films.

1:28John RosengrantWell, cool. Yeah, they're…

1:29Jawad MirDid you see the…

1:30John Rosengrant... Great films.

1:30Jawad MirSorry. Sorry, go on.

1:31John RosengrantNo, I was gonna say, they're just great films. What an opportunity to be involved.

1:37Jawad Mir100%. Did you just see the new trailer for the upcoming Alien movie, the Romulus one?

1:42John RosengrantNo, I haven't seen it yet.

1:43Jawad MirThat looks interesting. It's probably... It looks better than a lot of other Alien films af… like, the first one, the Ridley Scott one, James Cameron one were the best ones, and then after that it's been sort of up and down. This looks pretty good, so we'll see how that is.

1:58John RosengrantYeah, I think, Legacy Effects worked on that one.

2:03Jawad MirOh, d… okay, did they? Yeah, it looks…

2:05John RosengrantYeah

2:05Jawad Mir... It looks very non-CGI, at least from the trailer.

2:10John RosengrantYeah.

2:10Jawad MirSo that would be really cool to see.

2:14John RosengrantWell… ... We'll have to check it out.

2:16Jawad MirYeah. Let's start with Predator. Just the genesis of how... I mean, I know you've been working with, you know, you were… Aliens came before Predator, so you had been working with, Stan Winston and the team and everybody. But just the, how you first heard about the project and getting involved in it, just the beginning of it would be great to hear that.

2:42John RosengrantWell, from what I recall, it came through Arnold Schwarzenegger because the original Predator, for whatever reason, it wasn't working for them, and they really didn't know what they were gonna do because they had a m… a movie and they thought, "Oh, are we gonna change this to Arnold and these, SEAL team-ish kinda guys into, like, Arnold versus the Sandinistas in the jungle?" Because they didn't really have a monster that was, with what they wanted. And so, because of our relationship with Arnold, I think he talked to Joel Silver, the producer, and said, "You should, you should talk to Stan. He can, he can make a monster for you." And, so that's sort of what happened. And they called, and they were sort of done filming, and they needed a monster.

3:46John RosengrantAnd there were some concepts that were drawn that came over, but the way it really started to happen was that Stan was on a plane going to Japan sitting next to James Cameron, and, Stan was sketching some designs for the Predator. And Jim said something like, "It'd be really cool if it had some mandibles." And so Stan started sketching in some mandibles, too, because there's the big reveal with the mask and…

4:21Jawad MirRight

4:21John Rosengrant... The Predator u… underneath. And so there was a, Stan did a bunch of drawings. When he got back to the shop, if I remember right, Steve Wang did some, did some concept art of, like, what the whole body might look like. I remember bringing in, a Rastafarian book because we were trying to figure out what to do with these dreadlocks, and I thought that could be cool if it had a bunch of those. So Stan started drawing it. He turned the dreadlocks into more of these tendril-type things. So it kinda had happened fast, too. If I remember right, we didn't have much time at all to do this. And, you know, hats off to Steve Wang and Matt Rose. They really took the bull by the horns and were going kinda nutty, you know, sculpting all of that.

5:29John RosengrantWe had just finished Monster Squad, or we were finishing it up, and Steve Wang had done, a really cool paint job on the Gill-Man. And so he was very keen to work out what the Predator would look like. And I mean, it was all hands on deck. I remember sculpting a pair of feet for it in, like, a day or two, and all of us jumping in on the body trying to get it done and into molds, 'cause we really had a very short, timeframe to get that one done. And we were in the middle of something else, and I don't remember what it was at the time, because I was working on whatever that other film was and…

6:20Jawad MirSure

6:21John Rosengrant... Kept getting pulled in to, you know, help out and get the Predator finished.

6:28Jawad MirRight.

6:29John RosengrantBut it was one of these, magic cinematic moments where everything kinda came together. And, I think the creature turned out magnificent, and it's… I think it lives up to the hype. I mean, once that mask comes off and you see its face, it's like, "Wow." Yeah, it's pretty cool.

