Bold Moves: How This Couple Revolutionized Terminator Music

0:00Guest 1It's been really positive so far.

0:01Guest 2It's been pretty amazing. It's only been out for a few days, and the Spotify numbers are insane to us. Just people are constantly listening, and we're getting a lot of DMs and a lot of messages just being like... I think people are shocked at how bold it is. And we've gotten a lot of like, "Oh, you guys did not hold back."

0:23Guest 1No, we did not.

0:24Guest 2And, which is really cool to hear, 'cause that was kind of the goal. We were, we were trying to do something different while still being in the Terminator world, but it, we wanted it to be, you know, its own thing and have this bold brashness, but then also have some very emotional components. So we've been getting a lot of f… like, really positive feedback on both of those elements of the score, which is really cool.

0:54Jawad MirBut I know we're back together again. We're just gonna break down some of the tracks. I gave you some three, and if you want to explore more, be my guest. The floor is yours. You know, if you wanna start with whichever track you like, how it came to be and the breakdown of it.

1:11Guest 1Oh, yeah. I guess we could start with Run, maybe.

1:14Guest 2Yeah.

1:14Guest 1Run was, one of the, well, kind of part of one of the early demos that we had, we had written before we knew anything about the show. And it was a little bit more electronic, I'd say. And, you know, I… I think the demo was probably, like, two and a half minutes or something. It's like, okay, we have, like, five minutes to cover here. There's a lot of action. So, a lot changed. But it starts off with, this Terminator ambience, that we play a lot of times when you see the Terminator, and, these string samples that we reversed, distorted, kind of turned into, like, a little melody almost. And we just cut them up, and placed them, throughout the beginning to really just create a, like a perverted, madness, as the Terminator's just, like, just on the prowl…

2:18Guest 2Yeah

2:18Guest 1... And killing everybody. And then it finally kicks in once Iko gets engaged. And that is a little bit more, like, closer to the demo track that we had, you know, kind of started with. They had temped with that music, so we were like, "Okay, we know they like that. That's a good jumping-off point." But we went a lot, we ended up changing it to be a lot more rock heavy. A lot, a lot more guitars, distorted bass. And just, like, we wanted this scene to just feel kind of, like, fun and, like, we knew it was menacing and it was scary, but, like, we're just starting out. We're just introducing these characters. Like, it, i… is she gonna…

3:03Guest 2It needed to feel like... Well, Dylan told us it needs to feel like you're punching someone in the face.

3:07Guest 1Yeah.

3:08Guest 2Which I think we kind of did.

3:10Guest 1Yeah, I think we did that. I think there's a lot of metal hits that feel like they were certainly punching my ears in the face. I, feel like I did damage to my ears doing the scene. But, yeah, I don't know. We just, we just followed the action from there on out. And yeah.

3:29Guest 2There's one moment that I particularly like where we're going with she's running around on this rope ... In this circular space, and he's… ... Chasing after her. He's now clinged onto her. It looks like the rope's gonna drop. She gets her, I don't remember what they're calling it, but the tool that she stabs him in the eye with. And during that moment, it flies into the air.

3:53Guest 2And that's when we cut everything. And I think what we did was we EQ'd, all the way down so that you're not hearing any of the high end, and that's when you get... We brought in a different synth that sort of had this whirring sound while it flipped in the air. And then when she hold, she grabs it back in, everything comes back in a gradual, like, building, and we took off the EQ sweep. Which was fun.

4:17Guest 1Yeah, that was a fun one because it just, like, it just sat with the picture perfectly. Yeah, it was, a, it was a perfect, way to be able to use something that, you know, they temped with that we had originally created and then turned into more properly like this is, like, the sound of the Terminator. This is how we're gonna open the series. Yeah.

4:42Jawad MirYeah. And you know what that track reminded me of also, again, it's just the feel of it more than anything else. Terminator is known for its theme, right? Like, everybody knows its theme. But one track I really love in Terminator 2, when T-1000 does its first chase, when Schwarzenegger and John Connor and Sarah Connor go down the elevator, they sit in the car.

5:04Guest 1Yes.

5:04Jawad MirAnd he starts running, and there's this music, da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And I felt that those instruments and that, you know, that was, like, 30 years ago. It was…

5:13Guest 1Yeah

5:13Jawad Mir... Still timeless, right?

