'Angry Young Men', Editor, Namrata Rao

0:00Namrata RaoI was telling Zoya, who owns... She's the creative producer, and it's her idea…

0:04Jawad MirYeah

0:05Namrata Rao... Actually. It's always her idea to make this. She came up with the name, too. Angry Young Men is her name. I mean, I was telling her that it's, it's been so graceful, and she was like, "What do you mean? I never meant to interfere." So, but initially I was very apprehensive. Also because, you know, they're all personalities in their own selves, like Salman, Zoya, Farhan. They're all personalities. So I was worried that, okay, they'll say, do this, do that. In fact, they gave me a lot of feedback, but it was always very constructive and craft related. It was never about, "Don't say this about our dad."

0:51Jawad MirThank you so much for joining and talking about your directed, miniseries, Angry Young Men.

0:58Namrata RaoThank you. Yeah, I mean, happy to chat.

1:03Jawad MirHow are you feeling in terms of, how it's being received?

1:09Namrata RaoIt's been interesting. I mean, it's been overwhelming. The... And, I didn't expect it to touch so many people, so I'm very happy about that. And, I mean, the criticisms are also very interesting, so.

1:26Jawad MirWh… what would those be? I would love to hear that because I haven't read anything, if you want to share.

1:32Namrata RaoYeah, I mean, that,.. I mean, there are things that people are saying, and then there are things that I have distilled out of it. So I can tell you that. I cannot quote unquote…

1:45Jawad MirSure

1:45Namrata Rao... What others are saying. But I think, maybe I would have used a little less music overall, like, in terms of craft. Maybe of, you know, I mean, there are some places where I feel it could have had a little more stay, it could have been slower, you know? So things like that, mostly craft related things. And I felt it, you know, the first time I had I saw it with a full house in a theater, and immediately I felt, "Oh my God, this should've been different. This should've been like this." So, but I guess that's okay.

2:30Jawad MirBut that's a curse of every artist, right? Every artist, goes through that, like it's never good enough. So I don't think that's necessarily criticism. That's just more so, you know, trying to be a perfectionist, which we all cannot be at the end, at the end of the day.

2:46Namrata RaoNot perfectionist, also. I think that's the only way to grow, too. Even when I was…

2:51Jawad MirYeah

2:51Namrata Rao... An editor, I mean, I always used to listen to all the criticism and absorb what made sense to me. Like, not take it too personally, thankfully. I think editing has taught me that, because everybody has an opinion, and it's fine. So, but it's a great teacher. I mean, you learn a lot. You learn a lot listening to people who have divergent views, so it's good.

3:20Jawad MirThat's great. It's interesting that your journey started as an editor, correct? And now you are sort of getting into the realm of directing. This was a directorial debut if I'm not mistaken.

3:34Namrata RaoYes.

3:36Jawad MirHow was that transition? Because an editor is more or less, not trying to generalize, is an introvert individual, right? You're just sort of…

3:45Namrata RaoI am. I am, too

3:47Jawad Mir... But being in that secluded, you know, isolated room, for the lack of better word, and editing, and then you're sort of thrown not only into this world of chatting with people, but chatting with people the likes of, you know, Javed Akhtar and Sadeem Khan. What was that transition like and how long it took you to sort of adapt to that or?

4:12Namrata RaoI think it took me a month or two, maybe more, because, I mean, I've spent so much time in solitude or, you know, just with the director and the producer, and suddenly here I was on a set where everybody was looking at me for everything, right? So for me, that was the more challenging part than talking to these people.

4:37Namrata RaoIt was more about how do I manage the people who are my crew, people who are looking at me for every instruction or, you know, things roll here because I say they roll here. So that took me a little while. I think just the sheer amount of talking is more, and it's so externalized, so that also. But in a couple of months, I think we had some, you know, initial, I had difficulty communicating and all that. But I think with time it kind of sorted itself. Like, I think I, because I was so internalized, I wouldn't say everything, say, to my cinematographer, you know? And then I would be like, "Oh

6:06Jawad MirThat's, that's so good to hear because I've always wanted to be a director, and somehow I fell into the world of editing. And then I got into directing…

6:17Namrata RaoEditing, yeah

6:18Jawad Mir... Yeah. So I mean, I always wanted to do narrative features, direct narrative features. Somehow I fell into the world of not only directing documentaries but also editing documentaries. But before that, I was editing a lot, but just getting into that transition of directing, it's a completely different ballgame. And I'd never... You know, when you're on the set, like I was talking about ear… earlier, the solitude, you know, in your own world versus on a set, I did not think that it was going to be easy, but it sort of became easy over time before I even realized it. Now, you know how you were saying two months, I can't recall that. Maybe it was like a year, but I just don't remember that time. But I understand that constructing the story, it helps a lot when you know in your head how it's gonna weave together, right?

