'India vs Pakistan, The Greatest Rivalry', Line Producer, Taha Sadaqat

0:09Jawad MirWelcome back, everyone, to another episode of Kingdom of Dreams Podcast: The Making of Stories. I'm your host, Jawwad Mir. Today's guest is Taha Sadaqat, who served as a line producer on The Greatest Rivalry: India vs. Pakistan Netflix series. It was a really fun-packed conversation about Taha's journey of how he got to be where he is and all the success that he has achieved and he's still at it, and we talked about, Shoaib Akhtar. We talked about the behind the scene making of the series in Pakistan since he was part of that. Without further ado, here is my conversation with Taha Sadaqat for The Greatest Rivalry: India vs. Pakistan. I had a pleasure of speaking to Stuart Sugg, who directed, The Greatest Rivalry: India vs. Pakistan, a few days ago, and, it was… And just to, you know, re-experiencing a lot of the cricket, times from the mid-2000s, like when the series happened was…

1:05Taha SadaqatYeah

1:05Jawad Mir... I understand you were a big part of it. So tell me what was your role on the series first and before we get into deeper t-the things.

1:12Taha SadaqatSo I basically produced the whole, Pakistan shoot

1:17Jawad MirOkay

1:17Taha Sadaqat... Which was obviously a big part of, the whole thing if you've seen, the documentary.

1:23Jawad MirYep. I have.

1:23Taha SadaqatSo from conducting the interviews, obviously because of, language barriers Stuart had with a couple of cricketers obviously, In-Inzamam was obviously s… doing his interview in Urdu. Javed bhai was doing his interview in Urdu. So I was actually conducting those interviews, as well as putting up the whole shoot. I was the line producer. So

1:47Taha Sadaqat... And the production head of the project here. So literally putting up the whole production, I was doing that, as well as on the shoot I was, I was doing a lot of script work as well, because wherever there was Urdu stuff required, so I would just help out Stuart with a lot of those things. So yeah, that was, that was my main role. Get… putting up a whole production and then, coordinating with the talent and then shooting with them. You know, the equipment that was required, drones, cameras, lighting, everything. So just putting everything together according to Netflix's requirement, which are very, which are very strict about, ab-about their requirements they are pretty strict. So arranging all of that. So yeah, it was... That was my role with the documentary.

2:39Jawad MirAwesome. Was it the first time you were involved in a production like this or any production?

2:43Taha SadaqatNo, actually I have also co-produced a film with Ali Zafar called Tifa in Trouble.

2:50Jawad MirOkay

2:50Taha Sadaqat... Which was also on Netflix but it was not a Netflix original. It was a theatrical release in Pakistan and then it was, it was sold to Netflix as well. So I had produced that. It was shot in Poland and Pakistan. So I was involved with a lot of work, in that film as well. I produce a lot of commercials, so that obviously, that's one aspect of my career. I do talent management and then I have a PR company and I also, do productions. So TV commercials, we sh… we shoot a lot of stuff in Bangkok, Turkey, Dubai. So yeah.

3:26Jawad MirGreat stuff. And how is your involvement with, the cricket worlds and Shoaib Akhtar and Inzamam, and Miandad and all those people? Like, how did that sort of came about? If you're already in production, what's the bridge that connects you those two worlds?

3:42Taha SadaqatI would still say that my forte is talent management. And, to be very precise, I would say celebrity management because I've only worked with big stars in Pakistan. So I was managing Ali Zafar. That's when he, th-this is… we're talking about 2017-ish. I was already managing him for about three years at that time. So a-around 27… 2016, 2017, suddenly, Bollywood completely closed for Pakistani talent and, in fact nobody has been able to go back to India since then. The, October 2016 was the last time I went there. Before that I was a very frequent visitor. So was Ali, and so was Shoaib, and so was Wasim Akram and all these, popular Pakistani celebrities.

4:30Taha Sadaqat... So at that point when India closed, that's when, Ali Zafar decided to, make a film. And being his manager at that time, he also, you know, offered me to get on as a producer and, that seemed something very interesting because I had done a couple of productions before in terms of commercials. So you know, commercial is obviously one or a two-day work. Film is, it has a massive scale. But, I jumped in and, it was amazing. I had also done internship on a Hollywood project before that, so I had some sort of production on knowledge in terms of movies as well.

5:13Jawad MirGreat. Tell me, tell me a little bit about yourself, Taha, in terms of your origin story. Like how did this all start? Like what inspired you to get into talent management slash production, whether it was 10 years ago or 20 years ago? What was the catalyst that changed everything for you to be where you are today?

5:35Taha SadaqatI started, in 2007. That's when I was, I was still studying actually, and, I was ma… I was ma… studying at Government College Lahore. It's a very… ... It's a prestigious university which actually has been used in the, in the documentary as well. Shoaib Akhtar was, a… and even in Zamam's interview was shot in Government College.

5:59Taha SadaqatSo that was obviously a kind of a tribute to my alma mater as well that I shot there. So yeah, I was studying at Government College back then. It was... I was doing my master's, and I used to do... I used to organize, one concert every year in Government College, and nothing more than that was allowed at Government College because, concerts are obviously messy, and Government College had its own traditions and all, everything. So I was somebody who brought back concerts to Government College after 20-year ban. Like, Government College banned concerts in two thou… in 1984. So in 2004, I went up to the vice chancellor at the time, and requested him that we wanted to do a concert, and he was like, "It hasn't happened in 20 years." It was, it was banned during the Jamaat times in, you know, '80s when Jamaat had a big ho-hold in universities in, i… in Pakistan, and particularly Lahore and Karachi. So I requested him and, you know, it was, it was nice of him.

7:02Taha SadaqatDr. Khalid Aftab, who was our vice chancellor at that time, he said that, "How are you gonna ensure that there's gonna be discipline?" So I was like, I somehow just committed that even a flower pot will not be broken. You know, the...

7:19Jawad MirYeah

7:19Taha Sadaqat... This is what I said to him. And, God w… Allah was kind enough that, you know, I was able to pull it off. So that was my first year. Then there was another year, and then on my last year, I wanted to bring an international act, and, there was a band called Josh at the time, which was very popular. They had just, collaborated with Nelly Furtado and, did a few remixes for them. It was a Toronto, Montreal-based band actually.

7:44Taha SadaqatThey then, I reached out to them through Shafqat Amanat Ali, who was, who was a good friend. So he had just performed with them in Kolkata in a concert. So I... He had mentioned in one of our conversations that, "I know those boys." So I just asked him that, requested him if he can get in touch, and because remember, it's 2007. Co… commu… communication is still not that amazing, and you need to need, you need to have a contact who could, you, who you trust to connect you with artists and whatnot. So I connected with them. Long story short, I brought them to Pakistan. They did a concert in Government College, and wh… just before leaving, they just offered me their management. They said that, "Pakistan is a great market for concerts, and we want to perform here more. This is our first time here, but we want to do more." So I was like, "How do you manage, a band?" They're like, "Just don't worry about it. The, we have a website. We'll put your number on it and your email, and, you'll start getting requests, and, this is how it's gonna start."

