'Into the Wild', Production Designer, Derek R. Hill

0:00Derek R. Hill'Cause we shot four different seasons. You know, not a normal…

0:03Jawad MirYeah

0:03Derek R. Hill... That a movie company does, okay? But Sean goes, "No, I have to shoot there at s… spring, summer, winter, fall." And so we did that and so we, you know, made it ma… got the bus all set and then we, how are we gonna get it in there? So then we, you know, the, highway railing, those guardrails…

0:25Jawad MirYeah

0:25Derek R. Hill... We turned them flat and we made a sled and we put the bus on a sled and we pulled it in with a bulldozer. And then we, you know, I said, "Well, no. It h… it has to be like this, not like that." And the guy from Alaska thought I was crazy.

0:49Jawad MirThank you so much again, Derek, for joining on Kingdom of Dreams…

0:52Derek R. HillYes

0:52Jawad Mir... Podcast. I spoke to you last time about Horizon: Chapter One and I think I may have sent you the link as well, like people are responding to it and yeah.

1:01Derek R. HillYeah, no, it's very good. I've sent it out to, some people. They really liked it.

1:06Jawad MirYeah, no, it's, it's great insight, you know, about all the stories and then you talked about, Into The Wild, which is astounding to me that it came out in 2007.

1:18Derek R. HillRight.

1:19Jawad MirAnd I, as far, as long as I can remember, I'm one of those people who love to be in the wild. Like I love nature, I love mountains, I love animals, you know, in the nature. Everything. And somehow I missed this incredibly amazing, poetic, beautiful film.

1:41Derek R. HillRight.

1:42Jawad MirAnd I'm so glad you told me about it because as soon as I started watching it, which is of course directed by Sean Penn, as soon as I started watching it was me in that frame from beginning to end.

1:54Derek R. HillOh, yeah. No, I think it t… it transcends everybody into an, a journey that everybo… almost everybody can relate to. And if you don't relate to it, then you have no imagination or no drive in life.

2:09Jawad MirRight. But what was so amazing about the film, I mean, aside from, you know, its simplicity and everything, that the journey this character goes on and meets all these people and how his idea of just living freely, which is not that difficult but we always ha… all of us have a hard time doing, so just letting go.

2:30Derek R. HillYeah.

2:30Jawad MirIt really inspires all these people around him. It's incredible.

2:34Derek R. HillThat's, exactly. No, that was the, that was the thing that I think, you know, 'cause I worked with Sean, when we did The Crossing Guard and Indian Runner and that stuff, and that was in the '80s and then, you know, he talked about this movie. It took him 10 years to get the rights to this movie and then one day he said, I was working on another project and he goes, "Hey, I g… I think I got the movie. I think I got that movie we talked about 10 years ago." And I said, "O… okay, what's the movie?" You know, "Into The Wild. Remember? The Krakauer book." And I go, "Yeah." And he goes, "So I think I think the deal's coming together." I said, "Okay, well, just give me a shout. I'm working on a project and I'll be glad to, you know, whenever you do it." Next day he called, he goes, "I'm coming down to LA. We'll meet tomorrow and, we'll talk about it. It's a go." That quick. And you know, I remember that day. We met, we met for dinner and we met with, Emile Hirsch that day.

3:39Derek R. HillAnd the first time I'd met him. And you know, I'll never forget, he was like a 168 pound young little y… young guy and it was all exciting and w… we talked about the journey and the story and how we were gonna try to achieve the project and everything and it was like, "Okay, well, I'm in. I'm in. Let's, let's, let's attempt this thing." And basically what happened is Sean had gotten family photos that were on Chris's camera and Chris's journey where he kept some, you know, not that organized, but he was, he had a collection of them. And then even the story in the bus where he highlighted e… every day, you know, what was happening and when he started feeling sick and, you know, too weak to move the day and that kind of stuff. So we had all those pieces and it was, Sean had done some preliminary stuff before where, you know, he just gets in the car and goes and drives. And that's the thing about Sean, he's, when he's all in, he's all in and it's like, "You know, we're gonna do this movie.

