'Sewing Sisters', Director, Lee Hyuk-rae

0:08Jawad MirSo thank you, Lee for joining and, it's, been… it was a privilege talking to you last time. I just had a pleasure of watching your film, the first film, Sewing Sisters, about an hour ago, and really enjoyed it. And go ahead, Emmanuel, and then I'll go from there.

0:45Guest 2Thank you.

0:47Jawad MirBefore I ask my first question, just a comment, about three specific scenes in the film. The opening scene where you see them, you know, from far away with the hill and them talking to each other, the scene by the, by… on the beach again, when they're walking together and having a conversation and the ending. I thought they were very well crafted and very well shot.

1:49Guest 2Thank you.

1:51Jawad MirHow did you come across this story?

2:15Lee Hyuk-raeactually so this project actually is, co-directed, and with… and so he worked with another director called Kim Jeong Young, and she was the one who actually, first started out on this project.

2:30Jawad MirAnd how did… Sorry, go on. Go on. Please go on.

2:34Guest 29 9,.

3:02Lee Hyuk-raeYeah. So the other director, Kim Jeong Young, was actually working on some oral history work, archiving various, histories of, reg… every… everyday people. And so she was working on a pro… project on the textile workers in the Seoul area from that time of, industrialization in Seoul, in Korea. And that's when she f… came upon the story of one of our characters, main characters, Lee Sook-hee, and also heard about the labor, school, and also the September 9th incident of 1977, which is one of the important events within the film. So that's how she got to know about this whole story, yeah.

3:58Lee Hyuk-raeYes. So she was working on it on her own in the beginning, but then later on she asked, Ms. Director Lee to join her on this project, and that's how… when sh… he was… he came on board as well. Yeah. So I think that's the end of his, yeah, response. Yeah.

4:16Jawad MirOkay, great. And, did you know about... I mean, obviously from a historical standpoint, being a South Korean, you would have probably come across the overall story. But when you discovered these individual stories, was it in any way surprising or overwhelming for you to grasp what you had just sort of witnessed and what you, what you learned?

5:03Guest 2. Working Class Jesus,.,.

6:01Lee Hyuk-raeYes. So, in terms of, working conditions and labor movements, the, a male, a young male worker called Chun Tae-il is actually, in Korea, a very famous figure. He w… awakened a lot of consciousness around this issue, so he's kind of the working class Jesus Christ, if you can say. And so…

6:22Lee Hyuk-rae... Everybody knows about his story, and that's what he knew previously. But usually the female, textile workers that have worked w… alongside him were always portrayed as very, maybe passive or kind of pitiful people, that didn't re… really receive much attention. However, when he actually met and heard the stories and met the actual characters, he realized how, very, how active they could be and how, charismatic they are in their own right. So that was like, I think, a very, surprising moment for the director, yes.

7:04Jawad MirI… you know, one thing that I've, a… as a documentary filmmaker myself, and also yourself, Emerald and Lee, one thing that I noticed in the film, and it wa… it was... You know, you can tell sometimes that certain things are staged in a film, especially in a documentary. Like in a narrative we all know it's all staged, so we don't really think about it. But I found the opening and that middle scene that I was telling you on the beach, specifically those two, obviously the ending too, but specifically those two, they just didn't feel in any way... They felt very organic. And even the conversations across from the table of the two ladies, and there was a camera on the top, you can see the boom, they just felt very organic. Did you guys put them together for the first time as you filmed it, or were they, were they familiar with each other after they had done the reunion?

8:05Jawad MirLike, did they still chat after the reunion, or was it the first time on the camera?

10:07Lee Hyuk-raeSo in general, the director is saying that, what he thought was important in this film is not act… so when we interview people, it's not, in this case it wasn't, the actual content of the interview that he was m… interested in. He was more interested in, how they retell their stories, what their facial expressions look like, what kind of gestures they have, the tone of their voice. This he thinks would be the most, s… powerful tool in telling, how they recall their stories and what that story actually had, what kind of significance it had in their lives. So when various scenes were staged or set, he never, they never told the characters in advance what was gonna happen that day. They just…

10:51Lee Hyuk-rae... Invited them to the set or to the location and, they were put in a certain situation, in a certain format. And so that's how I think he, that's what, how he, they were trying to kind of capture their really raw and organic, as you mentioned, responses to those situations.

