'Raiders of the Lost Ark', Ark Cherubim Prop Maker, Tom Spina

0:08Jawad MirWelcome back to another episode of Kingdom of Dreams Podcast, The Making of Stories. I'm your host Jawad Mir. Today, my guest is Tom Spina of The Regal Robot. I had the pleasure of having him several months ago to talk about one of the Indiana Jones props. Today, he's here to talk about the Ark of the Covenant Cherubim, and I'll let him talk about what it is and how the idea started, and the challenges that took place behind the making of it. It's available as of today to pre-order from May 27th until June 10th. And just as an official side note, this is not a paid production, this is not a paid promotion. So without further ado, here's my conversation with Tom Spina. So tell me, what have you been up to since we last talked?

0:48Tom SpinaOh, boy. It's kinda nonstop lately. It feels like, you know, we've had one or two releases every month. Some of, you know, some… a lot of times, I guess the best... You know the old, adage where it's like the duck in the water, you know? And you see the top of the duck on above the water and everything looks calm, and below the water it's like, "Ah."

1:13Jawad MirYeah.

1:13Tom SpinaThat's us at all times, you know. So we have these releases coming out, and it, you know, seems like this well-oiled machine of like, "Oh, okay. That's gonna come out on Tuesday, and there'll be an email about it, and there's posts online." But behind the scenes, it's just absolute craziness getting it going. But

1:29Jawad MirI bet

1:30Tom Spina... Yeah. So it's that. We've got a lot, a lot of planning we've got to do for, San Diego Comic-Con. We've got some new releases that we've got to, you know, kind of debut there and show pe… show folks for the first time. So right now we're finishing, just planning, prototyping, and taking photos and preparing all that, and getting all the Lucasfilm and Disney approvals, as you can imagine, is its own separate animal when it comes to this stuff. But it's hectic but fun and always an adventure.

2:08Jawad MirThat's amazing, man. That's exciting. I, you know, it's, for the longest time been trying to go to Comic-Con.

2:16Tom Spinahuh.

2:16Jawad MirAnd especially in the '90s and the early 2000, and then I just, after that I lost interest. But last two years I've been trying to, and this year I said I was gonna, I'm gonna go. But then it turns out so far that I might be, working on my film in that week, but we'll see. If I'm not, then I'm definitely making a trip to Comic-Con this year. So we'll keep you posted. We might be able to hook up.

2:40Tom SpinaYeah. Let me know, let me know. At the very least for us, it's either gonna be, Rob, DeNicola who helps me run stuff, or, it'll be either him and me or just him.

2:50Jawad MirRight.

2:50Tom SpinaWe're kind of playing it by ear. We've got some other travel, and I've got a little bit other travel around it, and I'm just trying to make sure it all works. The, last year it was supposed to be both of us, and I wound up with COVID at the last minute, like literally testing positive like two days before, you know, the, I was supposed to get on a flight kind of thing. And that was, that was a lot of panic because we were all set and all of a sudden it was just like, whoop, out the window, new plan, you know.

3:17Jawad MirWow. Last year COVID, really? It's, is it still happening?

3:21Tom SpinaYeah.

3:21Jawad MirOkay.

3:21Tom SpinaYeah, go figure, right? Like completely random. I, and I had, I think it was my second or third time getting it, and it was, I don't know, it felt like... It's, I remember the first time thinking, "This is terrible. I don't want this again." And then, you know, it definitely didn't improve the second and third time. I don't recommend it, you know.

3:42Jawad MirYeah. Well, hope…

3:43Tom SpinaIt's a bold stance, but I don't recommend it, so there we go, you know.

3:48Jawad MirWell, I hope this year if you're planning to go wherever, it doesn't happen…

3:51Tom SpinaThank you

3:51Jawad Mir... It doesn't happen again, so

3:53Tom SpinaThank you very much. Yeah, same.

3:56Jawad MirAmazing. So what do you got back there?

3:59Tom SpinaWhat? Th… what, that? This over here?

4:01Jawad MirYeah.

4:02Tom SpinaSo

4:03Jawad MirSure

4:03Tom Spina... Let me see. It's on a different, it's on a little, it's behind me, so it doesn't look as big until you get up. We also, we accidentally made these really heavy. So

4:14Jawad MirOops

4:14Tom Spina... You know what? Before I hurt my back and lift it, I'll describe it first and then I'll bring it up.

4:18Jawad MirSure.

4:19Tom SpinaSo, I, well, I don't know. I think anybody who's watching, your podcast probably can identify that just from the pho… from seeing it im… blurred out behind me. It is a one-to-one replica of the Cherubim on top of the Ark of the Covenant from Raiders of the Lost Ark. It's one of those pieces that I think people see all the time but don't really appreciate everything that's, that's involved in it. All, like the sculpture on this is just beautiful. And it's one of these pieces that, you know, we got to see at the, at the archives at the Skywalker Ranch with all the other, original props from Indy and Star Wars. And we... You know, a lot of times we see stuff there, and that's what sparks us to make something. And we, you know, we were looking at the Ark, a… and just, I mean, one, because you can, but two, with the idea of like, "Okay, maybe there's some product in the future that involves the Ark.

