'Frost/Nixon', Cinematographer, Salvatore Totino

0:00Salvatore TotinoFrank Langella insisted on being called Mr. President. You couldn't call him Frank, you couldn't call him Mr. L… Langella, and he did not talk to anybody. I did not get to know Frank personally until after we wrapped.

0:15Jawad MirHow did…

0:15Salvatore TotinoThe nicest guy you've ever met, but he would walk on set, we'd all be on set waiting. He'd walk on set, and he walked like Nixon, he looked like Nixon, he sounded like Nixon, and when he walked on set, he took the air out of the room. Everybody just stopped talking. And when you're behind camera, the hair on your neck would just stand up, 'cause you're like, "I'm, I'm here with the president."

0:48Jawad MirI just re-watched, Frost/Nixon, just like literally finished watching like 10 minutes ago. And I loved it even more now, because when it came out, I think the political angle probably wasn't that, something that I understood the way I probably understand it now. And it's, and it…

1:08Salvatore TotinoOh, it actually is so relevant now. You're, you got a point there.

1:11Jawad MirY… yeah. But itself, the film and the technical and the performance standpoint is just so beautifully done, you know? You don't even feel like i… it's basically two protagonists, and it doesn't feel like anything that's dragging in any way, so truly a wonderful film, and still holds to this day. Still holds.

1:29Salvatore TotinoWell, thank you. That's fantastic to hear.

1:33Jawad MirTell me, how did you get on board on this film? Was it because of the previous work with Ron Howard, or...?

1:39Salvatore TotinoYes. Yes. I had done,.. Actually, I met Ron, was gonna do The Alamo. He was prepping The Alamo.

1:46Jawad MirOkay.

1:47Salvatore TotinoAnd I interviewed for it, and started to prep it, and then Ron, for so… some reasons, couldn't do the film, and I backed out with him. And we sort of parted ways, and then f… about eight months later, he's like, "Hey, I got this film called The Missing. Are you interested in working on it?" And I was like, "Yeah, great." And I loved working on The Missing. It was great. It's, it's just Ron's energy is just, amazing to, work with, as well as his experience. So, from The Missing, we went on to do Cinderella Man.

2:19Jawad MirRight.

2:19Salvatore TotinoWhich is another one of my favorite films. And then Cinderella Man, we did Da Vinci Code, and then in between Da Vinci Code and Angels and Demons, we did Frost/Nixon, and then did, went on to do Angels and Demons after.

2:32Jawad MirI've seen all of those films except The Missing. I think The Missing, I remember the poster. It's Cate Blanchett, right?

2:38Salvatore TotinoYeah, Cate Bl… and Tommy Lee Jones. What was, what was hard about The Missing was that it, you know, it's a d… it was a dark story. And we kept coming up with ideas to push it into a dark, you know, area, and the studio's like, "Look, we need PG-13. We need a PG-13." So we kinda had to dial things back, and in the end, it wound up getting an R rating. And so it kind of, we didn't quite push it to where we could've pushed it.

3:09Jawad MirYeah

3:09Salvatore Totino... But you know, that's the p… you know, it was the politics at the time, and the rating system and all that sort of stuff.

3:15Jawad MirYeah. And well, Frost/Nixon was kinda like a docu-style in a way, you guys, the way you guys did the interviews of the actual actors playing to be the characters and reflecting… ... Back on something. W… how did that sort of transpire? Was that something…

3:28Salvatore TotinoWell, you know, it's interesting you said that, because, when we were prepping, you know, they, I had gotten the original interview tapes, and I started to look at it. I looked at it for about five minutes and I turned it off, said, "Oh, my God. This is horrible. I can't, you know, we can't do this." And Ron's like, "What are we gonna do? How are we gonna make this interesting?" And I just looked at him and was like, "Ron, we made this movie already." He said, "What do you mean?" I said, "Cinderella Man. It's two opponents that are training to fight, to box together, and I think that's the approach that we need to take. We need to sort of bring that energy to the interviews as well." And, you know, I made a big push with the, with Ron and the production designer. The interior house was a set that was built.

4:16Salvatore TotinoAnd I was like, "We need to bring the outside world in." That was the other thing, you know? Is like, we need light sometimes. We need to be reminded of what's outside and how the world changes, and it's not just this, closed in, you know, stale interview to sort of bring it to a crescendo. So before the interviews and after the interviews, we would open the blinds.

4:38Salvatore TotinoAnd the production designer made a really nice backyard, out this patio. You know, he had a little bit of the front with vegetation and all that, and we tied that into a location of a house that we shot in the Valley, in Calabasas, from Marlac Bay, and I think that sort of worked really well. You know, and I think, you know, d… doing those little techniques and those little kind of things just add other layers, you know? Kind of brings a little depth and subconsciously brings the audience to like realize how w… we're not watching a film, but th… this is something that's real, that's taking place at the, at the time.

5:19Jawad MirYeah. And one of the things that I started using in the films that I do is especially, you know, the idea of showing cameras in your film, especially if it's something to do, of a nature of a story that demands that.

