'Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3', Art Director, Samantha Avila

0:06Jawad MirGood to have you to chat to you about, Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3.

0:09Samantha AvilaThank you.

0:10Jawad MirI will tell you one little thing. It's so weird that how this panned out. Aside from Christopher Nolan's Batman trilogy and Iron Man, I have never seen a superhero movie until…... Yesterday.

0:31Samantha AvilaReally?

0:32Jawad MirYeah.

0:33Samantha AvilaOh my gosh, so you went into it without knowing context or background or anything, oh my gosh, of the characters.

0:40Jawad MirYeah.

0:41Samantha AvilaWow.

0:41Jawad MirSo Guardians of the Galaxy was something that I kept hearing about for the longest time, especially I'm a huge fan of Spielberg, and he even, he even said publicly that it's one of his favorite films.

0:54Samantha AvilaCool.

0:55Jawad MirSo I watched the first two. I haven't seen the third one yet. I just didn't get a chance to move, go to the movie theater, but I watched the first two, and it made sense to me why it's liked by people because it had a lot of nostalgia, of course, a lot of, you know, even some of the characters and the way the lines were reminded me of Han Solo, Star Wars, Indiana Jones. There was that quirkiness to it, and I enjoyed it. I mean, I enjoyed watching it. And so for me it was very important that I always try to do films that I know about, but I wanted to try something a little different, and with Guardians of the Galaxy kind of on my back, you know, back of my head, and thought maybe we should try something and see where it goes. So nothing against the film or anything. It's, I'm just being completely open with you.

1:45Samantha AvilaWell, thank you. Thank you for telling me. That way in case I'm talking about something, you're like, "I have no idea what you're talking about."

1:51Jawad MirNo, I mean, I did some research on your work and, you know, on Nowhere and all that, so I have an understanding. But, you know, I went through your IMDb. I mean, your work in Jurassic World, obviously. I mean, it's Jurassic Park, the original, is one of my favorite films.

2:08Samantha AvilaMe too.

2:09Jawad MirAnd, you know. So tell me about your journey into this world, just art direction in general. How did you get o… get into it? What was it like to begin with?

2:21Samantha AvilaI always loved storytelling since I was young, and, pretty much everything I've, every job I've had, I've had s… had something to do with the entertainment industry. I didn't really know quite what I wanted to do until college. Before that I had played around with animation or editing, sound. I just wanted to be part of filmmaking. Eventually I found out it was films, not necessarily books. I love books, but I was trying to find that path, and in high school that gave me an opportunity to play around with some ideas. And I thought I wanted to be in cinematography because of the creative control that you have, but until I took a production design class in college, I didn't realize what encompassed our department and what we do to create the sets and the setting and the emotional value through visuals that you get with the art department.

3:26Samantha AvilaAnd so I was raised in Texas. I was born in Colorado, raised in Texas, went to school there. I went to UT Austin. And if anybody knows Austin, they know that Austin is a very much a film-friendly…

3:42Jawad MirYeah

3:42Samantha Avila... Ex… yeah. Like very artist, film, music, video games now friendly, and so I was surrounded by a bunch of creative people who wanted to be in film as well. And then when I graduated, I was really, encouraged by my professors to go out to Los Angeles and try my hand there, and at that point I loved sketching, drawing. I loved creature design. I loved concept art. I, had learned how to scenic paint in the theater department, and so I had all these skills. And moving out to LA, I, coincidentally enough, it was in 2008, which was in the middle of a writer's strike, which we are also in now.

4:30Jawad MirRight.

4:30Samantha AvilaAnd so I was told, "You moved to Los Angeles at the worst possible time," and it was three years of, Craigslist jobs and independent films and tiny projects, which is really great education.

4:49Jawad MirYeah

4:49Samantha Avila... And I always encourage that for people. Don't work for no money, but if you want to…

4:55Jawad MirYeah. Yeah

4:55Samantha Avila... That's your choice. And so I, when I first moved out to LA, there's a production designer named Michael Cornblith, and he went to UT Austin as well. And I met him in Austin through one of my professors, John Blood. And Michael told me, "When you move out to Los Angeles, here's my email. Email me." And he was one of the first person I did, and he was one of the first to respond, and he had a tiny little theater project that was potentially no pay, but I got paid 50 bucks. And I tell all this story because I did the project in LA. It was fantastic. I had such a great time. Three years later, he, in keeping in touch with him over the years, he finally came back to Los Angeles after working out of state, had a job opportunity as a production assistant, and that was my foot in the door. I interviewed and got in on a film called Dinner for Schmucks, if anyone has seen it, with Paul Rudd and Steve Carell and Zach Galifianakis.

6:02Jawad MirOh, I gotta watch it now because…... It sounds great. Noth… nothing against you. Now I gotta watch it.

