'Argylle', Production Designer, Daniel Taylor

0:08Jawad MirWhere are you in UK?

0:10Daniel TaylorSo I'm just... I'm actually just outside Oxford. I'm sure you know Oxford is kind of about an hour away from London, so…

0:18Jawad MirOh, yeah

0:19Daniel Taylor... Essentially southwest. Yeah.

0:20Jawad MirI've, I've been to Oxford, for a screening of one of my film at the university. I remember taking the bux… bus from Heathrow, and it was a nice long journey.

0:32Daniel TaylorSay that again. Sorry, I br… you broke up.

0:35Jawad MirSorry, I said, I went to Oxford, about a year and a half ago for a screening…

0:41Daniel TaylorOh, did you?

0:41Jawad Mir... Of one of my... For one screening of one of my film at Oxford University, and I took the bus from Heathrow to, Oxford, and it was a nice long ride.

0:50Daniel TaylorYeah. Yeah.

0:51Jawad MirYeah.

0:51Daniel TaylorIt is a... Well, Oxford's very pretty, very pr… it's very…

0:55Jawad MirIt is

0:55Daniel Taylor... Typically, essentially British, isn't it? And

0:57Jawad MirYeah

0:57Daniel Taylor... A big university town, city, so, yeah. And it's not actually that far from London, as you said, really. It's an hour, I suppose maybe a little bit longer if you're on a bus or a coach.

1:07Jawad MirIt…

1:07Daniel TaylorBut yeah, it's, it's a beautiful school.

1:08Jawad MirIt's not... Yeah, it's not bad, but I think when you get off a plane after a red-eye…

1:14Daniel TaylorYeah

1:14Jawad Mir... Then you're just completely tired. So I think from that standpoint, it felt like it. But yeah, Oxford is beautiful. I mean, I remember, walking around the university campus. I actually stayed at the campus. It was, it was…

1:25Daniel TaylorOh, did you?

1:25Jawad Mir... It was absolutely beau… yeah. It was beautiful. They had some, they have some hotels, kinda like dorm/hotel, facilities and it w… it was cool. It was really good. Anyways, thank you for joining. Appreciate it. Good to have you here.

1:43Daniel TaylorPleasure. Thank you for having me on.

1:46Jawad MirI wanted to talk to you about your most recently work, and I have a hard time pronouncing this name. Is it Argylle, right?

1:56Daniel TaylorIt is Argylle, yeah.

1:58Jawad MirArgylle, yeah.

1:58Daniel TaylorI think if you were, if you were Scottish, I think it would be called Argylle, so you kind of accent the G of Argylle. But everybody else is pronouncing it Argylle, with the accent on the A. So, I'm sure however you choose to say it will be absolutely fine.

2:16Jawad MirGreat. Yeah, I... One of the things that caught my attention in the film aside from, you know, overall I wasn't too crazy about the film, but I did really like the production des… I'm just being honest. I'm just being honest.

2:31Daniel TaylorNo, a… listen, I'm, I, you know, I, it's absolutely fine, yeah. It, I mean, it was, it's, it's kind of, you know, it is fun. It wasn't ever supposed to take itself too seriously.

2:41Jawad MirYeah.

2:42Daniel TaylorI think critically, you know, Matthew, w… never really does films for, what their criti… critical success will be. It's almost more, a little bit more about the kind of audience's enjoyment. But, yeah. Yeah, I…

2:55Jawad MirYeah, it's…

2:56Daniel TaylorYeah, I get you.

2:57Jawad MirNo, I'm... I like Matthew's work. I mean, I have enjoyed Kingsman and, other films. I think he did Kick Ass, if I'm not mistaken.

3:05Daniel TaylorYeah, he did. Yeah.

3:07Jawad MirYou know, those were great, and that's fine. I mean, we... Everybody has different tastes, but the, what I was trying to say was that the production design in this film, like that was, to me, what stood out the most. It had its fun moments. It was entertaining, but, you know, not something…

3:23Daniel TaylorYeah

3:23Jawad Mir... That you deeply connect with i… in any way.

3:27Daniel TaylorYeah. No, that's... Sure, yeah

3:27Jawad Mir... But, you know, b… before we get onto that, I al… I'm always interested in everyone's journey, how they get to where they are.

3:37Daniel TaylorYeah

3:37Jawad Mir... I would love to know what your arc has been in terms of trying, figuring out what you wanna do in your life e… you know, if it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago. What instigated this…

3:51Daniel TaylorYeah

3:52Jawad Mir... Bug?

3:53Daniel TaylorSo I mean, I mean, I don't think there is actually a conventional way that people seem to succeed or progress in film. I've kind of, I had a slightly kind of strange introduction to it in that I didn't want... I actually wanted to be an airline pilot, and had no interest or even really appreciation or knowledge that there was a film industry that you, it was a kind of a thing that you could do. And I watched... I'd chosen my A levels, which were kind of those, the s… more senior grades here

4:34Jawad MirRight

4:34Daniel Taylor... That would, that would suit it kind of being an airline pilot, so maths and geography. I think biology actually, 'cause I quite like the science. And then I watched Trainspotting.

4:46Jawad MirAh.

4:46Daniel TaylorThis was back in '96, I suppose.

4:48Jawad MirI m… yep.

4:49Daniel Taylor1996.

4:50Jawad MirYeah.

4:50Daniel TaylorYeah. And, which was designed by the marvelous K. Quinn, and I kind of was just completely overtaken by this film. It kind of really did affect me in a way that other films hadn't. I kind of, I really started to understand that there was a way that you could enhance the narrative with an aesthetic, and you could kind of world build, these environments to suit the characters and the story. And, it just got me thinking that, you know, I didn't really want to be an airline pilot and that I kind of wanted to k… to carry on trying to tell a story with the aesthetics. So I kind of... My mom went to school with, somebody who knew somebody who was a construction manager who worked in the industry in London, and I kind of at 18, in a three-piece suit, literally fresh out of school, went to meet this construction manager. And nobody wears three-piece suits in an art department. Like, it was so peculiar, and I w… I was so fresh out of school.