4:45Derek R. HillWe're all in this together." And you know, you hear that on every movie, but then when we're like, he's driving, I'm driving, we're switching out, we're going to all these places. So it's like, let's go find these, go find these images across the US, wherever it takes us. And I said, "Okay, well, that's, that's great." And then I remember, we had a producer aboard and he wasn't really, up to speed on what we were gonna do and Sean goes, "I need you to go to South Dakota. I need you to go, g… go find the wild mustangs and go find the wheat." And I said, "Oh, okay, I'll go, I'll go that. So, well, what are, what are my perimeters?" He goes, "July 3rd through the 9th we have to have wheat." And this is like in February. And I go, "3rd through the 9th of July." So then I went back to my roots in Texas and I talked to some old farmers and I go, "Listen, I really need to figure out where the wheat's gonna be ripe on July 3rd to the 9th."

5:55Derek R. HillAnd you go, you know, those old farmers go, "Well, you know, it starts over here," and you just kinda draw a circle. And down here in Texas it starts ripening and it ripens about 10 miles… A week. So he said, "Just start drawing your lines and put the weeks in there, and somewhere around that arc up there will be about where it's gonna be ripe when you need it." I went, "Okay." So, and then, you know, when Sean said, "If you get up to South Dakota, I need you to go see Wayne Westenburg." And I said, "Oh, the, he's the guy with the wheat field and stuff?" And I go, "Yeah." Sean goes, "Yeah, that's him. And, you know, just stay with him at his house." And I'm going, "Well, I've never met the guy." So then, you know, I go there and, you know, we, well, land and I go to this town called Carthage, South Dakota, and it's like 180 people. Now, this is not a, ob… obviously it's not a film community, 180 people.

6:58Derek R. HillSo w… that's where Wayne lived. So, you know, I stopped and he's j… he just like he was in the movie, okay? Just open, "Come on in. Yeah, no, I'll tell you about it. Hey, have you dr… ever driven a tractor?" "No, I don't believe so." "So let's, let's go out and I'll show you this stuff." So we went to the fields and found some great fields, and said, "You know, I think about this time it, this field should be ready." And I said, "Okay, well, that's great." And then I said, "Well, now I'm gonna go over the west side of the state and see if I can find some, the wild mustangs." Because the wild mustangs originally were down in Arizona, w… off the Colorado River, where he'd seen them. But I heard there were some up in western, South Dakota. So I went over there and sure enough, I found the mustangs and, you know, the lady that took me there, you know, it was magical. And of course, you know, they don't really stick around when they see people.

7:59Derek R. HillThey're running. So the, you know, they ran for miles and so we got in a Jeep and followed them and stuff and said... I said, "Well, how am I gonna deal with this, you know?" He said, "Well, you know, about a month before y'all are gonna shoot, you just come and you put this feed out there, and then you just put it and they come. N… don't, you're not there. You just put it there and then leave. Put it there and leave." So you'd, they train to come there every day. And I found this great sloping area where we could shoot with a long lens, where, you know, you look out into the open sky and you could see the dust and the stuff. So we got it all set up and then, you know, I scouted previously with one of my art directors, and I said, "Look, I'm gonna shoot the camera, long lens, and you're, you're gonna go up and you're just gonna kinda wander back towards the mustangs looking at me, not looking at the mustangs, and then they'll start moving a little bit." So, you know, I shot a bunch of those images and, you know, and that's how we kinda created this whole thing with Sean and Into The Wild, because I would always have someone with me and I would say, "Hey, walk down this road, this long, lonely road, and, you know, I'm gonna take these images."

9:16Derek R. HillAnd so w… I got images with, you know, the mustangs. I got images walking through the lava rock in Oregon. And, you know, it turned out spectacular. And it's like, Cape Disappointment, I remember, that's on the other side of, Astoria. Astoria was where the bridge was. He lived under the bridge, and then Cape Disappointment was on the other side, and you could only get to the, to the beach w… in low tide. So then, you know, you had to learn how to climb the mountain to get around if you got stuck in there. So, you know, we did those things and I remember shooting some images at the end of the day where the seagulls and all those come in and they just, th… they're just swarming, you know? And so you go, "Wow, that'd be spectacular if we could get that." W… we ended up getting that in the movie as well.

