'Cradle Will Rock', Composer, David Robbins

0:08Jawad MirHey, David. How are you doing?

0:10David RobbinsI'm good. How are you doing?

0:11Jawad MirI'm doing great. I'm doing great. How's the weather treating you over there? Nice and warm now?

0:19David RobbinsFor moments. It's still got the clouds coming... Or here in the mornings and then it clears out in the afternoons. Typical June. But when it clears out, it's, it's quite warm, yeah.

0:33Jawad MirYeah, that's good. That's good.

0:34David RobbinsYeah.

0:34Jawad MirI'm glad to hear that. I'm glad. Otherwise, you've been okay?

0:38David RobbinsOtherwise good, yeah. My daughter got married, last week and…

0:42Jawad MirAll right. Congratulations. How'd that go?

0:44David RobbinsOh, man, it was, it was beautiful. It was really something. It was great. I,.. One of the best days of my life obviously, but really good. Yeah.

0:59Jawad MirI bet. Was it, like, an outdoor small intimate wedding, or?

1:03David RobbinsIt was small and intimate, about, I guess about 50 of their best friends and, cl… and family, you know? And

1:12Jawad MirRight

1:13David Robbins... It, was indoors and outdoors. It was at this kind of strange eclectic old, I guess it was a sportsman's lodge or something and ha… has all this taxidermy on the walls and stuff, and..

1:32Jawad MirRight

1:32David Robbins... It was right down her alley.

1:35Jawad MirWell, that's, that's pretty much how it's supposed to be, right?

1:38David RobbinsYeah. Completely alternative

1:41Jawad MirYeah

1:41David Robbins... Wedding, but it was great.

1:43Jawad MirYeah.

1:43David RobbinsExactly the way they wanted it.

1:45Jawad MirI'm, I'm glad to hear that, man. That's fantastic. Congratulations again.

1:48David RobbinsThanks. Thanks.

1:51Jawad MirWell, I did see the film, your brother's film with your work in it, Cradle will, Cradle Will Rock. I... It wa… it was a very good film and it was just incredible how it just felt like what's happening in the world today.

2:10David RobbinsYeah. It's,.. One thing that Tim is very good at is, just his instinct is, tends to be, tends to turn out very prescient. And things happen, you know, history happens over and over it seems. But, hopefully someday we'll get it right, but...

2:35Jawad MirYeah

2:35David Robbins... Not these generations.

2:38Jawad MirYeah. And what I found fascinating was, I mean, in the context, I mean, there were so many things in the film, right? Like, there was about, obviously communism, capitalism. It was about, art. It was about unions. And I mean, you hear now about, unions news in the news nowadays, like, you know, with Amazon and Apple and all that stuff. But one thing that actually really struck the chord, which was obviously the main film, but obvious… you know, at the same time being artists ourselves, is how the life of an artist is affected by all these policies of censorship, right?

3:18David RobbinsYes.

3:18Jawad MirAnd you have, and you have, you have all these group of people who are trying to find work and they, you know, secretly, you know, trying to get inside a play, and they're talking about these important things. But you have this other character who's communist, he's an artist too, but he's being sought after too. So it was, it was interesting parallel. There was an inc… interesting discussion.

3:39David RobbinsYeah

3:39Jawad Mir... And, your involvement in it, David, what was, what was the process of you starting to work on it? Was it similar to other films? Talk about that.

3:51David RobbinsWell, what's, what's interesting... Well, one of the things is that this was originally going to be done, before Dead Man Walking and, but he couldn't get the budget he needed for this. So… ... Dead Man Walking allowed him to get a higher budget for this. And so I did some of the initial research, which I'm bent to do, of, kind of immersing myself in music of the day, the '30s, the Depression

4:26Jawad MirRight

4:26David Robbins... In all the styles of, you know, all the, genres of music that were, in and, in a lot of ways still are in New York City. And got, you know, these pockets of all these different ethnicities and, groups of, immigrants and, you know, first time immigrants and, people just trying to, you know, make a life for themselves, you know? And

4:58Jawad MirSure

4:58David Robbins... And you also have these, this entrance into people fleeing Europe at, during the Nazi… ... Growth and, development and threat. And so you've, and you've got that looming thing going on in this movie that this war is, you know, it's, it's not here yet at, in, during the course of the movie. But the movie does... Tim did, compressed time with this movie for dramatic reasons and for storytelling, but it encompasses several years and there's a lot of history in this and true history and true characters, not all of them, but the…

5:50David Robbins... The important ones, you know, are, and the others are imagined of what could have been a character like the industrialist and his wife… And, you know, and the actors, or, a lot of them are based on the real actors that actually participated.

6:10Jawad MirOh, okay.

6:11David RobbinsYeah.

6:13Jawad MirOkay. And…

6:14David RobbinsAnd, so that's how it started.

6:15Jawad MirGo on.

6:16David RobbinsAnyway, that's, I started with all this research and, then it was tabled for a while. We did, Dead Man Walking. A couple years later, this got green-lit and, so I revisited that. I also, started, getting involved in, with Tim in picking parts of the play, The Cradle Will Rock, that Blitzstein wrote.

6:47Jawad MirYeah.

6:47David RobbinsThat, is kind of the central core of this movie and the, and the, climax of the movie, is involved with this, the making of this and how it went down. And, which is a great story unto itself, and he's, you know, there's, he's weaving all these stories together in a, in a very rapid way sometimes. And, so it was basically over the course of a year and a half I was involved in development and pre-production and production and post-production. So it was all of those elements because we had a lot live recording of the actors and, excerpts of the play and then the score, afterwards, which I took all of that, stuff that I learned and just let it sit in my brain during all of this and, then what came out, came out, you know, as a, as a, an influence of that music.