5:53Daniel TaylorWent there, and it just turn… just happened, it just so happened, sorry, that, production designer who I met at the construction manager's, o… in the o… at the office there, had been to the same school as me, like 60 years before I'd kind of graduated. And, we kind of, we talk, we talked about the school and how it had changed and he was like, "Yeah, I'll see you, kind of see you Monday." And, I kind of, I was given an opportunity as an art department runner. I had zero qualifications. I didn't really understand that there was... I knew I wanted to be in an art department, but I didn't know what an art department was or what it looked like or how it is. And then, and I've learned on the job, basically. I haven't been to any of the film, the film schools here or the art schools. I've just kind of picked up knowledge and information as I've kind of progressed through the art department at the different ranks. And I started out in very terrible television in the UK, some absolute shockers that I'm not...

6:54Daniel TaylorWell, I am proud of, but not as proud as I am of Argylle or True Detective, for example. Kind of the… but they offered me a huge amount of, learning, un… understanding more about the kind of makeup of the department, how it interacts with the set dec department and construction, 'cause it was a big set build, s… a big, a big set build, project, set in a women's prison called Bad Girls. It's

7:23Daniel TaylorYeah. It was, it was a, an i… an interesting kind of four or five years of my life. And I got on really well with the designer, and they kept asking me back to do second season, third season, fourth season. So I kind of worked my way up within the department on this one show. And that, yeah, that's kind of how I got into it. I mean, actually, curiously, I sent an email to Kay, when I was an art director, like 15 years after I'd kind of, you know, seen her work and used her as inspiration to get me into the industry. And wrote her an email and said, "Hey, just to let you know, back in the summer of 1996, you had no idea, but you caused huge ruptions in my, in my family, in my household. I decided, having watched Trainspotting, that I would change career path from an airline pilot to the film industry, and I just wanted to say thank you and I'm doing it, and I really appreciate kind of what you've done for me and my career." And she wrote back, and we've worked on three or four projects actually since.

8:25Daniel TaylorSo, it was really lovely to kind of correct, you know, full circle.

8:29Jawad MirThat's awesome. That's, you know, that's something that's extremely meaningful to anyone in any industry when you, when you get inspired by someone and then you end up connecting, you know, with them…

8:43Daniel TaylorYeah

8:43Jawad Mir... And then eventually working with them.

8:45Daniel TaylorYeah.

8:45Jawad MirThat is, that is, that... I think that is... I don't know what the right word would be, but just, like, a such a big fulfillment that…

8:56Daniel TaylorYeah

8:56Jawad Mir... Not necessarily, like, that's it in life, but it's just a huge... Bec… and then also what it does, it boosts your confidence to a level that is unfathomable, right? So awesome.

9:07Daniel TaylorYeah.

9:08Jawad MirGood for you.

9:08Daniel TaylorYeah, that's true. I hadn't thought of it quite like that. I kind of felt like, I felt like it... I know that if I was Kay and I had inspired somebody, I would feel really... It would be really important to complete the circle. And you're, and you're right, it kind of, it does feel kind of be meaningful. Yeah.

9:28Jawad MirAm… amazing. And what are some of the challenges that you have gone through in your career? And I'm not honestly looking for any controversial stuff or... The reason I ask you is that in any indust… in life in general, you go through struggles, right?

9:45Daniel TaylorYeah.

9:45Jawad MirBut in our industry, the struggle is quite real, like, you know, from the standpoint of trying to figure out if you are gonna do something that is more creative versus trying to put bread on the, food on the table, right? And…

10:01Daniel TaylorYeah

10:01Jawad Mir... Though i… in that kind of sense, like, what kind of struggles have you gone through that people, you know, younger people who might be aspiring to be whatever it is, including production designer…

10:15Daniel TaylorYeah

10:16Jawad Mir... How can they overcome that?

10:17Daniel TaylorYou know, what the biggest, the biggest... I mean, not the biggest thing, and I think probably as I talk about it, I'll think of some other things. But you know what? Right now, actually I feel that there are a huge amount of, people in the film industry not working. I've got, I've got friends and family in it, and, you know, some are having to defer payments to... Well, I, for one, have had to defer payments to our government to pay for the taxes. I've got friends that are having to go in to speak to the head teachers at school and say, "Can we pay for the school fees next term?" Friends are being, working at coffee shops and becoming Uber drivers. I think, I think the writers' strike and then the actors' strike has kind of, has sent a lot of people into a tailspin over here. I think also just all of the kind of the fresh faces and those kind of young graduates that have just managed to kind of navigate through COVID and try and get their head above water to then being hit with the double punches for the strikes, I think a lot of, a lot of people have, are questioning whether they want to continue in the industry in those more kind of junior grades.

11:26Daniel TaylorAnd I think, I think that's, that's, that will be a struggle for us later. But I just, I feel that's really sad because I honestly believe that what I do, the job as a production designer in certainly these kind of higher tier projects is the best job in the world. It's kind of unfathomable how kind of extraordinary, the places I get to see, the things I do, the people I meet. I think, I think this is the, this last, this last nine months, I think, I've found myself really having days where I struggle to kind of get up. I feel like, I feel like because production design and working in this industry is kind of all-encompassing, and it is completely an obsession, it… It's very difficult for you to kind of, or I find it very difficult to have a, another interest, whether it's spiritual or religious or another outlet for creativity. You end up being defined by this as an industry.

12:28Daniel TaylorSo when the industry does a nosedive you really struggle to think, "Fuck, my life's also doing a bit of a nosedive because I am, because we are defined by this as a, as a, as an industry," I feel. I feel this is what I'm struggling with. And there have certainly been days in the last, in the last few months where I've been really, like, struggling to kind of understand a bit more about, my identity, who I am because I'm not working. And trying to find some kind of motivation to either, not necessarily just get up, but just find another something that can kind of interest me or I can find engaging. Because I have really learnt a lot over the last nine months for me to try and have an alternative thing, and that allows me to not only be defined by the production design life in film. I, you know, I need, I need something else I think. So I've… that's kind of something that I've been struggling with fairly recently.

13:31Daniel TaylorI think, I think in this industry there isn't enough support for us, and our mental health. I find that budgets are tightening, the schedule is getting… the schedules are getting shorter. What we're, what we're being asked to deliver is not necessarily, in keeping with the constraints that we have financially. I feel like, this industry is kind of, it's got lots of very complicated people in. And I think certainly in the creative side we're generally a bit more empathetic and I feel like, I feel, I feel sometimes that, I'm wearing a lot of, a lot of other people's emotions. And I struggle to deal with that in environments that are a little bit more high-pressured. I feel like sometimes there are, it's not necessarily... I wouldn't say bullying. I think that might be a little bit strong.