8:51Taha SadaqatAnd that's how it started. And before I knew, I was deep into it. I, went to a Euro tour with them in 2008 because Nelly Furtado was touring in Europe, and, she wanted Josh to be on that tour, performing remixes, the remixes they did with them. So it was a 35-concert tour of Europe, and this is how I literally got myself trained. My first exposure to, this sort of work was international, and Nelly Furtado used to travel in her own plane with a crew of 35, and all of these things were very fascinating. But, a very early exposure to all of this was amazing for me. And, you know, that's when then, you know, I kept doing other things, and then Ali Zafar came in the picture. I got an offer from him, and then I started going to India for Bollywood. And, you know, things kept rolling, and, here we are today. I was able to produce Pakistan's first Netflix original.

9:56Jawad MirGood stuff. Great story. I enjoyed it. Really awesome. It's good to see that your journey has been very interesting, and with, you know, with all the, chances that you got, you grabbed them.

10:07Taha SadaqatThe interesting aspect of this is that my family background had nothing to do with entertainment. My father's a doctor. I have three sisters who are all doctors. I have a brother who's a psychologist. So nobody was in entertainment and is not till even now.

10:28Jawad MirYeah.

10:28Taha SadaqatSo yeah, it was a, it was a battle I had to fight. And, so I was somehow in my head, I just thought that I cannot fail this. It takes you further, and then obviously, then success is your only option. Otherwise, there's, there's so much pressure around you that you, if you've chosen a path of your own, then you can't fail, and I think this is what kept me going. And, although I just kind of feel that I did not put a lot of undue pressure on myself, I just wanted to keep doing what I'm doing. And I'm not the kind of person who makes five-year plans or 10-year plans or 15-year plans. And, when I used to say this 10, 15 years ago, people used to find it very odd, but now the world is coming to terms with that it's, it's okay if you don't have a five-year plan.

11:28Taha SadaqatYou can just, you know, short-term goals... And then obviously, Allah Ta'ala ne humein zindagi di hai aur humein nahi pata ki woh kab humse ye le lega. Toh itne bade plans shayad nahi banane chahiye. You can just, you know, keep making short-term plans, keep doing good work, and, live the life to its fullest. I think that's, that's what my goal has been. I mean, I, my m… when I started working out, my initial excitement was that I'm gonna travel the world, and I think that's,.. I'm gonna travel the world and not pay for it, you know? So that was the initial excitement.

12:10Jawad MirYep. Yep.

12:10Taha SadaqatAnd, this is what I'm doing till now. It's 17 years, I've seen the whole world and, n… never a moment of regret in my whole career.

12:20Jawad MirThat is,.. It's funny you mentioned that, 'cause I was having a conversation with my DP, my cinematographer, and he and I have... Good friends too. We've known each other for a good 20 years, and we talk about the same thing that, you know, aside from telling stories that we wanna tell, the films that we wanna make, which is something that we love, we enjoy, but it's also work. One of the biggest perks is we get to travel the world without…

12:45Taha SadaqatYeah

12:45Jawad Mir... Paying a penny for it, but instead getting paid for it, right? That's the most…

12:49Taha SadaqatYeah

12:49Jawad Mir... Incredible thing.

12:50Taha SadaqatYeah.

12:51Jawad MirYeah.

12:51Taha SadaqatAnd then my, h… honestly, the travel I've done within the country is equally important for me what I've done outside Pakistan. The places, the kind of places I've been to in Pakistan, you'll be amazed to hear, and, you would probably love to do that at some point because, you know, obviously when I was managing Josh and then when I was managing Ali Zafar, we would do a lot of concerts and we would travel around for concerts. So I've been to places like, Sukkur, Hyderabad, Tharki, Rahim Yar Khan, Quetta, Sibi, Peshawar obviously, Gujranwala, Gujarat, because we did this... The, there used to be a, the... It still is actually. There's a college called Punjab Group of Colleges in Punjab, and they have, like, 64 campuses all over Punjab. So every year they book one artist and they take them to 64 campuses and they perform there. So I did that once with Ali Zafar and once with Josh.

13:52Taha SadaqatNow imagine, the amount of Punjab I've seen at that time. And then I've been to Gilgit-Sk… Gilgit-Baltistan, I've been to Kashmir. So I've seen, like, Pakistan in depth and I'm, I'm very glad that I'm, I'm, I've been able to get those opportunities where I've done this. Even go… have gone up to Gwadar, Turbat, the places you may not had to have heard the names of.

14:20Jawad MirYeah

14:21Taha Sadaqat... Travel is not just going to all fancy…

14:24Jawad MirYeah

14:24Taha Sadaqat... The world. It's just…

14:25Jawad MirYeah

14:26Taha Sadaqat... The travel I've gotten, in this, in, within Pakistan because of my work opportunities, I'm so glad I got those.

14:34Jawad MirWhat did you think of Sibi and Gilgit and Quetta? I've been to Sib… I mean, I've traveled all over Pakistan too. This was long time ago, but what did you think of Sibi and

14:43Taha SadaqatSo, s… so I've been to Sibi once, which is, I think, 2016 it was. So you'll be... It's a very interesting story you would love to hear that…

14:51Jawad MirPlease

14:52Taha Sadaqat... In Sibi there is a s… there's a Mela that happens every year, around February, around this time actually. Somewhere around this time. And it has been happening since, the 15th century in…

15:07Jawad MirWow

15:07Taha Sadaqat... Since the 15th century. So in those days when it used to happen, there used to be, some sort of music that used to happen every year in the Sibi Mela. And then there's a big fort there called Chakre Azam Fort. And…

15:22Taha Sadaqat... This Mela happens around very close to that place. So it evolved from being a, like, a village thing to now in 2016, artists performing there on a stage, and pro…, the crowd fa… crowd is there and enjoying the musical performances. And they, when they come to the music performances, they all bring their cattles, like their cow or their goat or their, you know, whatever cattle they have. So they brought those to the concert, and the artists were performing on stage while people were enjoying and having a great time in the, off stage with their, with their cattle around. So it was a, it was a very historical piece of knowledge I got when I, and I went there. Gilgit-Baltistan…

16:12Jawad MirI mean, yeah

16:12Taha Sadaqat... Khubsoorat hi bahut hai yaar. Gilgit-Baltistan se toh…

16:15Jawad MirOh, yeah

16:15Taha Sadaqat... You know, different.

16:16Jawad MirGilgit, I spent, maybe when I was, like, five to seven years of age, and I still remember Gilgit very clearly. Skardu, Gilgit, Hunza. But going back to Sibi, I had a question. So, and I don't really follow a lot of, Pakistan other than cricket, just because I've been here for a long time. My family, they will watch Pakistani dramas. I used to be a huge fan of Pakistani dramas in the '80s and the '90s. I don't anymore, because every time I pass by, all it is about is, like, family drama, family politics…

16:51Taha SadaqatYeah

16:51Jawad Mir... At least, right? So one of the things that Coke Studio has done, it just shows all these cultures. Like, you know, in Urdu you say the word akasi, right? Why are we not in Pakistan... Like, the Sibi thing that you said, right? Like, that's like a, that could be like a documentary series. That could be a documentary.

17:12Taha Sadaqat100%.

17:12Jawad MirLike, why aren't those... There's so many stories aside from your, you know, household family drama, which is not life. That's not the only part of life. There's so much more. Why are they not being highlighted in Pakistan? Why are they not being shown? Because art's is supposed to do that.

17:30Taha SadaqatThere's a very sa… sad response to what you have just asked, and that is if you ask this to any director, producer, or a TV channel, they will say, "This is what people see." And how they get away with this, that this is what they want to see, that's why we don't make anything else. But it's the other way around.

17:49Jawad MirIt is.

