'Mr. & Mrs. Mahi', Cinematographer, Anay Goswami

0:00Jawad MirEverything, every scene is a conflict, right?

0:02Anay GoswamiThe reason for doing this film was, of course, not just that scene. It was because it's a story of an inner conflict and, you know, predominant films are made about external conflicts.

0:12Jawad MirWhen you read the scene with him and his mom, do you know why that clicked with you?

0:17Anay GoswamiBeing able to feel that these characters actually really belong to these, this place and these spaces, and they own these spaces.

0:24Jawad MirYeah, actress Janhvi, she must have gone through rigorous cricket training. I'm a hundred percent sure, right?

0:29Anay GoswamiOh, yes. A year and a half or more.

0:39Jawad MirI saw Mr. And Mrs. Mahi yesterday. And what a great little film.

0:45Anay GoswamiYeah.

0:45Jawad MirI mean, that's probably the be-best way to explain it… ... Because it is really focused on just, you know, four or five individuals. That's pretty much it.

0:57Anay GoswamiYes.

0:57Jawad MirLike, that's the primary focus.

0:58Anay GoswamiYeah.

0:59Jawad MirAnd I, and I loved… That's what I loved about it. But obviously, you know, the performances, the music was really powerful. The score was really great. The… ... The characters, the script, and the arcs. But you know, what we're here to talk about is cinematography, and I loved the look of the film. I really did. I mean, it wasn't…

1:22Anay GoswamiThank you

1:22Jawad Mir... You know, anything like you would see, you know, in,.. When I say mainstream, I mean, like, literally mainstream, Indian cinema, where i-in a story like this, normally colors are very, like, saturated, and it's very bright and all that. So it…

1:39Jawad Mir... It was really fitting for the story of the film, the tone and the color that you guys, went with. Yeah, I just wanted to say that first.

1:50Anay GoswamiThank you. Thank you very much.

1:53Jawad MirWhat were your discussions like, with the director in terms of selecting the color palette, for Mr. And Mrs. Mahi?

2:06Anay GoswamiI don't know where to begin really, because you know, the first thing is that it's, a film based in Rajasthan, it's a film based in Jaipur. And, it's a love story, and it's a film about… It's an underdog's, struggle. So in terms of color palette, yes, skin tones needed to look warm. We were sure that it should look warm overall, but we didn't want to obviously, you know, go into too many primaries, certainly secondaries and tertiaries in terms of color. But we want to still retain the color, some colors of Rajasthan, which are intrinsic, and yet, you know, like for instance, Jaipur is called the Pink City.

3:00Anay GoswamiWe didn't always kind of,.. You know, when we were in real location, we weren't really always looking necessarily for typical Jaipur and everything being typical, even though there are a couple of locations which are typical. But, in terms of palette, we wanted it to be earthy, most of all, rooted and earthy. And, we didn't shy away from bringing in some of the colors more, native to Rajasthan and Jaipur, but they were, again, not in... I mean, Rajasthan's probably the most colorful state of all in the north of India. But, again, tints and shades of, colors which were intrinsic to Rajasthan rather than primary hues. But yeah, tints and shades of it, and earthy because it needed to feel rooted. And, I'm not talking so much at the moment in terms of the color of light, but more in terms of production design.

4:07Jawad MirRight.

4:07Anay GoswamiAnd, we also didn't want it to be like a, you know, there's a, there's a lot of trend about shooting desat and so on and so forth, and we were sure that we won't be going too desat on the film. Yes, the saturation levels would be in control via the color palette of the production design, not so much the grade. So yeah, the production design alone dictated a fair amount of the palette of the film.

4:35Jawad MirYeah, and it showed.

4:36Anay GoswamiAnd the costumes, and the costumes, yeah.

4:39Jawad MirYeah, and it showed very clearly. And you mentioned something about, not showing Rajasthan in its, typicalness, right? Like…

4:48Anay GoswamiYes

4:48Jawad Mir... And I was in Rajasthan, I was in Jaipur, in twenty thirteen. And you know, when you're driving around or when we're, we're mostly when you're in Jaipur, and I said Jaipur being the city for people who don't know Rajasthan being the s-the state. It was, you know, you would see shops, you would see homes, but mostly it's like castle, right? Like cas… history and all that. And the only time you see that in the film, which was as… is when, you know, they are having this conversation, the protagonist, Mr. And Mrs. Mahi, just kind of sitting with the sunlight, which I, by the way, loved in the context of the scene when she makes him realize about the word happiness, and the sunlight is…

5:31Anay GoswamiYes

5:31Jawad Mir... Just coming in very subtly. And obviously, it was the happy hour. You guys were probably waiting for that light to come in. That was, that was really well done. And I like the fact that there was no, you know, your standard, what's the word I'm looking for? Like, you know, just cutaways for the hell of the reason of having a song in there, let's have a song in there, like, you know, dreams.

