'The Roshans', Editor, Geeta Singh

0:09Jawad MirHello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Kingdom of Dreams Podcast: The Making Of Stories. Today, my guest is Geeta Singh, who I had the pleasure of speaking a few months ago about another series that she edited called Angry Young Men. That was for Amazon. Today, she's gonna talk about the series that she edited for Netflix called The Roshans. The Roshans encapsulates the story of four individuals from one family, musician Roshan Lal in 1950s and 1960s, his sons Rajesh Roshan, also a musician from '70s onwards up until today, Rakesh Roshan, who's a director, producer, and actor, and Rakesh Roshan's son, Hrithik Roshan. My conversation with Geeta was great. We talked about the nostalgia, we talked about the series, we talked about the access. We're gonna be covering this series throughout the next week or two with few more guests. Rakesh Roshan is gonna be on, later this week, as well as the director of the series, Shashi Rajan. We're gonna have him out as well, and we're working on a few other people as well. But without further ado, here's my conversation with Geeta Singh for Netflix, The Roshans.

1:12Jawad MirIt was a great series, just, you know, how you guys sort of focused on each person per episode.

1:19Geeta SinghYes.

1:20Jawad MirI wasn't really aware of the actual Roshan ... Much. I mean, obviously I'd heard the songs, but just like in the series it was explored that not many people recognize him like you would…

1:32Geeta SinghNo

1:32Jawad Mir... RD Burman, Laxmikant-Pyarelal or, you know, Kalyan-ji Anandji or Bappi Lahiri, you know, all those people. But yeah, no, thank you so much for being part of it. It was incredible.

1:44Geeta SinghIt was incredible for me, too. It really was. So I mean, it's the same thing. When they, when I, got contacted for the series, I also didn't know that there would be an episode. I didn't know there was somebody called Roshan Saab. I had, I had no idea, and my fav… In fact, when I started editing and, they said, "Oh, you know, Kav… Qawwali was his, strong point."

2:08Geeta SinghAnd then I said, "But this Qawwali I used to sing." Like, I was so fond of it, you know, the Ishq Hai?

2:15Jawad MirYeah.

2:15Geeta SinghBut I didn't know he'd done it, and for all the other songs. So that was really lovely. I mean, just imagine, like what Javed Saab said, that he, nobody really bothered to... And I think he also sort of, was a soft man and didn't really blow his trumpet and just did the work that he did, and unfortunately passed, very early on. So he really didn't get his due, and therefore, I'm really glad that they went ahead and did this so that people know that, hey, you know, all these lovely songs that you're singing have been composed by this genius.

2:55Jawad MirYeah. No, it's, it's true, and that it is, it is so sad, but unfortunately it's a reality that a lot of people, don't get the recognition until they're gone, if at all. It, that whole arc reminded me, there was a documentary that came out six, seven years ago called Searching for Sugar, I think it was called.

3:16Geeta SinghYeah. That's right.

3:17Jawad MirRight?

3:18Geeta SinghYeah.

3:18Jawad MirThe whole, the guy who was non-existent in United States…

3:21Geeta SinghWow

3:21Jawad Mir... But was like a superhero in South Africa.

3:24Geeta SinghYeah.

3:24Jawad MirSo it's, it's crazy how those things work. But again, like, it's good to have this documented and now that you can see, you know, where it all sort of started from, right? So yeah, really cool. I really enjoyed it. For me it was, I knew Salim-Javed's story more, which you had worked on. We spoke about it five, six months ago. So that was very much different experience than this. I knew some of the elements. Like, I knew, you know, Rakesh Roshan's films like Koan Bani... Mang, Krishan Kanooniya, Khail, which is one of my favorite one. I remember watching it.

3:58Geeta SinghKarun Arjun.

3:59Jawad MirYeah. Ka… Karan Arjun. I remember it was funny that you guys ta… they talked about, like, how it was, like, a completely crazy concept. But somehow... And it's true, because I probably watched it until the point where they get killed, and that was it. I never went past that.

4:13Geeta SinghYeah.

4:15Jawad MirBut at the s…

4:15Geeta SinghBecause it's unbelievable, right?

4:17Jawad MirYeah.

4:17Geeta SinghBut it's, like, that's the whole thing. It's suspension of disbelief and you just, you're, you're in the moment. You're not, you're not looking for logic. You're invested in the story, and you're enjoying it. Then logic can just, you know, take a backseat.

4:29Jawad MirYeah.

4:30Geeta SinghIt's, that's what worked for the film and that, and I think even when Shah Rukh speaks about it and says, you know, even they may have signed the film, but somewhere they must have felt, you know, "What is this? What are we a part of?" And is this even, does it even make sense? But, they went ahead and did it, and that's what he said. I didn't know that this is gonna become the blockbuster that it did, so.

4:51Jawad MirYeah. Yeah. So you talked about... So tell me, when did you get on this, get on board on this pro… Like, when did you find out about it? Was it when you were working on Angry Young Men? Just

5:03Geeta SinghYeah.

5:03Jawad MirOkay.

5:03Geeta SinghI mean, I was towards the fag end of, Angry Young Men when they had contacted me for the series. So I s… I started working on it, September of 2023.

5:16Jawad Mir'3. Okay.

5:17Geeta SinghYeah. So it took me a year, a little over a year to finish it. But this was slightly different from Angry Young Men in the sense that they had already shot, I would say 90% of the material. So I was like, Angry Young Men I was brought in before they started shooting.

5:35Geeta SinghHere, everything was shot, largely, except for, you know, a couple of interviews and some of the bits that were, some B-roll shots, you know. But largely everything had been shot. So that was a different experience, because then you have to, you know, it's like, it takes a little longer. Because in that case, they, while they were shooting I was already seeing the rushes, getting familiar…

5:58Jawad MirYeah

5:58Geeta Singh... You know, doing my process. Here, because they had already shot, there was also an excitement from their end to, you know, quickly Start seeing some results, but I needed the time to, you know, go through the footage and explore and ideate and make sense of it, and also because it was something that I didn't know. Like, Salim-Javed also I knew the story largely, you know, I'd watched the films. Here, I hadn't. Like, first episode was completely new, which was also very refreshing. And even, Rajesh Roshan's episode also, a lot of the songs I was unaware.