7:59Jawad MirRight. The film has such a big star cast, right? I mean, I… ... One of the things that really, just as a comment, I, it's, it's obviously the first few minutes, maybe even the first 30 seconds are very important in any film…

8:17Jawad Mir... To pull you in, especially nowadays, right?

8:19David RobbinsYeah.

8:19Jawad MirWhat I loved about the opening of the film is that how i… it kinda reminded me how Spielberg does a lot of coverage in, you know, the way the characters are moving from one spot to another, and another one comes into the frame, or the d… camera dollies up or cranes up. It was just such an immersive way of bringing the audience in, and I wa… I was really hooked, you know, from the very beginning, just introducing characters and the environment that they're in and the surroundings. In terms of your research that you talked about, what kind of music, even though if it was before Dead Man Walking, were you listening to or you pulled it from inspiration-wise, or what kind of composers that you got inspired by to bring in your voice into the music as well?

9:13David RobbinsWell, there was a lot. It was, it, the music itself ranged from, Balkan to, Germany. Italy was a big influence, you know. You know, Nino Rota's work really was compelling, to me. And, Fellini, in, you know, and his work kind of lives in that world, too.

9:52Jawad MirSure

9:53David Robbins... And, there was, you have the Jewish movement, the Jewish, music. You've got the Spanish, Puerto Rican. You have, and, Cuban, you know, that all... One of the, one of the treasures I found was this group from Cuba called the La Quana Cuban Boys, and, I don't know how I found it, but it was, it was like these guys had disappeared from the face of the earth, basically. I mean, that's what it seemed like. And it was just a treasure of stuff. There was also the, what are they called? The harmonists, the comedian harmonists from Germany who used to play in cabarets, and they were very funny and really, you know, '20s and '30s period.

11:02David RobbinsAnd then their last album or two or, you know, or r… recording or two that they did was basically mostly different characters because the guys that were in the group, all kind of fled, you know, because of the Nazi threat and, it was not funny. It was like, it was depressing. It was really depressing to hear it. But, in… Anyway, all the stuff, you know. Plus a big element is, jazz, from…

11:35Jawad MirRight. Right

11:36David Robbins... Small band jazz from the '20s and '30s, which I just ate up. And, everybody, you know, from... Oh, God. Also, yeah, Yip Harburg who, was a lyricist, I believe, with... And he wrote, you know, the lyrics to, Wizard of Oz, for instance, but he had a lot of…

12:03Jawad MirOkay

12:03David Robbins... Influence in the jazz world as well and in the popular music as well, and wrote some really crafty songs and, so I basically listened to as much as I could find from the era, no matter what the, genre was. The, you know…

12:23Jawad MirSure

12:23David Robbins... The music. There was this, Antheil, I think the... Yeah, the composer's name was Antheil. And he wrote this composition that was recorded live, I think, in Carnegie Hall… ... In the early '30s, and it was, all... It was like a zillion pieces of percussion, but also, like, 20 pianos, something like that and, you know, all sorts of noises made on the pianos, plus playing and lots of percussion, and it was just amazing and, really took a lot from that as far as, you know, inspiration. It was just a wonder to hear that stuff. And, you know, there was so much progressive music being written and performed then in that era.

13:21Jawad MirRight.

13:21David RobbinsThat it was just a rich minefield for me.

13:26Jawad MirYeah, no, I bet, and I think that's... Sometimes it's a blessing, but it's a curse too, that when you have so much, so much stuff available at your fingertips, it becomes difficult, not just in music, you know, even when you're writing a script based on history, what to, what to pick and what not to pick. But, the music, the... What I loved about the music in this film was that it stood out, but it didn't, if that makes any sense.

13:54Jawad MirThat it was, it was not in your face, but it was kinda driving the story, and you don't notice it, but you will notice it if the music was taken out.

14:05David RobbinsRight.

14:05Jawad MirSo i… i… it was done very, subtly, and I... And it served the story, which it's, which, what it's supposed to do.

14:14David RobbinsYeah

14:14Jawad Mir... Your... When you said, you know, this was going to be before Dead Man Walking but it ended up being after, has... Was there any… anything that you ended up learning from Dead Man Walking, whether it was instrument, whether it was a beat, whether it was a type of music, whether it was even, like, literally some elements of a track that went into this or before you were researching for this that went into Dead Man Walking?

14:44David RobbinsIn a sense, yes, in the, that, the awareness of world music and, folk music in particular from everywhere in the world, that I... You know, anything I could get my hands on. But I think what you mentioned about the score is it was always my goal, the chief goal was to create b… the music become a character of the movie…

15:20David Robbins... Another extension of the movie, without obviously being in your face, as you say. I'm, I'm…

15:25Jawad MirRight

15:25David Robbins... Glad I took that from it because it was, it was a lot of question again that went back to what I learned d… in D… Dead Man Walking was the art of scien… of, silence, you know? And how powerful you can make it if you don't overuse your craft and if you don't overthink it. As far as the meshing of, what to use and what not to use, it was really kind of more impulsive. It was... I wasn't listening to any of this except for the Blitzstein work

16:06David Robbins... During, all of later pre-produ… pre-production and, production. It was... I ingested that stuff before, and I just... It let it germinate in me.