10:08Jawad MirYeah.

10:08Derek R. HillIn the same way we did in the wild animals in Alaska, you know, going down the road and there they were running in the background and we put Emile in it. But, the, we put tho… we put those images together and it was so funny because, you know, Sean knew exactly where we were going with the story and what he wanted out of it. And, you know, the, I remember when we went to South Dakota that time and, the new production staff came aboard, producer, and said, "Hey, w… what are you doing in South Dakota?" I said, "Well, I'm scouting where the w… wheat's gonna be ripe." "No. No, you gotta go down to Kansas or Nebraska where there's a film community." I said, "Okay, well, I'd, I'd, I found what it's supposed to be." And so I said, "Well, I was getting ready to fly, drive back across and catch my flight." And he goes, "No, you're not flying." So, we called Sean on the phone and I said, "Hey, Sean, you know, I got a little problem.

11:12Derek R. HillThey said I should scout Nebraska and Kansas." And he goes, "Did you scout where I told you?" I said, "Yeah." "Well, go get on the plane, buy the ticket. I'll reimburse you. It's just, we ca… I call the shots on this." But that was, that was a, the meaningful thing, and there were so many people that I've met on that journey that I'm still friends of today. It's almost like those people in that journey take people in and become lifelong friends on.

11:49Jawad MirYeah.

11:49Derek R. HillBut…

11:50Jawad MirNo, it's, it's, it's incredible you said that how it parallels the actual story of Into The Wild, like how you meet all these individuals on a journey. And sometimes you don't meet these people again. But in this film, Emile ends up meeting one of the characters again, right? The couple who…

12:06Jawad Mir... Who are going through, the marriage problems and everything. But… There's, you know, it's, it's insane that we have been conditioned, all of us, to this lifestyle that we have right now, right? You know, you have a house, you have a car, you have a mortgage, you have a nine to five, whatever. You know, you go to school, work, which is great. Nothing wrong with it. It's absolutely fantastic. But the idea of being in nature is just, you know, living in the dirt or surrounded by the mountains. I'll tell you a story about... So I've grown up in mountains back home and, you know, even when I came here, after like 10, 15 years, I started seeing different places in the western part of Canada. I'm not sure if you've ever been to the Rocky Mountains, between Calgary and Vancouver. Beautiful place, similar to Colorado. There is, I discovered this place, this is what nature does. I discovered this place, it's on the border of British Columbia and Alberta. It's a small village community of, like, 200, 300 people…

13:08Derek R. HillRight

13:08Jawad Mir... With a train track, and this place is called The Field.

13:12Derek R. HillThe Field.

13:12Jawad MirSo I just... The Field. And it's literally where the border of Alberta and British Columbia splits. So I w… And there's an information center. I went in the information center and I came out, and there's a bridge with, you know, water running underneath it. N… nothing deep, like, you know, like, not even an inch, and, like, a little creek. So I looked around and I'm like, "This is interesting." So I got off the bridge. There was no path. I just, you know, jumped off. I went and I sat on the rocks.

13:41Derek R. HillRight.

13:41Jawad MirAnd I looked ar… and I looked around, like, I turned around, and I felt like I was at home. And for five, six years straight, I did that once a year. I haven't done that since, you know, the last seven years.

13:54Derek R. HillYeah.

13:54Jawad MirAnd I kid you not, the ideas and the inspiration and the storytelling that came to my mind in those moments, it has never happened anywhere else. It's just the n…

14:04Derek R. HillIt just opened your mind up.

14:06Jawad MirYeah, just the nature how just, it just kinda clears everything up for you and you're just completely inspired and wowed b… at how insignificant that you are, and you look around you and you're like, "Wow."

14:16Derek R. HillYeah.

14:18Jawad MirI urge you to go there if you ever have a chance. It's beautiful.

14:20Derek R. HillNo, I wrote that down. I'm gonna check that out, because I remember back, early in the, in the sev… late '70s, when, I went snow skiing for the very first time in Snowmass, and I said… ... "I have to buy a place." I mean, you're up there with God and no one's controlling you. You're free.

14:42Jawad MirYeah.