6:52Jawad MirIt is, it is cool. And I do agree, it lives to the hype even to this day, and it hasn't aged one bit. You mentioned earlier that the filming had been done and they didn't have a monster. Is that correct?

7:04John RosengrantWell, they had a monster. I think Steve Johnston did something, for them. Sort of a dog-legged creature version. I, y… you know, I wasn't there, so I don't know…

7:18Jawad MirRight

7:18John Rosengrant... Exactly what happened. But they did not have a creature. They had the, Greenberg stuff, which was, you know, the camouflage look.

7:30Jawad MirRight.

7:31John RosengrantThat was established, and that was working for them. R Greenberg and Associates out of New York I think kinda came up with that camouflage look, which was utilized very well in the film. But they were... They didn't really have a creature that was working out for them. So they called Stan, you know, on Arnold's, recommendation.

8:02Jawad MirYou know, one thing about that film, well, I shouldn't say one thing, but many things. Like you said, everything fell into place, right? So you have Arnold Schwarzenegger, who was like the star at the time after Terminator 1. I think he had done Commando as well, if my memory serves me right.

8:16John RosengrantYes, he had. Yes.

8:18Jawad MirAnd you have someone that well-built, and to create a creature that's gonna go against him, and not only in the script, but it needs to look and feel like this guy, this alien monster can take him down, right?

8:33John RosengrantYeah

8:34Jawad Mir... And then, and then Ellen Sy… Silvestri's music, right? That really made the film to another level, I think. But yeah, I know when I think of Predator, I think about that scene where he, where Kevin Peter, Kevin Peter Hall, who was in the suit, he picks Arnold Schwarzenegger up and puts him against the, whatever, the tree or, and you can see the…

8:56John RosengrantYeah. Kevin Hall was 7'1".

9:00Jawad MirYeah.

9:00John RosengrantAnd I think Arnold's maybe 6'1". But you have, y… you really have him, he's a foot taller, but with that big head and, you know, the suit and the body. And Kevin, such a gentle soul. What a great man. But he was an awesome performer. He knew how to, you know, really work that suit. I'm sure you probably know this, but at the very end of the movie in the helicopter when they're taking off, Kevin Hall plays one of the helicopter pilots in there as himself.

9:37Jawad MirI did not know that. That I did not know.

9:39John RosengrantSo if you go back and you look, you can see. Yeah, and that's Kevin. And I guess you wouldn't really know that unless you just know that.

9:48Jawad MirYeah.

9:49John RosengrantBut Kevin, he really brought that creature to life. He was such a trooper with it. Whatever. I remember those contact lenses that we made for him. Those were those old really hard plastic ones that were terrible. But he would, he would tolerate it. We'd put them in, and they really helped make the look of it 'cause it's in that deep socket and it's his eyes. But with those contacts in there and those yellowy-purple things that are, it really booms out. Yeah, it was just one of those neat characters that just all came together and, you know, it's all hands on deck trying to get it done. And, it worked out. It really did.

10:42Jawad MirSpeaking of Kevin Peter Hall, the same year when Predator came out, also Harry and the Hendersons came out. I spoke to the director of that, like last year. And what a, what a transformation from a monster who's trying to kill versus a Bigfoot who's like friendly with the family. To be in those two different setups and to deliver that, you really require a ridiculous amount of talent, and he definitely had it.

11:10John RosengrantYeah. You have to be a good actor, you know?

11:12Jawad MirYeah.

11:12John RosengrantYou have to embrace that role, and you have to really sell it. I mean, you've got this hunting predator from another galaxy, and then you've got, like you say, the friendly Bigfoot. But that speaks to Kevin's talent.

11:28Jawad MirYeah.

11:28John RosengrantReally does.

11:30Jawad MirWhat was, what was your contribution in Predator?

