'Griselda', Editor, Joaquín Elizondo

0:08Jawad MirHow have you been?

0:10Joaquín ElizondoI… I'm doing great, thank you. Had a excellent weekend, watched some football.

0:15Jawad MirGreat.

0:15Joaquín ElizondoSuper Bowl, and that was fun, so yeah, it's been great. How about yourself?

0:20Jawad MirGreat weekend, busy with family, and awesome to have you here.

0:24Joaquín ElizondoOh, thanks. Well, thanks for the invite.

0:27Jawad MirYeah, no, really looking forward to chatting with you about the series, Griselda. You know, your work on it is, very poetic, and I will talk about that in a way, later on as we converse about it. But, you know, one of the things that I'm always fascinated with, Joaquin, just being in the business myself too, I'm always fascinated about, you know, storytellers. What's our story? How do we, how do we get where we are? How did we get where we are, and what's your story? What inspired you to be an editor, and your journey has been like?

1:06Joaquín ElizondoYeah, I mean, I mean, for me it was always about telling stories. And, I mean, since a young age I was just always, you know... I think I was the w… you know, kid who always with a camera, running around and trying to express myself, creatively and I think that I found it through photography initially, through, my parent, my grandparents, my uncle, they were all, into still photography, and then that kinda caught my attention then. I originally wanted to be actually a cinematographer

1:41Joaquín Elizondo... When I was, when I graduated from college, I think 'cause of that, right? From my upbringing being just, h… you know, having access to cameras, honestly. There was always, like, Nikons, laying around the house. And, but so I... But I knew how to edit, so I was always a videographer, editor, and I started working in local news in San Diego. I went to school at the University of Michigan, studied film, and, when I got back to San Diego I just kinda started, you know, I felt I needed to just get a job, and I fell into, local news.

2:15Joaquín ElizondoBut it's not really what I wanted to do.

2:17Jawad MirOf course.

2:17Joaquín ElizondoAnd, you know, and so, but, you know, I learned, I knew how to edit. Back then it was, I think, Final Cut 7 might have been.

2:24Jawad MirYes.

2:26Joaquín ElizondoAnd so, you know, I kinda grew creatively, I say unsatisfied working in local media, and I just wanted to work on, you know, bigger national projects, and still had that kinda dream of working in film. And so I just left one day. I quit my job in San Diego and went backpacking in, Southeast Asia, and then moved to New York City just to, you know, see what I would find. And, I spent a couple years there and then moved to, LA, and when I got to LA is when I really, you know, I was there. I was like, "All right, I'm here." LA was very tough. I did not find many opportunities, but you know, at that time is when I really discovered editing. Like, I felt like I really connected with it, and you know, even though I left photography but, you know, I... Basically I'm saying this, I wasn't very good. I wasn't a very good

3:17Jawad MirYeah

3:17Joaquín Elizondo... Videographer, right? And what I really connected with was, editing. That's where I really liked the lifestyle. I liked to be, you know, in my room in front of a computer crafting a story, and manipulating sound, audio and video, and you know, that's what I really enjoyed. And that's where I really felt I was, my strengths really lied in that. And I focus on, you know, trying to be an editor and film unscripted TV in LA and Hollywood, and that proved to be very challenging. When I got there, I just didn't know how to do it, you know?

3:48Jawad MirYeah.

3:48Joaquín ElizondoI was just like, "Well, where do you start?" And so just committed a lot of mistakes and became part of a lot of post-production communities, and met people who really helped me along the way w… who I consider now my mentors and very dear friends, but that, you know, really, supported me and taught me so much. And eventually was able to, you know, break into the industry, as an assistant editor, even though I had been editing for, you know, 15 years…

4:18Jawad MirYeah

4:18Joaquín Elizondo... In unscripted, you know, television. And so I knew, I, me personally, I chose to kinda s… you know, as they say, take a step back and become an assistant because, well, first of all, I knew it was gonna probably be easier to break into the industry. And then also I knew that I had to kinda learn a bit, you know? Even though I had been working in broadcast media for 15 years, you know, I needed to learn a lot about, you know, f… scripted TV and film, how that world functioned, you know?

4:45Jawad MirRight.

4:46Joaquín ElizondoAnd I'm glad I did, 'cause I was able to really sit there, like when, you know, my editors who I assisted, they would allow me to be in the, in the room, say, when they were, having sessions with directors and producers. And I literally, I just sat there and just, you know, with a notepad and just, I mean, I just observed and that, and that was like, you know, that was like a true, like, film school, I gotta say. Having access to those, you know, to those sessions. And then eventually…

5:12Jawad MirThat's a…

5:12Joaquín Elizondo... You know, yeah, I got to, you know, got bumped up and to being an editor and been editing ever since.

5:17Jawad MirThat's awesome, man. I mean, you mentioned Final Cut 7. Do you miss the good old, good old rendering for…

5:23Joaquín ElizondoOh, God.

5:23Jawad Mir... Several hours? You hit Apple R, and then you leave the k… room and then…

5:29Joaquín ElizondoYou go have a sh…

5:29Jawad Mir... You come back after.

5:30Joaquín ElizondoWe were actually talking about that yesterday actually. A… a… at, you know, watching the football game. I don't know how rendering came up. We were talking about how, you know, 'cause my wife is an architect and, same thing, you know? When she would render her material, it's like…

5:45Jawad MirYeah

5:46Joaquín Elizondo... "See you." Come back the next day.