6:35Geeta SinghLike Natwarlal, Ju… Julie also. I didn't know, like, you know... I knew that he's a composer, but I didn't know his filmography.

6:42Jawad MirYeah.

6:42Geeta SinghHis music thing, so, yeah.

6:47Jawad MirYeah. And another…

6:48Geeta SinghSo about a year, a year of work, yeah.

6:51Jawad MirI actually spotted you in the credits or just for…

6:54Geeta SinghRight, yes.

6:55Jawad MirIt was, like, literally for, like, a fraction of a second.

6:58Geeta SinghYeah.

6:58Jawad MirI'm like, "Oh, there's Geeta," and then she disappears.

7:00Geeta SinghActually, I didn't want to, but Shashi was the director. He said, "No, this is fun and this is all what it is, and we're all part of it, and, you know, we've all worked on it, so why not? Come on." So that was my only shot that I had, because, I had... Because they'd already finished shooting, right?

7:14Jawad MirYeah.

7:14Geeta SinghSo there were only a couple of people that,.. Which is good, so I was happened to be there for Hrithik's and Shah Rukh's shoot, so that was great. Yeah.

7:22Jawad MirAwesome. What was it working like with, Shashi? Had you ever worked with him before? Just the experience…

7:28Geeta SinghNo

7:28Jawad Mir... Of working.

7:29Geeta SinghNo, I hadn't worked with Shashi before. So yeah, it was,.. I guess it's, working with every director is different because they are different… ... People. So it was a different, experience and, of course he's, extremely, I think he's, very fond of music himself. And, he also is, very connected to the industry, so he, everyone is like a friend, you know?

7:56Geeta SinghSo he's got an inside sort of... He's got the access, and he's an inside kind of a person, so he knows everyone and it's, so, you know, it's, for him to do an interview with any of these, people was easy because you already have a rapport. You don't have to, you know, they know you know them, so it was easy.

8:17Jawad MirRight.

8:18Geeta SinghSo, yeah, I, it was very easy working with him. We didn't have any fights except for one. Which is…

8:28Jawad MirYou have to have at least one.

8:29Geeta SinghYeah, we had one. So we did that, where I said, "Was that at a special, edit or was it just like out of frustration in general that you guys were ha… like, was it m… moment that did it or just very general?

8:57Jawad MirSure.

8:57Geeta SinghIt was episode three.

9:05Jawad MirYeah.

9:05Geeta SinghWhere, yeah, episode three where Shah Rukh is talking about, Rakesh, Roshan's cinema towards the end where we have some shots of him from, Koyla where he's running…

9:24Jawad MirYeah

9:24Geeta Singh... With the, with the fire. It was that moment with the... It was a fire shot…

9:29Jawad MirYeah

9:29Geeta Singh... Where I had put... What you see in the edit is what I had done, and, Shashi had a slightly different point of view and he wanted to me, wanted me to expand that sequence a little bit. And, I was explaining to him why and he was telling me why he wants it, and I said, "I don't want it," and that's what we fought about. But I was like, "Okay, you're the director, and I should show you what you want to see. It's only fair, right?"

9:53Jawad MirYeah.

9:53Geeta SinghSo I did it and then I left it because sometimes, you know, you also have to just detach yourself and say, "Okay, maybe it works. Maybe," you know? "That's fine." So, we left. I did it and then he, saw it a couple of days later and we, you know, we reviewed it a few more times and then later he said, "I think we just go back to the earlier cut." So I was like, "Okay, fine. That's fine." And that's the process. That until you…

10:21Jawad MirYeah

10:21Geeta Singh... Actually, the, until you try it, you don't know.

10:24Jawad MirYeah.

10:24Geeta SinghAnd it's best to just, you know, sort of like we discussed this last time. There's, there's no space for ego, so just try it and if it works, it's great. If it doesn't, it doesn't.

10:33Jawad MirThat's awesome.

10:34Geeta SinghAnd I also, we also had, Rakesh Ji coming into the studio. Like, he would come, quite often and see the cuts and, give his inputs and,.. And also it's interesting because, that day at the trailer launch also, Rakesh Ji said that, he said, "I've done 17 films, 17 feature films, but this has been the toughest."

10:57Jawad MirOh, it's…

10:57Geeta SinghBecause…

10:58Jawad Mir... Personal, documentary, and...

11:01Geeta SinghPersonal, more than personal, documentary.

11:04Jawad MirYeah.

11:04Geeta SinghThat's the operative word, because they've, they haven't done this, genre before, and he's done films where you have a bound script, and you have so much time to, you know, tweak the script before you go on the shoot and after the shoot also. So there is a structure. There is something to fall back on. Here, you've got like 60 people who are talking. Now, how do you make sense of this? How do you construct a story which is gonna be engaging? And you know, there is so much material. You've got films, you've got archives, you've got photographs, you've got people talking, and what do you, where do you start? So it was, so when I met him also first he asked me, he says, "what about the script and all?" So I was like, "Sir, there's no script." So he said, "Just how will we start? What's the first shot?" So I remember, and I'd never met him before, so when I walked into his office also it was like, you know, this girl who's gushing and seeing Rakesh Roshan because I've also, you know, grown up watching his films, so exciting. And then I sat with him and, over the cup of coffee he said, "So what's my first shot?"

12:07Geeta SinghSo I was like, "I don't know, sir. I don't know." Like, "I have to start seeing the rushes and figuring it out and, " And also we were not sure of how we were g… because it's a fam… it's a tricky one, right? Because they are all connected. Of course, apart from Roshan Saab, who's, you know, it's, it's, it's a standalone episode, and of course he deserves a standalone episode. But the other three, it was hard because they are, they've all worked with each other, they're all connected in a family way, they're all connected work-wise. How do you segregate? How do you make paral… parallel stories? In fact, there was also one suggestion that why are we doing one episode per person? Apart from Roshan Saab, why don't we do r… the brothers' story as, you know, a parallel…

12:55Jawad MirOne

12:55Geeta Singh... Cutting sort of a thing.

12:56Jawad MirYeah.