14:32Daniel TaylorBut, I find that there are some people that are kind of traumatic to be around, you know? It's n…

14:38Jawad MirYeah, of course

14:39Daniel TaylorYeah. And I feel like if you're in the industry as a creative, I feel like you wear a lot of their personality too if you're kind of on a day-to-day, if you're dealing with them on a day-to-day basis. I mean, up until probably the last five or six years probably when I actually moved into production designing from supervising art directing and just running a department, with the production designer, I've, I've, I have, I have found myself not struggling with anything really. I think when you move into that production designer position it becomes a little bit more lonely and you've got producers and directors that you're having to kind of impress and be front of house for an art department that you need to motivate.

15:27Daniel TaylorAnd I found sometimes trying to balance that very difficult. I've, I've either got one thing right and not the other, or really failing at the other thing and getting the other bit and then kind of passing by with it. Sorry, just getting through with the other bit. So it's… I don't know. I've found, I've found that balance difficult, especially when you've got complicated people that you're kind of trying to, trying to tease out what they want or,.. So I suppose that's the same in any, in any kind of industry really when you get to a kind of the HOD of your department and you've got a number of different hats that you need to wear at different times, and I struggle to change them, if you see what I mean.

16:09Jawad MirYeah, no clear… I most certainly do. And I think one thing that I, what happens is as you… I'm assuming you're in your mid-40s, if I'm not wrong.

16:20Daniel TaylorYeah.

16:20Jawad MirRight?

16:20Daniel Taylor40… exactly, 44.

16:21Jawad MirYeah. I think when you are in that timeframe, so am I, and you go through something. It… I think the, a lot of people call it midlife crisis. I don't believe it's midlife crisis. It's called, for me, it's like finding a purpose, right? Like what is the purpose…

16:43Daniel TaylorYeah

16:43Jawad Mir... Of your existence?

16:44Daniel TaylorYeah.

16:45Jawad MirAnd one of the key things that you talked about, it's, it's so bang on, is that when you are working in that environment and you're truly enjoying it, and then when you get out of that environment, even though it ha… may have its, you know, side effects of people with baggage and their attitudes and all that's anywhere in life. You, when you come out of that and you feel, "I'm not around what I en… I'm enjoying," and you feel that what you feel, whatever that is…

17:16Daniel TaylorYeah

17:16Jawad Mir... That emptiness and that,.. And I think that sometimes it's a good thing because it, being uncomfortable pushes you to figure out things that otherwise you probably won't.

17:30Daniel TaylorYeah.

17:30Jawad MirIf that makes…

17:31Daniel TaylorAbsolutely. Absolutely. And I think, I think because our jobs require us as production designers to be able to read a script and take a character and design an environment to suit that character, I feel we're so, we're so heightened in terms of trying to draw on what people are thinking or how, or how we're being perceived, or how they think we, they should be perceived. I feel like, we're incredibly astute at trying to understand, people's characters.

18:11Jawad MirYeah. No, it's true. It's so true. And it's, it's… It's funny, we're always telling stories, you know, whether you're a production designer, art director, music composer, director, writer, editor, cinematographers. We're always trying to tell stories, and in doing so, in a very strange way, we're either losing ourselves or re… rediscovering ourselves.

18:39Daniel TaylorYeah. A… A… Ab… Absolutely. Yeah. I, yeah, completely agree. You're always kind of going, you're always going through that kind of change, whether it's one thing or the other, for sure.

18:50Jawad MirAnd I, and I also find depending on what the story that you're working on…

18:54Daniel TaylorYeah

18:54Jawad Mir... Because every story is different to a certain extent, right?

18:57Daniel TaylorAh.

18:57Jawad MirAnd there's different... I said, can you hear me?

19:01Daniel TaylorYeah.

19:02Jawad MirYeah. I said every story is different and more or less, and the characters are different, and their problems are different. And sometimes when you're working on something, sometimes you know, you feel that, "Oh, I can relate to this," right?

19:16Daniel TaylorYeah. Yeah.

19:16Jawad MirBut there are other times when you don't know why you're relating to it, but you are, and that's, I think, when it becomes completely confusing or... And then you go in that, you know, thinking mode of thinking like millions of thoughts, this, why.

19:34Daniel TaylorYeah.

19:35Jawad MirAnd then, yeah, but…

19:36Daniel TaylorYeah

19:37Jawad Mir... It's, it's, it's a struggle. It's a struggle. Yeah, no, thank, thanks for sharing that, man. I wasn't expecting the conversation to go there, but I appreciate that, your honesty and

19:50Daniel TaylorYeah

19:50Jawad Mir... And everything. It's really cool for you to…

19:52Daniel TaylorI must admit, I'd only kind of... I'd only been talking to, there's a kind of guy that I speak to kind of, and have been speaking to for the last four or five years, and he kind of really helps me kind of unpack stuff like that. So it's only something that I've really kind of acknowledged that I've been suffering from in the last couple of weeks even though it's been plainly obvious to me really if I'd given it any kind of single thought that I was, I was struggling a bit with it. So, that's why it just came out 'cause it's kind of fresh in my mind, and I've recently been proc… you know, processing unpacking and kind of moving forward with it. But yeah. Yeah. I didn't mean to overshare. Sorry.

20:35Jawad MirNo. It's awesome. I'm glad you did because I think something that people... We should talk, be talking about these things more often than just talking about work, you know? You know what I mean?

20:45Daniel TaylorYeah. Yeah.

20:46Jawad MirBecause the, like, that's how you connect with people, and then that's how you…

20:49Daniel TaylorYes

20:49Jawad Mir... Connect to yourself.

20:50Daniel TaylorYes.

20:51Jawad MirYou know, talk, and feel free to at any time in the conversation to share whatever you want. I thoroughly…... Felt it was very important. But I think also in terms of your career, you know, what was the project... I know I went through your credentials. I mean, I, you obviously have done Argylle, which we're here to talk about. You did Tetris, for Apple, which I haven't seen. I always wanted to see it because of Tetris. You know, who doesn't know Tetris?

21:19Daniel TaylorYeah.

21:19Jawad MirI just never ha… haven't gotten around to it. But what would be the break that you would consider where you felt, "Oh, I..." There's no end to the break because you're always take, making a break.

21:31Daniel TaylorYeah.

21:31Jawad MirYou know, you're always, you're always trying to go for the better and bigger and to fulfill and all that. But what was that one project where you felt, "I got it. I, this is… ... What I wanna chase"?