16:21Jawad MirRight.

16:22David RobbinsAnd, take in the experience of all of this, story and production and, the characters. And, you know, I have to say it was,.. There were two elements in the score that, were the key to it, and it was clarinet and violin. They were the lead instruments for the most part. And…

16:50David Robbins... And their... The percussion was a very important part of it. But, I was able to,.. Well, three, actually, three musicians, the percussionist, too. His name was Mino Cinello, who was an fantastic percussionist. The clarinetist was, Paquito D'Rivera, who was a legendary, clarinetist and, just had that improv and just that fluidity that was perfect for the, for capturing the time period. Also, the violin was a very young, Andrew Bird, who…

17:39David Robbins... His first work, his first albums were, really kind of an homage and, had this l… '30s feel, you know? And he played that way in his early stuff. I mean, he's grown and morphed a lot of what he does now. It's, it's, it's different, but back then, it was... That's what I heard him do. And, I was able to get him to come in the studio, and Paquito and Mino, and, Those were the keys. And, basically with, all of them, I gave them a framework and it's, it's like what I like to do when you get, you know, top class musicians, you give them a framework. You give them a, you know, you give them the, basic melody line, but it's not, "Don't..."

18:40David RobbinsIt's not, "Play this," it's, "This is your guide. Go where you will."

18:45Jawad MirYeah.

18:45David RobbinsYou know?

18:46Jawad MirYeah.

18:46David RobbinsAnd they did, and they took it and they all just wrote it for all it was worth. And you've got Andrew and, Paquito in the same room, you know, playing with 30 pieces of musicians and strings and, percussion and,.. And it was, it was just a wonder and it was, it was just that moment in time capturing that was, an amazing thing to experience. And

19:27Jawad MirI bet. I bet.

19:28David RobbinsYeah.

19:29Jawad MirI bet. And I think one of the things I really like about what you do, and I hope everybody... I mean, there's a lot of people who do this and no matter whether they're in direction or music, but it's kind of gotten away now. When you find really talented people, it's obviously they need a sense of direction, where, what do you wanna do? But when you leave people to their own discretion, to their own creativity, they always naturally find a way to excel themselves because they have to make a point to themselves and obviously the person who they're working for, and it always produce immense results. I mean, that's the pattern that I've seen in the work that I do, and obviously in the, you know, you read about it in the news. But micromanagement can probably get you so far, but, it doesn't really open up doors for creativity.

20:20David RobbinsCertainly. And, you know, I mean, it was... We've got, like, 30 some odd players in that room and, all union, which was great. And, in New York, and, that obviously had to be orchestrated and, written and that was the bed with which the soloist got to work off of.

20:50Jawad MirRight.

20:50David RobbinsAnd it worked out great. And, David Campbell, who, has done several orchestrations for me and, helped with arrangement, I mean, I learned basically everything about arranging from him, you know, I mean, just…

21:06David Robbins... From listening to his work. He's just a fantastic, gentleman and, who also happens to be the father of Beck.

21:18Jawad MirOkay

21:18David Robbins... And, David is, one of the best. He was like, that guy would be at the Grammys every year s… with, like, a handful of nominations for sweetening of rock tracks, pop tracks, stuff like that. He'd be the... He's like the A-list with that, was, like, amazing. Guy was a genius. And, so, you know, there was that structure built into that, and that was already done before anything was put on tape. And but with the soloist, that's where it all kind of shines and has that, freewheeling aspect to it and…

22:06Jawad MirYeah

22:06David Robbins... It never fails to surprise me, you know, if I just let people go, you know? And

22:14Jawad MirSure

22:14David Robbins... Give them, give them a direction and, urge them on, you know, do more of this, less of that, blah. And, it always has a surprising result and, I would never do it any other way really.

22:29Jawad MirSuper cool. Super cool. Do you remember reading, I mean, yes, it's based on a play. Had you seen the play before it even became an idea for a film where you wrote the script…

22:41David RobbinsNo

22:41Jawad Mir... Came out?

22:42David RobbinsNo.

22:42Jawad MirOkay.

22:43David RobbinsIt, I never saw a production of it. And there have been several, but mostly were earlier, you know, before my time as far as… ... You know, nothing current when I was…

22:56Jawad MirSure

22:57David Robbins... In that, in that, period of time that I was working, have been working and started working in, movies and theater. But there were recordings, you know? And, listening to, listening to them was m… a lot about what not to do, you know? They, unfortunately. I mean, there were some good stuff and moments, but it was, you know, that was another important element that Tim basically, had cast all of those singers and actors that, were Broadway people.

23:46David RobbinsAnd had all, you know, they all had incredible singing voices. He had, you know, living in New York, he would go to plays specifically to listen to hear people and get to know them and, you know, everybody from Audra McDonald to, God, several of the others which were just fantastic and, put them together and we had this whole period of, pre-production where, We, had rehearsals of…

24:26David Robbins... The, a lot of the pieces in the, in the play. And, kind of from that we whittled down what we were gonna use, what we may use. You know, we'd have the A list and the B list and all that of, s… songs and parts of it. And they rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed, and then we re… prerecorded, their singing with the stripped down instrumentation, which was the, how the thing played out where a lot of the musicians backed out from this kind of, wild… wildcat type of, idea of going to a dark theater, because they were padlo… you know, the original theater was padlocked…

25:11Jawad MirYeah

25:11David Robbins... By the feds, which had never happened before. And, but we prerecorded all of what you see as far as the music and the singing. However, we, played only the music part of it, the piano in a lot of ca… just the piano in a lot of cases, and some with the three or four musicians that were, doing it. And, they all had the, microphones, the Broadway type microphones with the ear wigs in them so they could get the playback in an invisible piece in their ear.