11:11Jawad MirYeah, no, I thought it was, should I continue, or is there another part?

11:16Lee Hyuk-raeYes. Yeah.

11:17Jawad MirOkay. Yeah, no, I thought it was really well done. I, you know, especially the opening where it doesn't cut for a while. You are just so focused onto these three characters and what their, what their life has been like, and that you just, it just builds friendship right off the bat. Like, I felt like I knew them in the first minute and a half.

12:52Lee Hyuk-raeYes. So to tell a interesting backstory, the first scene, the opening scene that you mentioned was actually the first day that, Director Lee, I met these w… ladies for the first time. And, there wasn't, I didn't give much direction on what to do. I, but they just, were gathering at that place, and we had... We just told them that there are three, like, sewing machines set there. So, they saw the machines and they just, engaged in their conversation as you see in the film. And so everything happened very naturally and organically. And he was also very, I was also very surprised and, int… intrigued to see, how they get together and how they interact with each other.

13:41Jawad MirRight. Lee, you worked on Yellow Door recently, which was a solo director film, like you were the only director. On Sewing Sisters, you worked with, Kim. What... I have done something similar with two of my films.

13:59Jawad MirOne by myself and one, you know, two of us. What was that experience like from each other, directing a solo and directing with someone?

14:41Lee Hyuk-raeYeah. So, first of all, obviously since there's much more work when you do it on your own. So I had a partner to rely on when we were working together, but now so much other work I have to do, by myself. So that's one thing.

15:48Lee Hyuk-raeYes. So, in the previous project, Sewing Sisters, Director Kim, actually had contact with the cast more and more rapport. So she was the one who carried out usually the interviews on the set. So and opposed to that, Director Lee focused more on kind of how to visualize this scene, how to capture it on camera, and how to…

16:10Lee Hyuk-rae... Effectively, craft it into the storyline. So that was… he was, concerned more with the kind of cinematic side of things. However, when in this project, the new, the new project, he had to do everything. I had to do everything on my own. So it proved to be a very, heavy task to…

16:30Lee Hyuk-rae... Handle both elements of, directing. And so sometimes he felt, he says he feels even schizophrenic and like having to, do two, like maybe opposing tasks at the same time. So it was really a stressful, moment project for him. Yes.

16:48Jawad MirRight. The scene where, and forgive me, I'm not really good with names, but there is a scene when, the projector is on and there's a screen and there's photos, and there's two people sitting at an angle. How was that conceived? I mean, I thought it was a really great scene, like for any documentary that you're trying to do, if you're trying to go through archival stuff, like I think it's a really brilliant way of showcasing that. What was the, what was the birth of that like? How did that come up about?

18:56Lee Hyuk-raeSo whenever I watch documentaries in the past, I was, I would always come upon these scenes with archive footage, whether it be photos or videos. But they would usually only be, shown to the audience and the actual characters involved, wouldn't be able to see them. And so he always thought that to be a little strange. And so for these scenes, he wanted to, I wanted to, have the actual characters involved in this who are deeply invested in these events, be able to see the actual archive footage, and also at the same time wanted to capture, their, very, immediate reactions and responses to these, footages. And in that way, I hope that the audience would also be able to, understand deeply what these kind of, what this past, what kind of meaning this past has to these actual characters by staging it in this way.

20:46Lee Hyuk-raeYes. And the reason why, I set these scenes, i-i-in a form of like a dialogue between two people was because, as I mentioned before, I'm more interested, not in the actual content of the interview itself, but actually, the reaction, the way the people, depict these stories, their facial expressions and their reactions to it, I thought was more important. And when you have two people talk about a certain event, you not only can film the person who talks about it, but you can also film the reaction of that other person. And sometimes I feel that the truth lies more in the reaction of, the listening party. So that's why we've… I've tried to film it in as a, like a dialogue between two people.

21:33Jawad MirRight. That's, that's a great way of doing it, because reactions sometimes, if not most of the times, are the best ones based on what the s-the scene demands. Y-you can go ahead and translate that, and I'll ask my next question.

22:05Jawad MirDid you know anyone yourself, whether somebody from your family who lived through this, the September ninth, nineteen seventy-seven event? If so, if you're comfortable in sharing so.

22:21Lee Hyuk-rae9 9,?

22:46Guest 29 9.., 9 9.

