'Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes', Film Review, Jawad Mir & Ethan

0:00Jawad MirAgain, builds onto the previous scene about that whole element of should I trust this ape or, you know, should I not? That to me was very human.

0:09EthanMy favorite thing was probably Raka.

0:12Jawad MirI'm not gonna name the name of the character that shows up later in the film. He was phenomenal.

0:17EthanThey teased in Rise, I thought they were gonna bring that back in this one. As the apes escape, a news, boy is delivering newspapers, and it says, "Spacecraft lost in space."

0:39Jawad MirSo I just finished, watching Kingdom of Planet of the Apes.

0:42EthanYeah.

0:43Jawad MirI was very surprised, in the sense that it was better than I expected because normally sequels, like a first sequel kinda like just for a generic movie falls apart, but this is like the third sequel, and it's... Like I think I was watching on Rotten Tomatoes. I think the first one was 82, then the next one was 92, then 95, and this is 85. That's pretty…

1:08EthanYeah

1:08Jawad Mir... Pretty solid.

1:10EthanIt's, in the, I think, one of the most underrated franchises in the last 20 years. I think, every entry is consistently great. I think, personally, I do think this is the weakest, but the bar is so high that it's, it's still great.

1:38Jawad MirYeah. And I think I know why it's the weakest among many, a few things. I think the main element which I didn't realize until the ending was in terms of the number of human characters.

1:54EthanYou think 'cause there's not that many human characters?

1:57Jawad MirYeah.

1:57EthanYeah.

1:58Jawad MirI think, and I think the one that's there, maybe I gotta see it again. I wasn't too crazy about her performance. I forget her name.

2:06EthanAre we using s… is this, are we getting right into spoilers or?

2:10Jawad MirYeah. Well, we can talk about the names. We can talk about the names.

2:12EthanOkay. So Mae was her real name.

2:15Jawad MirOkay. Yeah. I just thought, maybe that could've been a little bit better. Maybe it's just my initial reaction. But what I loved about it the most that you are so, just like any other Planet of the Apes, you're so, they're so realistic in terms of facial expression, right? Like obviously with motion picture technology.

2:34EthanYeah.

2:34Jawad MirMotion cap… motion capture technology. That you're, you're hooked from the very beginning into these characters. And I mean, you forget about Caesar pretty quickly.

2:46EthanYeah. I mean, I love that they gave you that little, moment right at the beginning with

2:54Jawad MirYeah

2:54Ethan... His funeral. But then I think Noa was a great, follow-up character to Caesar. I, he, I was completely invested in his journey, his growth. I thought, Raka, the other ... The orangutan…

3:13Jawad MirYeah

3:13Ethan... Was amazing, especially 'cause I think, like, everybody is always... There's always, there's always, like, the wise orangutan in all the movies. The Maurice was in the original trilo… Well, not the original trilogy, but the three before this one. And, yeah, he was, he was great. And I was really invested in the characters. I wish they…

3:40Jawad MirYeah, can I... Sorry, go…

3:41EthanOh, sorry

3:41Jawad Mir... Go on, please.

3:42EthanI was just…

3:42Jawad MirNo. I, go ahead. No, it's fine

3:43Ethan... I wish they used Proximus Caesar a little bit more 'cause I thought he just was such a great villain, and his ideology was, so well realized, with twisting Caesar's, ideology that yeah, I would, I would've loved to see him more. I don't think he's gone. If we get another movie, I'm, I'm sure we'll see him again.

4:10Jawad MirYeah. You know, speaking of, Maurice and, what was his name in this film? Ra… Raka? Raka, right?

4:18EthanRaka. Yeah.

4:18Jawad MirYeah. Kinda like Obi-Wan Kenobi from Star Wars, like the, or Yoda, you know, the one…

4:24EthanYeah

4:24Jawad Mir... That kinda speaks wisely.

4:26EthanYeah

4:26Jawad Mir... And they did really carry the film, Raka and Proximus. And as well as, I'm not gonna name the name of the character that shows up later in the film. I mean, he was, he had a very small part, but he was phenomenal. I mean, he really…

4:43EthanYeah

4:43Jawad Mir... Was pretty good. In such a little time his character was developed so well.

4:48EthanHe was great. Unexpected.

4:51Jawad MirYes.

4:52EthanVery surprised. I think I was expecting this character or this actor to be an ape. So to see, the, wh… what it ended up being was really…

5:06Jawad MirYeah

5:06Ethan... Interesting.

5:08Jawad MirYeah

5:09Ethan... Yeah, it was, that was a great surprise. I think while I would've loved to have seen more of her, I did think the surprise with Mae, the h… main human character…

5:22Jawad MirYeah

5:22Ethan... Was really great. I don't know if you saw the final trailer that they released before you went to the s… to see the movie.

5:33Jawad MirI may have. I mean, I know I've seen two, but I don't remember them vividly.

5:38EthanOkay. 'Cause there was one, the last trailer that came out r… maybe a few days ago basically gave away the biggest reveal in the movie.

5:49Jawad MirOh, really?

5:50EthanYeah. Like… Yeah. And then gave away the movie from start to finish. It moved through act one, two, and three, and gave away such a huge twist that I can see Audiences have, 'cause, the CinemaScore came out and it was a bit low from audiences. And I k… and I was speaking to a few family members who had seen it, who are not in the industry at all, and they were a bit underwhelmed. And h… they had seen that final trailer.

6:27EthanAnd I think gave away a lot of the surprises in the movie. And I can't believe they released that. I just can't... Yeah, it was…

6:40Jawad MirI didn't see it then, but I, it's an interesting thing that you brought up. I had this conversation once with, long time ago in one of the early episodes with Don Burgess, who… ... Was cinematographer on Cast Away, What Lies Beneath, Contact, like, mainly Robert Zemeckis films.

