'Sugar', Cinematographer, César Charlone

0:00César CharloneIt's an Apple series, but being in Apple, I said, "Could you give me a couple of iPhones that I can use on set?" And instead of a couple, they sent me 11. Most of the cars, of the car scenes that I am with Colin driving, the iPhone is very practical because I can put it behind the steering wheel.

0:17Jawad MirFilm and cinema relates to us in such a deep way.

0:21César CharloneIn The Constant Gardener, one of these screening for influential people, that Hillary Clinton tells one of her assistants, "We have to look into our chemical companies." To me, that was one of the biggest trophies that I got that I said…

0:35Jawad MirFollowing focus thing is probably the, if not the most toughest job on the set.

0:39César CharloneSensitive and beautiful acting from all of the actresses and actors. You are right, that is a very powerful scene. I remember shooting it and being very moved by it.

0:59Jawad MirEpisode Six for Sugar is out, right?

1:02César CharloneYes.

1:02Jawad MirI think it... Okay, so we can talk about Episode Six to start off with.

1:06César CharloneYeah.

1:06Jawad MirSo, you know, I was told about Sugar by Richard, who shot, some of the episodes of Masters of the Air, a few months ago.

1:19César CharloneYes.

1:19Jawad MirAnd, he told me about it probably in January or December, maybe, no, January, end of January. And I saw it come up and, you know, I started watching it. The thing that hooked me on right off the bat, being in the world of film, how there were such cool references to, you know, the films from the '60s, and it had that film noir type of approach to it. How did... What was your first reaction when you read the script of the pil… You did, just for the audience, what episodes did you, shoot?

1:55César CharloneI did one, two, four, five, and eight.

2:01Jawad MirAnd eight. So what drew you, or what was your first reaction when you started reading the, when you started reading the script for Sugar, the pilot episode?

2:10César CharloneI am not very much into police and, detective and this type of thing. I, my line of work is more, mostly more, political and kind of engaged, if you would say, or something like that. So I'm not very much into it. But from the very beginning, Fernando, made it a point that we made it look as real and natural as possible. And the fact that we were telling this very particular story about these aliens coming to Earth to save us, we had, we had to make it in a way that it would be believable. So we wanted, we want, m… the… what we talked with Fernando was that it should look as realistic as possible, almost kind of documentary style, in order to be believable.

3:21César CharloneAnd one thing that s… that, we had this, the fact that Sugar was so fond of cinema, that was in the script. But what came up when we were doing the series is, well, if he's an alien and he's so fond of cinema, he used cinema in order to understand how humans behave. So, you know... And that is something that came up whi… while we were doing it. We said, "Well, let's use film references as something that he learns our behavior." Because living somewhere far away, he grabbed in the internet or whatever, you know, films. That was his first contact with the human race, living, coming. So he knew us as humans through cinema, which I thought was very interesting.

4:23César CharloneAnd I said, "Well, that can be a very nice homage to cinema if we embrace that." And s… that is something that kept growing and growing. And Fernando Stutz, the editor, he is a great film, buff and study. So he started adding these little bits and pieces of film, which made it pretty complicated for Apple because they had to buy all the rights to these, and so on and so on. And that's why maybe…

4:52Jawad MirYeah

4:52César Charlone... A little bit too... But I think it was a great idea because it made, it made the audience see us through cinema. You know, it's, it's through cinema that, you know, we... Cinema is kind of like a picture of what we are, how we behave.

5:12Jawad MirRight.

5:12César CharloneSo, and you know, living here, for example, in South America, it's amazing how much, if you, if we analyze how much we get from the behavior of the films that we receive from America, from the big countries, you know? So yes, that was, being from an underdeveloped country, I thought it was very nice if cinema was, a way of teaching, a way of, you know... Because that's something that happens to us. We South Americans are kind of aliens and we learn how to behave in the first world by watching films and being…

5:58Jawad MirRight

5:58César Charlone... A little bit exaggerated. But, you know…

6:02Jawad MirNo, that is so true, and I think it's even that theory, in my view…... Can be applied to people who are movie buffs versus who are not movie buffs, right? I actually, I'm gonna go on a tangent here because one of the reasons, aside from many reasons, obviously, being in the film world, I was drawn to Sugar Ru… I'm not into detective stuff either. Like, I just don't care about stuff like True Detective, and it doesn't intrigue me, or cri… or, you know, re… real crime mysteries and stuff. But the... I was watching it, and the only thing that hooked me on was that references to the film. And I, directed a feature narrative documentary, which coincidentally,.. You shot City of God, right?