12:56Geeta SinghBut that was complicated because, you know, there, also there was too much because they both have their own journeys and, they, it, they started off at different time periods, so it was complicated to have achieved that.

13:11Jawad MirYeah.

13:11Geeta SinghThat do one episode for Rakesh Ji and Rajesh Ji together, that would've been hard, and maybe wouldn't have ju… done justice either. And, of course, there are a lot of people who are also saying that, you know, haven't got enough of, Hrithik's story. But my only point to that is that is another series on its own, because that is…

13:33Jawad MirYeah

13:33Geeta Singh... Like another three episodes. I mean, Hrithik's story is another story, so... Which is why we didn't go beyond Krrish and we left it there, and we didn't do any of his other, films thereafter that he's done with other directors other than his father.

13:50Jawad MirRight. Well, it was also like a, it had to be in sync with them all each other, right? Like, if you went off, like for example, even Rajesh Roshan, like he had done so many, so much music without Rakesh. So if you went in a different way, which you touched upon very b… briefly, right, like the movie Khuda Gawah with Amitabh Bachchan.

14:06Geeta SinghRight.

14:06Jawad MirIt would've, it would've taken a different direction. Same thing with Hrithik. It's like, then it's just not part of the story that you're trying to focus on, right?

14:13Geeta SinghYeah. Yeah.

14:14Jawad MirBut yeah, that, th… that was a good move bec… because I... And less is more. I mean, it's just the old saying, right? Less is more.

14:20Geeta SinghYeah.

14:20Jawad MirAnd you, and I loved how, by the way, you men… you asked about, you talked about how do we begin. The way you guys began was a perfect way to begin.

14:28Geeta SinghThat was we…

14:29Jawad Mir'Cause it brought back…

14:30Geeta SinghYeah

14:30Jawad Mir... Sorry.

14:31Geeta SinghWe arrived at it, like it, we were thinking of, "Okay, what do we do?" Like, how do we... Like, how, really, how do we start? So that is just the sort of a struggle thing. And then while I was going through the rushes, I found, the recording of Roshan Saab's song. And I had to, check again that, you know, i… is this actually his voice? Is this his song? And we, then we, you know, we went back to the recording and we heard Amin Saab's thing, and they said, "Yeah, okay, this is his song." So I said, "Okay, so this is great, so but how do we use this?" Like, you know. And then also they wanted to open with Hrithik, right?

15:06Jawad MirYeah.

15:06Geeta SinghAnd the fact that's another surprising thing, that most people didn't even know that, he's Roshan Saab's grandson. So I said, "Okay, so that's it. That's the story," right?

15:17Jawad MirYeah.

15:17Geeta SinghAnd using that and the, you know, the whole song and him, and then, of course we had to sell the idea to him and say, "Okay, are you okay with this?" And we, are you... So he was like, he loved it, and he really loved it. He loved the whole series, and he also gave some really nice, valuable inputs and it really helped. So it was, it was great. It was... He's got a g… great eye. So…

15:38Jawad MirYeah

15:38Geeta Singh... He, and, he watches something and, suggested something, and, you know, we would try it. And not that he came to the studio, but we went to his house and we showed him a couple of episodes and, he had some interesting things to say, and we sort of worked on those. Yeah.

15:54Jawad MirYeah. No, that's super. For me personally, aside from, you know, the song that you guys use in the opening and Hrithik being there, it was that tape recorder.

16:05Geeta SinghYeah.

16:05Jawad MirThe very first shot. That was it.

16:06Geeta SinghYeah.

16:06Jawad MirLike, it just pulls you. Like, all the people who are gonna watch this series are the ones that are from the '80s and the s… you know, growing up…

16:13Geeta SinghYes

16:13Jawad Mir... In the '80s and '90s. So that's, that's a pull.

16:15Geeta SinghYeah.

16:16Jawad MirFor me it was, very intensively.

16:17Geeta SinghYeah.

16:18Jawad MirNothing against Hrithik or his grandfather, but that was...

16:21Geeta SinghYeah.

16:21Jawad MirI was sucked in right away.

16:23Geeta SinghYeah.

16:25Jawad MirAwesome. Awesome. What was the most, from an editing standpoint, right, like, you know, we talked about your disagreement with the director, Sash… Sashi, Shashi. What was the most challenging part, or top three challenging part in the entire series that you had to sort of spend a lot of time on as opposed to everything else? Aside from like, you know, finding, going through the interviews, which is itself very time-consuming. Just the editing s… part itself.

16:56Geeta SinghI think it was, I think the toughest episode for me was episode three. Which was Rakesh Ji's episode, because there were so many things that were there, so many of his facets that, you know, he started off as an actor, then, that didn't work out, and then, you know, he moved to direction.

17:16Jawad MirProducer.

17:16Geeta SinghThat didn't take, you know, to, yeah. So many of his career graphs, and things were moving parallel-ly. So structuring that was hard. That was the toughest thing. And the other thing also in such a series is that how do you s… not, make it monotonous? You know, where there is a bite, and then there's a song, and then there's a bite, and then there's a song.

17:46Jawad MirYeah.

17:47Geeta SinghSo how do you break that pattern? Of course sometimes that's what it is, right? So someone's talking about a song and analyzing it, or talking about the lyrics or how, or like when Javed Saab talks about, in the first episode where he talks about his minimal music. And so, I mean, it's going to be that. But what can you do to, you know, break that pattern and things? So just ideating on that was, that was something that we had to work on, that what is it that we can do. Otherwise, I mean, largely it was just structuring was something that, not a struggle, but just had to put some of your heads together and say, "Okay, how do we, make this engaging and how do we tell the story in the best way?" the fourth episode also was tricky because it wasn't fully Hrithik, it wasn't fully Rakesh Ji.

18:41Jawad MirYeah.

18:41Geeta SinghIt was them, father, son. It was them as, director and actor, him becoming a superstar, keeping that balance, plus, you know, Rakesh Ji's whole, ill health and his, medical things. And so that was also... It was just a lot of things to put in, and how do you construct it into a story…

19:09Jawad MirYeah

19:09Geeta Singh... That's engaging? But I think that was the challenge and, yeah. But I just followed my way of working that I always do, and you just arrive at it. So, yeah.