5:25Tom SpinaMaybe there's..." You know, whether that's some scaled thing, or a decor piece, or a replica, or whatever. And a replica of the Ark would be intense. Like, that would be a very large... Not everybody would have room for this thing. Very, complicated to build, very expensive, blah. But we looked at the, when we s… really looked at the cherubim, we're like, "This is just, like, such a beautiful sculpture on its own that it could stand alone and still be amazing, and it could be something that, you know, would go really well with the other stuff in our archive collection from the Indy, collection." And it's funny, if, by the time this is live, these will be available on our site for a limited time. So just go to regalrobot.com, click the Indiana Jones logo, and it'll take you right to the page. There is a picture in that, on that page that will show the cherubim next to, you know, the head of the Belloc staff, the Sankara Stones we made, the Urn of Nurhachi, even our Grail Tablet Waldocore.

6:29Tom SpinaAnd together they just... It's, it's weird. There's this, like, more than the sum of its parts thing that starts to happen as you build these collections. And it really works as, like, a standalone piece. You know, standalone in the sense separate from the Ark, but with all these other cool artifacts. So I'll bring it closer to camera so folks can get a… an appreciation of how big it is. It's w… oddly heavy. It's like, it's a big chunky piece. But it's like, I think it's like when you get the Oscar, you know? And the first time…

7:03Jawad MirYeah

7:03Tom Spina... You pick up a real Oscar, which I've, I've been fortunate enough to do myself once. And, boy, yeah, so heavy. So there we go. This is…

7:13Jawad MirThat does look heavy, for sure. Oh my God.

7:15Tom SpinaYeah.

7:15Jawad MirLook at the detail on that.

7:17Tom SpinaSo solid resin, electroplated r… real metal, you know, golden finish. It's got the print on the bottom. The finals will have... This is one of our prototypes, but, it'll have a handwritten number at the bottom. So it's a numbered edition. What's really cool is, you know, I don't think people get a sense that... I don't know if it's gonna focus. There we go. Oh, it did for a second.

7:41Jawad MirYeah, there you go. There it's in focus now.

7:42Tom SpinaSo there's, there's actually a sculpted face and everything within there.

7:45Jawad MirYep.

7:46Tom SpinaBeautiful just detail in the folds of the fabric and everything, and obviously, you know, the wings and feathers. But it's just such an impressive piece. It really is something... Oh, man. I'm not, I'm not…

8:03Jawad MirWhat…

8:03Tom Spina... Putting this on for camera, folks. Like, this really is legitimately heavy, and I'm also legitimately weak. So you know, it just is a bad combination.

8:11Jawad MirSo it, would it be 10 to 15 pounds or heavier you think?

8:15Tom SpinaIt's tw… I think it's 12 is where we…

8:17Jawad MirOh, 12

8:18Tom Spina... We settled.

8:18Jawad MirYeah.

8:19Tom SpinaIt's about 17 inches long. It's a little under 10 inches tall, about seven inches deep at the base. And a solid resin, electroplated. It's just, it's really a stunning piece. We actually... It's funny. We thought about adding a layer of distressing on it, which is something I like to do on, faux metallic stuff because it really gives it some realism. But the electroplating came out so nice that, one, it didn't need it to look real. It feels and looks like real metal. But, two, it just felt more appropriate for this piece, you know, the glowing, g… iconic gold Ark, you know, that you would, you wouldn't want this to look dirtied up the way like Belloc's staff is. Which is something when you look at it, even in the movie you can see there's distressing on it. So you know, we're, we're sort of matching something with that. But yeah, it's, it's pretty exciting. This is gonna be available for a limited time. It's, it's,.. To make sure that nobody misses out, we're doing what's, what we call a timed edition.

9:21Tom SpinaBasically it's available from, May 27th through June 10th. It's a Tuesday to Tuesday. It's two-week period. And just if you would like to get one of these, reserve yours before noon Eastern on June 10th, and just go to the Regal Robot website. You can do it. There's even a handy-dandy payment plan. This is my, like, QVC pitch. The handy payment plan where you can probably pay less than 100 bucks a month, and in six months it's all paid off. And we're expecting them to ship, in about six months, at the end of the year, quarter four of, 2025. So, it'll kind of sync up with when the payment plans end.

10:04Jawad MirNice. So just to,.. W… we'll go into the product in a, in a second, but you said June 10th it's gonna be available for pre-ordering, correct?

10:13Tom SpinaThat's the last day you can order.

10:15Jawad MirLast day.

10:15Tom SpinaSo it goes up on…

10:17Jawad MirJune 2…

10:17Tom Spina... May 27th.

10:18Jawad MirMay 20. Okay. Perfect.