14:42Derek R. HillAnd my mother thought I was crazy. And I bought a place the n… that next year, in '78, and I'd gone and I kept it for, like, 30 years. And it was a place to escape. And you don't look, you don't look at it that way until you just mention that. You don't think of it. And I think that's a thing that Into The Wild brought to me, and you look back and you think how meaningful the film is and how... You know, it's like you said, "Well, you got a perfect thing. I'm gonna buy you a car." I don't need a car.

15:18Jawad MirThat was, that was pretty great.

15:19Derek R. HillAnd it's like, I don't need anything. I just, I don't... You know, it's like, you're, "I'm going to Alaska." Alaska? "What are, what are you gonna do when you're in Alaska?" "I'm gonna be free." You know? And it was like, the, you know, we experienced some of those difficulties that he had when we were making the movie, you know? 'Cause we found the, Sean and I, and,.. Well, what happened, we, when we first went up there the very first time, it was like, probably almost zero degrees and we were in, you know, we were in, snowmobiles, and full-on garb of, you know, it's like, yeah, you look like the Michelin Man, you know? 'Cause it was so cold. And it was, like, 28 miles from the main road to the bus. And so, it was all our first time seeing it and Sean was, like, in the front pack and we're following behind and I don't know, there's probably four, five snowmobiles, and we get up, we finally get to it, and we stop about couple hundred feet away, and Sean goes, "I need a moment."

16:32Derek R. HillWe go, "No problem." You know? So, he goes in there and he's in there about 20 minutes by himself, and then he comes out and he said, "Now, y'all go on in there," and everything. He said, "You know, I've, I came with blessings from," his mother, "and I brought provisions for all the lost souls that find their way here, that this bus is a symbolism of freedom and helping the youth," and it was, it was magical. You know, we each spent our time in the bus and then, you know, when we said, "Well, we're not gonna film in this bus, you know? It's too sacred. So we're, Derek, you go find some, bus, another bus or whatever, and we'll make our own bus. We'll find a place that's very similar," you know? And, we went on snowmobiles all around. You know, the main thing was find somewhere that was near a river, and then a hill down below.

17:37Derek R. HillSo we found this place and we'd gone and we'd been out all day, and Sean was like, he was like a kid, you know? He's like, climbed this, climbed this mountain, hill. You know, it was 30 feet high or 25 feet high, and the snow's up to your crotch and you know, it's like three feet of snow, fresh snow, and he's, like, climbing up there and he's like, "Hey, come on up. Come on, hurry." When he gets up there and there's two moose right there at the top, he goes, "This is it. This is the place. They led me here, and we're gonna put the bus right here." And then it was like, "Okay, but where's right here?" You know, 'cause we d… we, you know, we're not, we think we know where we are, so then later we go back, we get in a helicopter. Sean and I fly overhead and find our tracks, and now we know exactly where it is and now we gotta figure out how to get there. So we get there and we're gonna set it up in the... 'Cause we shot four different seasons, you know, not a normal…

18:37Jawad MirYeah

18:37Derek R. Hill... Thing that a movie company does, okay? But Sean goes, "No, I have to shoot there at s… spring, summer, winter, fall." And so we did that, and so we, you know, made it, ma… got the bus all set, and then we, how are we gonna get it in there? So then we, you know, the, highway railing, those guardrails.

18:59Jawad MirYeah.

18:59Derek R. HillWe turned them flat and we made a sled, and we put the bus on a sled, and we pulled it in with a bulldozer. And then we, you know, I said, "Well, it, no. It ha… it has to be like this, not like that." And the guy from Alaska thought I was crazy. He goes, "Yeah, but I mean, look how close this is." I said, "It has to be right on these stakes. This is very important." And, you know, 'cause the way the sun is and the relation to the deal. And as you saw when we, when, we did the scene with the bear.