5:55Anay GoswamiYeah.

5:55Jawad MirYou know, like all that stuff. It was very grounded. It was so grounded. And the messaging of that film about finding happiness I mean, it was just really articulate. It really done well. My favorite scene I was... 'Cause, y… you know, I don't wanna reveal too much about the film, but I will say this, you know, you see the film and you don't see the mom that much. And when there's that scene with the mom that comes, I knew right away this is gonna be the scene in…... In the f… in the film, and it sure was. It was such an amazing scene.

6:31Anay GoswamiYeah, you know, the s… it's the sim… you know, I've, I'd been missing doing some simple narratives and simple conventional drama, which was, which would be non-VFX or very little VFX, especially after the two action films I did before it. And so I just wanted to... I mean, the, it was in fact this very scene that made me say yes to the film.

6:54Anay GoswamiYou know?

6:55Jawad MirYeah.

6:55Anay GoswamiI told the director that if I wanna do this film, I just wanna do this film for this one scene. You know?

7:02Jawad MirYeah, no, that makes sense because it was just…

7:04Anay GoswamiAnd it's so simple. I mean, you know, the simplicity of it all is, endearing and that's... The message is strong, and, it just sticks to the basics, you know? Basic inner conflict.

7:17Jawad MirYeah, and you know, V… VFX heavy films and, action films, whether it's Hollywood or whether it's India, it, you know, they have their place, but at the end of the day, and I'm so glad to see that coming out of, you know, this, from India now, films like this, films like 12th Fail, which I'm sure you have seen.

7:41Anay GoswamiYeah.

7:41Jawad MirRight? Just to s… And it's not even about highlighting necessarily like in 12th case, like, you know, the struggles and the poverty and all that, but it's just anybody can relate to these kind of stories because they're just…

7:54Anay GoswamiYeah

7:54Jawad Mir... Simple and human stories. I mean, action movies…

7:57Anay GoswamiYeah

7:57Jawad Mir... How many people can relate to, right? They're…

7:59Anay GoswamiYeah, that's true

7:59Jawad Mir... They're just escape, I presume. But yeah, it's, it's that... So you said, you said, yes, you became interested in this scene because of the mom scene. If I…

8:09Anay GoswamiYes, actually.

8:10Jawad MirIf I…

8:10Anay GoswamiAnd I think the couple... Yes.

8:12Jawad MirSorry. Please go ahead, please.

8:13Anay GoswamiThe couple conflict, of course. I mean, the couple conflict is strong and, yeah, so a few scenes in the film which were absolute stealers, and stole my heart was one of them was the mom, scene with the mom, and then of course when the two of them end up fighting in the indoor nets when they're practicing and he loses his cool, I think that's quite a, that's a very, this is a favorite, one of my favorite scenes in the film. So yeah. And the father-son conflict. I mean, it's got so much stuff that is relatable for a common man in a country…

8:47Jawad MirYeah

8:47Anay Goswami... Like India, and especially hinterland India as well as, you know, B towns and C towns and so on. So it's, tugs at your heart, you know?

8:56Jawad MirYou know, I would, I would disagree with the fact that I think anybody anywhere in the world can relate to that because those are just relationships…

9:05Anay GoswamiThat's true. That's true

9:06Jawad Mir... We all have, right? Like we all…

9:08Anay GoswamiThat's true

9:08Jawad Mir... Have those kind of relationships. And

9:11Anay GoswamiThat's true

9:12Jawad Mir... And do you recall, and I know it's probably a difficult question to answer, and if I'm going, if I'm becoming a little too personal with this, please tell me so. You know, the scene of the mom, right?

9:26Anay GoswamiYeah.

9:26Jawad MirWe always c… we always wanna, as audience members, as writers, directors, whatever, you know, reading a script, we're always clicked by something in a scene or in the film, and sometimes we know why and sometimes we don't know why, right?

9:41Anay GoswamiSure.

9:42Jawad MirThe s… when you read the scene with him and his mom, do you know why that clicked with you besides the fact, you know, we all have moms, like I clicked with it too, right? Like, but there, was there an, a deeper, reasoning behind it do you think?

9:56Anay GoswamiYou know, the mother per se has a le… has, doesn't have so much screen time in the film.

10:03Jawad MirRight.

10:03Anay GoswamiIt's more about the father-son conflict and, you know, the mother is actually, like she says in that scene that, you know, ""You know, that's what she says."

10:29Jawad MirRight.

10:30Anay Goswami"Right."

10:30Jawad MirYou know?

10:30Anay GoswamiSo just the sacrifice of a mother, or rather, how the feminine energy of the, of the home is a pillar of strength in its own right. As well as, you know that lovely message she gives out saying that, "Right?" And so that pursuit of happiness versus, actually becoming happiness or a source of happiness, you know, and finding that as contentment, you know, as an outcome of contentment. And then when she says that your brother, you think he's happy, he's not happy. He's just pursuing one thing after the other and it's endless and So it's basically…

11:18Jawad MirRight

11:18Anay Goswami... That, sort of message to… towards contentment leads to happiness, you know?