5:50Jawad MirYeah. I wonder, you know, one of the things that you mentioned, well, you know, you wanted to be a cinematographer and you discovered editing and, you know, I think it's a journey for a lot of people like that I've always wanted to be a director, but on the way, because you gotta do everything on your own, you know, ki…... Shot. I wouldn't consider myself a cinematographer in terms of, like, working with lights, but, like, I'm really pretty good with natural lighting and all that. And then I edited a lot. I mean, editing's something I enjoyed a lot. Like, it's just the idea of being in solitude and just putting stuff together back and forth and testing it out. I'm not talking about films. I mean, you know, even if you create, like, a three-minute piece, like a family vacation or something for a client, it's you're trying to weave a story. And I wonder with you, that transition, if it had anything to do with your trip to Southea… Southeast Asia in solitude, where you discovered how, you know, being in that moment with yourself and working on something, I think it's a completely different feeling as opposed to working with a crew.

6:58Jawad MirThat is great, too. That is awesome, too. But sometimes you need your own time with yourself.

7:06Joaquín ElizondoI mean, yeah, that's an excellent question an… and, I think it, yes, I think... Well, that was the thing. It was that experience, just going to Southeast Asia, like, quitting my job, right? And saying, "I'm gonna go now, backpacking in Southeast Asia for a month, and then I'm gonna move to New York City with no job or contacts." And I mean, yeah, that just changed my life. And, I, and you know, and the thing is, I think also just being in New York City, it's, and you'll hear this a lot from people, it's like you could, it can be a very lonely city.

7:37Jawad MirYeah.

7:37Joaquín ElizondoSo I think, yeah, you're right. I mean, like, that time, I mean, that, you know, first of all, Southeast Asia, that was just the most amazing experience and, you know, being with myself and then meeting people from literally all over the world who were doing the same thing that I was doing, that were like, "You know, I got... I was looking for something else. I was fed up with my life back home, and I'm just out here, you know, exploring the world," right? And when I initially thought that, I was like, I was, I was terrified. When I woke up that day when I left to Bangkok, I was like, "What am I doing?" Like, "What am I doing?" And, you know, when I got to Sou… you know, to Thailand and was traveling around and met people who were doing the same thing, it, I don't know, it's that feeling was like I just knew it. Well, first of all, I confirmed that I had done the right thing and I was, I was so happy. I mean…

8:25Jawad MirYeah

8:25Joaquín Elizondo... Out of that, out of that fear and being terrified came out so much happiness. And then when I got to New York, yeah, you know, just being by myself, I discovered a lot of things about myself, honestly. And I think, you know, that's what I think that bec… makes you a better storyteller. You just have so much to share and communicate with people. And that's why people always ask me, like, "What makes you a better editor?" I think for me it's just, well, first of all, traveling. You know, I love to travel.

8:49Jawad MirYeah.

8:49Joaquín ElizondoBut also just having, like, experiences. I mean, like, literally liv… living life, you know? And being out there talking with people, having conversations, especially at a time now where we're so, you know, stuck, you know, we're behind our, we're used to communicating with our devices, right? It's like literally going out and, like, talking to people. And I don't care if it's at the, you know, at the park, at the bar, or at a baseball game. I don't know, wherever. But having those commu… commu… those conversations I think, you know, just make me a better storyteller.

9:19Jawad MirIt is so true, and I think traveling really turned my life around, too. Not necessarily in the very beginning, but I went to India for three weeks for a project. And I had a project, small project in the beginning of the trip and the end of the trip, and I had, like, two and a half weeks in between. So I, you know, asked my friend. He came with me. And after I came back, I mean, it was a life-changing experience in many ways, but I, and now that I, you mentioned about the Southeast Asia, right after that, two months after that, I'm started working on my first feature documentary.

9:55Jawad Mir'Cause it ga… it gave me that strength of, you know, that fear that you have: "How the hell am I gonna start? Where is it gonna come from?"

10:01Joaquín ElizondoYeah.

10:01Jawad MirAnd all that stuff. It just, it just really opens your mind up, the traveling part. It really does.

10:08Joaquín ElizondoI agree with you know, 100%. I mean, yeah, I mean, I just, I don't know. It's like, y… you understand it. It's like y… you see, literally see so much possibilities and I think that the fear, yeah, 'cause even, like, I remember, like, w… you know, for example, like, even, like, you know, early on, like, you know, when I was younger, like, and I was, like, enjoying, I enjoyed going far away. Like, I really loved going, like, I wanna go…

10:33Jawad MirYeah

10:34Joaquín Elizondo... As far away as I can. And that was scary, right? But then, like, the more you do it, the more you're like, "All right, I want, how, let's push it," right? Let's just... And then so, yeah, so you just kind of start expanding your mind, and it certainly has helped me just kind of, you know, eliminate that fear from taking risks, I suppose. You know?

10:53Jawad Mir100%. It's, it's so true. I mean, we can, we can have a separate conversation about this…... You know, for hours. But before I jump on the next thing, I just wanna share something on the same note. Around the same time when I was, when I went to India, a year before that, I went to the western part of Canada, in the Rocky Mountains. And I mean, I live in Canada, so I had to go there for work. And I, there was this place which divides two provinces, British Columbia and Alberta. It's a small village of 240 people. It's called The Field. So you get off this highway, which is not really a highway because it's in the mountains, and there's this bridge, and there's this, s… information center. So I parked my car in front of the information center, and I go to the bridge and I look around me, and it's all mountains. And then beneath the bridge there is this water flowing with, you know, small rocks and pebbles. So I went down and I sat down there. Before I know it, two hours had c… passed.

11:55Jawad MirAnd every year after that for five years, I made a point to go there, and I kid you not, every time I came back, I had an idea. Like, something would just come out of that trip, and it's just because you're surrounded with nature and solitude, and you're completely free of everything.

