'Masters of the Air', Consultant, Taigh Ramey

0:08Taigh RameyHello.

0:10Jawad MirHow are you?

0:11Taigh RameyI'm good, thanks. How are you doing?

0:13Jawad MirI'm doing great. How do I pronounce your name?

0:15Taigh RameyTy.

0:15Jawad MirTy.

0:16Taigh RameyJust like T-Y.

0:18Jawad MirI thought so. I just didn't wanna try.

0:21Taigh RameyWell, it's easy to butcher.

0:23Jawad MirI like your setup. I was hoping to see something like that.

0:26Taigh RameyOh, good.

0:28Jawad MirGood. How

0:29Taigh RameyLike reading your book, Oppenheimer and Avatar. Good stuff.

0:33Jawad MirYeah. My world versus your world, right? So…... It's good. You're with in California?

0:40Taigh RameyYeah.

0:41Jawad MirWhere again?

0:42Taigh RameySo Stockton, California. It's kinda Northern California, east of San Francisco, south of Sacramento.

0:48Jawad MirOkay. I'll, I'll be sure to, come and visit there. I go to, California quite often, and sometimes San Francisco, sometimes San Jose. So if I'm there, I'll probably pop in, just to check out your facility. Looks f… fantastic in pictures. I know obviously the background as well.

1:06Taigh RameyYeah. You're welcome to come up.

1:08Jawad MirAwesome.

1:09Taigh RameyI'll let you borrow a cart and spin you around.

1:11Jawad MirThat's awesome. Well, good to have you. Thank you so much for your, work in, on Masters of the Air. I'm not sure if you had a chance to see the most recent one, episode that we did with the VFX supervisor, Stephen Rosenbaum. Did you get a ch… chance to see that at all or hear it?

1:30Taigh RameyIt... Yeah, and we're, we're still kinda laughing about that. That was really good. Stephen's a great guy. He helped me out a lot too.

1:38Jawad MirYeah, I mean, that's how I learned about you, because he mentioned it in the podcast that how, you know, his little conversation with you, about the engines and, not k… getting fire and the front of the plane not getting fire and all that. So I thought maybe I should talk to you and get just some insight about your involvement. So it's really good to have you, man.

1:57Taigh RameyYeah. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

1:59Jawad MirGreat. So just tell me about your background, before we even get onto Masters of the Air. How did you get involved in what you do now, having a place where you fly B-17s and your love for the aircraft or planes in general?

2:16Taigh RameyIt all started with my parents. My mom, was an Army nurse in World War II in the Pacific.

2:21Jawad MirOkay.

2:21Taigh RameyAnd my dad was also in the Pacific. He was a B-29 navigator. So I've always had an interest in World War II stuff and, you know, built model airplanes, World War II airplanes as a kid with my dad. He w… he would build them, and we had a lot of fun together. And I started collecting things. I remember as a kid going to a flea market, and there was a, an instrument out of a P-47, I bought at a flea market and brought it home and studied it and analyzed it. My dad found a Norden Bombsight disassembled at some garage sale and gave it to me, and I put the thing back together. So, yeah, I started out as a kinda World War II geek from an early age, I suppose. And then I was, like, you know, struggling a little bit in high school, and my dad said that if I could get a B grade point average that he'd give me flying lessons. And so that was the best deal I've ever made.... And started, flying. My dad actually started flying too. He had soloed back in World War II but hadn't really flown an aircraft since.

3:23Taigh RameySo he and I started flying together, and that was a lot of fun. And then yeah, just kept collecting things. And that bombsight that he gave me, I dis… or I reassembled, put it in, or gave it to the Pima Air Museum. It's in the nose of their B-29 on display, and just been, collecting stuff ever since. My dad and I collected a lot of things and, yeah, it was a lot of fun. So that's ki… pretty much how it started. Then went to San Jose State, got a degree in, aeronautics and became a flight instructor and started flying that way, or flying and building up hours. And at one point I was at that crossroads, either go and do, the, airline career or, start a business based on the Twin Beech. My dad got me a Christmas gift one year, was a gun turret in a, in a crate, new old stock turret, and it was for a, it said, "Turret training, Type A-8 for model AT-11 aircraft." And I said, "Dad, what's an AT-11?" He says, "Oh, we buzzed the Japanese on the island of Rhoda in one of those," and he showed me a picture. And so I had to find a airplane to go with my gun turret, and that's what started the Twin Beech, kinda thing.

4:26Taigh RameyAnd then at San Jose State they had a Twin Beech, that was an AT-11 at one time. I ended up buying that for $250 and, started the Twin Beech thing. And so that crossroads, I either continue with the Twin Beech thing or, go off and, do the airline career. So I chose the vow of poverty in aviation and been do… working on Twin Beeches ever since, and old World War II airplanes too.

4:52Jawad MirWow, that's awesome. What was the fir… the plane that your dad, first flew you in when you know, when he asked you to get a B, grade? And… ... What, which plane was it?

5:03Taigh RameyCessna 172. So at Stanford Flying Club, he and I, went and joined Stanford Flying Club and, started flying Cessna 172s, where we got our private license with him.

5:13Jawad MirOkay. And are you originally from California?

5:16Taigh RameyYeah. Born in, Anaheim, and…

5:20Jawad MirOkay

5:20Taigh Ramey... Grew up in the Bay Area, so Los Altos Hills, grew up there. And then, when,.. You know, it was tough to find a hangar in the Bay Area. It's real expensive and long waits, so…

5:30Jawad MirYeah

5:31Taigh Ramey... Finding a hangar out here in Stockton, and we'd commute out here a bunch. And then, after my parents passed away, then, I ended up moving out here, live in Manteca and have a shop here at Stockton and next door. And then this is what we call the museum hangar, where we've got the World War II stuff on display. So…

5:46Jawad MirAnd how long have you had the m… Sorry, go on, please. Go on.

5:49Taigh RameySo our business next door is vintage aircraft where we fix up Beech 18s and do warbird stuff, and, just have a shop there. And my daughter is our office manager, and we have, Ricky's our, one of our techs, he's been with us for over 20 years, so it's a real small, kinda family business sort of thing.