11:34John RosengrantWell, mine was working on the body a little bit, you know, here and there, different parts, getting it finished in feet. And, helping get the contacts made. I mean, I, like I was saying, I was on another project at the time.

11:50Jawad MirRight.

11:50John RosengrantSo I was jumping in and out of that one. And then it went off to Mexico. I did not go down with Shane and Steve Wang and Matt Rose and those guys that went down. One of the guys in our shop, Brian Simpson, who be… later became a stunt man, we built a smaller suit for him… I think he was like 6'2". And, so there was a smaller Predator suit that was made that he wore, and then there was the, you know, the one that's featured the most with Kevin in it.

12:30John RosengrantYou know, I heard all the stories of those guys down on set. I mean, they were down in Palenque, Mexico, and so they were really in the jungle shooting this. And for the scene where it comes up out of the water…

12:45Jawad MirYeah

12:45John Rosengrant... They had to really get that foam rubber suit soaked. I mean, like absorbed all of the water, took it on so that it could sink down underneath. And, you know, once again, a testament to Kevin, you know, putting up with and doing all these things in that suit. And it made me really wanna be a suit performer, you know, watching him bring it to life. And I saw his diligence and how hard he worked and how rewarding I felt like it was. And so that inspired me to wanna do that.

13:32Jawad MirThat's awesome. What was the... Just as a viewer, what... I mean, there are so many incredible scenes in that film. What stands out or one or two scenes that stand out the most for you?

13:44John RosengrantWell, I think for me, I mean, the whole thing is great. I mean, I really like that scene with the character Billy Bear. You know, he's has a sense that this thing is coming and he's…

13:59Jawad MirYeah

13:59John Rosengrant... Going to stay there, and he's gonna fight it, and he can't see it. I think, I think all of that helps build the mystique in the story. I mean, 'cause let's face it, these things, that movie would've been terrible if it didn't have a really cool story. I mean, it had the potential to be terrible, let's put it that way. And…

14:23Jawad MirRight

14:24John Rosengrant... But it's all building to that reveal when he takes that mask off. And the way they set up the clever things and then Arnold starts putting the mud on himself so that his heat signature can't show. I mean, it's really, it's well thought out, and I think it really engages you as an audience. And it, you know, it sets it up these bunch of badass guys are getting taken out by this unseen alien. But the fact that they're such tough guys…

15:01Jawad MirYeah

15:01John Rosengrant... And these things are happening to them, it just builds up and makes the Predator that much more formidable. And I think there was an old thing I remember hearing is like, as an actor, you might not be in a film that much, but if everyone's talking about you and the dialogue is such that you're, you're in it even though you're not in it builds up your character. And I think that's what happened with The Predator. You had these tough guys getting picked off one by one. So you go, "oh, this thing is formidable." And then once it starts to reveal itself, you know, it has the glitch after the water and it's just really clever, engaging writing.

15:58Jawad MirYeah. And I think that the mystique, kinda like what, the shark in Jaws was, right? You don't see the shark until the last act. Here it was at three different levels. So you see... You don't know…

16:09John RosengrantYeah

16:09Jawad Mir... You just see the view, the heat signature first. You don't know what this…

16:14John RosengrantRight

16:14Jawad Mir... Is. Then you see the camouflage, then you see it coming outta water, then you see the helmet or the mask coming off. I mean, it was just so many levels of re… reveal that…

16:26John RosengrantKept…

16:26Jawad MirYou just…

16:26John RosengrantKept building

16:27Jawad Mir... Kept getting exci… Yeah. It, that's what's so amazing about it.

16:30John RosengrantAnd I don't know, honestly, I don't know if it was written that way or if it evolved, you know, out of mother of necesses… you know, the old…

16:43Jawad MirYeah

16:44John Rosengrant... Casablanca thing where they're writing the pages before they're doing it.

16:48Jawad MirRight.