5:33Jawad MirWhen you show, like the way you guys showed monitors and cameras and everything, it actually subconsciously, it registers something in the audience brain, whether it's this is of much importance, even if they know the story is important, right?

5:47Jawad MirIt just does something, and I think it's such a cool tool to have, and I do it all the time, obviously, if a story demands it. If the, if it's a event going on, media circling, you wanna show that it's a, you know, event that media is hovering around. It makes it look even more grand and big and, than it already is.

6:02Salvatore TotinoIt adds another level of reality to it.

6:05Jawad MirYeah.

6:05Salvatore TotinoAbsol… you know, there's that one shot Talking about those old TV cameras with the monitor.

6:11Jawad MirYeah.

6:11Salvatore TotinoWhere you see the monitor in focus and Nixon in focus in the background. We, I did that by using a split diopter. And it…

6:18Jawad MirI was gonna ask you that.

6:20Salvatore TotinoYeah. A diopter is basically a magn… like a magnifier…

6:23Jawad MirYeah

6:23Salvatore Totino... That you put in front of the lens to help you kinda get close focus. But a split diopter, you know, so a diopter's round. Split diopters cut perfectly optically down the center, so one half of it's clear and the other half is magnified. So I was able to pick the size diopter to get the f… the president in focus in the background and the monitor in focus in the foreground. And you kinda hide the edge of the diopter along the camera. I mean, if you look really carefully, you could see it. And it's interesting 'cause I… I've seen that used in other films in the past. There was one film in particular where, oh, it was the original Hoffa.

7:08Salvatore TotinoWith Jack Nicholson and Danny DeVito.

7:11Jawad MirRight.

7:11Salvatore TotinoAnd there was a scene in there where, you know, he's be… on stage and behind the curtain, and, I think Danny DeVito is in, and Hoffa's on the stage, and he had 'em both in focus. And I just remember seeing that going, "You know, I gotta remember that 'cause one day I'm gonna, I'm gonna need to use that." And, that was, that was the time I used it. And I always had, back then when we were filming, I always had a big filter kit, a lot of different types of filters. And I always had not only diopters, but I had split diopters with me, 'cause you just never know, like in a moment where something might come up that you're like, "Oh, this is a great…

7:48Jawad MirYeah

7:48Salvatore Totino... Idea to use this tool right here."

7:50Jawad Mir100%.

7:51Salvatore TotinoYeah.

7:51Jawad MirOne thing that I really found interesting about the film, I mean, most of the film is the interview, right? Not all, but… ... Most of it. And how do you make that engaging and interesting from a visual standpoint? Of course, you have to have a great script, you know, great dialogue. You have to have great performances. But to keep the audience hooked visually, I thought, I thought that was really well done because you don't feel for one second that, you know, this is getting too long. Was there a specific approach that you wanted to take in terms of the amount of different, you know, like overheads, close-ups, dollies behind them, and like was that something that you were always sort of had that in mind, that we need to get as much coverage as possible?

8:34Salvatore TotinoYes. You know, and like Cinderella Man, Ron and I sort of broke down each of the interviews. Like we did in Cinderella Man, where we broke down each fight, and we approached… ... Each fight a little differently. And so that's what we did there with each of the interviews. We didn't continuously shoot them the same way, to sort of help build that tension and bring it to a crescendo where the, where the president finally admits guilt. And I, and we did that with each and every one where we, I think maybe the first one, if I remember correctly, you know, it's been, God, how long has it been? 17 years.

9:16Jawad MirYeah.

9:16Salvatore TotinoWow, 17. I gotta say, it's one of the, my favorite films I've shot.

9:22Jawad MirWhy is that?

9:23Salvatore TotinoJust be… it's about what I'm about to say, but I, you know, like that, I think the first interview we shot, we sort of shot a little bit more mundane and a little mo… more on the boring side to sort of start to bring that audience up. And I think it's, you know, it's one of my favorite films because we put so much thought into every little detail of every shot.

9:47Salvatore TotinoYou know, even in the beginning when the, when the gurney's being wheeled down the hospital floor.

9:56Jawad MirRight.

9:57Salvatore TotinoYou know, we're looking at doing a shot of the gurney, and it's like, "Well, let's just do a shot of this wheel." And we rigged the camera down low, and just that wheel sort of moving like that just added this little subconscious tension. It's like something's off here. And it's like, you know, what's going on? It's just like a little imbalanced. And it was like down to that little detail, down to that little wheel on the gurney.

10:23Salvatore TotinoEvery aspect of this film we approached that way. The, you know, Ron wanted, Frost, David Frost. I'm, I'm, I'm talking in character's name. Michael Shannon, the actor.

10:35Jawad MirYeah.

10:35Salvatore TotinoDavid Frost. And a lot of it during the film, like w… what also made it special, Frank Langella insisted on being called Mr. President. You couldn't call him Frank. You couldn't call him Mr. Langella. And he did not talk to anybody. I did not get to know Frank personally until after we wrapped.