6:06Samantha AvilaNo, I know. It's a, it's a small film. It didn't, do great at the box office, but it was wonderful. Like a wonderful crew, great script. I had such a wonderful time. And after that… It's kind of this rolling ball. Once you get your foot in the door…

6:24Jawad MirYeah

6:24Samantha Avila... And if you are positive, and a hard worker, and committed, and you show that commitment, it just became job after job after job. Long story short, until Michael called me again and asked if I wanted to, af… this was probably four years in, three to four years in, be on a film called Game Change…

6:45Samantha Avila... Which was my next step into the union. And after that is another snowball effect, of just show after show after show, until it led to me being an art director. So it's a, it's a long process, and everybody has a different story, but, mine went from PA, a little bit of coordination work, assistant art director for a number of years, and then art director.

7:13Jawad MirYeah. No, it's, it's actually so true that, and I have this conversation with people all the time, that sometimes the people that you meet, you don't know how they're going to become a part of your life down the road. And it happens to all of us. And, you know, even the biggest setbacks, one of the projects... So I'm a filmmaker myself, and…

7:39Samantha AvilaYes

7:39Jawad Mir... One of the s… projects that I was working on, we had a major setback, and we decided to pull out from the production. And but, you know, we lost money, which is, you know, it is part of the process. But the, one of the person who invested in that project believed in us so much more that just resonated step after step after step to next films. And had it not been for that setback, who knows what would've happened, right? So it's so imperative not to be despair when things are going down, because you just don't know what's being cooked in the background.

8:19Samantha AvilaOh, absolutely. I could not agree more. And on top of that, knowing that setbacks can be a benefit down the road, and you can't see that in the future, there's also people you work with. Like, I'm, I'm always been somebody that you should always treat other people with kindness…

8:38Jawad MirYeah

8:38Samantha Avila... Not because it's gonna benefit you, but just…

8:40Jawad MirYeah. Yeah

12:29Samantha Avila... Because there are many people out there who are not, quote unquote, "as successful", but successful is all in the mi… eye…

12:39Jawad MirYeah, it's relative

12:39Samantha Avila... The eye of the beholder.

12:40Jawad MirYeah, it's a relative term. Yeah.

12:42Samantha AvilaIt's a relative term, totally, and I've just been super lucky enough to get on these projects with people who are also as nerdy as me, and we get to just go create worlds together, which is something I did when I was young. Only it's just with more money. You know?

13:02Jawad MirYeah, and I'm glad you brought the money point. So money is obviously essential, right? But at the same time, my experience has been if I am going to start something thinking the money in mind, which has happened twice…

13:16Samantha AvilaYeah

13:16Jawad Mir... And both times I gave up on it because my heart was not in there. And that was a lesson learned for me that, yes, money should be. You're not sure… doing stuff for free, but you have to have your heart and soul into it first, and then, you know, just keep at it because that's the only thing that's gonna hold you back. It ho… ho… holds you to it, basically, essentially.

13:35Samantha AvilaYeah.

13:35Jawad MirIt's just that passion and that drive because you become a child when you're doing something that you love. It doesn't have to be film, anything.

13:43Samantha AvilaAbsolutely. I've just reignited my passion in reading because I've been just working, and working, and I remember just love, like, just immersing myself in a book and in this world and just devouring it. And that love for a story is what keeps me going. And obviously you're gonna... Like, for what I do, you're gonna get on projects that sometimes you don't quite understand the script, you're not as passionate about.

14:09Jawad MirYeah.

14:09Samantha AvilaBut I always try and find something, like you said. You, if you're... Where is your heart? Where can you find that thing that sparks your interest, that makes you excited to get up in the morning to go and do whatever…

14:21Jawad MirYeah

14:21Samantha Avila... It is you're doing? And everybody's answer to that is different. Like, my dad is a dog trainer. He loves working with animals, and that is his passion, and that's what keeps him going and has sustained him his whole life of something he loves. And I just always encourage people, and people who say, "Well, sometimes being an artist is what you love to do, but doesn't get you any money." And that's a question I think people have to ask themselves, and I think it's a question a lot of artists are asking themselves in the AI debate and the…

14:55Jawad MirYeah

14:56Samantha Avila... And the, like, the social media of it all. I don't have as many followers. I'm, you know, not as popular, but if it's not you and it's not true, I think people see through that, and I think that…

15:10Jawad MirOh, true

15:10Samantha Avila... Way.

15:11Jawad MirPeople, now people see genuineness so clearly. Like, that's something that, you know, news versus a podcast by Joe Rogan or somebody else.

15:23Samantha AvilaYeah.

15:23Jawad MirYou know, people see through that, and that's... People like genuineness, period. And the camera never lies. You know…

15:31Samantha AvilaYeah

15:32Jawad Mir... Anytime I have interviewed a subject for my documentary, I can tell in a matter of seconds if they're BS-ing or not.

15:37Samantha AvilaOh, really?