23:43Lee Hyuk-raeSo as the film, my recent film, Yellow Door, is a very, is about a very small film club that most people probably would have overlooked if it wasn't for, director Bong Joon Ho being involved in it. Actually, the September ninth event of nineteen seventy-seven also is a very small event in the larger history of, Korea's labor movement. And so if it wasn't for maybe like, as we demarched her, Chun Tae-il getting involved, having a relation to it, not many people would not have known about it. And so this event itself, on its own, is a very,.. Small, some-somewhat a minor event that even people who s… have studied, labor movements in Korea don't really know about. And so the director Lee's immediate th… there isn't anybody around me that even knew about it either, so

24:41Lee Hyuk-rae... I don't have any immediate encounter with that event, yes.

24:44Jawad MirSure. Sure, no problem. You know, one thing I found interesting, and I don't know if this was just a coincidence, S… Sewing Sisters and Yellow Door, there was quite a bit of similarities in a sense. You know, Sewing Sister's about three

25:05Jawad Mir... Women who have sort of lived through this art of creation, and Yellow d… and they're… doing a reunion, and Yellow Door is pretty much a similar approach, where you are going back to the childhood days of film club. Was that... Did you find that interesting, or was that something that attracted you because you felt something similar to Sewing Sisters with Yellow Door? I mean, it was kinda your own story anyways, but just kinda curious.

26:32Lee Hyuk-raeSo, I was actually surprised myself of the similarities between the two films. I originally thought that the second film, Yellow Door, would be quite different from my previous work, but, in the end, it did turn out to have a lot more similarities than I thought. So I s… I was also, surprised at that. Yes, so, there was even a small episode at the Busan Film Festival where the film first premiered, Yellow Door premiered.

27:39Lee Hyuk-rae... An audience member, a member from the audience, s… who actually saw my previous film, Sewing Sisters, and also came to see the new one, asked the question that about the opening scene, because both movies do have, a kind of a hill, hilltop where it, where the film begins, and also, so the audience asked whether this is kind of like your signature kind of touch…... On or take on a film, or if it was intended to have that kind of effect. And he was actually... I was actually surprised to hear that from the audience because I didn't realize until that point that there were those commonalities. So actually,. So actually, after hearing that, it wa… it did, it did give me a sense of, kind of sense of crisis and that I'm in trouble, and so, because yeah, and he will el-la…

28:50Jawad MirYeah

28:50Lee Hyuk-rae... I think he'll elaborate more on that, yes. Yeah. Yeah, so, I thought that, in order to break away from such patterns, that I need, maybe for my next project, need to move to a subject matter that is really, far away from…... What I did before, in order to at least, provide some space or room or to break away from what I, was doing in, before.

29:52Lee Hyuk-raeAnd in that's how I think as a filmmaker, people will perceive me as, like, how I'm evolving or I'm developing as a filmmaker. Or else, I might be, I might, be seen to fall into similar patterns again, so yes.

30:08Jawad MirYeah. No, that makes sense, it's be… and I can relate to that because two of the most recent films that I directed

30:19Lee Hyuk-raeOkay

30:19Jawad Mir... Which Lee, you saw, Ci-Citizen of Mo… Moria in Search of My Sister. Now the question is Oh, are you gonna make a film on such human right issue? As much as I would want to, I don't want to because then you're just kinda typecasted in that, in that paintbrush, you know, that's all you do. So I completely understand that. I… in terms of the film, like, Y… Yellow Door was financed by Netflix, right?

31:17Lee Hyuk-raeRight.

31:18Jawad MirBut this particular one, in terms of... Like, was it, was it being produced by,.. Like, was it funded by a TV station, or was it just independent producers? And how difficult was it, if at all, during the production to stay on budget and to m… and to stay on schedule?

32:50Lee Hyuk-raeYes. So, for Sewing Sisters, public funding was the main, source of our funds. So there's the Korean Film Council.

33:02Guest 2Council.

33:03Lee Hyuk-raeIt's called KOFIC, and there's also a film commission in e… every region in Korea. So the Seoul Film Commission in this case also was one of the main, s… source of funding. Yes. And but it was an independent project, so if we compare the two projects, the Sewing Sisters budget w… compared to the Yellow Door was only a 10th, 10%.

33:47Jawad MirFor sure.