17:50Taha SadaqatShow better things and they will learn to watch better things. You show…

17:55Jawad MirThe way... Yeah. Go on.

17:58Taha SadaqatYou show them what you, what's convenient for you, these daily life stories where sass is killing the bahu and bahu…

18:05Jawad MirYeah

18:05Taha Sadaqat... Is killing the sass and they set each other on fire, stuff like that. This is what they think and they say that this is what people want to watch. That's not true. I don't watch dramas because I don't wanna watch this. If there's something good that comes up, I will watch it.

18:21Jawad MirI dis… I respectfully disagree because I think there's a bigger p… percentage of the population out there in every part of the world who are craving for the key word, great stories with great characters. It doesn't matter where they come from. As long as you have a strong story, right?

18:55Taha SadaqatYeah.

18:55Jawad MirOne of the things is, like, if you look at Hollywood, if you look at, India, if you look at Pakistan doesn't have the special effects that Hollywood does, but they show the glamorous life, right? Like, you know, big house, okay, everybody's, like, fully dressed and all that stuff. India is in a similar way, like, you know, big location, dance performances and everything. But the c… nobody remembers that stuff. What kind of stuff do you remember? Like, I'll tell you, right, Khuda Ke Liye, right, Shoaib Mansoor. Bol. You remember movies like, Godfather, Jurassic Park. Like, stuff like that has strong story and characters. They were…

19:31Taha SadaqatYeah

19:31Jawad Mir... All, they're, these are all different films. Nobody touches them, right? And why? Because audience doesn't know what they want until you introduce them to what they want. And if the story and the characters are good…

19:44Taha SadaqatYeah

19:44Jawad Mir... It'll hit.

19:46Taha SadaqatDefinitely. Definitely. I mean, this brings us back to India versus Pakistan, the greatest rivalry. I mean, that's the thing. When we started discussing this project, the whole idea was that this needs to be told to the world that this is not just the biggest rivalry in the cricketing world. This is the, this is the biggest sporting rivalry in the world, where, you know, you have your, Rafael Nadal versus Roger Federer. You have your Manchester United versus Chelsea and all of those. But I personally feel this is bigger than all of that. The eyeballs this attracts, it's, it's unmatchable. You can't, you can't compare it with anything.

20:31Jawad MirYeah. No, I agree. I mean, I, you know, watch cricket. I don't watch the series and stuff, but just maybe tournaments, but I'll watch Pakistan games, but the one that I would, like, literally sit down and not do anything else is India and Pakistan. And I mean, I cheer for, you know, I admire Indian players a lot, like Virat Kohli, and, you know, there's some great talent there. And sometimes I feel for their, when they're getting beaten, you know, hit, but I'm cheering for my team, and it's definitely the biggest, I think, the sporting event that nobody talks about. And I'm so glad that you guys made the series on it, even though it was kinda like, you know, most of the stuff that I knew at least beforehand, but still just to see it in a series for the world to experience is amazing, and I'm glad that you guys did. And I hope there's more cricket series being worked on. I was actually telling Stuart I…

21:24Taha SadaqatAnd I think the saddest thing is that it's been 17 years India and Pakistan have not played a test match. It's something that needs to be thought about. We only play each other in global tournaments. Other than that, there's no bilateral series, and there hasn't been a test match in 17 years. That's something... I've grown up watching India versus Pakistan.

21:51Taha SadaqatEven then, there used to be big breaks in test cricket. Pakistan and India from 1978, from 1989 to '99, for 10 years they did not play test cricket.

22:04Jawad MirYeah, I remember.

22:04Taha SadaqatAnd then Pakistan went on to play an amazing series, which was the birth of Shoaib Akhtar, '99. Then India came to Pakistan after, what, 15 years in 2004, which is the series we covered in the documentary. And then 2006 was an amazing series where Asif was, Mohammad Asif was born in the, on that Karachi wicket, where, you know, which was a surprisingly, a wicket where, Irfan Pathan started the match…

22:30Jawad MirFlat pitch. Yeah

22:31Taha Sadaqat... It was, Irfan Pathan started the match with three wickets, and then Asif…

22:35Jawad MirI remember that

22:35Taha Sadaqat... Took over. And then Pakistan went back to India in 2007 and ba… and played a test series and ODIs. So people were, people thought that back to back series is gonna take the interest away from that. No. Every time Pakistan would play India, there was interest, there was, there was, there were eyeballs. And now look at this, 17 years we haven't played in whites, with each other.

23:03Jawad MirYeah. No, I agree. I agree. But, it's, it's, it's interesting because, I mean, there's so much politics that we can dive into, but, I mean, the series kinda touches upon that anyway, so I'll let people see that. Let's, let's talk a little bit about, if you don't mind, and please tell me right n… right away if it's, something too much. You know, you talked about your sisters being doctors, your brother being a psychologist, and, you know, being a South Asian household coming into the arts, and, obviously there was resistance, you know, to some extent…

23:38Taha SadaqatYeah

23:38Jawad Mir... If not a lot. What, how did you… How did you cultivate your way through that, you know, trying to deal with all that pressure? And if there was, I mean, in some families there's a lot, in some families there's not. So it's just minimal. So what was that like?

23:57Taha SadaqatUgh. I think as I told you before, my way of dealing with it was that in my mind somewhere I had just decided that this is what I'm gonna do, and I'm gonna get success in this, and that's m… that's gonna be my only answer. That's the time when my friends were doing day jobs, going to the offices, or going looking for opportunities outside Pakistan and move… moving abroad, while I was struggling with i… you know, struggling as a manager of a music band. That's how I started. I was just managing the band Josh, and that was,.. It wasn't, it wasn't a very household name, the band, at that time. It was popular, but it was not, it was not a household name where if you tell somebody that this is what I do, and they would know.

25:01Taha SadaqatAnd, with family and then with relatives, and the kind of questions I u… I used to face were…

25:08Jawad MirLike what? Like what? Like what?

25:11Taha SadaqatBelieve it or not, until last year, my, one of my relatives, my da… my father's brother, he, every time he has met me in the last 17 years, he always used to ask me in Punjabi, Like, I don't know if you understand Punjabi or not.

25:31Jawad MirI understand it. I understand it.

25:33Taha SadaqatYeah. So after…

25:35Jawad MirYeah

25:36Taha Sadaqat... 17 years, last year when he said this, I said to him, I responded and I said, "Chacha, this is not my problem now, this is your problem." This was my response, and I don't think it was a rude response. But every time he used to ask, I used to explain, But last year when this happened, I had kind of... I was kind of done with it. So when he asked me this, then I said, "This is actually not my problem. This is your problem that you don't know. Go ask your kids who are young. They will know what I do." Because what I do is pretty glamorous and, your kids are my fans. Like my cousins, they all look up to me because of the kind of work I do. Because they are all involved in family business and, some sort of other thing which for a lot of them is boring now. You know, you go to an office every day, you do morning to evening, you come back. So they kind of all look up to me because I have this life where I travel, where I meet the...

26:37Taha SadaqatI work with celebrities. If I'm not working with celebrities, I'm meeting other celebrities. If I've met a Shah Rukh Khan or if I've met an Akshay Kumar or, if I've met a Jason Derulo or Shaggy, you know. I've, I've met all these people in different, during different projects. So that's where I kinda said that, you know, "Go ask your kids what I do. They will probably tell you." You know, it's, it's... It was like that. But, I think I've dealt with all of this with a lot of patience, over the years. It... Now I've started being a little, you know, because I think I've worked really hard for all these years to be where I am today. So now I kinda, you know, my responses may sometimes be not very polite, but, all my initial years I was just That was it. That kept me going. There were times I was being told that, "You haven't done anything. Your friends are doing this, your...