19:24Jawad MirWhat about the reenactment parts? When did that come about, and what were your thoughts about it when you guys... Was that already decided when you came on board?

19:33Geeta SinghYeah. It was already shot.

19:34Jawad MirOh, it was already shot.

19:36Geeta SinghRight.

19:36Jawad MirBut w…

19:36Geeta SinghSo they had shot most of it, like I said. There were only a couple of interviews that they did once after I joined.

19:42Jawad MirRight.

19:42Geeta SinghBut everything was, shot largely. So, okay, so I, what did you feel about it?

19:51Jawad MirThe beginning when it was the f… when I started seeing it in the very beginning, I'm not a fan of reenactments. Just being upfront…

19:58Geeta SinghOkay

19:59Jawad Mir... In general. Nothing to do with this film.

20:01Geeta SinghOkay.

20:01Jawad MirRight? I was kind of taken out. But then I was pulled back in. But I think the part where I was really taken out with the reenactment, because you're trying to show an era when there was no movement of drone shots or steady cams, and there was this, the sequence I think where they were sitting by the water with the Harmonium.

20:21Geeta SinghThe, yeah.

20:21Jawad MirAnd the camera was moving, like…

20:23Geeta SinghYeah

20:23Jawad Mir... Really. That took me out because that's, that wasn't there in the…

20:28Geeta SinghIt doesn't belong.

20:28Jawad MirYeah, right. That's… that's pretty much it. Other than that, I mean, I was pretty much there. But I think that particularly took me out.

20:34Geeta SinghRight. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I mean, we, I had discussed this also with Jashi, but I think they had, they had shot it already. So…

20:41Jawad MirYeah

20:41Geeta Singh... Yeah, I mean, that is something which people have commented on also, largely, that did we need it at all. But, that you can argue, but that's also a choice that the director has.

20:54Jawad MirYeah, of course.

20:55Geeta SinghSo…

20:55Jawad MirIt worked. Believe me, it worked at the end. I'm just speaking in general, right?

20:59Geeta SinghYeah.

21:00Jawad MirYeah.

21:00Geeta SinghI mean, how you choose to do it is up to you. Now…

21:02Jawad MirYeah

21:02Geeta Singh... Whether you want to do it in a slightly subtle way where it's, you know, more silhouettes and you don't show faces and, you know, it's... So you know it's a, it's, it's taking you back in that time, but you're not really seeing close-ups and, you know, that kind of thing. But it was, I mean, I didn't have much control over that, so.

21:18Jawad MirOh, no. I'm, look, I'm, I'm not trying to be critical.

21:22Geeta SinghNo, but it was kind of…

21:22Jawad MirI'm just giving my opinion

21:23Geeta Singh... I feel that, if you're, y… you're, yeah, it's, it does stand out, but if you're sort of invested in the story, then you just take it in and…

21:34Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

21:35Geeta SinghYeah.

21:36Jawad MirAnd it, and it worked for the most part, like specifically for the part, I think that…

21:40Geeta SinghHritak Sharma

21:42Jawad Mir... That and pl…

21:44Geeta SinghThe one that…

21:44Jawad MirThat plus where the, where Rakesh was, Roshan was shot, like that whole sequence with her.

21:51Geeta SinghYeah.

21:51Jawad MirI thought there it was bang on.

21:53Geeta SinghYeah.

21:53Jawad MirRight? Like, because how do you convey that emotion?

21:56Geeta SinghYeah. Yeah.

21:57Jawad MirAnd which is s… which leads me to that next question. Was there more to that part, or was that all that was sort of?

22:05Geeta SinghThat was all.

22:05Jawad MirThat was all

22:06Geeta Singh... I mean, they didn't want to go down that road of discussing.

22:09Jawad MirI figured. Yeah. I figured.

22:11Geeta SinghI think my…

22:11Jawad MirIt was done very tastefully.

22:14Geeta SinghYeah. I mean, I, did, I mean, does it, I mean, of course it, these things shouldn't happen and, but I don't think they wanted to discuss of who did it, why did it happen, and the, that was not the story. The story was that it happened at a point where, at the cusp of his son's crazy success.

22:31Jawad MirPremier, yeah.

22:33Geeta SinghAnd then this is happening, right? So that's life, right? So you're, it's joyous, and yet it can be hard…

22:39Jawad MirYeah. Yeah

22:39Geeta Singh... And tragic at the same time. So that was the story. It was not about anything else. So, yeah.

22:45Jawad MirAwesome. No, I'm glad that you guys didn't go beyond that because then it would've taken you out, completely out of the story, then it becomes like a completely different film altogether, right?

22:52Geeta SinghNo. Some reviews have been, "Oh, you didn't talk about it," and I was like, "Okay."

22:56Jawad MirI…

22:56Geeta SinghBut it's okay. The…

22:57Jawad MirI was glad that you didn't, and especially with what just happened recently a few days ago.

23:01Geeta SinghYes.

23:01Jawad MirWhich I just found out about yesterday, with Saif Ali Khan. But aside from that, was there something that was supposed to go in there, that you wanted to go in there that you couldn't because of, you know, because it didn't make sense or because of structure? Another element of a film that you, they wanted to talk about or some other aspect of any of the Roshans' lives?

23:25Geeta SinghNo, there wasn't anything that we sort of held back or I held back or they held back. The only thing that we couldn't do in some places was, use the visual of the songs that we've used.

23:38Jawad MirI noticed that, yes.

23:39Geeta SinghYeah. So that's a rights issue.

23:41Jawad MirYeah, of course.

23:42Geeta SinghSo that is the only thing which you feel like, "Are..." Because especially so… songs like Julie and even, some of the older song of Roshan Sahab's, like Mandre.

23:50Jawad MirYaarana.

23:51Geeta SinghMandre. Ha, Mandre.

23:53Jawad MirYeah.