33:48Lee Hyuk-raeYeah. Yes. So although the budget, overall budget was only a 10th of, Yellow Door… That actually also was a h… I think it could be also, like, a positive point because… ... Then you don't have the stress or, the confinement of having to abide by a deadline. So w… and he thinks, I think that is one of the major, advantages of having a low budget project. And so with that, freedom of time, we were able to meet, and interview the characters multiple times and create a certain rapport with them, and I think that is a really, important quality that this does show in the film. So, although the budget was smaller, with the, with the freedom of more, production s… time, I was able to, create something different with Sewing Sisters.

35:18Jawad MirRight. A… well, you know, when you work on any kind of a project, it's an education for the director as well, no matter how much he or she may already know about it because you really have to dive into the story, the project, the characters. The arc is one thing in the film, but I always find there's a arc that takes place in a director's life, too, over a course of one film, second film, third film. What was that arc with you? If you learned anything, what was it? Did you become more close to the historical event, got you to do more research? How does it change the... From the beginning till the end, how did it change you?

37:32Lee Hyuk-raeSo I believe that documentaries, it's important to control the amount of information when or how much you reveal to the audience. And usually with a documentary, you're usually trying to introduce a new something that is very unfamiliar or new to the audience, whether it be an event or a period in time or a character. So it's important to control how much information is presented to the audience in what way.

38:22Lee Hyuk-raeAnd so that's why obviously the importance of research comes about. And so in for this, for the sewing sisters, I was also unaware of much of these events and this period in our time, so I had to do a lot of research myself as well.

39:00Lee Hyuk-raeSo while filming and also during editing, it was the most important task was to figure out how to tell this vast amount of knowledge and information to the audience in the most effective way. But as a filmmaker, what I learned throughout this whole process is it's not the important thing is not to select what kind of information you're going to show to the audience, but it's actually what you're not going to tell the audience that is more important what you're going to leave out.

40:17Lee Hyuk-raeAnd so I think it's always important when a person watches a film in order to get the as a filmmaker to immerse the audience into the film, into the story and into the characters. And so what I learned throughout this process is to actually, cut out any edit out any kind of information that was not helping this process of immersing the audience into this experience, into these characters, into the story. So whether I make a documentary or whether I make a fiction film in the future, I believe this is one of the biggest takeaways that I have learned throughout this process.

40:56Jawad MirOkay. Thank you. You know, when you are as a director, sound recorder, cinematographer, whatever your role is on the set, sometimes there are moments in a film, especially in documentary, because people are telling their real stories as opposed to one that's in the script in a narrative film. Was there a particular moment, and it has happened to me on every film that I've done, was there a particular moment where you became extremely emotional during an interview or during a scene? Emotional doesn't necessarily mean it made you cry, but also emotional in the sense that it made you laugh or smile. If so, which scene was it?

42:48Lee Hyuk-raeActually, two, moments, of our filming does come to mind. And so one of them was a very unexpected moment. I didn't expect it to be that emotional, but it was. And another moment was, it was really expected to be a very emotional scene, and I was, looking out for it. But it… the degree of the emotion was much more intense than what I expected.

43:50Lee Hyuk-raeSo the first, instance of an unexpected, instant was when, in the film, there is a picture of a young girl in front of a very red kind of wall. And… ... When we, when the character did an interview with that, in relation to that picture, so at first I thought it was a very, a bright and very shiny moment in the life of this young girl. But then, later, after the interview or during the interview, I realized very unexpectedly that it was actually, right after this young girl came out of prison, and it reflected all the kind of, agony or the hardships…

44:35Lee Hyuk-rae... That this person had to go through. And so this was a very unexpected moment for me, which really, created evo… created various emotions for me. And so the other one, which, was very, expected from the beginning to be a very emotional scene, was, as you can i-imagine, was the ending scene that we filmed.

45:47Lee Hyuk-raeSo, the last scene, the closing scene, we see the characters, go through this very dark tunnel, and then eventually encounter their, pictures from their childhood or their youth. And we wanted to capture what kind of responses they would have to this. And it was expected to be a very emotional, scene. But when I actually saw them, like come face to face with their selves, their past selves through these pictures, it was, it was so emotional for me to watch, through the camera or through the viewfinder that, or through the monitor that, I couldn't speak. I was speechless for about five minutes when seeing that scene. It was so moving for me.