10:19Tom SpinaSo Tuesday the 27th. By the time people see this, it's probably already live. And then it will, you will have this two-week window to order. And anybody that orders in that two weeks, we will make sure they get one, or two if you're one of those people that wants to make it, you know, match up, put it on top of the TV cabinet or something. And, th… at the end, after June 10th, we tally up all of the orders. We talk with our retailers who have offered these, which, I don't know exactly who's gonna offer them yet. Usually, that winds up being people like Big Bad Toy Store or Secret Compass, things like that.

10:56Jawad MirSure.

10:56Tom SpinaAnd once they give us their numbers, we settle on the edition size. We finalize it, and we cap it, and then that's it. They're no longer offered.

11:05Jawad MirLovely. That sounds very exciting, and I love the... I mean, I could... You know, obviously I'm not there physically, but I could... The way the detail is that you can feel, the texture that it has even remotely.

11:19Tom SpinaNice.

11:19Jawad MirAnd, I, you know, I can picture... You talked about dust. It'd be really cool to... I remember when I was growing up, we used to have these... Don't ask me how.

11:29Tom SpinaYeah.

11:29Jawad MirWe used to have these stuffed life-size peacocks.

11:33Tom SpinaOh, wow

11:34Jawad Mir... And, like, literally in their authentic detailed shape as if they were just standing there. And we al… and we always kept them in this glass, massive glass, closure.

11:46Tom SpinaOh, like..., huh.

11:47Jawad MirSo no dust goes on it. So maybe that's something people need to…

11:50Tom SpinaOh, yeah I could see a nice acrylic cover over something like this on top of a cabinet or on a pedestal.

11:56Jawad MirYeah.

11:56Tom SpinaYou know, I'm, I'm always... So we have, this, if people go to r… Facebook and look up the, Regal Robot Facebook group, not just the actual page, but we have a group where, it's so cool because, like we make all this stuff, and, like, it goes away, you know? And we see it in the context of our studio, or we see it in the context of maybe it's on a shelf in our office or something like that. But seeing it in people's homes is just a total other thing, and it's always so great. Somebody recently got the first batch of the Belloc staffs that we did went out recently, and those are going out. Those are all being made in combination. You know, they're, they're cast and everything, but then they have to go out for plating, and those are being done, Stateside, and they're being done in batches of like 10 or 12 at a time. So those are gonna be made over a long period. But it's just, it just means for us, every few weeks we're gonna see another batch of these go out.

12:57Tom SpinaWe'll see more and more people posting these pictures. But yeah, somebody posted a shot of, it's the full length Belloc staff hanging on the wall next to two of the stone dart shooting faces from the temple…

13:10Jawad MirOh, wow

13:10Tom Spina... That we make. And I think he had the grail tablet on the wall, and he had the urn on a shelf, and it's just... Like, seeing it all together like that and just in like a home setting, you know, not staged, not pro lighting or anything, just, like, this is, this guy has brought something we made into his life, and that's just so cool.

13:33Jawad MirThat is. I love how you put that. We have... The guy has brought something that you have created into his life. That's amazing. And, you know, just, look, even if you're not an Indiana Jones fan, like a hardcore, which there are a lot of them, it's just, you know, if you've grown up with Indiana Jones or even have seen the recent films, there's just so much stuff in there that you know, your company or somebody else or any… a… for that matter, can just make on and g… as long as you get, keep getting licenses, like you just keep on…

14:01Tom SpinaYeah

14:01Jawad Mir... Making them, right?

14:02Tom SpinaThere…

14:03Jawad MirAnd... Sorry, go on.

14:04Tom SpinaYeah. No, I mean, there's like, between Star Wars and In… you know, we keep talking about other licenses and stuff here at the shop, and, the biggest reason we don't do it, is because we're tired. No. That's part of it, but, it's because there's so much we wanna do with Star Wars and Indy. And, you know, it's funny, w… we love the deep cut stuff, right? So we're, v… more than I think any other licensee, we're gonna continue to be inspired by these movies and by the stuff in them. There's so much in all of them that were made. ILM worked so hard on these movies, and, you know, even UK art department and the prop co… prop makers and the, oh gosh, you know, right on down the list. Rental houses. Everybody that worked on all of the original Star Wars movies, all the prequels, all the sequels, all the Indiana Jones movies. How could you run out of inspiration…

15:05Jawad MirYeah. I agree

15:05Tom Spina... Of stuff to br… to make? And, like, I'm, I have the collector bug, you know? Like, I want this stuff for myself. Like, that's, you know, a very big driver of what we make, is, you know, Rob and I going like, "It'd be really cool to have this. We should make that." You know, it's like…

15:24Jawad MirYeah

15:25Tom Spina... "Oh, I really love the Tusken Raider mask. Let's make a life-size bust of the Tusken Raider," you know?

15:30Jawad MirYeah

15:31Tom Spina... And luckily there's a lot of other people who feel the same way, so it makes it very nice for us.