6:48César CharloneYeah.

6:49Jawad MirYeah. When I was, when we were in the editing stage, my film is called Citizen Amoria, right here, this poster.

6:57César CharloneOh, nice.

6:58Jawad MirAnd, it's, it's a narrative, it's b… it's a one man's journey, like an Afghan refugee's journey in a refugee detention center after he leaves his family behind in Afghanistan. We were trying to figure out the opening of the film, how should we hook the audience as opposed to just a journey, and somebody told me, "Watch City of God." And I, and I watched, and they said, "Just watch the opening, you know, just for the reference." And I watched the opening, the whole, the chicken scene in the streets, and…

7:31Jawad Mir... And that gave me the hook of about 70 seconds to make the opening of the f… my film. It had nothing to do with the s… you know, the story that you had, but just the inspiration.

7:42César CharloneOkay.

7:42Jawad MirAnd that film was about a filmmaker, too, and how his references to the film helped him through his journey to get where he wants to be. So film and cinemas relates to us in such a deep way. Very similar to books.

7:56César CharloneYes.

7:56Jawad MirBut they're so visual, right? People don't... I mean, I learn so much from cinema, like from, you know, really, whether it's powerful dialogue like Shawshank Redemption, lines or, you know, Forrest Gump, stuff like that.

8:10César CharloneYeah.

8:10Jawad MirAnd it's so important to our culture e… everywhere in the world.

8:14César CharloneYeah. And if you think of the new generations, these little kids, that they spend their whole time on cell phones watching, yeah, and scrolling and everything, it's, you know, it's, it's here. It's here. It's, i… it's, it's, it's our behavior being…

8:31Jawad MirIt is

8:32César Charlone... Shown. Yeah.

8:34Jawad MirYeah, it's remarkable. And I mean, I'm not gonna talk about episode, seven and eight, but I finished the series. And... 'Cause I was wondering how episode six ended, which is where we're, you know, reveal that, Colin Farrell, as Sugar, is an alien.

8:51Jawad MirAnd I was wondering, six episodes in, i… all of a sudden, we don't, we don't get any kind of a hint he's an alien. Okay, how is this gonna play out in the next two episodes? And I was kind of worried that is it just kinda tossed in there for the hell of it? Like, you know, you know when you're watch… first watching it, even though you're kinda blown away? But then I finished it and I'm like, "Ah." So it, I mean, for the... I'm not gonna talk about it, and, but just to kinda tell you, like, I actually felt initially, "Okay, there's no point to this. What just happened?" But it does connect afterwards. Just a comment. And…

9:27César CharloneYeah

9:27Jawad Mir... You know, phenomenal, phenomen… phenomenal cinematography, even some of the, you know, the camera shots where the camera was tilted and just, it just felt very real, as you said, a documentary approach.

9:39César CharloneYeah, that was something that we went after. And the other thing is, I try, my best to not interfere very much with the relationship of the actors on set. So I try to make it easy. So this way of shooting leaves them very free because there's, you know, we avoid marks and all those traditional…

10:03Jawad MirYeah

10:03César Charlone... Things. We just let them go around, and we follow them, and they feel much, you know... And it helps a lot for them, you know, to perform and everything because they just, we follow them, and they don't have to follow the camera. So that is something that I've been doing lately and, you know, to make it easier. Because for s… for a certain time, technique was something that was very, harsh and it would, it would change the way the actors related to cinema because they were, they had to be concerned with the mark and with the best light and everything. And that was limitating to maybe exposing their feelings or whatever. So now it's, it's all about, to me, it's all about them performing and let me follow them.

10:58Jawad MirThat's, that's, it's, that's a pretty interesting thing that you mention, right? Because you can do that in documentaries, right? Because you're literally following a subject in the real world at, with real consequences. But I know, you know, most actors, in general, they like, they want to know what's, where they need to stand, from here where they need to begin, where they need to end. You know, they seek that guidance from the director and the assistant director. So does that sometimes come up? They go, "I need to know where the mark is," because they're used to so much of following that kind of world?