12:14Joaquín ElizondoI understand what you're saying. I mean, and that's to, you know, even now, like, you know, yeah, we could keep talking about this forever, right?

12:21Jawad MirYeah.

12:21Joaquín ElizondoBut I mean, like, you know, for me, like I discovered i… you know, rec… fairly recently in the co… last couple years, like meditation, you know? I mean, that to me now, you know, for, it's, I mean, it's just such a big part of my life now, and that in itself, I mean, just so that just sitting with yourself, you know, whether it be, you know, s… in nature or like, you know, I do it here in the mornings in this room.

12:43Jawad MirSure.

12:44Joaquín ElizondoBut it's quiet, you know, and that's when I, you know, I start... Outta that, I process, I think, come out a lot of ideas, you know, being just simply with myself. I run a lot. I'm actually training for a marathon.

12:58Joaquín ElizondoAnd when I go out, you know, and my runs long runs, you know, 15, 20 miles, in early, I'm just around nature. I run around this place called, Coronado Island, and it's just, I mean, it's so inspiring and that's where I get the most ideas I think.

13:14Jawad MirYeah, for sure.

13:14Joaquín ElizondoFrom the, from that, from the moments, you know?

13:16Jawad MirYeah. And it's probably consciously and also subconsciously without you knowing that you're getting these amazing ideas on how to cut or how to tell a story. Wonderful.

13:26Joaquín ElizondoExa… no, exactly. Yeah. And no, and, you know, yeah, I mean, I love that we're, we're having this conversation because, it really, you know, again, when people ask me, it's like I don't think they expect, you know, they ask me like, "How do you become a better editor?" I think they probably rely more on like, on something more technical or I don't know. And then I start thinking about like, yeah, you know, I like to go on a run and g… you know, go to, you know, Cambodia.

13:50Jawad MirYeah.

13:50Joaquín ElizondoAnd meditate, and that's, you know, and so, but yeah, that's really it, is it.

13:55Jawad MirYeah. I think the key, the key word here is what you said, is you push yourself to do something that you don't wanna do, and you get over fear. And when you get over fear, you're a free person, and you have all this, then you're not afraid to make any decisions that you might be afraid of had you not overcome your fear.

14:13Joaquín ElizondoNo, I mean…

14:13Jawad MirRight?

14:13Joaquín Elizondo... And I get, yeah. No, I mean, that's the thing. It's like, I get so, and I get so excited to talk about this because it's, that was a thing, like for me, you know, I had talked about, for example, like when I was in San Diego, I grew up in San Diego and Tijuana.

14:25Jawad MirYeah.

14:25Joaquín ElizondoYou know, in the, in the border region. USA and Mexico.

14:27Jawad MirYep.

14:28Joaquín ElizondoAnd so I talked about, like for 10 years, I would be talking about like, "Yeah, I'm gonna go to New York City. I'm gonna do this," and I wouldn't do it. And it was literally just fear. It was fear, right? Until one day, 'cause I had an uncle that lived in New Jersey, and he was like, "All right, dude…"

14:43Joaquín Elizondo"... Like, you know, when are you gonna do it? You know, you've been talking about this for like, you know, 10 years." I'm like, and it just kinda hit me, right? And again, I was, I was so afraid, and going to Southeast Asia and then going to New York, but it was like that, when I got over that hump, like liter… you know, like you said, it's like once you do it, you're like, oh my God. Like, you know, it's like I'm s… I'm capable of so much.

15:03Jawad MirYes.

15:04Joaquín ElizondoAnd taking so many risks and like now even now, and I still do it, right? Where I'm just so, you know, conditioned to that feeling. It's like now it's like I kinda thrive off of it, honestly.

15:15Jawad MirSame here.

15:16Joaquín ElizondoYou know?

15:16Jawad MirSame here.

15:18Joaquín ElizondoWhere it's like, all right, a… if I fall, I just get back up and I, and right, it's all right. Let's, let's do this again, right? And, but yeah, I understand initially it's just getting over that, you know, initial fear. But like once you do it…

15:29Jawad MirYeah

15:29Joaquín Elizondo... You have so many possibilities.

15:31Jawad MirAnd the thriving part is so true. I mean, it's like an addiction for me.

15:36Joaquín ElizondoExactly.

15:37Jawad MirKnowing or not knowingly to fall, and I will always tell myself, okay, this is, like, you know, you know when you get rejection in the beginning in life, in anything?

15:46Joaquín ElizondoYeah.

15:46Jawad MirLike, whatever it is.

15:46Joaquín ElizondoYeah.

15:47Jawad MirYou're down. But when you get so used to it's just like, eh, let's go on. Like, it's just so easy to get over it. I'm sure there's bigger obstacles in life that, you know, losing someone, that's something you can't get over.

15:59Joaquín ElizondoRight. Right.

15:59Jawad MirRight? But it's about just conditioning your brain to that thinking, and it helps a lot. I mean, yeah, this is, this is great, man. You know, let's talk about your work on, Griselda. How did you come on board on this series, and did you know about the story beforehand?

16:17Joaquín ElizondoYeah. I mean, I knew about, well, I knew about Griselda Blanco, yes, and, you know, from, I honestly, I remember watching the Cocaine Cowboys documentary. Which I know everyone references. And so I think that's probably the first time I heard about Griselda Blanco. I mean, many years ago, and I mean, when that came out, it might have been early 2000s I think.

16:38Jawad MirYeah.

16:38Joaquín ElizondoAnd so, y… so yeah, so then eventually I, you know, when I, m… my first big break in Hollywood was Narcos: Mexico. And, I started there as an assistant editor and then, got bumped up, got promoted to editor on season three of Narcos: Mexico.

