Decorating 'Bridgerton' Series, Natalie Papageorgiadis

0:00Jawad MirHas there been ever a moment when you watch the finished product and it probably wasn't to the way your team…

0:07Natalie PapageorgiadisOh

0:07Jawad Mir... Had sort of worked on it? And does that maybe bother you or like, "Okay, it is what it is," you know, just…

0:13Natalie PapageorgiadisSometimes you watch things, and as a, as a creative person, o… often I think we sometimes are a bit harsh on ourselves as well. Like, so sometimes I watch back on things that I've worked on and I think, "Oh, that I maybe would've changed this or that." But I have to say, for a show like Bridgerton, which in the end is eight hours long, there's hardly anything really. Hardly... It's all very, ti… tiny things. And then you just think, "Well, I've spotted it, but no one else has probably."

0:43Jawad MirYeah. Welcome back everyone to another episode of Kingdom of Dreams podcast, the making of stories, the making of films. I'm your host Jawad Neer. Today my guest is Natalie, set decorator from the Bridgerton series, and we broke down different episodes, different scenes, and how she was able to execute all the work with her team, and the challenges that they faced, how they overcame them. An excellent conversation. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Natalie, set decorator of Bridgerton series. And was this your f… first season or you had been there from the beginning?

1:25Natalie PapageorgiadisSo, yeah, I've been there from the beginning. Season one and two I was assistant set decorator to Gina Cromwell, who's, my mentor. And then, yeah, Gina and, Will Hugh Jones, the designer of, season one and two, they, decided that, you know, they wanted to go off and do other things. So, yeah, it was interesting because I actually wrote an email to, Sarah Fisher, one of the producers, and I said, "I know Gina and Will are leaving, but, I'd like to stay." And I wasn't really thinking about which capacity at that point. Yeah, and she said, "Oh, great, that's music to my ears." And yeah, and then I had another chat with Gina and then she said, "Well, yeah, you should be set decorator." So then for s… then I went on to be set decorator for season three, and then was set decorator for season four as well.

2:27Jawad MirThat's awesome. So that moment when you found out that you're going to be the set decorator, right? Obviously from a professional standpoint and personal, it gives you that kind of happiness that, "Okay, you know, I'm moving up in world," you know, for the, for, from a career standpoint. But was it also nerve-wracking to be sort of in that position where more responsibility falls on your shoulder?

2:54Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah, of course, a bit. Def… I mean, yeah, of course that's there. But, yeah, I was more e… more e… more excited overall… ... Than scared. I was just to… really up for it, you know? Just totally up for it. And, yeah, of course a little bit of, there's a bit of anxiety. But, because, I'd already been on the show for two seasons, it felt like, you know, it was, it was a world that I knew and felt comfortable with. So yeah, it was just a exciting, felt like a good natural progression for me personally. And yeah, you know, just very excited and it's always great to have, you know, somebody like Gina in your network 'cause, you know, she very kindly said, you know, "You ever have any questions or anything you can always just give me a call." So yeah, that was brilliant.

3:53Jawad MirThat's awesome. Let's get down to the episode that we kinda chatted about. Well, so you and Sumi chatted about the breakdown of what we can discuss. So I'll kind of go, with the first one and see where it flows. And I think, I think you mentioned that the episode one, Lady Penwood's, drawing room, it was challenging for a number of reasons. Just to clarify that so that I have the right scene, in this is the one where she was having a conversation with Sophie, in the, in the first episode, correct? Where Lady Penwood…

4:28Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah.

4:29Jawad MirOkay.

4:29Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah, so I, yeah, I thought it would be interesting to bring up, that set anyway, and the first time we're in that set the scene is when, Lady Penwood and the girls come back from the ball. So, yeah, that's, that set was quite challenging because, it was mainly to do with just, confirming and,.. What's the word I'm looking for? Just, well, just confirming and, committing to the, to the color palette.

5:06Natalie PapageorgiadisSo that was a, that was a big thing, and generally, the look. So, all families in Bridgerton are all, every family is color-coordinated. They've all got their own kind of color direction. It kind of, that kind of, the color direction does, va… variate and, explode a little bit with the costumes. They're not always as kind of strict with it. But I think, you know, so that was an idea that was established in season one, this sort of color coding. And of course, you know, very famously Bridgerton family is the, is the, what we call the Wedgwood blue

5:50Natalie Papageorgiadis... Which was inspired by the British, traditional, crockery. So, yeah, it, so we needed a new direction for Penwood House. We needed a, and we needed something strong and interesting for Araminta, and she's our new villain. So and, you know, the color coordinating, of the, of the spaces for each family, it does, it does really help when you're watching as well. It sort of is g… there's a form follows function behind it as well, you know, as part of the storytelling 'cause, you know, sometimes you've gotta sort of feel a bit sorry for the viewers because there are so many characters, so many storylines going on. It does actually help when you're watching that you're like, "Oh, okay. Yeah." Your brain can go, "Okay, green, yellow, that's Featherington, whatever." But, you know, as of course, as the seasons go on, you need to sort of develop the color palette more, and you need to sort of maybe use slightly, a slightly different green for someone or a slightly different red for someone or whatever.