10:56Jawad MirOh, okay.

10:56Salvatore TotinoThe nicest guy you've ever met, but he would walk on set. We'd all be on set waiting. He'd walk on set, and he walked like Nixon, he looked like Nixon, he sounded like Nixon, and when he walked on set, he took the air out of the room. Everybody just stopped talking. And when you were behind the camera, the hair on your neck would just stand up because you're like, "I'm, I'm here with the president. I'm not here with an actor playing the president." It felt that real. So getting back to the, David Frost, you know, we wanted to do a shot of him driving up to the house and sort of bringing in the neighborhood and environment. And Ron's like, "I wanna see all the reporters outside the house, you know, as he, as he comes up, and then the president's motorcade drives in." And I was like, "Well, why don't we, let's try to do a oner." And Ron does not like oners. And I understand why. Like, you know, I push it often, and I think Scorsese gets away with it in an amazing way, and a few other people since then have done really well with it.

12:01Salvatore TotinoBut when you're in a oner, you're sort of locked in time-wise in that scene. And if you don't have cutaways, it might affect the whole length of your film or how you time different scenes editorially. So Ron likes those options. So I really pushed hard, and then I was like, "Look, I got this idea for this shot." I could give you a cutaway here and here, but let's try it and see how it works." He's like, "All right, I'm, I'll try it." And what we did was we had David Frost driving the car. I had Sam Rockwell in the backseat behind David. Oliver Platt and Matthew Macfadyen on the curb around the corner.

12:45Jawad MirYep.

12:47Salvatore TotinoAnother camera operator and another focus puller without a camera waiting next to the actors. I stripped down an Arri LT, and it just had a little monitor on it. We had the cable going out onto the roof with the battery pack on the roof. The door was tied open. I had a camera assistant in the backseat behind me, and I was in the front seat with the camera body. I'm filming David. I'm looking, there's a guy on a bicycle. I'm looking out the window. We turn the corner. We see all the news media and everything. As we pull up to the curb, somebody takes the camera battery off. I slide, I lean back, I slide the camera out. The other operator takes the camera. The focus puller in the back hands the remote focus out to the focus puller on the curb. The camera operator takes it and gets up with Michael Sheen as Michael Sheen comes out, and he sees Sam Rockwell there, and then Matthew Macfadyen and Oliver Platt come around the car.

13:56Salvatore TotinoAnd then as they're about to cross, the president's motorcade goes past. They look at it. We go to the curb, and we come in, and just as the president's motorcade stops, door opens, the president gets out. We're over, David Frost's shoulder right into hello, blah. We did wind up cutting to a cutaway of a high, like, secret service camera angle of all this. But, you know, sort of planning that was just, it was really a lot of fun, and Ron was like, "Let's try it. Let's see how it works. Let me see how I can make it work editorially, as long as I have some options." And, you know, he did cut away one time, but it w… it was so much fun. And, like, just doing that kind of detail and the teamwork…

14:43Salvatore Totino... In that. It's not just me and my camera team and the grip department, but it's also the actors and working and communicating with the actors. And while an actor's free driving the car, the car's not being towed. You know, there's a stunt person on a bicycle. You know, there's a lot of variables taking place.

15:04Jawad MirYeah.

15:04Salvatore TotinoAnd the camera car, and this whole thing that needs to happen at the curb and all that. I think maybe we did four or five takes. It was, almost every take was perfect. And it was s… s… it was so much fun. And so, you know, you say, why is it one of my favorite films? It's like, not only is it a great film to watch and what it means to people and how it looks, but making that film was really sort of special and fun. It's one of those days you go to work, where every day you go to work like, "I am so lucky in what I do. I'm so happy today. I'm happy, you know, in what I do for a living." And it didn't matter about, you know, making money or anything. It was just like, I'm having fun at work, and that is a great day at work when it happens. You know, we're always in a lot of hard situations, you know? Different types of films you do. Like, you know, Any Given Sunday was my first movie, and it's like, how are we gonna make the football look different, and, you know, how are we gonna do that? And then Oliver Stone and the whole sort of Miami party environment that was, you know, behind the camera, that chaos that ensued.

16:12Salvatore TotinoOr, you know, doing Everest, where, you know, I went to the Himalayas, and we went up the mountains, and we shot in the Dolomites. And I got frost, not frostbite. I got nerve damage in my toes and my fingertips. To this day, s… I'm still dealing with it. You know, it's like every film you do, there's always some sort of challenge to it and, fun or, you know, difficult, difficulty to it. But Frost/Nixon and Cinderella Man were probably the... Every day, I never thought, "What am I doing?" Where Frost/Nixon, I mean, not Frost/Nixon, where Everest a couple of times was like, "I wanna feel my toes again. Why am I here?" You know? It's a big difference.