25:55Jawad MirRight.

25:55David RobbinsAnd, they performed all of that singing that they did in that whole climactic section of them doing this runaway production in a, in the dark theater, not on stage… ... In the audience. And ... And that was all recorded live. All of th… those vocals were live.

26:18Jawad MirWow.

26:19David RobbinsYeah.

26:19Jawad MirThat's amazing.

26:20David RobbinsAnd the piano was prerecorded 'cause... And Hank Azaria is one of the am… most amazing, mimics, I've ever seen. And he was so dedicated. He'd ha… he could not play a lick on piano. He had... He never played a piano.

26:42David RobbinsBut he... We've photographed the piano player, filmed him, or, videoed him playing all of this stuff that ended up being what we see on screen and hear on screen. And, he went over that video over and mimicked the hand movements, and he was so precise about it was scary when it, when it came time to film it.

27:12David RobbinsAnd, plus he's doing the, acting and the, and the telling of the play and, in that whole section at the a… at the end in the theater. And it was a luxury to have that for editing and stuff. I mean, it was... It really worked well. It was, it was incredible.

27:36Jawad MirIt did.

27:36David RobbinsYeah. That was r… really fun, and he is like one of the funniest people I've ever met. Guy had me on the floor, many times during the course of the making of this movie.

27:50Jawad MirWell, that's, that's the idea, right? When you're working, you gotta have fun, and when you have fun, good stuff, good stuff comes out, so.

27:57David RobbinsOh, yeah. And, Cary Elwes and, Angus Macfadyen are also, to this day, you know, we see each other every now and then and talk to each other every now and then. But Cary is so funny, and he was, also very generous with his, with other actors and with me, and we would just go, sometimes go on these banters back and forth and just ridiculous stuff, you know, just, shooting the shit, so to speak, and

28:34Jawad MirYeah. Yeah

28:34David Robbins... Very funny. Very funny and, very smart and a very good person. And, I mean, all of these people were a joy to work with really. John Turturro, you know, fantastic.

28:47Jawad MirA huge cast.

28:48David RobbinsYeah.

28:49Jawad MirJack Black, Susan Sarandon…

28:51David RobbinsBill Murray

28:51Jawad Mir... Emily Watson, Bill Murray.

28:54David RobbinsAlso, Ruben Blades, who played,.. Geez. The artist.

29:07Jawad MirOh, right.

29:08David RobbinsDiego Rivera.

29:08Jawad MirYeah. Yes.

29:09David RobbinsDiego Rivera.

29:10Jawad MirYeah.

29:11David RobbinsAnd

29:13Jawad MirJohn Cusack, Joan Cusack.

29:15David RobbinsYep.

29:16Jawad MirYeah.

29:19David RobbinsWho else? Cherry Jones was, the one who played,.. She was another Broadway actress, who played the, he… the woman who ran the theater project, the, for the WPA.

29:42Jawad MirOh, was she the one, in Mission Impossible, the very first one?

29:46David RobbinsI don't…

29:46Jawad MirIs that…

29:46David Robbins... Remember, but probably. I mean, she's done a lot of film work and, really, you know, one of the top people in, on Broadway too.

29:59Jawad MirYeah. I'm, I'm just trying to look her up on IMDb. I'm pretty sure it's her because I was... Is it Vanessa Redgrave? No.

30:05David RobbinsOh, yeah. She was in it.

30:06Jawad MirYeah.

30:06David Robbinshuh.

30:06Jawad MirYeah. But that's the one from Mission Impossible. She was in the first Mission Impossible.

30:11David Robbinshuh.

30:11Jawad MirI heard her voice. I couldn't recognize her. I'm like, "Where have I heard that voice?" You know? And it took me a long time to figure out who she was. But yeah, I mean, it had a huge cast. I mean, some of the names we already mentioned, but, there was, Victoria Clark, Aaron Hills, Daniel Jenkins, Paul…

30:31David RobbinsThose are…

30:32Jawad Mir... Giamatti.

30:33David RobbinsYeah

30:33Jawad MirKyle Gal… Gass.

30:35David RobbinsWell, there's also…

30:35Jawad MirI think…

30:35David Robbins... Emily Watson

30:37Jawad MirYeah. Bo… Bob Balaban, who was the NBC president in Sei… Seinfeld.

30:42David RobbinsYep.

30:42Jawad MirAnd, yeah, it was, Hank Azaria, for people who don't know who that is, he did all the voices in Simpsons for, like, the p… police chief and Apu and…

30:55David RobbinsYep

30:55Jawad Mir... All the other guy characters. But, you know, I wish this film made 24 years ago is pretty much where we are as a society are heading right now. And one of the things when a society crumbles, the first thing and the last thing that is holding it against from crumbre… crumbling it is freedom of expression and art.

31:22Jawad MirAnd art. And, you know, we see that now in Hollywood. You know, you see people getting canceled, you see films getting not made because you ha… has to have this and that. And I…

31:36David RobbinsSure

31:36Jawad Mir... And then but when that happens, it's as bad as that is. The good thing that comes out of it is more creativity, and that's what this film is about. And, you know, I just hope that these, I hope that this film is shown to people in Hollywood, also at college campuses and university campuses because art is a form of expression. Yes, it may offend people, and it probably will, but doesn't mean that you have to you know, take down the world with it. And that's how you expand your horizon, and you learn more about society. And I mean, it resonated so much. It's funny, probably wouldn't even have resonated four years ago. That's how much our society has changed in four years.