16:57Joaquín ElizondoAround probably season, I t… I mean, I wanna say probably season two, end of season two, we started hearing about this project. You know, we started hearing the name, Griselda and Sofia Vergara. And you know, s… it just kinda, you would hear around the hallway, you know, at the office. And so it's like, oh man, like that, you know, I lo… I mean, so I'm a big fan of Sofia Vergara. I've been following her career, you know, since she was like a, you know, travel show host back in the day.

17:23Jawad MirYeah.

17:24Joaquín ElizondoAnd so it's like, oh man, like that would be cool, right? To see her like in her, like this type of role, right? 'Cause she's known for comedies. And so anyways, my, so we go off to do another show called Dark Winds for AMC, and, my assistant and I, Chris Cavanagh, who's also one, a co-editor on, in Griselda, but and Narcos: Mexico. And so when we were on Dark Winds and we started to hear more and more about it, this project, and when we, I think, heard that it was happening, I made it a point to, you know, reach out to our producers and our director, Andy Baiz, who, Andy Baiz had been on Narcos since the very beginning, since Narcos the Colombia edition.

18:04Jawad MirRight.

18:05Joaquín ElizondoAnd so I made it a point to reach out to him and say, "You know what, Andy, like I'm excited about this project. I heard it's happening, and I just wanna tell you that, I wanna be, I would like to be considered for this, role." You know? I didn't know exactly how many editors they were gonna have. But I was like, you know, I wanna be considered. I'm excited about this project, and I wanna work with you, right? 'Cause with Andy, I knew him from Narcos: Mexico, but we never worked as... I was never an editor on any of his episodes. I was an assistant…

18:34Joaquín Elizondo... Editor. But, you know, I would hang out and go have lunch with him.

18:38Jawad MirSure.

18:39Joaquín ElizondoSo we had a relationship. But so, I just ended up... You know, there were other editors on Narcos: Mexico, right, who had far more experience than I had at that time. So I knew that I had to put in more effort, you know, to, you know, to kinda just, "Hey," like, you know, "I'm here," right? Because they're probably gonna go down the list of editors, right? I mean, like, especially people that Andy has already worked with as, you know, say editor/director. And so I just, you know, I had, again, I just sent out, you know, communicated to everyone, well, producers and Andy, that I wanted to be considered. And then, you know, yeah, e… eventually, you know, I get the call that, you know, Andy wanted to work with me and that's how it happened.

19:19Jawad MirWonderful. And which, episodes did you work on?

19:23Joaquín ElizondoDid the odd episodes, so one, three, and five, and then, Chris and I co-edited, episode three. And then I just wanted to give a shout-out to Kelly Stuyvesant, who did the, even episodes. Yeah, two…

19:35Jawad MirTwo and four

19:36Joaquín Elizondo... And six.

19:38Jawad MirYou know, one of the things, because the series is out, I can talk about a few things, is, I talked about in the beginning the poetic element of it, and it was so obvious if... I don't know if that makes sense. It was so obvious, but it was not until at end of episode three. Well, that's when I realized the parallels between the two women, you know, one being Griselda and the other who's playing the cop. I forget the character's name. Like, how their lives are kinda going this way, and then one falls, and the other goes up, and then she falls, and that go... It was done so beautifully, and as soon as the episode three ended, I'm like, "Holy crap, that is so poetic." Like, that is just... And it was not in your face. It was just very subtly building up, and it came out beautifully. That's just a comment I just wanted to make.

20:32Joaquín ElizondoAwesome.

20:33Jawad MirYeah.

20:34Joaquín ElizondoNo, thank you. Thank you.

20:36Jawad MirBut, you know, working with, something like this which is so, character-driven, I mean, without Sofia, I don't think this series would work. I mean, she's phenomenal in it. And, dealing with all the narratives and putting them together, yourself and your team, your co-editor, how... Were there, were there any challenges that you faced on the episodes that you worked on where... You know, it's, it happens on every series or film where there's a scene that you really want to have in there because it's good for the film, but because the pacing gets kicked off, you have to take it out. Was there anything like that kind of made you feel, "Eh, you know, I wish we could have included that"?

21:20Joaquín ElizondoOh, yeah. I mean, well, I mean, episode one. I mean, the first episode, I mean, that was, I mean, we worked on that, you know, extensively, and yes, unfortunately had to lose, a lot of scenes, you know, in the process, you know, to get the, you know, the flow right? I mean, like, there's so many things. It's about finding that balance, right? I mean, it's, it's…

21:44Jawad MirYeah

21:44Joaquín Elizondo... It's, it's, it's a, it's, it's a challenge, right? And it's really is, like, you know, a lot of people compare editing to, like, cooking. It really is. And, but, you know, yeah, episode one, I mean, you know, th… we... There's a lot of, a lot of stuff that was kinda left out was a lot of her, the backstory of Griselda.

22:03Jawad MirYeah.

22:03Joaquín ElizondoRight? And, we kept some in there. Other stuff just had to go. I mean, like, there was one... Yeah, there was one scene where, I g… I, you know, I did fight for, and, I, and it just, you know, we threw it in there, took it out. It, tr… tried it back in and it just, you know, doesn't work. And again, it's like, you know, kinda going back to, like, you know, what we're talking about, say, you know, fear of maybe making mistakes or rejection. You know, it's like I tell people about editing. It's like you have to be comfortable with that because if you're gonna... Y… and you have to pitch something, right? You have to say, if you believe in something, you gotta say, you can fight for it, right?

22:38Jawad MirSure.

22:38Joaquín ElizondoAnd it's, and if people are not gonna, it doesn't serve the story, you know, they're gonna take it out. Like, don't be offended.

