Editor Christopher Nelson, 'Lost', 'West Wing' & 'Sx Feet Under'

0:00Jawad MirBut did you know about Lost? Because it became a pretty big thing, I think, after the end of the first season. Were you a fan of it as a viewer?

0:07Christopher NelsonI wasn't.

0:08Jawad MirYou were…

0:08Christopher NelsonI tried to watch it a couple of times, but I mean, the pilot I think is one of the best pilots ever made for television. And what I loved about the Lost pilot is they told me who all those characters were by…

0:21Jawad MirYeah

0:21Christopher Nelson... Watching them do something. After that meeting, went back out to my car and I called my agent and went, "You know that John Wells show? If it's still available, I'll take it." And that became w… that was my intro to West Wing. It was called The West Wing because the president was only supposed to show up every few episodes. He wasn't supposed to be the centerpiece of the show. But M… Martin tested so high it changed the tra… trajectory of the show. If you wanted to be an editor, I would tell you, just go to LA and get a job in post-production.

1:04Jawad MirTo start off with that, you know, you worked on West Wing.

1:08Christopher NelsonYeah.

1:08Jawad MirAnd when you have someone like Aaron, who has written the, basically, you know, West Wing, at the time not that popular, but his writing and dialogue style is very witty and very sort of conversational, but at the same time it keeps you engaged.

1:25Jawad MirHow was, like, how was that working... How was, like, that working as an editor on something that was so, you know, riveting and powerful? Which I know at the time he wasn't the Aaron Sorkin that we all know, but still.

1:39Christopher NelsonHe was still, you know, Aaron is probably, in hi… I would think he would even say this, in his heart of hearts, he's a playwright, you know?

1:48Jawad MirYeah.

1:48Christopher NelsonHe loves theater. And I only, I cut the pilot, and then I did one other episode. I know it was, like, episode 10 or something like that. And, the experience on the pilot was probably the best, most unique experience I've had in my whole career. Tommy Schlamme, who was the director, you know, Aaron wrote the words. Essentially their partnership that came from Sports Night was Aaron wrote the words and Tommy figured out how to translate it into a visual medium, you know? Aaron was not big on scene description, so Tommy just was like, "I gotta fill in the gaps on how w… all this and, you know, all the movement and everything." And so, even the oddity of the way I got the job, was I had worked with John Wells all the way back to a show called China Beach.

2:48Christopher NelsonAnd so I'd known John for a long time. And I got a call about a new John Wells show, and I was already committed to another pilot. So I was like, "Oh, sorry," blah. And then, you know, 'cause, Rod Holcomb, who, was be… you know, very close friend who's no longer with us, who was directing this other pilot. So Rod's doing a pilot, I'm gonna do the pilot. It was like World War II, French Resistance. And at some point, you know, it was a done deal. He was the most successful pilot director of that day. And then it was like, "Oh, the executive producer wants to meet you," you know, the showrunner. So I went and had a meeting with him. And however he said it, he made it very clear that his dec… his decision on who the editor was hadn't been made yet. And it was like, "Are you kidding me? Rod's directing it and you're gonna go against that?" So I literally, after that meeting, went back out to my car and I called my agent and went, "You know that John Wells show?

3:51Christopher NelsonIf it's still available, I'll take it." And that became w… that was my intro to West Wing. So it was a really... And the reason the position was open, oh my God, I forget the woman editor's name. She had been the editor with Aaron and Tommy on Sports Night.

4:08Christopher NelsonBut in those days, sitcom kind of formats paid more than dramatic, s… kinda substantially. And so she, they wanted her to do it because they knew her, but she didn't wanna work for the money, and so she passed, and that's how I got slotted in. You know, it's a, it was a couple of really unique turns of fate that allowed me to do, you know, get into that. And, you know, then I, then I read the script and it was like, "Oh my God," you know, "This is fantastic." And, you know, had a meeting with Tommy with which just, you know, before I got hired, which was I think more of a formality meeting than a real am I, am I gonna get the job or not, because they didn't know who else to hire and John Wells wanted me, so there you go. You know? It was kinda like that. 'Cause Tommy was kinda watching a basketball game on TV while we were having the meeting, so I knew it wasn't, like, his t… I wasn't his top priority. It was kinda funny.

5:08Christopher NelsonBut anyway, we got into shooting the show, and Tommy printed everything except the false starts. So I would probably have choices of, let's say, seven to 10 of everything. And no, and no distinction of necessarily circle takes, although as a, as a matter of course, I've learned that I don't pay too much attention to circle takes. I take it under advisement.

5:40Christopher NelsonBecause I've, I've learned through the years that, the set is a kind of a hyperreality place, and when the camera's turning, their, even seasoned directors, their perception of what it's gonna look like later in the editing room might be, maybe not be exactly what they thought it was gonna be. But anyway, So, you know, they obviously we know they shot a lot of oners, and that was my saving grace, 'cause today was a big oner, so all I had to do is pick one and cut the head and tail off, and that was my day's work. But it allowed me to devote a lot more time to the other scenes that needed more work and, or more thought.

6:25Jawad MirRight.

6:26Christopher NelsonAnd I think it's, it was one of those crazy, magical, you know, t… places in time where everybody got it. The actors got it, you know, Aaron wrote it, everybody saw that. They got what he wrote. The actors got it, Tommy got it, and somehow inherently I understood it. And I would be changing just words for inflection, 'cause, you know, like in ironic comedy, which is kind of the tone of West Wing, just the way a word is... The tone or the inflection on a word is where the, where the humor comes in.

7:08Christopher NelsonAnyway, so, i… in a nutshell, it was like... Let's see. I think I got last day's dailies on a Saturday, and I sent, in those days, a tape of the…

7:22Jawad MirYeah

7:22Christopher Nelson... Of my cut to Tommy on Sunday night, and he came in Monday, he was like super-duper happy. He s… you know, he's like, "Here is the first time I've seen a show, and it just felt like a show." But I had spent so much time combing the film, you know, that... 'Cause I f… I f… I felt the weight of the quality of the show on my shoulders, so, you know, I had to step up to the plate. And I'd, I'd worked seven days a week from the start. So anyway, he comes in Monday, he gives me not a lot of notes. He says, "I'll see you tomorrow." He comes back in Tuesday. He goes, "Good." He says, "So tomorrow Aaron's gonna come in, and don't be alarmed if he wants to change a lot of stuff, because w… you and I cannot hear what he heard in his head when he wrote it. So, you know, if he goes, 'No, not like that,' don't be offended because, you know, we… there's no way we can anticipate."

8:22Jawad MirRight.

8:22Christopher NelsonAnd then Aaron came in on Wednesday. He was totally happy with the show. We didn't change, I think, a take anywhere. And then it was like, "Well, John Wells should come in, and so he's gonna come watch the show tomorrow." And, you know, a… and John came in and said, "Oh, the show is great," blah. And he was like, "You know, we know we have a good show. Our v… now we have to figure out how to sell them the show." This is a show that it was, it was the one that defined what they called the super demographic, which was people that would buy BMWs or Mercedes, and so you would get those advertisers. So it was the first time... Anyway, we do... Ha… John, he says, "Look, you guys are g… good filmmakers. I'm not gonna give you any notes. Do what you need to do." So Friday morning we were gonna ha… We knew Friday night we were gonna have a test screening, and so we need to put some music in it, and it...