6:06Jawad MirOh, that's sweet. That's awesome. That's really cool. And the museum, when did it start?

6:14Taigh RameyYou know, it goes way back from the collecting stuff, so I think it's been going for, I think, about 18 years now. And yeah, the collection's kinda been growing steadily over time, and the collection's kind of mostly been concentrating on, the air and ground crew, so what they have. And e… eventually we started doing Bomber Camp thing, where we put all of it to work and put it to use. And, yeah, appreciate the shout-out that Stephen gave o… on that…... About Bomber Camp. But yeah, it's a lot of fun. So it's, it's fun to... I like to bring the equipment to life, whether it's a bomb sight, a Norden bombsight, or the gun turrets and things, and make 'em work so, people can, see, hear, and smell and feel what it's like, you know, with this, with this equipment. I mean, that's what's fun about Bomber Camp. We bring it all together with a flying B-17, so yeah, it's a lot of fun.

7:10Jawad MirThat's awesome. I bet.

7:11Taigh RameyLove showing people, yeah, the change in technology through World War II, like, you know, like what you see in Masters of the Air with simple ring and bead, you know, iron sights, and then the gunner has to do a collection and things. And, then at the end of the war, we had computer-controlled, turrets that would compensate for lead, and acceleration, and temperature, and out… pressure altitude, and even radar-guided stuff. It's amazing, just the technological advancements through that, the four short years of World War II.

7:43Jawad MirThat's great. That's super cool. I mean, I... It's... When I was a kid, before I decided that I wanted to make films for a living, I... My first... I had two pass… loves. The first was pilot. I wanted to be a pilot. You know, as a kid, every boy, like, you know, wants to fly a plane with those toys and all that. And then I wanted to be an astronomer. But I still remember, like, b… having that pilot obsession and just being able to fly a plane was... I still remember the feeling. So it's... I can totally imagine what you do, and your family does, and your family has been doing, which is incredible. It's super awesome.

8:19Taigh RameyYeah, I still remember as a kid when we would drive up San Francisco Airport to pick somebody up or whatever, we'd, we'd park at the end of the runway, and I still remember there was a big, giant TWA L-1011 that's taxiing by, and I'm looking up, you know, just, you know, holding on a chain link fence looking up there, and the co-pilot, you know, looks down and waves at me. It's like, oh, man, that was the coolest thing.

8:38Jawad MirAh.

8:38Taigh RameyAnd, if I'm ever taxiing around an airplane and see a kid there, I always wave to, you know, return the favor. But that, you know, re… really, had an impact. It was pretty good.

8:47Jawad MirIt's amazing how those little things have a big impact, right? Like, those little moments in your life…

8:52Taigh RameyYeah

8:52Jawad Mir... Can just completely change the compass of where you wanna go in life and where you want to head. That's awesome. You got involved into, before Masters of the Air, you've done some consulting work for films in general, right? If I'm not mistaken.

9:07Taigh RameyYeah, we've done a few things. Real small stuff. Nothing special. We've done a few TV things, series-type stuff, and, one, movie, with Ni… Nicolas Cage, USS Indianapolis: Men of Courage.

9:22Jawad MirOkay

9:22Taigh Ramey... Flying scenes. We got our PV-2 flying, our museum's PV-2 flying for that, and that was a lot of fun. But I mean, it's just a drop in the bucket. I mean, nothing compares to Masters and the scope and magnitude. And, you know, I'm not a movie guy. I'm, I'm, I'm an airplane guy, and so yeah, it was, you know, it was pretty incredible, that's for sure. A real honor. Very thankful for the, for the, opportunity.

9:48Jawad MirHow did that... Like, do you remember how that came about? Like, who approached you or when, where you approached? If you can tell me that story, from beginning to end, how that unfolded, that'd be super.

10:01Taigh RameyYeah. You know, years back when, it's, when I first heard about this, I wrote in emails to every email address I could come up with saying, you know, "Pick me, pick me," but there was prob… probably a 10,000 other folks doing the same thing, so nothing came of that. But I think it's through Bomber Camp. So Michael Foley, who's, one of the leading 100th Bomb Group historians, I think he suggested me because of Bomber Camp to try and train, the actors, and Stephen Rosenbaum also, says that he put in a good pitch for me as well. So, I got an email from Michael Foley asking if I'd be interested, and I said, "Sure, absolutely." And so then I got a, got a, conference call, with, Dale Dye was there and a lot of the, a lot of the g… guys in there asking questions and things and they said, "Well, yeah, sounds like we'll give you a, give you a shot." So I originally, I was to go out for a two-week stint to,.. Well, initially they were actually talking about maybe having the actors come to us, do a Bomber Camp kinda thing, and I explained to them that, you know, Bomber Camp is not a, you know, we don't have a B-17 here.

11:06Taigh RameyIt's, it's, we use, we were using Collins airplanes, and now we're using Erickson's airplane, when they were in the area 'cause we just can't afford to bring 'em in from, you know, across states and stuff.

11:17Jawad MirSure.

11:17Taigh RameySo that wasn't gonna work out, and so they decided to bring me out there. So I was, went out for a two-week stint, to start teaching the actors, and we did. We kinda set things up. Dave Littleton has a cockpit that he made in his garage over 20-plus years with all real parts, and that was sitting on the floor, so we used that mostly for our flight training. And then I started working with the actors. And, it was interesting 'cause I thought that, you know, the kids, you know, would've had, like, flight simulator experience or some kind of, you know, gaming thing… They'd have some kind of, basic background maybe in flying, but not a single one of them did. And, so I had to sit them down in a chair and have them pretend that they're holding a control yoke, and then teach them how the controls work in the airplane. When you move this, the ailerons, and that's how you bank. And how to use your feet in coordination with, your hands because, you know, these tailwheel airplanes are heavy. With your feet, you're mostly flying with your feet. And how to, you know, just do all the basics. And then once we did that, I got him in the cockpit and started going, you know, teaching him more.