19:31Derek R. HillYou know, the bear goes down the hill. So everything was good and it was all great, and then we came back in the spring, and it's like, oh, boy. How are we gonna get to the bus? Couldn't cross the river. The same with Emile Hirsch. The same with Christopher McCandless, you know? He couldn't get across the Swift River, so we had to build a bridge. And then so we built the bridge so we could get the crew in and out, and then, you know, it was like one little thing after another and then, you know, we l… learned from the local greens guy there about the flowers that he ate. You know, it's like the flowers look exactly the same except the backside of the flower has veins on the poisonous ones and no veins on the other one. Well, if your vision is gone or you're, you're, you're, you're delirious and y… all you see is the front side of the thing, you're gonna eat that bush. You're gonna eat that flower 'cause you're starving. But, you know, we made it as real as possible.

20:35Derek R. HillI know that the family, the daughter was... Came to us when we were in Astoria and, watched this film, and it was pretty emotional, you know. And it was like we heard a little bit more of the family story from the daughter than what was in the book, and that, you know, the whole double life of the father was something that, you know, Christopher was like not, wasn't cool with, in a sense. So that's where part of it left him on his journey and, you know, we had a moment, Sean had a moment to think about. I said, "Well, y… you know, you gotta shoot, you have to shoot what you, what you believe is right. And w… and even if it's not in the book or if it's in the book or whatever." But she, the sister was there saying, you know, this is what kinda happened during that time. And so, and I think that, I think that originally Sean's meeting with them came up to a point where the family said, "Hey, we're gonna, we're gonna make this movie."

21:46Derek R. HillAnd, you know, the daughter said, "Well, as long as you don't mind the truth." You know? So I, the truth came out as we were making the movie a little bit more. And I remember we, I remember a moment that, you know, was very emotional when the father broke down towards the end in the middle of the street. Well, when we went to the premiere, his parents sat right in front of us, my wife and I.

22:14Derek R. HillAnd, you know, just watching their reaction was, like, unbelievable. 'Cause I think, I think you go into a, you, I think maybe his father, you know, didn't see anything wrong with the way that he grew up and the way he raised his family and stuff like that. And I don't know if the, I don't know if the movie, you know, translated into was that really like that or I didn't realize I was like that or... But the meaningful things, I remember the time when we were, we, you know, we would scout and w… you know, it wasn't a continual shooting. It was, we would, we would, I would scout. We would say, "Here's where we're gonna shoot." We'd go shoot two or three weeks, and then we would stop and wait a time and then, and it, so it was kind of that journey the whole time. And I was still kinda working another project at the time, so I'd go back and do a concept meeting, and then I'd go scout some more.

23:18Derek R. HillAnd then I'd go meet with Sean. So it was really funny because, you know, it was like, "Derek, you're getting the best side of it." And I said, "Well, I'm not really getting the best side of it, 'cause I'm not getting to see it, all the action going on." I remember one time we got to Alaska, and it was, it was during the summer. And, you know, we're in the same hotel. Emile stayed in the same hotel. Everybody s… kinda stayed together the whole time, that little group.

23:48Derek R. HillAnd so we go in, and we go in at, like, 6:00 in the morning. We're filming and shooting away and then it was like, wow, looking at, I'm in there and it's like, wow, it's already, like, 9:30, 10:00 at night. We're still shooting. And, you know, and somebody goes, "Hey, Derek, w… why don't you mention to Sean that we're all, we're on, like, n… 15 hours now." And I said, "Hey, Sean, do you think we've shot enough for the day?" "'Cause, it's like 15 hours or so." He goes, "It is? Well, I didn't even realize it. I mean, this, the magic hour's like a four-hour magic hour, you know?" And then it, I remember we're going back to the hotel and it's like, "Hey, why don't we stop in and have a cocktail?" I said, "It's like 11:30 at night." But you know, we just, we became a family on that show, and everybody that was involved has always been connected from that tissue from that show.

24:49Jawad MirYeah. Yeah, no, it, you could tell, and, you know, you talked about the four seasons, which I was so glad to see because obviously visually you see that, but you see the character's traits and, you know, their hair…... Their, the shave and just even like the look and feel, like, what, you know, he may have gone through in terms of all the stuff that he did, you know, physical climbing and falling and hunting and all that stuff. The, it, c… and the idea of shooting it in a documentary style and also with a longer lens, I'll be very honest with you, I'm not too crazy about longer lens sometimes, but in this film, it really worked.

25:32Derek R. HillYeah.