16:48John RosengrantI think this movie was done, and they were trying to, you know, craft it together and figure out how to do it. And, I don't know, just is sort of magic how it all fell into place. Really good.

17:07Jawad MirYeah. It really is. And I, you know, since then there hasn't been a good Predator movie even though they tried, you know…

17:16John RosengrantNo

17:16Jawad Mir... Many times. Predator 2 was okay. Then, and I don't even know how many they made in between, which I... There was like Alien Versus Predator, and there was one by Shane Black. Was it Shane who did it I think

17:28John RosengrantYeah

17:28Jawad Mir... Eight, 10 years ago? That was absolutely bad and, you know, I didn't like it. But Prey was pretty good, which was like a prequel to, Predator.

17:37John RosengrantI honestly, I worked on Predator 2 and had a big role in that. And we…

17:43Jawad MirOh

17:43John Rosengrant... Still had, Kevin Peter Hall involved. So I mean, there was a lot of things that was good about that one, I thought.

17:54Jawad MirThere were. Yeah.

17:55John RosengrantThere were. The creature itself was, played with utmost respect and, you know, they tried to set it in an urban setting and wh… whatever. It's a sequel, so it's, it's trying to parlay everything that the first one was cool into the second one and continue on the series.

18:21Jawad MirThe second one was really cool and the things that I liked about it was because it came out in early '90s, and it was like '97 Los Angeles. It was, like, in total chaos, right? And I think with that idea, and then there were a lot of cool scenes in it, especially that scene where there was this guy, this, African American guy who's in the alleyway at night, and he's ready to fight…

18:47John RosengrantYeah

18:47Jawad Mir... And then you see his head you know…

18:50John RosengrantYeah

18:50Jawad Mir... Being taken away.

18:51John RosengrantRight

18:51Jawad Mir... I just felt, I think…

18:54John RosengrantI think we did that one in 1990.

18:57Jawad MirWas it in 1990? Okay.

18:58John RosengrantYeah.

18:59Jawad MirOkay.

18:59John RosengrantI'm pretty sure. 'Cause we did it before Terminator, 2, and we did it before Jurassic Park.

19:07Jawad MirRight. Right.

19:07John RosengrantAnd we were on the Fox lot shooting most of that movie. But yeah, I remember it was, like, a Jamaican, warlord, gang…

19:17Jawad MirIt was a Jamaican guy. Yeah

19:18John Rosengrant... Drug dealer. Yeah.

19:19Jawad MirYeah.

19:20John RosengrantYeah, and he gets his head taken off, and then we s… the skin bodies. And I mean, it's an interesting take on it. It is.

19:30Jawad MirI liked it for what it was, and I think the thing that probably didn't work for a lot of people, maybe me, it's not the films, Paul. It's just that reveal part wasn't there. Like, people already knew, you know…

19:42John RosengrantExactly

19:43Jawad Mir... What to ex… expect. I think…

19:45John RosengrantRight

19:45Jawad Mir... That was the thing that went against it, if anything.

19:48John RosengrantYeah. I mean, the first one was unique.

19:52Jawad MirYeah.

19:52John RosengrantAnd the second one was, you know, continuation of that. But the first one was just this magical combination…

20:00Jawad MirIt was

20:01John Rosengrant... Of it all falling into place. And if you weren't paying that close attention and see the spaceship coming in the very beginning, you kinda lose track

20:12Jawad MirRight

20:13John Rosengrant... Of the fact that there might even be an alien there. Because it really does sorta turn into Arnold versus the Sandinistas in the jungle for a while.

20:24Jawad MirYeah. Yeah, that's true. One thing I loved about Predator 2 that always sticks with me, it was the ending when one of the Predators give Danny Glover the gun, and it says…

20:35John RosengrantYes

20:35Jawad Mir... 17, it says 1713. It just, I still remember that says, like, you know, just…

20:39John RosengrantLike this has been going on forever.

