'Raiders of the Lost Ark, The Adaptation', Director, Eric Zala

0:06Jawad MirAnd you've been, residing there for a while now? Or is that something you just went back to your hometown, or?

0:11Eric ZalaI've, I've lived all over. I last loo… moved, lived in Las Vegas working for a video game company. However, when the documentary came out, I, quit the job, sold the house, and actually my family and I went on a 65-city tour around the country, and wound up back in our, hometown about 2016. So it's been about six years, since I've been back.

0:38Jawad MirThat's good. And that tour was for the film, or just kinda like a vacation?

0:42Eric ZalaNo, it was, to support the theatrical release of the documentary, that came out that year. We would, travel and do a double feature. The documentary and then the fan film that it was about.

0:55Jawad MirYeah. Well, that's fantastic. That's pretty cool.

0:58Eric ZalaThanks.

0:59Jawad MirAnd what are you up to nowadays?

1:02Eric ZalaCurrently I am, I actually just got back from Jackson doing a Raiders screening. I keep expecting this Raiders book to close, but it never quite does.

1:15Jawad MirRight.

1:15Eric ZalaI've been spending, work at the local library, most recently. Spending time with my kids before they disappear to college. So…

1:26Jawad MirThat's…

1:26Eric ZalaWhile I can

1:27Jawad Mir... That's good. That's super cool. That's super cool.

1:29Eric ZalaThanks.

1:29Jawad MirI mean, that's probably the most important thing. You know, at certain time in l… life you realize that before that happens you just gotta, you know, step on it and go with it. So that's fantastic that you're doing that.

1:41Eric ZalaThanks.

1:43Jawad MirLet me know how your journey started, Eric, in terms of making Raiders.

1:52Eric ZalaIt all started back in 1981. Some, Indiana Jones, or Raiders Lost Ark had ca… come out that summer. I was in elementary school… ... Riding on a, it was an hour-long bus ride. And I would do my homework, write, draw comic books. One day I see this kid with this Raiders of Lost Ark comic book, and I asked to borrow it. That person was C… Chris, who later got it in his head to, with this wacky idea of doing a shot for shot remake of Raiders of Lost Ark, of course starring himself. Anyway, Chris remembered me and also saw me later in a class film and realized, "Hey, this is kind of a movie guy." and of course film is, as we experienced fully later, very collaborative medium. So, he called me up, looked me up in the Yellow Pages actually. My dad's, law office last name, that I have is unusual, and said, "Hey, I'm doing this shot for shot remake of Raiders of the Lost Ark. Do you wanna help?" And I had visions of all the sets being built, I just kinda wander on and help. Little did I know the only thing that Chris had done at that point was buy the script from the mall bookstore and cast himself as Indiana Jones, as any good producer will do.

3:13Eric ZalaSo we got together for our first, production meeting, really play date. We were 11 and 12 back then respectively.

3:21Jawad MirRight

3:22Eric Zala... And I showed him around my house, including, this big rambling basement that I imagined would make a great improvised sound stage for our sets. And there in the basement we decided, "All right, let's do it." We committed to the project remake, a $22 million blockbuster on our allowance. Kids don't know what they can't do. But anyway, that's how it all got started.

3:50Jawad MirThat's pretty neat. And when you started that, did you guys know that it was gonna go on for that long? Like, how many years was the production?

4:00Eric ZalaNo clue that it would take, consume our entire childhood from age 12 to 19. When, that, fateful afternoon in the basement we naively thought we would finish it that summer. Ha. It's the great thing about kids, you know? No, you know, there is no impossible, and that's probably a good thing. Had we known…

4:22Jawad MirYeah

4:22Eric Zala... I think we would've been scared to death.

4:26Jawad MirTrue. But was it because of any kind, was it financial reasons that over, as you started making it you started realizing, "Okay, no, we need to do this better and better" and it just kind of, you know, built on that?

4:38Eric ZalaWell, yeah, we, at first as you might expect, as kids with no prior experience doing this, we kinda groped around in the dark. I mean, how do you remake it? I took the screenplay and typed it up on my dad's Apple IIe so we'd have multiple copies of the script for cast. Started scouting locations. I, Raiders was not out on video yet.

5:02Eric ZalaSo, when it was re-released in theaters in '82, I went to see it and snuck in a tape recorder to capture the sound effects. Used it as kind of a memory jog. And I spent an entire summer, with everything Raiders that my allowance could buy splayed out on the, coffee table in front of me, and spent a whole summer drawing, 602 storyboards from memory. So…

5:25Jawad MirWow

5:26Eric Zala... That's, those were our first steps in doing this. And of course, you know, casting. We, the end of the summer came and we hadn't, we were still, you know, very much, involved in pre-production. So that didn't, work. It wasn't until year two that we actually shot, and the results were so terrible we kept almost nothing of that first year. It was only by year three that we actually started having usable footage.

5:59Jawad MirRight.

5:59Eric ZalaAnd even in years three, four, and five, and six… four years you see a span of us growing up, and then year seven we edited all the previous years' worth of footage. But yeah, there is a lot to do. And also we had standards. We, you know, as far as we knew at the time, we were the only ones doing this in the world, but, it turns out that's not the case. We just were different in that we took it a little further, and I think that loving attention to detail, that was a factor in why it took so long. That and the fact that it's a big, sprawling, elaborate movie.