6:57EthanRight.

6:57Jawad MirAnd you probably are not old enough to remember when Cast Away came out.

7:03EthanNo. I…

7:04Jawad MirOkay

7:04Ethan... No.

7:05Jawad MirSo Cast Away came out winter of 2000, and What Lies Beneath came out summer of 2000. They're both by Robert Zemeckis, and they, so what, the way they shot it was th… have you seen Cast Away and What Lies Beneath?

7:20EthanI've seen Cast Away.

7:22Jawad MirOkay. So the way they shot Ca…

7:23EthanBut not What Lies Beneath

7:24Jawad MirWhich you sh…

7:25EthanThat was both before I was born. They both…

7:27Jawad MirWhich you must watch. It's an incredible film, What Lies Beneath.

7:30EthanLies Beneath? Okay.

7:31Jawad MirYeah.

7:31EthanOkay. Yeah.

7:31Jawad MirBut the story with Cast Away was that he went, I think he, one way or the other, before he gained weight… ... And then they shot, they shot, like, all the parts where he had his, gained his weight, and the crew went to shoot What Lies Beneath and they shot, like, losing the weight afterwards. But if you see the original trailer of Cast Away and they use the music from Braveheart, they literally show him come back and when Helen Hunt opens the door at the very end and they look at each other, and they even show the last shot of the crossway.

8:04EthanNo way.

8:05Jawad MirRight? Like the... Yeah. They actually show it. And I remember, 'cause I used to run a website at the time so I was very thoroughly evolv… fol… you know, following all the DreamWorks films, their marketing. Like, I was very heavily invested into it. So one of the things Robert Zemeckis said, when they asked him, like, "Why did you choose to do this?" He's like, "Audience want to know what they're going into even if they think they don't."

8:30Jawad MirAnd he was so right because from the box office standpoint, domestically the film made over 250 or 260 million.

8:40EthanYeah.

8:40Jawad MirSo it's, going to that element, I think sometimes people, I know a lot of people who don't wanna watch a movie until they know that it has a happy ending.

8:51EthanI…

8:51Jawad MirRight?

8:52EthanYep. Yep.

8:54Jawad MirSo…

8:54EthanAs much as I don't agree with that, I do know those people.

8:58Jawad MirYeah. There's, there's a lot of them. There's a lot of them.

9:00EthanYeah.

9:00Jawad MirAnd I think maybe they were tapping into that, but I agree. Spoiling, you know, I'm, my, one of my friends, you met Roger, right? Like the one who was DP?

9:08EthanYes. Yeah.

9:09Jawad MirHe doesn't watch any movie trailers. Zero. Nothing. He doesn't…

9:14EthanSmart

9:14Jawad Mir... He goes into a movie with absolutely no knowledge whatsoever.

9:18EthanHe's smart.

9:19Jawad MirYeah. He is. I…

9:20EthanI try to go in, I try to not watch past the first trailer.

9:25Jawad MirYeah.

9:25EthanOne trailer and then I, luckily I saw this trailer after I saw the movie.

9:32Jawad MirYeah.

9:32EthanAnd I just, I couldn't believe it. I w… I, yeah, just how much. I think there's, there's a balance. Audiences wanna know what they're getting in for, but then it's like

9:45Jawad MirYeah

9:45Ethan... Abigail that just came out.

9:47Jawad MirYes.

9:47EthanWhere kind, a, I think a big thing was the trailer giving away that huge reveal in the movie of, the character being a vampire, and I think it would've been amazing had there been another surprise in that movie.

10:07Jawad MirYeah.

10:08EthanBut that was kind of it. So you kinda, you're giving away the biggest surprise. But I think this movie has so much visually that's amazing, and I do think the story, it feels innovative and new, but also it hearkens back to the original…

10:31Jawad MirYeah

10:31Ethan... In such great ways that it's like n… it has that perfect balance of nostalgia and, something new for the audience with new characters and a new... I lo… I love that it takes place in Los Angeles. You get to see the Griffith Observatory and some…

10:51Jawad MirYes

10:51Ethan... Scenes which is great. Which also hints back at the space aspect of the original movies. Yeah, the, what did you think of the visuals? The world building?

11:08Jawad MirI loved it and I think my main assessment is that I was, despite the fact it has some weaknesses, I was so heavily invested that I didn't really... I was paying attention to the visuals, but I wasn't.

11:23EthanYeah.

11:23Jawad MirRight? Which is the way I think it's supposed to be, that it doesn't overshadow the story and the characters.

11:29EthanRight

11:29Jawad Mir... But it, but you're right. Like, I love the way it sets up the future films, which I was reading somewhere, I may, I may have dreamt this, but I read it I think, that the studio al… always had nine films in the, like, they were gonna plan on doing.

11:44EthanThat I…

11:44Jawad MirSo this is probably…

11:46EthanI just read that.

11:47Jawad MirYou did? Okay. So you did read that then.

11:48EthanYeah. No.

11:50Jawad MirYeah. Okay.

11:50EthanI just read that they're... So I guess this would be four out of nine.

11:54Jawad MirYeah.

11:55EthanThat…

11:55Jawad MirSo this is the second trilogy and then I think they're probably gonna make... You know what I wonder? It'd be interesting if this one is about the humans taking the planet back to some degree, and if the last trilogy sets up on, in, another, on another planet

12:13EthanWell, I think... Well, now that I know they're doing nine, I think, I do think that last trilogy, if this is set 300 years from the first trilogy, which it is…

12:23Jawad MirYeah

12:23Ethan... Because the original movies are, like, so far in the future. They're in, I think they take place in 3500…

12:34Jawad MirYeah, I think so. Yeah

12:35Ethan... Timeline. And so this would be 300 years from, like, 2000 and…

12:42Jawad Mir3978.