9:31Christopher NelsonThey were very much into, they wanted contemporary music. They wanted some songs and all this stuff, and I had all the music from the music supervisor, and we started laying in some music that came from the music supervisor, and it kinda wasn't working.

9:50Christopher NelsonSo I went, "Okay, so I have The American President, the score from American President and Dave in the system. I think we owe it to ourselves to just see what happens." And there's a moment, if you, if you kinda remember in the pilot, there was a scene in a bar and

10:09Christopher Nelson... And, yeah, he meets a woman. You know, the next sc… scene is the wake-up after they've, you know, spent the night together, and then he goes off, "I'm gonna meet the President of the United States." So I put... The next scene is on the seal e… of the presidency in the West Wing, and that starts our journey there. Anyway, I took, I took the opening cue from Dave and dropped it on the first frame of that thing, and it was like four minutes long, and we just played it. And I'm, you know, I'm watching the screen, those guys are behind me, and I'm going, "This seems to be working pretty good." But generally, when people have had strong desire for a certain kinda music, it's really hard for them to cut bait on their original thought and just con… be a convert to the new idea.

11:01Christopher NelsonAnyway, we finish that. I turn, I, turn around to Aaron and Tom, and Aaron looks at Tommy and he goes, "Well, I guess we're gonna have to do that, aren't we?" And that was it. And…

11:13Jawad MirThat's awesome

11:14Christopher Nelson... It was so, and it was so great. I mean, they were just so... I mean, I would say without a doubt Aaron is the smartest man I've met in the business in my career. You know, and there's a couple others that are, you know, like maybe at his shoulder or something like that, but he's, he's a really s… special, unique guy. So we then…

11:40Jawad MirInteresting

11:41Christopher Nelson... I used the score and I dumped in music all day long, 'cause we were gonna test it that night. And, we tested it and Marty Sheen tested higher than anybody in the history of their testing. At, and, you know, it was called The West Wing because the president was only supposed to show up every few episodes. He wasn't supposed to be the centerpiece of the show, hence the name…

12:08Jawad MirRight

12:09Christopher Nelson... The West Wing. But M… Martin tested so high it changed the tra… trajectory of the show.

12:17Jawad MirThat's awesome.

12:19Christopher NelsonAnd, so, you know, so we tested and then, you know, I got a couple little notes, and on Saturday, you know, basically they say, you know, "Do these notes and we're locked." And then I get a call from, like, John Wells' office on Monday, and he goes, "Oops, we forgot to show it to the network," which never happened.

12:38Jawad MirThat really is out.

12:40Christopher NelsonYeah. And as I understood it, John's, oh, his p… his, what? His importance and value power with the network was really high because ER was the highest money-making show in the history of television.

13:02Jawad MirI remember.

13:03Christopher NelsonAnd they did not wanna really pick it up and support it, and he championed it. So they were wrong, he was right. He made them more money than ever in history. So, you know... And John's not a guy to wield his weight at all, you know, he's not that kinda person, although he certainly understands it.

13:23Jawad MirRight.

13:24Christopher NelsonSo anyway, it was like we're essentially locked, and on Tuesday, two guys from the network come over and, one of them was John Landgraf, who I knew before he even got in the business, who now runs FX, right?

13:42Christopher NelsonAnd, I run the show and they go, "Oh, that's really good. Really good. Thank you very much," and they just leave. They kinda knew the party line was just to go, you know, thumbs up. And that was it. It was the easiest, shortest hour of television... Actually, it wasn't an hour, it was like 38 minutes, 'cause we cut a whole…

14:06Jawad MirYeah

14:06Christopher Nelson... We cut a whole scene out that they then reshot, shot when, the show was picked up. They shot a scene to fill the scene, fill the space for the sc… scene we took out. There w…

14:18Jawad MirTo make it 42 minutes or 43 minutes, right? I think that was the time duration at the time.

14:23Christopher NelsonExactly.

14:24Jawad MirYeah.

14:24Christopher NelsonIt was... They were like 42:20 or whatever it was, something like that.

14:28Jawad MirYeah.

14:28Christopher NelsonBut in the pilot, there was this scene where, the Maura Kelly character, she's moving into her office, and she has an assistant w… who, this woman is just a ballbuster. She runs everything, and Maura Kelly is kinda timid about that. And Aaron said he wrote that scene based on an assistant he had who he was afraid of, 'cause he thought it was, it was so funny to him. And so, you know, he wrote this scene and it just didn't work, so we took it out of the show. And when they s… shot episode one, they so… shot a new Maura Kelly introduction scene with her driving to fill that scene.

15:11Jawad MirOh.

15:11Christopher NelsonYeah. And that was it. I mean, n… I'm, n… that whole week I was working with Tommy between editor's cut and, "Oh, we're, we're locked," was, I never worked past 7:00 at night. And on a pilot, you're usually, like, almost 24/7 for weeks…

15:28Jawad MirYeah

15:29Christopher Nelson... Weeks and weeks and weeks.

15:31Jawad MirYeah.

15:31Christopher NelsonAnd it's just one of those things, when lightning strikes and every… all the stars align.

15:37Jawad MirThat's awesome.

15:37Christopher NelsonAnd, you know, and, you know, as an editor, y… you know, you're f… familiar enough with the show, the show talks is a, at a very good clip. Everybody's smart, everybody talks fast, and everything was shot like that, and there were several scenes where I thought it was too fast, and that the weight of, the weight of the circumstances on the character wasn't resonating as strong as it could, 'cause we were just rolling past it. So there was a c… several scenes where I just, I stretched frames every way I could figure out to just create even a half a second of a pause. And then at the very end, it was designed where, you know, we're in the Oval Office and, the president has just, you know, somewhat reprimanded Jo… Josh, you know, the one c… character we're following.

16:39Christopher NelsonAnd he leaves, and is, as scripted, h… you know, it just left, and then the president goes, "Margaret." He just literally calls out for his assistant right away, and that's the end of the show. It's like it never ends. And I put a, I put like a two-second pause before he called for his assistant in there, so it's just kind of a moment of "Next." You know, that was kinda how I thought.

17:04Jawad MirRight.

17:04Christopher NelsonAnd when Tommy saw the show, he said, "I never thought those pauses should've been there, and you were so right to do that." So somehow, we just... It just usually doesn't happen, and even if it does happen in some way like that, people are, when they're married to a concept, they kinda need to see all the possibilities of that concept played out before they're willing to kind of, you know, try a new avenue.

17:32Jawad MirRight. Right. I wanted to ask you, the executive who turned you down, did you ever work with him later on in your career? I don't need his name, just curious if you ever ran into…

17:43Christopher NelsonI didn't. I don't remember his name

17:44Jawad Mir... Oh, you never ran into him again or anything like that?