7:12Namrata RaoYeah, I think so. And like in a documentary, of course, in a narrative feature, you know where it's going. But in a documentary, especially like this one, I didn't know where it's going. I had a very vague idea. I had a very vague chronology of this is what happened in their lives, and these were the people who were a part of it. But I did not know exactly what it is going to be. I just knew that I want to keep a human lens on them. That was something I was very clear about right from the beginning. Other than that, the story evolved.

7:59Namrata RaoLike, that it, we are going to go into their pasts up to this point or come back and then come to the present and then, you know, what they did, what they feel about this, that. I mean, so the story evolved, but the lens was what I knew, I mean, will be this.

8:21Jawad MirYeah.

8:21Namrata RaoAnd it was very interesting because it kind of found itself, you know, very providentially, too, because every time I would think, "Okay, I want something that will fill up this story here," I eventually got it. So it was really like the universe supported me in the making of this. Because we were shooting in the middle of the pandemic, it was so tough because our protagonists were old. It was inconvenient. We were all in masks. There were so many restrictions. You know, at that point I felt, how is this even going to work? Yeah. But it did.

8:59Jawad MirYeah.

9:00Namrata RaoIt…

9:02Jawad MirI say this to almost everybody I chat... I shouldn't say everybody, but a lot of people I chat on this podcast, and I was speaking to Geeta as well, your editor.

9:10Namrata RaoYeah.

9:11Jawad MirAnd you know, the thing with documentaries is, at least for me… ... The stories that I sort of tell, for now at least, that may change, is, you know, you're following a protagonist in the, in a documentary and you know what the beginning is. You know what you would like the end to be potentially, but you don't know anything else in the middle, and that feeling excites the hell out of me and scares the crap out of me at the same time, right? And I think that's what challenges you as an individual, just figuring it out all the time, because it's also in production, also at, until the end of post-production, it always changes.

9:49Namrata RaoYeah. I mean, I…

9:51Jawad MirLet me tell... Sorry, go on, please.

9:54Namrata RaoI mean, it was a little different for me because, maybe because I had this chronology in my head, so I knew that, okay, this is what I'm going to follow roughly, but I didn't know how I'm going to end it. Also because I knew that once they split and they were doing their own thing, do I want to go into that, not go into that? Or, you know, how do I want to go about it? I always had this vague idea that I want to end it poetically. And when, in one of the later shoots with Javed saab, he read this... I mean, I had read this, book of his, Tattak, and he had…

10:37Namrata Rao... This prose in the beginning, which was written by Krishan Chander, and I just asked him to read it. And the moment he read it, I knew this is the end. I knew this is, this is how it's going to end. So it was a moment that happened on the shoot. Like, I really got goosebumps when he read it, and…

10:57Jawad MirI bet

10:57Namrata Rao... I'm so happy to know that so many people have connected to it the same way that I did. It's really beautiful.

11:05Jawad MirWell, it's always about going with your gut, right? And when you go with your gut, you're tapping into other people's psyche as well, your audience's, most of the time.

11:13Namrata RaoAbsolutely. Yes. Not really from the mind.

11:15Jawad MirYeah.

11:15Namrata RaoYou're reacting from your body.

11:17Jawad MirYeah.

11:17Namrata RaoAnd I knew somewhere also that it is a lot about aging. It's a lot about living a life, a big life, you know, doing things, having legacies, spawning children who go on to become successful. And it's a, it's not just about films. It's not just about that. It is about looking back, reflecting on, okay, what is this life that we lived? So that kind of... I mean, it's there for me in it. Because suddenly, you know, you're very successful, but you're still going to age.

11:59Jawad MirYeah.

11:59Namrata RaoAnd you're still going to have really, you know, problems with that. So that was very interesting for me. Because I met them when they were old, you know?