20:41Jawad MirYeah.

20:41John RosengrantYeah, I liked that stuff, too, and the spaceship, where we all got to do some creative things, including in his, hunt… hunting, lodge, kind of, collecting the skulls and bones and things. One of the guys did an alien skeleton. And, yeah, I mean, it was right around the same time that the Dark Horse comics were coming out. So we were trying to incorporate some of that into…

21:13Jawad MirAh, okay

21:14John Rosengrant... Into the feel in the movie. But that was scripted about the pistol that he gets. Yeah.

21:22Jawad MirYeah, that was really neat. I really liked. And your role in Predator 2 was similar to in Predator 1?

21:27John RosengrantMore so. I mean, I was sculpting and involved from day one, painting. I mean, I was extremely involved in number two 'cause that was the show that we were doing in the shop at that time. I think we had just finished or we were finishing up, Edward Scissorhands. So we were over there on the Fox lot, and we found this guy who was working in the wood shop named Vincent, who was like 6'9". And, w… we said, "You know, he'd be a good one to get," because there was multiple Predators that were appealing, appearing in that movie. So we never found anybody like Kevin, you know. But yeah, Vin… Vin… Vincent was 6'9", so that's pretty…... Physically imposing. Yeah.

22:27Jawad MirYou know, you mention Edward Scissorhand, and I get goosebumps whenever you say the titles of the film, and we've talked about this before, that you worked on. It's like, it's crazy that, you know, we grew up with, not just me, so many of the people have grown up with these films. It's insane, and you've said this again many times before that, you know, you're very blessed and privileged to have worked on these films and with such great directors. I can just never get over it. I mean, your body of work is incredible. I just…

22:59John RosengrantNo, I…

23:00Jawad MirYeah

23:00John Rosengrant... When I'm thinking about that timeframe, you know, it was Edward Scissorhands, Predator 2. And before that, like you say, we had Aliens, we had the first Predator, and then we followed those up with, T2 and then Jurassic Park. It was, it was quite the time.

23:25Jawad MirYeah. It's crazy titles. Crazy titles, you know?

23:28John RosengrantYeah.

23:29Jawad MirI was actually, who's... I was watching something about Edward Scissorhand the other day. I don't know which actor it was. Nick, if I'm not mistaken, it possibly was Gary Oldman. He was... I could be wrong. I just saw one of those interview clips. They were offered Edward Scissorhand, and he sa… he said, read the script and was like, "What is this? Like, it doesn't make any sense." You know, and then he saw the trailer, and then he's like, "Oh, okay, I made a mistake." I think it was Gary Oldman, but I could be very wrong. It was some big actor…

24:05John RosengrantRight

24:05Jawad Mir... Who actually said that. But Gary Oldman…

24:07John RosengrantYou know…

24:07Jawad Mir... Was pretty young at that time

24:09John Rosengrant... There's just times when you whiff. It just, it is. You, sometimes you see it; sometimes you don't. I remember, telling Stan after reading Men in Black, I didn't, I didn't get that one. You know, and then after you see it's like, "Oh, I didn't get the tone of it." Didn't read the same way, at least to me, that it came across. But that's where the director's vision…

24:36Jawad MirVision

24:36John Rosengrant... You know, we had met Tim, and so when we read Edward Scissorhands, we sort of knew where that was going. And I'd seen Pee-Wee's Big Adventure, so I knew it was in… interesting sort of take and it would be very sort of abstract and dark and Frankenweenie-ish and, you know, all these things. And…

25:00Jawad MirYeah

25:01John Rosengrant... So, I did know what we were getting into with Edward Scissorhands. And I liked it because it was something really different, you know. It was very interesting. But then, y… you know, all his films are interesting. I really liked working on Big Fish with him. I think that was…

25:27Jawad MirOh, you know, one of my favorite films

25:29John Rosengrant... Kind of an unsung, un… unsung Tim Burton movie there.