15:38Jawad MirThat's amazing. You know, it's interesting you talked about Indiana Jones and Star Wars, and there's like, what, five Indiana Jones films, and there's a TV show. But Star Wars universe has like, you know, blown up…

15:49Tom SpinaYeah

15:49Jawad Mir... In the last seven, eight, 10 years. But there's one film, which is celebrating its 50th anniversary this year, that still has... You guys probably don't do them, but I'm just talking about it from a standpoint of just one film. I mean, there's multiple, but only one has the celebration, Jaws. If you go…

16:08Tom SpinaOh, wow. Yeah

16:09Jawad Mir... There, it's, it's, it's, it's crazy, A, it's 50th anniversary this summer.

16:13Tom SpinaYeah. That is nuts.

16:14Jawad MirThey have, they even have a 50th anniversary, like fans have a 50th anniversary page where they're getting together, at the, is it's called Amityville, I think.

16:24Tom SpinaYeah, or yeah, or the whatever stood in for…

16:26Jawad MirMartha Vineyard, Martha Vineyard's.

16:29Tom SpinaYeah.

16:29Jawad MirAnd there's a website, and they break the we… they break down scenes, especially the... I'm going off topic, but I'm just talking about a fan.

16:38Tom SpinaOh, no, that's... Yeah.

16:40Jawad MirThe, you know, the cylinder scene, the finale, you know?

16:42Tom SpinaYeah.

16:43Jawad MirCould, would it have exploded if Roy Scheider shot from that distance?

16:47Tom SpinaRight.

16:47Jawad MirAnd they actually did a, actually did a test.

16:50Tom SpinaThat's great.

16:51Jawad MirYou know? So the point that I'm trying to make is that it's in, it's crazy that how much impact these films have…

17:00Tom SpinaYeah

17:00Jawad Mir... On people and especially, you know, films like these that it's like, what, 50 years almost and two years to…

17:06Tom SpinaYeah

17:06Jawad Mir... Star Wars, right?

17:07Tom SpinaI'm trying to think, you know, when... Well, I guess there's examples of it. You know, you go back to when we were younger, King Kong was still influential at the time.

17:18Jawad MirThat's true.

17:19Tom SpinaThat was 50 years old in '83, right?

17:22Jawad MirYeah.

17:22Tom SpinaYou know, The, Wizard of Oz was still massively influential. Maybe, I don't know that it was as world-changing perhaps as Star Wars kind of was. And maybe it's... I don't know. I, it's funny because, you know, you, especially i… in getting to know a lot of the people that worked on these movies, the Star Wars films, the Indiana Jones films, they're all deeply inspired by Ray Harryhausen, by Willis O'Brien, by King Kong, by The Wizard of Oz, by all of these,... Films from even mo… most of them before they were even born. So those films had some lasting impact. But I don't know, man. It's tough to match what something like Star Wars or Indy or Jaws has done. I mean, Jaws really, that's the first sort of modern blockbuster…

18:20Jawad MirYeah

18:20Tom Spina... In a way, right?

18:21Jawad MirChanged everything. Yeah.

18:22Tom SpinaYeah. You know?

18:23Jawad MirIt was…

18:23Tom SpinaAnd to follow it up, what always amazes me is you look at a movie like Jaws, and, you know, it takes place in a period. But it never feels dated for some reason. And I, you know, that's probably credit to, a good story told well, and, you know, there's a certain director behind that.

18:50Jawad MirYeah.

18:50Tom SpinaBut it, I, you know, it's one of those rare movies 'cause there's a lot of movies from that same era. You look at something like Logan's Run that came out the same year. And every time you watch that, you go, which by the way, you know, it's, it's fine. It's a fun movie. I love it, but y… I just sit there, and on the opening sort of tracking shot of the city model, you just sit there and you go, like, "How is this months before Star Wars?" You know? Like, you can, you can track that change in what was acceptable in terms of effects, literally right there, you know? And it's like, you look at something like that versus Jaws, and you're just like, one of them, even though it's set in space, is screaming '70s. And the other one, it, you just overlook it completely. It's amazing to me.

19:46Jawad MirIt is. And then I think there was, the reason I feel that Star Wars, Indy, and ET, Jaws, and all these films, I think that '70s and '80s and maybe even '90s era is probably three different decades that, you know, they were like all this memorabilia was coming out, which wasn't there before, like King Kong and Wizard of Oz to that extent.

20:12Tom SpinaRight.

20:12Jawad MirAnd now it's gone another level. But I think those three decades had some of the most interesting films, at least for us. I think the next generation is, like, you know, 2007, 2008 onwards with the superhero films and all that.

20:27Tom SpinaRight. True.

20:29Jawad MirBut there was just something about those three decades that it was not just one type of film, one genre, right? Like, you had sci-fi, you had thriller, you have horror, all these…

20:39Tom SpinaRight

20:39Jawad Mir... Kind of products that have been made. And, you know, you were talking about, how did they do a certain shot, in, what was that movie you said? Log… what…

20:50Tom SpinaOh, Logan's Run

20:51Jawad Mir... Logan's Run, right.

20:51Tom SpinaThe tracking shot at the beginning. Yeah.