47:11Lee Hyuk-raeSo, when I was, studying films, I was always interested and mesmerized with the Spil… the so-called Spielberg face. So director Steven Spielberg, in his films, there's always a moment, where a moment of like, surprise or astonishment where a character kind of, from the viewpoint of the audience, will represent what the audience is feeling at that moment and…

47:36Lee Hyuk-rae... Create this, like, face of awe or surprise. And so he was… it was my dream to always want to film such a moment, but it was real… I unexpectedly was able to do this through a documentary, not a fiction film. And so that kind of moment was with the last scene. I was able to capture that kind, that facial expression, that Spielberg face, in the setting of a documentary.

48:03Guest 2Raiders March E.T.,.

48:33Guest 3So whenever, we had to film a difficult scene, with Sewing Sisters, I always played,.. I always listened to the music of, for example, Spielberg's Raiders, the Ra-Raiders March or the OST of ET. So I'd always listen to these music, these kind of, music to, sort of calm me down and get me in the right kind of zone and mood to film, and to maybe help alleviate any kind of anxieties I had with the, for the scene. And this really helped me out through the filming process.

49:13Jawad MirIt's funny you mentioned Spielberg, so I'll, I'll say two things, one relevant to your fin… film, and one just a random something I remembered from my past in terms of experience of a Spielberg moment. So when I was watching the ending of the film, of your film, Sewing Sisters, you know, there was a shot of the lady walking i-into the darkness in the hallway, and you see her feet and her, like the bottom half, like from her waist down a-and everything that sort of unfolded. I don't know how, it just felt like, to me, the last scene of Schindler's List when

49:51Guest 3Ah

49:51Jawad Mir... Liam Neeson's, Oskar Schil… Schindler and, Ben Kingsley's character, and they're talking about, "I could have done more" with the watch, and the lighting in that and the emotion in that, it… the first thing that struck to me that it just reminded me of that at a con… at a conscious level. And then that Spielberg moment, sorry, at a subconscious level, and that Spielberg moment that you're talking about, there was one time, I think it was in 2001, I was attending a press screening of AI, Artificial Intelligence, and I went with a colleague of mine who's also a huge Spielberg fan, and we were sitting beside each other and before the film started, and we said to each other, "We will elbow each other when we see that Spielberg moment," you know, that shot of Spielberg where the camera goes in and the character comes up, or something relevant. And there was a scene in AI when the mother abandons, her robotic son, and you see the rear view min… the, rear view mirror of the car, the side, mirror of the car, and Haley Joel Osment's character in it, and the car moves away and he goes really far, and it shows the distance between them.

51:05Jawad MirSo I just thought I should mention those two things while we were talking about Spielberg.

52:37Guest 3Just wanted to ask you one last question, Lee. Aside from being a director and editor, you have a very strong visual eye with cinematography. Like it's very, every shot is like a, is almost like a beautiful photograph or a painting that you craft. Have… And we talked about this last time you and I spoke, that director Bong has, you know, said you should make a narrative film, direct a narrative film. Obviously, that's something you would do, but have you ever considered being a s… before you direct a narrative, maybe be a cinematographer or an editor on a narrative on someone else's project?

54:23Guest 3So I don't know about being a DP or a cinematographer, but for a long time, I have thought of, becoming like, a professional editor for fiction films

55:04Lee Hyuk-raeAnd the reason for that is because, if we think of it, my time as a director, is shorter than my time as an audience, and I've been an audience much longer in my life…... And been in that position much longer, and I feel more comfort and joy in watching films, because of that, I guess. Yeah.

56:11Lee Hyuk-raeYes. And so as you, a-as you know, like the editor is someone like who is closest to the audience when… ... They're watching a film, and is one of the first audiences to see the film as well. And, so when I'm... So I think the role of the editor can be a person who, kind of, relays the vision of a director, but makes it into the kind of the best version the audience wants to see, the most entertaining or most interesting version. So as a good, audience member, I'd like… I'm interested in making a good film a-and trying to make the best version of the film for the audience. And so that's why I have been thinking of, going into editing for quite some time. And however, the actual process of making films, my last two films as well, have been somewhat similar to this process in that, I was always thinking of the audience's perspective. What kind of film would I want to see? What kind of documentary would I want to see about this subject matter? And that's how we planned our, filmings and shoots and interviews, in order to cater to, my need as an audience to see a certain version of a film.