23:53Geeta SinghAnd even

23:54Jawad MirYeah

23:54Geeta Singh... Jo Wada Kiya. For me, Jo Wada was a very big problem because, there they are analyzing the song, where, Pyare Bhai is saying, "Ki," you know, when he says, "Da," and he's explaining how he arrives right at the Antara. But I didn't, I mean, it's only when you are, you know, s… you're seeing the visual and hearing the song and making sense of what he's trying to say. So that is where I felt like, "Are, I, what do I do?" I don't have the visual. Like, I can't, you know? So, those things were certainly difficult, but again, I no control over it, so you do the best that you can.

24:33Jawad MirYeah.

24:33Geeta SinghAnd we had to use, you know, photographs and sort of a graphic sort of route. Yeah.

24:40Jawad MirBut I'll tell you what, I noticed that in the beginning. I'm like, "Why am I not seeing that?" And that was more from a nostalgic standpoint, like, just being a fan, right? But I think it was done really well, especially in some sequences where you see, I think you guys did, like, with Ra… Rajesh Roshan, like in a studio with a harmonium and just kind of playing stuff, and I think it worked. It, to me, that worked. Eventually I was completely... I completely forgot about the whole stuff, like, you know, why isn't there a visual.

25:05Geeta SinghYeah.

25:05Jawad MirIn the beginning it was a little odd, but I think it was done, executed really well.

25:10Geeta SinghThank you. Yeah. I mean, there was no choice. We would just have to find the best other way to do it.

25:15Jawad MirYeah.

25:15Geeta SinghBut it would be like even, Natwarlal and, Mere Pas Aao Mere Dost.

25:20Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

25:21Geeta SinghHave the thing. But it was, it would have been such fun to see, you know, Amitabh with long legs and kicking around with his gun and all, but we just couldn't do it, so. And those things happened later. So in the, in the initial edit, I had the visual. I had it all.

25:35Jawad MirOf course. Of course.

25:36Geeta SinghAnd then I was told that, "Hey, sorry, you can't use it." Then you have to think of, "Okay, now what do I do? We have to put the song." So what do you do? So then, because I'd also done the graphics for the series, actually. So the entire, all the archival treatment, the photographs.

25:52Jawad MirOh, wonderful.

25:53Geeta SinghYeah. Yeah. So that also then I had to think of, some interesting way of, you know, using the photographs that we had and, you know, making the still look or come to life.

26:05Jawad MirWell, that's where the editing comes into play properly, right? I mean, not that everything else is easier, but that's where the challenge comes in and you gotta figure a way out or find a solution.

26:15Geeta SinghYeah. Yeah. And you always find a way out, actually.

26:18Jawad MirOf course.

26:18Geeta SinghWhat feels hard initially, you say, "Okay, how am I gonna do this?" But, you know, somehow you just, it just happens. One day you will find it.

26:25Jawad MirYeah. It's just your brain telling you, "I don't wanna do extra work."

26:29Geeta SinghYeah. Oh, you gotta do it, dude.

26:31Jawad MirYeah. Yeah. 100%. And I, we talked about this on, when we were chatting on, WhatsApp, but very briefly, but one thing, you know, it was in, Angry Young Men II, but I personally in this one, you know, you can't, you can't lie to a camera, right? Like, cameras, the audience sees through to you, th… through you when you're saying something and when you're feeling something. What I loved about this particular series is their openness.

27:01Jawad MirAnd that's what made the series what it is. Like, they didn't hold back.

27:06Geeta SinghYeah.

27:06Jawad MirEven when they had to say stuff about each other.

27:09Geeta SinghYeah.

27:09Jawad MirAnd sometimes that can be because, you know, you have two brothers, it's a family, then you have a son, he has a fa… It can become very complex, but I think they did it very elegantly and it showed. It showed very clearly, on the lens.

27:24Geeta SinghYeah. I mean, even when in episode two, when Rakeysh also speaks about how it was hard for Rajesh Ji and, you know, he didn't,.. And it's, it's that thing, no, that you're on a high. You're getting work. People are coming to you. You don't, so you don't need to go and do the networking. You don't need to go and knock on someone's door because they're there. But that's what he says, "Now...," that doesn't stay forever. And then what do you do? Because you haven't been doing that. You haven't been reaching out to people. So it's not in you. And sometimes it's just not in you. People are wired differently. So, and even the brothers, they're wired differently, that Rakeysh is very different. So he'll go out and, you know, it's, he's not like that. So and then you feel sort of left out. What do you do? So those are very real things and even when Rajesh, he talks about his, drinking and smoking and his wife also, you know, talks about that, and these are real things.

28:21Jawad MirYeah.

28:21Geeta SinghAnd even when Rakeysh, he talks about the fact that, you know, acting was not for him, and he... A… and the funny thing is that it's not like he wasn't getting films. He was. He was doing a lot of films, but somehow wasn't cutting through. So that's when I think it just dawned on him that this is not going to work. I'm gonna have to find an alternative career path.

28:47Jawad MirYeah. That particular part about Rajesh Roshan, hit really home for me because I am not in anywhere place or ever been at the level of where Rajesh Roshan was, but in the, there was a small portion of my life in the industry, in production but a little bit on the side where th… I didn't, wasn't networking. Everything was working out perfectly fine, like, for three, four years.

29:12Geeta SinghWow.

29:12Jawad MirI'm like, "Why do I need to bother when every..." It was exactly the same mentality, and then later it showed up, "Oh, shoot, I should have done that." But then you just move on from that part of life into something else, right? But it's so true. It's not cut out for everybody, but now I'm totally different. I'm totally different. It's all about networking. I completely learned my lesson.

29:32Geeta SinghYeah.

29:33Jawad MirIt's so important.

29:33Geeta SinghBut the thing is, everyone can't, even if you realize it's not in everyone's wiring to be able…

29:37Jawad MirI know, but you have to push yourself. That's the thing, and I'm, I'm guilty of that, and I think we all are to a certain extent. A lot of creative people don't have it in them.

29:45Geeta SinghNope, I don't.

29:47Jawad MirYeah.

29:47Geeta SinghI don't.

29:47Jawad MirBut you have to.

29:50Geeta SinghYeah.

29:50Jawad MirYou have to bring it out, you know?

29:53Geeta SinghYeah.

29:53Jawad MirFor some people it's natural. I get it. But at the same time, I think you just got, you have no choice. You gotta do it.