21:42Daniel TaylorDo you know what? I don't think it was a project. I think it was more a person. I've kind of, I was kind of, you know, for want of a better word, dicking about with a career that was fun in film, for 10 years, and I was... I kind of, I knew that I was very good. I enjoyed my time when I was an art director on set. And I'd, I'd spent, I'd spent quite a bit of, quite a bit of time in, on set. And then, I worked with a lady called Suzie Davies, who did Saltburn very recently.

22:20Jawad MirOkay.

22:21Daniel TaylorBut I worked with her on Mr. Turner with Mike, for Mike Leigh, and then Peterloo…

22:26Jawad MirOkay

22:26Daniel Taylor... And loads of jobs in between. And we, she was really inspiring to work for as a production designer, and I really felt like with her more than any other designer that, you know, if we, if we knuckled down and worked hard but enjoyed ourselves, that we would be able to kind of get there. We'd be able to kind of not just be languishing in UK domestic dramas, but be able to put our foot down and kind of accelerate into serious, nuanced stories with fantastic actors and directors. So I think it was kind of joining forces with her, and then we also joined with, Charlotte Dyricks, who's the set decorator who has done Saltburn with Suzie recently. She did True Detective with me actually in Iceland. So it was kind of I found that my career found its feet when I met Suzie, and from then on kind of kicked into to actually me taking it a bit seriously.

23:31Daniel TaylorI kind of progressed through my 30s and thought, "Actually, I'm, I'm quite good at this and I'm enjoying it. And actually, if I really work hard, I'd be really interested to see how far I can go." And then, so I was very happy as a supervising art director until about six or seven years ago when a friend of mine who knew somebody at Neal Street, and they did a thing called Britannia.

23:58Daniel TaylorAnd they were looking for an art… they were looking for a production designer, and Jethro, who's my friend and location manager, got a phone and said, "Listen, I think you'd be great at it. Why don't you go and meet them?" and I hadn't really kind of thought about it as a production designer because I was really enjoying my career with Suzie and with Charlotte. I didn't really kind of, didn't really think that I could do my own thing or kind of forge my own path. So I went to meet them. They offered me the job, and then I kind of haven't looked back really. I've kind of, I did Britannia and then a lit… lovely little film with Tony Gillett called Dream Horse. From that, the director of Tetris saw Dream Horse and thought that, The interiors for some of the characters was, were really beautiful, and he asked me to do Tetris. Tetris was, produced by Matthew Vaughn, and then he asked me on to do Argylle.

24:49Daniel TaylorAnd then, and then from Argylle I went on to do True Detectives. So it's been quite a kind of each stepping stone in the last five or six years has been quite a big jump. So that's... So yeah, I would say in short, an answer to your question, it would be Susie Davies and Charlotte as opposed to a kind of a specific project.

25:13Jawad MirGot it. Moving on to Argylle, I'll come back to this conversation afterwards, but moving on to Argylle…... What was, what was the process of working on this film in terms of the vision of, Matthew's vision and bringing that to life? And you know, it has a very distinct look.

25:33Daniel TaylorYeah.

25:33Jawad MirThe film has a very distinct look.

25:36Daniel TaylorWell…

25:36Jawad MirWhat wa… what was that process like?

25:39Daniel TaylorWell, we... It was interesting because, the way that Matthew works is quite different from other directors. I mean, every director is different, but I felt like the process with Matthew was more different than with others. We knew that we weren't gonna be shooting, certainly not main cam… main unit in all of those places. So we... And I think we were just coming out of COVID and I think nobody really wanted to travel. With all of the COVID protocols set up in different countries, it was just gonna be far easier if we built everything.

26:17Jawad MirRight.

26:18Daniel TaylorOr built the main, the main elements of whatever it was we were gonna be photographing and then, you know, that extended with CG, the CG guys, in post. So it was just very much like going through the script with Matthew, presenting to him, reference of existing locations or spaces, that I thought would work for the scene. Some things I got, I got nailed on. Some things didn't, didn't work out so well and we had to go back to the drawing board and represent on set work and mood boards. And then we went back and forth about the size of, the size of the build, the construction that we were gonna do. Because there was so much, there were so many, stunts, it was important that we understood where we were gonna finish in terms of our set build and then where we were gonna, where the CG guys were gonna take over from in terms of what was gonna be built digitally.

27:16Daniel TaylorSo we had lots of physical versus digital kind of conversations with the CG guys. A… and then once we'd kind of had a better understanding from Matthew about the size of the space that he wanted for the, for the scene, then we could kind of come back with set dressing ideas and, color palettes, and then work through with the director of photography, George, about, you know, what the color of the interior needed to be, or the lighting or, and the set dressing. And once Matthew had approved everything, then we kind of set to building it. I mean, actually, that was one thing that I, one thing that I have, that I learned from working with Matthew that I will take onto every job whenever possible, you know. You can present them with a digital model, with a white card model, you know, directors, I mean, and mood boards, but actually standing in a space, in the space, marking out the set on the floor, standing bits of flatage up so they have a better understanding of the height of the space, I think, I think it's really important because, you know, the less surprises on the day, the better, I think, when it comes to presenting a finished set…

28:30Jawad MirSure

28:30Daniel Taylor... To the director. So,... And that wasn't something that I ever really did before. I kind of trusted in the process that the director would be able to understand the size of the space from just a model, a white card model or a digital one or a concept. But actually, I found like I was able to understand it a little bit more as it was being built physically. Yeah, so I think I would say that really. Some sets were, some sets were troubling. Some sets didn't kind of come off the page as quickly as others. Some we…

29:08Daniel Taylor... Squared away really simply. But there were others that were very complicated because they had, they had a requirement for large amounts of the set to be set up for stunt work, so we had to build kind of... Sometimes we had to build two or three of some set because we knew that we needed to break at certain points. I mean, we built everything. We built the bookshop, we built the train, we built the Hong Kong flat, we built the French chateau. We shipped in Italian vines from Italy and planted them…

29:37Jawad MirNice

29:38Daniel Taylor... For the French chateau. I mean, it was all just in the nor… North London in a kind of,... There's a farm, that, Marv, Matthew's company, are kind of friendly with. They've shot quite a few of their productions there. So there were, there's, you know, the Greek taverna, we built that as well. And the apartment block, the roof of it that they jump off, we built that as well. I mean, it was extraordinary how much we built from scratch. Yeah. No, it was g… I think I've... I don't think I've ever been on a production as kind of as construction heavy. I mean, we had to use three construction companies because not one would be able to kind of solve all of our, you know, would not be able to build all of the elements that we needed to get constructed. So yeah, it was very busy, that job. Very busy.