16:57Jawad MirYou know, it's, it's so interesting the way you just talked about all this, and one key thing that you said was, you know, it's not, obviously everybody has to get paid, but it was not about that money. It was just about that being able to do this because it was fun. And it's almost like, you know, when you're a child, you do things for fun, not worrying about what the consequences…

17:18Salvatore TotinoYeah

17:18Jawad Mir... Will be or you're gonna get paid for it or not. It's just something…

17:21Salvatore TotinoYeah

17:21Jawad Mir... You enjoy, going to the park.

17:22Salvatore TotinoYou enjoy doing. Yeah.

17:23Jawad MirAnd that's, that's what's so amazing about creating stories and what we do is just enjoying going to work. Yeah, there was, it's gonna have a lot of challenges. There's gonna be tempers. There's gonna be this and that. But in the hindsight, you know, when you look at it, everything, when it comes together, and you watch it on the screen like, "Oh, my God," you know? You remember how we created this?

17:45Salvatore TotinoYeah.

17:45Jawad MirLike, what we went through to do that.

17:46Salvatore TotinoYeah.

17:46Jawad MirLike, it was so much fun, or it was so much challenging. But that's awesome. I really appreciate your enthusiasm for sharing something that was 17, 18 years ago. It's really cool to hear that.

17:55Salvatore TotinoIt's nice. You know, there was also, like, a shot in particular we shot, on the balcony of the Beverly Hills Hotel. The camera…

18:04Jawad MirAre you talking about the ending, the last scene?

18:07Salvatore TotinoI can't remember exactly where it was…

18:09Jawad MirOkay

18:09Salvatore Totino... In the scene. But it was their suite, and the camera starts outside and goes inside.

18:15Jawad MirOkay. Yes.

18:16Salvatore TotinoAnd it starts outside on location in Beverly Hills, and it's inside on set.

18:24Jawad MirReally?

18:24Salvatore TotinoOn stage, yeah. And we, you know, we choreographed that and did a little sort of camera technique, a little just sort of wipe. No visual effects. I mean, there was a little visual effects in the background to clean up some old buildings and stuff, newer buildings that weren't there at the time…

18:42Jawad MirRight

18:42Salvatore Totino... At the location. But, you know, there were things, you know, we thought about all that, all that detail. Ron's big thing when doing Frost/Nixon was the drunken phone call, and he insisted. He's like, "I want this live. I want this live i… because it's gonna add so much to it." So we had two sets. The interior... We actually shot... I'm sorry, I'm jumping all over the place 'cause I'm so excited.

19:12Jawad MirNo, it's lovely. It's lovely.

19:14Salvatore TotinoKind of keep coming up, you know. We shot a lot, a c… two days we shot some scenes at Nixon's real house.

19:24Jawad MirAh.

19:25Salvatore TotinoYes, which was really I forgot to talk, bring this up what was really interesting, I'll get back to what I, about the drunken phone call, but what was really interesting about that…

19:33Jawad MirDon't worry about it

19:34Salvatore Totino... Was the owner that owned Nixon's house was an old-time friend of Nixon. And he bought the house from Nixon. Beautiful, right there in, you know, overlooking the ocean. It's just stunning. And it was very resi… re… reticent for any filmmakers, 'cause everybody portrayed Nixon in a, some not nice light, you know?

20:05Jawad MirYeah.

20:07Salvatore TotinoAnd he was open to hearing what we wanted to do, and Ron spoke to him and sent him the script. And he's like, "I'll let you shoot here." So we got to shoot in Nixon's house, which was pretty incredible.

20:24Jawad MirThat's amazing.

20:25Salvatore TotinoYou know?

20:25Jawad MirThat is, yeah.

20:25Salvatore TotinoSo then we built the interior on stage, and we had two stages next to each other, where one stage had Nixon's interior, the other stage had the interior of the Beverly Hills Hotel suite. The Beverly Hills…

20:41Jawad MirWhere David Frost was

20:42Salvatore Totino... Not Beverly Hills Hotel. Beverly Hilton Hotel.

20:45Jawad MirHilton.

20:46Salvatore TotinoMake that. There's a, there's a difference. Yeah. So the Beverly Hilton. And we connected a live telephone line. The sou… Peter Devlin, incredible sound mixer, figured out how to, mix the sound on both stages at the same time, and the phone actually rang. And I had two cameras, and I happened to be operating one camera on the Frank Langella set, the president set.

21:26Salvatore TotinoAnd I had operators on the other set. And this is film, so it's not like monitors and digital camera and stuff. So I had to, you know, I just, I had to jump back and forth, make sure all my exposures were right. I was happy with the look everywhere. Talked to my camera operators about those angles that, you know, I wanted to make sure they got and, make sure they looked right. And then I worked with Frank Langella and Ron on one set while that was happening, and the phone call was live. Every single time that phone rang, the hair would just stand up on my neck. I was like... You know, and we were scheduled to film that all day long. And, you know, we were doing all the shots and everything and…

22:09Jawad MirIt was…

22:09Salvatore Totino... Frank was just unbelievable. Then we finished midday. We finished by lunch, the whole scene. So we wound up pulling work up from following days, which allowed us to finish making that film two days early. We were scheduled for 40 days. We finished it in 38 days. I shot more film on Frost/Nixon in 38 days than I did in 86 days on Da Vinci Code. We shot a million…

22:36Jawad MirReally? Wow

22:36Salvatore Totino... Million 200,000 feet of film on Frost/Nixon.