30:01Geeta SinghSo I don't think… I... Yeah, sorry. Sorry.

30:03Jawad MirNo, please go ahead.

30:04Geeta SinghNo, I'm just saying that, for me, like, also when,.. I think Hrithik came out as really, like, soulful.

30:15Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

30:15Geeta SinghLike, it's in his eyes. Like, he was in a…

30:18Jawad Mir100%.

30:19Geeta SinghRight? And I really wanted to use a lot, mostly, his close-ups because, you know, you get to see his eyes and, it was just so lovely. And everything he was just saying, it was just so from the heart, so real. And I really loved the way he spoke and his interview was, very engaging.

30:41Jawad MirYeah, no, I... There was this interview of him with Anupa, Anupama Chopra. I don't know how old it is, but because they knew each other off the screen, she was talking to him, and she asked him, like, you know, "How, if somebody doesn't like your film, it doesn't bother you?" And he had this reply and a smile, and his eyes were telling the truth 100%, is that, "Because that's just a film, and I know you at a different level. Who cares about the film?" And t… to have that kind of a maturity…

31:09Geeta SinghYeah

31:09Jawad Mir... You know, even at the age he is, a lot of pe… some people don't even have it in their 50s and 60s. Like, they just don't.

31:15Geeta SinghYeah.

31:15Jawad MirIt's amazing how down to earth and grounded he is, and he's self-aware, extremely self-aware.

31:26Geeta SinghYep.

31:28Jawad MirAbout the fi… the series when you, when you finished working on it and you guys started screening it for au… whether it was for Rakesh, Hrithik or just general audience, some test purposes, what was some of the feedback that you were getting and what kind of shifts you did, if any, you know, to modify things, or was it pretty much like a home run?

31:57Geeta SinghYeah. I mean, we didn't do any screenings like test screenings, focus group screenings. We didn't do that.

32:03Jawad MirYeah.

32:03Geeta SinghAnd, Rakesh Ji and, Shashi of course were watching the edits as they were unfolding. So they would like, Rakesh Ji would watch it at least once or twice a week. He would come in and, you know, see the progress and where we were, and then, we would discuss it if there were some inputs or some things that we wanted to change, we would work on those. So then we started showing it to the platforms, and we showed it to Netflix. They had a couple of small things, nothing big, just a couple of things, some minor tinkering.

32:45Geeta SinghLargely in episode three, a little bit in episode two. But there wasn't much. There wasn't much. And we did one screening for Hrithik. He saw the first episode and I was quite nervous actually because, that was my only second meeting with him. So I'd met him the first time when I had just come on board and we were to, you know, just meet up and tell him that we were doing this and, also tell him that this is how we want to open the series with you, with the cassette player and hearing your grandfather's song. And so that was my first meeting with him, which was very nice because he's really very down to earth and just a real person, despite all his stardom. And the second time was when we went to show him the first cut of the first episode. So I was quite nervous, you know, in his house and we were watching this and I was like, "Okay, is he..." I mean, I kept, I was watching him, you know, for body language. Is he getting bored?

33:41Jawad MirOf course.

33:41Geeta SinghFidgeting. Is he looking for his phone? Does he want to call his staff or what? I don't know. But, I was like, "Okay, now we just have to sit here and wait," and, it was a slightly longer cut. I think it must have been around 48 or 50 minutes at that time.

33:56Geeta SinghBut he sat through it all and, you know, but he was swiveling his chair in between. So I was like, "Okay, he's getting bored, he's getting bored." But then when we finished and he just said, "Great. Awesome." So there was only one thing where he said that, "Oh, do we need this? Maybe we can trim it a little bit." that's, that was his only comment.

34:20Geeta SinghSo yeah. But yeah, we did trim a little bit because we had a, towards the end of the thing where, after Mr. Bhansali says that, "Kaam karein toh aisa Roshan sahab jaisa karein," and then we have a few songs, like we have Laga Chunari Mein Daag and a couple of other songs. So we had a slightly longer medley over there.

34:38Geeta SinghSo that is the only sequence where we sort of, trimmed it down because, we had used some of the songs that were not very popular because the other songs had already been used in the earlier part of the episode.

34:50Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

34:50Geeta SinghSo we said, "Now we are actually just summing it up, so we don't need, you know, it shouldn't feel like now again something new is starting."

34:57Jawad MirYeah.

34:57Geeta SinghSo just use two, three songs. That was a chunk that we had sort of just trimmed a little bit. But yeah, largely it was all there.

35:06Jawad MirI think for me what was really... It's so funny. I was thinking about this guy, this director literally last week. I don't know why. It, h… he had made, Fiza and Zubeidaa.

35:19Geeta SinghOh, Khalid. Ah.

35:21Jawad Mir'Cause Fiza for me, Fiza and Mission Kashmir and Kaho Na Pyaar Hai are three of his best performances. Like… ... Hands down for me personally, right? And also, Koi Mil Gaya.

35:33Geeta SinghKoi Mil Gaya.

35:33Jawad MirBut as the, as the films, I like those three better, and he did Fiza and it was at a time when post 9/11 and all that stuff.

35:42Geeta SinghYeah.

35:43Jawad MirAnd it was just, I was just so surprised because I've never seen the guy and it was, it was just such a cool thing to see. And, because he's a great, he's a journalist and he's also a great film director.

35:53Geeta SinghYeah.

35:54Jawad MirYeah.

35:54Geeta SinghYeah. Yeah.

35:55Jawad MirWhat are some of your favorite films of Hrithik or Rakesh Roshan that he directed?

36:00Geeta SinghSo, I think…

36:04Jawad MirAnd a so… and a song of Rajesh Roshan.

36:07Geeta SinghSo of course now I can tell you Julie.

36:09Jawad MirYeah.

36:10Geeta SinghAll of Natwarlal and, all those songs, yeah, it's just I didn't know that he had done them, but of course I've grown up, like, listening to all this music. And Rakesh Ji's, I've seen his work more as an actor, like growing up.

36:26Jawad MirReally, eh?

36:27Geeta SinghYeah. Like Khubsoorat.

36:28Jawad MirOpposite for me.