32:16Jawad MirSo you know, w… what, did you, did you see it recently again, or…

32:21David RobbinsOh, yeah

32:22Jawad Mir... Take it from the beginning?

32:22David RobbinsI see, I saw it,.. It's actually been a couple years since I've seen it, but we, there was a screening that, we did in, Santa Monica ... That, it was really good to see on the screen again, you know? I mean, it was,.. And it holds up. It does hold up. And…

32:45Jawad MirOh, for sure

32:45David Robbins... You know, I mean, you mentioned art, the compromise of art, and, that's a lot of what the play is about. You know, it's a, it's also about the bravery of, in the story about, is the bravery of these artists.

33:00Jawad MirYeah.

33:00David RobbinsI mean, these people were part of the WPA, and they were getting, you know, I don't, $20 a week or something in pay. And, it was a government-run, widespread, thing that was, to put people back to work. And, you know, you hear this, thing that Orson Welles says at some point. The character, or,.. He says, "Well, this is better than pouring slag." And, you know, pouring slag in the, in, back in the '30s was like, you know, the worst job but sometimes the only job you could get. So…

33:47David Robbins... It was like, you know, anything from that is better, you know?

33:50Jawad MirYeah.

33:51David RobbinsAnd, the, there's that one song in the play called Art for Art's Sake that we do, in there that speaks to what you just said as far as the compromising of art. And there's also that kind of juxtaposition in part of the story where, Mathers, the industrialist, and, Susan Sarandon's character, Sarfatti, who is selling Italian art to these, you know, to these fat cats, you know, like, Rockefeller and, this guy, this fictional guy Mathers based on, people of the day…

34:39Jawad MirYeah

34:39David Robbins... Shall we say. That, and one of her lines is, "It's a shame," 'cause she's, she knows she's wasting that art, but she's doing it for the money, so, you know, to get Mussolini what he needs, you know?

34:58Jawad MirYeah.

34:59David RobbinsAnd, it's a s… I forget the line, but it's, it's a beautiful line. It's, it's sad to see the art, the classic arts slip away.

35:16Jawad MirIt is.

35:16David RobbinsYou know, something like that, yeah.

35:17Jawad MirAnd one thing that I really ig… I mean, there were so many realms to this film and the depth to this film, but one thing that stood out the most for me is there was a... I mean, you talked about it just now too, when the government funds the art, right?

35:35Jawad MirThe problem with that is that, and I, you obviously probably remember this. In, you know, let's say in the 1980s or specifically after the Gulf War, the first, the first Desert Storm, in 1991… ... There were so many films made that criticized the government's stance, like Three Kings being one of them. I mean, there were…

35:58Jawad Mir... So many of them. But when the government is actually funding for art, then they can dictate what needs to be said and what not doesn't need to be said, right? And that's, and that, and that's where the... And that happens in Hollywood too. Like, depending on who's on what political side, they can…

36:16David RobbinsYeah

36:17Jawad Mir... You know, the produ… producer can say, "You can't do this," or, "You can't say that." And that's where art dies. Like, if you are being told what to do, what not to do because you're s… gonna tick people off or the government is not gonna like it's over. Art is finished. And that's why it's so important to keep it completely independent, which is why Hollywood was so successful for the longest time, you know, 30, 20, 30, 40 years.

36:40Jawad MirAnd now we're going back to pretty much what this film is about.

36:43David RobbinsYeah. It's, it's, it's, it's really a shame, in a lot of ways. By the way, you had mentioned the opening sequence where it drew you in. That's, Tim's homage to Robert Altman, because there, it's basically one shot…

37:09Jawad MirYeah

37:09David Robbins... In its entirety from the beginning…

37:13Jawad MirIt's a…

37:13David Robbins... And following, Emily Watson's character.

37:16Jawad MirYeah.

37:17David RobbinsAnd, passing one to another, and you see, Hazel Hofmann putting posters for me… meetings, you know, you know, and goes from here to there. And then when, and through, Emily sneaking into the back of a theater, right? And, well, actually she's in the theater and she wakes up and she's putting on a… her clothes and her shoes while s… you see this reverse in the side of the reverse of the screen that they're doing, they're screening in the theater of a newsreel, right?

37:57David RobbinsAnd so you're getting all this information. That's all one shot, right?

38:00Jawad MirYeah.

38:01David RobbinsAnd then, it goes, it starts a second one in that brief moment where she's being thrown out and she's running out of the theater because someone discovered s… she was there.

38:16Jawad MirYeah.

38:17David RobbinsAnd she goes through the door, the exit door, into the alley, and there's this moment of black where another s… one shot happens for the rest, you know, f…

38:28Jawad MirYep

38:28David Robbins... Right up in, you know, up, down the, down the street up into Mark Blitzstein's apartment where he's writing on the piano.

38:38Jawad MirYep.

38:39David RobbinsSo…

38:39Jawad MirAnd Robert Altman being one of them, I mean, the reason I mentioned Spielberg is because I obviously have sort of grown up with his work, but he borrows from Altman, he borrows from Orson Welles, and you know, it's, it's, it's definitely, what Tim did in that opening scene was just... I'll tell you this, the way... I have multiple monitors and sometimes depending on my time and whatnot, I will have a film playing, you know, on a side monitor and see how it, if it engages me or not. If it doesn't, I switch to a TV. And it got me so quickly that in a matter of 55 seconds to a minute, I just shut down the monitor, I went to my TV, and I started watching a bit.