12:21Taigh RameyLike, you know, okay, here are the throttles. Here are the propeller controls, what that kind of stuff does in as straightforward terms as possible, without overloading him too much. And, a… and they did really well. Dave's cockpit was great to, wait for that. And then about the two weeks, was just about up. And so I was, calling folks saying, "Hey, I'm, you know, getting ready to go. I'm heading back." You know, 'cause I had reservations going back. And they said, "Oh, no. They decided you're staying." I was like "Nobody asked me." It's... And that w… Well, I… I'm saying, say, "Yeah, you're gonna stay for the filming." I said, "Oh, okay." So maybe we should talk about that a little bit 'cause I'd left the shop, you know, and Sydney and Rick are taking care of things. And now I wanna be... You know, they want me for filming, which was I think at the time six months. Said, "That's, yeah, that's gonna be a, you know, a chore, but, I'd like to." And so we worked it out. And so I stayed for filming. And thankfully Ricky and Sydney took care of the shop while I was gone.

13:21Taigh RameyAnd I ended up being there for nine months of filming. But, so yeah, it work… worked out really well. We,.. The job I had initially was just training actors, but I had people from all different departments coming and asking me questions, and…

13:35Taigh Ramey... What about this and that. And it was really fun. I almost think that, you know, doing the, teaching the actors was, ended up being, you know, a smaller portion of all the different things I was, I was doing working with, you know, the different, all the different departments on lots of different subjects. But it was a lot of fun 'cause they initially want someone to do the pilot training, and they said, "Well, we need somebody to teach the bombardiers, and the navigators, and gunners, and radio operators." Said, "Well, I can do all of that stuff if you want." And, so I ended up doing all of that. Sitting down with, Crosby, you know, teaching navigation 'cause my dad was a navigator, so I had all of his gear. And I brought all…

14:12Jawad MirRight

14:12Taigh Ramey... A lot of that out and set it out to teach them how to, you know, how to use the things. Megan in graphics made me a bunch of, charts, you know, the World War II charts that they were gonna use. And so we ended up plotting all the routes, that, they took on each of the missions. And then using that, you know, i… in the navigation part. Let's say, you know, at a certain scene he's gonna be at a certain point, so we'll have the nav logs filled out to a certain point, and he'll be, have lines on the chart to a certain place and all that. So and then same with the radio operator, setting him up with their log sheets. And bombardiers, you know, teaching them how to use the Norden, and look like you're using the Norden, all that stuff. And the kids did great. They were so sharp. It was, it was really neat. E… especially, Austin and Callum. They did a, an amazing job. You know, they really wanted to learn. And, yeah, it was, it was really fun working with them.

15:12Jawad MirThat's cool. You know, it's one thing that you have a museum, that you're running that and all that, which is great. It's another thing to work on a film, which is great too, but teaching is an art and a skill, and it requires a lot of patience as well. Was that somewhat challenging to you at all? Or was that somewhat of a very natural fit in your, you know, as to who you are, to be able to teach these kids who have nothing to, don't know anything about the planes or how the aviation works? Was that, how was that experience like?

15:46Taigh RameyYeah, you know, I guess it relied a lot on, my experience as a flight instructor 'cause as a flight instructor a lot of times…

15:52Jawad MirOkay

15:52Taigh Ramey... I had one guy that just was driving down the freeway, by San Francisco Airport, saw a 747, and decided right then and there he wanted to be a pilot. Turns around, drives out to the airport, and walks in the door, you know? So somebody who, that's an extreme, who's never thought about flying before and then walks in the door like, "Yeah, teach me to fly." So yeah, you have to have a lot of patience for that kind of thing. Then there's the other type of student that comes in that has lifelong passion, always wanted to learn, and they're a little bit easier. But yeah, of course some students and some actors are more challenging than others. Yeah. But some of them, they had that thirst for knowledge, and they act… actually did, you know, some, you know, studying outside of class. And I had a bunch of study materials posted online, gave them links to that stuff so that they can learn about the bombardier, navigation, all that kind of stuff. And I think a lot of them really paid attention to that and studied. Some others didn't so much. So yeah, it was a challenge. Everybody's different in learning, but you have to be patient and, talk them through that. And then there's changes too when the director comes out and they're looking at what we're doing, kind of preparing for a scene, and then they wanna change things around.

16:55Taigh RameyAnd so it's, yeah, it's, it's,.. You know, again, it was nice. The kids were young and enthusiastic and even, you know, the, you know, some of the actors or the, you know, the guys in the background too. Again, I apologize. I'm not a name…

17:11Jawad MirExtra extras

17:12Taigh Ramey... That's it. So yeah, a lot of those guys were very interested and excited as well, so it was, it was really neat to work with them. But, you know, I get some of the craziest questions and it was really fun to answer for them and help them out. And some of them, you know, wasn't movie-related. They just, like, were interested in what they were doing and wanted to learn more. And, yeah, I really liked that a lot too. And doing it here, when we have kids come through, or we go to an airshow and have a, you know, a bunch of kids, come through. We put them in the airplane up in the, you know, in the cockpit and let them play and, keep hoping that, you know, that we'll spark an interest in the kids. And we've got a bunch of them over the years. Several kids we actually had in our shop, who started out sweeping the floor and… And helping out that way, and then volunteering on the museum's airplane, and we get them flying. And w… we have two of them there. One's a P-8 Poseidon, patrol bomber pilot, and another one just got signed up with, Southwest Airlines. So a lot, you know, that's the best part really is teaching these kids and seeing what they end up doing.

18:13Taigh RameyAnd like with Masters, it gives them a healthy respect for what, you know, what these guys did in World War II, which is pretty special.

18:22Jawad MirYeah. What was... This is like a two-part question, and you can answer in whichever order you like. What was the most... I… is there a question that you remember from anybody, and you don't have to name names, that was like, "Wow, I don't know the answer to this," or, "I should... I don't know this an… I don't know the answer of this well enough," if there was something like that? If not, that's okay. Number two, what did you learn in the world of film that you had no idea, transpired behind the cameras and behind the scenes?