25:36Jawad MirIt's probably one of his best pieces of work, and I have to re-watch it because it's been a long time. And I remember when it came out I absolutely loved it. I think my favorite of his is, which I'm not sure if you worked on, is with Edward, you know, with Johnny Depp.

25:48John RosengrantI did not.

25:49Jawad MirYeah.

25:49John RosengrantI did not work on Edward.

25:50Jawad MirYeah.

25:50John RosengrantBut that is great. Yeah.

25:52Jawad MirIt was a great film. It was a great film. You know, we're talking about Predator and I'm gonna jump onto Aliens, but through Predator because now there's this whole universe they tried to create Alien versus Predator.

26:05John RosengrantYeah.

26:05Jawad MirAnd I have never seen any one of them, and I have no desire to watch any one of them in any way either. But did you work on those, just out of curiosity?

26:15John RosengrantNo. I o… I've, I've worked on, Aliens, that was it. And then I worked on Predator 1 and Predator 2. And

26:26Jawad MirSo the original

26:26John Rosengrant... I never worked on any of the ones that followed it. I remember going to see, I don't know what its title was, Predator, I mean Aliens 3, and it's…

26:39Jawad MirOh, it's David Fincher who directed it

26:40John Rosengrant... Yeah. I mean, it was a well done movie, but I mean, we had just lived through trying to save Newt and Sigourney Weaver and, the Hicks character, Michael Biehn. And then two of them end up dead in the first five seconds of the next movie. And I, it kinda lost me at that point. You know, 'cause I worked really hard on Aliens, and we were there, we shot that movie over at Pinewood. I think we were there seven or eight months. And so we're, we was living and breathing that movie. And then for me to see those characters that were so important gone in like the first five minutes of the movie, I, y… you know, that's just me. But…

27:38Jawad MirYeah. I get it. I get it

27:39John Rosengrant... It was a, it was a good movie, but for me it was like, "Really? No."

27:46Jawad MirI was, I was reading about Alien 3. I mean, I don't know, again, you read these things, you don't know how much truth there is to it, that it was David Fincher's, I think one of his early works, like before Seven and everything.

27:57John RosengrantYeah.

27:57Jawad MirAnd there was a lot of studio mingling, which kinda made it the way it turned out to be, at least from what I read. But those things, I mean, the same thing happened with James Cameron, but look at Aliens, right? Like, I mean…

28:10Jawad Mir... Almost everybody re… revolted against him. Like I was watching that, Movies That Made Us doc episode.

28:16John RosengrantYeah.

28:17Jawad MirRight?

28:17John RosengrantYeah.

28:18Jawad MirAnd just... W… were you there physically on the set when those things happened?

28:23John RosengrantI was. I was there. We were there…

28:26Jawad MirHow did…

28:26John Rosengrant... For months on end. I mean, for me, my two biggest takeaways from Alien and Aliens is the first movie, to me, is a haunted house movie. You've got, you know, a creature and they're creeping around in the dark. And then Aliens is a war movie. But they…

28:48Jawad MirI agree

28:48John Rosengrant... Stay, both of them stay true to the, mythology or, I don't know if that's the right word. But the life cycle and the whole alien creation, you know, where it comes out of the egg and then ingests itself and then it bursts out and then turns into these other creatures. And I think James Cameron stuck closely to all of that, but he did his thing with it, you know? Let's make it bigger, let's make it crazier. That scene with that smart weapon that he, that they place in that one hallway…

29:34Jawad MirRight

29:34John Rosengrant... And once it runs out of ammo, that's another one of those things, like in Predator, that you realize, "Oh, we're up against a formidable adversary here." 'Cause now we've expended all this ammunition and the machine's still, bzz, still going. But there's no more…

29:54Jawad MirYeah

29:54John Rosengrant... Ammo for it, and you know they're still coming. So it's like, "oh." But it's those great pieces of writing that really sell these movies and make them what they are. Different…

30:11Jawad MirYeah

30:11John Rosengrant... I don't know why it just came to me, but a different footnote I have from working on Aliens was I didn't know who Paul Reiser was at the time.