6:41Jawad MirYeah, and that's a testament to, the work that you guys created, right? Because it takes a lot of... Because when you're doing something, whatever that is in life, and there's always somebody else that is doing something similar. And instead of s… rushing through, and especially at that age, you know, mine first. Even adults do that, right? But mine first. You guys kind of kept weighted and with quality over, you know, quantity or kind of syndrome. So that was pretty cool that you guy… And it shows in, it shows in the, in the work. And, you know, and looking back at it, like, you know, even now, like, people in our generation, we tend to appreciate the VHS quality because we've been there, we've seen that and all that stuff, you know, the blurriness and…

7:26Eric ZalaYeah

7:26Jawad Mir... But I don't know how this generation works. I have no clue what their thoughts are. But the idea of, you know, making it and then figuring out how to put it out there, at that time, what was it that made you realize that we need to put this out there, or someone saw it? Like, how did it... Because we were not living in social media at the time, right? There was no YouTube, nothing. So how did it get its, gets its, attention?

7:56Eric ZalaQuite accidentally discovered, as it turns out. Yeah, you're right. We actually didn't put it out. We actually didn't enter it into a single film festival after seven years, which might be strange looking back on it, but we were so focused on just finishing the damn thing. That was the loftiest goal we could conceive. And so after seven years, as you might expect, there was such a sense of relief. It was closure for us. We had a hometown premiere, had about 200 friends and family show up. Had the first, and for all we knew, only s… public screening.

8:37Eric ZalaAnd, then, all right, put it on our shelf and went off to college and, work and life. And, sure I would bust it out, and show friends occasionally, but we didn't really know what we had. It wasn't,.. It was because of a college roommate I had, or a roommate I had after college actually, who made a copy of my film after I showed it to him, and he made a copy, passed it on to a friend, who made a copy for a buddy. Six degrees of separation later, copy falls in the hands of Eli Roth, who is a horror movie director.

9:15Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

9:16Eric ZalaEli, his movie Cabin Fever is the new hot thing, so he's taking meetings around Hollywood, including DreamWorks, Spielberg's company, and brings this battered VHS bootleg of our film, probably 13th generation, to the, his own production meeting, and gives it to him and says, "Hey, you really ought to check this out." Spielberg watches it that weekend, calls Eli back and says, "This is great. What are these guys' addresses? I wanna write them a letter of appreciation." And Eli has no idea. He has never met us, but, he tracks down Jason, one of us, through the internet, and, who passes on our contact info. And that's how, at an otherwise ordinary day at the office, I get this email out of the blue. "Hi Eric, you don't know me. My name's Eli Roth. I'm a filmmaker, and this might sound strange, but Spielberg has seen your R… Little Raiders movie and loves it, and wants to write you a letter of appreciation. What's your address?"

10:18Eric ZalaAnd so that was how it was discovered. We gave him our address. Each received a letter back in the mail, from the man himself, and, it was, an incredible thing, and I thought, "This is amazing. How could it get better than this?" But it actually did. Eli was busy that year, brought it to, Button-A-Thon, with, which is this 24-hour film festival…

10:43Jawad MirYeah

10:43Eric Zala... In Austin, Texas. And, it winds up getting shown in part, and I'm told st… stole the show, and that's... So they tracked us down to have a proper world premiere. And so 14 years later after we finished in 1989, in, 2003, it is discovered and Vanity Fair does a 10,000 page article on it. Then our, then there was a book, and then even a…

11:16Jawad MirYeah

11:16Eric Zala... Documentary. So, all quite unexpected.

11:22Jawad MirWhat a great story, right? And it kinda goes to show, especially what I love about the story, is that 14-year gap where…

11:28Eric ZalaYeah

11:28Jawad Mir... You know, you thought you were done and finished with it. And it goes to show that if you've done something right and if, you know, the, everything is sort of working out the way it should, it will land into the right place. That's, that's pretty cool. I know about the documentary, I know about the book. I didn't know about the story that you just told, so, which is, which is really cool, and it should be a message to people who want to pursue in this. And, you know, having said that, you guys did this in the ni… finished in 1989, and y… you guys didn't pursue filmmaking at all after that, up until like the... You know what I mean? Like it was a…

12:06Eric ZalaOh

12:06Jawad Mir... Do something on the side thing or?

12:07Eric ZalaActually I did. I, when I went off to college, it was, I left Mississippi, moved to, from Mississippi to New York City at age 18 to go to NYU Film School. And actually most people don't know this, it's actually not covered in the documentary, but I actually did a 20-minute original piece that actually, Chris plays a supporting role, in. More of a villain this time than a hero. But yeah, I pursued film and then, moved to Los Angeles and took a job as a video game tester, and without meaning to, got promoted.

12:48Eric Zala... And around that time Chris and I were, growing apart, and, life took us in different directions, safe to say. So I sort of moved from film to video games and I'm good at that, although film's my real passion.

13:07Jawad MirHave you ever thought about going back at it?

13:10Eric ZalaIt's possible. There is actually, some new interest, in, LA on turning our Raiders story into a narrative version. And, I would not want to, possibly, a movie or a TV series, and so the producer who is, looking to have that, said, "Hey, we'd love for you to direct an episode." And I said, "That'd be surreal and wonderful." so the future may hold that. We'll see.

13:49Jawad MirThat's good. And, it's funny you mention that because I read about this very recently. Now, I don't know if this is true or not. They've been for a long time thinking of making The Goonies sequel, but because obviously the actors, you know, it's been like, what, almost 40 years…

14:04Eric ZalaYeah

14:04Jawad Mir... And, have aged. So I read, I don't know where I read it. Now, this could be a complete rumor.