22:41Jawad MirThat is incredible.

22:43Salvatore TotinoYeah. Yes.

22:43Jawad MirAnd…

22:44Salvatore TotinoIt…

22:44Jawad MirAnd i… it's so cool that Ron decided to do that scene, you know, with a call actually taking place because… ... I mean, I didn't, I didn't s… I didn't think about that, but it felt so damn real. And, you know, when you, when you see phone conversations in movies, just in gen... You can tell, you know, that it's just, there's nobody on the other side.

23:03Salvatore TotinoYeah.

23:03Jawad MirEven if you, even if you believe it, you can tell there's nobody on the other side.

23:06Salvatore TotinoIt drives me, it drives me crazy every time we do a movie and I'm like, just especially this day and age, we have cell... When, and we're all on cell phones. You know, I know the actor's not working today, but I bet you if you ask the other actor, "Hey, you know, at between 2:00 and 3:00, would you mind just getting on the cell phone and just reading the lines with the other actor? 'Cause we're gonna film him on the other side." You know…

23:28Jawad MirYeah

23:28Salvatore Totino... A lot of it's like, "Oh, no, we can't ask him to do that, because then technically it's a work day for them, and then we can't... You know, they're only scheduled for so many day." Or whatever the politics are. And it's like…

23:39Jawad MirYeah

23:39Salvatore Totino... You know what? At that point it's like, the, let's, let's drop that and let's bring the fun back into it. You know? And I think any time it's real, you feel it. Just like you said. You said you can tell when nobody's on the other li… end.

23:59Jawad MirAnd it's not just even that stuff, the phone call. The scene that you're talking about, you know, w… you getting out of the car, the camera operator, the focus puller and all that. Nowadays, you would have all those cranes with the car sitting on a truck or something, or like, you know, those LED screens. It's great and everything. Technology's awesome. But again, that fun that you... E… everything has become so strict. You have to do this way. You have to do it that way.

24:24Jawad MirFilmmaking is supposed to be about Fun, you know?

24:27Salvatore TotinoYeah.

24:27Jawad MirCreating stories. Emotional stories or funny stories. But it's great to hear that because I'm really excited talking to you about all this stuff because it's making me light up as well. It's awesome.

24:38Salvatore TotinoThat's great. You know, I think, you know, you bring it up today, I think you could really tell the difference when you see LED screens…

24:47Jawad MirYeah

24:47Salvatore Totino... For process work on screen. And there's a big push for it, and there's all this technology, and there are constantly new companies coming out, bringing us cinematographers in, showing us their technology. And it's still not right. And I think it's about being disciplined, knowing what you wanna do, planning ahead. It is difficult to shoot on a real location, but it adds a lot to it. But if you're disciplined and you have your game plan in place, you can be very efficient with it. We did four takes that driving sequence, then we went on to continue shooting other scenes. You know? I mean, it's just... You know, that's the way Ron is. Ron's somebody, he's 10 years older than me. He's got the energy of somebody 20 years younger. And, like, every day Ron comes to work, it's like his first day ever coming to work. He comes to work. He's so prepared. He's got a script. He's got his notes. He's got a shot list.

25:48Salvatore TotinoHe's got his little anxiety going, you know? We drive into work together, and you can just tell, like, you know. They usually pick me up first, and, like, he'll be waiting on the corner. No matter how early you get there. You say, "We're gonna pick you up at 7:00," and you drive up at 10 to 7:00, he's outside waiting. If I come 20 to 7:00, he'll be outside waiting.

26:09Jawad MirThat is so awesome.

26:10Salvatore TotinoAnd he's like, "Hey, guys. How you doing? Morning. Did you get any sleep today? Did you get... Well, I got, I got up a little early. I was working on the shot list, and I changed this thing, and I..." "Ron, you just got in the car. Let's get a cup of coffee on the way to work…" "... And we'll talk about it," you know? And it's just, it's so invigorating to work with a leader, a director, a very creative person that sort of brings that energy, that confidence, and their direction from the very first second of the day. It's just, again, you know, you feel very lucky to…

26:48Jawad MirYeah

26:48Salvatore Totino... To…

26:49Jawad MirAnd… Sorry, go on

26:51Salvatore Totino... Work. W… you feel lucky to work with him, and happy. You know? It's nice.