57:26Lee Hyuk-raeYeah.

57:26Jawad MirRight. No, that's, that's, that's true, and that's something Spielberg would always say, too. So, it is absolutely 100%, the way to do it. And, you know, thank you for making Sewing Sisters. I enjoyed it very much as we, as we chatted it, chatted about it, and I really look forward to seeing more from you in coming years, you know, and down the road, whether you're editing or directing. Really admire of your work, so thank you so much.

58:01Lee Hyuk-rae100%.,.,.

58:24Guest 2., Kingdom of Dreams., Jawad,. Emmanuel.

59:20Lee Hyuk-raeYeah. So, it was really an honor to be able to, talk about and introduce, two of my films within a short period of time with only within a month. Both of my films were introduced through your podcast, and it's-such an honor to be able to, speak and speak with you and introduce my film on this, very lovely platform. So tha-thank you very much for that. And, I would also be very, intrigued to see, you, Jawad's, third film, whether it be a documentary or fiction film, we don't know, but I would be really, intrigued to see your next film. And, as a courtesy note, I think he did also mention me and that although today we are meeting as translator and host, maybe someday you could, introduce also and talk about my film, which he said…

1:00:11Jawad MirAbsolutely

1:00:11Lee Hyuk-rae... Is a very, intriguing and fantastic film as well. So, I don't know about that, but yes. It was also a joy to be here as myself as well. Yeah.

1:00:22Jawad MirWould love to, and I think Director Lee has opened up my interest. I mean, I've watched foreign films. I've seen Japanese films, I've seen Iranian films, but I think he's sort of opened up my interest in South Korean cinema. And, it's funny he mentioned that talking to you because I was, I was thinking about it this morning

1:00:44Guest 3That maybe I should start talking to other South Korean filmmakers and, you know, kinda learn from them, and also reach in a different set of audience from a podcast standpoint. So yeah, it'd be, it'd be really cool to do so.

1:01:58Guest 3Yes. So although o… obviously, Japanese and Iranian films are really good and superb, if you want, if you're interested in seeing more Korean films or more hidden gems, that are here, he will be a, he… I will be able to, you know, look around and maybe connect you with more people or films, that may be, interest of to your podcast, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I'd love to.

1:02:34Lee Hyuk-raeIn particular, I would like to als… maybe introduce or be introduce to you, a very, masterpiece from the 1960s made by a famous director called Shin Sang-ok. The… Eunuch?

1:02:51Guest 3Daesi. Eunuch?

1:02:53Lee Hyuk-raeEunuch.

1:02:54Guest 3Eunuch? Yes. So, in royal courtyards there was eunuch… eunuchs in the... And it's about one of those, one of those people. So, yeah, he'd like to recommend that one to you. Yeah. Sure. I would love to. I would love to chat, more. We will communicate over email.

1:03:13Guest 3Now one thing I wanted to, because we're both Spielberg fans… ... You should get this.

1:03:19Lee Hyuk-raeOoh. Ah.

1:03:22Guest 3It just came out. It came out, two weeks ago. So it has everything, stories, behind-the-scenes photos. Really great stuff, like even notes…

1:03:35Lee Hyuk-raeWhere can, where can I buy it? Amazon?

1:03:40Guest 3Yeah, I got it from, I got it from the, publisher, but it's also available on Amazon. I don't know if it's…

1:03:45Lee Hyuk-raeOh

1:03:45Guest 3... Available on in South Korea. I know it's available in United States, UK, and Canada for sure. Yeah, it's a great book.

1:03:54Lee Hyuk-raeYeah.

1:03:54Guest 3Highly recommend it. Thank you. Great. Thank you, Lee, so much. We'll be in touch over email. Would love to know…

1:04:12Lee Hyuk-raeYeah

1:04:12Guest 3... More about other films, and let's continue talking. Thank you again.

1:04:15Lee Hyuk-raeYeah. Yeah. Thank you.

1:04:29Guest 3So, looking forward to meeting you again in another situation, maybe hopefully with another of my films, and thank you so much for today. Yeah. For sure. Thank you so much. Take care, guys. Have a good day. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for watching and listening. Don't forget to subscribe, like, share, and comment, and do come back for another episode. Until then, have a great day.