27:38Taha SadaqatOther people are doing this." I was like, "It's okay. It will come for me as well, and I just have to keep, doing what I do. That's it."

27:47Jawad MirIt's one thing you said that I was talking to somebody else about this recently. You know, I think people in our field, we have this path that, you know, everybody thinks that where you are today is, like, a snap, right? Like, only we know about the struggles that we went through. Everybody goes through struggle in life. Everybody. When people are enjoying at the time when you are killing yourself trying to be somebody or trying to... The key is the long-term goal, right? Like now what you just said, I say the exact same thing. Like, the things that people use to make, you know, comments about me, what I was doing, I'm su… like you said yourself, too, is that those same people, which I have not in touch with, I would see it on my social media, "Oh, it's great to see that you're still doing the same thing 30 years," you know. And I, well, I could s… feel in this post the guys are... They're stuck in nine-to-five job and they can't stand it.

28:42Taha SadaqatYeah.

28:42Jawad MirAnd I think that's the key.

28:44Taha SadaqatYeah.

28:44Jawad MirLike, you, if you wanna have that long term, like, you have to suffer first, or you can enjoy it first and then suffer later.

28:51Taha SadaqatJust coming back to what you were just saying, I would like to correct the fa… correct you here that when you say that while we were out there killing ourselves and they were enjoying, I would say that I was enjoying every moment of what I was doing.

29:06Jawad MirYeah. No.

29:07Taha SadaqatI was not making a lot of money, but…

29:09Jawad MirNo. I know. When I say…

29:11Taha SadaqatYeah

29:11Jawad Mir... Killing ourselves, I... Obviously, if you're not, if you won't be killing yourself, you have to enjoy it. Like, that's, that's the way you look at it. But we're working…

29:19Taha SadaqatThat's the only way that what keeps you going.

29:22Jawad MirWhat I meant was, like, we're not going to the parties, we're not going hanging out with friends. We're... Like, that's what I meant, right? Like, you have to enjoy what you do, otherwise you have... It's not gonna work. It's just not gonna work.

29:33Taha SadaqatYeah. The, what I was trying to explain is that the kind of work I had, I was traveling all the time. I was, meeting new people. I was, I was out partying as well, to be very honest. If I, if I am traveling to, a… as a 25-year-old, if I'm traveling to Dubai and London and New York for concerts, of course I'm having a good time. I mean, obviously there's nothing to hide there.

29:57Jawad MirYeah.

29:59Taha SadaqatI may not have been making good money at that time, which my other friends were making, but I think they were out there killing themselves. I was not. I was, I was having a great time, and in the process, I was growing as well, with the hope that I will make it. While at it, the... I was having a blast. It was, you know…

30:22Jawad MirYeah. No. I get it, man. I get it. I think it's really important to... I s… I tell this to my kids, too, is like, "I don't care what you do, just love what you do, because everything else will automatically become easy for you, and the money will come in anyways." It's just the way it is.

30:38Taha SadaqatYeah.

30:38Jawad MirRight?

30:38Taha SadaqatYeah.

30:38Jawad MirIt's just... 'Cause you're chasing money, you're gonna get money for a limited amount of time, and then it's, you're gonna be unhappy. So, which life do you wanna have, right?

30:46Taha SadaqatI think…

30:46Jawad MirBut when you…

30:47Taha Sadaqat... At a very young age, probably 2008 or '9, like, maybe two years into my career, I read somewhere a quote, that if you give 20,000 hours to something, you're bound to get success in it. So, that also kinda stuck with me. You know…

31:04Jawad MirYeah

31:05Taha Sadaqat... I made those calculations. How many are 20,000 hours and how long it's gonna be, but I think it's still in my head, what I read somewhere at that time. And, I kinda started focusing on the fact that, okay, take this much I'm gonna give to this what… whatever I want to do in life. I'm gonna give 20,000 hours to this, and, i… it kinda worked. And, you know, some things just stay with you. This is one of those things which I read, and it stayed with me.

31:35Jawad MirYeah. That's true. What's, what's one part of you... I mean, you were in the world, you know, in the, in the film world, in the entertainment world, there's a lot of, you know, it's a lot of PR. You have to be in a certain way. You have to present yourself in a certain way. For the lack of better word, I'm not suggesting you, but just in the, in the field, sometimes you have to be not real. A lot of people are not real, right? But mo… some people are. Like, for example, Shoaib Akhtar, at least from what I can gather, he seems pretty raw as it is. You know, what you see is what you get. How do you... What's the one thing from that world that's out there that, let's call it's not real, because everybody is sort of in it for themselves, versus the world that kind of the opposite world, which could be, like, the calmness, the rea… reality. What is that world like for you? Like, what keeps you grounded and keeps you simple, for the lack of better word? Is it your family? Is it your friends?

32:36Jawad MirIs…

32:37Taha SadaqatI think it's... I would have a very simple answer to this. I am not somebody who gets recognized on the street, you know? I,.. So that's what keeps me grounded. I see celebrities who get recognized on the street. They are the ones who a lot of times become stubborn or sometimes they, you know, th… they need to make sure that they stay grounded in some way or the other, because I can... A… I've been around those people, but I haven't been that person. I've been... I've, I've traveled the world with Ali Zafar. I've traveled the world with Shoaib Akhtar. I've been, around Wasim Akram, A… Aatif Aslam, all these, Fawad Khan, for that matter. Like, all these people, I have worked with them in some capacity or the other, either long-term or just for a short project. So, I've seen how things happen with them in terms of fan moments. So, obviously, I'm not some… somebody who comes on screen, so I don't get recognized on the street. So, I think that is something which I

33:43Jawad MirNo. I know. I know that, but I, what I meant was is that, you know, like, okay, so I don't, I don't get starstruck, right? I do not get starstruck. I couldn't care less who it is. It just doesn't get to me. Maybe because I'm immune to it, just like you are. But…

33:58Taha SadaqatBut probably now. Not in the beginning. I used to get starstruck in the beginning. The first time I saw Akshay Kumar, I was starstruck. I was two and a half years into my career. I saw Akshay Kumar. There was, that was my first big Bollywood celebrity, exposure, and I couldn't move. I was like, "Wow, that is a..." When I first saw Shah Rukh Khan for first, second year in my career, third year, I similar... I got excited. I, when I first saw Nelly Furtado, I got excited. So yeah, that was the time. But obviously now I'm immune to it. I've worked with so many of them. I've been around so many of them. A lot of them are my friends. So now even a big Hollywood celebrity even comes in front of me, I don't get excited like that. Yeah.

34:41Jawad MirBut how do you... So, okay. So I know the answer, but I'm just asking for the audience, is that how do you... Aside from not being recognized, right? Like, sometimes, you know, even people in our age, small percentage, it gets things to people's head. Right?

35:01Taha SadaqatYeah.

35:01Jawad MirIt's just the reality. Sometimes peop… you know, it ge… it gets to your head. What... Has there been ever a time with you in the last five years or two years where even, like, for a slightest of second, where you go into that world, and then you pull yourself out of it? Like, has that ever happened?

35:18Taha SadaqatUgh. Probably. It does happen sometimes, and honestly, it happens when sometimes you, as a celebrity manager, sometimes you get those calls which are very, you know, unnecessary, and they have nothing to do with your work. So, it kinda annoys you that, "Why is this person calling me?" A random person will call…

35:40Jawad MirLike what? If you don't mind.