22:45Jawad MirYeah.

22:45Joaquín ElizondoIt just doesn't work, right? But, yeah, I mean, episode one, I mean, like, we restructured that thing many ti… I mean, we tried, and that was the cool thing because about, on this, series that it was more like a feature film. It had one director, six episodes, and w… again, we worked on this for a year, and w… we spent a lot of time on one just really trying, I mean, literally trying everything and reordering stuff and, you know, eventually just settled on what we felt was the, you know, the right version of it, right? But yeah, like, in that process, you let go of things that, I mean, it's like, it's a conversation, right, with many people, with the team.

23:23Jawad MirYeah.

23:23Joaquín ElizondoAnd saying, you know, what, you know... And having also y… people w… viewing it, right, giving their opinion w… from our cinematographer, the post PA, you know, and everyone, you know, "What do you think? What are you feeling?" Right? And also Andy and I watching the cuts and y… you know, look o… over at each other, and that's the cool thing about being at the office versus being, like, a remote, you know, kinda setup is that you can look over…

23:48Jawad MirOf course

23:48Joaquín Elizondo... And see how people literally are r… like, body language, and that's what we would do. We'd just kinda look over, and we knew when we were not w… when the rhythm was off or whatever, it's, "All right, you know, hit the space bar. Let's stop, and let's, let's, let's, let's figure this out," right? But yeah, I mean, like, it was, you know, again, episode one, we, again, it was just, you know, we... So many things that we tried, and, yeah, and unfortunately, you know, some stuff had to go, but it's only to serve the story.

24:15Jawad MirYeah. Was there any scene involving her husband's backstory of how he is, was the way he was, like, you know…... Giving his wife away. Like, was there any part where in the script or in the w… stuff that was shot his backstory of showing who he is and why he became the way he is?

24:35Joaquín ElizondoThere was a m… there was a bit of ex… more of exploration of that, yes, for sure.

24:40Jawad MirYeah

24:40Joaquín Elizondo... In the, in the script and also what was... I mean, we had what was shot, yeah. In the end it w… it was, you know, this one, this… sh… we just really wanted to stick, be more with Griselda. That was the thing, you know? We wanted to be with her, and that was also the conversation say, you know, c… 'cause obviously, you know, look, it's the same team as Narcos: Mexico, right? Or Narcos.

25:03Joaquín ElizondoAnd initially, I mean, one of the... And I don't think even it had to be a conversation. We just kinda knew that this was... We didn't wanna make another Narcos, you know? Obviously this one, you know, for example, the show, you know, doesn't have, like, that iconic, you know, main title and song. You see just, you know, Griselda and over, you know, Sofia's face and we didn't have any, you know, archival footage and voiceover. And also, the thing about Narcos: Mexico, I'll say because I worked on that, you know, you have, you're following literally, you know, these cartel bosses around Mexico. You have s… they're all o… there's so many. It's a u… like, this universe, right? And, like, now the difference between that and Griselda is that this is just her. This is her story, right? And so I think es… I guess going back to episode one, it was kinda narrowing that down and having more of that focus, like, on her, being with her.

25:53Jawad MirYeah. And I'm glad you mentioned the opening, if you wanna call them titles or credits. Is that every episode ended with her, if my memory serves me right, and more or less began with her, like, following, like, an epilogue. And it was just like, you know, even if you were, your mind is swayed away for two or three minutes from her, she comes right back in, and then the way she carries herself and her arc, her constant arc, kinda going back to what you and I were talking about failure. Like, you know, i… the entire series, it's her, like, falling down one after another, struggling. And that's something that I find very interesting in a story, any story where the character is struggling. I mean, that's pretty much most stories are. I always wonder if the editor and the director, their own struggles in life translate through that very naturally without them knowing that their, you know, the character has to go through all this because that's what they go through.

26:55Joaquín ElizondoI know. Absolutely. I mean, like, I think so. I mean, it's, you know... I mean, yeah, that's what... I mean, look, I mean, I mean, I can't speak so much for Andy, right? But I'm saying, like…

27:04Jawad MirYeah

27:04Joaquín Elizondo... For me, yeah. I mean, it was yeah. I mean, it was... I, there were so many st… it was such a... I mean, it was, it was tough. It was tough, and it was, like, literally, you know, trying something, failing, and then, like, you know, getting back up and finding a way to keep going. That was the thing also, especially in LA. Like, I wanted to quit so many times where I was like, "I can't, I don't know if I'll ever be able to work in this town." It was, it was tough. And but then you just push through, you push through, you push through. So yeah, that definitely translates. I mean, obviously this is a whole different, you know, story.

27:39Jawad MirYeah. That's fine.

27:40Joaquín ElizondoBut…

27:40Jawad MirThat's fine

27:41Joaquín Elizondo... But I mean, like, but, you know, yeah, you can't, y… you know, you kinda relate in that regard, I gotta say.

27:47Jawad MirYeah.

27:48Joaquín ElizondoYou know?

27:49Jawad Mir100%. 100%. And wa… was this series, this was shot after COVID, right? Or during COVID? Do you remember?

27:56Joaquín ElizondoThis was after COVID.

27:58Jawad MirOkay.

27:58Joaquín ElizondoYeah. We started, we started in January 2022.

28:03Jawad MirAnd was it... Were you getting dailies as the production was going on, or were you just kinda handed everything at the end to kind of figure it out? Or how was the workflow for that?