20:53Jawad MirYes. I remembered, I don't know if, I forgot, I was just googling it, and I can't remember what it was. I saw this clip on Instagram. I'm guessing it was a Mexican film in 19, I know it was definitely 1960s, 1965. It was, and they said the same thing, "How did they pull this off?" It was a massive funeral, right? Like, maybe 10,000, 20,000 people.

21:17Tom SpinaOh, gosh.

21:17Jawad MirAnd they're carrying this one coffin. And the camera starts off on the ground, and then it tracks back, and it goes up on, like, the fifth or sixth or seventh floor. And this is way before, I don't even think there were jibs or cranes, but let's assume…

21:34Tom SpinaNice

21:34Jawad Mir... There was. Then it goes inside the building. Then it comes out the other window. Then it goes over the crowd into the other side of the street, the building. Then you have people, like, actually, you know, sewing something.

21:47Tom SpinaRight.

21:47Jawad MirAnd then you see the people following the window. And then the camera goes out the window, down again, back to where it started in one shot.

21:56Tom SpinaWow. That's amazing.

21:57Jawad MirSo…

21:57Tom SpinaI would love to see how they do that.

21:59Jawad MirI'll google that, and I'll find it…

22:01Tom SpinaYeah

22:01Jawad Mir... And I'll email it to you

22:02Tom SpinaIf you can find it, send me the link.

22:03Jawad MirBut it was…

22:03Tom SpinaThat's, yeah

22:03Jawad Mir... It was crazy.

22:05Tom SpinaMeanwhile, now, it's like, you know, every home show on, like, HGTV where someone goes in and renovates a house has drone shots all over it.

22:15Jawad MirYeah.

22:15Tom SpinaAnd you're just sitting here going like, you know, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, you would've had to rent a helicopter for that. Nobody would've had this shot, and a Steadicam, you know? It's like now, everybody's got these smooth as silk drone shots on every show. And it's just, it's wild.

22:32Jawad MirIt is. And I think, one of the lessons that I learned the very first film that I directed, which was between 2013 and 2016, and that's when the drones were coming out. I had a lot of, it was like a naturistic small village, kinda like, you know, Jaws, but I had a lot of drone shots. And after that, I realized I'm not doing any drone shots because…

22:52Tom SpinaYeah

22:52Jawad Mir... It just takes you away. And now my whole thing is I don't want any drone shots. I don't want any crane shots. I just want to be on the ground, unless it's…

23:00Tom SpinaYeah

23:00Jawad Mir... Required. Like, you know, sure. But just for the…

23:02Tom SpinaRight

23:02Jawad Mir... Hell of it.

23:04Tom SpinaYeah.

23:04Jawad MirIt takes you away.

23:05Tom SpinaWell, there is something about, I remember the, some of the, oh, gosh, probably the Tobey and Andrew Garfield Spider-Man movies. You know, they always had these, the swinging through the city shots where the camera's following him and ducking in and out of things and around. And for me, those always killed it. Like, I just instantly got taken out of it because I'm like, "I know a camera can't do that." You know, even on a drone, a camera would have trouble with that.

23:34Jawad MirYeah.

23:34Tom SpinaAnd it just automatically feels false, you know? And, put on. And, you know, the occasional dynamic shot, great, something that, you know, builds some excitement or whatever. But to, when it, when it's all the time, it just starts, what's the old, Incredibles line? You know, "When everyone's super, no one will be." You know?

23:58Jawad MirYeah.

23:58Tom SpinaIt's like that but with drones. You know?

24:00Jawad Mir100%, 100%. You're so right, man. You're so right. And, you know, We can talk about movies and everything all day…... All the time, but…

24:08Tom SpinaThat's fine

24:09Jawad Mir... Going back to your, the product that you're launching

24:14Tom SpinaYeah

24:14Jawad Mir... Tell me what were some of the biggest challenges in getting… ... It done, aside from licensing. Like, I'm talking in production.

24:22Tom SpinaOh, yeah. So there's a couple things. One is that the original is gold-plated, you know, or metallic-plated, whatever. And that's really tough to 3D scan. And so, you know, we... You can't use a structured light scanner for that. You've got to use laser, and luckily we've got both options and things like that. But, you know, so the initial hurdle is, you know, just the physical, like, grabbing the information off of this thing, so for reproduction. From there it's, you know, digital cleanup, and that's tricky too because you've got to now interpret that data and close up any holes and things like that, and use photographs that we took and measurements and things just to double-check everything. But you're dealing with this highly reflective thing that's tough to photograph too. So, you know, there's all of those steps. Now you're… you've got to output this at full size. It's a large piece. It doesn't just print on any printer.