14:10Eric ZalaIt…

14:10Jawad MirSomething similar to what you just said, that they're thinking about doing Goonies in a way where these bunch of kids recreate Goonies frame by frame. The, and the article…

14:21Eric ZalaI know what you... There was, a Goonies, a TV show that was being planned at one point that was essentially our story. A bunch of kids do a shot-for-shot remake of the…

14:33Jawad MirYeah

14:33Eric Zala... Beloved 1980s Spielberg classic, The Goonies, simply swapping Raiders for The Goonies. However, I'm told that project is dead. So, not to be. Mi… might be, you know, the, why go for the plastic imitation when there's the real thing, perhaps.

14:57Jawad MirAnd I think it al… it could also be the fact that Richard Donner, he passed away last year too, and I think he was developing, probably being a producer on it, my guess is. But it's…

15:08Eric ZalaHey

15:09Jawad Mir... Good to know that... Sorry, go on.

15:10Eric ZalaOh, just to say, they got Donner's blessing. But, he obviously, yeah, was up in years, and so just a, just permission sort of thing

15:21Jawad MirYeah

15:21Eric Zala... Is my understanding.

15:24Jawad MirThat's cool that you…

15:25Eric ZalaYeah

15:25Jawad Mir... You're working on this. It, I hope that you go in that route because I know as a, as a storyteller myself, as a filmmaker, it's, it's very difficult to detach yourself from that world, no matter how much you try to, or no matter how much life tries to make you know, because of obviously necessities and, you know, all that stuff.

15:46Eric ZalaYeah.

15:46Jawad MirBut, I would be really thrilled to see, not just the series itself, but good to see people who actually made it to be a part of it. And is Chris gonna be a part of this too if that eventually happens?

16:02Eric ZalaYes. I'm, I'm, if it happens, I'm taking point representing the trio, Chris, Jason, and I. Chris and Jason, I'm in touch with and have, trust me to represent us in terms of, saying yay or nay to any proposed deal.

16:20Jawad MirYeah

16:20Eric Zala... So we will see. And thank you. It's funny. I have, I have felt that tug, and that's why I'm actually, after all this time, looking to do a proper release of the, original film that I directed, which won 20 awards on the film festival. So it did well, but the world hasn't really seen it yet. So I'm just now, putting my baby out into the world proper, so to speak, and we'll see what comes with that. Because…

16:52Jawad MirThat's good

16:52Eric Zala... You know, I'm a creative person at heart.

16:56Jawad MirYeah. There's a, I'm not sure what your plans are for releasing it. 20 minute, it's a 20-minute short, right, you said?

17:03Eric ZalaYeah. There's a limited market for shorts, but, I am gonna be releasing it on Blu-ray, on my website. I sh… most people, it's amazing. I do no advertising, but there's enough awareness of our little Raiders film out there that people with zero advertising have tracked down, my website, which, sells our fan film and also the book, et cetera. And I'm g… gonna be adding An Early Twilight, my film, to that, as a start, and we'll see from there.

17:42Jawad MirTry also, Filmhub. I'm not sure if they take shorts. So it's basically a platform that's started by, Klaus, I don't know his last name. He c… he composed, Pirates of the Caribbean soundtrack, and he works with Hans Zimmer and Harry Gregson-Williams. So basically what you do is you s… you know, you have to go through all this process of submitting the film, artwork and everything, and they go through quality assurance and then they try to push it to platforms out there. So it could be, it could be on Apple TV, it could be on YouTube, it could be on Amazon, or it could be on…

18:20Eric ZalaHuh

18:20Jawad Mir... Tubi. I mean, there's a lot of ways now, right?

18:24Eric ZalaYeah

18:24Jawad Mir... My first, feature documentary 10 years ago, I took the same route. It was at a few festivals, but it didn't get picked up. So at that time, Filmhub wasn't there. There were other platforms that would charge you $1,500 just to submit it, and then depending on how many platforms and how many countries you wanna reach, additional fee. But this one is absolutely free, so look into that.

18:49Eric ZalaThank you.

18:49Jawad MirI don't know about that.

18:50Eric ZalaFilmhub.

18:51Jawad MirYeah.

18:51Eric ZalaYeah.

18:52Jawad MirFilmhub.

18:52Eric ZalaI'll, I'll check it out. I've done some Vimeo, but

18:56Jawad MirVimeo's good, too. Vimeo's good, too

18:58Eric Zala... Yeah.

18:58Jawad MirVimeo On Demand is really good, too. But Filmhub is, it's, it's free, and a lot of peop… and it's proper. It's not like, you know, there's, there've been a lot of scams in the past.

19:08Eric ZalaYeah

19:08Jawad Mir... But yeah, no, that's, that's, that's phenomenal. I would love to check your film out if you want to share it.

19:13Eric ZalaAh, thank you.

19:14Jawad MirI would, I would love to see it. But it's, it's... What is it about? Tell us just a short summary.

19:19Eric ZalaSure. It's, it's a bittersweet drama about a young man who has a rare accelerated aging disease. He, physically he's got the body of an 80-year-old, but emotionally, mentally, he's still in his late 20s. He's married, and his young, beautiful wife loves him, but is physically repulsed by him. And beyond either's control, he's kept in this isolated rest home out in the middle of the country, and he sees her slipping away from him. And so the themes of the movie are about physical attraction. Sure, we're all physical creatures. We need that, but, can you get to a point in a relationship where you can do without that?

20:07Eric ZalaSo that's what that film has on its mind.