17:46Christopher NelsonNo, I didn't. And ironically, the pilot was fraught with problems. It was horrible. It never got picked up. And so I dodged a bullet in that one at the same time. You know, it was like I've, I've always been amazed how there are these circumstances in our careers that you cannot see or predict, you know… You know, I worked on a show years and years ago, and the... In those days, like, the head writer was called the story editor.

18:22Christopher NelsonAnd he got to direct a show. So I, you know, I liked him, and I went, "You know, if you wanna come in on the weekend and look at stuff with me, or you wanna talk at night after you're finished, I'm, I'm here for you, whatever you wanna do. It's your sh… first job directing." And he took advantage of that, and like three years later, he called me 'cause he had written and he was directing a pi… a two-hour pilot, you know? And y… you never know, I never do that stuff with the eye towards maybe something'll happen.

18:56Jawad MirLike zero expectations, basically, right?

18:58Christopher NelsonYeah, I do it because that's kinda who I am.

19:01Jawad MirRight.

19:02Christopher NelsonLike with a new director or somebody like that, you know? "I know you're, you know, you're really anxious about this. If you wanna pa… talk about dailies, if you wanna look at cut scenes and talk about them, you know, whatever you want, I'm here for you." 'Cause to a certain degree, not so much in episodic, I, you know, I look at myself as a little bit of the protector for the director.

19:27Christopher NelsonYou know? That my job is to protect them a little bit, you know? If they don't wanna be protected, it's their... You know, if they want something else, and, you know, we disagree on that, then you do what they want, you know?

19:38Jawad MirRight. Right.

19:40Christopher NelsonBut…

19:40Jawad MirNo, that makes sense. That makes sense.

19:43Christopher NelsonI mean, it's funny 'cause during the time of Lost, probably after I was a couple years into it, I got a chance to be the keynote speaker at EditFest, and m… more than jumping out of an airplane or anything, I am more horrorfoied, or horrified, or I was at that time, of public speaking than any other thing you could ask me to do. And I knew it was an Achilles' heel for me, you know? I just knew that. And so when they called and offered, I said, "Yes," now, knowing I'd totally screwed myself, and I had to do it now, you know? And you know, it was like... And it's mostly talking about you, what you've worked on, you know, you bring s… you show and tell, you bring some film, you talk about scenes, and you talk about process. You know, it's like if I can't talk about that, I can't talk about anything, you know?

20:37Jawad MirYeah.

20:38Christopher NelsonAnyway, from that, I met some people from Avid, and I, and they were just starting this program. And so I kinda became, like, their number one guy going out to colleges and film festivals and speaking about, you know, Lost or whatever it was. You know, and I promote them because I l… I like the product…

20:59Jawad MirRight

20:59Christopher Nelson... I worked on. And I mean, even to today, if you were to say, if you were a young person, in school or th… want, you wanted to be an editor, I would tell you, "Just go to LA and get a job in post-production. Get a job as a PA in post-production as fast as humanly possible," because you graduate from, you know, college and your major's gonna be editing. Nobody in the world is gonna give a shit about you as an editor, you know? In the beginning, you have to go through the same process, and there is t… You know, when I was, coming up in the business, the Editors Guild had a eight-year rule, so you had to be in the guild for eight years before you were allowed to be an editor.

21:52Jawad MirYeah.

21:52Christopher NelsonSo you... But, and now I would say most of the people I know that are assistants and become editors have spent close to that kind of time anyway…

22:02Jawad MirYeah

22:02Christopher Nelson... From the ti… You know, so it, there's a lot, a lot of time to learn hands-on, and I, and I've taught a couple of weeks at Maine Media College, and,.. What's the last word? Anyway, it's in… unimportant. And it helped focus that I don't think I can teach editing. I can... I don't think... I think in areas where you have to have a certain amount of r… just inherent taste or talent, I don't think you can teach that.

22:35Jawad MirLike rhythm, yeah.

22:36Christopher NelsonI think you can…

22:37Jawad MirYeah, you need to, you need to have a rhythm, right?

22:39Christopher NelsonYeah, I think you can cultivate it, but if somebody doesn't have it... You know, like I remember reading a book years ago, 'cause I've, I've read, like, at least at a certain point, like every book on mountaineering ever written. And this guy was a Harvard professor at this point in his life, and he'd been a climber, and he was talking about that in, you know, in teaching, English and Literature at Harvard, that, of all the people in his classes, the odds of anybody getting published is, like, 10%, maybe.

23:14Jawad MirYeah.

23:14Christopher NelsonAnd so they're all gonna go on and become professors because they're not going to do that. And I s… you know, and that's where the talent comes in, right? You know, the thing you can't teach, you can cultivate. So I started thinking about that in editing, and, you know, like if I was a DP trying to talk to you about photography, it's really easy to show what you're doing and, you know, the basics of setting up lighting and all of that stuff. But every single scene in editing is different. E… I, you know, I've done reshoot scenes where it's the exact same scene you did before, but maybe they changed, they recast one character.

23:53Jawad MirRight.

23:53Christopher NelsonAnd you go into that scene going, "I gotta get this thing done. I already cut it once. I know what to do." It is a totally different scene, and if you try to cut it the way you cut the first one, it's wrong. So, you know, rhythms are different. People are different. The way they phrase their lines are different, and, you know, everything. So you literally, I mean, as you, as you g… cut… Gain experience and years in the business like I have, I still s… every scene is a blank page. I have more tools in my toolbox than I used to have.

24:29Jawad MirYeah.

24:29Christopher NelsonBut nonetheless, it's still a puzzle from square one. You know? What are the values? What are the story values? What are the character values? Who's important at this moment in time compared to that? Oh, I don't like the way he or she said that line. How do I fix that? Oh, that overlap's all screwed up. It's not, you know... Or I have a colossal mismatch I have to deal with. You know, every scene has its own things. And…

24:56Jawad Mir100%.

24:58Christopher NelsonYou know, like in The West Wing, I can't remember the one scene, but, you know, because the nature of the show and I like ironic comedy. I don't like sitcom, look how funny I am comedy, you know?

25:16Jawad MirYeah.

25:17Christopher NelsonI like other…

25:18Jawad MirSatire.

25:19Christopher NelsonYeah, exactly. And there was this one scene, and I'm listening, I forget which character it was, but the line was, whatever the line was, and it, eh, not quite right. So I started listening to every single take of that line, even offstage, and I found one reading probably out of, like, 45 that I liked, and I put it, I stuffed it in his mouth, and it was, like, cool. And I remember when Tommy saw the show, he goes, "He said that line right." And I said, "I know."

25:57Jawad MirSo you said…

25:58Christopher NelsonHe only said it right once. I said, "I know." And so, you know, it was like that bonded us a little bit at that moment, 'cause he knew I had sc… scoured word for word the show, you know?

26:09Jawad MirSo was that, was that... When you actually did that, was the camera set on that character when he said that, or was it sort of over the shoulder or...?

26:19Christopher NelsonIt was, it could've been from the master. You know? It, I just listened to every single take of everything until I heard one that was right. And it was…

26:26Jawad MirAnd it matched his lip sync and everything.

26:28Christopher NelsonYeah.

26:28Jawad MirThat's awesome.