5:14Guest 1And...

5:15Guest 2Yeah.

5:15Jawad MirIt had, it had those, it had that feel of it. Like, it just kind of brought me back to that moment… ... When T-1000…

5:21Guest 1That's great

5:22Jawad Mir... Does that chase. I just thought I should mention it.

5:24Guest 2That's great. I love that.

5:24Guest 1No, that's so good to hear. That is the goal to still be Terminator.

5:30Jawad MirBe… before we go to the next track, what kind of reactions have you been getting from people? Like, whether it's on your social or anywhere else.

5:39Guest 2Yeah.

5:39Guest 1It's been really positive so far.

5:40Guest 2It's been pretty amazing. It's only been out for a few days, and the Spotify numbers are insane to us. Just people are constantly listening, and we're getting a lot of DMs and a lot of messages just being like... I think people are shocked at how bold it is. And we've gotten a lot of like, "Oh, you guys did not hold back."

6:02Guest 1No, we did not.

6:04Guest 2Which is really cool to hear, 'cause that was kind of the goal. We were, we were trying to do something different while still being in the Terminator world, but it, we wanted it to be, you know, its own thing and have this bold brashness, but then also have some very emotional components. So we've been getting a lot of f… like, really positive feedback on both of those elements of the score, which is really cool.

6:28Jawad MirDo you know the numbers of Spotify, up to the most recent numbers that you know of, if you want to share?

6:33Guest 1Right now. I think, like, right now, like, we have, we have access to, like, the real me… like, the metrics of, like, the whole release, and, like, so far…

6:41Jawad MirNice

6:41Guest 1... It's, it's looking like almost 100,000 streams…

6:44Jawad MirWow

6:44Guest 1... Just on the release, which is, like…

6:46Guest 2Yeah

6:46Guest 1... Way ex… we had, we had no expectations putting out a soundtrack. So…

6:50Guest 2Yeah

6:50Guest 1... It's a good, it's a good sign. So we're, we're pretty happy.

6:56Jawad MirI think people are surprised because I remember, and this is just two examples, obviously doesn't represent everybody, but just if it was, when after we spoke, we posted a, like a YouTube link that was going to premiere on August 29th, I think, like, a week before…

7:13Jawad Mir... On different Terminator Facebook groups. And a few of the comments that were like, "What the hell is this?" Like, "Where did this come from?" Right? Like… And then when people started watching and hearing it, like, I, even on our YouTube channel, somebody said the sound design of this is crazy. Like, I'll, I'll read it up for you. And the mu… and the music as well, of course. But people, yeah, like you said, are pleasantly surprised. And I mean, even for me, like, I, we talked about it before I listened to the music on its own, but just listening to it itself is just, it's, it's amazing. It's, yeah. I know I'm saying it too much, but it's just…

7:49Guest 1No

7:49Jawad Mir... It deserves every bit of allocate… you know, every bit of credit that it can get.

7:57Guest 2Thank you so much.

7:57Jawad MirI'm just gonna read the comment.

7:59Guest 2Yeah.

7:59Jawad MirThe a… yeah, this is one of the comments that was made. The audio design in Terminator Zero, especially the music, was pretty fantastic. Great stuff from these two. And then somebody asked the day before, "Will there be the theme be on the soundtrack album tomorrow?" So…... It's, it's, it's amazing. People are, you know, really embracing it. And

8:19Guest 1That's awesome.

8:20Guest 2Yeah

8:20Jawad Mir... Yeah, I'm probably... Yeah, moving on to the next track. I don't, don't remember what I sent you.

8:27Guest 1I don't know. What was it?

8:30Jawad MirHold on. It was, the chase, and is it Kokoro? Is that how you pronounce it?

8:35Guest 1Oh, yeah. Kokoro.

8:37Jawad MirYeah.

8:38Guest 1Yeah, that was another, you picked a, you picked some of the ones that started from the demos.

8:43Guest 2Yeah.

8:44Guest 1And that was, I think we…

8:45Jawad MirOh, really?