30:24Jawad MirOkay.

30:25John RosengrantAnd, he plays Carter Burke in the movie. And for the longest time on set, I would see this guy in the sweater standing there, and he's really interested in everything that was going on. And in my head, I was so busy with everything that we were doing, but in my head I thought, "What's this guy from, a Fox executive or something? What's he doing here?" And then later, we finally had a scene where we're gonna kill Carter Burke with the alien, and it's like oh my God, that's Carter Burke. But I, it took me a while to put it together.

31:03Jawad MirThat's awesome.

31:03John Rosengrant'Cause, you know, you're just there. You're, you're working hard and you're living through this movie. And y… it's, I just remember long days. We built everything at Pinewood. We'd take it back, we'd clean off those suits. We'd go start over again. It seemed like, I don't know, 14-plus hours a day, you know, immersed into the world of aliens.

31:32Jawad MirThat's so cool.

31:33John RosengrantLots of, lots of fun stories, lots of, lots of, creative things. Yeah, I remember the whole thing between Jim and the first AD. And I liked them all. I got along with all of them, you know. But you could see those two just didn't, didn't get along. But I liked them all. You know? We had to, as Americans, sort of work our way into that whole British film culture. And when they started out, when we started out, we really had to prove ourselves to them. Because as far as they were concerned, they had done Alien. And who is this guy James Cameron and w… you know, why is he doing Aliens? It should be... That's the feeling I got…

32:33Jawad MirYeah

32:33John Rosengrant... Whether it was true or not. But it, beginning, it felt a little bit like us against them. But then it changed. You know, somewhere along the way, we just, we felt like we were part of that community, and they accepted us. So it went, it went well. But it was exciting for us to hear, you know, talking, going back to when I first heard about it. We had just got done with the screening of the first Terminator, and James Cameron gathered us all together afterwards. Stan, of course, but, it was Tom Woodruff, Shane, and myself, and Richard Landon, and said, you know, "How would you feel about going over to London and work on Aliens?" And for me, I was over the moon because that's the reason I got in this business was Alien.

33:41John RosengrantWas when I saw that movie, I thought, "Well, this is, this is fantastic. This is amazing." Because I'd grown up loving monsters, but most monster movies were B movies or lower.

33:57Jawad MirYeah.

33:59John RosengrantAnd y… you knew that when you were watching them, even as a kid. I mean, maybe as a little kid you didn't. But as you got to be older, you realized that these aren't considered the, you know, the top films. But I still loved them. But when I saw Alien, I felt like, oh, now we've got first-class acting. It almost feels like a documentary, it's so real.

34:28Jawad MirYeah.

34:28John RosengrantAnd, the actors are amazing. The direction, the story, the production design. It's like this is first class now. And it really inspired me at that point to, I gotta be part of this film renaissance it seemed like that was going on.

34:53Jawad MirWow. You know, James Cameron, it's a, his... I'm kind of going off tangent here, but his arc is so incredible too that how he used to drive a truck in Ontario, Canada. That's where I'm from, like, just, like, an hour away from here. And then the whole story about the Piranha, I think the movie, the sequel it was or something. And then he ended up making Terminator, Aliens, True Lies, Titanic, Avatar, Terminator 2. I mean, it's insane. And I think it goes back to what you were saying, the amount of commitment and time you have to give in. Every… everybody sees the final result, right? Like, you don't see the back end work.

35:36John RosengrantRight.

35:36Jawad MirJust in life in gen… in general too. It's just immense amount of work. Not just him, the entire team. You know, Stan, everybody else on your team. It's, it's a collaborative effort, and that's why we enjoy the movies that you guys are part of because it was truly a collaborative effort.