25:23Tom SpinaYou can't run it on, like, a filament machine. This has to be run in ultra high res, 'cause otherwise you're gonna wind up sp… spending all your time sanding it and taking away details that you don't wanna lose. From there, now you're gonna talk about electroplating and making sure... You know, for us, one of the big challenges was getting the right thickness, because…

25:45Tom Spina... The inclination of most platers is to go thicker, 'cause they're like, "Oh, well, this gets you a more even tone. This gets a better look." And for starters, I would say this, and this is true for, like, the gold idol. It's true for a lot of things that are in the archive. C-3PO and R7 and droids and stuff like that. The plating on the original pieces of these things is not what you would consider beautiful, high-quality plating that you would wanna put on your shelf, you know? It's riddled with flaws and orange peel and, you know, sometimes cracking and discoloration and all of this other stuff, some of which is just age, but a lot of it is just the nature of the process. And so, you know, for us, it's not necessarily about the pursuit of a perfect finish, but it is about the pursuit of a finish that lets the detail show through.

26:39Jawad MirNice.

26:39Tom SpinaAnd so for us, it took a couple of tries. It was, I think the third one we did was the one where it was like, "Okay, that's the right thickness. Don't go thicker than that." And, then the other thing was also getting the right color on the gold, because, you know, there's... Y… you can't just say gold, right? Like, 'cause there's really orangey gold. There's really bright white gold, you know, almost silver. There's sort of anywhere in between, and we had to find the right one that felt bright enough. It's, it's shooting in here, I would say it's shooting a little whiter than it really is. It's a little more of a rich yellow gold. But it's beautiful. The funny thing is there are two arcs at the archives, one of which was replated in a super orange gold. Like…

27:24Jawad MirOh

27:24Tom Spina... Really orange. Like, immediately wrong when you look at it orange. But... And we talked with folks who were there when that got replated and things like that, and it's just kind of like, you know, there's not a ton they can do about it after the fact unfortunately. But so we wanted to definitely avoid that. So…

27:46Jawad MirFair enough

27:46Tom Spina... It was just... I think the plating is probably the number one challenge. The other thing is, you know, m… moving these things around, they have to... So, you know, this is gonna get w… a hand-carved foam insert. So three-dimensionally carved, but just dug out by hand so that, you know, the box it comes in, I think, is roughly, 22 by 13 by 10 or so.

28:15Tom SpinaThey're gonna come in a full-color box or at least a gloss box, so it'll be probably black with,.. There's, there's a basic high-end collectible look that a lot of Lucasfilm stuff gets. And then, the styrofoam insert inside with the piece in it, and then that gets double boxed into a corrugated craft box outside. So when it ships to you know, it's, it's what they call double box shipping. So everything we can do to get them to folks' homes safe. We've shipped a bunch of these at this point between, you know, the platers and us and going back and forth, and we've had, you know, samples going to Disney and Lucasfilm and a couple of people are doing reviews. So, knock on wood, so far they're all making it, and so far everybody that's received one, whether that's a reviewer or Disney people or Lucasfilm people, have been really impressed with it. I always like when our Lucasfilm rep gets it and is like, "This is going in my office." You know? Like, that's a good sign. You know?

29:15Tom SpinaThe... 'Cause sometimes he'll get stuff and he's like, "Oh yeah, it's really nice. It's approved." And then you go the next time and it's, like, in somebody else's office and you're like…... "You gave that away," you know?

29:26Jawad MirThat's incredible. You know, you talked about shipping.

29:29Tom SpinaYeah.

29:30Jawad MirHas any time ever one of your product, before it's been released, maybe by some random event, it's m… goes missing during shipping?

29:41Tom SpinaOh, gosh. That's like a nightmare. How, where, how could you put that into the universe? We…

29:48Jawad MirNo, I meant, I meant…

29:49Tom SpinaKnock on wood, w… we haven't had a one-of-a-kind go missing.

29:53Jawad MirI meant more in a sense of if there was somebody who is a UPS or a FedEx employee.

29:59Tom SpinaOh, I gotcha.

30:00Jawad MirAnd…

30:00Tom SpinaYeah, sees the logo

30:01Jawad Mir... If there was an indie or a Star Wars hardcore fan and they decide to jeopardize their job… Just to get on something, right? But that was the angle that I was looking at.

30:13Tom SpinaI mean, look…

30:14Jawad MirBut…

30:14Tom Spina... Fandom takes people in a lot of directions, sometimes into crime, you know? Like…

30:19Jawad MirThat's true. That's true

30:19Tom Spina... I think you've just picked up your next movie, you know? It's the shipping guy collector, and like, you know, what he pulls together for himself.

30:31Jawad Mir100%. I wanted to sort of, touch on two more things. So you talked about Comic Con. What are you guys doing at Comic-Con, and why not launch this product, or at least the pre-order date, around that?

30:49Tom SpinaSo, good pair of questions. So what we're doing at the show is, what's called the Lucasfilm High-End Collectibles Update panel. We're, we've been a part of that for the last few years running. Brian Merton from Lucasfilm runs that, and it's basically where the sort of top-of-the-top, high-end collectible companies come together and announce to folks what they're gonna be doing the next year. Or for us, you know, at least a small batch of the things that we're gonna be doing the next year, because we always wind up having so much more. That actually answers the second question, which is why didn't we save this for Comic-Con? We have too much coming that we could push anything else off. So we actually…

31:36Tom Spina... We have this coming out.