28:18Joaquín ElizondoYeah. We got, we started, you know, we probably got a prep week, a week of prep, to kinda, you know, talk about all the remote setups and whatnot, you know? And then so yeah, I mean, they started, you know, from the first day of production, you know, we were, we're always one day behind. So, you know…

28:37Joaquín Elizondo... If they shoot on a Monday, we'll get that footage on Tuesday, right? And so we were, the way it was set up is that the first six months, we were, all the editors and the, and assistants were, remote. So we were all at home.

28:56Joaquín ElizondoAnd so, you know, the dailies were all uploaded to us, you know, from the lab. They prep the dailies, you know, sync it up, video and audio. And then we would, you know, just like if you were at the office, open up the Avid and, you know, our assistants would see the footage and organize it. And then the next six, the la… the second half, six, the last six months, we were doing a hybrid setup where we would go, into the office, you know, a couple times a week and work with Andy and, you know, Eric Newman, and s… you know, sometimes Nex… Netflix would pop in. And, which I loved. Again, I love, I just, I love that setup in general, just hybrid, being some days at home and then, like, some days at the office and being able to collaborate in person. But yeah, they shot, I mean, production shot, I think it was over, I mean, around 100 days, little bit over 100 days of shooting. And we had a production, when it, took a hiatus there, took a break, towards the end for about six weeks. And so but editorial kept going. We still kept cutting.

29:57Joaquín ElizondoSo again, that was great because we were just at that point not getting any dail… dailies and just focusing on our, on our cuts. And then also, and Andy, the thing is, so Andy, he wanted to see scenes, like, every day pretty much. So as we're getting dailies, getting footage, I'm having to send out, you know, we're having to send out scenes to Andy for him to look at. And so it's like, and then we get notes about those scenes from Andy. So we're doing this kinda, like, editor's cut/director's cut. As he's shooting, and I don't know how he does it. Like, being able to be on set and then, like, watch these scenes and then give us notes, and then, like... I mean, he's... Andy has so much energy, Andy has so much energy. But, i… and so yeah, it was just kinda like... Th… and his idea was, like, "You know what? Let's get ahead. Let's get as much ahead as possible. Obviously, we're gonna... I'm gonna have my time," right? Andy's saying, "I'm gonna have my time to sit with you, but I just wanna get ahead as much as possible and gain a lot of time, so we're, so we're just crunching out."

30:54Jawad MirRight.

30:54Joaquín ElizondoYou know?

30:55Jawad MirYeah, no, that makes, that makes great sense. And I al… I wonder with series, if it's like this. I spoke to, Richard Francis, who's edited films like, The Rock, Seven, Shawshank Redemption, Green Mile, you know, like, the classics. And he would always tell me, like, every time I speak to him, that pretty much everything that he worked on in the '90s was always working with Frank Darabont or Michael Bay or David Fincher, on the set. So he, him and his teams would be physically on the set, so they would get the footage…

31:32Jawad Mir... You know, the dailies, and work on it. Is that any way happening right now in the world of series, or is that not something that is even conceived?

31:42Joaquín ElizondoIn series, I haven't, I've only recently in the last couple years have heard about it, you know, from a couple handful of people in series. Yeah, I see it more in the film world.

31:53Jawad MirYeah.

31:53Joaquín ElizondoOf like, literally being kinda like on set.

31:55Jawad MirOn location.

31:56Joaquín ElizondoAlthough, you know, for example, like, well, that's the thing. It's like, I mean, well, you know, the thing is, like, Griselda, for example, it was shot in LA. So we were, you know, we were in town, you know?

32:05Jawad MirTrue. True.

32:06Joaquín ElizondoBut not, you know, not n… but not on set, obviously. You know, but, you know, i… it's not like Andy could come... I mean, they just, I mean, they worked so hard. I mean, I... Shout out to the cast and crew. I mean, like I say, they're like the true warriors, you know? It's like, you know... But yeah, he couldn't, you know, he couldn't come into the cutting room, you know, to watch scenes. Like, I mean, just he had, didn't have any time. And so, we would just send it to him, you know, via, pics. Sometimes he would be like, you know, "Just send me s… I wanna see it right now. Like, you know, have some, have a break, you know, between even setups. Just send me something. Like, you know, s… send it on WhatsApp." You know? And it's, "All right."

32:42Jawad MirYeah.

32:42Joaquín ElizondoYou know, "Make sure you delete it right as soon as you watch it, Andy." And so yeah, we just send him, like, you know, just a s… you know, screengrab or, you know, to record my timeline, or my, you know... Check this out. And then, but that's the cool thing, is that, you know, literally sometimes he would be like, you know, you know, shooting a scene, and it's like, "Hey, like, what do you have? Just show me. Maybe I might need to get this insert." And then, you know, "Okay, hold on." And then I would just send it to him. He's like, "Okay, let me just grab this real, this shot real quick." You know, so it g… helps a lot.

33:12Jawad MirYeah. Yeah. No, that's true, because i… just being physically on the set, one of the th… key things you said, like the body language of showing it to people and how they react, like you can tell with an audience, like even in a movie theater, who is, who is enjoying it. Like, you know, as soon as you see a phone light turning on or somebody passing popcorn to someone else, like, that means they're distracted and it's not holding them, holding it for them, right?

33:35Joaquín ElizondoYeah. Oh, absolutely. And that's the thing.

33:37Jawad MirIt's like…

33:38Joaquín ElizondoIt's like we would, we would, you know, initially when, like during our, you know, early on in the process, when we had our kinda like our first cuts, we watched all episodes, like, you know, one through six. It was me, Kelly, the other editor, Andy, and Eric Newman.

33:56Jawad MirYeah.