20:11Jawad MirI think that's a very relevant topic. I think everybody goes through that, you know, as you progress in life, you know, as you age and stuff, like, what holds people together? And I think that's one of the things, the way, the way we all are, we, as human beings, when we're young, we're, we're stupid, but, you know, we're young in terms of our skin, in terms of our looks, and we're overly g… you know, decently good-looking, most of us are. And then when you age, yeah, that goes away, but that wisdom comes into play and it balances out. You know, i… imagine if we were…... You know, not wise when we're old. We'd be like, there'll be divorces going on everywhere.

20:54Eric ZalaMan, yeah. Very true. Very true.

20:59Jawad MirYeah.

20:59Eric ZalaSo yeah, it's,.. I'm, I'm very proud of it, and did well. So, we shall see. And it's,.. And most people would be, surprised to see, Chris playing a villainous role this time.

21:19Jawad MirAnd h… is there anything else that you have thought of as an idea or even written a script that has nothing to do with Raiders? I know you've talked about Raiders so many times, so I'm just trying to make sure that we talk about other things, too.

21:35Eric ZalaSure.

21:36Jawad MirAnd I'll get back to Raiders.

21:37Eric ZalaThere was a time where Chris and I, were planning on working together to make movies, and we actually co-wrote a feature length script called What the River Takes. And it's, best described as a Southern Gothic action adventure. Never seen, never saw that genre hybrid before, but I wanted to, which sort of melded, the sort of Deep South, that we came from in terms of the milieu and the genre of action adventure, which of course, you know, we warm to. So, however, ultimately not to be. But yes, taking that creative journey. I've, I've written not just a sh… short, but, a feature as well. We'll see.

22:30Jawad MirAnd you must have enjoyed Super 8, which is produced by Spielberg and directed by J.J. Abrams, and obviously Stranger Things in terms of, you know, what you guys went through as children. Like, was that something that you sat down with your kids and watched it and kind of relived your childhood?

22:51Eric ZalaI enjoyed Super 8 a lot. And a lot of folks asked us, "Was that inspired by you guys?" and…

22:58Jawad MirI mean, yeah

22:58Eric Zala... It certainly m… yeah, maybe. I did enjoy it with my kids. Noted the, their makeup guy, his last name was Lamb, same as our makeup guy. But yeah, that and, Beacon Rewind, also similar in terms of that. And also, Son of Rambo, a film from the UK some years ago, was about kids doing a shot, kind of a spoof on the Rambo films. So

23:30Eric Zala... Yeah. Well, all art, inspires other art. Course even Raiders itself inspired by, the adventure serials of the '50s, so, a lot, you know, interesting to see.

23:46Jawad MirYeah, that is, that is so true. I was talking to Mark Mancina, who's done, music for Speed, Bad Boys, Twister, Tarzan, and we were talking about the same thing, couple of days ago, that how it's,.. You know, if you look at Star Wars, and I don't know if you know this composer, Gustav, I always mispronounce his name.

24:09Jawad MirGive me a second. Gustav Holst. And you sh… you should listen to it. There, he has a, it's on YouTube, on Spotify, and Apple, I think. It's called The Planets. So it's like a full-fledged album, and if you listen to it, almost every... If you're into movie scores, every composer from John Williams to Hans Zimmer gets some notes from there. In fact…

24:39Eric ZalaHuh

24:39Jawad Mir... There's a piece in, there's a piece in Gladiator, when they're having a Colosseum fight, there's, it's very similar to that. And then even in Star Wars Episode IV, I don't know the track, there is this piece that goes dun. That is literally a piece from that movie. So…

25:01Eric ZalaMan

25:01Jawad Mir... It's, it's not that I'm, I'm trying to say that there's, you know, anything wrong happening. I think we all somehow, when we are inspired by somebody or someone, we pick certain things at a very subconscious level, or just as a, as a little tribute that, "Hey, you know what? You, that's the reason that I am who I am, so thank you."

25:21Eric ZalaAbsolutely. Yeah. It sticks to our ribs, so to speak. We process it, internalize it, and it comes out in the work. It is,.. That's, that's so very true. I've just finished reading The Glass Key, which was a 1930s crime no… novel by Dashiell Hammett, which was, the Coen brothers later, drew from strongly to create that wonderful gangster film Miller's Crossing.

25:50Jawad MirYeah

25:50Eric Zala... Yeah, and we could go on and on with examples, but yeah, nothing's born full out of whole cloth, is it? Hopefully we can, it becomes fresh through different combinations and our own lens.

26:03Jawad MirI think there was a article that I was reading, or somebody was telling me, that, or it's a book, that there's literally seven stories that are unique stories that exist in the world. And everything else is sort of, everything else is like a, like a…

26:19Eric ZalaOffshoot

26:19Jawad Mir... You know, the child. Yeah, an offshoot of that, and th… that's it.

26:22Eric ZalaHuh.

26:22Jawad MirThere's only seven unique stories. And if you look at Star Wars, right? Like, I know we're going off topic here, but if you look at Star Wars and if you look at Avatar, I don't know if you've seen the most recent Avatar, The Way of Water.

26:34Eric ZalaI have.

26:35Jawad MirThere's a lot of, you know, similarities in there. Yet the only difference is that it's different worlds. If you look at Lord of the Rings, I mean, e… even if you look at Spielberg's films, like all the ones that he's done, there's so many similarities within each of them in terms of characters or in terms of plot lines or dialogue and what. And I think you can't get away with that. Like, you know when I just finished two feature documentaries just recently, and I made them simultaneously for some, for reasons that I didn't... It just happened that way. It wasn't planned.