12:44EthanYeah. So I think if that third trilogy goes even further into the future, we'd be catching up to tho… the original movies, which I thought these movies were gonna do, but now that I know they're doing nine…

12:57Jawad MirNine

12:57Ethan... Movies, they're gonna take their time with that. So I'm sure we'll explore these 300 year, this 300-year arc with Noa for the next two movies now. And then we'll, we'll move, which I hope we get. I hope we get the next, which with the opening weekend, I think we will. The opening weekend…

13:20Jawad MirYeah. Well, that dictates the next films too, right? Like, how far are they gonna go doing well? I mean, if the next two films box office-wise tank…

13:30EthanYeah

13:31Jawad Mir... Then they may never happen, or may not happen for a while at least.

13:34EthanYeah. Like, it…

13:36Jawad MirYeah. But what was your favorite, I wouldn't say part, I guess part. What was it, what was a favorite thing about the film? Like, whether it was characters, a scene, visuals, or music, or visual effects, production design.

13:58EthanI think, my favorite thing was probably Raka. I thought he… ... Was such a great character, and I'd say... 'Cause I was thinking between a moment, and I think it was just that entire second act when you were with Noa and Raka, and they were learning about Caesar, or he, Noa was learning about Caesar, and those, his teachings. And then you get some surprises with the human character and, I don't know, I just thought all of that was super moving, was interesting. You think s… it, i… i… it slowed down, but in the best way for me.

14:43Jawad MirYes.

14:44EthanAnd I thought that was great. And I loved the introduction of Proximus Caesar too, but I think that second act would be my favorite. That scene where Raka is about to go off and just be with the humans, and they say goodbye for a moment, I thought was just a great spin on the original movie and was like…

15:07Ethan... A positive spin on, like, some negative... Not a negative in terms of it was bad, but just, you know, some sadder moments in the original movie of seeing humans and... But, this, it was just seeing a positive character, in the movie. I really liked that part. What about you?

15:30Jawad MirYeah, no, I couldn't agree more, and I think for me, the two things that stood out the most, were a little bit unexpected because you would figure in a story like this where there's two characters who are trying to build trust on each other, w… and you know who I'm referring to, right?

15:48EthanYes

15:48Jawad Mir... Mae and, Noa.

15:50EthanYeah.

15:50Jawad MirAnd towards the last act, something, I'm not gonna reveal what it is, you know, that big thing happens with the gun, right?

16:00EthanYes.

16:00Jawad MirAnd the follow-up with that, I wasn't expecting that. I liter… like, bec… but that's the most human thing to do because as human beings, you know, forget apes, we would probably look out for ourselves even if it…

16:12EthanYeah

16:13Jawad Mir... Means, you know? And then the very last, scene, I wouldn't tell this the ra… just before the wrap-up of the film when they meet, and then she's hiding something behind her.

16:28EthanYep.

16:28Jawad MirThat was unexpected, which I, again, builds onto the previous scene about that whole element of, should I trust this person or this ape or, you know, should I not? So that's, that, I, that to me was very, you know, c… just human. Like…

16:46EthanYeah

16:46Jawad Mir... I think that I connected with the most because normally in movies you won't show that. Like, everybody's like, kinda like, "Oh yeah, you know, we're friends now. Let's go."

16:54EthanYeah.

16:54Jawad MirBut that was, that was pretty cool. I thought that was very really nicely done. And what's so cool about this film and all the other films, I actually saw the original trilogy again with my kids in the winter.

17:05Jawad MirLike, one weekend, second weekend, third weekend, and they all, including this one, even though... I forget, I know the first one was directed was m… by Matt Reeves, who's one of my favorite directors. Did he direct also the second and third one?

17:19EthanNo.

17:19Jawad MirI should…

17:19EthanSo he directed only the second and third one.

17:22Jawad MirOh, he directed the second and third one.

17:23EthanYeah.

17:24Jawad MirThe first one was…

17:24EthanIt was, some Rupert…

17:27Jawad MirYes. I'm mixing it up

17:28Ethan... Guy.

17:29Jawad MirBut even though it's different directors, different writers, I just find it's like they have figured this template out, and even in this film, it just felt like it was this... I'm, I'm not trying to take away from anyone's direction, but in terms of just the consistency of the way the story was told, you know, it's like watching a series essentially, right? Like, it's one ep… episode after the other.

17:54EthanI think that's exactly what it feels like. The tone is so consistent. The…

17:58Jawad MirYeah

17:58Ethan... The story is so consistent. I think throwing in the opening they did just even adds to that consistency.

18:07Jawad MirYeah

18:09Ethan... And you're right. That f… for three different directors in a four, a franchise now with four movies in this iteration… It feels like it's all m… kind of been made by the same team…

18:24Jawad MirYeah

18:24Ethan... The same person. But I think they each have that, like, personal flourish from each of the r… directors. I can see Matt Reeves' influence. I can see Wes Ball's influence on this one, especially coming from the Maze Runner movies. This, a lot of the greenery felt like those movies, seeing all the buildings…

18:49Ethan... Like, covered in plants and vines and everything. But that, I think that you don't see that a lot other than with the MCU, which has been… ... Teetering off in that way of the connectivity. You, don't really see franchises, movies that connected anymore, especially now it's been seven, eight years since War, came out.

19:21Jawad MirHas it been that long?

19:24EthanSeven years. 2017.

19:27Jawad MirWow. Yeah, it doesn't seem that long.

19:28EthanYeah. Seven years. It's, so it's, I think they made a great choice by setting this 300 years in the future, but even so it feels like it's…

19:41Jawad MirYeah

19:41Ethan... Perfectly connected to that. Yeah.

19:45Jawad MirHave you ever seen the Tim Burton one?

19:47EthanI've seen... So I wrote, an article for Cineplex, recapping or kinda going through the entire franchise back from the original. I watched... So I've seen all of them.