26:29Christopher NelsonIt was just, it was probably just a few words. You know…

26:32Jawad MirYeah, still

26:32Christopher Nelson... I tend to try to take... I mean, sometimes you can sync a whole sentence or something, but I tend to, especially when there's overlaps, and God knows West Wing is overlap city, I tend to cut in the middle of words because, you know, there'll be little sound quality changes between angles. There'll be little intonation changes or vocal quality where someone may be talking like this in one angle and talking more like this in the other angle. And so I find if you cut in the middle of a word and it, and the word sounds perfect, the change in sound has occurred before your brain can figure out something happened. You know?

27:14Jawad MirYeah.

27:14Christopher NelsonAnd then you…

27:15Jawad MirI agree. I agree.

27:16Christopher NelsonAnd I'll usually take those and I'll, I'll put them into the onstage. I'll put the... Where I cut in the wor… middle of a word, let's say, in the onstage end of his line before I cut to the new person, so I've switched son… sound takes on your face, and if I see it coming out of your mouth, my brain is telling me it's okay…

27:44Jawad MirYeah

27:44Christopher Nelson... As well. So there's these coup… couple of things that help the audience not be able to perceive you've done something there, you know?

27:53Jawad MirYeah.

27:53Christopher NelsonAnd…

27:54Jawad MirNo, I agree, and I... Go ahead, please.

27:56Christopher NelsonAnd I was gonna say, you know, you know, a lot of times in, even in West Wing, I'll find if they're overlapped, and I'll find words that weren't overlapped on both sides, and then I'll re-overlap it myself the way I want to. You know? I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's a ton of work.

28:14Jawad MirOh, it's hell. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

28:14Christopher NelsonBut it's really... But the magic of it when you achieve something is really kinda cool, where you were like…

28:19Jawad MirYep

28:20Christopher Nelson... Totally, "Oh my God, what am I gonna do here?" And then you're able to figure out a path through it. And like a lot of paths that are confusing, your first thought is almost never the one that's gonna work. It's your last thought. So you have to run the process from the most obvious to the least obvious sometimes.

28:42Jawad MirRight. Right.

28:42Christopher NelsonAnd then, and then the least obvious is more like a Hail Mary. You know, you just go, "Okay, we'll see if this works," and you go, "Huh, look at that. I didn't even notice." Moving on.

28:54Jawad MirNo, that's, that's phenomenal. I, y… you talk... I'll talk about Lost in a second, but before you do… ... Before we do, you talked about, you know, it's your story of that EP sort of telling you point blank that, "This is now in my co… ca… court, and I will decide," and you end up being on West Wing. Like, you can call it serendipity. You can call it…

29:14Christopher NelsonAbsolutely

29:15Jawad Mir... What, whatever you, whatever you want. It is so true, because I have been in spots so many times, and I'll tell you one little brief story without divulging into it too much. I was already directing this feature film called Citizen of Moria, right here.

29:29Jawad MirAnd, we were a month into it, and I go to this event, and I see this woman speaking about a group of people in northwestern part of China who are suffering human rights. I don't know if you've heard of Uyghur Muslims. And

29:43Christopher NelsonI have

29:43Jawad Mir... Right? And, I was very fascinated… ... But we'd just started production on this film.

29:49Christopher Nelsonhuh.

29:49Jawad MirAnd,.. Can you hear me okay?

29:52Christopher NelsonYeah. Let me... After we're done, I have to go to an eye doctor. Let me just see what this is.

29:56Jawad MirSure. Sure.

29:57Christopher NelsonHold on. Sorry. Hello?

29:58Jawad MirNo problem.

30:01Christopher NelsonYeah. Hi, Elliot. 11:30., I can. I can, absolutely. Make it 12:30. Perfect. Okay, take care. Bye-bye. It's so funny. I am part... I have macular degeneration in my right eye.

30:46Jawad MirRight. Right.

30:47Christopher NelsonWhich means the center of my vision in that eye is just a little gray spot, I can't see stuff. And I got part, I got into a clinical study here on macular…

30:56Jawad MirOh

30:56Christopher Nelson... Degeneration. And the guy who sets up with me, well, I'm, like, a year and a half into a three-year study, so I know him, and he always calls me, and it's like he… we've never talked before. You know, "Hi, this is Elliot, da. We do." It's not... It sh… could... Instead of, "Hi, it's Elliot. Can you make it 12:30 instead of 11:30?" "Sure." You know? But it's like, it's hard to get into that shield…

31:25Jawad MirYeah

31:26Christopher Nelson... You know?

31:27Jawad MirThat's awesome. That's hilarious. That's really good. Yeah, no, yeah, so I was working on this film a month into, and we barely were... You know, our resources were tight, and I see this woman speaking, and I'm like, "You know what?" And I go to this event for the first time in my life, it's an annual event that a lot of people I know go to, and I see her speaking, and I'm like, "You know what? This is great and everything, but we can't do it. I'm already directing this." And four weeks later, I go to UK for an event, which is always n… also an annual event, for the first time in my life, and she's there. And, I run into this guy who I'd met six years prior, who had told me, like an investor, that one day we will work together on some project. So he just sees me randomly in this place. He pulls me on the side, and he tells me that, "Meet her, see if you guys can figure something out. I'll do the backing." Right? And I ended up making that film right here, I-In Search of My Sister. And if I had not said yes to that, the amount of doors that have opened up for me in the last seven years, I can't even tell you.

32:30Jawad MirRight? Maybe they would have opened anyways, but I'm just saying that how the, how life sort of navigates you, forces you to make certain decisions even if you don't want to.

32:40Christopher NelsonA… absolutely. It's like, you know, we've seen in a movie or something where somebody's... You know, they're delayed going, y… leaving home, and the delay saves them from stepping off the curb and getting hit by a bus, you know?

32:53Jawad MirRight. Right.

32:53Christopher NelsonThere are, there are these paths in our lives that there is no way we can calculate. And, you know, and fortuitous and sometimes not, you know?

33:03Jawad Mir100%.

33:04Christopher NelsonBut, you know…

33:05Jawad Mir100%

33:05Christopher Nelson... I've always looked at, you know, everybody I've worked with. You know, I mean, you know, you don't know what the possibilities are, so do not close the door, you know? You know, my…

33:19Jawad MirDon't burn your bridges. Don't burn your bridges.

33:22Christopher NelsonI burned a bridge when I left Mad Men.

33:25Jawad MirOkay.

33:25Christopher NelsonYou know, because I was just leaving, and it was simply a product of simple e-economics for me. It was like, you know, I was on the show, and I forget what was... I think a TV movie or a pilot was coming up, and I w… it was, like, towards the end of the season. So I w… I went and told... And I just... You know, I knew if I stayed on the show, then I would have a whole long time off before something else came. And at that point in time, you know, I needed a income stream 'cause, you know, I think, you know, un… unless you're in the upper echelon of, let's say, feature editors, you know, we never get offered more than one job at a time. So it's either I'm gonna pass and take my chances or sign me up, you know? And so I quit Mad Men, and I told Matt, and I thought he would... You know, it was all economic, blah, you know? And he was so totally not understanding.