30:32Jawad MirThat's good. What would be the one set that you think was the mo… You said some were easy, some were difficult, some were challenging. If there was one particular setup that was the most challenging Whether it was logistics or space or lighting, whatever it was

30:50Daniel TaylorThe ice, the ice rink, I think probably…

30:52Jawad MirOkay

30:53Daniel Taylor... I would say. I mean, it was, it was so complicated. We had a stunt arranger, a gentleman called Brad Allan, who unfortunately died whilst we were on the, on the project. He passed away very sadly, and he was very close to Matthew.

31:14Daniel TaylorI think he was, I think he was Jackie Chan's protege. Like this guy's…

31:19Jawad MirOh

31:19Daniel Taylor... Like super cool. And what he was doing, which was, which was pretty amazing, he was, rehearsing the stunt sequences in LA with body suits on. So he was motion capturing the stunts. We were then building the sets digitally in London, inputting them into Unreal, which is the game engine…

31:50Jawad MirYeah

31:50Daniel Taylor... Taking the information from the motion capture stunt sequence, putting that into Unreal with our digital mocked up set, and then we were able to go in with VR headsets and walk round the motion capture stunt sequence being played out virtually in the environment that I designed. So this kind of…

32:12Jawad MirAh

32:12Daniel Taylor... I'd never been in an environment where, or on a project where we could... We were so kind of, leading the curve in... Well, I mean, I'm sure it's kind of moved on significantly since, but it was just mind-blowing for me that you could put on a, put on a VR headset and stand in our virtual space with the motion capture stunt sequence playing out in front of you. I mean, it was, an extraordinary kind of meshing of all of those worlds. And then I think what we did is once the sequence was approved, it was broken down or storyboarded, so we knew what shot was gonna last for how long. And then once we'd got a storyboard that everybody was able to move forward from, then we were able to build proxy elements of sets that they had to kind of dodge behind, jump over, fall against. So then each sequence basically was kind of shot individually, and then, and then obviously all stitched together and, the vis effects put over the top. So it was, it was quite complicated.

33:15Daniel TaylorIt was, there was lots of moving parts, and, there were... Yeah, there were lots of people involved, and it was, yeah, it was, it was tricky at times. I think there were... I think the sequence is fantastic. It's really remarkable.

33:32Jawad MirIt was.

33:33Daniel TaylorBut it was a bloody headache to get to that point.

33:36Jawad MirWell, it's always... You feel always good about something that you struggled to make, and then you, when you see the finished project it's, like, such an achievement, right? So…

33:44Daniel TaylorYeah

33:45Jawad Mir... But it's interesting you talked about the VR headset because... And when you were talking about, you know, in pre-production trying to figure out, the pieces and the vis… the visuals and all that.

34:00Daniel TaylorYeah.

34:00Jawad MirAnd I was thinking, I was thinking at that time about the advent of, you know, AI and how you can, how you can now... There's so many platforms where you can punch in the command and give detailed instructions and it would…

34:15Daniel TaylorYeah

34:15Jawad Mir... You know, generate something for you. And then the combination of VR, I mean, it's just amazing. At the same time, somewhat scarier where we're heading…

34:25Daniel TaylorYeah

34:25Jawad Mir... You know, in terms of the technology. Do you see…

34:28Daniel TaylorYeah

34:29Jawad Mir... AI helping people in your in… in your sector? Not necessarily in the industry. I mean, I know people use it all the time. Like, everybody uses ChatGPT.

34:39Daniel TaylorYeah.

34:39Jawad MirIf I'm cr… if I'm creating a deck, I would try to generate some images as opposed to going out and, you know, finding some random stuff and that looks more authentic…

34:50Daniel TaylorYeah

34:50Jawad Mir... More, like, branded kind of thing.

34:52Daniel TaylorYeah.

34:52Jawad MirSo do you think that's gonna happen? It's, is it gonna affect what we do as in your job, my job, or anybody else?

35:00Daniel TaylorI mean, I think absolutely, of course. I don't think there's any way of kind of trying to stop it. I fe… I feel like as everybody is in every kind of industry that is being affected by AI, you kind of have to understand how it can improve it and what tools we as the head of department need to do to try and kind of m… make it as, worthwhile and as advantageous for us as possible. I feel like I have a, I have a concept designer, concept illustrator who I work with very closely, who did, Argylle. Did Tetris, in… True Detective with me. And I have an amazing relationship with that guy, and I can send him over random bits of shit that I was thinking of. I can send him over a color palette or even if I've just kind of screen grabbed something and send it across to him, and he will, he will, because we have a shorthand, will able to decipher these lat… these kind of selection of cryptic messages and understand, oh my God, so that was what he was thinking about for that, for the colorway for that, and I'll, I'll change this frame to suit this, and I'll just give him a little heads-up about a kind of certain torch light.

36:11Daniel TaylorOn True Detective it was, it was, very much about the kind of practical lighting that I would just kind of send him through, and he would get it immediately and send me back these fantastic kind of beautiful images that I was able to kind of waft under the director's nose, and everybody would love them and we would move on. And I feel like I have such a good relationship with him and, I... The thing that I would most worry about, is losing that ability to have that kind of conversation. And it feel like it's a bit more organic, and I'm sure there's gonna be ways that, you know, in the not too, distant future, I'm gonna be able to do something very similar.

36:59Daniel TaylorBut I still, I still think that there is, I don't know, there is, there's something in a connection that you have with, or my connection with him that just generates an image, or he generates an image that's just slightly better, a little bit more organic. I don't know.

37:16Jawad MirYeah, and it makes sense.

37:17Daniel TaylorI feel…

37:17Jawad MirIt's also... Sorry, go on.

37:19Daniel TaylorNo, I think, I think that was, that was kind of it really. I kind of, I'm, I'm ex… excited to see what's around the corner in terms of, how AI will help production designers or, but I do worry for the loss of that kind of human relationship.

37:39Jawad MirYeah. And I think that the right word for that, and then I feel that during this pod… anytime I do a podcast episode, is that human connection knowingly or unknowingly becomes extremely therapeutic. Like, it just…

37:55Daniel TaylorAbsolutely

37:56Jawad Mir... It just, it just this, it just does. E… even you and I talking right now, right?