11:34César CharloneYeah, maybe at the beginning they, but then when we start working, you know, when we're a little bit into episode one and they start, they start enjoying this, and they start finding it, you know, there's no mark. Go wherever you want. It's your acting. So, you know, they start getting accustomed to it, and they enjoy it. I find they enjoy it. And let me mention, since you mentioned City of God, this is something that we kind of discovered in City of God because the… The proposal that Fernando had for City of God was he was going to work with non-actors that he had trained and, but, you know, it was very difficult for me, these kids that were non-actors, to tell them, "Stand here. Here's the best light." You know, and they have to act. So when we did the first, we did a little short feature before City of God with Fernando, and we tested all this.

12:39César CharloneAnd I ended up and I said, "Fernando, we cannot treat these kids as if it was a film. We'll have to doc… you know, let them do it. Let them do their stuff and I'll fol… " And I conditioned all my equipment and everything to this point of view. Actually, the first thing that I told the production people in Rio de Janeiro where I was gonna set, I said, "I need an excellent first AC that will follow focus, improvising, and not measuring with a tape or anything because there won't be a chance to measure with a tape. He'll just have to improvise and if the kid is one meter and a half, he'll have to, you know, find the focus." And yes, and that's how I met Lula Carvalho, that today is a great cinematographer. But he was the assistant cameraman that helped me with all this improvising that. So that is something that I learned from there, and I found... And then when we went to do the next film, we w… Fernando and me were accustomed to this, so we offered it to Ralph Fiennes in The Constant Gardener, and he loved it.

13:48César CharloneYou know, because he felt free and we enjoyed it a lot. So it's something that we've come up with and, you know, we've been doing it, and it helps.

13:59Jawad MirI'm so glad you talked about follow focus because I was gonna ask you that about Sugar, that how when your subjects are free, you know, the following focus thing is probably the, if not the most toughest job on the set.

14:13César CharloneRight. Yes.

14:13Jawad MirRight? And to be able to have that to the dot with the... I mean, even with measurements it's hard. You know, but without measurements, how challenging was that? I guess I should be asking that from AC, but...

14:27César CharloneYeah, and also because the poor ACs, I surprise them very much because suddenly I'm filming here, but suddenly I listen to a noise in the background and I pan over there, and they have to, you know, rack the focus immediately there. Fortunately, today they work with these monitors that have very accurate.

14:47Jawad MirYeah.

14:47César CharloneSo they're able, through the monitor, do it. You know, those tools have come out to help us a lot. So before it was, it was completely, you know, impossible, difficult. You had to guess. But today they're working on monitors so they're going there, and they have these little tools that help them to, you know, find the exact focus. So things have gotten easier on that sense.

15:10Jawad MirRight.

15:10César CharloneBut, it's tough for them. Yes, you're right. It's very tough on them.

15:14Jawad MirYou mentioned, The Constant Gardener. I just have to tell you it's one of my favorite films, and I haven't seen it in a long time. I gotta see it again. I saw it when it came out, but I'm sure, you know, as you evolve in life you have a different perspective on everything.

15:28César CharloneYes.

15:29Jawad MirBut the s… the subject matter that it dealt with, right? With Rachel, was it Rachel Weisz was in it? Yeah.

15:35César CharloneYes, Rachel Weisz.

15:35Jawad MirAnd Ralph Fiennes. I mean, it was, it was a phenomenal movie. And I remember now that you mention it was very docu-style, right? Like, it was very handheld and…

15:43César CharloneDocumentary. Yeah.

15:44Jawad MirYeah.

15:45César CharloneYeah.

15:45Jawad MirPhenomenal film. Going back to Sugar, what, lenses did you mostly work with throughout the series, and what camera did you shoot it on?

15:58César CharloneYeah. That is another, that a… that is another issue. Because of trying to make things easy on set, I prefer to use zoom lenses which I can reframe immediately. So we do one take, for example, in a kind of wide shot. And then from the next take I go a little bit tighter, and we don't have to be changing lenses and stop the dynamic on s… on set. So basically I had three zooms. A very wide one, a medium one, and a longer one. And I would…

16:30Jawad MirWhat were the focal lengths? Sorry.