33:56Joaquín ElizondoAnd we would sit there all together, watch every episode, and have a, like, discussion about it. And then, like I said, you know, like the cinematographer would pop in, and he's like, "Eh," and he's like, "Sit. Sit." Like, "Sit down. You're watching this episode." And then, and at that point, obviously I had seen it, like, s… so many times. I'm, I'm actually watching the people watching the show. Like, I'm work... You know, at that point it's like I know the episode, right? It's like, so I'm watching them and just seeing h… like you said, just how they react.

34:21Jawad MirYeah.

34:21Joaquín ElizondoAnd you start seeing things and then everyone has a different opinion. And then sometimes people have the... When you know everyone's saying the same thing, it's like, "All right, we gotta fix this," you know?

34:28Jawad MirYeah.

34:28Joaquín ElizondoOr do something about it, but it's a process for sure.

34:32Jawad MirIt is. And it's, it's interesting you mention the, we're talking about looking at the audience. I remember, you know, when you're, when you're starting out in the world of film, not necessarily production, at least this is happened for me. I remember the very first film that I did, I was looking at people in the movie theater for something else. It was, you know, what's the word I'm looking for? Filling up my ego. Like, "Do they like this?" You know, like, the, I wasn't looking for the other thing, like are they getting distracted. But after that film, I realized how important it is to look for the other.

35:09Joaquín ElizondoRight.

35:09Jawad MirBecause when you look for the other, then the automatic, you know, if you wanna f… you know, serve your ego, will automatically come after fixing it or tweaking it. But yeah, no, that's, that comes in really handy, getting audience's reaction if they're getting distracted or not. Especially nowadays when everybody's attention span is less than a minute. I mean, it's insane.

35:28Joaquín ElizondoWell, that's the thing. Exactly.

35:31Jawad MirIt's insane.

35:33Joaquín ElizondoYeah, I mean, yeah. No, ex… exactly. And, you know, even, you know, and that was kinda also a cool thing, like being at home, was that, you know, my wife would, you know, and she would do like some ADR lines where we needed, "Hey, can you do this line, you know, real quick?" but you know, like, yeah, you know, "Check this out. Like, what do you think?" You know? "What do you think?" And, you know, and in the process you're just kinda going there, "All right."

35:54Jawad MirYeah.

35:54Joaquín Elizondo"Cool."

35:56Jawad MirThat's awesome, man. And what's, what's lining up next for you that you're able to talk about?

36:01Joaquín ElizondoWell, you know, right now just kinda exploring, you know,.. Again, for me it's like, it's just about trying to get, working with good people. You know? And something that's, that's gonna challenge me. I'd love to do maybe something like a, like a comedy.

36:17Joaquín ElizondoOr horror. That'd be kinda cool, you know? But you know, trying to ex… you know, explore other things. I mean, I've, I've, I've done the… You know, cartel, you know, drug wars, you know, I've done that. So, you know, I think I would like to s… find something different this time.

36:36Jawad MirYeah.

36:36Joaquín ElizondoAnd, you know, at the moment it's, you know, obviously as we know, y… you know, it's been a slow time here in, you know, in Hollywood and in the industry in general. And so, just hope that things pick back up, you know, soon and we can get s… you know, back to working again. It was a rough year. And so, just, you know... But I'm excited. I'm excited what's, what's ahead, you know? It's like, it's like I think it's, it… it… it's a, it's a time of transition, I suppose, you know? And that's also, like, in a way exciting because, you know, I think, you know, a lot of good opportunities can come out of that, you know?

37:14Jawad MirYeah. 100%.

37:15Joaquín ElizondoBut we'll, we'll, we'll see. We'll see.

37:17Jawad MirDo you ever consider yourself directing or being a cinematographer on a project, whether it's your own or somebody else's?

37:23Joaquín ElizondoYou know, cinema… it's, I mean, the cinematography thing, I… I'm good just doing my YouTube videos, you know, for my, for my…... Mentorship platform. I think, I think I'll leave it at that, you know?

37:33Jawad MirOkay.

37:34Joaquín ElizondoBut I still enjoy it, you know? Even, like, you know, I just bought, recently I bought a new camera. I still, I bought lenses. Like, I still, I love it. I love cinematography…

37:42Jawad MirYeah

37:42Joaquín Elizondo... And photography, you know? Directing, I, you know what? I don't know. I mean, I'd love to do something probably, yeah, you know, my own project. You know, yeah, I see that probably in the cards maybe someday, directing. I would... And writing, you know, I, yeah, I just, I... 'Cause to me, like, editing is writing, honestly.

38:02Jawad MirI… it is. It is.

38:03Joaquín ElizondoYou know? It is. So it's like, you know, I would like to do that, also explore that, as well, to do some more writing. But, yeah, I mean

38:13Jawad MirIt's the time factor, right? Like, you need a lot of time, right?

38:17Joaquín ElizondoWell, I mean…

38:17Jawad MirThat…

38:17Joaquín Elizondo... You know, and that's the thing, it's like, you know, I run my own, you know, mentorship platform. I attend my own podcast and that, you know, that is, like, I mean, yeah, it's just trying to... Literally now it literally is just finding the time to do all this stuff. And, you know, one… once I'm on a show, you know, a series, I mean, I tell people, "You're, you're not gonna see me for the next, you know, six to nine months, maybe even a year," 'cause I just disappear, you know?

38:40Jawad MirYeah.

38:40Joaquín ElizondoIt's like I'm just hungry to, you know, like, you know, just working away. It's so time-consuming.

38:46Jawad MirWhat's your podcast about?

38:48Joaquín ElizondoSo, Hollywood Editing Mentor, it's, it's both a mentorship platform that I have a… and then a podcast that came out of it. But, you can find it at hollywoodeditingmentor.com.

39:00Jawad MirOkay.