38:00Daniel TaylorYeah.

38:00Jawad MirLike, there's just something about it…

38:02Daniel TaylorYeah

38:02Jawad Mir... Even though we're talking on Zoom, obviously in person is gonna be completely different. But…

38:07Daniel TaylorYeah

38:07Jawad Mir... Just having that thing really…

38:09Daniel TaylorYeah

38:09Jawad Mir... Helps us figure out on a very small scale who the hell we are.

38:14Daniel TaylorYeah.

38:15Jawad MirSo it's important. And I, but I, you know what I fear? I don't fear about our generation. I fear that, I don't even fear about the kids who grew up, who were born in early 2000s. I'm talking about people who have been born in the last 10, 15 years, like now, are now teenagers, and…

38:33Daniel TaylorYeah

38:33Jawad Mir... That's what they're being born into. And then this, what we are talking about, is normal for us. The technology part would be normal for them because that's…

38:44Daniel TaylorYeah

38:44Jawad Mir... What they just grew up in. I think that's…

38:47Daniel TaylorYeah

38:47Jawad Mir... Where the future is kind of glee… you know, it's kinda like bleak in a way.

38:52Daniel TaylorYeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're right.

38:57Jawad MirOne of the things I wanted to ask you, we're talking about this earlier, I'm gonna go back about trying to figure out the p… the purpose talk that we're having, right? Since we started that, I just had this thought in my head when we were talking about it, but I wanted to go to Argylle, is that m… I don't know if you've ever seen this speech by Matthew McConaughey. I don't... It was a beautiful speech at the Academy Awards. He won the Oscar. This was…

39:24Daniel TaylorYeah

39:24Jawad Mir... Where he talks about…

39:26Daniel TaylorOscar's the future thing.

39:27Jawad MirYeah, where he talks about, "I'm always aiming to be someone I will be in 10 years, and when I get there," and then it's like an ongoing process because I'm never gonna be someone that I want to be. It's just like a…

39:37Daniel TaylorYeah

39:37Jawad Mir... Constant journey.

39:39Daniel TaylorYeah.

39:39Jawad MirAnd I feel, and I sometimes feel, and I don't know, I could be dead wrong about this, is that I feel that a lot of us start feeling the way we feel because we feel that we've always wanted to be someone, and when we get to that point, whether it's in terms of financing, whether it's terms of careers, whether it's terms of whatever, you just re…

40:03Daniel TaylorYeah

40:03Jawad Mir... It's kinda like buying an, it's kinda like buying an iPhone, you know? And then a week later we're like, "Okay, well, what was the point of that?" Like, that's, that's all... You know, it felt good for like…

40:12Daniel TaylorYeah

40:12Jawad Mir... Two weeks, and that's it.

40:13Daniel TaylorYeah.

40:14Jawad MirSo I wonder if that's how it happens to all of us, that we feel that we're gonna get to a certain point, we're gonna be happy, but when we get there, we're happy for a limited amount of time, and then…

40:24Daniel TaylorYeah

40:25Jawad Mir... We want something else.

40:29Daniel TaylorI think without a doubt that is completely the case. Yeah. I mean, I think whether it is something as kind of materialistic as an iPhone or a kind of a level in a career, you know, I've, you know, the amount of, amount of times I've been kind of very jealously looking at another production designer on another bigger film and, or somebody's doing a really interesting project that I read the script for and I'm like, "Fuck, I would have loved to been on that. Absolutely loved to have been on that." And, but I, and I don't mean to sound big-headed, but coming off the back of Argylle, which was 150 million, and having just done True Detective, which obviously, you know, dressing sets…

41:17Jawad MirSure

41:17Daniel Taylor... For Jodie Foster, you're like, "I just need to just take a little moment and take stock of kind of where I've got to and en… and enjoy this kind of, enjoy the journey, enjoy this process." And it, and actually, you know what? If I only ever do, if I, if it's only ever kind of do projects that aren't as successful as True Detective or aren't as fun as Argylle, then that's all okay too. And I think, I think we are, I feel like we are programmed to kind of, do a, kind of get up the ladder as quick as possible, because, I dunno. I mean, I think certainly when you get into this kind of the top tier of film and television, I think there is, I think we're all kind of pre-programmed to do as bigger projects or, to try and do as critically acclaimed shows as possible. They're, you're striving for some kind of, accolade.

42:18Daniel TaylorI mean, it is interesting, you know, I kind of, I spent a w… a while wondering whether when you get into doing shows of this size, how motivated you are, about award season. And it was never really something that I'd given very much kind of thought to, just because I suppose I was never working in shows or on the projects that would potentially be up for awards. But ever since we did Mr. Turner with Susie, and there was, you kind of got, we got acknowledged, we got nominated for an Oscar for that, There's always been some part of whatever job I take or whatever project I'm kind of reading, and I'm wondering about whether it is gonna be, whether it would be something that would be considered for an award. And I'm just battling because I'm not sure whether that is... That's not the reason why I got into film, but I wonder whether I'm so kind of caught up by this kind of feverish excitement to be on the bigger job or pa… I'm kind of embroiled into that illusion that we wanna be on the bigger project, a better project, for more money with bigger actors, that I feel like it's almost like a byproduct.

43:38Daniel TaylorAnd, I've, I've been really kind of struggling with trying to remember why I like Trainspotting so much when I first did it, you know? And that wasn't definitely not…

43:51Jawad MirYeah

43:51Daniel Taylor... Never thought of…

43:52Jawad MirYeah

43:52Daniel Taylor... And the idea of being, of being up for a BAFTA or an Oscar. So yeah, I definitely do think there is, you're always, you're always looking over your shoulder to see what other people are doing when you get to a kind of this level of filmmaking, I think. Yeah.

44:12Jawad MirAnd I, and I... It's funny you mention that, and I'll tell you a story. So l… before I tell you a story, one of the things that Christopher Nolan is known for that he doesn't have a smartphone, right? He o… he has a burner phone.

44:26Daniel TaylorYeah. I heard that, yeah.

44:26Jawad MirRight? And which is about focus, but I'll tell you something, and I talk to this, to people that I know, especially my wife, about when I started production 23 years ago, right? Like, my whole thing, 24 years ago. One of my whole thing is, like, director, like, this is what I wanna do, and I am a director by, you know, by the…

44:48Daniel TaylorYeah

44:49Jawad Mir... Blessings of w… e… everything around me and everything, and I'm working on films. But getting to that point that I am right now, there was a part o… and it's a very small example, but I think I think about this all the time, is that around 2000 and, I would like to say, 9, I think. Yeah, late 2009. I was trying to figure out what to do with the production. We were… I was doing s… you know, corporate jobs and here and there for other people. I wanted to start my own business. So I started two companies. One was mainly designed to produce branding videos for companies, right?