27:09Jawad MirAnd no matter how much I tried to differentiat… They are very different, but there was always that part of me inside them at all times, no matter how m… hard I tried not to do it, because that's just how it works.

27:22Eric ZalaYeah.

27:22Jawad MirYou're always embedding yourself in the art that you create, and I'm sure you too. You know, with the film that you created, the short film, that's, that's how... There's always something sitting or lingering in your brain that takes, that brings out that script or that story to life.

27:38Eric ZalaAbsolutely. I even, I'm, I'm old enough now that I can recognize my own influences in there, you know? Which I, you know, some was One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Another was a independent film called The Water Dance. Witness with Harrison Ford. All…

27:55Jawad MirYeah

27:55Eric Zala... You know, just very subtle things, that I don't th… know if anyone else would notice. But I know where they came from.

28:06Jawad MirYeah.

28:06Eric ZalaAnd it's, it's mysterious and wonderful.

28:10Jawad MirIt's cool, I think. And, you know, Eric, going back to Raiders, when Raiders blew up, right? Like the way you had never imagined, how did that, how did you deal with that kind of, fame, if you wanna call it, right? Like, how was... 'Cause it's, everybody deals with it differently, and it's difficult thing to handle. It's not an easy task, right? How did you deal with it or, like, d… yeah, tell me that process, if there was ever an issue, you know, dealing with it.

28:39Eric ZalaWell, there wasn't a huge thing. I'd say, you know, I'm, I'm semi-famous. People don't stop me on the street. People don't…

28:49Jawad MirI know

28:50Eric Zala... Recognize me. But, it is, it is been a wonderful thing seeing the recognition in folks. So I've kind of gotten good balance. You know, this film that we shot in my mom's basement just for ourselves, you know, people have, I've had conversations with people around the world about it. But, it is, it's,.. As a result, I've seen my own film, Raiders 100 times for every one time I've seen the original Raiders.

29:27Jawad MirYeah.

29:27Eric ZalaSo now when I see the original Raiders, it's a surreal experience that feels like a big budget remake of our film. Anyway.

29:33Jawad MirOkay.

29:34Eric ZalaNo, I've, I've, I've been very fortunate in that the balance of the attention has not, impacted my life negatively.

29:43Jawad MirYeah.

29:43Eric ZalaActually later on, 25 years later when we got the gang back together to do one scene we couldn't do, the airplane scene, the fact that we had fans worldwide enabled us to have a lot more resources this time. So many people working for free to realize the dream. That kind of support we c… only could have dreamt of back when we were kids.

30:14Jawad MirYeah.

30:14Eric ZalaSo, I'm grateful for that.

30:17Jawad MirDo you think had that been picked up in 1990 or 1991 when you were younger, the result would have been different…... In terms of, like, as kids handling it?

30:28Eric ZalaI'm grateful that it wasn't discovered until we were, kind of like in our mid-30s almost.

30:36Jawad MirYeah.

30:36Eric ZalaBecause yeah, it is,.. For a while, we, folks tracked us down and invited us to screenings from Sitka, Alaska to Sydney, Australia, and the three of us are traveling. At one point, Jason, yeah, it was, it, you're, you're right, it's fun, but it's also can be exhausting. He said…

30:56Jawad MirYeah

30:56Eric Zala... "I'm getting burnt out. I'm, I'm taking a sabbatical. I'm, I'm off." you know, so that, you know, that happens. But, still, grateful for that experience.

31:14Jawad MirYeah. No, I bet. And how much,.. When you, when your film started making rounds or, you know, beyond Spielberg and Eli Roth, the-raider.net, which I'm sure you're familiar with

31:28Eric ZalaAh, yes.

31:29Jawad MirYeah. How... I know it's still being discussed, right now, like even yesterday I was... I don't know if you know Mitch. He runs the Raider, event.

31:39Eric ZalaOh, yes., huh.

31:41Jawad MirYeah. I spoke to him couple of ti… about a month ago, and how it's still, it's still something with the new Indiana Jones film coming out now, it might reignite interest, right? Especially with the new fan base. Like, do you plan to do anything or do you, if something, an opportunity came, would you want to do something, like more screenings or, more Q&As or anything to promote it even…

32:11Eric ZalaYeah. Yeah

32:12Jawad Mir... Even more?

32:13Eric ZalaI'm, I'm very grateful, as I said, for this experience. Folks, as far as, we knew we were alone in the world doing this and, it's, so many people have described the vicarious satisfaction that they've see… gotten, from seeing us do it right, you know, t… and to complete it, as crazy and wacky as a thing as it is. So yeah, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm still doing screenings because it still brings me joy.

32:52Jawad MirAnd that leads to my next question, right? Like, I wonder sometimes, and this is not to you, but in general, like there are a lot of actors, and films that have always... Like ET, for example, right? Or Home Alone, where, you know, Drew Barrymore had a career afterwards. Henry Thomas probably here and there. I think he came in Legends of the Fall. But to be s… I don't wanna use the word stuck, but I will use it. To be stuck to one film and where everybody approaches you and talks about that one film all over and over again…

33:29Jawad Mir... Does it get tiring? Does it get... Or I mean, I know it's, you have to be grateful, but at the same time, you know, we're all human beings. We wish, we deep down we probably think we wish that other work is appreciated as well or, something else about me. But does that ever get, happen to you?