12:12Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

12:12Namrata RaoAnd that's the first thing that struck me, that, okay, these two cool dudes, but they're really old now, you know? So, but they... It was great I think because they were also in a space where they wanted to reflect and, you know, think back and not just regurgitate the same things that have been talked about over and over. And why did you split?

12:41Jawad MirAnd I'll tell you, so first of all, I mean, we… we're chatting now, I haven't really said anything about how I felt about the series. And I wanna thank you because I... The very first film that I remember watching with… where I paid attention to the credits, you know, the... I remember watching Mr. India when I was probably, I don't know, 11, 12, and, the word written by Salim-Javed came up, and then it said lyrics Javed Akhtar. So I thought Salim-Javed was one person, and Javed Akhtar was another person. And just watching all that, like, you know, Sholay, Deewar, and all the other films, Trishul, it was the way you did it, and your team did it really paid not only tribute to their films but who they are as individuals. You said, you know, for you, the way it closed was your favorite part.

13:44Jawad MirWhich w… for me was well, plus the cellphone footage where they get together. But the th… scene that really hit me so much, and I'm sure it hit a lot of people, is when he talks about, "Is this coffee and breakfast and bread coming for me? It's coming for somebody else maybe." You know, that really hit home. It was beautifully done. And that, it's a credit to you and your team because to evoke those emotions, you know, even with people who are very well established, is it's not easy because people don't feel comfortable talking about those kind of things.

14:19Namrata RaoYeah. One second, I'm just going to put off my WhatsApp. It's telling me.

14:25Jawad MirNo problem. No problem.

14:31Namrata RaoI mean, I think it's also a function of meeting them over and over, spending a lot of time, being able to gain their trust.

14:39Jawad MirYeah.

14:39Namrata RaoAnd I guess I'm also, like, it's also my personality, I like to talk about these things, you know? I like to talk about origin stories, where you come from. Even as a person, I mean, I like to know that about people. Why they are the way they are, who they think they are, you know? So these are things that interest me.

15:05Jawad MirAs an editor, now director, how difficult was it at all, if at any much so, is that not to involve... I mean, you were involved in the post-production because you're the director, but at the same time, finding that balance where you're not stepping on, you know, trying to sort of be the editor while you have an editor, or was that an easy transition for you?

15:30Namrata RaoIt was easier than I thought it would be. I was very involved in the edit. I was there every day. But, I was actually very happy that Geeta was there, and, I haven't heard your conversation with her. I mean, so I don't know what all she has told you, but it was very interesting for me to not actually be sitting on the table. It was really good because I had a bird's-eye view every single day, and I could just focus on the broader strokes and the story and, you know, okay, where do we go from here, those sort of things. So it was really good. I mean, and I think we had very good chemistry. I mean, even Geeta had reservations. I don't know if she told you about it, but she had reservations.

16:14Jawad MirShe did.

16:16Namrata RaoShe had, several reservations, that, you know, "You're an editor. Are you even going to let me work?" And, you know, "Are you going to click the mouse?" and all that. I was like... I w… I was... It was actually great discovery for me, and, also a big relief that I don't have to do it. It was very liberating. Because as a director, you are part of the editing process.

16:40Jawad MirYeah.

16:40Namrata RaoRight? And e… if you also have to do the construction and the carpentry of it, I think it's, it's very difficult. Then you lose... Anyway, you're very low on objectivity because you've done the research, you've gone and shot, you've spoken to these people. Now you know the footage in a certain way. I think it's best to detach that point, which was great to do with Geeta because she was equally invested. She was very diligent. She knew the material very well. So it was great. I didn't step on her toes. At least that's what I would like to think.

17:20Jawad MirIt's interesting you mention that, right? Like, I think, when you edit something too much, and this is not to take away from Geeta's job or anyone else's job, because she had assistants and all that, but when you're editor, and I'm sure you went through this too, that you are, you know, finessing every little itsy bitsy thing, left, right, center. But when you get into that director's chair, yes, you're involved in the pr… editing process, but you realize how amazing it is to sort of, like you said, bird-eye's view, right? And all the tedious stuff, again, it's not something that it's not important. That's the editing team's job.

17:57Namrata RaoOf course.

17:57Jawad MirRight? That's their job. And you realize, okay, my job is now this, and this is something I like more maybe, to a certain extent.

18:04Namrata RaoYeah. Absolutely. I think I like it way more. I mean, editing is my first love because it's, it's given me so much confidence in myself. It's, it's really, like, brought me so close to the…... Craft of filmmaking. And I love it because I do it all the time. Even when I'm having a conversation, I'm editing it, you know?