16:33César CharloneI'm, I'm very bad at numbers but I think it was an 18 to 30-something. Then it was…

16:40Jawad Mir35 probably, yeah.

16:41César CharloneYeah, 35. Then it was, a medium that was from 24 to f… 45. And then we had, a 30 to 110 or something like that.

16:55Jawad MirOkay. Yeah.

16:56César CharloneThat covered. So yes, and I was, I was using a Sony Venice, which I like very much the sensor of it. And also this is something interesting because it's an Apple series. I used, I had, I had been using iPhones for some time already. But being in Apple, I said, "Could you, could you give me a couple of iPhones that I can use on set?" And instead of a couple they sent me 11.

17:28Jawad MirWow.

17:30César CharloneBecause, you know…

17:31Jawad MirBut what were you gonna do with the phones?

17:33César CharloneNo, bec… because the good thing is that it takes a bit of a time to unload what you…

17:41Jawad MirYeah

17:41César Charlone... Because we record in very heavy 4k and so and so. So in order to not stop, you know, I would have different iPhones. So I filmed with one, I gave it to the DIT to download, and I got the other one and we kept, shooting. So, yes, I mixed the iPhones pretty much. You know, like all the, most of the cars, of the car scenes that I am with Colin driving, the iPhone is very practical because I can put it behind the steering wheel. I can put it, you know, I can move around very easily, and I use these goggles that I see the image that I'm doing. So you know, I use the iPhones very much on this show.

18:24Jawad MirWow, I'm surprised. I couldn't tell any, difference in terms of grading…

18:29César CharloneWe did quite a lot of testing of, you know, what we had to, prepare in the setup of cameras so we could mix them. So yes, we were cutting. I… in a car, for example, I would do a wider shot with a Sony from outside the car, and then I would go inside the car with the, with the iPhone, and it mixed well, fortunately. And I've been doing that for some time now already.

18:57Jawad MirThat's amazing. D… were you using any app like FiLMiC or Blackmagic…

19:01César CharloneYes

19:01Jawad Mir... Or was it straight?

19:02César CharloneFiLMiC Pro.

19:02Jawad MirWhich one?

19:03César CharloneFiLMiC Pro.

19:03Jawad MirFiLMiC Pro, okay.

19:04César CharloneFiLMiC Pro, yeah.

19:04Jawad MirOkay. Yeah, that's a great, that's a great app.

19:06César CharloneIt is. It is

19:07Jawad Mir... You should test, try out the Blackmagic one too. It's n… it's not bad.

19:11César CharloneI just recei… I just received it yesterday. I'm…

19:14Jawad MirYeah

19:15César Charlone... I'm, I'm preparing for a film that I'm gonna do next days, and I didn't know about that. So the colorist from Brazil that is gonna take care of what I'm gonna be shooting, he sent me the app and I downloaded it, so I'm, I'm gonna be testing it and enjoy it.

19:33Jawad MirYeah. It's, it's a great app. You said Sony Venice. Have you looked into the Burano yet?

19:41César CharloneNo.

19:41Jawad MirSo, no, okay. Have you... Obviously you know about the Burano, right? Sony Burano.

19:47César CharloneYes.

19:48Jawad MirYeah.

19:48César CharloneYeah.

19:48Jawad MirHave you seen any test footage from it?

19:50César CharloneNo.

19:52Jawad MirOkay. It's supposed to be... It's supposed to replace Venice. That's what they say.

19:57César CharloneYeah

19:58Jawad Mir... But I was just curious if you had, because you mentioned Venice. Again, going back to this…

20:04César CharloneThe thing is, the thing is that I question myself, where do we wanna go? Because I think we've reached such a quality that…

20:10Jawad MirThe maximum, yeah

20:11César Charlone... Yeah, I don't know what we can do better. I mean, I know there's lots of engineers working and researching, but what do they wanna get? You know, unless they give us 3D, images, the rest, you know, w… we have the best. I mean, these cameras…

20:26Jawad MirI…

20:27César Charlone... Arri and Sony, and, you know, they're delivering a quality that's amazing.