15:39Jawad MirBecause it's, it's so obvious. Like, I can tell if they're just giving a dramatic twist to it or if they're just…... BS-ing or if they're lying because y… you can see it in the eyes. You can so easily see it in the eyes of people when they're talking. And yes, I mean, there's emotional baggage, sometimes biases people have, we all do, towards certain things, which is fine. But at the end of the day, you know, genuineness works like a charm, and that's something that I really try on this podcast too, is I just let myself go and just don't worry about anything. But one thing I completely avoid is political debates. Like, I just don't wanna talk about anything.

16:14Samantha AvilaOh, yeah.

16:14Jawad MirAnything politics because that's gonna open up another can of worm, and it's not worth it.

16:19Samantha AvilaAuthenticity, I think for me, is one of, like, the pillars of how I've tried to live my life, and I've not always been perfect, but something that you said you look in, you look at people and can see it. I look the same, and, that, whether that's an artist, a writer, an actor, a designer

16:41Jawad MirYeah

16:41Samantha Avila... And I've been lucky enough, I think, in my career to encounter so many people who are authentic and push us all to be as authentic as possible instead of trying to people please, instead of

16:57Jawad MirYeah

16:57Samantha Avila... Trying to fit the norms. Like, I was just,.. I don't know where I just saw this, that, Denis Villeneuve for Dune was asking his crew to meditate and not do Google searching, and I went, "Wow, that's cool." Like, you know, because it's a different way of trying to…

17:17Jawad MirYeah

17:17Samantha Avila... Ask you be your most authentic self and be creative and free. Like, obviously we do a lot of Google searching and in our research, and try and base our world off of what we know… ... As human beings on Earth exist. And so we're not copying, copy and paste, which I know there's a lot of criticism in some of the films we do. There's a lot, that there's a lot of copy and paste, but I can tell you from where I'm sitting, there's as much authenticity that we bring as an art department to a set, so that when you step onto a set, whether you're a crew member or an actor, director, that you are immersed in a world. And to watch people's eyes light up like they are kids, it's like, "Oh, right. We're just big kids just make…"

18:10Jawad MirYeah

18:10Samantha Avila... Like making all this fun stuff, you know? To tell a story, to hopefully change people's lives for the better.

18:19Jawad MirTrue. It's so true. And, you know, talking about Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3, I think you worked on the holiday special from what I saw on IMDb, if I'm not mistaken, correct?

18:30Samantha AvilaYes. We shot the holiday special, parallel with the actual film. So there was obviously some actor, scheduling. So we were a few months into filming Guardians and then had to do some reset on our sets for, the holiday special. And so that shot, there was some stuff in LA, that was shot as well. So my set was nowhere, so that is the, disembodied celestial head…

19:04Jawad MirGot it

19:04Samantha Avila... That we've seen before. But this time not only did we have everything that happens in Volume 3, but we also had the lovely Christmas special. So you are correct.

19:14Jawad MirGot it. And tell me what ins… I mean, you know, y… y… you didn't work on the first two, right? But having to keep that in mind but also bringing some original stuff from your DNA into it, is that... What was the process of that like? Like, where did the inspirations come from, if any? How did you go about doing the wor… And you can speak that in general context of your work in general. Like how, what inspires you, what motivates you in the context of the Guardian of the Galaxy Volume 3?

19:46Samantha AvilaOh, wow. Yes. So as an art department, we have a team of people, I would say an army of people, who…

19:57Jawad MirSure

19:57Samantha Avila... All are bringing something creative to the table. And so when I came on, I had seen volume one and two, but I'll be completely honest, I wasn't as... I didn't know it as in depth or as well as say something like Spider-Man.

20:12Samantha AvilaWhich I loved and grew up with and then got to work on. But, so for me it was kind of fresh and new. And when I stepped on board volume three, there was already some concept art that our concept illustrators had done, and there was some 3D models that had already been developed, kind of some big blocking massing models, where certain pieces were on stage.

20:40Samantha AvilaAnd so when I came in, there was this massing idea where things were, and then what I helped do is really tailor and guide the aesthetic through completion to shoot. For me, I came in going, "Oh my gosh, this is not my rhetoric. I have no idea. I don't know this world." So what I spent a lot of time doing at first was re-watched all the films. We also got the hard drive from the original films, and I dug into every single photo, every little detail, all the drawings that was done on Nowhere from volume one, from the incredible designer Charles Wood, who has worked on many of the Marvel films, including Avengers: Infinity War, which they had also done a section of Nowhere Spaceport there. Thankfully one of our art directors, David Scott, our supervising art director, it was Beth Mickle, our designer, Alan Hook and David Scott were,..