18:54Taigh RameyYeah. I remember one guy saying is, you know, as soon as you're involved in a production like this, you're never gonna look at a movie the same way. And it's true, you know, I'm looking at a shot and just thinking of all the people that are around behind and all the stuff that's going on and lighting and everything. So yeah, that definitely had an effect. But yeah, a lot of questions came up. You know, I had, a knowledge and been studying this since I was a kid. But so much stuff came up on set. And yeah, I got questions, a lot of questions that I didn't have an answer to. But, you know, I also have a, you know, a good library. I had all my files, digital files were with me, so I could go and look and find out. So I was able to, you know, answer the questions to the best of my ability. But sometimes, like Jessica, she's one of the main researchers. Sh… a sharp kid with a brain that just wouldn't quit. I mean, she could pull facts out like, you know, amazing stuff. But she had questions, and so we spent a lot of time together trying to work out stuff like, radio procedures.

19:52Jawad MirYeah.

19:52Taigh RameySo in the... You know, I ended up going... O… one of the problems was, during COVID, a lot of the big archives were all shut down. And so they had information coming from people in the States, but, you know, the… their mission reports were five or six generations old. Sometimes the, you know, the pictures were just horrible or you couldn't read some of the text. And, then, the National Archives in the UK opened up, and I actually went there the first weekend. It… I'd spend weekends there, pulling up stuff, and they had the original files for all of these things. And that's one of the things I learned too. I had no idea.

20:26Jawad MirWow.

20:27Taigh RameyThe RAF built the airfields, and then they had a ceremony, turned them over to the Army Air Forces, but they kept a contingent there, to help in air traffic control and administration and all sorts of things. And these guys made reports and sent those reports in, and these were the reports I was looking at. So there is the original, you know, printout off the Teletype machine, of the mission order. A… and things I learned, like, the mission order would come in at, I don't know, 1:00, 2:00 in the morning, for engine start at 7:00 in the morning. So to think about all the stuff that the guys had to do. So the mission planning, and then to get that information out to... So the ordinance guys had to get all the bombs, the bombs that are specified, the fuses and the timing of the fuses specified, and get those delivered to the plane. The fuel guys had to do the fuel thing. The bomb sight guys had to bring the bomb sights out and... I mean, it's incredible all the stuff that had to happen all throughout the night for this mission. And, so yeah, I learned a lot of that stuff. But yeah, so there were a lot of questions that came up, and it's like, "Yeah, let's go find out."

21:27Taigh RameyThere's a question about dropping smoke bombs, you know, because the very, the lead aircraft had the best bombardier up there, and he would drop bombs, and they would have smoke markers later on in the war, which is a phosphorus-filled bomb in the bottom, and it would go out, and then everybody would see that. Or actually, we talked to Martin Raiber, a World War II bombardier, Eighth Air Force bombardier, still alive. And he said that the other planes would have to fly up, and as soon as they were next to that smoke, they would drop their bombs so that they weren't spread out. It's so much stuff we learned. It was incredible. You know, things I'd heard about, the B-17 with the gunner, the F model with the waist guns right across from each other, how they would interfere. Well, they ended up staggering the waist windows to, you know, resolve that problem. But to see it come to life, to see these gunners, how they were completely across from each other and how they're gonna, you know, do their dance. Plus, with each had four cords going straight up above them. So you had oxygen, headphones, microphones, and heated suit stuff all coming down. That's... It's interesting to see it come to life and to see, you know, how it really looks.

22:27Taigh RameyIt's one thing to read about, but to see it come to life on set was just, it was spectacular.

22:33Jawad MirYeah. Yeah, no, that's beautiful. I was, wondering in terms of, you know, watching the production, right? I mean, like you said, like, you will never see the way movies or a series or TV shows are made. And it's true. Like, even though I am in the world of film, I have been for a long time, you know, it's, it's, every time I see a film or a series, it's really hard not to imagine how a certain shot was done. Like, I really have to knock myself out of it, right? But it's just a natural tendency that comes in. What... Do you remember a specific scene? Well, I don't wanna talk about a scene unless it's not aired. So any specific moment that stood out for you or stands out for you even now during the entire production, without giving away anything, that you're still like, "Wow, that was just, that's just crazy the way it was done," or you appreciate the art more?

23:29Taigh RameyYeah. I, there's a lot of different scenes that come to mind.

23:33Jawad MirLet's say from the first four episodes, because they've already been aired, so…

23:36Taigh RameyYeah

23:36Jawad Mir... We can talk about…

23:37Taigh RameyLike, one of them was, where, the nose was shot up and they were gonna, end up,.. Well, they wanted to lighten up the aircraft, so they're throwing everything out possible. And, normally the bomb sight is, we've got, you know, pretty good weight to it. It's about 40 pounds. So, you know, often that was tossed out, and so they were gonna do that. So you toss that out… Through the hatch there up in the nose. But it's like the nose had been completely shot out, so why not try and push this thing out the glass nose right there? And that's what they ended up doing. Some of those things that, yeah, we learned about and ended up kind of like, adapting the scene to make it a little more authentic and a little more detailed. The, you know, teaching, Raf Law about, you know, to do what Lemmons did, you know, with the magnetos. You know, adjusting the points in the magneto with a feeler gauge and a screwdriver, and this is how we do it. We practice on the bench and then put it up in there, and it's like, go watch that and be like, "Yeah."

24:39Taigh RameyTurned out pretty good. He did a, he did a really good job. And then to see comments online, I got comments from one guy who's a really big war bird restorer down in Australia, saying what the... "I did not expect, the feeler gauge. Well done. That's a great little detail." But that's what this series is all about. It's all these little details. I've been kind of highlighting some of those on Facebook. But these little details add up. I mean, it's, and it's so incredible. It's the same kind of stuff in Band of Brothers. You know, all the neat little detail stuff that makes it what it is. You know, it makes it so special. And, th… for people that are recognizing a lot of that stuff and it's, it's, it's really r… rewarding to see that. But, yeah, it's, it's, it's all in the details, I think. And people see…

25:29Jawad Mir100%. I mean, even if you hire someone to renovate your home, and it's funny you mention that because like, you know, you will look at like if they've redone your room or the entire basement or whatever it is, you will look at it as a whole, but if they've got the baseboard not painted properly or a little chip is coming off, it bothers the hell out of you, right? Because it's all in the details. Everything is in the details. And that, the details make up the, sorry, the grand picture essentially. Like that's, that's how important details are. And you mentioned Band of Brothers, exactly the same thing with Saving Private Ryan, the bullets flying through at the Omaha Beach, you know, the opening sequence, and you hear the bullet sounds. Those little details make a huge impact, and that's exactly with Masters of the Air. Like, you know, when they show you all the... You know, in the older, in the older films, like you'll barely see the control panel of a plane, like, you know, from the '80s or '90s or even early 2000. They will not spend that much time on it because it's just a film or, you know, it's not that important. But again, watching those, everything, the mechanics and, you know, the controls and the machinery gun and everything, the bombs going down even though there were visuals, it just makes a huge impact, 100%.