6:59Natalie PapageorgiadisYou can't, you know, always just say, "Right, this is exclusively that. This is exclusively that." but anyway, so we knew... So we always think, of course, a lot about costume and what they're doing. So we knew for Araminta she was, you know, she's mourning two husbands, so she's always in black. So and we knew, you know, she's a new villain and, so we needed something strong and severe and kinda harsh for her. And so we thought about doing something monochrome. And we thought, "Oh, you know, that could be good as well. That's something that we haven't done before." But then we were also made aware that we need to bring in a bit of a Asian heritage sort of element to her palette as well. So then that's when we thought, "Okay, well, you know, that's not, monochrome isn't very Asian." And then we were sort of... But we were told, you know, Asian general, not sort of to be specific.

8:01Natalie PapageorgiadisSo, yeah, we thought about, you know, emerald greens and reds. And, of course, you need, when you're developing the new, a new family look, it's not just colors. You, of course, you need a furniture style as well, and that kind of comes hand-in-hand with the colors. So it took some time, but, eventually we settled on, you know, using... And then, you know, we would get feedback. We'd get feedback from some of the directors that, and little notes like, it's gotta feel like a space where you feel like you, it's so, everything is so pristine that you can't ever sit on any of the furniture. You're sort of intimidated. Right. And, you know, we can't really, you can't just have black and white because that's doesn't really work on screen.

9:02Natalie PapageorgiadisSo that, all of that kind of thought process developed into, black frames for furniture, so which, you know, which they had at the time, so that's fine. So we had black, and then we looked at golds and creams. So golds and creams became our, golds and creams became our white for the white and black. And then we used the emerald greens and, red as a accent. And when you watch that scene, actually it's still very... And it, that's the other thing as well. It still needs to be very rich because of the era, 'cause she's aristocracy, and it needs to be, you know, super stylish. So and I remember I was kinda scratching my head about the furniture direction, like what would be good for her. And, so we tried to use, you know, a different look for everyone, of course.

10:02Natalie PapageorgiadisSometimes there's a bit of an overlap. But, I realized that we hadn't used, there's a style of furniture which was very en vogue at the time called Boulle furniture. It's a French term. And it's, mainly black lacquer and red detailing with gold accents. And I just remember thinking, "Well, we haven't used that," and it's perfect for her because it sort of has a little bit of an Asian feel as well. So that was good. That was, that was a happy sorta accident, happy coincidence. And then we, you know, added more of the black and white in there. We painted marble tops black and white. Of course, that's totally acceptable to have that on a set. And yeah, it was good in the end. It was, it was a, it was a sort of difficult process, but it was really good in the end, and we had a lot of fun with it in the end. We were, we nicknamed those console tables that we painted, we nicknamed them the Cruella de Vil tables…...

11:09Natalie PapageorgiadisBecause they reminded us of her coat. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, "Oh, yeah. Put the Cruella de Vils over there." and then, it's just, and then, also her tea set. Her tea set, her family tea set is black and white with a gold accent, and it's kind of, you know, a bit more modern-looking, but it just looks really slick. And it's quite exciting when you're putting a set together, when you find objects or furniture directions and you see them. Then you're like, "Oh, yeah. That's so them." You know? You try to express the character or the family within all aspects of the set, the colors, the drapery, the furniture, all objects that they're using. But it's quite exciting when you find things that are so them and that you can use them and put them in the set. That's very satisfying.

12:08Jawad MirWow, that's amazing. And, you know, it's, you mentioned Cruella de Vil. The scene which we're gonna talk about next where, Lady Penwood is with her daughters, and they're standing right next to her as sh… she's communicating with Sophie. That entire sequence reminded me of Cinderella, Disney's Cinderella.

12:24Jawad MirAnd the, Penwood reminded me of, I don't remember the name of Cinderella's mom, the Disney classic one. I'm talking about the animation one. It reminded me of that. And, it's, she... And that character has an interesting dimension to her because, you know, she seems like a cruel person. And but there is this part where, which is again another scene in a later episode, where the whole shoe, the shoe thing happens.

12:52Jawad MirAnd she, Sophie challenges her that, you know, "It's my house too."

12:56Natalie PapageorgiadisYes.

12:56Jawad MirAnd for a moment you see her getting a little vulnerable and emotional, and then she kind of comes back into her pure evilne… evilness, if you wanna call that. And I thought that was very fascinating because it was not just a one-dimensional character.