18:26Jawad MirYeah. I get it.

18:28Namrata RaoI'm editing it. And it's not in a disturbing way. Like, it's not disturbing or I'm not trying to edit out what the other person is saying, but it's also just like, okay, this is what is playing out. This is how the scene is playing out. So there is a detachment to it, which I really enjoy as an editor. So I think that will, that spirit will always be there. But, I think I like this. It's also a new challenge, right? It's something new to do, something new to discover, and I've edited for close to 16, 17 years now, so I think it's time to…

19:05Jawad MirMove on

19:05Namrata Rao... Build on it. Yeah.

19:07Jawad MirYeah. That's amazing. What was that moment, Namrata, if you can remember, that told you or that defined for you that, I wanna be an editor, or I wanna direct films? Whenever that was, 20 years ago, 15 years ago. Tell me that story.

19:26Namrata RaoActually, I trained to be a coder. That was, e… I mean, that's what I studied in college. We C++ and coding. And very soon I discovered I'm not good at it and it's not something I enjoy. I don't even like going to college, but I didn't know what else to do. I just had this very vague notion that I think I'm an artist, and only I knew it. Nobody else ever told me that or thought about it, and I came from a very, I come from a very academic family, so it was always expected that I will do this work, you know…

20:05Namrata Rao... You know, good job and live the good life. So, I quit it, much to the chagrin of my parents, and I started looking for what I want to do. So I did some odd jobs and I landed up in NDTV in Delhi. That's where I grew up, in Delhi. And, I really enjoyed my time there, and I thought, "What if I study this?" Like, what if I study how to make this, you know? And I started applying to film schools, got into one, but I still didn't know what stream should I choose, because there was directions, cinematography, editing, and sound. And I was like, okay, my parents hate this step that I'm taking, so maybe if I take editing they'll think that it's very close to computers, which I have done for graduation. So, you know, I can do a job or at least something connected to IT. I mean, it was really that naive. Or, so I took it up and, I don't know, I think again, it was really the universe's blessing and this providence. It was, because it changed my life. I just loved being in that room. So I started editing on this Steinbeck, and it was, like, just me and the Steinbeck and this small lamp.

21:29Namrata RaoI just loved it. I would spend so many hours there just sitting, doing think. You know, just thinking, what can I do like this? Can I do it like this? So I just spent a lot of man hours doing that. Even then, of course, it's only after I came to Bombay I realized the scope of editing. Like, what... In film school it's still limited. You know, you're working on materials that others have shot and which have already been passed on, like, from one batch to the other. But here, suddenly it was an open playing field. So it was great fun. I just thought, oh my God, it fits like a glove, you know? I love it. So that's how editing happened, by chance. And then within a few years I started realizing that, okay, you know, when I had that choice in film school, I actually really wanted to check direction, but the way things were at that time in my life, because my parents were so against this move.

22:36Namrata RaoI mean, who goes to film school? And who leaves a good education and goes to study film, and what will happen to you? You're already, like, 23 years old and all that. So I think that, and also, I didn't probably have an innate confidence then that I can be the top dog. You know, that I can be a director. I think I didn't have that. So I had to go through this journey to reach this point where I felt that, okay, now I can actually do what I really wanted to do, which was to direct.

23:11Jawad MirWhat gave you that confidence?

23:15Namrata RaoI think appreciation for my work and just an inner knowing, you know, that okay, I can tell stories well. And I have a, I have a good sense of characters, I have a good sense of story, I have a good sense of rhythm. So I knew that I can, and I mean, many a times while editing I felt that, okay, I would have done it this way. I would have done it this way.

23:45Jawad MirYeah.

23:45Namrata RaoWhich actually can start frustrating you beyond the point.

23:50Jawad Mir100%.

23:50Namrata RaoSo that's why I thought, I mean, it's also not fair if you're thinking like that a lot, then it's not fair to the job you're doing as an editor also. So that's why I thought it's better for me to say my own stories.

24:09Jawad MirWhile working on Angry Young Men, or after it finished, or both, what was one thing that you discovered about yourself?

24:24Namrata RaoI mean, there are quite a few things I would say that, people find it easy to talk to me, think because I'm a good listener. I knew that about myself, but it kind of, got validated while I was doing this. And also the fact that I'm not very attached to what I have shot. Like, as an editor, I obviously had no attachment because somebody else had shot it.