36:30Geeta SinghYeah. All those films I've seen. So for me it was more the actor in him that I re… remembered. Not so much... But of course, Karan Arjun and, the rest of the Hrithik films definitely, like Krrish and Koi Mil Gaya, Kaho Naa Pyaar Hai. But for me, when I think of Rakesh Roshan, my first thought is actor.

36:50Geeta SinghThat's the memory that comes back, because that takes me back, you know, also so many years as a young girl.

36:56Jawad MirMakes sense. Makes sense.

36:57Geeta SinghYeah. So the, I like, loved Khoobsurat. I loved it. You know…

37:03Jawad MirI gotta see it

37:03Geeta Singh... He plays a doctor and he's, cast opposite Rekha. So that was a lovely film. And so for me, that's the memory. Because, I mean, of course, I've watched Karan Arjun, but I, but I've never, I never s… my association with thinking of the name was more actor than director.

37:23Jawad MirYeah. Got it. Did you see any of the direct… films he directed in their full entirety while before you started working on it or even few?

37:32Geeta SinghOn some of them. Not all. Not all. Because I, because I also, because I had seen the interviews and I figured that, there was that much that we were going to talk about. Like, we were not going to like, go deep into a lot of the films.

37:51Geeta SinghBut Khoon Bhari Maang is some film which stays with you, like, forever. It was just so cool.

38:01Jawad MirYeah.

38:01Geeta SinghAnd you know, crocodile. You just think of the crocodile and that scene and she's pushed in and also her…

38:10Jawad MirI mean…

38:10Geeta Singh... Whole transformation.

38:12Jawad MirYeah. It's, it's crazy that scene is something that has stayed with me for a long time.

38:18Geeta SinghYeah.

38:18Jawad MirAnd even in today's time, someone to pull off a scene like that with a actress like Rekha's caliber or like, her fame, you… a producer would be like, "What are you doing? Why are we doing this?"

38:31Geeta SinghYeah.

38:31Jawad MirYou know? It... But he pulled it off and it, and it worked.

38:34Geeta SinghYeah.

38:34Jawad MirIt worked really well.

38:36Geeta SinghYeah.

38:38Jawad MirAnything in... Well, what would you like to say to people who don't know about the Roshans or are on the fence about the Roshans, about watching the series? And what have you learned about them as just human beings, you know, just strictly human beings?

38:59Geeta SinghI think what comes across really well, and it is true, is that this family has done incredible work spanning, like, 70 years, but they remain humble about it. And l… literally, like, Roshan Saab's trait of being a quiet man and letting his work speak for itself has actually gone down all the generations. They are all like that. They do their work humbly. No one's blowing their trumpet. They, you know, it's there for everyone to see, like, dislike, whatever. It's all there. So that is something that there is humility in the family, and that comes a… comes across very clearly. And I would say that we are not great in this country in documenting history, so let's appreciate that. And Roshan Saab's work really needed to come out for people to know that all those lovely songs that you've enjoyed singing, listening to, have been done by this man.

40:11Geeta SinghSo there is a face and a name to all those songs, and appreciate that. A lot of people are saying, "Oh, it's not... It should be better balanced," and it's a, "It's all good" and "It's all praise." Yes. It's all good. It's praise. But what's wrong with that? Why do we always want to look for something negative?

40:33Jawad MirYeah, but there…

40:33Geeta SinghI'm weary from that

40:34Jawad Mir... There is, but there are vulnerabilities in there for each of them.

40:37Geeta SinghYeah, there are. There are.

40:38Jawad MirLike

40:38Geeta SinghYes, there are.

40:38Jawad MirRight?

40:39Geeta SinghOf course. And

40:40Jawad MirUnless they're looking for scandal, then that's a different story. Then you gotta watch…

40:43Geeta SinghYeah

40:43Jawad Mir... Paparazzi.

40:46Geeta SinghAnd of course, I mean, everybody has flaws, and you know, you make films that do well, don't do well. You make songs that, may be inspired from somewhere, but that's life. I don't think anything is original, honestly. We're all drawing from whatever we are seeing around us. Even you and I are talking is also something that I'm saying something I've also may have heard from somewhere and I'm, you know…

41:13Jawad MirYeah

41:14Geeta Singh... Putting it in and interpreting in my way. So what is original? So let... I mean, I'm just tired of seeing this thing of let's be balanced. No, let's enjoy things. Let the good come out. Why can't we have a nice happy series where people are talking nice things and saying good things about a family that's done incredible work? What's wrong with it? So I would say that, you know, make this your weekend watch. Sit back. It's nostalgic, and there's nothing wrong in nostalgia. It's lovely. We've just forgotten to really enjoy these things. We don't need, we don't need to be so negative and scandalous and looking for this mas… masala all the time. We don't need it.

41:55Jawad MirYeah.

41:56Geeta SinghI think we just…

41:56Jawad MirNo, I couldn't a…

41:57Geeta SinghYeah

41:57Jawad Mir... I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. And I think the great thing about this nostalgia thing is, I'll tell you, so I m… I may have spoken to you about this last time we spoke. I used to watch Bollywood or Indian cinema very much so. I think it kind of stopped in 2008.

42:16Geeta SinghOh.

42:16Jawad MirBecause for me, it was just like, I don't know if it was me, my evolvement as a human being or whatever as a filmmaker. I was just, whatever was coming out for me was not good enough. Like, it was just, it didn't m… it didn't have any purpose, it didn't have any story, everything. And then later in late 2018, 2019, I started seeing a lot of independent stuff sort of taking a surface at the mainstream level.

42:37Geeta SinghYeah.

42:37Jawad MirLike, good stories, meaningful stories But this and the last one, Angry Young Men, really reignited a lot of the stuff that, you know, you, a lot of us grew up with.

42:49Geeta SinghYeah.

42:49Jawad MirYou know, having cassettes and listening to the ra… Like, I... There were certain songs that reminded me of the cassette covers that I used to have. Listening to it a certain moment, at a certain place on radio, and all that stuff. So yeah, no, and if people want to watch something serious, there are so many other serious subjects out there. They can watch my documentaries. Mine are very serious and depressing.

43:15Geeta SinghYeah. I think just sit back, enjoy the music, learn something new that you may not know. And there's somebody who wrote that even for the biggest film buff, this series will give you something that you don't know.