13:10Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and that set is another gorgeous set. It, you're surrounded by these bright green arsenic walls, you know, which they did do, which they did, they did use that as wall treatment at the time. But it's brilliant because obviously arsenic is poisonous and dangerous, so you're literally there encased in frightening, dangerous... You're in danger, you know? You're in danger 'cause the walls are all co… covered in this dangerous stuff. And, yeah, the shoe cabinets themselves are brilliant as well because they're so tall and they feel like they can, you know, that they're gonna go off into infinity. But, yeah, that was another really fun one. We really embellished all the details and, you know, we wanted to make it very high-end, very stylish.

14:13Natalie PapageorgiadisAnd, I remember talking to the director at the time about the placement of some of the furniture because in one of the scenes Alfie has to go and hide behind a screen, so that's quite funny when that happens. That's a little humor break. But, yeah, thousands of shoes, which, I had a little team, working away, almost like Sophie having to polish the shoes. And, we had, the Penwood crest, printed on, leather as well to put inside, as the sole of each shoe because also for camera as well, you know. You wanted to make it look neat.

14:55Jawad MirYeah.

14:56Natalie PapageorgiadisIt wouldn't look neat if you had all these shoes and they were all different colors inside, so.

15:02Jawad MirRight. I mean, I wonder with so many shoes, yes, it's part of an episode, but I mean, women love shoes. So your, y… y… your crew, was there any moment after the take or after that scene was done or before everybody was kind of like drooling and, you know, wanting to try on these shoes? W… was that…

15:22Natalie PapageorgiadisOh

15:22Jawad Mir... Ever the case?

15:23Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah, now that the show's out and it's all done, yeah, I can say yeah, there was a lot of drooling over shoes, yeah. And, m… messing about in the art department trying on shoes and things. Yeah.

15:37Jawad MirAmazing.

15:38Natalie PapageorgiadisThat was fun. But it, we had so many that in the end our hero ones we had from costume, which we put on s… sort of more the eye level. But then we had, yeah, we had to get, we had to get loads more in. But I don't know where they ended up. I didn't take any. We're not allowed to take…

15:57Jawad MirI was gonna ask you that.

15:58Natalie PapageorgiadisWe're not allowed to take any. No. I've, they're probably all in a, in a, you know those very useful boxes? Do you have those in Canada? Yeah, probably in one of those.

16:09Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

16:10Natalie PapageorgiadisPeople have paramount issues in case, she comes back.

16:16Jawad MirI know, you were, you were, in our first part of the conversation you were talking about, you know, working with the team and working with the color palette, the showrunners and all that. There's, obviously it's a collaboration, right?

16:30Jawad MirAs great as that is, sometimes all that stuff can slow things down, which is necessary at the same time, right? For, to make sure everything you get right. But from the standpoint of an artist when you're working on something, you want to get stuff done, obviously get it done right, but you don't wanna prolong it too much that intensity kinda goes away, as opposed to like an independent film where things, you know, you have limited budget and you're kinda just floating around and figuring things out. Do you prefer one or the other way? Does... I'm not talking about Bridgerton in general because I'm not trying to put you on spot. Just in general, like, does it get too much sometimes of all these little elements that have to give permission or approval and all that?

17:17Natalie PapageorgiadisIt's the job. You just gotta, we've just got to, run with it. I don't tend to think about, on a show like Bridgerton, I don't tend to think about that so much… ... Because there are so many sets going on at the same time, and they're all at different stages, that you're so busy all the time. So if…

17:44Jawad MirThat you don't think about it

17:45Natalie Papageorgiadis... If something, if you're waiting on a, sometimes you're waiting on approval for something, but you can bet your, bet your ass that there's, you know, another 10 things that you could be getting on with. So, you won't be twiddling your thumbs waiting. But, of course the longer things take to be approved, the less time you have to build and dress. But things sometimes need to change as well for whatever reason… Anything could happen, so you've got to just go with it. You've gotta just, roll with the punches and people have the right to change their minds.

18:27Natalie PapageorgiadisYou know, sometimes some crew members get upset about that. It's like, "Oh, so-and-so's changed their mind," or…... Something changed or whatever. But, you know, sometimes a character needs to completely change, or sometimes a character needs to completely disappear, or sometimes a room is painted and you think it's gonna be a certain way and then it isn't, you know? And it needs to be done again. Or sometimes curtains are put up and they just don't feel right.

18:59Jawad MirYeah.

18:59Natalie PapageorgiadisSo, of course, to, mitigate that, you always try your best to get things done as quickly as you can on your part. I was always taught from my previous career actually, which was interior design, I was always taught, "Look, you're not the last person in the chain, so you've gotta, basically you've gotta get your stuff done because you're not the last person in the chain…

19:26Natalie Papageorgiadis... And there's something else that needs to happen afterwards. So you cannot be the one holding it up." and you know, now in film, even more so, you never want to be the one holding things up.