8:46Guest 1... I think we originally called that, like, Sarah, because we didn't…

8:50Guest 2We may have based it…

8:50Guest 1... We didn't know

8:51Guest 2... Based it on Sarah Connor as a…

8:53Jawad MirYeah

8:53Guest 2... As a concept.

8:54Guest 1Yeah.

8:55Guest 2But it started off with vocals.

8:58Guest 1Yeah. That was one you started.

8:59Guest 2That's one I started. I sang it first. And then we re-recorded my vocals with the London Contemporary Orchestra Choir. And we wanted it to sound... This was, I mean, yeah, this is before we even saw the scripts, which is absolutely wild to think about. But I just remember I wanted it to feel really feminine, but I also wanted it to feel mystical. And I think when we ended up getting into it and we realized that this would, this concept or this melody line would be a good fit for Kokoro, which is the AI that is going to battle Skynet.

9:40Guest 2She is technically, you know, gendered female-ish. And, even though she's a machine, and she chooses who she wants to be, and there's three of her, and it's these three different identities that then, you know, need to come together. And I think that this melody line really, helped serve that image. And then when we got the choir involved, we pieced it out into a bunch of different harmonies and turned it into this sort of like mystical,.. It's, there, it's, there's, like, a mystery element to it, but it's also very feminine, but it's also very strong, and you're not quite sure what's gonna happen. So that's where it started.

10:21Guest 1Yeah. And then I think once we learned more about the project, like, as we were getting into it, too, we had done a whole ambient take of, running, bells through

10:37Guest 2Okay

10:37Guest 1... Actually, have it here.

10:39Guest 2That one?

10:41Guest 1Oh, yeah. That one.

10:41Guest 2This meditation…

10:43Guest 1I forget what it's called. It's, like, a tongue bell. And we... Yeah, one of these things.

10:50Guest 2One of these.

10:50Jawad MirOh, cool.

10:52Guest 1Yeah. So, like…

10:52Guest 2Hopefully people seeing the video can see this.

10:54Guest 1Yeah.

10:54Guest 2One of these, like, meditation bells.

10:57Guest 1We just ran it through, a crystallizer and a bunch of other effects to create this crazy ambience that kind of felt organic but very much didn't. And we did a whole ambient track of that for... At one point, we were like, "Oh, maybe this could just be only ambience in, like, the Kokoro room." But then obviously we were like, "Okay, there's so much drama going on." We scored it proper. But we ended up taking a lot of that ambience and just fading it in and out of the Kokoro track when we felt we needed a little bit of scope when the camera angle would, like, go high. So that, I feel like that's, that's kinda how we brought, the machine element, to that cue.

11:43Jawad MirYou know what's, what's amazing is that I was, when I was listening to it, like, I was wondering... I, again, we talked about this before. I'm not a... I don't know anything about music in terms of instruments and just, you know, but I just know when I know I hear something good, I like it.

11:59Jawad MirI could feel that there were not just only instruments used, but something else that was used, and you just kind of showed me that right now. And it reminds me, you know AR Rahman, right?... Who did Slumdog Millionaire.

12:14Jawad MirThere's a track in there, O Sainya, and they use, he uses the train track sounds…

12:20Guest 2I know

12:21Jawad Mir... And synchronizes the music.

12:23Guest 1Oh, cool.

12:24Jawad MirHis music actually, if you're into listening to it, I can send you a track. When he was 17…

12:30Guest 1Oh, please

12:30Jawad Mir... He came... He produced the first album for a film, and he was, like, I think 16 or 17 or 18 maybe, and he used the keyboard to rele… to make some music that feels like it came out yesterday. It's, it's just so ama… and then again, that was another reminder for me that, you know, just hearing these fresh vibes and something that you haven't heard before, and that's what stands out about your score.

12:55Guest 1Oh, hell yeah. Thank you.

12:57Guest 2Thank you.

12:57Jawad MirHow about The Chase?

13:00Guest 2Yeah.

13:01Guest 1The Chase? Yeah, that was,.. I'm trying to think of, how we... I think that started by taking,.. So we had these, stick hit elements that was in,.. They were in Run. They were throughout the whole thing, and we took those same samples and…

13:20Guest 2Which by the way, we created those samples…

13:21Guest 1Yeah, it…

13:22Guest 2... By hitting drumsticks on any wood.