35:42Taha SadaqatLike a person would call and…

35:42Jawad MirWithout naming names

35:43Taha Sadaqat... Yeah, a person would call and say that, "I'm a fast bowler. I want to meet Shoaib Akhtar. Please make sure that I meet."

35:50Jawad MirOh.

35:51Taha SadaqatThey would call three times a day. So that's when, you know, first I s… used to get a little jittery on these things, but then I s… kinda started just…... Blocking. And I was like, "I don't have to r… be rude with them. I could just, you know, after one call I can just tell them it's, it's not happening or it's not possible." And then after the call I would just block them. I have a block list of, I don't know, 1,200 people on my, on my phone because, same u… things used to happen when I was working with Ali Zafar. There was a lot of fan calls. So yes, I sometimes would get rude because, they're not my fans. They're fans of a certain celebrity, and they want me to facilitate a random meetup, and I would feel that this is a waste of my time. So sometimes I would get rude, but then I would tell myself that I shouldn't be doing this. Or sometimes work opportunities which are not worth my time, I feel, I sometimes used to deal with them not in a nice way.

36:52Taha SadaqatBut then I realized that person, You know, that sort of thing. So I think it's a process. You... Some days you have that head, and then most days I think I handle it in a better way.

37:19Jawad MirI can see why you are managing Shoaib Akhtar, because you have a similar personality. What's... What do you want to do that's not done? It doesn't have to be professional. It can be personal. Or, I don't like to go into personal stuff, but if you wanna share, feel free to.

37:40Taha SadaqatAs I said, I'm not that much of a planner. I…

37:43Jawad MirNo. Not planning. I know that. But what is one thing in life that you want to do that you haven't done? It is not about tomo… It's not about 10 years from now. It could be tomorrow.

37:53Taha SadaqatI just don't think that way. I don't operate that way. I see life as it comes. And, I have very short-term goals. Yeah, w… I have to go there, I have to see this place, I have to... Like, everywhere in the world I go, I have friends in different cities now. So I go there and I make sure that I meet my friends. So there's nothing... Or maybe there are things which I want to do and they're not coming in my head right now, because obviously you've just asked me something and I haven't thought about it. But I'm sure there are.

38:26Jawad MirIt's okay.

38:27Taha SadaqatI'm sure there are. Yeah.

38:29Jawad MirWhat excites you besides work? What do you do? Like, do you read? Food?

38:36Taha SadaqatI used to read a lot. I kind of stopped that after I got married, I think. I used to get, have,.. So by the way, I got married a little late in my life. I got married at 37. So I had…

38:51Jawad MirOkay

38:51Taha Sadaqat... I had... I was working before that. I wanted to reach certain goals, certain financial goals, certain household goals that I wanted to achieve before I get married. So I got married a little late. That also kind of made me very used to, single life. And by single life, I meant that I was not married. I was dating or I was not dating, but I was, you know, going through that process. So I used to get time to watch movies. I used to get time to read. Even now I read w… during flights. I love those long 16-hour flights from Dubai to Dallas or Dubai to Toronto. I have one rule in my life which I have given myself: Never connect to Wi-Fi when you're on a flight. So I will never connect to the rest of the world when I'm on a flight. So I would either read, I would watch a movie. That's, that's my time when,.. A… and then other than that, I just love to spend time with my family.

39:51Taha SadaqatMy... I have a two-year-old who just walked in, who just walked in while we were talking. So yeah, that's, that is him. And

40:03Jawad MirAs-salaam-alaikum

40:05Taha SadaqatI may not be able to read a lot now, but, because ve… whatever time I have other than work, that is for him and his mother. Yeah.

40:13Jawad MirWhat's his, what's his name?

40:15Taha SadaqatHis name is Ashmeer, and he's gonna be turning two next month.

40:20Jawad MirMashallah. That's great. That's good. It's amazing, what kids do to you. I mean, I was talking to you for the last, what, 45 minutes, and your persona completely changed as soon as he walked in.

40:37Taha SadaqatYeah.

40:38Jawad MirYou became, you know, like a fa… Obviously it's a natural thing. We all go through that. I think I've done that many times, too. That's amazing, man. Are you excited about, the thing... Okay, so let me ask you this. So Netflix in India has become really big, right? And I was... I... Being in Toronto, I talked to a few directors, and being in States as well sometimes, it's like Netflix is now just, there's this market that's very hungry, which is Pakistan, right?

41:08Taha SadaqatYeah.

41:08Jawad MirThe... And I would love to see that because, I mean, I can think of so many stories that you can do, not just…

41:14Taha SadaqatHold on for a second. Let me, let me just…

41:16Jawad MirYeah. Sure.

41:20Taha SadaqatYeah. Sorry.

41:33Jawad MirYeah. Yeah

41:34Taha Sadaqat... You were talking about how Pakistan, hasn't been able to do a lot of Netflix.

41:38Jawad MirYeah. Do you think that, do you think that's gonna happen soon? Because I think it's, it's absolutely necessary for... Arts and culture change the world, right? Like, it changes the perception of the people.

41:49Taha SadaqatYeah.

41:49Jawad MirDo you see that happening being in the industry in Pakistan?

41:53Taha SadaqatParticularly in terms of Netflix, you were asking?

41:57Jawad MirIn anything. Streaming platform, Amazon, Netflix. You know, who… ... Is the…

42:03Taha SadaqatAn honest answer would be probably no. And the reason… We have proved with this documentary that technicalities is not the reason. A lot of people thought that technical aspect of things is a problem from Pakistan. No, we were able to pull off everything we wanted. They... Everything they wanted, to be very honest. Like, what sort of equipment they wanted, everything was sorted from sound to light to drones to, the kind of travel equ… the... They even have the specific requirement that which type of vans you have to put the equipment in. Like, even to that level, there's mic…

42:42Jawad MirYeah

42:42Taha Sadaqat... Format. So, we were able to do a… all of that, and we shot in Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad, Fe… Sialkot. So like four cities in Pakistan we shot. So we were able to do everything. So yeah, technical side is not the problem. Before that, people used to think that, oh, maybe there are technical, hindrances from, in Pakistan. No, that's not the case. Problem is, again, what we spoke a little while ago, good stories. The stuff Pakistan is watching, that's not what g… what's gonna go on Netflix unfortunately. And…

43:21Jawad MirYeah

43:22Taha Sadaqat... What people think is that... And there are two sides to it. One is what I just told you, that people think that we can't fulfill technical requirements, and the other thing they think is that because Netflix for the region is controlled by Netflix India, they say no to everything that comes from Pakistan. Yeah, no, but they're not good, the good things are not coming from Pakistan. That is why they haven't been accepted. This is,... But there is one thing which is coming now, which you may have heard about, a web series by Hum that has also been approved by, Netflix. So it is being shot right now, so it must be good that they've approved it and it will hopefully come, very soon. So if once in a while somebody will come up with something like this, the doors are open, but you gotta improve, what you do.

44:16Jawad Mir100%, 100%. Anything exciting coming up, besides Champions Trophy and the series that you're looking forward to? I know you don't look at future goals. I'm just talking about what, anything that you…

44:28Taha SadaqatThere's another, s… another docuseries we're working on.