33:45Eric ZalaYou know, sometimes, it's true that some questions often come up. "How'd your, how'd you make the boulder? Why didn't you give up?" you know, and I have to, catch myself from, you know, doing the answers rote. But no, it's, it's, it's not a problem. I, as I said, I think I have just recently decided to re… release, you know, An Early Twilight, my film. Perhaps feels like the timing is right. But no, I don't resent, that. It's still, when I see it through an audience's eyes, it's still fresh. So yeah, no complaints.

34:39Jawad MirNo, that's good. I'm not, I would... Like I said, I wasn't saying that it's a complaint. It's, it's tough. You know, it's, it's like a double-edged sword that you're dealing with all, you know, this is good that people are recognizing you.

34:50Eric ZalaYeah

34:50Jawad Mir... But beyond that. But i… you know, in relation to, your ki… like your kids, for example, right now, right? Like, have, ha… have they seen it? I'm assuming they have.

35:02Eric ZalaOh, yes. In fact, they traveled with us the whole 65-city tour in a Raiders RV. So yes, in fact, sold merch at the merch table in the lobby. God bless them. So yes, they were a… aboard for the adventure, and…

35:19Jawad MirAnd…

35:19Eric Zala... And know Dad's film.

35:21Jawad MirAnd they've seen the R… Raiders of Lost Ark?

35:23Eric ZalaOh, yes.

35:25Jawad MirHow has... And if this is a too much of a personal question, please tell me. I tend to avoid those, but I think in this it's kind of relevant. How has your relationship with your kids... Y… y… is it fair to say that because of the film and the tour, your relationship with your kids has gotten better over time? Not that it was bad, but just, it just evolved a lot in a positive way.

35:49Eric ZalaYeah, you know, kind of, doing things as a, as a family, bonds you, generally speaking. So yes, I think, I think, definitely so. When we were doing the airplane scene, in fact, my son, he, like, wrote this essay for a school assignment, you know, what I would do with $100,000 and said, "I would give it to my dad 'cause he's trying to do the airplane scene. I wanna see him finish his dream."

36:21Jawad MirOh.

36:21Eric ZalaGod, you know. And that, of course, you know…

36:24Jawad MirThat's awesome

36:24Eric Zala... Touched me a… and also added pressure. It's like, if I didn't, if I couldn't fail before, I really can't now.

36:30Jawad MirYeah.

36:30Eric ZalaYou know? My son is counting on me. And I won't, And it was nice to have them there on the set too, and see it all in action too. Even when we blow up the airplane at the end, and I, and I won't say anything because, no spoilers for any who haven't seen the documentary.

36:55Jawad MirYeah, sure.

36:56Eric ZalaYou know?

36:58Jawad MirYeah

36:58Eric Zala... But it was good to have them there, in both, harrowing times and triumphant times.

37:07Jawad MirFor sure. Is it fair to say that one of the reasons you made the film that you did with, you know, Chris and, Jason is probably because it helped build your relationship with your kids a lot stronger? If anything, that was the one thing that came out of it, besides anything else.

37:28Eric ZalaYou saying why we did it when we were kids, or why we did the airplane…

37:31Jawad MirNo, I'm saying…

37:32Eric Zala... Scene as adults?

37:33Jawad MirNo, I'm saying is it fair to say... You know, sometimes things happen in our lives that we don't…

37:37Eric ZalaOh

37:37Jawad Mir... We think we did it bec… it had happened because of A reason, the reason…

37:42Eric ZalaYeah

37:42Jawad Mir... Number A, number one. But deep, you know, further down in life, we realize it could be because it, of something else. So this road trip that you did with your family, right? You probably wouldn't have done that if there was no Raiders. So had, do you... And I'm just trying to be a little too... I shouldn't, I shouldn't be, but I'm maybe I'm looking…

38:04Eric ZalaNo

38:04Jawad Mir... Into it too much. But, you know, is it possible that maybe it was being set up, the reason you made that film is to have that road trip with your kids? I mean.

38:13Eric ZalaAh, I see what you're saying.

38:15Jawad MirYeah

38:16Eric Zala... Yeah, you know, looking back on it seemed perfect and inevitable. Yeah. And it changed me and that experience and us, as a unit. Yeah, you know, I think, I think so. Like you said, we don't always know the underpinnings. Really, we're emotional creatures, not logical.

38:44Jawad MirYeah, that's true. That's true. We think we are logical at a certain age, but you know, we're always hiding our emotions inside and not letting them out.

38:52Eric ZalaTrue.

38:52Jawad MirJust because the world that we live in, you know, it's a, it's a very, it's a very loving, but a, you know, at the same time crude world, so you have to protect things.

39:02Eric ZalaYes.

39:03Jawad MirAnd Eric, in terms of... I'm not gonna ask you the questions that you've already been asked about the hurdles and all that stuff, because I figured you've been asked that many times. I, in terms of your friendship with, Eric and Jason,.. Sorry, Eric, not Eric. Chris and Jason, how, what were some of the things that... You know, I'm sure when you, when two people are working together, there's ups and there's downs and stuff. How did that play in terms of your relationship with them, dealing with disagreements and h… maybe it helped you become a little bit more, both all of you understanding with each other how to deal with disagreements. How... Maybe give an example without... I'm not looking for controversy, just human dynamics, that's all.

39:53Eric ZalaWell, you know, it was a double-edged sword, the fact that we're all so different from each other. The difference is, that diversity, we each brought something different to the table, 'cause nobody's good at everything. H… and those differences, the double-edged sword part is that, yeah, you can, you can clash, more if you're such, different people. And as much as the logistical challenges are, loom large in production, at least with ours, our big challenges were such people, things. I had a megaphone that annoyed Chris, I found out later. And as a director, you know, I didn't right out of the gate know how to well manage people. That's something I learned through the course of doing it, and I'm, I feel skilled at it now, but there was growth.