13:24Guest 1Anything.

13:25Guest 2Any wood that we could find in our room.

13:27Guest 1Yeah.

13:27Guest 2So, like, I feel like we took... Oh, it happened…

13:30Guest 1It might have been the desk. I don't know.

13:31Guest 2Well, there's a video that I took that's on... I think it's still on my Instagram, but it's of you recording yourself hitting on, like, a wooden, shoe…

13:39Guest 1The shoe rack

13:40Guest 2... Shoe rack. So it's just, like, not instruments. But we just kind of got scrappy with that. So that's how we created those samples, first of all.

13:46Guest 1Yes.

13:47Guest 2But then…

13:47Guest 1And that was a jumping off point, but that one we brought in a lot of new elements that we hadn't, scored with yet, I feel like. There was, a new synth that, was kind of like this droning pulse, that would just, like, be in the background. And, we found... God, I wish I remember the name of these plugins, but, like…

14:09Guest 2I know

14:09Guest 1... There's one s… weird synth that feels like a glitchy high up

14:15Guest 2It's part of the Roli Equator 2 stuff…

14:17Guest 1Right

14:17Guest 2... I believe.

14:18Guest 1And we just affected that, quite heavily.

14:21Guest 2Yeah.

14:22Guest 1And I don't know. That was just a fun one to do 'cause it was... I think sometimes, in this series the action has felt like there's a lot of, weight and drama behind it, and for some reason I feel like this one felt like we had a little bit more, liberty to have fun with it. 'cause it was just…

14:43Guest 1... You know, it's just the cops, you know? Like, I don't know. It's like, it's not Terminator anymore. It's like she can outrun the cop. Like, she can do this. So it's like it felt, it felt more fun. So we…

14:54Guest 2Yeah

14:54Guest 1... We kind of went a little wild with it, but…

14:57Guest 2And then we had to create a second one. We got... You know, you go away from them, that, those two characters, and then you come back to them and they're still in the chase.

15:04Guest 1They're still doing it.

15:04Guest 2So we had to create a whole other chase, which we call The Chase Part Two, and we wanted to vary it…

15:09Guest 1Yeah

15:09Guest 2... As well, so.

15:10Guest 1Yeah.

15:12Jawad MirThat's so sweet. What is your favorite tracks, each of you separately, and why?

15:16Guest 2Oh, God.

15:18Jawad MirI know it's a…

15:19Guest 1I think…

15:19Jawad Mir... It's a tough question to answer, but...

15:21Guest 1I think I'll say, I'll say Emergence. That's the opening of episode three. It's the first time we're, like, fully in, Terminator's brain. And we just really wanted it to feel like, oh, we're in a serial killer movie now. And

15:43Jawad MirNice

15:43Guest 1... It was just a really fun one to score 'cause, I don't know, we used a, an arpeggiated synth that just, like, felt like it was matching, like, the Terminator's, like, heartbeat if he had one. And we took all of the same, distorted, string samples that we used in, like, Run in the beginning of that, but we slowed them down by, like, I don't know, like, 500%.

16:09Guest 2Wow.

16:09Guest 1Just some… something insane so that you'd even hear, like, the digital glitches from slowing them down that much. And I don't know. It just felt like we were inside of his brain, so that was a really fun one to score.

16:22Guest 2Yeah. I think... Oh, God. I think for me my favorite is It Will Never Be the Same, which is when it starts with Malcolm going through the city on his way to the office. And… ... It's just this dark, depressing scene of this overpopulated city and people on their way to work and trying to function, when this man knows that the end of the world might be coming. And so it's from his perspective, but you're just watching the city, and it's raining, and there's a dog causes a car accident, and there's some robots walking around, and it just feels completely foreboding. And then we ended up taking that melody line and that became part of the Terminator theme. And it's just, it's part of Malcolm's theme. It's part of just, like, the entire series. We just keep hearkening back to that melody line.

17:18Guest 1And it was fun…

17:19Jawad MirAmazing

17:19Guest 1... Because we got to use that cue again, I think, at the end of episode five…

17:25Guest 2Oh, yeah

17:25Guest 1... When we see the city again, except

17:28Guest 2Except when? Where?

17:29Guest 1Five.