34:26Christopher NelsonIt was like... And then somebody I talked to said, "W… why burn the bridge when you can nuke the whole river?" You know?

34:35Jawad MirThat's a nice way of putting it.

34:36Christopher NelsonAnd that's probably one of the few times I've ever done... You know, actually burned a bridge like that, and I wasn't even trying to.

34:44Jawad MirYeah. That's what I'm saying, but that was not your intention. That was just the way the circumstances unfolded.

34:48Christopher NelsonYeah. And as it turns out, I've nev… you know, nothing would have come of staying and working with him after that anyway, you know? His career has not been on fire. But he made a fortune off Mad Men.

35:04Jawad MirYeah.

35:04Christopher NelsonI remember w… we were working, and we saw they'd... When they, when they renewed one season, you know, he got, like, a $40 million contract. And I re… was leaving one night, like, at 7:00, and I walked past him. He was on his way to the set. He goes, "Oh, you're leaving. Well, I have to stay here and work." And I was thinking, "Pay me $40 million, I'll stay and work," you know?

35:29Jawad MirOh, that's hilarious.

35:31Christopher NelsonYou know, it's, it's such... It's so hard to kinda navigate that world between labor of love and eco…

35:38Jawad MirAnd pay

35:38Christopher Nelson... Economic necessity.

35:39Jawad MirYeah. Yeah, I know.

35:40Christopher NelsonRight? And I think…

35:41Jawad MirWe all go, we all go through it, and we're all going through it every single day.

35:45Christopher NelsonYeah. And, you know, if you, if you looked at my whole career and, you know, my resume, and we went through it, I would say, "This one was junk, this one was junk," and every seven or eight years, something really good popped up, you know? But there's... It's just the way it is. You know, I think I have s… seven Emmy nominations in a 50-year career. So you go, "Okay, so I got 1.3 per decade," you know? It's not like you're totally... You know, it's just longevity.

36:16Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

36:16Christopher NelsonYou know?

36:19Jawad MirM… And I think the keyword is longevity. You just gotta keep going, right? Like, you know, whether you or anybody else is winning awards or not, right? Like, you look at Samuel Jackson, I think he made his breakthrough at the age of 45 or something.

36:31Jawad MirRidley Scott directed his first feature film at the age of 40. He's 88 now. I mean, look what he's done, right? So, a… and I think what happens to a lot of people Is that Seth Rogen said it really well, is that there's... When you're, when you're in our business, you have two options. It's a very cliched thing, but it's a very commonsensical thing, too. Either you give up, right? And if you give up, you're 100% not gonna make it. But if you don't give up, there's a chance you might make it, right? So you just gotta keep going with that intention of, you know, making one film. Like, the first film that I directed, I funded myself. I have a feature documentary. I put my own $100,000, and it made up $0. But it made me... It gave me a portfolio that I got the investors for the next film and so on and so forth. It's just like a journey you have to keep going.

37:24Christopher NelsonYeah, you understand the risk reward, you know? I mean, it's way greater for you than for me 'cause I've, you know, just always been a freelance film editor, you know, once I left Universal. And, you know, you j… there's just... You never know what's coming up, you know? During s… you know, this... Since COVID, this business has been so upside down, and then strike after strike, you know?

37:51Jawad MirI know. AI and shortage of work, economy and everything.

37:55Christopher NelsonYeah, I don't... I've talked with a couple of, you know, several people, and, like, my assistant, who's absolutely ready to be an editor right this very second, he just needs, m… you know, the right opportunity. I've been able to get him, share credit with him on the last two shows I've done.

38:14Christopher NelsonSo he's starting to build a resume, you know, 'cause who's gonna take, you know... I… if you're an editor in television in particular, let's say, you know, how I would explain it to people is no one's gonna take a chance on you just 'cause they like you. They wanna feel relatively comfortable that they're not gonna get pooed on.

38:37Jawad MirScrewed over. Yeah.

38:39Christopher NelsonYeah. And so you have to be in a situation on a show that's gonna have some longevity, so you have enough time to build a relationship with the showrunner, so when they go, "God, look what this person's doing. Let's give him a j… a shot next year," it's... There's a s… there's a show there to give a shot to, you know? It's, it's a really narrow needle to thread nowadays, you know? And

39:07Jawad MirYeah

39:07Christopher Nelson... And working remotely probably doesn't help that process. I mean, even before that, when I, you know, when I worked at Universal, you know, it was a film factory. I started my career there, and they had 20 hours of primetime television a week. So that made, you know, three editors per show, so that was 60 editors and 60 assistants. Pretty…

39:29Jawad MirGood Lord, what year was this?

39:31Christopher NelsonThis would've been 1970-ish.

39:35Jawad MirOkay. Okay.

39:35Christopher NelsonYou know, all the way to the point I think I became an editor... There was an eight-year rule, and I became an editor in 7 years and 10 months. They made an exception because I was close and the roster was full.

39:50Jawad MirYeah.

39:51Christopher NelsonEven though I had a couple…

39:53Jawad MirI mean…

39:53Christopher Nelson... Offers.

39:53Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

39:55Christopher NelsonSo, you know, there was y… there was a lot of people to learn from. You were all in the same place, and there was a lot of product. So a lot of product also gave you more opportunities of who you might work with if there's 60 editors. I'd try to wank… you know, finagle myself to work with this editor instead of this editor, because this editor lets their assistants cut, and this one doesn't, you know? But now, I mean, even before I started working remotely, there's an awful lot of the time you j… you're just in a room by yourself in a building somewhere. You know, it's not like it's collegial when you've got,.. You know, like on Lost, we were all post-production was together in, you know, on one f… half of one floor. Even VFX were on our floor, or at least the VFX supervisor. And there was definitely benefit to that. I would ask the VFX supervisor stuff, like when I was going to get a cup of coffee, and he'd come in, and I had just been... I'm, I'm in the middle of stewing on some problem, you know?

40:56Christopher NelsonAnd so it's like, "Can I show you something? Could you do blah?" Where I would never have picked up the phone to call them that, you know, to ask them that. But, you know, so there are benefits to just kind of being around each other.

41:11Jawad Mir100%.

41:12Christopher NelsonNot that I would sacrifice it for working at home from a personal, selfish point of view, you know?

41:18Jawad MirNo, but you know what it is? It's, it... Look, I think, and I have edited a lot, too, obviously not as much as you have, but it does become lonely when you're editing, right? Sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes that's a bad thing, but sometimes you need that space to be able to bounce energies and ideas off other people, because if you are just in your own world, then you're just seeing that world from your own damn lens.

41:44Jawad MirMost of the time you might get it right, but sometimes you may not. So I think there needs to be a happy medium between the two. I'm not ta… talking about you. I'm speaking in general, like, for people who are starting out or, you know, in the middle part of their career.

41:56Christopher NelsonOh, absolutely.