11:26Jawad MirRight. And I'm just gonna translate, because pretty much all of my…

11:29Anay GoswamiYes

11:29Jawad Mir... Audience is English speaking.

11:31Anay GoswamiSure.

11:31Jawad MirIs that, you know, the scene in the, where the mom says that, you know, what, you shouldn't expect anything from anybody in return because mothers do so much…

11:39Anay GoswamiWow

11:39Jawad Mir... And what do we expect? Nothing.

11:42Anay GoswamiRight.

11:42Jawad MirRight? And you talked about the brother, which I thought was so... You know, so when you see the brother, right? Like

11:49Anay GoswamiYeah

11:50Jawad Mir... In the scene when he comes from the airport, obviously, you know, the stereotypical in my head is like, okay, this is gonna be, there's gonna be scenes with the brother. There's gonna be that little bit of conflict. Maybe he will take him into confidence down the road, but that just never happens, right? Now…

12:06Anay GoswamiRight

12:06Jawad Mir... Which was great, but I'm just curious, was there ever in the script or in the filming More scenes with the brother that may have been cut out or?

12:16Anay GoswamiNo actually.

12:16Jawad MirFanta… fantastic.

12:18Anay GoswamiNo.

12:18Jawad MirFantastic. Yeah, I'm glad it was done away.

12:22Anay GoswamiNo, I think it... Yeah, I think it was more about establishing the compa… I mean, for an audience to see the comparison, and then for the audience to see the comparisons that he makes, and then, you know, the reasons for him making those comparisons, of course, because of his failure. But, no, there were no more, scenes scripted with the brother actually. So, no.

12:46Jawad MirOne of the things that I was really impressed by, and, you know, you could tell I'm, I'm a cricket fan, and I know…

12:54Anay GoswamiI see

12:54Jawad Mir... What cricket is, and I could tell that the protagonist, the ca… actress Janhvi, Kapoor.

13:02Anay GoswamiYes.

13:02Jawad MirShe must have gone through rigorous cricket training. I'm 100% sure, right?

13:06Anay GoswamiOh, yes.

13:07Jawad MirIs…

13:07Anay GoswamiA year and a half or more of cricket training.

13:11Jawad MirAnd because those scenes, like you could tell, like there were no cheating and cutaways, like, you know, when you can…

13:16Anay GoswamiYeah

13:16Jawad Mir... Do the close-ups of the ball hitting the bat and, you know, a medium of the, her... It was just like the type of shots that she was playing, they're, they don't come to you overnight. Like, it's a very difficult thing.

13:27Anay GoswamiNo. Yeah. So it was, I mean, she worked really hard. The director worked really hard with her on the cricket, meaning that, you know, he's, he's a diehard cricket fan, and he used to play cricket at the state level as well.

13:43Anay GoswamiAnd, so he got the best of coaches that, who could train Janhvi. And, you know, she had very rigorous training, and, through the course of a year and a half, she dislocated both her shoulders at different…

13:56Jawad MirReally?

13:56Anay Goswami... Different instances. Yes. And so we were not sure whether we would actually be able to finally film with her or not. So we had to give it some time before she recovered and so on. And then again, it was about, you know, and as per the film, the strokes that she needs to play is the one that she needs to master. She doesn't need to master everything, right? So they worked on, worked on so many aspects of her, presenting her to be a cricketer or a batsman, and that's, you know, a batter, so. But yeah, I mean, like the strokes that she needed to play is the one she was taught most of all or emphasized. But yeah, it was, it's a lot of hard work from her side and the director's commitment towards that.

14:39Jawad MirYeah, and I just wanna clarify for people again who don't know cricket is that even the strokes that she played, it's not just about learning the strokes, it's having the right body, you know, the, your…

14:49Anay GoswamiYes, everything. The right posture, the right body, the right attitude.

14:51Jawad MirEverything.

14:52Anay GoswamiYeah. Absolutely.

14:53Jawad MirYeah, no. I was really impressed, by the detail… by the focus on that element. I'm glad that, you know, that the cricket element was very... You... I, 'cause I've seen films in the past, I don't remember which ones now because they were not something that I could remember. They're not much memorable. Where you could tell like, you know, you're cutting away cheating and things…

15:16Jawad Mir... Like they never, there was no training. And I'm glad now that is happening because that's what makes things more authentic and, you know, Indian cinema…

15:22Anay GoswamiFor sure

15:23Jawad Mir... Is moving towards that.

15:25Anay GoswamiYeah. Yeah, you know, I think Yeah, go ahead.

15:29Jawad MirNo, go ahead. Go ahead and then go ahead.