20:34Jawad MirYeah, and Venice has this noise, that I really like, the film, the film noise. And w…

20:41César CharloneYes

20:41Jawad Mir... There's one camera, I don't know if you've ever used, any of the Blackmagic lined up cameras ever.

20:46César CharloneI do have. Yes, yeah

20:47Jawad Mir... So the very first one they came out with, the 2.5K one, about 12 years ago, I shot my first documentary on it, and that, it had such out of camera great amount of noise that no other camera has come close to it. And after that, even Blackmagic stopped, you know, going in that direction. But you're right about the cameras being so up there now, which is why I think one of the reasons Red sold its company to Nikon, because how far can they go? Like, where's... They've what, 8K, you know, the Helium, and what's, what's beyond that? Like you said…

21:27César CharloneExactly

21:27Jawad Mir... Unless it's a brand-new technology where you look at films in a completely different way, whether it's Apple Vision Pro or, you know…

21:34César CharloneYeah

21:34Jawad Mir... Something of that nature. Yeah, we have reached that maximum capacity. And if anything, I'm not even too crazy about now too sharp of an image. Like, I need something to have…

21:44César CharloneYes

21:44Jawad Mir... You know, like, a FiLMiC feel.

21:46César CharloneExactly. Yes. Absolutely right. Yeah. S… talking about Blackmagic, I've had Blackmagic for some time now. I had the, I had the smallest one, the HD, and for example, I did a film, that... With Tom Cruise called American Made. He's a pilot.

22:06Jawad MirYes.

22:07César CharloneAnd all the…

22:07Jawad MirI love that movie.

22:08César CharloneYeah, and all the scenes of him piloting, he is real piloting, and I am sitting with him in the plane, and I'm... Because I couldn't be with a big camera obstructing his view. So I would, you know, I would be with my Blackmagic just filming him in the real piloting. So yeah, it's…

22:30Jawad MirIt's wonderful

22:31César Charlone... It…

22:31Jawad MirIt's…

22:31César CharloneIt's wonderful, yeah

22:31Jawad Mir... Technology's amazing.

22:32César CharloneI have, yeah.

22:33Jawad MirAnd I think, the... Have you seen the movie The Creator by Gareth Edwards?

22:37César CharloneNo.

22:38Jawad MirSo that…

22:39César CharloneNo, I haven't

22:39Jawad Mir... The, it…

22:40César CharloneIt's on my list

22:40Jawad Mir... It's a good, it's a, it's a good film. That was actually completely shot on,.. Oh, my God. What camera was it? It's a small camera. My memory just bailed.

22:51César CharloneOne of those Nikon…

22:53Jawad MirNo.

22:54César CharloneHuh? Sony…

22:56Jawad MirLet me just... It was a Sony camera.

22:58César CharloneYeah.

22:58Jawad MirFX3.

22:59César CharloneFX3.

23:00Jawad MirFX3.

23:00César CharloneYeah. I heard that.

23:01Jawad MirYeah. Yeah. Going back to Sugar, what was... I mean, you c… we kind of touched upon a little bit of things here and there, but what was one of the biggest challenges on any of the episodes, whether it was a scene, obviously keeping in mind we're talking about d… up to episode six, or lighting or weather, anything of that nature?

23:27César CharloneI, every time somebody asks me this question, I get mixed up because…

23:34Jawad MirOkay

23:34César Charlone... To me, e… everything is a challenge and, you know, I confront it as a challenge. You know, yeah, o… one of the big challenges was that we were shooting a lot on sets, on studios. You know, and I wanted it to look real, so lighting in order so it looked real. So, you know, I would maybe burn out a little bit of the outside or put some mistakes in order to make it look more real. But, yeah, the... I'm not very good at finding…

24:14Jawad MirThat's okay

24:14César Charlone... You know, to me, every challenge, e… every day is a challenge.

24:17Jawad MirSure.

24:18César CharloneAnd I try to get it the best I can.

24:22Jawad MirGot it. What, was there any particular scene... That, you really like, whether it, ignited something emotionally or the cinematographer in you or just anything. I know I'm not tr… I know it's hard to ask that question because you can't compare so many things when you're working on a film, but at the same time, something that left a mark with you.