26:56Jawad MirYou know, one of the things that you talked about, technology and locations, in my book, and that my book is not, it's just my book, right? I, if I'm watching something or if I want to do something, if I wanna make a film or if I'm telling a story, three things are, which is something that studios, I feel, are forgetting nowadays because they're trying to save money. The biggest thing with any f… film is story, right? How good the story is, the script. How good the characters are, number two. And the location. I think those three things are so pivotal, and now we're slow, slowly shifting away from all that. And you can see that pe… that's one of the reasons, among many of the reasons, because there's streaming, tickets are expensive. People are not getting into movies. I mean, movies like that used to come in the early 2000s or '90s or '80s. I d… I don't remember. Like, I was talking about this to, John Seale, cinematographer of English Patient…

27:47Jawad Mir... And, you know?

27:48Salvatore TotinoJohn's work is wow.

27:49Jawad MirAnd I was saying the... Yeah, he's, he's awesome. He's awesome.

27:51Salvatore TotinoGreat guy.

27:52Jawad MirA lovely guy, too. But I was telling him the same thing. It's like, I don't, if somebody asked me, what movies are you looking forward to this summer or winter, I probably will name two or three. Because there's, you know, that excitement thing is gone. Like, those good stories are not there anymore. At least for me.

28:07Jawad MirI don't know. Maybe I'm just, you know, too old school. But, when, that, those times were great. Frost Nixon, Cinderella Man. You know, even Da Vinci Code, and The Insider with Russell Crowe and Michael Mann. And, I mean, I can go on and on and on.

28:21Salvatore TotinoAmazing. Yeah.

28:21Jawad MirAmazing stuff. Go on.

28:23Salvatore TotinoI think y… you know, you're right. Because what happens today is there's, is too much relying on the technology and not m… not committing. You know, for s… for y… you're gonna build, an office set, and there's a city outside the window. And I did this on the, on the movie Changing Lanes. Today, they're like, "We'll put up a, we'll put up a green screen out there." Like, why? Why don't we just get a translight, and then you have no real vi… or you can have little visual effects by putting some blinking lights and a helicopter or something going by. "Well, we don't know what we wanna put out there." It's like, well, let's talk about and let's decide what to put out there. On Changing Lanes, we had 360 feet of what's called a Dorotrance, which you have to front light it for day and you backlight it for night. And then what, they, the only visual effects they added on, and a Dorotrance is basically a big transparency photograph for people that don't know.

29:27Salvatore TotinoSo it looks very real. And then we just added, like, a helicopter going by and at night a couple blinking city lights like that. But there's no big visual effects. It wasn't tens of thousands, $100,000 in the visual effects.

29:42Jawad MirYeah.

29:42Salvatore TotinoIt's all done in camera, and we done t… and we did tests. You know, I was very concerned with the front lighting of the Dorotrance and all the spill and how we were gonna deal with the spill light at the time. And also making, giving it a little bit of softness. And my gaffer, Jay Fortune, and I came up with this, you know, plan to front light it. And in between the set, the lights, and the Dorotrance, we put a net. A white mesh net just to make the Dorotrance a little soft.

30:18Jawad MirNice.

30:18Salvatore TotinoAnd we did, we did tests. And we tested that. And then at night we dropped the net so that the city felt a little crisper. It was a big undertaking from the company that made the Translight. And so, you know, it was great to be able to test it because there was a couple of panels that were a little bit more magenta, and they came in and they did these washes over it and cleared it, you know, made it really nice and smooth. And you look at that film and you'd think you're, you'd think you're in a 30-story s… skyscraper in New York City. It's all done in camera. And today, there's, I think there's a lot of studio executives that haven't had this sort of, on-the-ground experience, have not come up through some of the older times like that, and don't quite understand what it's like or how to achieve that and get that kind of look.

31:18Salvatore TotinoOr they just are too afraid to make a commitment, or won't make a commitment to what it should be outside. And there's times, look, doesn't work every time, but a majority of the time it works, and it works really well.

31:32Jawad MirYeah.

31:32Salvatore TotinoYou know?

31:33Jawad MirThat's so true. And by the way, Changing Lanes is one of my favorite movies.

31:38Salvatore TotinoOh, thank you.

31:38Jawad MirWe will, we will talk about that some other time, but I just…

31:41Salvatore TotinoOkay

31:41Jawad Mir... Wanna point that out. It's a, it's a great film. Probably one of Ben Affleck's best, you know, as an actor.

31:49Salvatore TotinoYeah

31:49Jawad Mir... Going back to Frost/Nixon, I really like the ending scene, and I was glad, you know, because when the president, Nixon, played by Frank, he re… he admits to his wrongdoing, right? And he says that, "In my book it's not wrong, but in everybody else books it's wrong."

32:08Salvatore TotinoYes.

32:08Jawad Mir"I'm aware of that." You know, and you see the f… the reaction on David Frost's face, like he felt pain for Nixon. Like, he felt for him. And then there was a really great scene at the end, the closure scene, where they meet on the balcony of the hotel, or I think his house it is.

32:24Salvatore TotinoNo, his house.