21:46Samantha AvilaAlan and Dave were the supervising art directors. And Dave had done, had been the art director for the Nowhere Spaceport in Infinity War. So it was very helpful for him to be able to tell me, "Oh, that grading we used, this kind of grading or this material, we used that." And so it really helped open my brain to how can I use real world materials, paint them, cut them up, put some light behind it and when you put it on a wall, it looks like space stuff. So there was that and there's so much, there's so much. I think the major things for me were those images. Working with our set designers and developing this world, we started to call it space deco because…

22:39Samantha Avila... We were like, "What is this aesthetic?" It's not Star Wars, it's not Captain America. It's not like we were trying to figure out what it was called. And so because we had so many different locations, the armory, the bar, the apartments, each place had its own aesthetic. And if you go back and re-watch or pay attention, each of those buildings have a very specific kind of style and color, and there's a lot in there. Every little detail was not overlooked. The colors are very specific for me. I started, I started out with looking at video games. Honestly, I didn't really know where to start. Beth our incredible designer, she let me play in this world and so I really started looking at video games and what are their color palettes because it's fun, right? Quill is a video game…

23:36Jawad MirYeah

23:36Samantha Avila... Kind of guy. And so like, I thought, "Well, it'll be fun if, his color was like Donkey Kong." You know? Like his room. And so that was really fun to develop that. So not only that, but there were other things we looked at like, we all went as an art department down to, Star Wars Land in…

23:59Jawad MirOh

23:59Samantha Avila... In Disney World. For us, it's also helped us with dressing. So our incredible decorator, Rosemary Brandenburg, had a incredible team of people. So all of the, all of the things that you see on screen that are in front of the wall and all of the cables and all of those Christmas lights, that's all her and her team. The tools on Rocket's shelf, his bedding, the shelving that has everything is labeled, in the font of Nowhere. All of that stuff comes from, I would say, just the compendium of… Hours and weeks of research between Star Wars land. I looked at something like, Warhammer 40,000, but also looking at degraded, abandoned factories, what Charles Wood did, and what existed before. And then the comics.

24:59Samantha AvilaI have to say, like, I had, I had, pages from the comics of what Nowhere looked like on my wall so that if there was any doubt of like, what should I do about this detail and the door? How can I communicate something that's a bit of an Easter egg? I would be looking at the comics and that would help inform my decision. So long way of saying that it is just a giant bag of tricks.

25:29Jawad MirSure.

25:29Samantha AvilaAnd I am so grateful for my team who brought their own bag of tricks. So if I was ever struggling with something or if I didn't have as much of a guide, they would say, "Oh, I've used this before. I have this thing, or what do you think of this?" And I'd be like, "Brilliant. Let's do that. Yes." So yeah. So it's also a team effort, big team effort.

25:52Jawad MirFor sure. I mean, filmmaking is collaboration no matter what department you're in.

25:56Samantha AvilaYes.

25:56Jawad MirYou know, even smaller films or major films. You know, one of the things that we all as human beings, go through, like, you know, if we're sleeping or if we're walking or if we're doing something where we're not actually working, just relaxing…

26:14Samantha AvilaYeah

26:14Jawad Mir... A lot of ideas come to our head, whatever that may be, like a concept of a film or a concept of art direction or whatever. Has there been a moment like that, whether it was Guardian of Galaxy or any other film where you had a eureka moment in the middle of the night and you decide to draw it or on the phone when you're walking?

26:33Samantha AvilaYes, but that is such a great question because it's so true. I would say for me, hiking is that thing. I get into nature and I'll just go for a few hours, help clear my head. You can't always do that when you're working sometimes in an office.

26:49Jawad MirYeah.

26:49Samantha AvilaYou gotta go. I have absolutely had the eureka moment in the past, and I'm, and I'm trying to think of one on Guardians because I know I had it. There was definitely a few times of eurekas, a few times where you go, "Oh, could this, could this work? This could work." I know on Spider-Man there was a moment on No Way Home where I was trying to find the right, reference to give our construction and sculpt and plaster department who they're another incredible team of artisans, that build our worlds. Like we come up with all this fun stuff, and then they're like…

27:40Jawad MirRight

27:40Samantha Avila... "Okay, now how are we gonna actually do it?" And they have a set of skills, real world skills, and I was struggling with how to get them the right ca… the set that was mine was, Doctor Strange's sanctum basement.

27:55Jawad MirYep.

27:55Samantha AvilaAnd one of them was the cave and the cave detail. And I remember struggling with trying to find the right images, and there was a location in Turkey that I knew was perfect, but I only could find a few Google search images of it. It might have been 4:00 in the morning I woke up and I was like, "I wonder if there's one of those 360 panoramic views that exists of this ancient location in Turkey." And sure enough, there was. So I just dove in and started taking, like zooming around and taking screenshots of all the details, and took them into work. And I'd like to believe that they were helpful. I think they were for our plaster and sculpt department. But things like that. I think sleep helps. I've found sleeping helps as well to help clear your mind.

28:47Samantha AvilaNot getting enough sleep, you're clouded by judgment, of things that you've seen throughout the day. If I think of another one, I'll let you know. But the, there was definitely…

29:00Jawad MirNo, that's fine

29:00Samantha Avila... A lot on Guardians. Yeah.