39:20David RobbinsYeah.

39:20Jawad MirI mean, so, you know, you know, that's the beauty of it, and then Tim did a fantastic job in that.

39:24David RobbinsYeah.

39:24Jawad MirAnd it was not just for the sake of doing it actually introduced you to the world and the characters and what they're going through.

39:32David RobbinsYeah, exactly. And, I, that was, that, first reel was done on the first day… ... Up in, the Bronx, and, I was there for that. That was ... Something to see. The Steadicam guy, h… with the full on, you know, gyroscope going, which is really is difficult to do for a guy. He has to be in really good shape.

40:03Jawad MirYeah.

40:03David RobbinsAnd this guy was in really good shape. And there was about, he had to take a break after every shot just to recover.

40:14Jawad MirI bet.

40:17David RobbinsBut…

40:18Jawad MirI mean, nowadays it's a little bit different where they pass on the gimbal to the second person or third person depending on the shot…

40:24David RobbinsYeah

40:24Jawad Mir... And all that, right? So…

40:25David RobbinsYeah

40:25Jawad Mir... But yeah, no, it…

40:28David RobbinsPlus you got, you got drones too.

40:30Jawad MirThat's, there was a really good shot, I'm trying to remember the scene. It was, I think, I forget the character's name, the one who was, the communist, artist. It was…

40:42David RobbinsDiego Rivera.

40:43Jawad MirYes, Diego.

40:43David RobbinsYeah.

40:44Jawad MirHe was, it was in a really, you know, big building and there was these steps, and the, one of the characters was going down the steps and the camera follows him. He's trying to climb this ladder or something, and then the camera shifts over and it goes all the way down to the stairwell almost to the ground. I was like, "That has to be the longest crane in the world." Like, it was just done such…

41:07David RobbinsYeah

41:07Jawad Mir... In such a way where it didn't seem gimmicky. Like, it, because he w… it was corresponding to that character, and that's what's…

41:13David Robbinshuh

41:13Jawad Mir... So wonderful about it.

41:14David RobbinsYeah, that was, that was a, that was not the actual, but it was Rock… he was representing Rockefeller Center…

41:24Jawad MirYeah

41:24David Robbins... Where he was commissioned to do this mural. And Rockefeller didn't like it too much As it turned out. And I just love it, you know. It's like the, in the center of the, of the mural is this pic… depiction of a syphilis cell over, very rich people, right?

41:51Jawad MirYeah.

41:51David RobbinsMoney people in the, as part of this incredible mural. And Rockefeller ends up, you know, as you know in the, in the movie, he ends up, having it chipped away because you can't just paint over that 'cause it'll…

42:05Jawad MirYeah

42:05David Robbins... Leak through, right? So he has the whole thing chipped away, and the guy, and it just, that slow in on the only thing left that's not chipped away at this point is that syphilis cell.

42:21Jawad MirYeah.

42:21David RobbinsIt was brilliant. I just loved a lot of stuff that Tim did on that, and it was, he was really…

42:27Jawad MirNice

42:27David Robbins... In his element with that.

42:29Jawad MirHe is so good. I mean, we talked about this, a few weeks ago about Silo, right? Even his… ... Per… I don't know if you have seen it yet, but…

42:39David RobbinsI've started seeing it, yeah. I've, I'm up.

42:42Jawad MirYeah.

42:42David RobbinsI'm, I've caught up.

42:44Jawad MirYeah, so I'm pretty much g… all the way caught up. I think the last episode comes out on Friday, and they announce season two. And his performance, it's in there minimum, but… But every time he shows up, he has this persona. I mean, it's his height too, obviously, but his performance and his persona and charisma really pops out because besides, it just, it just works, and he's just such a good actor. I mean, and obviously Shawshank being one of them, but to have him direct a film like Dead Man Walking and then Cradle Will Rock, very different films, but at the same time very similar because they are talking about... It's a debate about what's, you know, one was about the execution, whether it's right or wrong. The other one is more about arts and capitalism versus communism. And he really find, has this eye for tackling things in a very meticulous way, and I... It's very rare for an actor to do that.

43:45Jawad MirI think the only actor that can direct really well is Ben Affleck. And that's about it. So, you know, phenomenal work he's done.

43:53David RobbinsYeah. I agree, and I'm very lucky to have, to b… been in a great working relationship with him for pretty much all of our adult lives, you know?

44:05Jawad MirYeah.

44:06David RobbinsAnd, you know, he did, a play. He talked about the first Gulf War, when that was happening. We did a play that he wrote and we put on at our old theater location in Hollywood… ... Called Embedded, and, it was a, an amazing take on, the war and the compromise of journalism in the war and how they were, tools, became tools of, the government, you know?

44:48Jawad MirYeah, it was propaganda.

44:48David RobbinsPropaganda. Yeah.

44:49Jawad MirExactly.

44:50David RobbinsAnd it's, so it's kind of about that and also the cabal of people that are, you know, representative of the people in the government, and they, every time they're on, they're in, commedia masks and, completely, it's outrageously incredible, funny as hell, but with that other, those other messages in it…

45:17Jawad MirYeah

45:17David Robbins... You know, artfully done. I mean, ended up taking that to the public theater in New York too. That was fun.

45:25Jawad MirWhat was it called?