45:28Daniel TaylorRight.

45:28Jawad MirAnd, one was more so doing high-end wedding cinematography around the world. And…

45:38Daniel TaylorOkay, wow

45:39Jawad Mir... And then between 2009 and 2013, the only thing that I was focused on was the work. I did not interact with the competition. I did not look what anybody else was doing. I was just so involved.

45:57Daniel TaylorYeah.

45:57Jawad MirAnd I was doing great, like in terms of, you know, financially business was great. In terms of me enjoying it, me being in the moment and everything, it was fabulous. And then I got involved in a trade show, just trying to, like, take the business to a next level.

46:12Daniel TaylorYeah.

46:13Jawad MirAnd my entire thinking turned upside down. Then I start looking at everybody else.

46:19Daniel TaylorYeah.

46:19Jawad MirAnd I think that's, that's the key, what you said too. It's like you just need to be so focused…

46:25Daniel TaylorYeah

46:25Jawad Mir... On your own thing and forget about the external noise, and it's really hard now because everything is right in front of us, right?

46:32Daniel TaylorYeah. A… yeah, and I think, you know, it's, everything seems to be so geared up to the, this awards season that I think, I think listening, like, turning down the noise, being able to just do it for you or what you think it should be, is incredibly difficult. Yeah.

46:53Jawad MirYeah, it's…

46:53Daniel TaylorI'm not quite sure what the solution is. I don't know whether, I don't know whether I'd ever find a kind of a happy medium where I'm, I'm, I'm completely settled in everything that I'm doing when I'm, when I'm able to look at what everybody else is doing.

47:10Jawad MirYeah

47:10Daniel Taylor... Yeah, I think it's, I think it is complex.

47:12Jawad MirIt's challenging.

47:12Daniel TaylorYeah, really challenging.

47:14Jawad MirYeah.

47:14Daniel TaylorYeah. But I think that's a struggle with everybody, isn't it? I mean, I think…

47:17Jawad MirIt is. It is

47:17Daniel Taylor... It feels like, yeah. I know that, yeah, I know, I know…

47:23Jawad MirWell, it…

47:23Daniel Taylor... A few people that are kind of going through it at the moment, kind of very interested in what other people are saying or doing, and it's,.. And I, and I don't, I believe you lose that focus, that targeted approach to deliver what you s… what you, only you do, that only you want to do.

47:40Jawad MirI think the old saying is so accurate, the grass is always greener on the other side, right? And when you, when you start looking at around you instead of who you should be really looking at is your inner self…

47:52Daniel TaylorYeah

47:52Jawad Mir... And I think that's when you lose the plot. I mean, like, come on, like, you know, we work, we work on films and stories which are literally about these kind of stories, is that how people who are, who don't discover... Like, you always find out a character discovering who they are.

48:08Daniel TaylorYeah.

48:08Jawad MirRight? And the, like, you know, you film... I'm just kinda naming some films, like Rain Man, A Few Good Men, you know, I don't know, Schindler's List, Forrest Gump. It's like trying…

48:17Daniel TaylorYeah

48:17Jawad Mir... To figure out yourself as opposed to the surroundings.

48:21Daniel TaylorYeah.

48:23Jawad MirYeah. That's, that's interesting.

48:27Daniel TaylorYeah

48:27Jawad Mir... What's next for you?

48:29Daniel TaylorWhat's next for me? Well, there's a couple of, to be really honest, as I kind of alluded to at the v… the very first kind of question that you asked, I'm not doing a lot, to be really honest. There's, there's, there's quite a few projects that have come by, and whether their script wasn't kind of quite right or they were gonna be shot in the up, the other side of the world, or not quite enough money for their level of ambition. I haven't just, I just haven't found the right one yet, and I feel like I want to... Feel like now that I've got to a position where I feel really happy at in terms of…... Type of production that I'm doing, I want to be just a little bit more pickier. However, saying all of that, I need to work. I haven't worked since April. I owe money to the tax man.

49:29Daniel TaylorI'm getting married this year. That requires a bit of cash. Like, I need t… I need to do something. There's a couple of commercials on the, on the horizon that I'm chasing. One would be really lovely to do. There's a few scripts, there, yeah. There's, there's, there's a few things, but nothing set in stone yet.

49:48Jawad MirOkay. What's one thing... Again, this is not trying to have, draw comparisons or anything like that, but if... Is there s… a dream project in your head, even if it's something that will never get fulfilled, that you would like to do?

50:07Daniel TaylorYou know, I…

50:15Jawad MirWhether it's working with a director, whether it's working…

50:18Daniel TaylorYeah

50:18Jawad Mir... In a particular country or...

50:20Daniel TaylorMy girlfriend, fiance is working for Guillermo del Toro, and a production designer called Tamara, I think you pronounce her surname Deverell, I think.

50:35Jawad MirOkay.

50:35Daniel TaylorAnd they're doing p… they're doing Frankenstein at the moment. He did Nightmare Alley, which just blew me away in terms of its production design. I mean, I would say designing Frankenstein for Guillermo del Toro is probably one of the ones that are, would be up there, I think. Certainly kind of some of the conversations that I've been earwigging to that my girlfriend's having with the art department sound exciting. Really. I can't wait for that movie. And you know what? Like, I honestly believe that, having the opportunity to design, recreate Alaska in Iceland for Issa, and design interiors that Jodie Foster's gonna be inhabiting, I mean, that's, that's, that's pretty up there really. I think, I think, I was, I was very fortunate to be allowed onto doing True Detective.

51:37Daniel TaylorAnd actually, you know what? Argylle was a, it was a pretty outstanding opportunity as well. You know, Sam Jackson, Bryce Dallas Howard, Bryan Cranston, Matthew Vaughn. I mean, it's a stellar kinda cast and crew. So, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of, I feel like I'm getting, I'm, I'm, I'm ach… I'm achieving what I w… I would, I would have, I would have only ever dreamed to have got to a level, you know? Do you see what I'm... I feel like I'm kind of…

52:10Jawad MirYeah. I get it

52:11Daniel Taylor... I feel like I'm, I feel like I'm there, but, Guillermo del Toro…

52:15Jawad MirBut you're not there

52:15Daniel Taylor... Yeah. G… yeah. But Guillermo del Toro, that would be, that would be dreamy I think. Or any, you know, j… j… just Gi… Denis Villeneuve. Wow, I mean, that guy's exceptional too. I mean, that would be extraordinary to be on a project with him. Him or Guillermo. I mean, I'd be happy one or the other really.