24:56Jawad MirYeah.

24:56Namrata RaoBut even as a director, I think I'm not very attached. So that is something which was very good, that it's very easy for me to leave things out, kill my darlings, and say that, okay, no, not... I mean, we have to do this in the interest of story, movement, progression. So yeah. So that was a good, interesting discovery, I would say.

25:22Jawad MirHave your parents or family seen Angry Young Men?

25:25Namrata RaoOh, yeah. And, my parents thought that it's, a lot of people are talking. They really enjoyed it. They really, even my brother, my sister-in-law, they loved it and they gave me full report of what they thought was working, was not working. And also they've been part of my journey, right? Like, it's been three and a half years for me. I started working on it December, 2020, and it's come out now in August, 2024. So it's been a long journey and it's been very, adventurous. I don't want to use a negative word, but so it… it adventurous because there were so many days I felt that, oh my God, how am I going to get this footage? How am I going to get this through? There was just too many things. There were so many ups and downs. It was a rollercoaster. It was really a rollercoaster. So they have been…

26:24Jawad MirI... Sorry, go on.

26:27Namrata RaoNo, that's what, so they've been a party to it, so I don't think they can watch it very objectively, removing that emotion that what all I have been through for making it.

26:38Jawad MirYeah. And working with, you know, various production companies, right? You have, I think it was SK Films, Excel, and Tiger Baby, I think it is. How was... W… were they just sort of there to facilitate, oh, obviously the financing and everything else, but how much involved were they in the creative process, if at all, trying to... Obviously it's their fathers, right? And detaching themselves from the story, what kind of liberty they gave you,?

27:14Namrata RaoThey didn't interfere with the edit at all. They didn't get into it. And they gave me a lot of space. They…

27:25Jawad MirThat's good.

27:27Namrata RaoYeah.

27:27Jawad MirWhich shows, which shows in the film.

27:29Namrata RaoYeah. They gave me a lot of space, and I feel very grateful for that because when I started I was very apprehensive that, you know, I'll be censored, but that didn't happen. But of course, I mean, you know, when you're speaking to a lot of people, you are of course limited by what they tell you and have to carve a story out of that. But otherwise, I think there was absolutely no censorship at all. In fact, I feel, I was telling Zoya, who owns, she's the creative producer and it's her idea…

28:12Jawad MirYeah

28:12Namrata Rao... It was always her idea to make this. She came up with the name, too. Angry Young Men is her name. I mean, I was telling her that it's, it's been so graceful and she was like, "What do you mean? I never meant to interfere." So, but initially I was very apprehensive. Also because, you know, they're all personalities in their own selves, like Salman, Zoya, Farhan, they're all personalities. So I was worried that, okay, they'll say, do this, do that. In fact, they gave me a lot of feedback, but it was always very constructive and craft related. It was never about, "Don't say this about our dad," or, "Don't say this."

28:53Jawad MirYeah.

28:53Namrata RaoAnd also you could see, like, their mom, Honey, who was in the series, and she speaks her mind. She's so candid.

29:01Jawad MirYeah. Yeah, I love that. I absolutely loved her c… her speaking on camera at all times. It was als… awesome.

29:08Namrata RaoYeah. So I think they are also like that. Even Javed Saab and Salim Saab, like, there are things that they don't like in it, but they were laughing about it. I guess that also comes with age and experience.

29:21Jawad MirAge. Yeah.

29:23Namrata RaoThey're like, "Eh."

29:26Jawad MirA… as you get older, like, I think as you hit 40, it starts, you start to realize it doesn't really matter what the world says, but you're still not there. It slowly progresses up until I think 60s and then you're like, "Who the hell cares?" Right? I mean, I've seen that with people around me, too, even talking, doing documentaries and talking to people, just you just get that sense that you don't, as you get older, you don't give two crap about, you know, anybody's opinion. And that's the way it should be. We should all live like that, but unfortunately we don't.

30:00Namrata RaoI think we are like that as kids. Then in the middle we try, we learn and get conditioned, and then we…

30:07Jawad MirYeah

30:07Namrata Rao... Spend all the time unlearning it, and it takes maybe till that time when we are 60 already, by the time…

30:15Jawad MirYeah

30:15Namrata Rao... We are unlearning it.