43:27Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

43:28Geeta SinghSomething about each person, and that's, that's the takeaway. That you learn something, you'll enjoy it's entertaining. And why are we, afraid of entertainment? Hello, it's okay. It's okay to be entertained and sit back and... We all, we all say, "Oh, you know, there should be music in our lives." Yay. There you go. We're giving you plenty of music.

43:46Jawad MirYeah.

43:46Geeta SinghGo ahead, sit back with a cup of coffee with your family or alone or whatever, and just enjoy it. Tap your feet, get up and dance if you like.

43:56Jawad MirW… well, we're talking about documenting and, I'm hoping that this starts a trend, well, with Angry Young Men and this. I've,.. The Kapoors is a good topic to do. I mean, that's like…

44:11Geeta SinghI'm thinking it

44:11Jawad Mir... I would s… I think so too.

44:13Geeta SinghI'm thinking it.

44:14Jawad MirI'm sure.

44:14Geeta SinghYeah.

44:15Jawad MirThat's probably like a 10-part series because there are so many of them.

44:18Geeta SinghYeah, so many of them.

44:19Jawad MirRight? But what would you like to see if there was one particular, not necessarily work on, but see as a, as an audience?

44:31Geeta SinghI would like to see one on Abhishek Bachchan because I f…

44:40Jawad MirInteresting

44:40Geeta Singh... Yeah, I find it int… I find him interesting, and I find... I would like,.. Because I think of the name and of the family that he belongs to, there's so much that we know about Mr. Bachchan, Mr., his father, but not so much about him. And the whole thing of being his son, but finding your own path.

45:11Geeta SinghRight? It's hard, right? It's hard to match up and to live up to expectations that you may not have, but people have. People have those, right? That, "Hey, you know what? You're so and so's son." So, but you have to walk your own path, and that's... So for me, that would be really interesting. I would love to.

45:34Jawad MirAnd I was talking about this with somebody a few weeks ago, and I was telling them that if you watch any of his interviews, even in this one, The Rooshans, there's just something in his eyes, right? Like, it's just like, it's not like asking for validation, but it's like frustration, but hard work, gratitude, but just unhappy. I, at least for me, that's how I see him.

46:02Geeta SinghOh, interesting. So many mixed emotions because it's…

46:04Jawad MirYeah

46:04Geeta Singh... You can only imagine how hard it must have been.

46:07Jawad MirYeah.

46:07Geeta SinghI mean, it's like, I mean, I don't even, I don't think we even know what... So that's one thing, to know that side. That what was that personal journey, professional journey belonging to that family, having, the weight of that surname, and yet marking your own, charting your own road.

46:29Jawad MirIt's interesting because him and Kareena Kapoor, they starred in the same film to…

46:32Geeta Singhhuh

46:32Jawad Mir... Debuted in the same film together, Refugee, right?

46:34Geeta SinghRefugee.

46:35Jawad MirAnd her career went in a different direction than his did, not because one's better, but there's the amount of pressure he had versus her. Completely different. Would you wanna do another series like this as an editor, or you wanna take a little break, or you don't wanna say any of that?

46:53Geeta SinghNo, I mean, I enjoy, I enjoy, this space a lot, though I do feel that it needs, if there was another one to be made on anybody, whatever, it needs a different, approach.

47:09Jawad MirOkay.

47:09Geeta SinghSo this same thing of, like, having a lot of the industry people speak about it and then you know, intercut it with archive and film and... You need to break that because there would be some amount of audience exhaustion as well, you know, viewing ex… exhaustion. Because ultimately it'll be the same people you will interview because they are the people also that will draw, right? So there's a star value to that. But then how much of it will you keep doing? So what's the freshness? So if something were to come my way in this space, it's going to need a rethink of how to make it, you know, yet not another one and, just cut through the space and make its own, I mean, just stand out as something.

48:05Jawad MirYeah, no, I get it. It makes sense. That would, yeah, that would, that makes sense completely. I did feel that because I'd seen Angry Young Men. I mean, whenever I saw Javed Akhtar come on and I felt like I was taken…

48:17Geeta SinghYeah.

48:17Jawad Mir... I was taken back to that series.

48:19Geeta SinghSo imagine how I felt when I was taken back.

48:21Jawad MirYeah, I'm sure.

48:24Geeta SinghOkay. And a lot of the people were common, right? Not a lot, but there were some common people between them all.

48:29Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

48:29Geeta SinghBut, yeah.

48:30Jawad MirWell, it was, what's her name? The screenwriter. I think it was Javed Akhtar's, first wife, was it?

48:35Geeta SinghHoney. Honey Irani.

48:36Jawad MirHoney. Honey Irani. Yeah, I think she was in there too, yeah.

48:39Geeta SinghYeah.

48:39Jawad MirYeah.

48:40Geeta SinghFaran, Zoya, and yeah.

48:42Jawad MirOf course. Amazing. Awesome. Well, anything else you wanna add? Anything I forgot? Anything I overlooked to ask you, or you wanna say?

48:51Geeta SinghNo, I think we covered it all. And, just, yeah, for those who haven't watched it, Rooshans is your weekend watch. Please go ahead and enjoy the music and, yeah.

49:05Jawad MirYeah. No, amazing.

49:07Geeta SinghWe don't know, yeah, "" so yeah.

49:10Jawad MirTrue. True. Well, The Rooshans, for the audience, The Rooshans is on, Netflix worldwide, correct? I'm assuming.

49:17Geeta SinghYes.

49:17Jawad MirAnd it's four-part episode series, and it's worth watching. Probably take three and a half hours of your time, maybe max four with some breaks, but totally worth watching.

49:28Geeta SinghGreat. Lovely.

49:28Jawad MirThank you so much, Geeta.

49:29Geeta SinghThank you, Jabber. Thank you so much.

49:32Jawad MirThank you again, and we'll look forward to chatting with you again, I'm sure, on another project sooner than later.

49:37Geeta SinghInshallah.

49:38Jawad MirInshallah. All right.

49:39Geeta SinghBye.

49:39Jawad MirTake care. Bye, Geeta. Bye.