41:57Jawad MirYou…

41:57Christopher NelsonYou're beginning…

41:58Jawad MirYou need…

41:59Christopher NelsonY… y… you know, it's like I only have confidence in my work because over a long period of time, if I make a choice, most of the people I work for like that choice. So that's what's given me confidence, not that I, you know, I inherently have any confidence at all. I'm really fundamentally pretty insecure. But it's funny you talk about that. Like on Lost, you know, Steve worked next to me and Mark worked next to him. We almost never said, "Could you come look at this?" Almost never, and I was there for five years, you know? But so we just kind of worked on our own little worlds and I think it's been a kind of a... Eh, that's been m… more my experience than not. But, When I started on Mad Men, it was so crazy because Mad Men would go from, like, May to September, and Lost would go from September to May.

43:05Christopher NelsonSo for…

43:05Jawad MirOh, good Lord

43:05Christopher Nelson... So for three years, I was going back and forth between the shows, and usually overlapping on both sides by a couple of weeks, so I was working long hours and seven days a week to catch up. And what's the point of this story? Anyway, I, you know, you… means you're, you're cutting fresh film literally every day for three weeks, right? And the proc… that's the hardest part for me, is the blank page. I'd much rather recut something you did, let's say, than start f… 'cause I can look at whatever somebody else did and go, "Nah, I don't like that."

43:42Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

43:42Christopher Nelson"It's okay, I don't like that." But when you're starting from scratch, you know, you have to get through the process before you can kinda really critique.

43:50Jawad MirYeah. That's, that's one of the things I absolutely not a fan of. Like, even the wor… in the world of documentary editing, like, you have hundreds of hours of footage, right? And there's not necessarily any script per se. It kinda comes along as you work on it. And that logging part and that finding the m… mark-ins and mark-outs and, you know, organizing, cannot stand it, right? I can…

44:17Christopher NelsonOh, my

44:17Jawad Mir... I can, I can take all that and just... I mean, I've done it, but I haven't... I've been editing for 25 years, but I have stopped editing now. Now I just focus on writing and directing and that's it, because it just becomes so tedious, right? It just becomes so much.

44:31Christopher NelsonEspecially in documentary. You know, I have done very little of that, but I think it was during a writers' strike in maybe 2014? Yeah. Everything shut down, and somehow I got this job on this, reality show. It was called Cheerleader U. It was about cheerleader competition. And m… it's just somebody had quit, and I, somehow I think I knew the composer. I mean, it was like a real backdoor thing that I got recommended and I got the job. And the fir… you know, actually, I have... Y… you know, like, especially doing documentaries, you learn so much about the subject you're working on when you're making the film about it, right? You, it's like you become an expert on those people or that subject or whatever it is. But I had this one, literally my first show, it was, you know, cheerleader practice, and then it w… the whole show was a football game with the cheerleaders and this and that. And it's like, you know, 25-minute show or something. And I'm sitting there, like, on day one, and it's taking me 30 or 40 minutes to make a cut because I can't access, I don't know where the material is, right?

45:43Christopher NelsonSo I went, "Okay, this has gotta... I can't do this." So I went through all the footage and I made sub-clip sequences. So here's a sequence of all the scoreboards. Here's a sequence of all the passes. Here's a sequence of all the catches. Here's a seq… sequence of the touchdowns. Here's a seq… sequence of the cheerleaders doing A, B, C, or D. And then I, then the next day I went and cut the whole thing in, like, five hours 'cause I could acc… that's all the material. It's like, okay, here, I need, I need the crowd cheering. There's a, the whole, that's where all that exists.

46:18Jawad MirYeah.

46:18Christopher NelsonAnd so I had it all, and I would just put a locator, now called markers, on a cut in a sequence when I'd used it already. You know, I'm using this cut, and I put it so when I would go through it again, I'd already know, known that I'd…

46:32Jawad MirYou've used it. Yeah

46:33Christopher Nelson... Yeah. But, you know, I think when you are, especially a professional editor, media management, time management is huge part of the job.

46:45Jawad MirIt's, it is.

46:46Christopher NelsonYou know? It's the creative part. You have, you have to organize yourself in a way that you can do your job. Like, on Lost, we had five to seven hours of dailies every single day. No, you can't watch it. Half your day's gone if you watch dailies. So you learn how to, you know,.. I tend to not look at it. Maybe I'll look at a master just because I, then I understand the mechanical structure of the scene. But literally it's like, okay, I wanna start the scene. Do I wanna start wide or close? I wanna start close. Let's look at all the closer shots. And I'll just go through, if there's seven takes of everything, I'll just go through until I see something I like, and I'll go, "Okay, I'll start there." So I kind of see the whole, everything that was shot as I build the scene.

47:38Jawad MirYeah.

47:39Christopher NelsonAnd, you know, you can get let u… let off track sometimes where you go, "You, I totally barked up the wrong tree here," you know? And I gotta go back and redo a bunch of stuff. But most of the time it's kind of, anyway, it's worked for me, you know?

47:53Jawad MirYeah. No, that's awesome.

47:54Christopher NelsonIt…

47:54Jawad MirI... Sorry, go on

47:56Christopher Nelson'Cause there's just no way…

47:58Jawad MirTo watch

47:58Christopher Nelson... On a schedule, you know, to do that. So you have to, you know, I... Most of the time in episodic stuff, you know, cable, 12-show, whatever it is, network, you know, director's cut, it feels a little bit gratuitous. You know, it's like, because as soon as they're done, I mean, they may, they may bring a lot to the party, but more times than not, they want you to do things that the, that you know the showrunners are gonna, "We're just gonna go around that," you know? So you're kind of just going through the process. But one… With a lot of directors, what I find is if you missed something as you were going through it, they may help you find it. You know, they'll go, "I think somebody did something on here."

48:44Jawad MirYeah.

48:45Christopher Nelson"Below." And that really is, that's crazy helpful because there's no way I could guarantee you 100% On editor's cut that I found every single gem in the sh… in the scene, you know? When there's that much…

49:00Jawad MirYeah Yeah, no, I agree. That makes complete sense. Talking about Lost, as we sort of wrap things up, I just wanna talk about Lost a little bit more. So you worked on how many seasons? Five?

49:10Christopher NelsonE… season…

49:11Jawad MirFour

49:11Christopher Nelson... Three to the end.

49:13Jawad MirThree to the end, okay. So were you watching... Well, maybe you didn't have time, but did you know about Lost? Because it became a pretty big thing, I think, after the end of the first season or somewhere in the middle of the second season. Were you a fan of it as a viewer?

49:25Christopher NelsonI wasn't.

49:27Jawad MirYeah.

49:27Christopher NelsonI tried to watch it a couple of times, but I mean, the pilot, I think, is one of the best pilots ever made for television.

49:34Jawad MirIt is.

49:34Christopher NelsonI really, I really... It, and, a… and I have this, I have, you know, we all have certain taste preferences. I hate exposition in stuff. And what I loved about the Lost pilot is they told me who all those characters were…

49:53Jawad MirYeah

49:53Christopher Nelson... By watching them do something. We saw that Jack was, you know…

49:58Jawad MirSaving everybody

49:59Christopher Nelson... Becoming a hero because he selflessly went from here to here to here. There was this wonderful scene with, Evang… Evangeline Lilly in it. It's kind of, like, in the second half of the pilot maybe, I can't remember exactly where. But, you know, we find out that Jack's got a big, you know, gash on him, you know, and, this is after he's done all his running around to save everybody. Now he's by himself, you know, in the woo… in the bamboo forest and he's trying to figure out what to do. And she comes in, and he's like, "Can you help me? Can you help me?" You know? And she goes, "I'm not gonna sew you up." She, you know, like, same reaction we would likely have, right? "No, I don't wanna do that." And he kinda just asks her again, and he hands her the sewing kit, and she opens it up, and she just goes, "What color do you want?" And, you know…... It told me a lot about her character because yeah, she was apprehensive and didn't wanna do it, but she stepped up to the plate.