29:02Jawad MirSure. Did you, did you work directly with James Gunn, at all, or was it just more of sort of like, through other people that you worked with?

29:11Samantha AvilaIt was mainly through other people. So, there was a few interactions. So the way a big film like this is run, there are supervising art directors who are Alan and Dave…

29:26Jawad MirYep

29:26Samantha Avila... And Beth, who is our production designer, is the head of the department. So as art directors, we are usually assigned specific sets.

29:35Jawad MirRight.

29:35Samantha AvilaThat's not always the case on smaller films, but, so I would end up running a lot of things through Beth, Alan and Dave because they are my superiors. And they were the ones sitting down for a lot of the meetings. However, there are definitely times where have to be there with James on a walkthrough with the actors to understand scale and height. When we were first building Nowhere, and it was just a few sticks of lumber, before we had put anything down, none of the dirt was down, and everybody's walking through, and we have little scale foam core cutouts of Rocket, and we had some of, for the other sets, we had Teefs and Lila and Floor. And it really helps with a director and with actors to understand timing. How long does it take for characters to say their dialogue and walk from one place to another? So working with James on individual sets, yes.

30:39Samantha AvilaLike, and sometimes there's moments like the changeover we had for the destruction. I remember we, it was Beth and I, and we had this, incredible scale model built by our model maker Brett Phillips and his assistant Travis. And it was all white foam core, and we had all these little tiny rubble pieces, and we had to have a meeting while James was shooting, which is... But we had to have a meeting about this changeover, and the only time he's there is, sometimes he's so busy that it's during the middle of shooting. So we had to have the right time to be able to talk to him and show him there on the set the scale model of, like, where are we gonna do all this destruction. So times like that, yes, you get to have direct interaction. And he's so creative and so funny and so smart that it's, it's, it's overwhelming sometimes to be like, "Oh, gosh, I hope I did... Hope I'm, I'm seeing his vision through."

31:41Jawad MirYeah.

31:41Samantha AvilaBut I really, I just can't stop, giving so much praise to Beth, Alan, and Dave. They were a huge part of why things look as brilliant as they do.

31:53Jawad MirYeah. I mean, the film set essentially, I like to look at it, like, as a chain of command, like a military unit. You know? Like, you have, you know, different people on the top, and then medium and bottom and all that, and it's, it's, you know, it's a collaborative effort. And unfortunately, you know, something that is, it has changed and I wish there was more of it in the, when it comes to recognition. You know, yes, the director is the captain of the ship, and yes, you know, there's producer, art directors and stuff, but there are just so many unsung heroes, right? Like for example, stuntmen or stunt women.

32:29Samantha AvilaOh, yes.

32:31Jawad MirYou know?

32:31Samantha AvilaLove our stuntmen.

32:32Jawad MirLike nobody recognizes them. I mean…

32:36Samantha AvilaYeah

32:36Jawad Mir... You look at Tom, someone like Tom Cruise, right? I mean, he's like the superstar, and he's done ridiculous, crazy stunts, and yet nobody has recognized him officially. It's, it's insane…

32:47Samantha AvilaOh

32:48Jawad Mir... That why is it…

32:49Samantha AvilaI've definitely watched him in motion. Sorry.

32:52Jawad MirNo, I do too. I can't wait for the new MI7. I mean, I'm just dying…

32:56Samantha AvilaYeah

32:56Jawad Mir... To see that film. But it's just there's so many unsung heroes. Like, if you... You know, if you go sit through the credits at the, at the end of the movie in a movie theater, and, you know, you will have, like, maybe the first eight slides, like, you know, the main ones. And after that, the whole scroll ki… ki… kicks in.

33:14Samantha AvilaYeah.

33:14Jawad MirAnd then you're like…

33:14Samantha AvilaYeah

33:15Jawad Mir... Why are these people not talked about?

33:20Samantha AvilaI know. I mean, and it's... And that's what I tell people if they're trying to get into film. I say, "Stick for the credits and look how many people there are. And if you're interested in a certain department, just look it up. Google is your best friend with that."

33:34Jawad MirYeah.

33:34Samantha Avila"Look up what these people do." and no part is too small. I mean, every…

33:40Jawad MirNo

33:40Samantha Avila... Person has such a giant part to play. And you know as a filmmaker, everybody, your, from your PAs, your runners, s… ... In art department, our set designers, graphic artists, and I think there were about 50 people in the art department. So, and that's just the art department. There are 200 people in construction, and were 150 people on set dec. I may be exaggerating the set dec now, I'm not sure. That's, that's very…

34:07Jawad MirNo, I can imagine for a big film like that, for sure. I mean, you have to have that many people, I mean, just to, you know, obviously the budgets are so high, so that makes sense.