19:38Jawad MirYeah, 100%. And I think that crew that you mentioned that, you know, they would say, "Why are we changing it?" No matter what kind of situation there is, they'll always find reason to figure out a problem with something. A… and I think that's just more of an attitude and nature thing as opposed to the situation. So you can't…

19:55Jawad Mir... Fix that in any way, right? Moving on to... I'll come back to episode three, the cottage one, but let's talk about episode six, the conservatory. Let's…

20:05Natalie PapageorgiadisAh, yes

20:05Jawad Mir... To talk about the chall… the challenges…

20:07Natalie PapageorgiadisOh, yes

20:07Jawad Mir... Behind that.

20:08Natalie PapageorgiadisThat was, that was, yeah, this, 'cause I know you wanted to talk about, yeah, things that were particularly challenging. So it's a really small, cute, little space

20:20Jawad MirYeah

20:21Natalie Papageorgiadis... In a stately home in, sort of on the way out to Heathrow, Osterley House. So and I'm saying Heathrow because when it came to shooting in there, it was, the planes were always going over.

20:39Jawad MirI was gonna say. And they fly really low if it's close to the H… Heathrow, right? Then you can't even…

20:44Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah

20:44Jawad Mir... Do that.

20:45Natalie PapageorgiadisSo I remember watching... I'm, I'm off doing other things at that point, of course, but I remember watching the rushes and Yerin and Luke were literally sitting there, you know, with their little blankets and going, "Oh, let's wait for another plane," and…... You know. So it was, yeah, it was, so that was challenging. Also, so that was at the back end of it, but even before that there was a echo sit… situation going on. We looked at putting, balloons up in the ceiling area to help with sound.

21:22Natalie PapageorgiadisWe also, the first iteration of the dress was, had a huge, curtaining sort of, detail at the back. You know, deep blue for Bridgerton and Benedict. Blue, big blue curtain legs and swags, that's what we, call the bit at the top. And yeah, it was lovely, but then it was decided actually would he have had time to put all of that up? It doesn't tell the story as w… you know, as we're thinking. So I remember getting the email to say, "Well, that all has to come down." so that's okay, so we then had to do that. But also, it was challenging because, not only because of the noise and the balloons or no balloons and the planes, it was shot on location at, we had only had, we only had sort of these short little windows to get everything done. And you return, we return there, don't we?

22:26Natalie PapageorgiadisI'm just trying to remember if it's daytime when we return there.

22:29Jawad MirIt's, it's,.. Oh, you mean the same episode?

22:33Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah, we return there later when the beautiful, romantic setting is gone.

22:38Jawad MirI think it was a bit darker, if my memory serves me right.

22:42Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah. So I think so. I think so we shoot two scene, we were shooting two scenes there. The s… the lovely romantic one, and then we had to strip it all out. I think, yes, then we had to strip it all out quite quickly to then be able to do the non-romantic version when it's just a normal potting shed. So that was cha… challenging logistically and with sound and, yeah. In terms of the look, it was fine. We knew what we wanted to do, but it was, it was challenging for the other reasons.

23:16Jawad MirRight. When you're working on any film or series, yes, you know, it's something that you love doing, it's part of your job and everything, and it takes a lot of your time because you're working on it, you know, for a couple of years at least from pre to production to, you know. Has there been ever a time when you are sort of overlapping on different projects? Do you ever do that or, you know, at least one is in the early stage, you're kind of finishing off the other one? I'm talking like a different series or different film altogether. And how do you sort of maneuver that?

23:51Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah, I... It's very involved. So I try to not overlap things. A show like Bridgerton is very involved. I mean, all film jobs are very involved, so you're trying not to overlap. I have had some overlaps in the past, and it's pretty, it's even extra exhausting.

24:17Jawad MirYeah.

24:17Natalie PapageorgiadisBut sometimes you don't have a choice because we work in the freelance world, and you have to just go with…... With what's happening. Of course you're never gonna run two jobs concurrently. But yeah, sometimes there are some overlaps. And you've just gotta deal with it, yeah.

24:39Jawad MirHas there ever been a project which you said no to because you were busy but you wanted to be on it really badly? Or you've been blessed all along?

24:50Natalie PapageorgiadisThey... I've, I've sometimes heard about jobs too late that I wanted to be on.

25:00Jawad MirOkay.

25:01Natalie PapageorgiadisThat's, that's, I mean, that happens to everyone.

25:04Jawad MirYeah.

25:04Natalie PapageorgiadisBut…

25:05Jawad MirWhat…

25:05Natalie PapageorgiadisBut when…

25:06Jawad MirWhat would those be? Do you mind sharing or you rather not?

25:10Natalie PapageorgiadisOh, all sorts. L… lots. Films, more films, 'cause I've done a lot more high-end TV.