15:31Anay GoswamiSo I think, you know, the response to the trailer was good, and I think the buzz that we would tend to hear that was coming to us was that it's feeling authentic. The word authentic kee… kept coming up from a lot of people. So I think that, you know, the world and the nativity of the world especially, I mean, a lot of things like for instance, the, variety of that sports shop and the kind of sports shop and the, which was shot on a set. But, you know, just being able to feel that these characters actually really belong to these, this place and these spaces, and they own these spaces, and they inhabit these spaces. That was important, you know? So that was actually the emphasis for it to feel authentic. And for me, like for instance, when an actor walks into a set, of course, I've been working with the production designer and the director for some time to establish what the set would look like and what the set designs would be and color, texture, set propping, et cetera, et cetera.

16:33Anay GoswamiSo but for me, a measure, one of the measures which I find, you know, it's a subtle res… response, you know, because I feel that, when an actor walks into a set on the first, the very first time, I'm just looking at the actor, how he's responding to that space.

16:50Anay GoswamiDoes he seem to feel comfortable in it? Does he seem, he or she seem to, like, own it, or, and how comfortable is the person trying to get in that space, you know? Because then, like, locations, for instance, are just as much of a character as the character. In fact, the characters inhabit those locations 'cause they come from there. So yeah, it should feel like the actor is a representation in a sense of that space that he comes from.

17:20Jawad MirYeah. And the shop, you know, you talked about the shop. Again, the lighting in there, right, was just phenomenal, and because... Not, when I say lighting was phenomenal, again, people who haven't seen the film, it's not because it was just beautifully lit. It was just so reflective. You know, it was beautifully lit in a sense that it wasn't... It was just reflective in a sense of what was going on in that space between the father and the son, right? And…

17:48Anay GoswamiYeah

17:48Jawad Mir... And I, and I really loved, and maybe I'm looking into it too much, so please tell me if I did.

17:55Anay GoswamiNo.

17:55Jawad MirI really love, loved this. In the shop scene when the father and son are talking and he asks his son, like, "Who are you gonna coach?" Right? And they're both standing…

18:05Anay GoswamiYeah

18:06Jawad Mir... In very undertone kind of lighting.

18:09Anay GoswamiYeah.

18:09Jawad MirAnd all of a sudden, the daughter-in-law comes in, and she's standing at the door with the light coming in as a ray of hope.

18:16Anay GoswamiYeah.

18:16Jawad MirYou know, I thought that was…

18:17Anay GoswamiYeah

18:17Jawad Mir... Really beautifully done.

18:19Anay GoswamiSo yeah, I think, I mean, for me, this film, l… you know, then again, beauty is just so subjective. I mean, it's not so much about looking great rather than in a film like this, it's more about feeling right. Does it feel right? Does it actually evoke a certain response which is emotionally akin or the, you know, emotionally actually generating that response? So yeah, I mean, it's not so much about looking great, it's about feeling right.

18:54Jawad MirRight.

18:54Anay GoswamiYou know, is it evoking the feeling or not? And yes, I mean, for instance, the contrast or like for instance, one of the key sources in the shop are these very high ventilators from where these, the, you know, hard light's coming in.

19:12Jawad MirRight.

19:12Anay GoswamiAnd, so those are conscious choices of course. You know, it's, th… those are not accidents. 'Cause of course, when you're getting onto a stage and you're planning your lighting and you're planning how you wanna light it. Like for instance, a very key small decision, but a key decision was, there's this very amber, small little amber win… window, which is almost in line with where he's sitting, at the bill desk, you know?

19:39Jawad MirRight.

19:39Anay GoswamiAnd there comes this very amber light on, Rajkumar or Mahendra's face. So that was that, and the size of that window is pretty small. So it was, for me, that was a literally a representation of that little hope that he has to get out of there, you know?

19:56Jawad MirThat's so cool. I love that.

19:57Anay GoswamiThanks.

19:58Jawad MirI absolutely love that. Are you a cricket fan?

20:03Anay GoswamiOh, yes.

20:04Jawad MirSo you're following the World Cup that's now gonna take place in the US?

20:07Anay GoswamiYes. Yes. Yes.

20:09Jawad MirAwesome. Big game coming on Sunday.

20:12Anay GoswamiOh, yes.

20:15Jawad MirWho do you think, who do you think is gonna win?

20:18Anay GoswamiI don't know. I'm not gonna take any guesses on that. I mean…... Whichever is the be… better team on the day will and should win.

20:25Jawad MirYeah, I think it's gonna... As long as it's an exciting game, I'm looking forward to…

20:28Anay GoswamiOh yeah, that's, yeah…

20:30Jawad Mir... Any game with…

20:30Anay Goswami... I mean, India-Pakistan games are going to be always gonna be exciting.

20:33Jawad MirYeah.

20:33Anay GoswamiIt's always electric.