35:52John RosengrantIt was, in filmmaking, to have it work and to have it really, work well, it is a collaborative effort. It's a big team effort. And, you know, it's gotta have a great director at the helm, and it's gotta have a great story. If it's got a great director, great story, and then everyone else lives up to that billing. You know, you've got good actors and you've got good special effects. But all these things are there to help tell the story. So if the story is…

36:27Jawad MirYeah

36:27John Rosengrant... Is great and the vision behind it is great. Because Stan, y… you know… I guess in a way James Cameron was my film school, starting with The Terminator then going off on Aliens and then T2. I mean, that's sort of... And Stan Winston. Those two guys were my film school, the way I, on-the-job training really was. But I wouldn't have had it any other way.

37:04Jawad MirDid you ever get to work with Ridley?

37:07John RosengrantI sat in a meeting with Ridley, I think for Prometheus for, I don't know, four hours. So no, I never worked on a movie with him, but I did... W… was doing a pitch and, listening to him talk. He's, he's an interesting guy, there's no doubt.

37:31Jawad MirYeah.

37:31John RosengrantNo doubt.

37:32Jawad MirNo, the reason I asked was because you got into what you do because of the first Alien, which was directed by him. Oh, yeah.

37:39John RosengrantI would have loved to have worked with Ridley, but no, I did not. I didn't get to, get to do that.

37:47Jawad MirYeah. That's okay. I mean, you've had a very vast career.

37:51John RosengrantI have.

37:54Jawad MirYou…

37:54John RosengrantI can say I met him in, met him and talked with him in depth for hours, so good enough.

38:03Jawad MirI mean, I... Again, I, it's, it's so weird for me to say this, but I, when I think about the films that you worked on, I... You should have, like, a wall in your pla… at your place with all the posters in small sizes of all the films that you've worked on, just to kind of remind yourself that how incredible your life has been. I mean, I'm sure you do anyways, but just from a career standpoint.

38:27John RosengrantThat would be an interesting way of doing it, even if they were little…

38:31Jawad MirYeah

38:31John Rosengrant... You know.

38:32Jawad MirLike magnetic-ized sizes and on the wall.

38:35John RosengrantYeah.

38:35Jawad MirBut that's really cool. I'm, I'm really... I really enjoy talking to you, and thank you so much for your valuable time. Anything else you wanna add?

38:44John RosengrantOh, I mean, you could talk for hours on these things and tell the stories and everything. But I think the overall takeaway is I was really blessed to be involved with two... They're very v… very different projects, but they're so iconic, both Predator and Aliens, that,.. Yeah, this is, this was really neat to be a part of. I mean, Aliens I literally was living that one, because we were there at the studio all the time. It was fun. It was a, it was a lot of fun. You know, as young man, single guy at the time, living in London. Actually, outside of London. We were in Windsor. We rented a…

39:39Jawad MirRight

39:40John Rosengrant... An old house up on a place called St. Leonard's Hill. And, because the exchange rate was great at the time, that's why they went there. So the dollar versus the pound was really good. I don't know, it's just fun times. Very blessed when I think back on all this stuff.

40:07Jawad MirAmazing. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. I'll probably send you out another email in the next four or five months and see if you'll be up for another chat, another film review…

40:18John RosengrantSure

40:18Jawad Mir... Reference.

40:19John RosengrantYeah.

40:19Jawad MirWhat would you like to talk about if we do that?

40:22John RosengrantOh, gosh, a… anything. Whatever you wanna talk about, 'cause it jogs my memory and, makes me think about these things. It's, it's all fun. So whatever you and the fans wanna talk about, I'm, I'm game.

40:37Jawad MirAwesome. Thank you so much.

40:38John RosengrantAll right.

40:39Jawad MirThank you so much.

40:39John RosengrantThank you.

40:39Jawad MirTake care.

40:40John RosengrantThanks.

40:40Jawad MirBye-bye.