32:25Jawad MirHis house, right. And then he brings him the shoes, right? I think the coolest thing about that scene for me was you, he never opens the box. You never see the shoes. You just… ... You guys did the, show them earlier in the film, like you know…

32:40Salvatore TotinoYeah

32:40Jawad Mir... When he was trying to get his distract… him distracted. I, it's just a little thing. I don't know if I'm look, I look into things too much, being a, it, I just thought it was really cool that you guys didn't show the shoes, because it was not about the shoes. It was about them two just, you know, seeing each other off in a positive way.

32:59Salvatore TotinoYeah. You're not looking into things. You're exactly correct, and that's the conversation that Ron had. That's what he wanted, and it, that's exactly how he wanted you to feel, and it's wonderful. When it, when I just, I'm, like I could cry right now of happiness. Hearing you say something like that, and knowing when we were making the film and the director wanted that portrayed, and you say that's how you felt, it's, it's like winning the championship match, you know? It's just, it's just... And you know, I wish, I wish I could feel like this on every film. It's just unbelievable.

33:44Jawad MirI'm glad to hear that. No, it's, it's…

33:45Salvatore TotinoIt's great. Thank you. I love that s… you know, 'cause even that, like one of those shoes, they're Italian. They're pretty effeminate and

33:53Jawad MirYeah

33:53Salvatore Totino... But it's, it's…

33:54Jawad MirYeah. I mean, nowadays everybody wears them, right? It's like super common.

33:58Salvatore TotinoYeah. But you know, it was also, like, you know, Nixon taking a dig at him.

34:05Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

34:05Salvatore TotinoIn a different way, you know? And it's very much what's happening in the political environment today.

34:12Jawad MirYeah.

34:13Salvatore TotinoYou know? And it's, I mean, it's kinda sad not much has changed if you think about it. But, it's, only gotten worse. However, you know, all those little details, little details. It's written in the script. Everything was thought out, you know? The writer who wrote the script, Peter Morgan.

34:40Salvatore TotinoEvery word is thought out. Every motion. And he worked with Ron. There was a script, and then they kinda worked on it together. And, you know, as a filmmaker, you think about, you know, I wasn't in the room with Ron and the writer, but when you read the script and you see the film, you realize, like, what work they put into it. Like, they thought about those words and how they were gonna come across visually, and what they meant, and how it would take the audience on a journey, and where in that story that journey should be. You know, whether it was a peak or a valley or, you know, a desolate road or, you know, a busy highway at that moment. It was really thought through. And, you know, putting a film together like Frost/Nixon is not sort of done in a haphazardly way. A lot of work, a lot of forethought and effort really goes into it, and communication and teamwork.

35:44Salvatore TotinoThat's what's really nice about working with Ron. He creates this environment, this collaborative environment. It's a, it's a, it's a team. And, you know, you could constantly throw ideas out at Ron, and s… some of them stick and some of them don't. And he'll just say…

35:57Jawad MirYeah

35:57Salvatore Totino... "Nope, I don't like that idea and this is why. I'd, I'd rather do this." And, you know, you try to push back, and he'll push back again, which is really, it's, it, again, another happy day at work.

36:11Salvatore TotinoIt's not just the work on set and in filming, but it's also that communication and the, that collaborative with your general, so to speak. You know, with the, with the creative leader. It's his film, you know? We're here to help him tell his journey. He's the captain of the ship, and I'm the first mate. And, you know, there's a couple times I think maybe this is, you know, I wanna take it on this, scenic view, the boat, and I'll make that suggestion to the captain, and sometimes it works, and sometimes it just, he's got his own scenic point. And it's just wonderful.

36:47Jawad MirYeah.

36:47Salvatore TotinoIt's a wonderful collaboration, and, it's again, very happy to and very lucky to be in that situation.

36:56Jawad MirYeah, Ron, I mean, Ron Howard's work at le… you know, it goes back as early as with Tom Hanks in Splash.

37:03Salvatore TotinoYeah.

37:04Jawad MirBut for me, for me, the film that really started my journey, knowing who Ron Howard was Willow, you know, and then followed by…

37:11Salvatore TotinoYeah

37:11Jawad Mir... So many other films.

37:13Salvatore TotinoYes.

37:13Jawad MirAmazing films that he has done.

37:15Salvatore TotinoYeah.

37:15Jawad MirAnd he's still at it, right? And now his daughter is in films, and it's, it's incredible to see that... And you could tell, again, I, you and I have been saying this over and over again. You could, y… you can tell when you watch a film if people had fun making it. It shows clearly.

37:35Salvatore TotinoYeah.

37:35Jawad MirFrom performance to lighting to editing, everything, you can tell. And you can also tell if nobody had You know? There's a, there's a movie called, Red Planet. I'm sure you have heard the story.

37:47Salvatore TotinoRed Planet. Oh, not only did I hear the story. Anthony Hoffman asked me to film the pl… the movie.

37:53Jawad MirOh, so you were part of that.

37:54Salvatore TotinoI was not part of it.

37:55Jawad MirOkay.