24:49César CharloneI was very moved by the acting, the actors. It was such a beautiful cast that I enjoyed every single second of filming because I was seeing such a sensitive and beautiful acting from all of the actresses and actors.

25:09Jawad MirYeah.

25:09César CharloneThe, you know, it was a pleasure in that sense, me to be working with them and to be, you know... Colin is amazing. All of them, they're, they're, they're so beautiful, so nice, that, it was a pleasure to work with them and to film them, yeah.

25:31Jawad MirYeah. You know, for me, the most powerful scene was, I think there were two, but one was not as much, but the most powerful one was when, Olivia's father, he's, he's sitting with Olivia's grandfather in the, in the hospital or in his bedroom where he's lying down and he has a very sour relationship with his dad, right?

25:56César CharloneYes.

25:56Jawad MirAnd he start... He just keeps talking and talking and talking, and then he's like, "I, you know what, I really, I don't know why I'm telling you this," and he just broke down, right? And it just... That was the most humanistic moment in the entire series, and it was just so powerful where you have this relationship that is so not healthy. And then he only came to his father to talk about the loss of his son.

26:19Jawad MirI thought that was really well done.

26:21César CharloneYeah, no, really, that is a... You are right. That is a very powerful scene. I remember shooting it and being very moved by it. Yes. It's, it's, it's about human relationship. Yes, you're right.

26:35Jawad MirYeah.

26:35César CharloneIt's very powerful.

26:39Jawad MirWhat is something that you really in general... A… again, it's a very cliché question. I try to avoid this, but those... But, you know, when you're on a film set or a series set or whatnot, every story is different. But at the end of the day, the essence and the core of all the stories are more or less, you know, same. The f… what kind of emotions do they drive? Whether it make, they make you laugh, whether they make you cry, whether they make you think. What was one film or more than one or a series where you learnt a lot about certain subject that you did not know before? So whether it was American Made, I mean, that's true story. You know, Co… Constant Gardener was about, all the pharmaceutical companies and everything.

27:32Jawad MirJust in that sense, what was something that you learned, from working on any of the film or series?

27:39César CharloneWell, in all of these films, you learn a lot, like, you know, as you said in The Constant Gardener. I learned, I suspected or maybe I had, sensation that these things happen, but being there and, you know, all the research that,.. I have a very beautiful anecdote from The Constant Gardener that is, one of the biggest prizes I got, trophies I got was a friend of mine that was, in New York when they did like, one of these screening for influential people, and it was at the moment of the electoral campaign and Hillary Clinton was there…

28:25César Charlone... With her, with her people. And as they're walking out of the cinema, you know, people gathered together, he listens that Hillary Clinton tells one of her assistants, "We have to look into this thing about the, chemical companies. That is something serious. We have to investigate that." To me, that was, you know, as I said, one of the biggest trophies that I got that I said, "Yes, that's what I did the film for." You know, to make people conscious about things and make people think about things and yes. Well, in every film you learn a little bit, you know, like you said, in American Made, I knew about the drug, but I didn't know, you know, what the CIA had done in America because of that. And, you know, there's so much, so much research done by the writers and everything that you end up learning a lot, and I enjoy very much when I go into a film researching the background and everything in order to understand better what I'm going to do.

29:35César CharloneI always say that the moment I work most in a film is in pre-production… ... Because it's when I search, I test, I look for, you know... I'm, I'm very involved in the preparation of the film. So yes, every film has taught me something about life that, you know, it's, it's a wonderful profession to be able to do this because you get to meet so beautiful people and you get to go into, you know, different situations and subjects and things that it's, it's very rich. And you even get paid for that, which is amazing.

30:15Jawad MirAnd you get to travel as well.

30:17César CharloneYeah. Meet beautiful people and, you know, the crew that, the crew that I worked with in Sugar was amazing. It's curious because I come... I do more film than I do very little television…

30:33Jawad MirRight

30:33César Charlone... But these peop… these people were coming mostly from television. They were from series and stuff like that, so they had…... Different language and different behaviors for, to many things. But it was amazing to learn from them many things and to get, you know, into that world. So yeah, it was beautiful.