34:18Samantha AvilaYeah. And I'm always so appreciative and fascinated by the skills that people come in. Our prop makers and our metal workers, I had this incredible foreman, Sergei Maseroff, and he ran nowhere. That was his set from beginning to end. He was there 5:30 in the morning until 6:00 PM at night. And he had…

34:46Jawad MirWow

34:46Samantha Avila... To deal with structural issues and make it safe for the crew. That is, that is not my wheelhouse.

34:54Jawad MirThat's huge, yeah. Yeah.

34:56Samantha AvilaAnd it is, I don't know if the photo will ever get released, but there was a photo of the, all the crew that were left at the very end of filming, and they were all on the stairway and in front of the apartment building on the top level and the middle and below. And it's just massive what they created.

35:14Jawad MirYeah

35:15Samantha Avila... And Chris Snyder, our construction coordinator, is like a force of nature. He, all those sets that you saw, the Arete, the Bowie.

35:23Jawad MirYeah.

35:24Samantha AvilaAll, a… a… I think a lot of people consider Marvel films as being all visual effects, and I love them and I think they're an incredible department for the extensions, but James was very specific on Guardians about wanting to build as much as possible. And so if you see any behind the scenes stuff of what we did, we were incredibly fortunate to be able to build a lot of these sets.

35:51Jawad MirYeah. I mean, I noticed that with the first and the second one. I could tell which were… ... Practical sets and which were not. And that, and that's what for me one of the reasons I have, I shouldn't say, maybe I should. One of the reasons I have sort of stayed away from superhero films is because of that, so much visuals and so much explosions and it maybe when you're, when you're, when you're a kid, it's awesome, you know, when you're young. But for me, it wasn't. But when I saw Guardians of the Galaxy, I will admit there were some scenes that were way too much for me. But at the same time, there was enough to balance out with the practical effects versus the visual effects. Wherever there could be practical effects, there were. You know, obviously you can't have, like, a space, you know, in the middle of space, you can't have a practical effect for that.

36:34Samantha AvilaYeah.

36:36Jawad MirRight? But anything else, whether it was a ship, whether it was a forest, whether it was just anything, you, they would actually, you guys would actually go there and… And then that's what I loved about the film the most, among many other things, is that there was that level of, again, going back to gen… genuine, you know, being real. People like that stuff now. I think people have gone past all bl… blazing out special effects, I feel. There are some exceptions of course, but, you know, one of the things that I'm really excited about, and I saw this on your IMDb after we contacted you're working on Francis Ford Coppola's film.

37:15Samantha AvilaYeah. So, actually it's a bit of a funny story. So I was on that film for, a few months in the fall.

37:27Jawad MirYeah.

37:27Samantha AvilaAnd that was from July until December.

37:32Jawad MirYeah.

37:32Samantha AvilaAnd then, just to be completely honest, we had to walk away from the film in January with our designer, Beth…

37:41Jawad MirOh, no

37:41Samantha Avila... And, David Scott. So, sorry. Yeah.

37:44Jawad MirThat's okay.

37:44Samantha AvilaSo it was,.. It's very unfortunate, but, I look at that experience as being, yeah, one of the highlights, of my life. I mean, how do you say no to that film? And I felt very grateful for the opportunity and the experience being on that project.

38:10Jawad MirGreat. No, I, that's fine. I'm, I'm not gonna ask you any kind of…

38:13Samantha AvilaNo

38:13Jawad Mir... Juicy details. Don't worry. That's, that's not my role or anything.

38:17Samantha AvilaI couldn't say even... Yeah. I wouldn't say.

38:18Jawad MirYeah. I know, I know. Which is…

38:20Samantha AvilaYeah

38:20Jawad Mir... Which is one of the reasons. But no, this... It, w… w… if you were to pinpoint something way in the beginning that gave you that bug of being involved in the film, was it a particular film that you saw or a moment that got you where you are right now?

38:41Samantha AvilaI don't think it was moments, it was films.

38:44Jawad MirWhich one was it?

38:44Samantha AvilaI would say Spielberg abs…

38:47Jawad MirOkay.

38:47Samantha AvilaOh, Jurassic Park for sure.

38:50Jawad MirOkay. So it was Jurassic Park.

38:53Samantha AvilaJurassic Park. Oh yeah, Jurassic Park, Lord of the Rings, the original Lord of the Rings, were very influential. I remember... A… and Tim Burton films, I think

39:04Jawad MirOf course

39:04Samantha Avila... Stuff like Nightmare. Of course. I'm very much a macabre lover, like, occulty, macabre, dark stuff. So I always loved that. And creatures. I really did think for a hot second I was gonna go be a creature designer, which I also would've loved. I love creatures. And horror. I love horror. And so those were films. Indiana Jones also for me was very influential. There were films I watched over and over and over again as a kid. ET. So a lot of Spielberg. Obviously a lot of Spielberg.