41:00Eric ZalaAnd, for Chris, you know, he, might be the most tempted of the three of us to give up, you know? And so there was, some push-pull there. You know, we, there was something of an editing room mutiny, as we were almost over the finish line. And, we ended one summer not talking to each other for a year, until Last Crusade came out and I invited Chris to it…

41:32Jawad MirOh

41:32Eric Zala... As I hoped he got inspired, and we went back into the editing room and did it right. And thank goodness, 'cause, nobody would know or care about our film had it not been properly finished. But that's people conflict right there.

41:50Jawad MirYeah

41:50Eric Zala... You know, film's the most collaborative medium, and that, I think, is one of its challenges.

41:57Jawad MirYeah. It's, it's, it's so true that the best of things can come out of the worst of arguments and disagreements, right?

42:04Eric ZalaYeah.

42:05Jawad MirAnd that's, that's so important that a lot of people don't realize in filmmaking is that you have to... And not just in filmmaking, and even if you have a business, like you have… ... To surround yourself that are people, where people are better in different crafts than you are.

42:23Eric ZalaYeah.

42:23Jawad MirAnd even in some, even what you do, you know, like even if you're leading the ship, like as a director, you may come across an advice. Like, you know, Spielberg g… tell, tells a story from Raiders, which I'm sure you know. The whole scene in the classroom when the girl, when she, you know, closed... It came…

42:40Eric ZalaYes

42:41Jawad Mir... From the first n… first AD.

42:43Eric ZalaYes, I love that

42:44Jawad Mir... Yeah. And that, and then that ego doesn't come into play. Well, you know, who the hell are you type of thing, and…

42:50Eric ZalaRight

42:50Jawad Mir... And that's the reason films succeed, because of that collaboration. And what I loved about your story here of that, and you know, people's, we take movies as entertainment and everything, which is, which is true, but they are much more deeper. The fact that you two came back together because of Last Crusade…... You know, it just…

43:10Eric ZalaRight

43:10Jawad Mir... Speaks volumes that the importance of cinema and art and all this stuff, because it connects people in a, in a way that we don't think it does.

43:19Eric ZalaAbsolutely. As different as we were, you know, we both could become inspired and subsumed by, you know, that world, and, gets the blood going, you know, lights the fire in the belly, whatever metaphor you wanna use. And yes, unites us. Film and art can do that.

43:43Jawad MirYeah. No, and what's, what's your favorite Indie film besides, Raiders? I mean, I know that probably is a... Deep question, but we're gonna take that out completely.

43:53Eric ZalaWell, that's a, that's a tough one. Well, I like, I like both, the second one and the third one. You know, and the fourth one's okay. I…

44:10Jawad MirYeah

44:10Eric Zala... Color me excited for the fifth, though. I'm a James Mang… Mangold fan, and, guy hasn't done a bad film yet. So…

44:18Jawad MirRight

44:18Eric Zala... I feel like, you know, we're in good hands. And yeah.

44:24Jawad MirYeah, I agree, because I'm not a superhero fan, like I don't watch superhero Marvel movies or DC. I've only seen the Christopher Nolan Batman trilogy, and I don't consider that superhero movie. But the one…

44:35Eric ZalaYeah

44:35Jawad Mir... Logan, right? Like that… ... That, what he did with that, there was nothing superhero about it. It was just a relationship based movie with, you know, action and all that.

44:46Eric ZalaYeah.

44:46Jawad MirBut yeah, you know, he's, he's... The trailer looks good. We'll see. I mean, I wasn't a fan of the fourth one at all. And, but the funny thing is I saw the fourth one just recently, and I liked it more than I did when it came out. I don't know why. Maybe…... Maybe I looked into it too much at the time. But yeah, you're right. The La… I mean, Last Crusade for me is my favorite. I don't know why that is, but, you know, it's, it's, it... I'm looking forward to the fifth one, and I hope, I hope they close the curtains with Indy on this instead of spinning it off into a series or anything like they've done with Star Wars, but.

45:27Eric ZalaYeah. Me too. I loved... Temple of Doom h… did its own thing, but, Last Crusade had, the father relationship, was really wonderful thing.

45:41Jawad MirYeah. And it was done really well. Like, if you watch, I don't know when was the last time you saw Last Crusade. I just saw it recently, and that whole sequence from the time he helps his father escape from the Germans…

45:56Eric Zalahuh

45:56Jawad Mir... Up until, the time when he falls off the tank, you know, presumably.

46:02Eric ZalaYeah.

46:03Jawad MirIt, there's just so much there, and it's not even Indiana Jones. It has nothing to do with archeology. If you look really deep, it has nothing to do with anything but just that father and son relationship…

46:13Eric ZalaYeah

46:13Jawad Mir... In a very humorous way, where he's always trying to please him, and he's not, you know, giving him that approval. And I think that's a story of almost everybody in the world.

46:23Eric ZalaYeah.

46:23Jawad MirAnd that's what resonates with people, right?

46:26Eric ZalaYeah. Expanded the character i… of Indy in a way we hadn't seen, before.

46:32Jawad MirYeah. Are your plans to go see the last Indy film, or supposedly Indiana Jones and Dial of Destiny on the opening day with your family, or?

46:42Eric ZalaOh, absolutely.

46:45Jawad MirYeah?

46:46Eric ZalaAbsolutely. Yeah, I can't wait. It'll have to be a big screen experience as soon as possible with lots of hot buttered popcorn and my kids on either side of me.