20:34Jawad MirI just... Yeah, but I just hope it's not one-sided, like, you know, like the last…

20:39Anay GoswamiYeah, no. Yeah

20:40Jawad Mir... The last match they played, I don't even... There's so many tournaments going on now.

20:45Anay GoswamiYeah.

20:45Jawad MirI think it was a, it was an Asia Cup or T20. No, Asia Cup, I think. When they…

20:50Anay GoswamiAsia Cup.

20:51Jawad Mir... When, yeah, when Kohli, took them home at the end, you know?

20:55Anay GoswamiYeah. Yeah. Yeah.

20:55Jawad MirAt the last.

20:56Anay GoswamiYeah.

20:56Jawad MirBut I thought that was... Even though I wasn't happy with the result, but it was a great game.

21:01Anay GoswamiYeah. Right. Right.

21:02Jawad MirHow did you get into cinema or cinematography?

21:08Anay GoswamiSo well, I studied fine art.

21:13Jawad MirYeah.

21:13Anay GoswamiI come from a family where my paternal side, it belongs to, I mean, the, to the arts, and we have a few art historians and very well-known art historians in the country. So yeah, I mean, the emphasis was on the arts in my home.

21:30Anay GoswamiBut as, and I studied fine art and, you know, I majored in photography. And I was pretty young, I was about 16 when I started shooting. By twen… 19, 20, I shot my first, print campaign, and then I was a photographer for about another four years. But I always wanted to do film, and that's something that I almost established in my head when I was, maybe just 12 or 13. I knew that I would want to ultimately do films, you know? So, and I used to watch a lot of films. So, then I, was sure that I would take the exam to the Film Institute, which is the national film school here.

22:10Anay GoswamiAnd I, pursued cinematography, studied four years and then, yeah, that's how I... So about eight years of photography, and then four years of film school, and then my first film.

22:23Jawad MirWas there a particular movie or a moment that gave you that spark that this is what I wanna do?

22:32Anay GoswamiYes. I mean, not a... Yeah, well, I mean, as a cinematographer…

22:37Jawad MirI… i… just interest in film…

22:39Anay GoswamiI think the f…

22:39Jawad Mir... And then cinematographer, interest in cinematography

22:42Anay Goswami... Yes. And in terms of film, it, I have to say it would have to be, from Hollywood, it would have to be Lawrence of Arabia and Dr. Zhivago.

22:52Jawad MirOf course.

22:52Anay GoswamiAnd, from In… from India it has to be this film called Garam Hawa, which is by M.S. Sathyu, which is a film on the partition and…

23:02Jawad MirAh

23:02Anay Goswami... The plight of a Muslim family who's being asked to leave from Agra.

23:09Jawad MirI gotta check that out. 1974. I've never heard of it.

23:13Anay GoswamiM.S. Sathyu, yeah.

23:14Jawad MirYeah. It's on…

23:14Anay GoswamiYou must see it. It's a very moving film. Very moving film. There was another film, which was a Bengali film by Buddhadeb Das Gupta, and I saw these when I was very young, maybe 12 or 13, and they're parallel cinema. And I was exposing myself, unknowingly to parallel cinema at that kind of age.

23:34Anay GoswamiAnd, that film is called Bagh Bahadur. It's, it's about a m… it's about a man who's, who's a dancer, folk dancer, who dresses up like a tiger, and he's trying to fight the advancement of a circus in his village that's taking over his entertainment, shows, you know. Very interesting film.

24:00Jawad MirI gotta check that out, too. You know, I, we're talking about all these films, unfilmed, and you just mentioned Bagh Bahadur, and I was re… reading the synopsis and it said 1989 Bengali drama film. And what sort of came to my memory, one of my, I would say probably one of my top five favorite films Not just in Hollywood, but just in general. And I saw this film surprisingly when I was 13, as I shouldn't have.... Parinda. Parinda.

24:34Anay Goswamihuh.

24:34Jawad MirRight. By Woody Chopra. Shot by Binod Pradhan.

24:38Anay GoswamiYes. Yes.

24:38Jawad MirI think... I mean, obviously the story, again, very tight, you know, family, friends, and childhood friends and all that.

24:46Anay GoswamiYeah, very

24:47Jawad Mir... Mafia, and the lighting was amazing. Binod Pradhan…

24:50Anay GoswamiYeah

24:51Jawad Mir... I think he's one of my favorite DP. I don't know if he's still doing any work.

24:55Anay GoswamiYeah, he is. Yeah, he still is. Right. Right.

24:59Jawad MirYeah. And to me, that film, is just... It was so ahead of its time. I still think… ... It's still way ahead of its time. ... I'm just bringing that up because I feel for me, even though I got into this, like I got the film bug after Jurassic Park came out in 1993, but I also…

25:25Jawad Mir... Part of me also thinks Parinda kind of initiated that love for cinema.

25:30Anay GoswamiOh, wow.