30:55Jawad MirYeah, it's funny you mention about you get paid for it. You know, I, my, I've, my colleague, who's also my, cinematographer, you know, we, whenever we're traveling for something, you know, we just naturally you chat. And there was this one conversation that we had that, you know, sometimes you forget about things in the, in the, when you're really busy and you don't appreciate life. And we talked about this, that how lucky we are that we get to do what we want, to get paid for what we want to do, plus we get to travel.

31:30César CharloneYeah.

31:30Jawad MirYou know, and it's, it's, it's the most incredible thing. And then you're telling stories that make impact, right? I truly believe even the most, you know, non-impactful stories like, you know, if you wanna like take a look at movies like, I don't know, I'm just throwing out a name here, Bad Boys or, you know, like a disaster movie, they do... Even those kind of movies have impact on people.

31:57Jawad MirAnd the cinema is just such a powerful tool that, you know, and then the way you just said that how Hillary Clinton said what she said, it's, it's an amazing thing that, whoa, I did something that is gonna at least, you know, bring about some sort of change. Or at least a thought is there. Whether it happens or not, that's a different story.

32:17César CharloneExactly, yeah.

32:18Jawad MirYeah. Go…

32:19César CharloneThat's why, that's why I love so much documentaries and I engage very much in documentaries. I'm, I'm, I'm doing two or three at the moment now that, you know... I love documentaries because of that, because you're telling the real, you know, the real world.

32:35Jawad MirStories.

32:37César CharloneYeah.

32:38Jawad MirWhat documentaries are you working on, if you are able to share?

32:41César CharloneYeah, of course. I'm, I'm working... I just finished one on, Philippe Genty, that is a French, marionette artist. Amazing guy. Very beautiful guy. I'm doing one on Uruguayan political situation now. The differences, the unfairness of our, of our system here.

33:07Jawad MirSure

33:09César Charlone... I'm working on one, about, a lady that had, a health accident, and she is, she is telling the story of that health accident. So, you know, it's films that you film bits and pieces every now and then and…

33:28Jawad MirRight

33:28César Charlone... They come together later.

33:31Jawad MirCool. Awesome. Looking forward to those films. Can you give me a little bit of a backstory of how you got into films? What... Was there a certain moment in life that triggered that journey?

33:44César CharloneYes. It's very easy. I am from the '60s generation, and the '60s generation was all about revolution. You know, John Lennon saying, "You know you want a revolution," yeah. So my generation was very concerned that we had to change everything in the world.

34:08César CharloneAnd I had colleagues of, friends of mine here's going into guerrilla movements. I wasn't that brave, and I had a little bit of a art background because my grandfather was a paint critic and writer. My father was a theater director, so I was surrounded by art. So I said, "Well, maybe I can..." And then I found some filmmakers like, Solanas, the Argentinian, that were doing films that were motivating, that were, you know, showing the unfairness and everything of the world we live in. And I said, "That is what I wanna do." So I, you know, I went into cinema in order to change the world, to do fame… films that would change the world. And, there wasn't a film school in Uruguay, so I found a film school in Brazil, so I moved to Brazil to study cinema.

35:13César CharloneAnd while I was there, when I finished school after four years, Uruguay had became a dictatorship, so there wasn't any point in coming back to Uruguay. I had lots of friends that ha… were in jail or had fled or whatever. So I stayed in Brazil and I tried to, take a double life doing films that would pay my bills and, parallel to that, do films that would, you know, provoke some kind of thought or thing about that.

35:48Jawad MirRight.

35:48César CharloneSo that's something that I've been kind of doing as much as I can, you know, doing, having a parallel life, two lives, you know. One to get money to pay the bills and the other one to make the films that I feel have to be done.

36:06Jawad MirAmazing. And was it always cinematography, or was there other elements of film, making that you were sometimes doing?

36:15César CharloneI... Many documentaries I direct myself. You know, like for example, during the dictatorship here in Uruguay, I did a film that, was alerting about the existence of this cooperation of the dictatorships called the Condor Plan. I don't know if you heard about that. Plan…

36:41Jawad MirNo, I have not.