17:29Guest 2End of the World?

17:30Guest 1No. It... We actually use the same exact It Will Never Be the Same.

17:34Guest 2Oh.

17:34Guest 1When the…

17:35Guest 2Oh, yeah

17:35Guest 1... I don't know. Can we do spoilers on h… or, like

17:39Jawad MirYeah, go for it.

17:39Guest 1The... Yeah.

17:40Jawad MirYeah.

17:40Guest 1When the Enus are finally, like, in control, like…

17:44Guest 2Right

17:44Guest 1... And then we see the city from, again, from that same, like, way and it's, like, kind of a good juxtaposition of, like, oh, we're here now. Very different place. But that... Yeah. That cue really had legs throughout the whole series. I think another favorite of mine, was, Choose. It's…

18:08Jawad MirOkay

18:08Guest 1... It happens, wh… R… right as... Oh, God, another spoiler. I hope…

18:14Guest 2In episode eight.

18:15Guest 1Yes, it happens in episode eight.

18:17Guest 2I don't know if you should say that. It's a spoiler

18:18Guest 1... And it was this really pivotal moment. And we weren't really sure what we were gonna do with it yet, but when we first started the project, production IG wanted us to not only score, episode one, but was also just curious about other ideas we were coming up with, so that maybe they could temp with it. So we created…

18:42Guest 2Right

18:43Guest 1... A whole other stack of music that, some of which, you know, we use throughout the show. But we had this one cue that we thought was gonna be the Terminator theme. Or at one point, we thought it could be a contender. We didn't really know.

19:01Guest 1And it ended up being Choose, and we were like, "Wow, we never used that anywhere. That feels so sad that, like, that never had a place." And we just, like, put it in, and it was like, "Oh, whoa." It was a very exciting…

19:14Jawad MirIt works

19:14Guest 1... Moment, where it just, like, it had legs. You know, we obviously added a l… bunch of other stuff to it. We added, that, like, horn, raunchy synth sound that is the Terminator, all of these crazy string samples. And we also got to record the LCO for that cue.

19:35Guest 1Which, like, I remember when we were recording it live, it was, like, everybody... It was a very exciting moment…

19:40Guest 2Yeah

19:40Guest 1... 'cause it was like, whoa, this has elevated this cue to, like, a totally new level.

19:45Guest 2And the voices are doing these,.. They're just sustaining these notes that are turning into these really dissonant harmonies. And there was a point where I remember you looked at me, and you were like, "Is that right?"

19:56Guest 1That right.

19:57Guest 2And I was like, "It's right." It's supposed to sound like this.

19:59Guest 1It... And you were right.

20:00Guest 2And it sound, it just, it elevates it so much. And that's, what's interesting about that moment is it's the end of episode eight, or it's close to the end of episode eight. And I'm not gonna give too much away, but Kanta, the child, is in communication with the Terminator for the first time. They're actually having a conversation, and you're learning about a whole new side of things, and it's a really good... If there is a season two, this is a theme that, it's a, it's definitely a choice for us to bring in, Choose. It's, it was a choice for us to do this, cue at the very end, and bring in a whole new melody and a whole new cue in the last episode. I don't think that makes a whole lot of sense unless there is a season two, and we can continue to flesh this theme out throughout, because it is, like, where things are going if they can. We can use this theme more.

20:53Guest 1Yes, 100%.

20:54Guest 2And it's... Yeah, it was kind of an exciting little, like, last burst of…

20:59Guest 1I…

20:59Guest 2... Creativity.

21:00Guest 1Yeah.

21:00Jawad MirThat's, that's so cool. I think there will be season two. I have a very good feeling. Obviously, you guys know more. But based on how the response has been and everything, and I think if I'm not mistaken, Netflix has started its own little branch called Netflix Anime. I could be wrong.

21:18Guest 2Oh.

21:18Jawad MirI did read about it somewhere. But yeah, it would be interesting. And this is, you know, one of the things that must be so rewarding for you guys now, is that all that time when you almost wanted to kill each other has paid off.

21:32Guest 2Totally. We're like, "Oh, we forgot what it was like." I actually, I forget how we honestly created any of this. I do have this so, like, weird blackout.

21:41Guest 1Total blur.