44:34Jawad MirYeah

44:34Taha Sadaqat... We can't reveal about, reveal…

44:35Jawad MirThat's fine

44:36Taha Sadaqat... Anything about it, but it's... Again, it's also another India-Pakistan collaborative thing. But it's not cricket related, but it is also something which is being worked upon. And, other than that, obviously the management stuff is going on, so, that keeps me very busy. I was just at, in Dubai for the ILT20, the... Dubai's IPL. So I was also doing the social media content for the league. My team was working on it, so I was there for the whole month. All the social media stuff that was happening for the league was being done. Other than that, events keep coming up. Some sort of travel keep happening. So bunch of things for the rest of the year are coming. In terms of production work, commercials obviously keep coming up. A lot of times I'm not even on set now. My pr… my company is working on that. There are things which are being shot, but I'm, I'm not there personally, so that's on auto. The commercial... You know how commercial world works. There's a…

45:35Jawad MirYeah

45:36Taha Sadaqat... Demand and you have to fulfill. There's nothing creative input you can put out there, and if you try to put that in, the creative input, you're being told off. You're being told…

45:47Jawad MirYeah It's, that's the thing with agencies, right, and, like, big clients is because there will be, like, five people from the company, five people from... And everybody has their input, and it just, you know

46:01Taha SadaqatAnd they'll all travel to Thailand and Istanbul for no reason.

46:05Jawad MirYeah. For no re… well, to travel. That's the only reason they would travel for.

46:08Taha SadaqatYeah. Yeah.

46:09Jawad MirYeah. And how does that sort of affect your family life? Being, you know, traveling, and I, 'cause I've been through that and I know how that is. How do you manage that?

46:18Taha SadaqatI manage it in a way where I bribe them a lot of times with, you know, whenever, when my work finishes, they join me at a certain destination. And, this is not a bribe, to be very honest. I love to have them around. That's, that's the, there's some sort of guilt…

46:37Jawad MirThe truth came out. The truth came out.

46:39Taha SadaqatThere's some sort of guilt also in you when you're away. So just like I was in Dubai for the whole month, so they joined me for 10 days in between. I flew them in. The… my wife and my, son, they both came. They were there for 10 days. But I told them that I will be working, so I will probably be away all day, but there will be off days in between and we'll, we'll, you know, we'll have fun. And this is how we... In the last summer I had a US-Canada tour with Shoaib for, of eight cities. So what I did was when I finished the eight cities, my last city was Miami. So Shoaib went back to Pakistan and I asked my wife and my son to join. So they came to Miami. From Miami we went to Toronto, then went to Montreal. Did some, friends... We met some friends. Did a bunch of touristy things. Came back. Just similarly last year I had something in Malaysia going on, so Singapore I was working with Meta on a project, so I, there was a training for which I had to go to Singapore, so I took them along s… for seven days.

47:43Taha SadaqatSo this is how it ki… kind of works. But I don't know if it, if it's, if it covers for the time I'm away, but it gives us all some really good times and, that's what matters. I mean, my son is two years old. Even a lot of things he does right now, he will probably not remember those, because he's still very young, but my wife and I will remember that, and I think that's what matters. So we travel a lot as a family, and, that's how I kind of compensate.

48:14Jawad MirAmazing, man. That's awesome. Well, really, it's been really wonderful chatting with you. I got to know a little bit about you as a person, and I appreciate your honest because I truly believe if everybody in the world was blunt and straightforward, we won't have any problems, right? And

48:31Taha SadaqatYeah

48:31Jawad Mir... So thank you so much for that.

48:32Taha SadaqatI think that's what... I think the whole idea of podcasts should be, that the people should be…

48:39Jawad MirYeah

48:40Taha Sadaqat... And…

48:40Jawad MirYeah

48:40Taha Sadaqat... The more they're happening now, I feel that the more they're becoming like a putting up an act type of a thing, which should not be the case. For that, the old-school interviews are there. Go and do your acting in those old interviews, I guess.

48:54Jawad MirYeah. No, I agree, and I think one of the reasons I have sort of gotten into this, there's a history behind it, but I have made feature documentaries, so I've questioned a lot of people. And whenever I prep, do a podcast with, like, over 200 episodes now, I never have any questions prepared. I just watch the movie or the series or read the book, and I just dive right into it because I don't want to have any preconceived, you know, notions and idea. It just needs to come organically. And I enjoy it, and I think my guests enjoy it, and that's all that matters at the end of the day.

49:25Taha SadaqatWe're talking about podcasts. I was w… last year, I was asked to do a TED Talk in one of the universities. I'll send you the link for that as well when you have some time.

49:35Jawad MirSure, would love to.

49:37Taha SadaqatI literally went unprepared. I and TED Talk is like, it's a, it's a monologue.

49:42Jawad MirScripted.

49:42Taha SadaqatYou're not…

49:43Jawad MirIt's, scripted, yeah.

49:44Taha SadaqatYeah. You're not, you're not getting any questions or any, you know, so people go very prepared. I literally went there and, we… went there unprepared, and one line which I told you as well that... And it was a university. Obviously, young people were there. M… my, that one line which I said that it's okay not to have a plan, we, the kids were roaring with, and clapping because I think this is what at the age of 20, we... Or 18 or 17, we put a lot of pressure on children, and that's not how it should be. And that's what I told them. It's okay not to have a plan. The vice chancellor of the university was not very happy with what I said.

50:28Jawad MirOf course not. Of course not.

50:29Taha SadaqatBut the children were clapping and laughing and, you know, they said, "This is what we wanted to hear." So I wish somebody told me at that time because I did take a lot of pressure in my, you know, younger days sometimes to... Because my whole family wanted me to be a doctor. And it was like an understood thing that I will be a doctor, and I think that is why I did not become a doctor because I was like, "Jo mere dimaag mein bitha diya hai woh toh nahi ab maine karna." So I think it's kind of personality mein bhi hota hai logon ki yaar yeh toh ab maine nahi karna, kuch aur kar lunga. Yeh nahi karna.

51:04Jawad MirYeah. And it's also about having your own voice, and it's also about, you know, w… but it's interesting you mention that. I mean, I know I said we're gonna wrap it up, but I just wanna ask you what... So you were talking about not having a plan, right? Which I agree with. And you had said you wish somebody had told you all these things when you were young.

51:23Taha SadaqatYeah.

51:24Jawad MirBut if you were told all that stuff, would you be where you are today?

51:30Taha SadaqatOh, that's a very tricky question. I don't know. I don't know if I would be…

51:34Jawad MirRight? See

51:34Taha Sadaqat... Able to answer that question.

51:35Jawad MirI know you don't because I know that it's, it's one of those things, right? It's about time, right? Like, how do we know what we'd actually... Like, I am a firm believer that if I move my finger like this versus this, it can alter everything in my life. Like, that's just how I look at life in every single way.

51:49Taha SadaqatYeah.

51:50Jawad MirSo I think it's important about this past thing for me personally is, like, I'm so glad that I messed up so many times. I'm so glad I failed so many times because I wouldn't be who I am.

51:59Taha SadaqatAnd learn from that, yeah.

52:00Jawad MirI wouldn't be who I am today in every which way.

52:02Taha SadaqatI think, I think you're right, and I may be wrong in saying this what I said because, even when we were younger, I'm sure a lot of people tried to tell us a lot of things. We were pro… we were probably not ready to listen. Just how I see youngsters now, they're probably the same. We were all probably the same way.

52:24Jawad MirYeah.