25:30Jawad MirBecause in those times, even now, like to have the way the way the film, the climax was unheard of, like, you know, like… ... What happens to the protagonist. And

25:45Anay GoswamiYeah

25:45Jawad Mir... And I'm just, and I'm just so glad now because in the last 10 years… ... Those kind of films are now coming out of India more, not necessarily Parinda type, but just in terms of like grounded stories, you know, proper cinematography, and, you know, just very well-researched and thorough and s… strong script and story. That's the pivotal thing.

26:08Anay GoswamiYeah. Yeah, I mean, I think we've come of age in a big way, espec… also in the technical departments, and just our collaborations seem much more, well-rounded now.

26:21Jawad MirYeah. What's, next for you?

26:26Anay GoswamiAt the moment while we speak, I've a few scripts that I'm looking at and a few offers, so I'm actually making my priority…

26:36Jawad MirNothing, n… nothing in the works

26:38Anay Goswami... Priorities straight. I haven't signed anything, but very soon.

26:44Jawad MirAwesome. I would be excited to, see that down the road. When, whichever you sign, when do you think would be the earliest one coming out, like next year?

26:58Anay GoswamiDepends on which one, which one I'm doing. I mean, it depends what, because couple of them are very long commitments. So, yeah.

27:06Jawad MirSo yeah, so next year or the year after. How do you think…

27:10Anay GoswamiYeah. Yeah

27:11Jawad Mir... How do you think Indian cinema has changed in the, in the rise of Netflix and Amazon?

27:19Anay GoswamiSo I think just the content. I mean, there's so many more directors and cinematographers, and the talent base has just increased, not marginally, but manyfold. So, and also just the content and the acceptance of content, different kind of content. There's a sea change to it, you know. So it's not like... I mean, everything's not dictated by only the bigger actors and the bigger films and the bigger studios and, you know, there's a lot more... It's much more democratic I think. And having said that, I think there's, you know, I... M… You... After COVID, there was just a barrage of, series and, not so many films, but series, which are all crime and crime dramas and revenge and so on and so forth. So I think people have had a lot of it, and I think they're looking now again for different content amongst series as well, so, you know.

28:19Anay GoswamiYeah.

28:20Jawad MirI gen… I genuinely believe that people are looking for films like Mr. And Mrs. Mahi and 12th Fail because…

28:26Anay GoswamiYes, I think because there's... Yeah.

28:29Jawad MirPlease.

28:31Anay GoswamiGo ahead, please. Sorry to cut you off.

28:32Jawad MirNo, Anay, go ahead please. Don't worry about me.

28:35Anay GoswamiSo I think, that's what, you know, my... Like, the reason I did this film was because I'd just done two revenge dramas, and I was like, "No, I just don't wanna do... I just wanna do something positive." And, you know, because I've, in the past I've done films like Super 30 and Cartouche. And they're always cl… always be close to my heart because they're very strong messages and strong films in terms of content. And it's usually, it usually were these kind of films that used to come to me about half a decade ago or earlier as well, you know, just like positive message driven, strong message driven kind of script. So, then I fell a bit, you know, prey to the biggies. And when I say fell prey, meaning that, just the little greed of actually…

29:24Jawad MirPaying the bills

29:25Anay Goswami... Like, l… lighting up bigger sets and bigger, arenas as a craftsman, so exposing your… instead of exposing yourself to bigger challenges. But, at the core of it, you know, it's the emotion that works, and if you're emotionally…

29:41Jawad MirYeah

29:41Anay Goswami... Connected to a script, there's nothing that motivates you more than being emotionally connected to a script or characters within the script, so.

29:49Jawad MirDo you want your next film that you sign up, sign for to be big or more emotional and grounded?

29:57Anay GoswamiIdeally, more emotional and grounded.

30:00Jawad MirIs there a specific director that you wanna work with?

30:06Anay GoswamiThere's two…

30:09Jawad MirWhen I say specifically from a story and directing standpoint, not necessarily of who they are, but just that element.

30:18Anay GoswamiSo I've always, admired… Sanjay Leela Bhansali. I've always admired Vishal Bhardwaj. You know? So these two people very much from, let's say, I mean, they're a few years senior to me, of course, but nonetheless. I mean, amongst the younger ones, there's a lot of people with a lot of talent and, you know, even Abhishek Chaubey, for instance, I really like his work.

30:46Jawad MirWhat has he done?

30:46Anay GoswamiThere's a lot of people that,..

30:50Jawad MirI may know his work.

30:51Anay GoswamiHe's done a bunch of films. Yeah, he's done a bunch of films. I mean, I think he was… Urta Punjab, for instance.

31:02Jawad MirOh, okay. Urta Punjab, yeah. And he's done Omkara. He was associate director and writer for it as well.

31:10Anay GoswamiAssociate director on Omkara, yeah.

31:12Jawad MirSo he's worked with Vishal Bhardwaj, quite a bit.