31:37Jawad MirI figured.

31:37Tom SpinaWhich is... So yeah, this is available now, and then around July 1st, we actually have another indie piece coming. Something really unexpected, something very us, something that is, it's gonna be all crafted by the artists in our art shop in New York. It's, it's really cool. It's something I have never seen done. Usually with indie stuff, like, there's usually like, "Oh, I've seen a fan-made version of that," or, "I've seen someone do that." it's based on something we saw at the archives. It's super unusual for a licensee, super unusual, really for anyone, and I can't wait to spring that on folks. But even that, we're not saving for Comic-Con. That said, I think what you can imply from that is that we do have some very interesting stuff to show at Comic-Con as well. A couple of pieces in particular that I'm really excited about for Star Wars, a few pieces for Indiana Jones as well. I would expect, I think last year we debuted eight or nine pieces.

32:39Tom SpinaMaybe this year it'll be five or six, but, actually now that I'm thinking about that's actually probably low, because I know, one or two of these things that we're gonna be showing, certainly on the Star Wars side, are really almost lines, quote, unquote. So it w… it'll be like, you know, maybe it's one slide, but it'll be showing two or three products that are gonna be coming. So we... I don't wanna go too far by accident and say anything more.

33:08Jawad MirThat's fine. So for the July 1st, product…

33:13Tom SpinaYeah

33:13Jawad Mir... Can you give a reference to which indie film?

33:18Tom SpinaNot yet.

33:20Jawad MirNot yet. Okay. Got it.

33:22Tom SpinaNo. Once…

33:22Jawad MirSpeaking…

33:23Tom SpinaOnce this one's in the can, so, you know, probably ba… by mid-June we'll be able to talk…

33:28Jawad MirYeah. No

33:28Tom Spina... A little bit about that. We don't like to tease things too early. You know, it's, it's,.. There is a, there's a sort of wave of excitement that comes from something new coming out, and there's always so much getting thrown at collectors, whether that's stuff that comes up in the parks, stuff that fans are making, stuff that places like we're making, other licensees, you know, exclusives with, oh gosh, like Hallmark or whatever, people doing ornaments and things. So it's real easy for people to get excited about one thing and then, you know, "Oops, I spent all my money on something else." So we'll try and…

34:05Jawad MirYeah

34:05Tom Spina... We try and keep it a little tighter these days than we used to. We used to try and announce earlier. Now we're, it's, it's a mix. But I do, I like to at least give people, like, the, "Hey, another indie thing's coming around here," and if you like what we've done in the past, you're probably gonna like…

34:21Jawad MirYeah

34:21Tom Spina... What we do in the future.

34:24Jawad MirAnd I think it makes sense because even 10 years ago, things were a lot different, and people's attention span is so short, and there's so much information out there that, I mean, I forget about things that are coming out e… even…

34:36Tom SpinaYeah

34:36Jawad Mir... As big as a f… as a film, right? Like, you know…

34:40Tom SpinaYeah

34:40Jawad Mir... It's, it's, it's a, it's a good move. And I, you know, when, before we, when we started this conversation, we were talking about the, to Ark, and, I happened to re-watch Indiana Jones and King of the Crystal Skull again after…

34:54Tom SpinaOh, yeah

34:55Jawad Mir... Watching this, three, four weeks ago. And, while you were talking about that, because there's the Ark reference in that…

35:01Tom SpinaRight

35:01Jawad Mir... Film in the beginning.

35:03Tom SpinaYeah.

35:03Jawad MirAnd I, now, I don't know if this product is already out. Maybe I'm behind. Maybe you guys have done it or somebody else. What about the Crystal Skull?

35:11Tom SpinaYou know, the Disney parks put out a version of that's actually…

35:16Jawad MirThey did. Yeah

35:16Tom Spina... Really good. It's, it's probably,.. It's m… I'm just talking theoretically here 'cause I don't have one in front of me.

35:27Jawad MirYeah.

35:27Tom SpinaBut my recollection is it's a tiny bit undersized from the original. M… I don't know if I would say dramatically, but it, to me it feels a bit undersized. And, the finish is similar, but there's some distressing and stuff that isn't on there. But it's, it's a really great piece, and it's so cheap. I don't, I don't remember the price offhand, but I remember looking at it and going like, "You know, for a smaller licensee like us," I just look and I go like, "H… how do you..." I, it helps that when it's a parks piece, they're not paying themselves royalties and stuff like that…

36:01Jawad MirYeah. Yeah. Yeah

36:01Tom Spina... I'm sure. But it really, it's, it's astounding some of the prices they've done on the parks stuff. Not that I should go off selling their stuff for them. Go to Regal Robot, buy our stuff instead. But we love Disney. It's great. You're talking.