39:46Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

39:46Samantha AvilaThey were just some of the first I ever remember. And the first time I remember looking at the credits and seeing people's names and thinking, "Wait, there are people besides the actors that, like, they work on these films?"

40:06Jawad MirYeah.

40:06Samantha AvilaAnd that kickstarted an interest. And then of course, when I was in high school, Lord of the Rings had come out, and The Matrix. That was a huge... When you saw The Matrix, m… maybe not so much now, but when I, it first came out and I saw it, I was…

40:21Jawad MirOh, it was a huge deal

40:22Samantha Avila... Blown.

40:23Jawad MirIt was a huge deal.

40:24Samantha AvilaHuge deal. It was the huge... Like, I'd forgotten how big of a deal it was, and that was another one where I was like, it just felt so different. And so for me, like, that really kickstarted my interest into production design. What did that mean? What did the sets mean? Getting to see what people built and painted and just really felt so cool just building these worlds and getting to live inside these worlds. I mean, it's, it was my dream. It's like…

40:59Jawad MirYeah

40:59Samantha Avila... Every kid's dream, getting to jump into a world. It was the dream I had when I was reading books and being like, "I wish I could just be there." And now I get to do that. So yeah, I would say Spielberg and, a lot of the Spielberg, like I mentioned, and Lord of the Rings.

41:17Jawad MirIt's, it's crazy, you know, the fact that you just mentioned about what goes behind the scene. I think I became probably aware of that when I saw the making of Jurassic Park. I wasn't blown a… what, I wasn't blown away by the amount of people that worked on it, but I was blown away by the amount of work that went into creating those dinosaurs.

41:38Samantha AvilaOh my God, yes.

41:39Jawad MirYou know, from the design to animatronics to eyes, like all the, you know, finicky detail. And now it's become such a big thing. Like, you know, we actually believe that dinosaurs looked like that. So every time I see a film that has dinosaurs and they don't look like the dinosaurs from Jurassic Park, they can't be real because it's just, it sets up, sets a, set such a precedent, right? And that's what…

42:04Samantha AvilaYeah

42:05Jawad Mir... The popular culture does, I guess.

42:08Samantha AvilaWell, you bring up a really great point, and I love the... I've loved science. I loved the sciences since I was a kid. I love science.

42:17Jawad MirYeah.

42:17Samantha AvilaI still do. And the interesting debate, the cyclical nature of our industry, of art in general, how art influences, cultures or how science influences art, and this nature of they all, they all are kinda doing the same thing and kind of running in the same circles, and you can't quite pinpoint who is who. Like did Star Trek come up with that first or did, you know, some…

42:49Jawad MirYeah

42:49Samantha Avila... Some engineer come up with that first? And from where I'm standing, it's a bit of both. So what w… we do as creatives is we're looking at a lot of real world things… ... And scenarios to give realism to a thing. But you're still create… you're taking your twist on it and making it fantastical. Sometimes, not always. But

43:12Jawad MirYeah

43:12Samantha Avila... Well, even in realism, right? You've seen, you've seen movies. I've worked on movies that are based on real life people. There's still some liberty taken to tell a good story.

43:20Jawad MirOf course. You have to. You have to.

43:22Samantha AvilaYou have to. You have to. Or else, you know, there's plenty of documentaries you can go and see. But we're in the nature…

43:28Jawad MirYeah

43:28Samantha Avila... Of the storytelling.

43:30Jawad MirYeah.

43:30Samantha AvilaAnd storytellers always embellish. And so I, like you said with dinosaurs, people's version of reality is based on fantasy versus reality, and I love that debate of like, where do folk… where do our human folktales and fables come from? They come from a modified version of real events.

43:58Jawad MirYeah

43:59Samantha Avila... And what does that mean for realism and does it matter for us as a society if it, if we've told a story and it made a big difference in who we are, how much does realism still come into play? And how does that story actually influence science? Like, that's a crazy thought. That's a, that's a lot. That's why I feel like another debate.

44:27Samantha AvilaBut I love that you brought that up, 'cause I do see that and I acknowledge that. And just know that as artists making these films, we are out there paying attention on everything that's happening. Artists, science, culture, politics.

44:45Jawad MirYeah.

44:45Samantha AvilaAll of that, to influence what we do.

44:48Jawad MirRight. You know, being on that conversation, you look at, James Cameron, The Terminator. And you look at Steven Spielberg's AI: Artificial Intelligence, right?

45:00Samantha AvilaYes.

45:00Jawad MirWith Haley Joel Osment.

45:02Samantha AvilaYes.

45:03Jawad MirAnd now we are living in that AI world.

45:08Samantha AvilaYeah.

45:08Jawad MirAnd I mean, this is something that Netflix did recently. I haven't seen it. They made a short animated film completely out of AI.