20:01Jawad MirOh, you've seen the original ones too?

20:03EthanI've seen all five of the originals, yeah.

20:05Jawad MirOkay. Kudos to you.

20:08EthanThank you. Yeah. But yeah, so I've seen the Tim Burton one. It's a, it's a movie.

20:16Jawad MirYeah, you know, it's, it's, Mark Wahlberg wasn't as big as then. He is probably now. Obviously, he's not, you know, he's not Tom Cruise equivalent in terms of audience puller. But, that movie, one of the most amazing things about that film, everybody was looking forward to it, I remember. It was like a big deal.

20:37Jawad MirYou know, there's no, there's no motion capture, right?

20:39EthanYeah.

20:39Jawad MirIt's all makeup. Like, Eric Roth, I think it was, that played the lead ape.

20:43EthanYeah.

20:44Jawad MirI mean, it, the fact that they were able to…

20:46EthanTim Roth

20:47Jawad Mir... Was it? Who was it, sorry?

20:48EthanTim Roth.

20:49Jawad MirTim Roth. Not Eric Roth.

20:50EthanYeah.

20:50Jawad MirEric, yeah. I've got my names mixed up. Yeah, I mean, that movie didn't do well. It tanked. It wasn't that great. But the makeup in that film was phenomenal. Like, I mean…

21:05EthanPerfect

21:05Jawad Mir... What, 24 years ago, and now we're doing motion capture, right?

21:10EthanYeah.

21:10Jawad MirSo it's, it's incred… That's the one thing that I... You know, Tim Burton when he was directing it, I remember everybody was so excited because Tim Burton, it's Tim Burton, right? You know, he's done…

21:18Jawad Mir... Batman. He's done so many incredible films. But yeah, that was a missed opportunity, but I think because of that missed opportunity came out something much better which is the ones that we're talking about. And for me, the best one so far is the very first one. W… there's War of Planet of the Apes, there's Kingdom of Planet of the Apes, and then there's, what are the other two called?

21:41EthanDawn is the second and Rise is the first.

21:44Jawad MirRise. Rise is the, my favorite one.

21:47EthanRise has a very special place in my heart.

21:49Jawad MirYeah. I think it's because there's that element of, you know, human connection and it's our world and how... It's kinda like in, you know, in a way, like imagine when COVID happened, right? I mean, it's essentially a virus, like how the world changed. Obviously, ours didn't change in that, you know, same capacity, but still it was very special, especially the friendship between Caesar and, James Franco character. It was

22:15Jawad Mir... It was really cool.

22:16EthanYeah. I love Rise. It, I saw it in theaters when I was pretty young when it came out.

22:26Jawad MirYeah

22:26Ethan... And it blew my mind. Like, just, I remember the last third act and I never had expected to feel so invested

22:37Jawad MirYeah

22:37Ethan... In a relationship between a monkey and a man. But it was a great movie, and I'm with you. I know everyone loves Dawn and says that's their favorite, and I think Dawn is great, but I think Rise is probably also my favorite in the franchise.

22:56Jawad MirYeah.

22:56EthanYeah.

22:56Jawad MirYeah, no, it, the, it's, it's an incredible film. And the one with Woody Harrelson, that's the last one, right?

23:02EthanThat's, yeah, War. Yeah.

23:04Jawad MirWar one, yeah. That was good, too.

23:06EthanYeah.

23:06Jawad MirActually, it's funny. I was trying to remember the second one. I couldn't remember the second one in my head. What was that about? Who was it? Like, that's how the first... I guess that's tells you which ones I probably connected with more.

23:16EthanRight.

23:17Jawad MirThe first and third. The second one was about... Well, who was in it? Remind me. I know it will just go, you know, jog my memory. Was it

23:28EthanThe human?

23:29Jawad MirYeah.

23:30EthanIt was, Keri Russell and, oh, who was the guy? I, Malcolm was the, his name.

23:38Jawad MirOh, Jason Clarke was in it…

23:39EthanJason Clarke

23:40Jawad Mir... And Gary Oldman. Gary Oldman, yes.

23:41EthanGary Oldman.

23:42Jawad MirNow I, now I remember. Yeah, that was good, too. That was good, too. But, you know…

23:46EthanKoba was the, from the first movie, from Rise, he was the main…

23:52Jawad MirYeah

23:52Ethan... Antagonist in Dawn, which now has become a meme on Twitter. They've been putting Koba and saying every movie should have Koba in it, and they've been tweeting pictures of every movie and photoshopping Koba into the photos.

24:09Jawad MirWell, they can't bring him back, ma… unless it's about time traveling.

24:13EthanWhich I thought they were gonna do with this one.

24:15Jawad MirOh, really, you thought so?

24:16EthanYeah, I did. Just because, I knew they were setting up a trilogy, and I couldn't figure out how… They were gonna set up a different enough story going forward, and I sort of didn't get that clarification. I know a lot of people are saying, "I'm excited to see where it goes," but I didn't get a clear understanding of where they're taking it from here based on the ending. Which is exciting in a way because I don't…

24:47Jawad MirYeah, it is. Exactly. But you know, one of the coolest things about the first trilogy, when I... Excuse me, when I say the first trilogy I don't mean the original five films…

24:56EthanYeah

24:56Jawad Mir... With Tim Burton.

24:56EthanYeah.

24:57Jawad MirYou know, we don't talk about him much, Andy Serkis, right? Like, what a phenomenal actor. Now he's working on the new Lord of the Rings spinoff…

25:07EthanYeah

25:07Jawad Mir... I think I read.

25:08EthanYeah, the… ... Gollum movie.

25:09Jawad MirYeah. I mean, he brought Caesar to life in a way I don't think anybody could have done. Like… ... From voice to expression to emotions, you know? He is... And I missed him in this film, but at the same time, Noa was pretty much up there.