25:18Jawad MirYeah.

25:19Natalie PapageorgiadisBut I'm a little, I'm a little kind of film geek. I've been a little fi… film geek since I was a little girl.

25:25Jawad MirYeah.

25:26Natalie PapageorgiadisSo, yeah, p… films, sort of big films. I mean, recent films that I would have loved to have been a part of are, you know, the big ones like Poor Things or, Lee I thought was pretty cool. And I actually, I actually really, I would never have gotten this 'cause it's in the States, but I actually really enjoyed, One Battle After Another.

25:49Jawad MirOh, God.

25:49Natalie PapageorgiadisIt's so…

25:50Jawad MirWhat an amazing…

25:50Natalie PapageorgiadisIt's cool, isn't it? It's so different.

25:54Jawad MirYeah. And were you supposed to be a part of it?

25:56Natalie PapageorgiadisNo. No. No, but…

25:57Jawad MirOh, I was like…

25:58Natalie Papageorgiadis'Cause listening to films that I…

25:59Jawad Mir... You shouldn't have, you shouldn't have turned that down.

26:02Natalie PapageorgiadisFilms that I would have, no, films that I would have loved to have been a part of. So

26:09Jawad MirActually, that film is so cool. I mean, aside from the story and everything, but how... I don't know if you, if you're a film geek you probably know Paul Thomas Anderson. He actually told his DP to get, like, the most basic lights that you can…

26:21Natalie PapageorgiadisRight

26:21Jawad Mir... Like vi… video lights as opposed to, like, you know, gigantic set.

26:25Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah.

26:25Jawad MirAnd I think that's what made that film work because it had that '70s feel. You know, like sort of liv… I'm imagining it's probably like a sh… smaller crew… ... As opposed to like, you know, Bridgerton or a big movie fil… a series or whatnot.

26:38Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah.

26:38Jawad MirBut yeah, an amazing, it's an amazing movie. So is Hamnet and so is Sinners.

26:42Natalie PapageorgiadisYes. I haven't seen Sinners. I need to see that. I've seen on your podcast you've been chatting to the Hamnet

26:49Jawad MirYes

26:50Natalie Papageorgiadis... The Hamnet crew.

26:51Jawad MirYeah

26:51Natalie Papageorgiadis... Yeah, I know Alice Felton, the set decorator. She's very lovely human being. And yeah, her work's beautiful. So yeah, she's a, she's a nice person to work with. And yeah, just about with One Battle A… After Another, I just, I really like the kind of Leonardo DiCaprio, Benicio del Toro, the sort of, this sort of calamity.

27:21Jawad MirYeah.

27:22Natalie PapageorgiadisAnd then the, just the hilarious, like, viva la revolution and, you know, it's just so kind of almost like a teenager kind of coming out again. So I just…

27:33Jawad MirYeah

27:33Natalie Papageorgiadis... Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Yeah.

27:35Jawad MirI remember walking out of the movie theater and I told my wife, "Sean Penn and the film are gonna win the Oscar." Especially Sean Penn because he was, I think he made the film…

27:45Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah

27:45Jawad Mir... More than, you know…

27:46Natalie PapageorgiadisSo menacing

27:46Jawad Mir... And he was so cra… You couldn't do anything…

27:50Natalie PapageorgiadisCreepy

27:50Jawad Mir... Yeah, but you just couldn't get that guy out of your head, the way he was.

27:54Natalie PapageorgiadisYes.

27:54Jawad MirThe way he portrayed that character. And with the film's actor…

27:56Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah. My partner was talking about that character a lot for d… for days afterwards. Yeah, found him really menacing and really interesting, and he's such a great actor.

28:08Jawad MirOh, yeah. I've always admired him, especially his performance in Dead Man Walking. I don't know if you've ever seen that film. I mean, that was, that was a very... It's actually probably one of the best films ever made where you actually start sympathizing with the, a person who's done something really bad, and the arc is amazing in that film. But, we'll go back to Bridgerton in a second. You're talking about film geek. I, and I know it's a very tough question when somebody asks me, what are some of your favorite films? Just…

28:36Natalie PapageorgiadisOh

28:36Jawad Mir... Whatever comes to mind, you know? I have millions of them, right? But whatever comes to mind the moment.

28:41Natalie PapageorgiadisSo as a kid, Lawrence of Arabia.

28:47Jawad MirYes. Awesome.

28:47Natalie PapageorgiadisI mean, so awesome. So awesome. And, when we were watching it probably about two years ago, my partner hadn't seen it, and I hadn't seen it for years. I used to watch it a lot with my dad, and I realized when he was watching it how much of it I remembered by heart, 'cause it just stays with you. And the…

29:09Jawad MirYeah

29:09Natalie Papageorgiadis... Some of those key scenes and key things that happen and key things that they say. But yeah, that made big impact on me.