36:42César CharloneEl Plan Cóndor. That was something that Henry Kissinger, Pro… promoted that was making the dictatorship get together in order to, interfere. And so you would have Uruguayan militaries going to Argentina and kidnapping people that were exiled there. And you had Brazilian, militaries that were coming to Uruguay. And they would do it freely because they were... There was this cooperation between the armies and the dictatorships. So I did a film that obviously I didn't sign the film because at that time we were in dictatorship, so it's, it's... It has no credits. But it's a film that tells the story about a Uruguayan couple that is exiled in Argentina, and they are kidnapped in Argentina with their two young kids, one of four and one of one year.

37:47César CharloneThey're, they're brought to Uruguay. They are tortured and killed. Their parents are killed, so the dictatorship ends up having these two kids. They don't know what to do, so they fly them to Chile and they abandon them in Chile in a, in a square in Chile.

38:05Jawad MirWow.

38:05César CharloneSo the sto… the story is this four-year-old kid holding the hand of his little sister, one and a half, that barely m… managed to walk, and they're left abandoned there in that, in the plaza in that square in Chile until a family, you know, gets pity of them and adopts them. And they grew up and today they're grown up, guys that, you know, tell the terrible story that they lived. So I did a film telling this story and, you know, going to Chile and interviewing the parents and everything and, y… yeah, denouncing this story. So these films I produce myself, I direct myself. I do a small crew.

38:55Jawad MirYeah. Yeah. I get it. I get it. No, that's, that's, that's the nature of our business. Sometimes we have to do that.

39:03César CharloneYeah.

39:03Jawad MirYou know?

39:04César CharloneDefinitely.

39:05Jawad MirJust to kinda wrap things up, what... Aside from the documentaries you're working on, anything else that's coming up in mainstream that you're able to discuss?

39:18César CharloneI just shot a film which I am in love with. I think it's gonna be a beautiful film with, K'naan Warsame, the singer, composer.

39:32Jawad MirOkay.

39:33César CharloneYeah. He... Where are you based now?

39:37Jawad MirIn Toronto.

39:38César CharloneToronto. Well, he fled from Somalia to Toronto, when he was very young. He's Somali.

39:48Jawad MirOkay.

39:48César CharloneHe fled, with his family. He emigrated. And then when he was older he moved to New York and he did a great career as a musician, and, very good musician. And he wrote this film that has a bit of autobiography…

40:08Jawad MirOkay

40:08César Charlone... That is called, it's called Mother, and, we already filmed it mostly…

40:13Jawad MirOkay

40:13César Charlone... In, mostly in Kenya and a bit in Somalia. And…

40:17Jawad MirOkay

40:17César Charlone... K… K'naan is now editing it now, and it should come out soon. And I'm, I'm very happy about this film because it tells a beautiful story about a mother and her son, and it's very nice.

40:32Jawad MirIs it something that's already been picked up by a distributor or a platform, or is it s… going through a f…

40:37César CharloneIt's…

40:38Jawad MirOr you think it's gonna go through a festival circuit first?

40:40César CharloneIt's gonna go through a f… a festival cir… circuits first, yes.

40:45Jawad MirSounds very fascinating. I…

40:47César CharloneYes. No

40:47Jawad Mir... Gotta no… note it down, and I would love to see it eventually when it comes out.

40:51César CharloneYes. Yeah.

40:52Jawad MirWonderful. Thank you so much, for coming on.

40:57César CharloneMy pleasure.

40:57Jawad MirI know you're really busy. I would love to chat with you one time about American Made and maybe Constant Gardener in detail…

41:05César CharloneOkay

41:05Jawad Mir... And City of God if you have time just down the road sometime here…

41:07César CharloneWe have our contact in, on cell phone, so whenever you want…

41:12Jawad MirPerfect

41:12César Charlone... We make appointment. I hope I d… I don't give you so much work as I did you this time changing dates and everything, but yeah.

41:19Jawad MirOh, no. Don't worry about it. It happens. I mean, we all got stuff going on, so it's not something,.. I completely understand. It's not a big deal. Don't even worry about it.

41:28César CharloneThank you for that. Thank you for that.

41:30Jawad MirAll right. No worries. You have yourself a great day. It was lovely chatting with you.

41:33César CharloneThank you very much.