26:41Taigh RameyIt sure does. And we're all working together on that too. I remember, you know, we're all working on the monitors and I had my own monitor to, carry around with me, but l… looking at the big monitors too, we're all like watching. It's like, with costume guys, you know, or s… "Hey, look, you know, that oxygen mask strap is messed up," or they, on the parachute harnesses, there's these straps that were always coming loose. They're always, you know, bumping on things. So we're helping each other out. "Hey, what about this?" And, "Watch this." And, yeah, a… adding in the details. A… and, you know, again, about the film stuff, there's, they plan like crazy. Like they made tons of 50 caliber spent brass. They made a bunch of them out of rubber so that, you know…

27:19Jawad MirWow

27:19Taigh Ramey... Guys, you know, roll, you know, slip and fall on them, so that they would squish. They had a whole bunch of that stuff. But they made it, they planned for it, but then when it gets down to production, it's like, well, where is it? You know? It's, it's not in there. So, it was fun to kind of like help some of that stuff go. One of the scenes where, you know, i… it's, it's after the battle and there's supposed to be spent shells and links all over and I can't see any in the camera. And they said, "Well, we put some in there." I said, "Well, we need a lot." And he said, "Well, you know, I already put some in." So I get out a picture showing that, you know, you're, you're, these things are up to your ankles almost, in the, in the fuselage or up in the nose. 'Cause each gun is shooting 10, 12 bullets a second, so 10 shells and 10 links are coming out of that gun. That stuff went all over the place. And it's a, it's a neat effect. And so to see, you know, the final sequences, you know, those shells and all over, it's like, oh, cool. You know, that kind of detail really makes a big difference. And then y… you read about comments, you know, people saying how, Crosby had to, you know, wipe the shells off of his maps on his, on his table because that gun is right there above it.

28:21Taigh RameyYou know, it's, that's great stuff in my book. I just love that stuff.

28:26Jawad MirYeah. No, it's so true.

28:28Taigh RameyAnd…

28:28Jawad MirI'm, I'm gonna go... Sorry, go on.

28:31Taigh RameyYeah, sorry to interrupt. But everybody…

28:33Jawad MirNo

28:33Taigh Ramey... All the departments, they all wanted and strived to go to that level of detail. I mean, everybody was so into it, and then it was like that was their mandate. It's, it's, thousands of people working towards this common goal is incredible, to see all these people just going, you know, doing their job and to get it done, you know. It's just like yeah, it was really neat to see.

28:59Jawad MirWell, we, I was talking to you about this, to Colleen Atwood and the costume designer and, maybe anot… somebody else I was pod… talking to on a podcast, not about this series, but another film that they worked on. And it's so true, like, you know, so I come from, and I've said this on this podcast so many times, and I just have to say it because to give context. I come from a military family, right? My dad served the army in, back home in Pakistan for 30 years, and I know exactly how the set, the way, the way film sets work, it's literally like a hier… a hi… a hierarchy in military. Like that's exactly, like you have a certain job, and your common goal is, you know, to win against the enemy or to finish the film, and everybody's doing their part and they have a supervisor who has a supervisor, a g… a senior officer, et cetera, et cetera. And it just, it is so true to the military model and it works like a beautiful, you know... I… it's, it's amazingly, how it's orchestrated and how it turns out, provided it's, you know, a good relationship with people on the sets, it's marvelous to see.

30:03Jawad MirI mean, I am from the industry, and when I see it's just mesmerizing to see every little piece is being done individually with the other counterparts not knowing about it, and then you see it as one big whole when you see it on the big screen.

30:16Taigh RameyYeah. You know, Steven was, very helpful to me 'cause again, I'm an airplane guy, huh? I'm not a…

30:22Jawad MirYeah

30:22Taigh Ramey... You know, not a movie guy. Learning, but y… you know, in doing what I'm doing, I ruffled some feathers for sure. And, Steven says, you know, it's, it's... Everybody is very protective of their lane in the pool.

30:38Jawad MirYeah.

30:38Taigh RameyAnd, yeah, and here I am doing cannonballs in the deep end, you know? Ruffling feathers and things. But, yeah, for the most part, everybody really worked well together to get things done and to have this kinda yes attitude to make it happen. And so, you know, I knew the guys that were getting the certain jobs done, so I could go talk to them about, you know, this and this and fixing something or adding something, whatever, and it worked out well. It's like the guys down in the trenches. But I noticed a disconnect too from the planning and the art department and the storyboards and all that kinda stuff to when it actually is they're getting filmed. Some of, some of those details can get kinda lost. And so, I was trying to bring some of those details back in and,.. But yeah, another guy told me, he says, yeah, a lot of times on set, you know, you can be at each other's throats and wanna just, you know, gouge his eyes out, and then at the after party you're hugging and…

31:33Jawad MirYeah. That's just the nature of business. Right?

31:36Taigh RameyThat's right.

31:37Jawad Mir'Cause it's literally, it's literally like, again, like I said, in the, in the military or Air Force or Navy, like your job is, the mission is to complete something, and you're gonna get at each other's, you know, f… neck every now and then, but as long as it doesn't affect the final outcome, that's all that matters. Then you're just, you know, you've achieved what you wanted to achieve and you're back to buddies again.

32:00Taigh RameyYeah. Yeah. Yeah.

32:03Jawad MirSteven mentioned this to me, and this is how I, you know, heard… learned about you. I wanna know if that actually happened. This is just on the side. He was talking about that how, you know, you were talking to him before the series came out or before even certain things were done where I think it was the front part of the plane, it never catches fire. Was that right? Is that the ar… conversation that you had?