29:17Jawad MirAwesome movies

29:19Natalie Papageorgiadis... Love that film. It's just so beautifully shot and so well acted and it's such a great story.

29:28Jawad MirIt is. It is. No, that's a c… classic film. It's a classic film.

29:32Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah. Another big one, another big epic one is, for me, is, Space Odyssey 2001.

29:38Jawad MirOf course, yeah. Of course.

29:40Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah, also another one that made huge impact, so, as it would. I mean, it's space. So, yeah, incredible. Yeah, I don't really s… watch many space movies now, actually. I'm trying to think of the last kind of spacey one I've watched, but…

29:59Jawad MirI mean…

29:59Natalie Papageorgiadis... Enjoyed

30:00Jawad Mir... I saw, what did I see? I just saw Project Hail Mary, which was actually really good, which I highly recommend that you see it.

30:07Natalie PapageorgiadisOh, yeah.

30:08Jawad MirWith, what's his name?

30:11Natalie PapageorgiadisRyan Gosling.

30:12Jawad MirYes. Thank you. He's Canadian. I should know his name.

30:14Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah.

30:14Jawad MirRyan Gosling. But, you know what you should really watch if, unless you already have, I haven't st… seen Yellowstone, but I've seen 1923, 1883, which are amazing series.

30:27Natalie PapageorgiadisOh, yes.

30:28Jawad MirBut this m…

30:28Natalie PapageorgiadisYes. Seen both, yeah

30:31Jawad MirBut this new one that just came out that has nothing to do with that universe, The Madison, with Michelle Pfeiffer…

30:36Natalie PapageorgiadisOoh

30:36Jawad Mir... And Kurt Russell, I cannot recommend that enough. It's an…

30:40Natalie PapageorgiadisOh, I…

30:40Jawad MirIt's six parts. I think there are b… more coming down the road, but it's amazing. Beautifully shot, music, performances… ... Dialogue, screenplay. It... As a film nerd, you will, you will love it. You will appreciate it. And it's about a dysfunctional family essentially, but it's really well done. Going back to Bridgerton, Episode 3, the study…

30:59Jawad Mir... And the ca… cottage. Talk about the challenges, you know, where you talked about, cottage in general, where you talked about, Benedict's spaces are punctuated throughout the series and help describe his evolution as a character. So just k… talk about the, Episode 3 and all that stuff that you, the challenges that you went through with the cottage.

31:20Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah. So the cottage was, challenging in the sense that because it's so big. So it's a big area to cover. But it... I thought maybe we could talk about that mainly because it's so poignant, that scene in the study.

31:43Natalie PapageorgiadisIt's only, it's only a small set. But, it was really important. It's in the, it's in the, it's in the script, and it's really important in the story because, it's when Sophie discovers more about Benedict and, they are getting closer to one another in the, in the story, and she discovers all these things about him. And it was in the... It was a very poignant scene in the script as well because it, was highlighted that we need to find all these different props, that, you know, tell us about him and hi… him when he was younger and the kind of struggles that he's gone through as a person and a… an artist who's still trying to find himself. So the anchor, if you like, for that scene was Benedict and his unfinished projects.

32:46Natalie PapageorgiadisSo, the interesting element to that scene was, yeah, getting all those bits together. So we have an unfinished painting and, a sculpted head that he hadn't finished on a, on a pedestal, a screen that he started that he didn't finish painting, other sketches and drawings, and then of course the kite, which, is, comes into play as well in the story, and they fly a kite together and then he talks about his relationship with Gregory. So yeah, that was, I would say, poignant maybe more than challenging. But, yeah, throughout the, throughout the show, throughout Season 4, we're picking up Benedict along the way in all his different spaces.

33:42Natalie PapageorgiadisSo in his bachelor's apartment, the cottage, and then he's, he's in Anthony's old study as well. And, also in Episode 1, the demimonde. The demimonde was super cool. I really loved, working on that. That, for me, I saw that as an e…... That's an extension of his world.

34:07Natalie PapageorgiadisSo yeah, it just, it just had to be really cool. It had to be really sexy. It had to be really seductive and alluring. And yeah, I really enjoyed that. I think it was, it was... Funnily enough, it's the same location where we shoot, the Bridgerton foyer for their house, a place called RF Hulton. But, unfortunately part of the ceiling collapsed, so we weren't able to go back there for part of the filming later on in the series. But so the space itself was relatively small. But yeah, we, you know, we dressed it up. We jazzed it up. And, yeah, so that's, that's, that's another element to him. So we've got the demimonde. We've got his bachelor's apartment. We've got my cottage, which was huge. But, that tells a story in a totally different way.