25:29EthanYeah.

25:29Jawad MirLike, if I had never seen, you know, Caesar played by Andy Serkis in any of the other films, like, he would still, he would be kind of like Caesar equivalent, right?

25:39EthanYeah.

25:39Jawad MirHe did a phenomenal job. Noa was great. Noa was... It took a while to get used to him, but especially when his ca… arc, like when he realize, when he has this conver… when the, he has this conversation with his mother in the last act and his, how his whole growth kind of goes to another level. Like…

25:57Jawad Mir... Then he feels like he's the leader of the clan, right?

25:59EthanYeah. Even, when he comes back, I think it's, his girlfriend or his, one of his friends, S…

26:08Jawad MirYeah

26:08Ethan... Suna, I think.

26:10Jawad MirYeah. Yeah, it is.

26:11EthanShe says, like…

26:12Jawad MirThere's a lot of names to remember.

26:13EthanYeah, a lot of names. She says, like, "You've changed," from, and you c… he's, you c… his journey is very clear. His arc, his growth…

26:22Jawad MirYeah

26:22Ethan... The movie is really clear. But I thought they introduced him in such a great way just with, the sequence in the beginning with the eggs.

26:33Jawad MirYes.

26:33EthanI thought that was just so smart and different, because it, you're watching it and you're like, "Okay, they're just getting some eggs." At first, I thought it was they were gonna eat them. Sort of when you find out what it's actually for.

26:49Jawad MirYeah.

26:50EthanI thought it was really great, and it feels low stakes but you feel so invested in the character just through this simple thing. That, yeah, I thought that was a great introduction to him and it felt like a, it just felt like a classic hero's journey…

27:08Jawad MirYes

27:08Ethan... Story.

27:10Jawad MirI just remember what she said to him, the character who was his interest in the film. When he is in the last act and someone comes to get him, and she just finished talking to him and she goes, "You're different."

27:26EthanYes.

27:26Jawad MirMeaning, you know, that little thing was like she picked up on something in him… ... That he probably didn't himself.

27:33EthanYeah.

27:34Jawad MirYeah.

27:34EthanAwoken the leadership and…

27:37Jawad MirExactly

27:37Ethan... "Oh, I can do this. I'm a, I've been, I've been through it."

27:43Jawad MirYeah.

27:44EthanYeah.

27:44Jawad MirWhat was your least favorite part that you would probably wanna see, you would prefer to have seen something else, whether it's performance based or anything else based?

27:55EthanIt would be story-wise. And I think it was the ending. I think the…

28:01Jawad MirReally?

28:02EthanYeah. I think the third act was the weakest part of the movie.

28:07Jawad MirOkay

28:07Ethan... It was building to such great things. And then I think it kind of tapered out a little towards the end. I think I expected a bit more from Pr… Proximus Caesar, the villain. I think he doesn't get sho… He's talked about a lot. He's almost treated like a, like a Jaws throughout the first two acts where you have his army. Not that you ever have Jaws' army in the movie, but…

28:37Jawad MirI get it, yeah

28:37Ethan... Just, yeah

28:38Jawad Mir... The unseen terror.

28:39EthanYou hear a lot about him. You're like, "Oh, he's..." And then I've, he was charismatic. He was great. But I ex… I wasn't scared of him the way I thought I was going to be. Like, I thought his gorilla jockey, henchman was scarier in the end than he was. So I would've liked to have either had him introduced a bit earlier or just seen him do something more intimidating. I thought his motivation was great. His, again, his ideology, twisting Caesar, was so interesting, and I just wanted to see more happen with it. That, I, that I'd say was the weakest part. And then the ending I thought was super, was interesting, but I would've liked to have seen it amounted, amount to a little bit more than what it ended up mount… amounting to with, what the main character was searching for.

29:41EthanOr not the main, the main human character… ... Was searching for. Yeah. I thought…

29:48Jawad MirI... Yeah, I think the ending itself I had no problem with. I really liked it. But the part about Proximus, it's interesting you mention that. So you know, you see in films like Gladiator or... I'm just trying to remember other names. That's, that's the only thing that came to mind. You know, when you s… when you're introduced with an, to an antagonist, right?

30:12Jawad MirYou, kinda like Jeremy Irons in Die Hard 3, or you see, you're introduced but to him and... Or Alan Rickman in Die Hard, the first one.

30:23EthanYes.

30:23Jawad MirI don't know if you've seen it.

30:24EthanYes.

30:24Jawad MirOkay, so that's a perfect example. Very charismatic, very articulate. They can like, he feels like a proper character, not necessarily a villain. And then he does something that scares the bejeezus out of you, like, holy crap, this guy's evil.

30:38Jawad MirSo when you said what you just said… I just remembered the scene where he's first is revealed, and he's standing, and he's pumping up everybody.

30:47EthanYeah.

30:47Jawad MirAnd there's a s… and there's a scene when the h… that involved horses, right?

30:51EthanYes.

30:52Jawad MirWith the p… the... And things don't work out the way they wanted it to, he wanted it to.

30:58EthanYeah.

30:58Jawad MirI really thought he was gonna do something to the ones that weren't able to pull it off. And then he sa… and then he said, "It's okay. There's tomorrow." I think if they…

31:08EthanThey'll try again.

31:08Jawad MirYeah. If they, if they had flipped it to that, him trying to either kill somebody…

31:14EthanRage.

31:14Jawad MirYeah, or…

31:15EthanGoing nuts

31:15Jawad Mir... Yeah, or just scare the crap out of them, you know, for the lack of a better word.

31:19EthanYeah.

31:19Jawad MirI think that you're right because I was expecting that, but I did... It... The way you, put it together was really well said that, yeah, he didn't do anything that was amount to a point where you fear this character.