32:28Taigh RameyYeah. And that's the one thing I mentioned, it's just cracking up, about that story that you told.

32:33Jawad MirSo

32:33Taigh Ramey... Yeah, he wrote a, an email with pictures and examples and of the fire, an engine fire. And Hollywood always has, yeah, fire coming out of the front of the engine out of the, this, you know, the cell and going back. And what I said was, you know, there's lots of places where fire can come out, but it doesn't come out the front of the engine like that. And, you know, it's 200 miles an hour wind blowing, so the fire... A… and there's no fuel up there, that kinda thing. So that's what I was trying to get across. There's great places for fire to come out all over. But please don't let it come out the front of the engine. And yeah, that cracked me up how he was saying, "Yeah, well, I'm sure Ty's probably sitting at home throwing stuff at the screen and…"

33:15Jawad MirYeah. Well, did, w… did that... Not that you threw stuff at the screen, but were you... You know, did it bother you? Because it's, it's your world, right? And it's not, if it's not being portrayed... And I know in Hollywood, in filmmaking, stories and liberties take art… you know, take place, but did that bother you? Like, did that annoy the hell out of you when you saw that?

33:33Taigh RameyYeah. Yeah, there are a few things like that, and that was one thing where we see smoke, and fire coming out of the front of the engine, the cell. Yeah. But and there's, you know, comment that the airplane guys online, you know, talk about that kinda stuff too. So yeah, there's... You know, people notice it. Like, there was one time where, one of the B17s came into the studio from Abingdon from the airfield, and they brought it in and s… and reassembled it. And, the prop blades were, of the 12 prop blades, nine of them were to negative pitch, meaning they were kinda backwards.

34:07Jawad MirOkay.

34:07Taigh RameyAnd I noticed that, oh, you know, that's something we should fix. And so I went up to the person that was in charge of that and got a lot of pushback. You know, "No, that's fine," or, "They were filmed that way out there. For continuity, we need to leave it that way." It's like, hold on, yeah, I'm showing you that it's wrong and it's a, kind of a big thing, so you wanna fix it. And it was like, "No, nobody's gonna notice that." Yeah, I think anybody, any pilot, anybody who built a model airplane, anybody with any kind of connection would probably notice. And there've been a few that have slipped through. But it's interesting to see some of the pushback you get. It's like, I think it goes back to that lane in the pool, you know, sort of thing. But yeah, some of, some of those, discussions were a little mind-boggling. And that kind…

34:49Jawad MirWell…

34:49Taigh Ramey... That kind of stuff I like, yeah, throwing stuff at the screen going, "God dang it." You know?

34:53Jawad MirWell…

34:53Taigh RameyI wish I was there for post-production too. That would've been

34:56Jawad MirYeah

34:56Taigh Ramey... Would've helped out. But yeah.

34:59Jawad MirI think there's a, there's a lot of egos, right? That you have to deal with. That's, that's one thing in the film industry. There's a lot of egos. And…

35:07Taigh RameyYou have to

35:08Jawad Mir... Right?

35:08Taigh RameyRight.

35:08Jawad MirAnd then, and that sometimes is okay, but you know, sometimes it's for the wrong reasons. But it is what it is. I mean, you know, unfortunately, you can't have a perfect, outcome in every scenario. But I did wanna ask you kind of mentioned a little bit earlier if there's a specific example that you can think of. You're talking about the certain storyboards, that there was a disconnect between the storyboards and what was really done and everything. And sometimes, you know, when you make concept arts and stuff, and it goes through a process, even storyboards, things change on the set. Was there a specific example that you can think of where that disconnect happened, like in terms of a scene that's already been aired in one of the episodes?

35:52Taigh RameyNothing real big comes to mind. I know Carey was…

35:56Jawad MirOkay

35:56Taigh Ramey... Carey was, in charge of the first, or the director for the first four episodes. And he was, I would say, you know, very artistic and he would change things a lot 'cause something would, you know, some impression would pop in his mind, and he'd wanna make it look better and would change some things. And it was, sometimes we'd have to scramble to, you know, come up with, ways to kinda make that work or, you know, to make sure, you know, it's reasonable authenticity-wise. So yeah, like s… some of the, Yeah, I think like the diving to put out the fire scene…

36:35Taigh Ramey... Or some, actually some of the stuff in, the storyboards for the Greenland landing scene. It worked out f… really well. He's doing a... Austin's doing a great job, you know, flying, looking like you're in a heavy, nasty crosswind. But then I think in post-production, some of the details that we put in got rearranged a little bit. So yeah, that was, you know... But that's just part of the deal. A… again, I wish I could've helped in post-production on some of that stuff, just to give a, you know, a little bit of... Or to give them some, understanding of what we were doing on set trying to create and,.. But yeah, it turned out great.

37:15Jawad MirThat's good.

37:16Taigh RameyIt really did.

37:17Jawad MirH… how has, the traffic on your museum, has it been affected ever since the series came out? People become more aware of it, people popping in more? Has there been any kind of impact in that sense?

37:30Taigh RameyYeah, we have a l… it's a little small museum, and we're, we're only open, a limited amount now. We're gonna start increasing our hours, so we don't have a lot of foot traffic come in. But we'll have special meetings we like to call Warbird meetings, where we've been having, you know, meetings where we come in on Friday nights and watch the latest Masters episode. So that's been fun. We've noticed more interest in the bomber camp kind of thing, which is good, and we're hoping that we'll get, lots of folks signed up for bomber camp, so,.. But, other than that, yeah, we've had a lot of questions, a lot of p… people asking things and I've been making some Facebook posts with some of the photos of some of the details in the background, and that's, you know, seemed to be pretty popular too, so it's been fun.

38:12Jawad MirThat's awesome. I wonder,.. I mean, Tom Cruise is, like, a very big on flying, right? He has... I think he has his own... Does he have his own P… P51 if I'm not mistaken? I'm not sure. Maybe he has another one. But he has an old World War II plane, which they use in Top Gun at the end. Top Gun Maverick. Have you seen Top Gun Maverick?