45:16Samantha AvilaOh, big news

45:16Jawad Mir... And there was a lot of protests by the animators. And I just saw, I was just showing to my, colleague these images of the royal family in a complete '80s getup, like very hip, very... You know, you would love those images. Like, they're full of colors and brightness, and they look as real as anything can be. People's jobs now, I mean, let's talk about in the film industry, right? Like, now you…

45:41Jawad Mir... There are so many AI websites. You can just drag and drop something or you can tell it, and it will manipulate everything. ... Is that something you feel in your view is at stake right now unless there are some regulations put in place?

45:58Samantha AvilaIt's such a, it's such a debate that I feel like every day I talk about.

46:05Jawad MirI know, I know. But…

46:06Samantha AvilaNo, it's a good thing. It's a good thing. I wanna talk about it. I think it's important. Do I feel like it's at stake? Yes. However, something, there's an artist I follow and on one of his YouTube channels he talks about that authenticity. And that in a weird way, un… unbeknownst, I feel like, to any of us going, oh, of course, that the prevalence of AI in our society for the common person, and I say that like if you are not involved in the art community and you're not as aware and you're seeing AI art, that people are actually looking at artists. Artists in terms of like painters, pencil artists…

47:00Jawad MirYeah

47:00Samantha Avila... Sculptors, as having more value. So when somebody goes up to an artist and says, "You drew that? That's not AI, you drew that?" It's n… before it used to be like, "Oh, that's cool. You drew that." And now it's like, "Oh, you're actually, you actually put in the time and effort to develop this."

47:19Jawad MirIf you can talk about this. I know you mentioned you're in Atlanta for a project. What's, what's on the horizon next? Like what are you working on that's something that you can talk about?

47:31Samantha AvilaI don't think I can talk about it quite yet. Unfortunately

47:35Jawad MirYeah, okay. No you can't. No worries.

47:36Samantha AvilaI can't.

47:37Jawad MirNo worries.

47:38Samantha AvilaBut it's gonna be fun. I'll definitely say it's gonna be fun.

47:42Jawad MirIs it coming out next year?

47:46Samantha AvilaNo. No, I think it would be... No, it wouldn't be next year. It would have to be the year after at least.

47:51Jawad MirOkay, so it's two years from now.

47:53Samantha AvilaYeah.

47:53Jawad MirOkay, so in very early stages then.

47:56Samantha AvilaVery early stages.

47:57Jawad MirYeah.

47:57Samantha AvilaAnd fingers crossed. You know, the writers' strike, I'm totally in support of them and what they're fighting for. But that will affect a lot of people and a lot of productions that are, in either in production or in pre-production right now.

48:14Jawad MirYeah. Yeah. And is there anything on the horizon that you wanna do besides art direction, whether it's, I know you talked about earlier that at one point you thought you might be a director. Or anything else that you wanna touch upon, or this is, this is your path?

48:30Samantha AvilaI think this is my path for now. I would love to, investigate the production designer role, I think in the future. Yeah, I would say continuing to be an artist and evolve my artistic skill set. Oh. Oh, did it break up again?

48:57Jawad MirYeah, I'm not sure what happened, but go on. Sorry.

48:59Samantha AvilaOkay. Yeah, so production design, but also just as a personal note of being an artist again. Sometimes when you're working in what we do, it's a lot of management skills, which is great, communication skills. Spending the time to be that artist, and just try different skill sets really.

49:27Jawad MirOkay.

49:29Samantha AvilaYeah.

49:29Jawad MirCool. That's, that sounds great. Any word of advice to future art directors?

49:36Samantha AvilaOh, to future art directors, persistence. Keep going, keep your heart in it, and keep learning. Speaking of things I'm doing right now, I've been taking Unreal classes and Rhino classes. As an art director, you work a lot in 3D these days. Again, it's another tool and a skill, to help advance my skill set. Like, always feel like you're a river and never a stale pond, that you're…

50:06Jawad MirNice way to put it

50:06Samantha Avila... Keep going.

50:07Jawad MirYeah.

50:07Samantha AvilaThank you. Keep growing. Keep learning. Keep curious. Keep curious, and keep your heart in it.

50:16Jawad MirYeah. No, well said. That's, that's so true. I think the day you think that you have figured it out all, that is the stepping stone of your demise. So, you know, I think we never figure out things that we think that we have. It's always a con… ongoing process of learning and trying to figure things out for our own growth and for our sanity at the same time.

50:39Samantha AvilaAbsolutely. That's such a great way of putting it. Yes. Thank you.

50:43Jawad MirGreat. Thank you so much, Sam. I appreciate your time. It's been a delight talking to you, and hopefully maybe we can talk in the near future with, about Jurassic World, and then down the road whenever you have that next project that's public.

50:55Samantha AvilaI would love to. Thank you. This has been such a pleasure.

50:59Jawad MirPleasure is all mine. Thank you so much, Sam. Have yourself a great day.

51:02Samantha AvilaThank you. You too.

51:03Jawad MirTake care. Bye-bye.

51:13Samantha AvilaBye.