31:31EthanYeah. He was... I was like, ah, he's obviously going about it the wrong way, but he's, you know, it's not... He's not, like, killing anyone who disagrees with him. Or he, you know, people... He had a nice conversations with Noah about their different opinions and…

31:51Jawad MirYeah

31:51Ethan... So it, which was interesting. But like y… I was saying and like you were just saying, like, if he would've snapped and just, like, had a moment that really just scared you and r… and, like, it... I think it would've taken the character a lot further. So I'm…

32:09Jawad MirI agree

32:09Ethan... I'm hoping we get that in a future movie. Or if this was just the introduction or, you know, you didn't, you don't... I don't wanna give away too much.

32:21Jawad MirYeah. I get it. I get it.

32:22EthanYeah.

32:22Jawad MirI'm hoping to, but at the same time I'm hoping not to because…

32:26EthanYeah

32:26Jawad Mir... But one of the things that, you know, I don't really watch Marvel stuff. I think the only Marvel movie that I've seen is Iron Man. That's it.

32:41EthanNo. I mean, that's one of my f… top three, four favorites.

32:44Jawad MirAnd then DC…

32:45EthanBut…

32:45Jawad Mir... Ones I've only seen the Christopher Nolan trilogy, which I don't consider a superhero movie in any way.

32:52EthanNo. I'm with you.

32:52Jawad MirAnd also J… Joker, Joaquin Phoenix one, which I don't consider a DC movie in any way. But the thing is with all those films, sometimes it just gets too much, right? It gets, like, everybody's coming back and y… because people like... And it's kinda like Jurassic Park, right? Like, there have been six movies…

33:10EthanYeah

33:10Jawad Mir... And now they're making a seventh one. I'll still go watch it because I love Jurassic Park. I love Gareth Edwards. But it's like how much further are you gonna bring back the dinosaurs or Proximus or anybody else over and over again?

33:23EthanBut to challenge that, do you always wanna be constantly just starting over with a new villain? Or do you wanna have some investment in a villain? Like, I think one of the biggest problems with Marvel that people criticized for a long time was that they're always killing off their villains that are…

33:42Jawad MirOh, really?

33:43Ethan... Are, yeah, that are starting to be interesting. At the end of the movie they're always killing them off and you're like, "Why would you kill off that character? He could... You could set him up to be the Joker to this Batman," or whatever, and they, and they don't. Like, Cate Blanchett in Thor: Ragnarok, or Killmonger in Black Panther. That... It's like you... How... You wanna be invested in the villain, in the, in the dynamic between the villain and the hero. So if they're setting Noah up to be a character going forward, it would be cool to see him face off against a villain that he has a relationship with versus... 'Cause now if we get into the fifth, sixth movie and every single time it's a new antagonist, you know, it might be nice to have someone you've seen and has a relationship. But I also agree that coming back and forth is a bit much. But I just think in this movie you never saw a body. So…

34:41Jawad MirTrue. You know…

34:42Ethan... It wouldn't, it wouldn't be like resurrecting someone from the dead.

34:45Jawad MirYeah. But what I would love to see, I wouldn't wanna see him in the next film.

34:50EthanThat's fair.

34:50Jawad MirI would wanna s… I would wanna see him in the film after.

34:53EthanAfter, yeah.

34:55Jawad MirBecause it kinda gives that, again, that enticement, right? Like, okay. And there has to be, whoever the antagonist is in the next film has to have some sort of relationship to Proximus…

35:08EthanYeah

35:08Jawad Mir... In some way. I don't know how. I'm not the writer of this series. But, you know, it's a just... I just feel bringing him... Kinda like Die Hard 1 was great, right? And Die Hard 2 was good, too, but Die Hard 3 was even better because…

35:24EthanRight

35:24Jawad Mir... You know, the brother of Alan Rickman's character played by Jeremy Irons. I mean, that just made it so much more... Again, that going back to the personal connection…

35:32EthanYeah

35:32Jawad Mir... Because it was through a brother. But that's been done so many times that I wouldn't wanna see that either. But yeah, we'll see. We'll see. It'll be interesting to see.

35:39EthanWe'll see where it goes.

35:40Jawad MirYeah. I'm interested in seeing that. Awesome. What's, what are you looking forward to next couple of movies in the summer or winter?

35:47EthanOoh, I've, Inside Out 2. I'm, I saw, I'm, it's, I saw the first 35 minutes of it and…

35:57Jawad MirYeah, I was supposed to be there. I had to go somewhere.

36:01EthanIt, I didn't love the first movie, but this one…

36:04Jawad MirReally?

36:05EthanYeah, I didn't. And I re-watched it and I liked it more. I know this is a unpopular opinion. I think it's more just... I mean, I saw it, I was, I was still, like, a teenager when I saw the first movie, but I just felt like I couldn't r… it felt so young already that I couldn't relate to it.

36:25EthanThis one feels timeless.

36:28Jawad MirYeah.

36:29EthanAnd relatable to any age. And so I'm really excited for that. A Marvel movie, I'm excited for Deadpool and Wolverine.

36:38Jawad MirOh, I saw the trailer for that.

36:40EthanYeah. I'm trying to think of something that's not…

36:44Jawad MirQuiet Place Day One.

36:47EthanQuiet Place Day One, very excited for that.

36:49Jawad MirYeah.

36:49EthanAnd If. I'm excited for If. I wanna see what John Krasinski does with a, with a family movie, speaking of A Quiet Place. But what about you?

37:00Jawad MirQuiet Place, Inside Out 2. I haven't been crazy about Pixar as of late. I think the last… ... Good movie I saw from them was Onward. I think that's what… ... It's called, right?

37:12EthanYes.

37:12Jawad MirWas it Onward?

37:13EthanThat was, that was right before the pandemic.