51:01Christopher NelsonYou know, just kind of like you saw Hurley being, you know, h… whatever he wa… you know, every character was defined by the action and what they were doing in that situation. Nobody told anybody, "Oh," the backstory.

51:18Jawad Mir"I'm a doctor." Yeah.

51:21Christopher NelsonYeah. Y… y… you found out he was a doctor by…

51:24Jawad MirThe action

51:25Christopher Nelson... Watching what he did. Anyway, so I hadn't watched anything, and, w… I was being, I was living in New Mexico at the time even though I knew I was gonna commute to LA to work. And I got a call on a pilot or, no, a first season of a new JJ show, and there were horror stories about long work hours on Lost, the first two seasons. Like…

51:53Christopher Nelson... You'd just go, "Oh my God," you know? And so I was up to go on this other show that JJ was doing, and then I got a call 'cause g… Carlton Cuse and I had, went w… all the way back to China Beach when he was, before, as he was just entering the business. And he called and said, "Do you wanna come onto Lost?" And I'm going, "Well, third season show, things should have settled down a little bit." 'Cause, you know, you have to think of your quality of life at the same time.

52:22Jawad MirYeah.

52:23Christopher NelsonYou know, would you sacrifice quality of life for a great job? Under the right circumstances, yes. You know? But there are times where you go, "I," you know, I've, I've worked on shows where it feels like they're trying to kill you with hours, you know, where you work 24, 36, I've worked 50 hours straight, you know? Pilots, you work 16 hours a day, and then, and then you go into the 18, 20-hour days, seven days a week for, you know, at the final hump. And it's just torturous, you know? So fortunately, we live in a world now where it's a lot more humane. You know? I haven't ha… there's a lot of shows, when you get down to the "we're sending it to the network tomorrow," you just have to put in the time, whatever it is, you know?

53:14Jawad MirYeah.

53:15Christopher NelsonBut…

53:15Jawad MirAnd I think, I think that's important though, right? You have to put in the time.

53:19Christopher NelsonYeah. As a, as a... My nature is if I'm under the gun, I can focus and work hard any time, day or night.

53:33Jawad MirThat's me.

53:34Christopher NelsonRight? But when I'm…

53:34Jawad MirYou gotta put me under the gun

53:35Christopher Nelson... But when I'm not under the gun, you know, around 7:00 at night, I'm kinda feeling impatient, and everything you ever cut takes longer than you want it to. It's never as easy as, "Okay, this is a simple two-person scene. Here's the master. I'll just do this." And you kind of, in your head, you're fi… figuring it out, and then you go, "Oh my God. In the master, he's on the wrong side of the room when, compared to the coverage. What do I do now?" And now you're there another f… X amount of hours to figure it out. But so I tend to, when I'm working, work early in the morning, 'cause in the morning I have a lot of patience, and the process takes patience to just go…

54:15Jawad MirYeah

54:15Christopher Nelson... Whatever. Not feel that rush to, "I got another scene I gotta cut. I gotta get out of this," you know? It's kinda just quiet, you know? I find myself…

54:26Jawad Mir100%

54:27Christopher Nelson... There in the morning, you know? And other people like to work till, you know, till 2:00 in the morning. God knows I've done that.

54:34Jawad MirYou mentioned under the gun, it's so true. I've... One of the things that I've developed over the years is that if I am a little bit procrastinating on something, like, you know, whether it's a client or whether it's, even my own project that I have to show to somebody, I'll just tell them, like, "This is the date, this is the time you'll have it."

54:56Jawad MirAnd then I will just sort of…... Work towards it, right? And…

55:00Christopher NelsonYeah, exactly

55:00Jawad Mir... There was a, there was a, there was an idea about a narrative film that I came up with 15 years ago about gun violence, really kind of like a great hook of the story, and for 13, 14 years I didn't write anything, right? It was just an idea. And I was working with a producer, this was my last editing job I did, and, I worked with him for two years, a director, and I told him one day, like, "You know, there was this idea," and he's like, "Okay, what is it?" I'm like, "This is the hook." He's like, "Oh, can you send me a deck?" Spent four days making a deck, and spent a month writing a script because I gave him a deadline, and now we're…... You know, we're, we're now off the charts trying to get this made. So it's, again, yeah, under the gun is the best thing to do, 100%.

55:45Christopher NelsonI am a very, not when I started editing, because I was really, I was into it, but not too long after I found I procrastinate a ton, and I find if I, if I have all the time in the world, I'm, I'm overwhelmed with indecision. "Oh, you could do it that way."

56:04Jawad MirYes.

56:05Christopher Nelson"Maybe I'll get a cup of coffee. Oh, let me see. Maybe look at… let me try that other take. Oh, I have to pee." You know? And if, so literally when I would do some... 'Cause there was a period of time where I did like three TV movies a year and a pilot, so I c… was working all the time, and TV movies were mostly crummy, you know? They were…

56:26Jawad MirI remember those times. Yeah, I remember those times

56:28Christopher Nelson... You know, but they were good to work on 'cause they were like, your process was like a mini feature. They were three-month jobs, they shot for a month, you posted for s… six weeks, and then you know, sound and mixing was the last couple of weeks or something. And so, you know, in those days too, we were much less bureaucratic than we are now. So oftentimes it was just me in an office somewhere, and I would, I would hire the sound guys that I... You'd be the editor and the associate producer, 'cause there was nobody else.

56:58Jawad MirYeah.

56:59Christopher NelsonAnd it was a fun, it was kind of a fun process even on a, on a less quality show than series at the time, 'cause series at the time was 22 a year. So, you know, you're cutting a lot of... You know, it was just, you never get to participate in the whole process.

57:15Jawad MirYeah. Yeah. No, I agree. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's a great job. It takes a lot of your time and, you know, all the stuff that you have done, I mean, for, especially for Lost, as I was telling you yesterday, you know, it's one of those series... I had somebody on, maybe about a year and a half ago, he was one of the directors of couple of episode, and I asked him like, "Did you guys..." You know how Lost sort of has this thing where you watch the last episode and it's connected to like every single episode previously, like, you know, that has this little web?

57:46Jawad MirAnd I asked him, "So how in advance did you guys plan this out?" "Oh, no, we were just doing it as we were going along." I'm like, "Are you serious?" Like, "Really?" Like, that's how, you know... It's, it's done in such a way where it feels like they wrote this whole thing out from beginning to end.

58:02Christopher NelsonYeah.