30:17Jawad MirYeah. No, that's, that's so true. I, you know, I, you were talking about Zoya. I spoke to Zoya last year for her film, The Archies, which was, which came on the Netflix, and I was telling her… So, you know, I watch a lot of Hollywood. I used to watch a lot of Indian cinema, and then after, I think, 2007, it just kind of went choo.

30:40Namrata RaoRight.

30:40Jawad MirLike, I just kind of didn't watch much, 'cause I wasn't... You know, as you get older, and I wasn't really connecting with those mainstream films. I do enjoy the independent cinema that comes out. But what I was telling Zoya was there's only a very handful of directors in India who I really enjoy. One being Vidhu Vinod Chopra.

31:00Namrata RaoYeah.

31:01Jawad MirI'm a huge fan of his, but especially his film Parinda. I'm, I'm sure you've seen it.

31:05Namrata RaoYes, many times.

31:07Jawad MirYeah, I love that film. And then, you know, Shekhar Kapur is one of them, and Zoya.

31:14Namrata RaoYeah.

31:15Jawad MirFarhan too, but Zoya's film, somehow they just get into that deep core and just…

31:24Namrata RaoAbsolutely

31:24Jawad Mir... Pulls you out like that, and she's amazing storyteller. All of her films, like from Gully Boy to Dil Dhadakne Do, like completely opposite, but not.

31:34Namrata RaoYeah.

31:35Jawad MirRight? But…

31:36Namrata RaoAbsolutely

31:36Jawad Mir... Yeah

31:36Namrata Rao... Love her to bits. I find her very inspiring. I really find her very inspiring.

31:42Jawad MirShe's amazing.

31:42Namrata RaoYeah.

31:43Jawad MirYeah, she's amazing.

31:43Namrata RaoI was so happy that she was my first producer, because she has that, you know, chutzpah. She has that devil may care kind of attitude, which i… which was a good learning for me. I could do with that a little bit more.

32:02Jawad MirYeah. What's, what's next for you, Namrata? Anything in the works that you can chat about?

32:08Namrata RaoI'm working on, narrative fiction right now. I have a couple of scripts that I'm pitching and hoping that it gets materialized. And I mean, do some fiction before going back to documentaries. I like both very much. I think they really feed each other, so…

32:28Jawad MirYeah

32:28Namrata Rao... Now it's time for fiction.

32:31Jawad MirI think, you know, I have this conversation with a lot of people, and I was talking about this to Geeta as well, is that it's easier to go from doc to, from, go from nonfiction to fiction as opposed to the other way around. It's a lot challenging from coming from fiction world into documentary because there's no story. Like, you just know the beginning and the end, and you're trying to find your way in there, right, as you're producing and directing it. So that should be okay for you.

32:58Namrata RaoYeah, and even as an editor, I started with documentaries. I did five documentaries before I edited Oye Lucky! Lucky!, which was my first feature film. I think you stopped watching films around that time, if it's 2008. Oye Lucky! Lucky!, then LSD Lovesex aur Dhoka, Ishqiya. I did Kahaani.

33:19Jawad MirIshqiya I've seen. You edited Ishqiya and Kahaani?

33:22Namrata RaoYeah.

33:22Jawad MirOkay, so those two films I know very well.

33:25Namrata RaoAnd Bajrangi Bhaijaan I did. So…

33:27Jawad MirOkay, that was good, too

33:29Namrata Rao... Yeah.

33:29Jawad MirSo you've done good stuff. That's amazing.

33:31Namrata RaoYeah.

33:32Jawad MirI... That's awesome. I mean, I... No, I'm not saying that… That came out wrong. That came out so wrong. I didn't mean that. I meant to say that I did not know that you did those. I'm sorry.

33:46Namrata RaoIt's fine, totally fine.

33:48Jawad MirYeah, this is not getting edited, so don't worry.

33:49Namrata RaoI was traveling, I was traveling in a bus once, and there was this lady next to me and she said that, "What do you do?" So I hate telling people that I

33:59Jawad MirI know. I know

34:00Namrata Rao... That I'm a film editor. They said, they're like, "What is that?" You know? And then you have to explain, so I just didn't want to have that conversation. I told her I'm an editor. So she said, "Oh, you must be getting this question all the time, that who's an editor and what does an editor do, a film editor? I'm not going to ask you that." So I said, "Oh, really?" I was suddenly very interested in her. And she said, "So what do you work for? Stardust? Filmfare? CineBlitz?" Like, she was naming magazines because I thought, she thought I'm a film editor means I work for a magazine.