25:32Jawad MirIt just did because it had to show the environment, but it had to be personal, too, so you had to be right next to the characters.

25:39Derek R. HillYeah. Yeah, no, I remember, you know, we,.. Well, when, like I said, when I met, the reason why it always comes to my mind, Emile at 168 pounds, was, you know, we would, we would travel and we would, when we'd go to Alaska, we would be in a van and, you know, Emile would ha… have his c… clothes on, partial, you know, ready to go. And we would see a moment where Sean would say, "Jump out of the car. There's a perfect angle over there with the mountain, in the background." And then there's like, "Oh, there's, there's a ice thing floating on the river. Why don't you jump on that and get on that?" And then…

26:22Jawad MirOh, wow.

26:23Derek R. HillAnd then it would be like, you know, we would eat and then it'd be like, "Hey, listen now. Don't, don't talk about, 'Hey, Emile, you look good. You look, you look like you're losing weight. That's great.'" He said, "Don't talk like that." 'Cause after a while, Emile would not wanna eat with us anymore 'cause now he's eating special diets and he's losing weight. I mean, he was, I think about 114 when we did the scene with the bear, and it was…

26:53Jawad MirOh, wow

26:53Derek R. Hill... At that point that he couldn't, he couldn't even go to dinner with us. He couldn't even see us anymore, you know, because it was like, "Y'all are killing me 'cause I'm, I'm, like, starving and stuff." But, you know, we had a... When we went down to the Grand Canyon, you know, Sean and I and the DP and the, first AD and the location manager, we went about 140 miles on the Colorado River to find that perfect spot where we could do the river scenes, you know? And, so we were, we would go down and, you know, cli… we climbed that waterfall thing in the river that we ended up putting in the movie and then the stuff dripping down and the mints on along the river. We did all that, and I remember when we ended up shooting that scene, we had a professional kayaker that was, looked just like Emile.

27:54Derek R. HillAnd so it's like when you went into the river, went down in the canyon, you were down there for, like, three days. You're not, like, coming out. Everybody's camping down there, and you go to a pickup point at the end. And, so, you know, they got to this rapid stuff and it was like, hey, Sean said to Emile, "I think you, I think you can do this." He goes, "Yeah. Yeah, I think so. No, I'm not doing it." And then the professional kayaker did it, and he goes, "Look how good that was. I think that's good." And Sean goes, "No, Emile, it's, look, it's easy." And Emile goes, "Well, if it's so easy, Sean, why don't you just show me how?" So Emile, Sean did, and of course he flipped over, okay? And you know, the safety guys were all there, and then what, Emile ended up doing it and he made it, so that was a breaking point between those two, you know, because it was like one of those things, they're going like, "Wow, we're just, we're, we're doing the surf.

28:57Derek R. HillWe're doing the waves and stuff." And you know, as we, the way the show played out, we didn't really have all, everybody cast to begin with. Still had this, we still had this, you know, it was towards the end of the film when we were gonna shoot at Cape Disappointment when, Catherine Keener and the hippies were on the beach.

29:21Jawad MirRight.

29:21Derek R. HillAnd so we were trying to figure out who that's gonna be, you know? And so one day Sean goes, "You know, I don't know. I'm not really sure. Maybe Sean Durkin." I think that's his name.

29:37Jawad MirI don't know his name.

29:38Derek R. HillNo, but, no, but anyway, the, it was the guy, it was a, it was a, the guy that, the river guide.

29:46Jawad MirOh, okay. Okay.

29:47Derek R. HillOkay? Brian Durkin. That's it.

29:50Jawad MirBrian Durkin.

29:50Derek R. HillBrian Durkin. So it's like, "Brian Durkin?" "Yeah, he'd be perfect for the role," to play the other guy on the beach where he runs across the couple on the beach. And so, you know, he goes, "Yeah, I think I could do that." And so later on, you know, as time goes on, his scene's are weeks away, I said, "Hey, you di… you tell your wife that you're gonna play this scene?" "Yeah." "You didn't tell her that y'all are gonna have a sex scene, did you?" He goes, "We're gonna do what?" I said, "Yeah, didn't you read the script?" He said, "Well, no, Sean didn't tell me about that." I said, "Well, it'll come." And so then the day came and it was like Brian goes, "I don't know what to do." I said, "well, you just be Brian Dierker." "Well, what do you mean?" He goes, "That's why Sean picked you, just 'cause, just be yourself." You know, 'cause you got somebody that's never acted in a film before, and it's like you don't wanna mess up, you wanna be right. But as it turned out, he played great in the role.