46:57Jawad MirDo your kids love Indiana Jones films?

46:59Eric ZalaThey do.

47:00Jawad MirLike you?

47:00Eric ZalaThey do. We have movie night twice a week. And

47:05Jawad MirYeah

47:05Eric Zala... So I do my best to try to fill them in on cinema. My son is actually a Kurosawa fan. ... You know? My daughter into horror movies. Go figure. So they've, they've got their own tastes. I wouldn't want them to be clones of me, but I, they definitely appreciate the spectacle that only, and, that only cinema can offer.

47:32Jawad MirYeah. And what's your take on cinema now, you know, with the, with the craziness? I mean, things are changing, right? Like…

47:40Eric ZalaYeah

47:40Jawad Mir... Ever since Iron Man came out in 2007 or '8, things have completely flipped. Like, the idea of those smaller films that Miramax used to release or other studios, Focus, A24, like that has sort of disappeared, and the only time you hear about these films is if they get nominated for an Oscar.

48:01Jawad MirRight? Like I will go through sometimes films of tw… 2020 or 2015, and they would have, like, pretty good, decent, stark, cast, but I had never heard of them… ... Because of the i… everybody pays attention to superhero stuff. And but do you feel that... What's your view on the future of cinema? When I, you know, say cinema, I'm not classifying, I'm, I'm just, I'm just talking about independent and real storytelling. The escapism will always be there, I think…

48:34Eric ZalaYeah

48:34Jawad Mir... You know, whether it's Top Gun, which was a great film. But other stuff, like the real human stories without the big production and big budget.

48:44Eric ZalaI think as big as a… as a zeitgeist as the superhero genre has been, I think we're seeing the decline of it, now. It's ebb and flow. A… and I was, you know, I'm a... Before I thought I was, you know, before I was into movies, I was into comic books.

49:07Eric Zala... Drew my own, before I got roped into the Raiders thing. So it was exciting seeing those come k… come to life and done well. But yeah, there's been a dearth of substantial, films. I think the pendulum will swing the other way. You know, it can't remain static. Y… you're seeing some of that with the latest Ant-Man film, you know. People, can't seem to get excited about it. Shazam 2, you know, is meeting a similar malaise it seems. So I think, I think it's gonna go the other way. Might be wishful thinking on my part, but I hope so. Tarantino an… announcing his 10th film…

49:57Eric Zala... Maybe that will help, you know…

50:00Jawad MirYeah

50:00Eric Zala... Knock it in the right direction.

50:03Jawad MirI agree with you, and I feel that it is something that... I mean, that's just in life, right? Like, everything shifts back and forth. But, I really hope the cinema that, you know, we at least... I don't know where, what's some of your favorite films, but you know, for me, '90s and the '70s, you know, has the most... '80s too, but '80s was a little different, right? It was a lot of, like, action, like Lethal Weapon, which was amazing. Like, I loved…

50:32Eric ZalaYeah

50:32Jawad Mir... But there were different types of films, like, you know, as opposed to superheroes, it's like, you know, trying to save the world and all that.

50:39Eric ZalaYeah.

50:39Jawad MirBut what do you, d… what, to kind of end on this is, like, what's some of your favorite films beside Indiana Jones… ... That you connect to at a very deeper level?

50:51Eric ZalaI love, Peter Weir, actually. I love his work.

50:56Jawad MirLove his work.

50:57Eric ZalaYeah.

50:57Jawad MirLove his work.

50:58Eric ZalaThe Mosquito Coast, God, I... Fantastic, and Harrison Ford's, to this day, still best performance, and that's saying a lot…

51:07Jawad MirI agree

51:07Eric Zala... Man is an actor. So I love that. Loved, Kubrick, The Shining, Barry Lyndon, Lolita, Paths of Glory, Dr. Strangelove.

51:23Jawad MirGood

51:24Eric Zala... I'm a fan of Christopher Nolan as well. And yeah, his whole body of work has been fantastic. Enjoyed The Lord of the Rings. Not The Hobbit, distinguishing from that, but The Lord of the Rings movies…

51:43Jawad MirYeah

51:43Eric Zala... I think stand the test of time, and they should leave those alone. There's talk of remaking those. Don't bother, in my book. Milos Forman

51:54Jawad MirOh, I miss his work.

51:56Eric ZalaYeah. The Coen Brothers, those are some of my…

52:00Jawad MirLove

52:00Eric Zala... Favorite filmmakers.

52:02Jawad MirYeah, so you like the main cinema stuff. Speaking of Peter Weir, I'm sure you've seen Dead Poets Society.

52:09Eric ZalaOh, yes.

52:10Jawad MirOh. That, to me, that is his best film. I mean, others are great too, but that is an amazing film. You know, "Captain, oh, my captain," it's just something you just don't... And I wish kids nowadays see that film because, it's important and... But I'm glad that, you know, your taste of cinema is pretty much what a lot of people nowadays are craving for.

52:33Eric ZalaYeah.

52:34Jawad MirAnd I hope it comes back,.. But yeah, listen, Eric, thank you so much, man, for your time. I know we didn't talk about Raiders a lot, but I just wanted to get, like, a different side of things and different input…

52:45Eric ZalaYeah

52:45Jawad Mir... Because I know you've talked about Raiders a lot more than anything else, so.

52:49Eric ZalaI appreciate it. Yeah. No, it was fun. Thank you.

52:52Jawad MirGreat, man. Thank you so much for your time.

52:55Eric ZalaAbsolutely.