38:33Taigh RameySure have, yeah.

38:34Jawad MirOkay. So the l… the plane at the end when it flies into the sunset, what was that? Is that... I'm not really that good with names. So is that…

38:40Taigh RameyNo

38:40Jawad Mir... Was that a P51 or no?

38:42Taigh RameyYeah, it is a P51 Mustang, and that's his personal airplane.

38:45Jawad MirYeah.

38:45Taigh RameyYeah.

38:46Jawad MirSo do you see him ever coming to your facility? Because, I mean, it's something that it's, is his interest, right? Like, do you see that happening in terms of celebrities trying to come and sort a… sort of feel the experience of what you guys do?

39:01Taigh RameyOh, I kinda doubt that would happen.

39:04Jawad MirOkay

39:04Taigh Ramey... They're all certainly welcome to. We've had some interest in bomber camp, like, you know, wanting to do, kind of a, you know, TV sh… series kinda stuff or whatever associated with bomber camp. And we've done special kind of events with them, to make that happen. You know, I... Frankly, I'd love to get, Austin and Callum up…

39:27Taigh Ramey... To see, hey, do you want me... You wanna try out a B17? Get 'em up in the cockpit and actually get him to fly one. Yeah, it was kinda fun watching, Callum, on, I think it was The Late Show, talking about,.. They asked him, says, "Hey, do you've got a lot of training now. Do you think you could... You know, if there's a problem with the cockpit, you could get up and fly?" He's like, "No. Absolutely not." And Austin was like, "Yeah, I think I could do it." So…

39:53Jawad MirI…

39:53Taigh Ramey... Would be kinda fun to get those guys up in a B17. And, I just have to, you know, figure out how to ask 'em, I guess, but it would be good to have them come to bomber camp and go play.

40:05Jawad MirWould they be... Did they show an interest during the production that they would wanna eventually do that or afterwards?

40:09Taigh RameyThey didn't in particular. But, Sawyer Spielberg did. He was asking about, "Hey, you know, how do I, get flying lessons? How do I l… learn to fly?" And his grandfather was…

40:20Jawad MirYeah

40:21Taigh Ramey... You know, was... And, that's where, you know, their interest comes in. So yeah, I'd love to get Sawyer up too. He's... Yeah, he was super enthusiastic about that stuff, I think more so than anybody really.

40:34Jawad MirSo, well, it runs in the family, right? Plus his dad has made so many, you know, World War II related films and series, and historically and all that stuff. So it runs in the family and I... It, w… it would be really cool to have these actors that, ones that you work to ha… to go in B17 and actually fly it or co-pilot it or... That'd be really awesome. I mean, that would really be cool to even capture on camera just to, you know, see them in that…

41:04Taigh RameyYeah, I would love…

41:05Jawad Mir... In them

41:05Taigh Ramey... Love to make that happen. Yeah. So, yeah, if you interview 'em for your show, ask 'em if they wanna come out and fly a B17.

41:13Jawad MirWe'll try. We'll try. We're trying to work on few... We actually approached Sawyer Spielberg, but I think he was busy with other stuff, so that didn't turn out. So we're, we're always trying to interview different people, it just depends on their schedule. Everybody moves on to different productions and stuff, so. But one person I really wanna do and, is John Arlov, right? And it, having him on would be really cool.

41:33Taigh RameyYeah, sure.

41:33Jawad MirI'm looking forward to that to see if that happens.

41:35Taigh RameyOh, my God. Kind of the father of this whole thing too, putting the script together and his Bible, all the notes. Yeah, he's... Yeah, he'd be a great interview for you.

41:44Jawad MirYeah. Yeah, it would be awesome. I would love to know, where do you... Do you see yourself or would you like to... 'Cause, you know, I think Masters of the Air, what Saving Private Ryan did in 1998, it started this traffic of World War movies, whether it's World War II mainly, but then later World War I movies came out, a lot of them, and I feel that's exactly what's gonna happen with Masters of the Air. It's gonna start all this trend, you know, in terms of World War II films or World War II Air Force films or even contemporary Air Force stuff. Do you see yourself offering your time and your services as a consultant on future projects? Is that something that you would like to revisit considering you enjoyed what you did on Masters of the Air?

42:33Taigh RameyYeah, I'd love to. I'd love to get involved with that kind of stuff. I think I kind of, I bring a lot in from a wide variety of, World War II aviation, you know, Army and Navy kind of stuff. So I'd, yeah, I'd love to help out with that kind of thing.

42:47Jawad MirWould that something that you would... 'Cause I know I spoke to Captain Dale Dye twice. Once I spoke to him last year about Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers, and once I spoke to him just before the series began, which we haven't put up the episode yet. And, you know, he's, he started back in Platoon days, on Oliver Stone film, and Born on Fourth of July with Tom Cruise, and, what's his name? Charlie Sheen. And then, you know, he's still at it. So I'm just wondering if that's something you see yourself doing throughout your career, if there are opportunities present themselves while running the museum at the same time.

43:23Taigh RameyYeah, absolutely. The museum is kind of low-key and, doing these kind of shows, it was a lot of fun. And, it was great to be able to contribute so much to something like that. I also think in Masters, if, you know, I wish I could've been involved earlier, probably would've saved them a lot of money for some of the production stuff. 'cause it, you know, some of the things were kind of going in kind of an odd direction that wasn't very authentic or,.. And then, you know, when we started talking about that, then things changed, and I feel like it could have saved them a lot of, a lot of money in production just helping to fix some of that stuff if I was involved in the planning. 'Cause, you know, I'd walk on set and it's like, "Oh, wow." we're... You know, they had this one rig that they made, beautiful rig, made to, for the fuselage to rotate completely around in a circle. And I asked one, "What's this for?" And they're like, "Well, this is for the spin sequence." It's like, oh, geez, hold on. It, the dy… you know, went into the dynamics of a spin and what the, what that's involved.