30:55Derek R. HillBut that's the way Sean was, you know, picking people as we went along about the certain roles and everything. It was a, it was a meaningful film, you know. I think it's important that people see. I think it was one of those things in school that a lot of people, they wanted you to read the book, and some people read it and some people didn't. Almost like a Jonathan Livingston Seagull when I grew up, you know. It was like, "Read that book."

31:25Jawad MirYeah. But it's interesting that how more important this film is today because the year it came out, I think it was in September 20th, 2007, two months before the smartphone world ca… was introduced.

31:38Derek R. HillYeah.

31:39Jawad MirRight? Like, and now we are completely encapsulated by it, and how I feel it's way more important now to be lost in nature because I truly believe, whether it's in nature and traveling, but mostly in nature, you discover who you are when you get lost. And you have to get lost to be able to find out who the heck you are. It's so important.

31:59Derek R. HillNo, I think, I think that, I think that's, that's so true. And you know, you see people that go to Alaska. You know, a normal guy in the neighborhood goes, "Where, what'd you do? You moved to Alaska?" And if you don't know it, you just go, "What are you gonna do in Alaska?" "Well, I'm, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna live." You don't have any of the, any of the other stuff in the lower 48 states. You go, "No, I took 15,000 photos. Everywhere you turn, it's a picturesque shot." And you just go, "I've never seen that." You know, and then you go out and then you walk on the tundra, you know, where the ground's moving under your feet.

32:51Jawad MirYep.

32:51Derek R. HillAnd you, and you go, the reflections of, on the lake of the mountains and the 40 different colors in the reflection, you just go... People go, "Well, you augmented that photo." I said, "No, that's real." I mean, it's just the nature and the beauty, is beyond words there. You know?

33:13Jawad Mir100%. 100%. I, it, you mentioned 15,000 photos. I'm glad you mentioned it because I always wonder, and especially about films like these, like, you know, even Horizon, naturally most of the time they're like behind the scenes photo crew and, you know, a video crew just trying to shoot something in terms of making of to promote the film and it's really... Do you guys, you're, when I say you guys and other people, I mean this was when, smartphones weren't around, like f… filming all the, these little behind the scene moments that don't make it to like the official making of, is there a lot of stuff that you do?

33:51Derek R. HillWell, we did that on Horizon. That'll come out. I know that they're working on that. I don't think we did as well. You know, I've thought many times, you know, one of the problems is you get on a film and you do a film and you have all this stuff, and if you're not organized when you go through the film, then you've got…

34:13Derek R. Hill... 15,000 photos and you go like, "I'm not sure which are the best ones. I'm not sure where is that now." You know? Now this day and age, I make folders and they go right in it. And I think I should, I should almost make a book of the making of Into the Wild because you look back and all the people that helped put the pieces together. I remember we came from, Sean flew in from Oregon or somewhere and I picked him up in LA, and then he was there for the night and it was like, "Oh, boy. So I'm gonna pick you up in the morning at 7:00, so just remember, all right?" So, 'cause he'd been up there for a while, you know. And so he came in and, I picked him up, and he w… he was like, he was a little tired, so he slept and we drove down to Palm Springs area, and we went on the tram up there to the top, and then we went to Anza-Borrego, which is where the scene where w… Hal Holbrook, you know, in the story where he climbs the mountain and stuff like that, and I remember to this day, I'm shooting long lens again and, a… and, you know, the DP and, you know, stuff is there, and I got Sean running up this mountain just not feeling great.