34:33Jawad MirYeah, newsletter, yeah.

34:35Namrata RaoI was like, "Okay, here we go again." Yeah.

34:40Jawad MirYeah, it's, it's hard explaining people, like when they ask you, "What do you do?" I'm like, oh, it's the same feeling with me. Like, I'm like, how do I try to explain this so they get it? Right? And you, and you don't wanna sound too obnoxious and arrogant. You know, I'm like this person or... But at the same time, you don't wanna undersell yourself either, so you're just trying to find the happy balance.

35:02Namrata RaoSo what's your definition? How do you explain it?

35:06Jawad MirIt took me a while, but now I've just... I used to say filmmaker, but that's just a very generic term. Now I just say I'm just a producer-director. That's it. Just keep it simple, and if they ask you more, then you get into it. If they've, they don't, then you don't, you don't move on from it.

35:24Namrata RaoYeah. Producer-director, it's more descriptive than filmmaker.

35:28Jawad MirYeah.

35:28Namrata RaoFilmmaker sounds like…

35:29Jawad MirYeah

35:29Namrata Rao... You're still, like... I mean, people assume that, okay, you haven't really made a film, but you aspire to make one.

35:37Jawad MirYeah. And it ma… it does, you're right. I mean, it d… I realized that after, I think, few months of saying that, and people didn't pick up. They just kind of didn't even ask me any other questions. But when you say producer-director, I mean, majority of the people know what that is in a nutshell. But yeah. But that's, yeah, that's amazing. I'm, I'm so glad that, you know, you were behind this film because honestly, as... Now, I'm not... Aside from your skills of storytelling, I know that how, aside from that, the most challenging thing is getting people to be comfortable with you. Otherwise, they won't share anything with you, right? And that is a skill, an art that not everybody possesses. And kudos to you that everything that you see, I'm not taking away credit from anybody else, everybody did their amazing job, but just that level of comfortness that you created on the set With the individuals. And not only they're just talking to you, there's a whole bunch of other people around, like, so they're just sharing all these detail.

36:41Jawad MirIt's, it's a really amazing skill, and kudos to you that you were able to pull that off. I mean, it's hats off.

36:48Namrata RaoThank you. It…

36:52Jawad MirYeah, this is a thank you. So go on.

36:55Namrata RaoThat I had a great crew, and everybody was... I mean, very small crew.

37:01Jawad MirYeah.

37:01Namrata RaoMy editor, my assistant, and my executive producer. I mean, it was, like, while we were making it, and of course the people who were present on the set and everyone, my DOP. But it was, everybody was so invested, you know. It just happens sometimes. I think it happened this time.

37:22Jawad MirYeah. The…

37:23Namrata RaoEverything falls on…

37:24Jawad MirEverybody, everything falls into place at the right time.

37:27Namrata RaoYeah, I think.

37:29Jawad MirYeah. Yeah. That's the... And again, like, that goes to the leadership on the set, the captain of the ship, right? So that's what I always say. It's top-down approach, and it, everybody feels it. And if, again, it won't show up on the camera if things were going off the hook. It will be very obvious. So thank you so much for making it. I was looking forward to it as soon as I saw the trailer, and I binge-watched it literally, you know, two and a half, three hours. And it was amazing to kind of relive the childhood, but also finding out the story behind these two great individuals.

38:10Namrata RaoOkay. Thank you.

38:12Jawad MirAwesome.

38:12Namrata RaoThank you so much…

38:14Jawad MirAwesome

38:14Namrata Rao... For watching.

38:15Jawad MirNo, thank you for making it. I would love to chat with you one more time or a few more times in the future, about your other films. Maybe we can chat it whenever you have time. I think this was great, and then I can say that the films that you have done are amazing.

38:32Namrata RaoWell…

38:32Jawad MirYeah.

38:33Namrata RaoYeah.

38:33Jawad MirThat's gonna, that's gonna be the highlight of my conversation with you.

38:39Namrata RaoThat's fine. Absolutely fine. I love it.

38:42Jawad MirAwesome. Thank you so much, Namrata.

38:45Namrata RaoOkay. Thank you, Jamal.