44:24Taigh RameyI said, "Do you guys picture, like the crew, like socks in a dryer kind of like tumbling around in a circle?" Said, "Yeah, exactly." No, it doesn't do that. You know, that kind of stuff. Who knows? I mean, I'm just shooting from the hip, but…... They ended up not doing that big rotation thing, but they just, you know, rolled up on a side, you know, like they'd be pinned on the side of the airplane, something more authentic. So yeah, I see if I was, I think if I was involved in more of the, you know, answering a lot of the questions early on in production or that kind of thing, and provide the documentation that supports it, that it would probably be more efficient for them money-wise. And, I know I could help out in earlier in and all throughout. So yeah, I'd love to do that kind of stuff.

45:01Jawad MirCool. That's awesome. Just as a little plug-in, little plug I'd say that in terms of your museum, just talk about what's at your museum, what can people experience when they come down there, whatever you offer. 'Cause I'd love for people to check out your museum, and I will be coming down there for sure whenever I'm in California next time, 100%.

45:23Taigh RameyYeah. Sounds good. So it's the Stockton Field Aviation Museum, and, it's a small hangar and looks like what you see behind us, and we're gearing it up towards teaching people about kind of just what we did on Masters a… about the air crew. So bombardiers, navigators, gunners, radio operators, pilots. We've got a B-17, cockpit over there, so we can teach people about all these different things. And so we do bomber camp just once a year where, we fly a B-17 and we teach people all day long how to be a bombardier, navigator, all that kind of stuff. And then we actually load up dummy bombs in a B-17 and we train you in the ball turret right here on the ground, and then you actually get to ride on one in flight. Go back to the tail gunner's position. We have a blank firing.50 caliber gun in the waist that you can shoot. So it's an amazing experience. And you, with a Norden bombsight, you get to drop a bomb and try and hit the target. It's, it's really a… an incredible event and, it's a lot of fun. And what we've now d… started to do is, a bomber camp on demand.

46:24Taigh RameySo throughout the year, if you just wanna come and learn that, you know, what your grandfather did or any of that kind of stuff, either ground crew, you know, the wrecker truck, how they would, you know, pick up an airplane or the bomb truck, how you'd load the bombs or, how you're, you know, you flew in the cockpit in a B-17 and go through the procedures and stuff like that to, you know, run the ball turret, that kind of thing. So you can schedule that pretty much any day with us, and come out and learn all that stuff hands-on. It's like the Smithsonian opening up their collection for you to touch and play and hear it run and all that kind of stuff. So it, that's what's kind of special about it. But, even fly, you know, you wanna learn about the Norden bombsight, we can even go up and drop bombs. There's als… you know, the possibility. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's a blast. Bombarcamp.org, shameless plug. But…

47:15Jawad MirNo, that's good. The people need to know. I mean ... You know, in terms of…

47:19Taigh RameyDid you hear about the bomber camp?

47:20Jawad MirYeah. I, well, when is, when is the bomber camp? Like, not the on-demand one, the other one.

47:24Taigh RameyYeah, it's May 3rd.

47:24Jawad MirIs it, like on...

47:26Taigh RameyYeah, May 3rd.

47:26Jawad MirOkay. So it's around the corner.

47:28Taigh RameyYeah. If we fill up, we're gonna m… additional flights will be on May 2nd and, May 4th. We'll see how many, you know, people come to show up. But, yeah, we're, we got a bunch of people signed up already, so, yeah, come on out.

47:42Jawad MirAwesome. And for people's knowledge, u… unless you don't wanna reveal it because it's different package and stuff, what kind of pricing does it start at to experience that? Just so people, if they wanna come in, what should they expect?

47:53Taigh RameyIt's 3,500 bucks for the whole day experience. You come in, 0700, we bring you in to our place. We give you, the coveralls and, you get drill, and then there's instruction, before lunch where you learn, you get classes on, and hands-on experience, on the gunnery and bombardier navigation stuff. And then, we have a World War II lunch, and then we go out and we start, loading up the bombs, with all the vehicles out there at the B-17. There's tents and all the equipment, that you can think of is all around there in this great little revetment. And, you learn about the crew positions, and then we go up and fly a mock mission. And the people rotating around, and like I say, you get to shoot the, shoot the 50 caliber, gun in the waist. Sit in the ball turret and, you know, amazing place to ride in that ball turret. And then you can also watch the bombs drop. We have a bomb bay full of, dummy bombs. And each student will come up and drop a bomb, and you can watch them go and hit the target that we have out in this ranch, this big ranch that's out, east of here.

48:58Taigh RameySo it's, it's, it's great. And then you come back and debrief and go to the Oak Club, and it's a, an amazing experience. It really is. But yeah, full day. It's a living history, World War II, you know, immersive experience that people come back year after year to. It's, it's, it's just a real special event.

49:18Jawad MirThat sounds to me like medieval times on steroids. You know…

49:21Taigh RameyYeah

49:21Jawad Mir... It's, it's basically completely, you're, you're living in the 1940s. And how many people show up every year roughly? Last year, what was the traffic like?

49:32Taigh RameyYou know, we used to have a... With the Collins, Foundation, we had a B-17 and B-24 that we would fly. And we had, I don't know, we had two days worth of students doing two missions each. And, at e… we were even hauling some people out to the bombing range so they could watch it from that, side. But, it varies from year to year, depending on, how many people find out about it. But we'll have... You know, you can rent the whole plane out if you bring in a, you know, a group of, eight people, you know, you can rent the whole plane out yourself. We've had folks just... A guy and his brother rented the whole plane out so they could play and drop all the bombs themselves. So they…

50:11Jawad MirWow.

50:13Taigh RameyYeah.

50:14Jawad MirThat is so cool. That is so cool. Thank you so much, Ty, for joining. I really appreciate it. I really had a great time, learning about your experience, learning about what you do, a little more than I knew before, but I would love to learn more and, you know, we'll meet in person 100%. I'll, I'll keep you posted.

50:33Taigh RameyYeah, looking forward to it. Love to show you around. Let me know what you wanna see, and I'll have it out ready for you.

50:38Jawad MirPerfect. Thank you so much, Ty. You have yourself a great day, and enjoy Masters of the Air.

50:42Taigh RameyThank you so much.

50:44Jawad MirBye. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for watching and listening. Don't forget to subscribe, like, share, and comment, and do come back for another episode. Until then, have a great day.