58:02Jawad MirAnd I think my favorite part, and you probably worked on that season, I can't remember, it was a season finale of season three, I think…

58:10Christopher NelsonI think

58:10Jawad Mir... Where we, where the first time we…

58:13Christopher NelsonOh

58:13Jawad Mir... We go into the future where Jack meets Kate… ... And we don't know it's the future, and then, you know, he says, "We have to go back," right? That's one of the most devastating line in the entire series. Like, here you are, you're back, and there's a twist. Like, oh, they've already made it back, now he wants to go back. I just thought that was one of the best moments in the entire series.

58:36Christopher NelsonYeah, you… there were so many, there were so many moments like that.

58:39Jawad MirI know. I know.

58:40Christopher NelsonWe always, shared the season finale, and a lot of times, w… Hank Van Eeghen, who's a really good editor, would be available. And because we were all finishing our own episodes when they started the finale…

58:54Jawad MirYeah

58:55Christopher Nelson... Hank would come in fresh and he'd just start cutting new film, and as we become free, you know, freed up from our, you know, episodes, we'd jump in, and then at the end it was just all hands on deck to the end. We would literally have... Like I can remember the series finale clearest because it was the most recent, and it was ridiculous. So, you know, they're shooting and each of us are cutting scenes on the finale, which is a two-hour.

59:26Jawad MirYeah, I remember. Yeah.

59:27Christopher NelsonAnd we're sending, we're sending them, our cut scenes to Jack Bender, who's directing it. So Jack has already had a p… and we… he's already had a pass at it before editor's cut. I mean, you know. So editor's cut is literally like the same day as last day's dailies, you know? And because there's no time, Jack is just in with Damon and Carlton, and w… we literally have two or three days…

59:54Christopher Nelson... To lock the show w… in the finale with, and have like 400 visual effects, you know? And I mean, the beauty of Media Composer is it works in a shared environment flawlessly. You know, we had three assistants, four assistants, four editors, and a VFX editor all in and out of the same material all the time, every day, and everything tracks. You know…

1:00:25Jawad MirWell, I…

1:00:25Christopher Nelson... Figuring out m… workflow management for us, you know, to make sure we don't accidentally do something stupid, which is really easy. So we'd, I think we made the VFX editor the person who was responsible for the new version of the show. So each of us, as we finished what we were working on, would put it in a bin to go to them, and then they would take care of it, so we didn't have multiple people trying to figure that part out. But, what was I trying to say? You know, the end of the shows was, you know, like if you look at the series finale… As written, half of what was in hour two was in, turned into hour one and vice versa. It w… it was a complete mix and match, because you never know what the flow feels like…

1:01:20Jawad MirUntil you put it together, yeah

1:01:22Christopher Nelson... And then you go, "Oh, I wanna spend a little more time with this storyline before we go to this one. This one feels really weak in relationships, so let's cut it down and l… put it someplace where it won't hurt too much," kinda stuff.

1:01:37Jawad MirYeah. Yeah, I agree. I mean, y… you need to have a pacing, right? It's like writing a feature script and you have 10 different writers writing 10 different scenes… ... And each of them are writing at their own pace, and one could be 10 pages long, one could be 13 pages long, and when you put them together, okay, it doesn't feel like, you know, one story is not getting the justice as much as the other stories, so you gotta either make it longer or cut it shorter, right? So, completely makes sense. Completely makes sense. And Lost, you know, is one of those series where a lot of people were sort of split between the ending. I thought it was one of the best endings of a series. I mean, there was no other possible way you could've ended it, whether…

1:02:11Christopher NelsonWe knew that was gonna be the case.

1:02:13Jawad MirYeah.

1:02:14Christopher NelsonYou know, couldn't win.

1:02:16Jawad MirRight.

1:02:16Christopher NelsonYou know?

1:02:16Jawad MirBecause it just brought everybody together, and that's the whole thing about Lost, and it's just one of those rare series where... And it took me a while to figure that out. I think maybe I figured this out six, seven years later, that it was not just about being lost on the island.

1:02:31Jawad MirIt was mainly about being lost in life, right? Like…

1:02:34Christopher NelsonYeah

1:02:34Jawad Mir... Just one word, and that defined everything about the show and the characters.

1:02:40Christopher NelsonYeah. A little note on the f… on the finale of the show.

1:02:46Jawad MirSure.

1:02:46Christopher NelsonWhen we're getting down to the nitty-gritty, today we're locking the show kind of stuff… ... So Damon and Carlton are just, you know, i… in the offices with us, and they would just go from room to room, and they would check what Hank's doing, what I'm doing, Steve and Mark, you know, and then go back and just keep checking stuff, final changes. And as it turned out, I had the last thing to do, and the... I, God, I can't remember his character's name or even his actor name. The guy who was…

1:03:17Jawad MirThe…

1:03:17Christopher Nelson... The pilot of the show.

1:03:20Jawad MirI know who you're talking about. I can't remember s… either of the names, but I know exactly who you're talking about.

1:03:23Christopher NelsonYou know, if you remember, you know, the plane takes off, and is it gonna get off, is it gonna get off, you know? And it gets off, and we're with the pilot, and we had two choices, one where he just was like and one where he th… said, "Thank God." And they were, they were... Because the, there is a religious overtone at the very end of the show, they didn't know if they wanted the thank God to, might tip it off, so it was back and forth, you know. Anyway, so I had two versions of it and, you know, back and forth. They were like, "Ah." And they finally said, "Okay, thank God." So I said, "Just stop for one second. Be p… be present." 'Cause we were working hard. I said, "I'm gonna put this in the show. This is the last cut in this series right now." Just, you know, you know, sometimes you roll past those points.

1:04:24Christopher NelsonYou…

1:04:24Jawad MirYeah

1:04:24Christopher Nelson... Only can see in hindsight, but we were like, "This is it right here. Boom. The show is done. The series is done. Last cut." And then Carlton cracked open a big bottle, expensive bottle of Patrón tequila, and we all had drinks.

1:04:42Jawad MirThat's awesome. That's great. No, that's, it's, it's... I'm glad that you sort of shared that in the very end of this conversation. It kinda locks it up. But amazing stuff. You know, you've done some incredible stuff over the years. I thought you probably started your career in the '80s, but clearly way before that, in the '70s. You've been... So 50-plus years, or 50 years, that's as big, as long of a career as, you know, someone like Martin Scorsese, Steven Spielberg, Francis Ford Coppola, and people like that. So thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. I would love to have you on again maybe

1:05:14Christopher NelsonI'd love that

1:05:15Jawad Mir... Sometime down the road.

1:05:15Christopher NelsonAnytime, yeah.

1:05:16Jawad MirIt would be really awesome. Thank you so much, sir.

1:05:19Christopher NelsonHope to have something new and fresh that I can talk about.

1:05:23Jawad MirWe can definitely do that. Let me, let me go through your IMDb in the next couple of weeks, and we'll figure something out.

1:05:28Christopher NelsonOkay, cool.

1:05:29Jawad MirAll right, sir.

1:05:30Christopher NelsonTake care.

1:05:30Jawad MirThank you so much.

1:05:30Christopher NelsonThanks so much.

1:05:31Jawad MirTake care. Bye.