52:39Jawad MirYeah. A… and you said your fiance, or girlfriend is working on that as a production designer?

52:45Daniel TaylorNo, she's as an art director.

52:47Jawad MirArt director.

52:47Daniel TaylorSo Tamara Deverell or Dev… Deverell, I think, is the production designer. She did Nightmare Alley with him. I think she was a… I think she also did Shape of Water, but I'm not, I'm not 100% certain about that. But

52:58Jawad MirOkay

52:58Daniel Taylor... I, was, I was blown away when I looked, I watched her work on, Nightmare Alley with Guillermo. That was, I think, f… that f… that film was stunning. Absolutely stunning.

53:09Jawad MirI gotta check that out. I haven't seen that yet.

53:12Daniel TaylorYeah. It's beautiful. It's, it is really stunning.

53:16Jawad MirGreat. Awesome. Well, exciting. I really hope that, you know, things take a turn, and I think it's part of our journey to discover who the heck we are when we go through these kinda difficult times.

53:30Daniel TaylorI think you're right

53:31Jawad Mir... And, you know, it, for sure you'll come on top. I mean, I'll give you, leave you with one story. I don't know if you know this guy named Gary Vee. You probably have heard of him.

53:40Daniel TaylorYeah.

53:41Jawad MirOkay. He said something... So hi… his dream always... Hi… to kinda sum it up, it's a great story. He, when he migrated to Canada, sorry, not Canada, US, I think he was from Ukraine. And they were having…

53:56Daniel TaylorOkay

53:56Jawad Mir... Really har… really hard times. Like, this was in the '80s, and they could barely, you know, survive on three meals. And he was a really big fan of New York Jets, the football team.

54:10Daniel TaylorYeah.

54:10Jawad MirAnd, so he wanted to buy a jersey but didn't have the money, so his mom, like, knitted him a jersey. Like a sweater. And he kept that jersey to this day, and he said, "If I want, I can buy New York Jets tomorrow."

54:28Daniel TaylorYeah.

54:29Jawad Mir"But I don't want to do that, because if I've done that, then the purpose of what I have is fulfilled."

54:37Daniel TaylorYeah. Yeah.

54:37Jawad MirSo I can probably do that way down the road when I feel…

54:41Daniel TaylorYeah.

54:41Jawad MirSo I think that's the key, of wanting what you want, but sometimes not getting what you want all the time sometimes leaves you empty, and…

54:50Daniel TaylorYeah. Yeah. I think…

54:51Jawad Mir... Having always…

54:51Daniel TaylorYeah. It's a great story. And r… really kind of, yeah, anecdotally kind of what we've been talking about. You know, you kind of be careful kind of not what you wish for really, but just make sure that you don't kind of, I don't know, enjoy the journey, enjoy the process

55:08Jawad MirPretty much

55:08Daniel Taylor... Rather than, rather than, yeah.

55:12Jawad MirYeah.

55:12Daniel TaylorYeah.

55:12Jawad MirYeah. Th… this has been one of the most awesome conversations I've had, Daniel. Thank you so much for being…

55:19Daniel TaylorThank you

55:19Jawad Mir... So open about it

55:21Daniel TaylorI've, I've loved it. I've really loved kind of ch… chatting. It's been good. Let me know if there's anything that you wanna go, kinda go over again or n… nor need kind of clarification, and I'd be more than happy to jump back on a call with you.

55:36Jawad MirYeah.

55:36Daniel TaylorIt's been, it's been really good. What's, what's your process?

55:38Jawad MirYeah, no…

55:39Daniel TaylorHow are you gonna, you gonna edit it? Are you then gonna... How does it work or?

55:43Jawad MirSo honestly, what we do is we try not to edit anything unless there is, like, you know, like if there was, like, an audio blip or you had to take a break or something.

55:54Daniel TaylorYeah.

55:54Jawad MirBut we just tr… I... Like, literally, we just put it out there from beginning to end.

55:59Daniel TaylorYeah.

56:00Jawad MirAnd then let... And it goes on Spotify, it goes on Apple, it goes on YouTube. And…

56:05Daniel TaylorYeah, I saw all of the link, yeah

56:07Jawad Mir... And then, and then, yeah, and let people just discover it and push it and promote it as much as we can on our end. And, you know, it's been, it's been good so far because a lot of people... It's just, it's just, it's just, again, it's therapeutic. People don't realize it, but we all love making that connection. I think especially after COVID.

56:27Daniel TaylorYeah.

56:27Jawad MirThings have really messed up people to a level that it requires a lot of healing. Everyone, all of us. And

56:34Daniel TaylorI couldn't agree more. I think we, I think the trauma that we've all gone through is kind of... I don't really think that we fully kind of understand or appreciate kind of how much repair we need to do. And the only way that we can is by having these interactions, by kind of, you know, this therapy, I think.

56:52Jawad MirYeah.

56:52Daniel TaylorAnd that is, you know, connecting with people for sure. I don't think I've spoken so freely with anybody on a podcast before. Certainly not about my kind of slightly questionable mental state at the moment, but

57:05Jawad MirI think a lot of people can relate to it.

57:09Daniel TaylorYeah. Yeah.

57:10Jawad MirBut I would love to talk to you again, maybe about Tetris, maybe about True Detective, maybe both. Let's, let's do that again. Let's

57:16Daniel TaylorYeah, absolutely

57:17Jawad Mir... I gotta see Tetris.

57:18Daniel TaylorIt's been a pleasure. It really has, sincerely. So, yeah, if you want to catch up about True Detective or Tetris, I'm, I'm, I'd be more than happy to just jump on another call with you, for sure.

57:29Jawad MirPerfect. Thank you so much, man. I appreciate your time, Dan.

57:33Daniel TaylorYou too. Take care. Have a great day. See you soon.

57:35Jawad MirYou too.

57:35Daniel TaylorAll the best.

57:35Jawad MirBye-bye. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for watching and listening. Don't forget to subscribe, like, share and comment, and do come back for another episode. Until then, have a great day.