21:42Guest 2Like, no idea how we came up with this stuff, and don't remember…

21:47Jawad MirYeah

21:48Guest 2... The fights we got into, but…... There will be more on the next season.

21:52Jawad MirI'm sure there will. Well, that's, that's, that's what brings out the best stuff, right? When you have disagreements…

21:56Guest 2Yeah

21:56Jawad Mir... And stuff.

21:57Guest 2Exactly.

21:57Guest 1Always.

21:58Jawad MirJust to... J… sorry, go on, Kevin.

22:00Guest 1No. My cat is

22:02Guest 2The cat that's jumping…

22:03Guest 1Yeah

22:03Guest 2... On the desk thing. I'm sorry.

22:05Guest 1She's, she's too much.

22:06Jawad MirJust to wrap things up, now that the series is out, and I'm just speaking very, you know, broadly. A lot of time what happens is, whether you're an actor or a director or a musician, whatever, if something is successful, you feel that, okay, you know you're gonna get something next that's gonna be bigger. And sometimes it doesn't happen for five, six, seven, eight months for some people, even though the film or the series was very successful. Do you guys have something that's been coming up since the release? I know it's been only, like, four or five days, but has there been any kind of excitement towards your work from people looking to hire you guys as composers for future series or films?

22:46Guest 1Well, l… luckily, we're already starting work on a horror movie, that we're excited about. But, a… all of the other stuff that we've been in the works with is probably, like…

23:00Jawad MirClassified

23:00Guest 1... At least a year away. And, yeah…

23:02Jawad MirOkay

23:02Guest 1... Kind of classified. But, not yet as far as, like, new…

23:08Guest 2Yeah

23:09Guest 1... Things being reached out to. I mean, we're obviously, hoping.

23:14Guest 2Yeah.

23:14Jawad MirYeah.

23:14Guest 2Certainly hoping that this can lead to some other... I think particularly we're really interested in working on more TV shows and video games.

23:22Guest 1Yeah.

23:22Guest 2I think that this kind of music for video games would be super cool. So we're, trying to get into that world.

23:30Jawad MirThat's awesome. I would love for you guys to do a live action sci-fi, 'cause I think it would fit you…

23:34Guest 2Yeah

23:35Jawad Mir... Really well.

23:35Guest 1That'd be really fun.

23:36Jawad MirWhat's the, are you able to talk about the horror film, or it's something you can't talk about?

23:41Guest 2Yeah.

23:43Guest 1Maybe a little, yeah. I think so.

23:45Guest 2Yeah, I think so. It's called Spite.

23:47Guest 1Yeah.

23:47Guest 2It's, a really cool indie horror, that is currently being made.

23:54Guest 1Yeah.

23:55Guest 2And it's, yeah, it's psychological thriller/horror, that's really dark, and it is definitely... It's a, you know, female directed and female s… you know, characters for the most part. So I really love that. Working with more women is super important to me. So yeah, we're excited about it. It's…

24:16Guest 1Yeah

24:16Guest 2... It's dark.

24:17Jawad MirIs it out this year?

24:19Guest 1Probably.

24:20Guest 2We…

24:20Guest 1Next year

24:20Guest 2... Yeah.

24:21Guest 1Probably next year.

24:21Guest 2Probably next year.

24:22Guest 1Yeah.

24:23Jawad MirOkay, awesome. Well…

24:24Guest 1Yeah

24:24Jawad Mir... That's, that's awesome. You know, listen, I wanna continue talking to you guys for future stuff. I mean, it, I know…

24:31Guest 1Oh, yeah

24:31Jawad Mir... Whatever you guys will work on is gonna be awesome. All the pressure to you, so I'm looking forward to a lot more of your work.

24:39Guest 2Thank you so much.

24:40Guest 1Awesome. Thank you so much.

24:40Guest 2And thanks for having us again.

24:41Guest 1Yeah.

24:41Guest 2This was really fun.

24:43Guest 1Total pleasure.

24:43Jawad MirNo, I love it. I love it. Anything you wanna add at the end?

24:48Guest 2I don't think so. Just, watch Terminator Zero.

24:50Guest 1Yeah. Watch it. Stream it.

24:52Guest 2And listen to the soundtrack.