52:24Taha SadaqatBut they have this advantage now of having the world out there on this social media and…

52:33Jawad MirYeah

52:33Taha Sadaqat... This. We... It was just the beginning of what all of this when I was, I was in university. So they have access, but I feel, I feel that they will still learn the way we learnt because we had some sort of access as well. We had people who had done good things. We could have m… sat with them and chatted with them, to, which I did as well to an extent. I remember a couple of, I remember one particular professor in my university who was very ahead of his time. So I used to, he used to teach us political science. One of the subjects I studied…

53:11Taha Sadaqat... Was political science. So a lot of times he would be, he would ask me that, "Why do you bunk classes?" Because I, and I would say that, "I get really bored w… because I feel that I'm not learning anything in the class. Everything I'm learning is not in the class." And he's like, "You're right. Bilkul tum sahi keh rahe ho. Tum sometimes come to my office and chill with me after class." And that's what I started doing. And, I learnt so many things from him that a lot of, a lot of those things I apply still in my life. And I still, whenever I get a chance and I go see him, I s… I still meet him. I still, I'm in touch with him. And he was a very ahead of time liberal professor I had, and I'm very glad I met him at that point because I, there were so many others as well at that time which I don't wanna see anymore, you know? So, yeah. It's, it's, it's a process, and I think we will all find a way to get wherever we want to.

54:15Jawad MirThat's true. That's 100% true. Well, man, it's, it's been amazing chatting with you. I really appreciate your time and your openness and, we talked less about India versus Pakistan: The Greatest Rivalry, which is okay because people can see it and on Netflix and figure out themselves. I think it's gonna be, enjoyable.

54:33Taha SadaqatI mean, if you wanna put a few things related to the documentary, which you wanna put, i… in short clips, I can, I, we can, we can talk about it in five, 10 minutes, where if there's any particular scene you wanna discuss, or if any particular interview you wanna discuss, you can just, you know, in…

54:50Jawad MirHonestly, if you wanna... Like, let me think. So I, we never cut this podcast. It's very raw. So let me ask you... Okay, so tell me any behind the scene interesting story with either Javed Miandad, Inzamam-ul-Haq, Shoaib Akhtar or anybody el…

55:06Taha SadaqatThe most interesting…

55:06Jawad MirIf it goes w… And Ramiz Raja

55:07Taha SadaqatThe most interesting story from, India versus Pakistan is that I have a broken finger from this documentary, which will stay with me for life. You can actually see if possible.

55:19Jawad MirYeah, I can see it. I can see it.

55:20Taha SadaqatSo we were, so we were in, we were in Lahore shooting a sequence in government college, of, we were trying to show first class cricket being played. So we were just shooting that in a cricket ground. So camera setup time. So there were, there were cricket balls there, so we started play… we started playing, catching, you know? Catching I got super excited and started doing the, you know, very high catches

55:48Jawad MirYeah

55:49Taha Sadaqat... County Roads. So, you know, in that process, one of those catches that came and landed right on my finger and I broke my finger. So, and just because they were such busy days, I did not really address it properly. I was just icing it or just putting it in water…

56:08Jawad MirOh

56:08Taha Sadaqat... And I would it. So I should have put something on it, like a brace or something.

56:13Jawad MirYeah.

56:14Taha SadaqatSo whatever was broken... So that's a memory which will stay with me. Other than that, there's a fire sequence we shot in which, we re… we wa… we had a body double for Shoaib Akhtar. Shoaib Akhtar came and he said

56:30Jawad MirOh, right. Yeah.

56:32Taha SadaqatHe said, "I'm gonna do it myself."

56:34Jawad MirOf course.

56:35Taha SadaqatAnd I was like, "This is a, this is a cricket pitch on fire, and it's 48 degrees." It's, June. We were shooting in June. So he's like, "No. So that obviously, the behind the scenes from that we have some footage which we will... The, so we are, by the way, gathering a behind the scenes, a pura making of India versus Pakistan.

56:57Jawad MirThe documentary, yeah.

56:58Taha SadaqatWhich will be out.

56:59Jawad MirYeah.

56:59Taha SadaqatSo we will show some stuff in that. So yeah, that fire sequence, and then the most memorable is, interviewing Javed Miandad, the legendary Javed Miandad. But the... It brings a smile on my face when I talk about him because…

57:13Jawad MirOh, look at me.

57:15Taha SadaqatJust the way he talks, just the way he is. We were in his house. He was very hospitable and, it was, it was amazing because Stu… Stuart was not able to communicate with Javed. Like, that was just…

57:28Jawad MirOh, yeah

57:28Taha Sadaqat... That was just not happening. So…

57:30Jawad MirI can s… I can see that happening for sure…

57:32Taha SadaqatYeah

57:32Jawad Mir... How that unfolded.

57:33Taha SadaqatThat was not happening, so I was like, "Stu, just chill. I will deal with this." So I did all the questions, I did... Because there was a lot of repetition. Javed, I would forget things in between as well. He had a bit of a health concern going on at that time as well, so his memory was not that amazing. So it was, it was hard work, but I was, I was feeling very honored that I'm able to do that. So Javed Bhai was amazing. Inzi Bhai, Inzi Bhai, he in between couple of questions maybe got angry. And, w… if you notice, there's one question where, which obviously questions are not featured in the documentary, but the question was…

58:15Jawad MirYeah

58:16Taha Sadaqat... The 2004 series you had the fastest bowler in the world, and you ended up making 10 pitches where, Shoaib Akhtar and Sami, they both really struggled. So he kinda said, "Stop the shoot right now." So we stopped. He's like, "Why are you asking me this? I was the captain. I can make whatever I want to." So then I was like, "Whichever way you want to answer it, even if you wanna say this, I am the captain, I could do whatever, do it, but don't stop the shoot."

58:43Jawad MirSay something. Yeah.

58:44Taha SadaqatSay something. But yeah. So Inzi Bhai has sometimes gets angry. He has this, you know, he's, he's an amazing character as well. Ramiz was a lot of fun to interview. He was the PCB chairman at the time, so we shot…

58:59Jawad MirYeah

58:59Taha Sadaqat... At the Gaddafi Stadium. Everything, every moment, every single day of the shoot, w… w… was a memory and, it will al… it will always stay with me. Just like I told you that T20 trouble is one part of my life which... You know, when you're in a project, you're kinda living that project. So T20 trouble is one project which I kinda lived for those two years, and then India versus Pakistan I lived for these two years when I worked on that.

59:31Jawad MirIt's, one of the things I will say, so, you know, I haven't been back to Pakistan in 35 years, right? And…

59:41Taha SadaqatOh, wow.

59:42Jawad MirAnd one…

59:42Taha SadaqatNow in 30.

59:44Jawad MirI, we don't have any family or anybody. I've always wanted to, but I think in, after probably 2007, I just kinda lost... You know, it had been like 17 years and I just kind of didn't have any interest going back. I do now. But one thing, the closest I came was I was in India in 2013 for three weeks and we passed the, 40 kilometers away from Amritsar, the Wagah, was it Wagah border? Right.

1:00:10Taha SadaqatYeah. It's close to

1:00:10Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

1:00:11Taha SadaqatWagah.

1:00:11Jawad MirYeah. And…

1:00:12Taha SadaqatBy the way, talking about Wagah border, we shot at Wagah border. You must have seen.

1:00:16Jawad MirYeah.

1:00:16Taha SadaqatOh.

1:00:17Jawad MirYeah.