31:15Anay GoswamiYeah. Yes.

31:18Jawad MirAwesome.

31:19Anay GoswamiYeah.

31:19Jawad MirNo, that's, that's wonderful. You know, I just wanna sort of wrap this up

31:26Anay GoswamiI must, I must s… sorry, I must mention Vikramaditya Motwane most, a lot, you know. Motwane. Vikramaditya Motwane. Also An… Anvita Dutt. Anvita Dutt did Bulbbul and Vik… Vikramaditya Motwane...

31:40Jawad MirOh, okay. Okay

31:41Anay Goswami... Did, yeah.

31:43Jawad MirYeah, I'm very more in tune with the, directors from the, you know, the ones that we grew up watching, like '80s, '90s and early 2000s.

31:55Anay GoswamiRight. Yeah.

31:55Jawad MirI think I really, I really like, ah, what's his name? The one... He does a lot of films with, Mahesh Bhatt. His name is... He did Malang,.. Mohit Suri.

32:17Anay GoswamiMohit Suri.

32:17Jawad MirI, yeah, I really like the way he bring... I mean, I'm not crazy about all of his films, but the way he brings in emotions and…

32:27Anay GoswamiRight

32:27Jawad Mir... And everything.

32:27Anay GoswamiThat's true.

32:27Jawad MirAnd music into the film.

32:30Anay GoswamiIt's true.

32:30Jawad MirVery balanced.

32:32Anay GoswamiRight.

32:32Jawad MirIt's

32:33Anay GoswamiRight

32:33Jawad Mir... It's engaging to watch.

32:35Anay GoswamiRight.

32:37Jawad MirWhat... Lastly, I just sort of wanna close this, Anay, is that this film is about struggle, right?

32:46Anay GoswamiYes.

32:46Jawad MirJust constantly... And one thing that if you, if you, I… if you take this film as a case study… ... It's, like, literally every scene, and that's the way it should be in storytelling because that's what life is. Life is just a little bit more expanded and film is more edited down. Everything, every scene is a conflict, right?

33:06Anay GoswamiRight.

33:06Jawad MirFirst there's like, you know, this pr… protagonist, Mr. Mahi, played by Rajkummar Rao, he has his dad to deal with, right?

33:15Anay GoswamiYeah.

33:15Jawad MirAnd then he has his wife, that she... And how he has to look better in front of his wife and then trying to train her. But it's, there's always... And then, but the... And the, with the, with the mom scene, going back to it boils down to how the problem lies within him, right?

33:34Anay GoswamiYes.

33:34Jawad MirAmong many other things. What do you think your biggest struggle has been in life? May it be 20 years ago, five days ago. You know, not necessarily career related, but it can be career related, where you had to come, overcome obstacles. We all do, but just something that stands out…

33:56Anay GoswamiYeah

33:56Jawad Mir... The most.

33:58Anay GoswamiI'll just come to that. Let me think that through.

34:02Jawad MirSure

34:03Anay Goswami... But the... You know, I'd, I'd take this opportunity actually for a moment to talk about the reason for doing this film was of course not just that scene or, another scene and so on. It was because it's a story of a l… inner conflict and, you know, you know, predominant films are made about external conflicts, you know. And I've always been hugely inspired by film, filmmakers like, Sofia Coppola and, Spike Jonze. You know, stories of inner conflict and res… resolution of that inner conflict. I mean, that's where it all lies. The problem lies within. It only sort of manifests outward, but... So yeah, I mean, it was a rare script to me that came by, which was about misplaced or misguided measures of success and happiness, and I think that's a struggle that everybody's going through, including myself or, you know, has been through it.

35:05Anay GoswamiBut, so I think there's a lot of, lot of resolution of a lot of conflicts now over time and years spent in the industry or,.. So coming back to your question of what are the struggles I've been through? Of course, I mean, it's been, you know, some of these struggles are very common across all of us. The same thing, pursuit of happiness and not recognizing, the aspect of contentment, because contentment is that one superpower, because you can't really take away anything from someone who's living content. So I think that's been a struggle for including me and many more people. So I think, yeah, I mean, misplaced and misguided measures of success, pursuit of success, and what is success to each person is such a different thing. So not being able to actually live your own truth. For instance, I mean, when thought, speech, and action is not aligned, we're always in conflict because we might say something, do something else, think something, do something else.

36:13Anay GoswamiSo we're always gonna be in conflict. And, if you can't be... You, there cannot be any happiness if there is no peace, and peace is the opposite of conflict. So if thought, speech, and action are not, aligned in your life, you're not living your truth, you're always gonna be in conflict.