37:14Jawad MirYeah. Or, what was the other one with the one that was shot in... Luca. That was really good too. But after that, like they made Elemental, Buzz Lightyear, and a few others which I couldn't care less. I haven't even seen Elemental. I saw the trailer and I was like, "I'm not gonna bother."

37:29EthanI feel like Elemental underrated.

37:31Jawad MirBut this one I'm, but this one I'm interested in for sure. Quiet Place Day One looks great. I really wanna see Tuesday. I don't know if you've seen the trailer for that.

37:40EthanTuesday

37:42Jawad MirIt's star… it's by A24. It's, it stars, what's her name? Julia Dreyfus, the one who played Elaine from Seinfeld.

37:51EthanYep. Oh, incredible.

37:51Jawad MirSo sh… yeah. The, A24 makes amazing movies, right? Like Whale, Civil War. So this is about a relationship of her character with her dying daughter… ... And there's this giant parrot that is kind of like the wise of all, kind of comes in between their li… And it's obviously, you know, symbolic and everything, but it looks amazing. Watch the trailer.

38:15EthanYeah, I gotta wa… I was gonna say, that's also, has some, share some elements with Kingdom of Planet of the Apes with a bird that follows you around.

38:23Jawad MirYeah. This is a little bit different. This is more like f… it actually talks and gives you like all these…

38:28EthanOh

38:29Jawad Mir... Philosophical things. Even…

38:31EthanOh, wow

38:31Jawad Mir... Watch the trailer.

38:32EthanA Little Boy and the Heron.

38:33Jawad MirYeah. Yeah. Yeah.

38:36EthanYeah

38:36Jawad Mir... So that, Gladiator II, which I wasn't looking forward to until I found out that Denzel Washington is in it. And, what's his name? The one who was in Last of Us, the, God, he was in Games of Thrones too. Pop?

38:55EthanPe… Pedro Pascal.

38:56Jawad MirYeah, he's in it.

38:57EthanYeah.

38:58Jawad MirAnd then I was reading, at the, I think at CinemaCon they showed like 15, 20 minutes footage or something… ... And it was p… everybody raved about it.

39:07EthanYeah.

39:07Jawad MirSo I'm not looking forward to it, but I kinda am.

39:11EthanYeah.

39:11Jawad Mir'cause I loved the first one so much and, yeah, I think that those are the ones that come to mind, unless, I'm sure there are more, but those are the ones that sort of pop out.

39:23EthanThere's a new h… there's a horror movie coming out. I don't know, are you into horror?

39:27Jawad MirDepends. Which one?

39:29EthanLong Legs with, Nicolas Cage. It's a Oz Perkins movie, and the teasers that they've released have been probably some of the creepiest, most unsettling thing, things that I've ever seen advertised for a movie.

39:49EthanSo I'm excited for that, to see what it's all about. I think some early reactions came out saying it was, it was pretty good. And…

39:57Jawad MirAwesome, I'll check it out

39:59Ethan... Furiosa comes out at the end of the month.

40:02Jawad MirYes, that's right. Yeah. That would be, that would be really cool to watch. Yeah. At that, yeah, there's some good stuff coming. I'm not, yeah, Twisters, eh, I'm not really too crazy about it. I mean, I saw the new trailer. It was like an epic long trailer, 3 minutes and 10 seconds. But, I loved the original Twister. I'm not too crazy about this from the trailer standpoint.

40:24EthanI didn't watch the…

40:25Jawad MirBut we'll see.

40:25EthanI felt it. It looked too long. It looked like…

40:28Jawad MirYeah. I gave up after, like, a minute and a half. I couldn't finish it. Yeah. At, that's it. That's more or less it, but I'm sure there are gonna be some surprise ones that people are not expecting, and those are always the fun ones. Like Civil War I really liked.

40:45EthanYeah.

40:45Jawad MirYeah, so I'm, I'm really, you know, I talk about this many times to different people on the podcast is that the only studio now is, like, we're, we're, we're kinda going back to back in the '90s, you know. Independent cinema kinda started becoming very mainstream with Miramax.

41:03Jawad MirAnd now A24 is doing the same thing, and I think we need that because there's just, everything is, like, reboot or franchise or superhero. I wouldn't mi… I don't mind watching it…

41:17EthanWell, like…

41:17Jawad MirSorry?

41:18EthanYou're, you're getting a sequel, a prequel

41:20Jawad MirYeah. Like, which is why when I saw the trailer of Tuesday, I was like, "Whoa, this looks good." Like, it, you know, it was meaningful. Like, movies like Shawshank, Forrest Gump… ... Green Mile. I mean, there's Cast Away.

41:32EthanYeah.

41:32Jawad MirThere's so many of them. So, if you like war stuff, watch Masters of the Air series on Apple TV. That's pretty good.

41:41EthanYeah, it's, it's, I've heard that's amazing. I wanna start…

41:43Jawad MirYeah

41:43Ethan... Back at Band of Brothers.

41:44Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

41:45EthanI know people have to watch them in order, but I, there…

41:48Jawad MirYou don't have to, yeah.

41:49EthanThere's, there was a middle one, was there? Or…

41:51Jawad MirPacific, The Pacific.

41:54EthanRight. Right, yeah.

41:55Jawad MirSo Band of Brothers was on land, Master of the Air is Air Force. The Pacific is kinda like, you know…

42:03EthanMarines

42:03Jawad Mir... A mixture of, yeah, Marines and stuff. It's, I like Band of Brothers the best.

42:08EthanYeah.

42:08Jawad MirMasters of the Air was pretty good too.

42:12EthanYeah.

42:12Jawad MirI liked it. Yeah. The, I mean…

42:14EthanYeah

42:14Jawad Mir... There were some episodes I didn't, but, Sugar is really good, on Apple. I think it's finishing up this Friday.