1:00:17Taha SadaqatAmazing experience shooting at Wagah border. Continue please.

1:00:21Jawad MirI, yeah, so I… One thing that really touched me in the series was not the cricket, was not the food, was not the peop… the locals. There were certain shots of Lahore and certain parts from the above, and I had not seen those before. I'm sure they're out there, and I had not seen those before. So I… my dad was in the army in Pakistan. He served 30 years. So we were posted from Gilgit to different cities, to Quetta, to Mardan, to, Multan and all those places. And we were kind of more in the army side of things, so we used to see the outside world, but not, maybe not that much, and I was really young when I, when I left. But through watching the series, some of the shots and some of the interactions, especially Shoaib Akhtar interaction with that, vendor…

1:01:11Taha SadaqatYeah

1:01:11Jawad Mir... Was very powerful, was very powerful. I thought that was really well executed. So it kinda made me a little nostalgic, and I became a little bit more aware of certain things that I didn't know about. But, I just wanted to make a comment on that it was just really pulled me in that sense.

1:01:26Taha SadaqatI think one of the things which I would probably regret, and I don't like to regret in life, hopefully I'll be able to do that at another point. Maybe hopefully if we make a sequel to this or we make something on those lines. But not being able to, I don't think at this stage in Pakistan a lot of people will even talk about it, but not being able to interview Imran Khan for this was something I would, I would definitely regret. And we had his, we had, we literally had a time and schedule sorted with him, and then something unfortunate happened with him at that time, which, because of which we couldn't interview him. But we literally had, like, time and place and everything sorted f… to interview him for this, but we were not able to. So hopefully, at some point in future, I, my life would have been complete if I was able to do that because Javed Miandad, Inzamam-ul-Haq, these were my childhood heroes. Shoaib Akhtar and, so Imran Khan of course tops that list.

1:02:29Taha SadaqatSo if I was able to do that would have been amazing, but hopefully at some point in future.

1:02:35Jawad MirInshallah. Now I, you mentioned about Shoaib Akhtar. One thing I remember, the way when I think about Shoaib Akhtar there's, there's only one thing that I think of, and I don't know why it's in my memory. In 1999 World Cup, which, you know, what happened in the final, which I remember I was, like, bawling my eyes out. There was a match in with Australia before, which we won. There was a delivery that I bowled which came in almost like a half volley or a yorker on the off stump, and it went in really quickly. I think either it was Ricky Ponting or Steve Waugh.

1:03:10Taha SadaqatSteve Waugh.

1:03:10Jawad MirI don't remember.

1:03:11Taha SadaqatSteve Waugh.

1:03:12Jawad MirThat's how I know Shoaib. Like, when I think of Shoaib Akhtar, that's what I remember. I don't remember Tendulkar's ball, I don't remember Sehwag or anybody. That's the delivery I remember, and I think that delivery, the way it came in, and he was at his peak. He was, like, really, what, 20, 22 years old or something like that?

1:03:28Taha SadaqatYeah.

1:03:28Jawad MirThat was, that was, that's one of the best deliveries, and nobody talks about that. In my view, that is his best delivery, in the context of the tournament, in talk…

1:03:36Taha SadaqatHonestly, I'm so, I feel sometimes I feel so honored that I worked with Shoaib Akhtar. He is one gem of a person. He has fought all his life where people, they… He's always been painted in bad light in his, in his playing career, and not anymore. I think because of obviously YouTube and a lot of stuff he's done with, you know, he's in public communication now, so I think people get a chance to know him more now, so people love him. But in those times when there was no social media and there was only, like, conventional media and newspapers, and just because they were not able to get their way with Shoaib, if somebody wanted an interview and he did not give, or if somebody wanted a certain thing from him and he did not give, and they would just write things about him. Just like in the documentary we featured that when, a-after the last test match, Sho… Inzamam said that Shoaib was faking an injury.

1:04:37Taha SadaqatAnd then he proved it that he was injured, and he's like, "Not just one rib. I had three ro… broken ribs." And it was not,... And then J… I spoke to Javed bhai on this, and Javed bhai kinda, he was like that, "I knew at that time that he is actually injured and Inzamam is wrong there. But I also stayed quiet on it, and I'm embarrassed for that right now." So, you know, it was... So Shoaib was, he was a very honest, blunt person all his life, and he would, and he would never fake an injury to skip a match. He loves, he loved the country all his life. He, his patriotism was another level. But the kind of stories, on the lighter note, the kind of story, this Kolkata, story where before the ma… two, three days ago, they were all hanging out and people were taking pictures with Afridi and Azhar Mahmood and Saqlain, and one of the kids asked Shoaib that, "Who are you and why are you with them?"

1:05:38Taha SadaqatAnd he was like, "Jan jaoge. You'll know who I am." And…

1:05:42Jawad MirYeah

1:05:42Taha Sadaqat... In today's time he… These are real stories because he's, it's not like he's making these up. I've heard these stories from other cricketers who were there. Saqlain Mushtaq told me this story. Mohammad Yusuf was there. He told me this story. He's like, "Exactly aise hua tha ke bachon ne poocha ke aap kaun hai aur aap kyun ghoom rahein cricketers ke saath?" So he was like, "Tum logon ko pata chal jayega do dino ke andar ke main kaun hoon." So, you know. Similarly, there's another beautiful story which he, which I know from Zaheer Abbas. Zaheer Abbas, the legendary Pakistani batsman. Zaheer Abbas was doing PIA trials, back in the day, and fast bowlers ke trial le rahe the. So about Shoaib said ki pandr… 1,500 peo…... Kids showed up there for fast bowling trials. So he was like that, "I knew that ""So he started running in that ground, and he's like, "I just kept running." When Zaheer Abbas said, "And when he came, he said, "Shoaib said, "And this is what...

1:06:52Taha SadaqatZaheer Bhai told me this. Shoaib didn't tell me. Zaheer Bhai said that this is what, he said at that time. "Look at the confidence at that age and with the, with the kind of humble background he had. There's nothing he had, but he just had confidence. Just similarly, we... I just met Saba Karim and, s… Sourav Ganguly in Dubai. So they were me… They told me this story. These are the things Shoaib doesn't tell me. They told me that in '96 there was an, A-team tour to Sharjah, where India A-team and Pakistan A-team was playing. Shoaib was not being given a match. Shoaib did not play a single match, so he was like And Ganguly said to me, he was like, "So, you know…

1:07:53Jawad MirWow

1:07:53Taha Sadaqat... These stories are very fascinating, and especially when you hear it from other people, not from him.

1:08:01Jawad MirThat's amazing. That shows a sign of humbleness and groundedness. I mean, I know he comes across sometimes as very arrogant and, you know, cocky type of personality, but it's just him being blunt and goes back to what I was saying, that we live in such a world where honesty and bluntness is always perceived as the wrong…

1:08:18Taha SadaqatYeah

1:08:18Jawad Mir... Thing, right? So, but yeah, no, man, it's been awesome. Thank you so much, for your time, for making this series. Loved it. Enjoyed it. Looking forward to more stuff from you guys in the future and everything, and it's been a pleasure.

1:08:31Taha SadaqatAbsolutely. And you're, in Canada, right?

1:08:34Jawad MirI'm in Toronto, yeah.

1:08:35Taha SadaqatIn Toronto. So hopefully when I'm in Toronto next we should do this, in person and, I'm sure there'll be a lot more we would still have to talk about.

1:08:45Jawad MirAbsolutely. Would love to. Thank you so much.