36:31Jawad MirYeah, that's, that's really well said, and I think, if anything, if you look at state of individuals, whether it's you and I or anybody else in the world, or state of, countries and wars that are going on, it's always about the inner conflict that you... The inner, the inner problems that you have or countries have or whatever, that you're not able to address, but you're always taking it out in the other direction, right? And that's what causes even more problems. So dealing with…

37:07Anay GoswamiYeah

37:07Jawad Mir... It's a, it's not easy to deal with your own problems, because there's this thing in your head that's always telling you, "No, you're not the problem, somebody else is," right? And you have to over…

37:18Anay GoswamiIt's the biggest problem. The biggest problem that we all are sick with is our own e… egos, right?

37:25Jawad MirYeah.

37:26Anay GoswamiYou know?

37:26Jawad MirYeah.

37:26Anay GoswamiThat's what we're sickened by, right.

37:29Jawad MirYeah. No, that's, that's great. And then listen…

37:31Anay GoswamiMy biggest…

37:33Jawad MirGo ahead, please. Finish it off.

37:34Anay GoswamiNo, I'm saying that, even if you're physically well, but you're sick with the ego that you're, that's, you know, painting you ugly, you're not, you're not healthy.

37:48Jawad MirYeah, and that's, that's the biggest thing. You know, I, if you talk about this word now is just thrown out, thrown around like just a tennis ball, mental health, right? Yes, there are a lot of people who are going through a lot of stuff in your space, in your head. We all do. But I think the only way to get out of that, at least... And it's, it's been proven over time again and again. That's what probably your dad used to do. I know my dad was telling me this when I was growing up. Exercise, right?

38:24Anay Goswamihuh.

38:24Jawad MirIt's like one thing that you do, that no matter what state you're in, if you're angry, if you're emotional, if you're sad, it just gets it out of you, and you are totally in different space. I know we're kind of going in a different tangent direction, but I feel that is something that is so pivotal, to all of us. Just being busy in a sense that you are self-improving because you feel good about yourself.

38:50Anay GoswamiYeah. I, you know, this thing about exercise, for instance, I mean, the effect it has at a cellular level. Similarly, and, or mental health or mindfulness and the emphasis on mindfulness in today's day, I think, it's about cleansing. I mean, exercise is actually cleansing you at a, at a cellular level. So it's really about cleansing and, you know, you might broom your home every day, but there'll always be dust that's gonna come on the next day. So it's really about that commitment to, towards cleansing yourself and cleansing your mind. And when I say cleansing, I just mean that lovely word called harmony.

39:30Anay GoswamiYou know? You know, so if you're not in harmony with your own self, and you, like, parents can loosely say when you're growing up that, you know, "Son, be honest to yourself," and so on. So, you know, you can't be honest to yourself if you don't know yourself, so you need to spend some time in solitude trying to know a little bit more about yourself and your predilections and your, inclinations and your tendencies and your inner tendencies a little bit. So you need some time by yourself, you know, to recognize where you've come from and where you're going and what your, priorities might be, your principles or philosophy might be. So you need some time out, basically.

40:13Jawad MirAnd it's interesting that you mentioned that, you know, as when you're growing up, excuse me, like, you know, when you're a kid, you say all these things in... You know, like, you see videos of kids just saying things as they are, right? Like, they don't know about who's around, what anybody will think, and everybody will call it cute and this and that. But when you grow up, and when you go in the world, right? Like, until you are sort of under your parents or not going to the external world, or maybe even in the early years of external world, you are quite innocent. But when the world sort of sur… surrounds you and goes, is around you start being dishonest to yourself because what the world will think, and…

40:57Anay GoswamiHave you, have, ever thought about... Yeah, go ahead.

40:59Jawad MirGo ahead, please. No, go ahead, Anay.

41:02Anay GoswamiHave you ever thought of the word adulterated?

41:05Jawad MirWhich word? Sorry.

41:07Anay GoswamiAdulterated.

41:09Jawad MirAdulterated. Okay.

41:11Anay GoswamiThink about the genesis of that word. It, the moment you, the, your innocence, your childlike innocence starts to disappear… ... You become adulterated, and you're turning into a... That process of turning into an adult, and therefore the genesis of that word, you know, because you're actually moving away from your true self, your true nature, your innocence, and your... You know, a validation starts to, is, step in, come in, and then you start to move away, and then that word adulteration, holds true.

41:48Jawad MirYeah. And that's, and that's what this film is about.

41:52Anay GoswamiYeah.

41:52Jawad MirIt's literally about validation.

41:54Anay GoswamiYeah, absolutely.

41:57Jawad MirAwesome.

41:57Anay GoswamiAbsolutely.

41:59Jawad MirAwesome, Anay. Thank you so much, man, for your time. I wish we could talk on forever. But, I would love to have you on again

42:07Anay GoswamiWhenever you... We

42:08Jawad Mir... Whenever you, whenever you... It would be awesome. It was pleasure talking to you, and thank you for your openness…

42:12Anay GoswamiPleasure talking to you, man

42:13Jawad Mir... And honesty.

42:14Anay GoswamiNo, my pleasure. Happy to talk to you. Thank you for having me.