35:09Natalie PapageorgiadisIt's got naturally, it's naturally got all this beautiful wood paneling, and it's nice that the wood paneling works well with blue… ... Which we need for Benedict, as he's a Bridgerton. So that was nice way to sort of develop that with the blues and golds and the, and the timber. And well, I'm sure we go somewhere else with him as well. Oh, he also has his own bedroom in the Bridgerton house. And then, yes, we're in the conservatory. So there's a lot happening. There's a lot of spaces for him. There's a lot going on throughout the show which, show the evolution of his character. His bachelor pad is quite different to my cottage. My cottage is his private space, where he can be very sort of just himself and honest and open and creative, and that's where he draws back to be a creative person. And then, you know, again, sort of linking to that, the Crabtree kitchen, which we have as well, at my cottage, it's, that's a lovely space as well, and that was shot at a different location but, yes, meant to be the same house.

36:35Natalie PapageorgiadisBut we actually end up having three kitchens In, or at least three, maybe even more, in season four. So we've got the huge Bridgerton complex, which, all s… all singing, all dancing. That was great. W… that was a build. Then also we've got, as a complete contrast, we've got the Penwood kitchen. I think that features in episode one and two. And that's completely, a complete contrast and completely different to the Bridgerton kitchen. It's very dark. It's very small. The apparatus is meant to be more old-fashioned and all pewter and dark metal, whereas Bridgerton is bright and airy and, a lovely sort of nice warm timber tone. And then, yes, an extension of that is then the Crabtree kitchen, which is also bright and lovely and warm and welcoming.

37:36Natalie PapageorgiadisAnd his, yeah, his bachelor pad was, is just full of his eclectic things that he sourced, has, not sourced, but, you know, he's just, he's got an eclectic collection of things and he might do some art there, but he's more like to throw a party, which we see at the beginning. And that was another really fun one to do where, I, when I started thinking about that set, it was, I came across an image of, s… a lovely s… autumnal sort of drawing on a wall paneling. So we, and we all loved that. So we started with that, and then we have the more of an autumnal theme in Bridgerton, for season four. So that was just a nice idea to sort of use as the first kind of anchor for that set, because, yeah, may… maybe he would've painted the panels in his bachelor apartment.

38:42Natalie PapageorgiadisI mean, why not? He's aristocratic. He can do whatever he wants. And then, I always pictured a four-poster bed for him. But actually it's not very useful for filming, and then reading the script as well, there's a lot in the beginning especially that happens, the action a… around the bed, Violet discovering him and everything. So it needed to be a different style bed. But yeah, his bachelor apartment begain… began with, the wall paneling idea, then the bed, and then we thought more about the colors and all the eclectic things that he has and, that was, you know, the, it had to be a very bohemian, artistic, creative space, and it was nice to have, it was nice to have the different spaces for him because that really, not only does it help the viewer, but it just makes it very clear then that there's…

39:49Jawad MirOf course

39:49Natalie Papageorgiadis... An evolution going on, so.

39:52Jawad MirAnd it's interesting you mention that because audiences consciously, most of them probably don't see that. But I think if they watch it the second time or the third time… ... They'll pick on those things, and I think that's cool. That's really the best part about our craft is that when people don't notice things for the sake of noticing it, like, you know, when people don't notice a cut or great lighting, I think that's a compliment to the craft, that it's so seamless and invisible. So yeah, I completely, I completely understand. I just sort of wanna wrap up with one generic question, and I'm sure this has happened gazillions of times, right? Whether it's on Bridgerton or anything else. The director says, "Action," the scene begins, and you're kinda just sitting there, and you're looking at all the fine details that you and your team have sort of put together, and something is off. And s… instead of waiting, maybe even at the, after the end of the take, do you go to your, to the director or the production designer, whoever you're sort of communicating with, that, "Hey, this was off," or do you, have you ever felt sort of nervous, like, "Should I tell them or should I not? The take was great." You know what I mean?

41:02Jawad MirLike that kind of a moment. Has that happened more than quite often or at all?

41:07Natalie PapageorgiadisWell, we have, well, it doesn't quite happen like that because I am not alway… I'm not around…

41:15Jawad MirAlways on set

41:16Natalie Papageorgiadis... For all the, for all the filming.

41:17Jawad MirYou're done with it, right? You're a set decorator…

41:19Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah

41:19Jawad Mir... And you're gone. Yes.

41:20Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah. So, yeah, traditionally you're around the first time a set is shot on to make sure everybody's happy or if in case anything extra…

41:31Jawad MirSure

41:31Natalie Papageorgiadis... Is needed. But then you're, you're off doing other things. But our system in the UK, we have, somebody, on set called the standby art director. So they're the spokesperson for the art department. They're the, they're the, in between the, or the go-to for the shooting crew, art department or set decoration-wise. So it would be them looking out for those things, and then needing to make the call on to change it or leave it or communicate with the designer or the director, yeah.