45:26David RobbinsIt was called Embedded.

45:27Jawad MirEmbedded.

45:27David RobbinsHe actually made a film of it. And it's, I don't know where you can find it, but I can find out. But it's

45:36Jawad MirWhat is it called?

45:36David RobbinsIt was just a film of the, of the play in, the public theater, right? And they had a few cameras, and

45:43Jawad MirOh, I see. They did a recording of it. I see. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

45:47David RobbinsYeah.

45:47Jawad MirYeah, I mean, if you find it, s… send it over. I would love to, I would love to see it, and I think the... It's, it's so funny, we, you know, we talk about news and propaganda is that I remember when the Gulf War happened, I was, I had just turned into a teenager, and it was the first time ever, I mean, in history, but for me it was the first time, the way they broadcasted war live. Like especially CNN's rating went through the roof because of that initially, right? And it was because the way the media feeds you and as a young kid, you find it fascinating 'cause, you know, if you're into like all these tanks and these planes and all that stuff. I would, I had this thick of a folder, like a binder with clippings from different newspaper article every day for the n… for the course of three months, which chronolo… And I would tape, I would glue it on a white piece of paper, and it would like chronologically document what was happening.

46:49Jawad MirAnd then when I, you know, turned about 17 and 18, I realized that how completely I did not understand the other side. And that's, and that's, and that's what's happening in the world right now still. Like, you know, young people…

47:05David RobbinsExactly

47:06Jawad Mir... F… they fall for that kind of stuff, and it's, and…

47:09David RobbinsWell, it's, it's, you know, it's like they call it war porn, you know?

47:14Jawad MirExactly. Yeah.

47:15David RobbinsIt's, that's, and that's the way they're, a lot of, they're presenting the war in, Yugoslavia.

47:24Jawad MirYeah.

47:24David RobbinsAnd, it's, it's like i… it's a, it's a difficult subject, but, and you know, you can debate right or wrong about it, but I think essentially war is, a tragedy, you know?

47:41Jawad MirIt is. And then…

47:41David RobbinsIt's a f… and it's a failure

47:42Jawad Mir... It's a failure. There's no winners or loser, no matter who claims who won. I mean, ask the people whose kids have lost their lives or, you know…

47:52David RobbinsYeah

47:52Jawad Mir... People who, the civilians who have died. There is no vic… winner in war.

47:57David RobbinsNo.

47:57Jawad MirThere's always a, everybody's a loser.

48:00David RobbinsYeah.

48:00Jawad MirAnd yeah, I mean, I, you know, you can argue that you need to go to war because this and that, whatever. That's a different discussion, but…

48:08David RobbinsYeah

48:08Jawad Mir... But at the end of the day, it's just, it's sad. I mean, look what happened in the invasion of Iraq. Like millions of people died, and there was no weapons of mass destruction.

48:18David RobbinsYeah. It's, it's always an indicative of,.. I think a lot of it is, you know, what Eisenhower warned against, the industrial…

48:29Jawad MirYeah

48:29David Robbins... Complex. The military industrial complex.

48:30Jawad MirMilitary industrial complex. Yeah.

48:32David RobbinsYeah. It's gotta be fed.

48:35Jawad MirAnd sadly, we all benefit from it too, you know?

48:39David RobbinsYes. Unfortunately, yes. God.

48:44Jawad MirAnyways, we're going a little off topic here. But that's what's fun about this podcast. You know, you can talk about anything.

48:53David RobbinsYeah. True.

48:53Jawad MirAnd, I... So how are you liking Silo?

48:57David RobbinsI really like it and, you know, Tim came in for a hot minute to be at the wedding. So, we talked a little bit about it. I, you know, I had... I said, you know, for one thing I said something about Common's character and

49:14Jawad Mirhuh

49:14David Robbins... And how this guy is gonna, you know. And he, you know, he said, "Yeah." And he said, "Where do you see m… my character next season?" He goes like this, he goes...

49:32Jawad MirWell, I would second that because that's all I'll... Yeah, I won't say anything. I don't wanna spoil it for you, but yeah, the things happen in this season that I can see setting up his character…

49:44David RobbinsYeah

49:44Jawad Mir... In a really different way. And it was an, it's an incredible series. I mean, I rarely get hooked onto them, a series like these. It's very rare, but it's... Maybe it's because the world that we live in, it kinda has a resonation with COVID and all that stuff. But…

50:00David RobbinsYeah

50:00Jawad Mir... But, fantastic, and Tim is awesome in it. Anything you're working on now, David?

50:06David RobbinsNo. I'm, I'm, what I'm doing is I'm, I'm kind of focusing on, some songwriting right now.

50:17Jawad MirOkay. Cool.