36:13Jawad MirYeah. No, I mean, it makes sense because sometimes, you know, th… like you said, like they... For you to produce something and it's probably maybe a little bit better for somebody, a lot of people, it may not be worth it to spend more money, right? And then you guys have to…

36:27Tom SpinaIt is, yeah

36:28Jawad Mir... Put so much money in.

36:29Tom SpinaIt's a sliding scale. Like, I think the,.. I like to think that, you know, if we're gonna put something out, it's gonna be the best of the best.

36:39Jawad MirYeah.

36:39Tom SpinaWhich is, you know, a bold thing to say, and I'm not trying to brag on anything. I'm just, you know, if we're gonna do it, we only wanna do it if we can do it right. And…

36:50Jawad MirYeah

36:51Tom Spina... What you're saying is true, though. If you have a piece that's out there, and it's an, a seven on a scale of 10, and we put one out that's an eight or a nine, is that difference gonna be enough for someone to wanna buy the new one? Or, you know, and trade up. Usually people don't push to trade up until they get, you know, a real dramatic difference. Either the piece they've had is, you know, falls short dramatically, or the piece that's coming out is just, you know, knocks your socks off. Or does something different that the other one doesn't do, whether it's an authenticity thing, whether it's a lineage thing, or, you know, some sort of, the effect or things like that.

37:35Jawad MirElectrolumines…

37:35Tom Spina... We put a ton of thought into that. It's, it is…

37:37Jawad MirYeah

37:37Tom Spina... It's a thing that we run into a lot in terms of, you know, whether, you know, there is a l… another licensed version of something out there, whether there was a licensed version from 20 years ago that people still have or is available on the secondary market, whether there's some fan-made version of it. You know, there's a lot of people we're competing with for money. There's a lot of people we're competing with for shelf space. There's, you know... And in, and in terms of when you're just talking about the collector's dollar, now you're, you're competing not just with indie, you're competing with everything these people collect. Because nobody collects just one thing.

38:14Jawad MirEverything else.

38:15Tom SpinaYeah.

38:15Jawad MirYeah.

38:16Tom SpinaSo, you know, and that also goes into…

38:18Jawad MirYeah

38:18Tom Spina... Our timing with stuff, and wanting to, you know, space things out a little bit when it's something that's bigger. And maybe the smaller stuff you can hit a little more rapidly. Yeah. This is, this is all... These are very long conversations we have at the shop all the time.

38:36Jawad MirYeah. No, I bet. Then it's, it's just one of those things where you have to, you know, make sure that maybe in about 20, 25 years or maybe even less, maybe 10, 15 years, maybe Disney Parks is not selling it. And then…

38:49Tom SpinaRight

38:49Jawad Mir... Maybe you can make, you know, make something that's more…

38:51Tom SpinaYeah, maybe there's room for that.

38:53Jawad MirYeah. So…

38:54Tom SpinaYeah

38:54Jawad Mir... That's, I would pr…

38:56Tom SpinaNo, it's a cool piece. I mean, you know, in terms of the, you know, c… certainly from that film, I mean, that's the piece.

39:03Jawad MirYeah.

39:04Tom SpinaIn a sense, if somebody wants a Kingdom of the Cryst… Crystal Skull prop, though, you know, the Ark made an appearance, so technically…

39:11Jawad MirIt is

39:11Tom Spina... That cherubim is technically, it's a twofer. It's, it's in both of them, so

39:17Jawad MirGood point. I like…

39:18Tom SpinaThere you go

39:18Jawad Mir... That plug-in.

39:20Tom SpinaYeah.

39:20Jawad MirAwesome. No, that's, that's really exciting, man. You know, it's, incredible what you guys do.

39:26Tom SpinaThank you.

39:27Jawad MirLike I said to you last time, I'm not, I'm not as over the top, if you wanna use that word, Indiana Jones fan, but I, in terms of collectibles, but I do appreciate, all the stuff that's out there because it reminds a lot of us. And the reason people get stuff is because it just reminds them of their childhood and the, probably the best time of their life. And what you guys are doing is re… and, you know, sort of giving that rebirth and making people feel, remember their better days. Not that their life is not great now…... But just, you know, overall…

39:58Tom SpinaYeah

39:59Jawad Mir... It's a different…

39:59Tom SpinaListen, I…

39:59Jawad Mir... Side of life and different set of circumstances.

40:02Tom SpinaThat's it. No, and there's, th… that's, that's beautifully said. And I'm, you know, honored that's how you think about it. I think that's, that's the best thing you could give someone.

40:15Jawad MirI'm, I'm glad, man. Th… keep doing what you guys are doing.

40:17Tom SpinaThank you.

40:18Jawad MirI'm ex… I'm excited about the July 1st.

40:21Tom SpinaYeah.

40:21Jawad MirYou got me really curious now. You got me really curious now.

40:25Tom SpinaAfter the recording stops, I'll give you a hint. How about that?

40:28Jawad MirSounds good. Sounds good. Awesome, man. Thank you so much for joining. I appreciate it.

40:32Tom SpinaThank you. Yeah, it was a good time.