42:11Jawad MirSo let me rephrase that. Has there been ever a moment when you watch the finished product and it probably wasn't to the way your team…

42:22Natalie PapageorgiadisOh

42:22Jawad Mir... Had sort of worked on it? And does that maybe bother you or is like, okay, it is what it is? You know, just, I, it, we're all human beings at the end of the day, you know, we have our own individuality. It's a collaborative effort, but we also have our individuality, right? So anything ever like that happen? Again, I'm not trying to put you on spot, I'm just…

42:40Natalie PapageorgiadisNo

42:41Jawad Mir... Curious.

42:41Natalie PapageorgiadisNo, all good. No, luckily no. I mean, sometimes you wa… sometimes you watch things and as a, as a creative person o… often I think we sometimes are a bit harsh on ourselves as well, like. So sometimes I watch back on things that I've worked on and I think, "Oh, that I maybe would've changed this or that." But I have to say, for a show like Bridgerton, which in the end is eight hours long, there's not. There's hardly anything really. Hardly, it's all very, ti… tiny things. And then you just think, "Well, I've spotted it, but no one else has probably spotted it."

43:24Jawad MirYeah.

43:24Natalie PapageorgiadisYou know, y… y… and then I remember, Gina used to say to me sometimes with some things, "Well, you know, if somebody's spotted something, they can write in and we can send them a T-shirt, and we can say, 'Well done, you spotted it.'" 'Cause things sometimes, things sometimes happen, conti… little continuity things or whatever.

43:43Jawad MirYeah.

43:45Natalie PapageorgiadisBut not, and overall everyone's pretty damn good, so not, it doesn't, it's, it's very rare, yeah, very rare.

43:52Jawad MirThat's a nice way of tackling that, sending a T-shirt. I mean, you're kind of, kind of…

43:58Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah.

43:58Jawad Mir... Saying in one way, "You know what? We understand what you're saying, but thank you," and making them happy at the same time. But…

44:04Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah

44:04Jawad Mir... The continuity thing, I remember it used to bother the hell out of me in the '90s and the early 2000s. I think one of the most memorable thing for me were continuity. There's a scene in Saving Private Ryan, which I'm sure you have seen, when Tom Hanks' character, is with his crew and he t… he tells everybody he's a teacher, you know, when they're all fighting with each other. And so there's a shot, like a medium shot, where Tom Hanks' hands go down, goes down while they're finished talking, and it cuts to another shot and the talk is still con… continuing on, and the hand is back up and it goes down again.

44:39Natalie PapageorgiadisOh.

44:40Jawad MirSo s…

44:41Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah, I mean…

44:41Jawad MirIt happens, right?

44:42Natalie PapageorgiadisThese things happen, yeah.

44:43Jawad MirAnd I, and I only notice it because I saw it three times in the movie theaters. So you pick up on those things…

44:49Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah

44:50Jawad Mir... After the first viewing, right? So but it's, there's a lot of continuity errors, no matter how many continuity crew people you have on the set. It's just, you know, part of the game, but barely people notice it.

44:59Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah, barely people notice it. I did hear a rumor, I don't know if this is true, but I did hear a rumor that on, the last season of Game of Thrones, they deliberately put... 'Cause we have this thing, you know, the Starbucks coffee cup, that someone deliberately put a Starbucks coffee cup in a, in a set somewhere to see if, to see…

45:19Jawad MirYeah, so it was, it was a big news. So it…

45:22Natalie PapageorgiadisWa… was that a thing?

45:22Jawad MirYeah, it did. It was there.

45:24Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah.

45:24Jawad MirIt was there, but I wonder, nobody knows if it was deliberate because, like, a publicity stunt, but I don't know, I don't know if Game of Throne…

45:31Natalie PapageorgiadisOh

45:31Jawad Mir... If Game of Throne needed publicity stunt, because everybody was sort of up in arms. But again, like, a question becomes how do you miss a white and green cup in a dark setting? Like, how do you not…

45:41Natalie PapageorgiadisYes

45:41Jawad Mir... See that on the set as well as on camera, right? And then they…

45:45Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah

45:45Jawad Mir... Digitally removed it afterwards. So who knows why they did it.

45:48Natalie PapageorgiadisOh, yeah. So there you go. That was a thing, yeah.

45:50Jawad MirYeah. It was real or not, but, one can wonder. But anyways, you know, this has been fantastic. I really truly appreciate your time and all the details that you shared.

46:00Natalie PapageorgiadisOh, great.

46:01Jawad MirGreat show. I hope, without me asking you, without you telling me, you're working on the next season, if there is one. I'm not gonna ask you, I'm just saying. And, yeah, that's awesome.

46:12Natalie PapageorgiadisYeah. Thank you very much. Thanks for, thanks for your time, and thanks for your questions.