35:36Derek R. HillI, "Keep going. Keep going," you know? G… that's not... And so then, you know, putting those pieces together and then coming back and Hal Holbrook shooting the same thing, it's like those moments of that…... Where, you know, it, the part with Hal Holbrook was really emotional and it was really believable because, you know, that time when he picks him up on the road and he just let him out here. "Son, what are you gonna do?" "I'm just gonna go north." You know? And it's, it's touching. It grabs you. It was unbelievable the power of that scene with Hal Holbrook in the film. You know, you j… just every one of those things just grabs at you. And being down in Anza Borrego and looking and seeing some of that, it's like moonscape or landscape that you've just never, ever seen before. That was the thing that with me and Sean and going to those things and see… seeing the places that he went, and the journey down into Mexico and it was,..

36:49Derek R. HillI got to live that part. And like you said, as you, as... There's films that you gravitate to and you always go back to. And of all the films that I've done, in the 70 films that I've worked on, these films are powerful to me. Even looking back, you know, it's like people sent me the, sent me the clips and the stuff, said, "Look, Derek, they're taking the bus away. Look what y'all did." I said, "W… what do you mean y'all did? I didn't, I didn't have anything to do with that." "Well, they're taking it away for too many people were going out there." And I said, "Well, was it a thing of cost of going to find someone? Or..." You know, they're taking something away that the youth or the pr… people needed, is the reason to escape. And, you know, there comes a point in time of is it safe to have there, or is it not safe to have the bus there?

37:53Derek R. HillYou know? So, it's, it's hard for me to say. I just know that it was meaningful to me, it was meaningful to Sean, it was meaningful to the mother that sent the provisions with Sean for the other kids that went there. And there's kids not just from the States going to, were going to that bus. People from all around the world were going there.

38:18Jawad MirWow. No, that's, that's, that's lovely. Thank you so much for sharing all that. I just wanna sort of close it on one little thing, and you kinda touched upon that. There were so many characters, meaningful characters in the film. To me, the most pivotal, besides obviously the protagonist, character was, played by, what's his name? Hal. The character's name was Ron. The older gentleman towards the end of the film.

38:46Derek R. HillYeah, Hal Holbrook.

38:47Jawad MirYeah. How his arc, even though he was in there, like, for a very short amount of time, but his arc of how re… you know, first he questions him. Again, you touched upon it. Like, what do you mean where you know, you're out here i… in the, living in the dirt? And then after going to his house, then working on leather with him, the leather objects and stuff, and then he comes back out and he looks at that view, and he realizes in his eyes, at least that's how I interpreted it, like…

39:17Derek R. HillYeah

39:18Jawad Mir... I wasted my entire life doing something when I could have just done this.

39:23Derek R. HillYes.

39:23Jawad MirAnd I thought that was…

39:24Derek R. HillWhen he realizes that kid brought him to…

39:27Jawad MirYeah

39:27Derek R. Hill... What he missed in life.

39:29Jawad MirYeah.

39:29Derek R. HillAnd then it w… that was the connection between the two, that he felt like that was my son, and my son is con… continuing my journey. Yeah, very powerful.

39:41Jawad MirNo, amazing. Well, you know, it's, it's lovely chatting with you, Derek. I mean, we already talked about Horizon Chapter 1. I can't wait for Chapter 2 to come out. Like you said last time, before December, hopefully. That's still the plan for the studio. And then eventually maybe Chapter 3 and 4, which I think you said is probably gonna go into production in spring, summer?

40:02Derek R. HillNext summer, yeah.

40:04Jawad MirYeah. No, can't wait for that. I'm really... I'm really pleased to be always talking to you about these amazing projects and, you know, looking forward to chatting with you about Chapter 2 and many m… other films. And you should publish that book, because people love getting that kind of stuff. And if you have some beautiful photography in there, I mean, that's all you need, with some quotes underneath and get a publisher, and you're good to go in the 2027, the 20 years of anniversary.

40:31Derek R. HillAll right. I'll think about that, I really will.

40:34Jawad MirPerfect. Thank you so much, Derek. Well, I wish you all the best. I hope you get to go to your project sometime this week, and we'll chat soon.

40:42Derek R. HillYeah. Okay, thank you very much.

40:44Jawad MirThank you, sir.

40:44Derek R. HillWe'll do it again. Okay.

40:46Jawad MirAbsolutely. Pleasure. Bye-bye.