39:00Joaquín ElizondoAnd basically I created this mentorship platform back during the pandemic. During the pandemic I was, I was kinda, you know, sitting around and, as a lot of us were, and I, you know, I was like, "Well, you know, I wanna do something, you know, creative and I don't wanna just sit around here and, like, just watching TV. Like, I wanna learn something or what can I do?" And, you know, I had a lot of mentors, obviously, that helped me, you know, break into this industry. And also just in, look, I've been working as an editor for now, you know, 20-plus years.

39:31Jawad MirYeah.

39:31Joaquín ElizondoAnd I've always had a lot of help from people. And being part of communities, have allow… has allowed me, especially in LA, to, like, just kinda keep going, right, when times got tough. And so I created this mentorship platform to help people really, I mean, whether it be they're aspiring or seasoned editors or post-production professionals, to basically help them achieve their goals, right? And also, again, part of this is creating a community where people can find that, you know, support from like-minded people. And so then the podcast came really from, you know, I wanted to share stories from other people, how they've accomplished, say, their dreams, right, or how they overcome obstacles. So it's…

40:14Joaquín ElizondoIt's, it's, you know, we do talk about certain projects, obviously, you know, but it's a lot more about mentorship and bringing, people bringing us into their kinda world and sharing us, you know, how they've been able to accomplish, again, their dreams or, you know, overcome certain challenges that they discovered along the way. And so, you know, it's been, it's been fun. I love it, you know? It's, I love sharing those stories. And so, you know, I still do it. That's the thing. But now it's like I can't do that and do, like, the day job, let's say…

40:45Jawad MirYeah

40:45Joaquín Elizondo... Together. It's just, it's just too much work. But, you know, a wealth of information there. I have a YouTube channel and so many free resources. And then also, you know, people wanna kinda dive deeper into other topics, you know, I offer a kind of fee-based, you know, services, you know? But it's, it's, it's all there at hollywoodeditingmentor.com.

41:04Jawad MirThat's awesome, man. No, it's, it's so true. Like, you know, making a podcast takes so much of your time, even if you know what the hell you're doing.

41:14Joaquín ElizondoOh, yeah.

41:14Jawad MirYou know, it, I mean, it's, I remember when I started this during COVID it would take me, like, you know, aside from the interview, like, which is, like, normally an hour conversation, it would take me two to three hours to put everything together. Then it just over time took me to figure out a way to have templates ready and just plug it in and no cutting, nothing. And now it's, like, down to 40 minutes, and hopefully will be down to 25 minutes. Because it, we can't do it yourself, it's just you have other stuff to do. Like, this is not your bread and butter, right? I mean, I, you're just doing it for maybe for fun of it or for talking about films and…

41:49Joaquín ElizondoYeah. No, you get it. You totally get it. And, yeah, I used to be, like, you know, cutting every pause out, every breath. I mean, like…

41:57Jawad MirOh, no

41:57Joaquín Elizondo... Because, you know, you care about it so much. But then it's like, I just, I can't. It's just too much time, you know?

42:05Jawad MirYeah. No, 100%, man. Any travel plans for you?

42:09Joaquín ElizondoWe've, we've, my wife recently brought up Croatia, and that's been on my list as well for many years. We got to go last year to Japan. That was beautiful. I loved it out there. So I think, yeah, this year Cr… I think we're, we're aiming for Croatia. We, that's always what I wanted to do. So hopefully we'll get to do it.

42:30Jawad MirHave you ever thought about Bolivia?

42:33Joaquín ElizondoI have. I have thought about it. I have, yeah.

42:36Jawad MirThere is this place…

42:37Joaquín ElizondoI've never been

42:38Jawad Mir... There's this place I see on Instagram, it's called Salar de Uyuni, where you basically, it's like you're, you can walk or bike on water. Obviously it's, you know, like at the level of the ground, but it's so crisp that you see the reflection of yourself and the bike and the sky in still water. You can't, even if you turn the image upside down…

43:02Joaquín ElizondoYeah

43:02Jawad Mir... It would look like the other way. And it, I mean, if you're going to Croatia, you know, down the road, whenever you have a chance to go to Bolivia, just check that out. I haven't been there. I've always wanted to go.

43:13Joaquín ElizondoOh.

43:13Jawad MirGo there. It's beautiful.

43:15Joaquín ElizondoYeah, I would, I will certainly add it to the list. I mean, that sounds great. And yeah, no, Bolivia, honestly, I always, I, it, I've always wanted to go and so... But a… again, also finding the time. It's like so many places, man, I wanna visit.

43:28Jawad MirYeah.

43:28Joaquín ElizondoI don't have the money.

43:29Jawad MirBut Bolivia's down south. Bol…

43:30Joaquín ElizondoYeah, exactly. Yeah

43:30Jawad Mir... Bolivia's down south, so it's not that far, right? So.

43:33Joaquín ElizondoYeah.

43:34Jawad MirBut yeah, no, man, this has been great. I had a great time talking to you. Obviously our mindset is somewhat similar in terms of interest and traveling and work-wise, and, would love to chat with you more in future if there's anything that you'd be interested in talking about, you know, another project of yours that I can take a look and see what happens.

43:56Joaquín ElizondoOh, absolutely. Well, no, first of all, thanks for having me here on your shows. Yeah, great conversation. I, obviously we could have probably kept going for hours and hours, you know, talking about certain subjects. So, this has been lovely. Thank you.

44:07Jawad MirNo problem, man. My pleasure. Thank you so much, and, looking forward to seeing more of your work. Take care, man. All right. Absolutely. Please do. Take care. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for watching and listening. Don't forget to subscribe, like, share, and comment, and do come back for another episode. Until then, have a great day.