50:17David Robbins'Cause, you know, the industry's not doing too much these days, at least…

50:21Jawad MirYeah

50:21David Robbins... You know, for me. And

50:23Jawad MirYeah

50:23David Robbins... And, you know, I keep busy with theater. We're doing open workshops, which are, workshops that we do at the theater to train the actors in Commedia and, mask work and things of that nature. And, except we're opening it up to the public once a month. And it's... We had our first one, last month, and it was just fantastic. And I'm, I'm working, I'm doing kind of what I haven't done in a long time, which is, percussion, various different types of percussion, melodic and, not, that is basically marking, you know, hitting points, with what the actors are doing, you know? And I don't know what's coming. They don't know what's coming. It's like it's just…

51:17David Robbins... It's like all…

51:18Jawad MirSpontaneous

51:18David Robbins... Improv and of the moment. And this is with an audience watching it. And, it was so much fun to do it, and it's kind of like where I cut my teeth with this type of performance, that, you know, I just learned so much from it. And, it's, it's a lot of fun just sometimes to just, like, work in that you have to be present at every second and you don't plan anything, and that includes the actors. It includes me. You know, it's just like whatever I have at hand can be used, you know? And, sometimes I, set a pace. Sometimes I'm, mostly I'm following, you know? And it's just so much fun to do, and it's such a, it's a rigorous discipline for everybody. And, so we're doing that once a month y… at the theater. And, so that takes up a little of my time, and plus, we're waiting for,.. I've got another upgrade that I'm doing as far as the sound system there that

52:29David Robbins... We got a grant that includes some equipment that once the, some, the soundproofing, which is part of the grant, is done, then I'll be installing and setting all that…

52:43Jawad MirSweet

52:43David Robbins... Stuff up. Yeah. It's, that's fun stuff to do. And we got a play coming in, August, that's our outdoor once-a-year, Shakespeare mashup for kids, out in…

52:57Jawad MirOh, i…

52:57David Robbins... The park outside the theater. It's, it's free, and people come and spread their blankets and watch it. And, it's, it's basically, a Shakespeare play but mashed up with, a kids thing like, you know, like a kids story.

53:17Jawad MirYeah. Yeah

53:18David Robbins... You know? And

53:20Jawad MirWh… wh… where would it be, just so that, people are listening?

53:23David RobbinsIt's Culver City, and it's,.. Our theater is called The Ivy Substation, which is right where Culver Boulevard and Venice Boulevard meet. It's... And… ... In front of the theater is, this park called Media Park.

53:38David RobbinsAnd we have it out there. And, I don't, I don't play on that. I get to do my sound man stuff 'cause they have…

53:53Jawad MirThat's…

53:53David Robbins... All wireless microphones and stuff, and I…

53:56Jawad MirYeah

53:56David Robbins... It's fun. You know, I, that's kinda like what I used to do way back when. That was my first stuff…

54:02Jawad MirWhen you were starting out

54:03David Robbins... Was being an audio engineer.

54:07Jawad MirYeah, it's amazing how…

54:07David RobbinsAnd a sound man on the road.

54:09Jawad MirIt's amazing how life comes at a full circle, right? But…

54:12David RobbinsYeah, it does

54:13Jawad Mir... Hey, you know, as long as you're enjoying it. And it's, it's good to do different things because, you know, when you're just i… in that one world nonstop you end up repeating yourself, and you need to have a little bit of this, a little bit of that.

54:26David RobbinsYeah

54:27Jawad Mir... One last question then, David. Is there a specific genre that you would like to tackle that you haven't tackled yet in terms of… ... Composing the music?

54:36David RobbinsGood question. I don't know. That's a good question. I ha… I don't have a good answer for you right off the top of my, tip of my…

54:50Jawad MirThat's okay. Now I got you thinking.

54:54David RobbinsYeah. Really. I, you know, one thing that I do enjoy is… not sticking o… to any one thing. You know, I'm not a formula person

55:07Jawad MirYeah

55:07David Robbins... Per se. And, you know, the directors that I have worked with, have for the most part given me, a certain amount of freedom to experiment with ideas, and kind of form a palette of the instrumentation, as that development happens in post, you know? And, not to just go automatically to, one way, you know?

55:41Jawad MirYeah.

55:41David RobbinsI'm a, I'm a la… I'm, I'm... I've been given some freedom most of the time, and time to do it, which is not... You don't get all the time.

55:51Jawad MirNo, you don't. No, you don't

55:53David Robbins... But, I suppose I would,.. Oh, God. Is that…

56:03Jawad MirHorror?

56:04David RobbinsHuh?

56:05Jawad MirHor… I said, would you like to do a horror film?

56:08David RobbinsYes, I would.

56:09Jawad MirLike a script. There you go.

56:10David RobbinsActually, that's a very,.. That's a good point. I have not done one, but, the, there's, there's possibility that there's a director that I've worked, done two movies with, and he's writing a movie, and all he's, all he said last time I talked to him, he's, he wants me to, "Think about this. Horror."

56:33Jawad MirThere you go.

56:35David RobbinsThat was all he would tell me. That's, that's down the road a piece, and there's a, I'm gonna be meeting with a gentleman, a director, who's shooting right now in Chicago, I think it is, and… ... He's heard my stuff. And, haven't met him yet, but, we're gonna... He's gonna be out here after, and he's gonna show me some footage of it, so that might be my next thing. We'll see.

56:59Jawad MirFantastic.

56:59David RobbinsYeah.

57:00Jawad MirFantastic. Well, can't wait to hear about it, next time we chat, and looking forward to speaking to you again, man.

57:07David RobbinsYou as well. Thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate it, and

57:11Jawad MirNo

57:12David Robbins... It's a lot of fun for me.

57:13Jawad MirI, no, I loved, I love speaking to you. It's, it's fun, so we'll do it again, I'm sure.

57:18David RobbinsVery good.

57:20Jawad MirAll right. Take… There you go. Great little rock. Awesome.

57:23David RobbinsAll right.

57:24Jawad MirPerfect. Thank you, David. Take care. Bye-bye.

57:25David RobbinsAll right, take care. Bye.

57:27Jawad MirI hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for watching and listening. Don't forget to subscribe, like, share, and comment, and do come back for another episode. Until then, have a great day.