42:21EthanYeah.

42:21Jawad MirWith Colin Farrell. And Dark Matter, that's interesting.

42:27EthanYeah, that's the…

42:29Jawad MirIt's kinda like the sliding door concept where parallel lives…

42:33EthanRight

42:33Jawad Mir... Are being lived by the same character. It has interesting surprises, like Jennifer Connelly is in it. Yeah, so I mean, there's some, there's some cool stuff. Actually, there's a, there's an Indian, eight-part series. It's called The Diamond Bazaar on Netflix.

42:52EthanOkay.

42:52Jawad MirI mean, you... It… this guy, his name is Sanjay Leela Bhansali. He's a, you know, born and raised, I think, in India or South India or Bangladesh, but he's been making movies in India for 25 years. And most, majority of the last 15, 20 years of his movies are, like, massive sets, like, to the detail. Like, you know, super wide shots, like, every single thing, and you will love this. It's, it's, it's has that, but it has inter… It's kinda like Shakespeare kind of dialogue.

43:20EthanReally?

43:20Jawad MirYeah. It's, it's really cool.

43:21EthanI've actually heard of this, the show. Her… Her… Hermandi?

43:26Jawad MirHiramanthi, yeah.

43:26EthanYeah.

43:26Jawad MirThe Diamond Bazaar. Yeah.

43:28EthanYeah.

43:28Jawad MirYeah, it's, it's about... Hiramanthi was a very popular, prostitute area in India before, independence.

43:37EthanOh.

43:37Jawad MirSo it was so popular that these prostitutes used to control the rich and the m… y… English, the British Army.

43:47EthanWow.

43:47Jawad MirAnd they had them in their pockets. Like, that's how powerful they were. Not because they had weapons or anything, just because of their... You'll see. Well, I recommend it. I mean, it has some weakness…

43:57EthanThat's cool. I'm gonna check that out

43:58Jawad Mir... But it has some amazing dot lines, and I hope the translation does justice. But, it's visually beautiful. The characters are very flawed and crazy.

44:10EthanAwesome.

44:11Jawad MirYeah.

44:11EthanThat's cool.

44:12Jawad MirGreat, man.

44:13EthanYeah.

44:13Jawad MirIt's been great chatting.

44:14EthanYeah, it was awesome. I was just gonna ask really quick before w… if there's…

44:17Jawad MirSure

44:17Ethan... What's one thing you're looking, you wanna, you would like to see in the Apes franchise going forward?

44:26Jawad MirI don't know, but I kinda th… I think we kinda touched upon it when we talked about the nine films.

44:31EthanYeah.

44:31Jawad MirI think, you know, I think the next two films are gonna be about... I would like to see, I shouldn't say a… are going to be about, because I don't know. I would like to see, like, a battle between humans and apes to regain Earth.

44:48EthanRight.

44:48Jawad MirAnd by the end of sixth film, if there is still… ... Another trilogy, somehow the apes and the humans, or the apes are on another planet and there's…

45:02Ethanhuh

45:02Jawad Mir... A battle to survive, or they are trying to... Or maybe Earth has completely, you know, diminished. Like, you know, you can't... It's, it's not livable, so everybody flocks to, kinda like, you know, Elon Musk's Mars project.

45:14EthanYeah.

45:14Jawad MirYou know, everybody flocks to the planet.

45:16EthanYeah.

45:16Jawad MirAnd now it's, like, a fight to regain that, you know, put a, put a…

45:20EthanWell, they teased in The Rise, I thought they were gonna bring that back in this one. There was a spaceship that went missing they teased throughout Rise to kinda hint at the beginning.

45:33Jawad MirReally?

45:34EthanYes. They show in the news footage at the animal shelter, or the ape en… enclosure, that they're sending a spaceship to Mars. And then…

45:44Jawad MirI gotta see that again

45:44Ethan... As the apes escape, a news, boy is delivering newspapers and it says, "Spacecraft lost in space," on the front. And so I thought they were gonna bring that back in some way, so it'd be interesting. And then, I don't know if you recognize, not a lot of people, I think, did, but Caesar's symbol was his window.

46:06Jawad MirYeah.

46:06EthanYeah.

46:06Jawad MirYeah. I did…

46:07EthanFrom…

46:07Jawad MirI did see that. Yeah.

46:08EthanYeah.

46:08Jawad MirYeah.

46:09EthanAnyways, yeah. There was just, there were some cool callbacks to Rise, and I hope we get to see some cool payoffs going forward.

46:15Jawad MirI gotta watch that on YouTube, about those. I mean, I may have picked it up, but I just don't remember…

46:21EthanYeah

46:21Jawad Mir... At all right now. But that's pretty cool.

46:23EthanWell.

46:23Jawad MirI would like... Yeah, that's what I would like to see. What would you like to see, just to wrap things up, with the, with the next five films, if there are five?

46:30EthanI think, like you, I would like to see some... I think we're at the point in the movie franchise where I know it's not as grounded as the movies have been, but I'd like to see some space, some time travel, some hearkening back to the original with an astronaut in some way. I don't think I can see six more films of just apes versus humans.

46:56Jawad MirTrue. Yeah.

46:57EthanI think it needs to evolve in some way, speaking of evolution. And so it might be f… out there, but I think, I trust the filmmakers, whoever's behind the movies, to do it in a way that feels natural to the movies they've already created. So that's where I'd like to see it go.

47:17Jawad MirFair enough. Sounds good, man. I'm looking forward…

47:19EthanYeah

47:19Jawad Mir... To the next films. And we'll do this again, about some film.

47:22EthanYeah.

47:22Jawad MirI don't know which one. We'll do it again. It was lovely chatting with you.

47:25EthanAwesome. Yeah, it was great talking to you.

47:27Jawad MirThanks, buddy.