37:56Salvatore TotinoI was asked to film it, but I couldn't. I had a conflict.

37:59Jawad MirYeah. Because how they had, like, Tom Sizemore and Val Kilmer, they were, didn't like each other at all, and they shot them separately and, you know, different times and all that. And you could see, you could see there was something there that I learned about afterwards. So…

38:13Salvatore TotinoYeah

38:13Jawad Mir... It's again going back to that team effort and collaborative. It shows. It just clearly shows. Just kind of wrapping things up, in terms of you as a human being learning about Nixon or Frost/Nixon interview, how much were you aware of it? And if not, how much research or preparation you did?

38:38Salvatore TotinoWell, I was…

38:38Jawad MirAnd were there any surprises?

38:40Salvatore TotinoI was a kid when it happened.

38:43Jawad MirRight.

38:43Salvatore TotinoI remember the day, Nixon resigned. My father took me to work with him, and he brought the television from home to his shop so his customers could see, you know, the president resigning. I was nine years old, I think 10 years old at the time. No idea of politics. So I had n… did not even know about the interviews between Fr… David Frost and Richard Nixon. So when I got the script, I read the script, I was like, "Wow, this is fascinating." And like I said earlier, you know, I started to watch the interviews, and I was like, "Stop."

39:21Jawad MirYeah.

39:21Salvatore Totino"I don't want this to," you know, from my point of view. And then, you know, you went online, you started doing some research, you started reading about it as an adult. You know, I was 30. No, I was, 44 years old at the time we shot Frost/Nixon.

39:44Salvatore TotinoSo I kinda had to re-educate myself. Not re-educate, but just educate myself on sort of that political time 'cause I was too young, to r… be aware of it.

39:58Jawad MirRight.

39:58Salvatore TotinoYou know, I think, I think what's interesting and what's happening in the world is that some of history gets, is being rewritten or forgotten about, and w… we keep making the same mistakes. And I think that it's so important that all of this be taught in school, people get educated so that we can grow as a civilization, as opposed to kind of stepping back in the same doo-doo that we keep stepping over.

40:36Jawad MirYeah. Right.

40:36Salvatore TotinoYou know? It's like you walk out of your house, you make a left, you start walking down the street in New York, and boop, you stepped in dog poop. And the next day, you come out, and you do the same thing, and you'd like didn't learn or s… like see that there was dog poop there because you forgot. It was, you were told that it wasn't there, and, you know, that's...

40:59Jawad MirYeah. It is. I mean…

41:00Salvatore TotinoThat's why we, that's why we need to make films like this.

41:04Jawad MirI couldn't agree with you more.

41:06Salvatore TotinoYou know, it's like, George Clooney in Eyes of March. You know?

41:10Jawad MirYeah.

41:10Salvatore TotinoIt's a really amazing movie.

41:14Jawad MirOne of the things that I really appreciated in this film, and part of it is probably because that's the kind of film, when I make films, I try to tell... You know, there's always a protagonist, and there's an antagonist or antagonists…

41:27Jawad Mir... With an S at the end. It's important to show the antagonist in a humanistic way, no matter how crazy he or she or they are. Right? And I s… always strive for that. You know, you have to have an objective standpoint, no matter where your feelings lay. I really appreciated that in this, you know, with especially in the end, the phone call and then the closure and everything. You know, yeah, you can argue that he made a lot of mistakes intentionally, unintentionally, whatever that was, but at the end of the day, him petting the dog, you know, in the, in the last scene, just human… humanizes him, and I think that when you humanize even antagonists, you dislike them and like them at the same time, if that makes any sense. And I thought that was really cool. I really appreciated that. And it's not because…

42:20Jawad Mir... I have any particular political views. It's just because you always wanna understand the dark side of human beings, that they are still…

42:26Salvatore TotinoYou…

42:26Jawad Mir... Human at the end of the day.

42:27Salvatore TotinoYeah, you do, and there are people that love them. And you're like, "How could they? They love them." Because you've only seen sort of what you understand as the dark side of somebody. But yeah, I, everybody's got a human side, and I think that's important that you do bring that out. And it was done really well in Frost/Nixon. It really was.

42:50Jawad MirYeah.

42:50Salvatore TotinoYou know, it was... I, and I've, I've never said this before, but it just feels like a perfect film, as close to perfect as you can get. And, it, there's only a few films in life that feel like that, you know? For me.

43:19Jawad MirI... No, I, it's up there for me too, and one of the reasons not because it's a political film, but because it's a story of two individuals.

43:26Salvatore TotinoYes.

43:26Jawad MirAnd that's what's so amazing about it. It has nothing to do with politics…

43:30Salvatore TotinoNo

43:30Jawad Mir... Even though it does.

43:31Salvatore TotinoYeah. It's two opponents getting ready to battle. It's…

43:37Jawad MirRight

43:38Salvatore Totino... Just like that, you know? Just, you know, you look at boxers. Is that vacuum, you hear that sound?

43:48Jawad MirNo, I don't hear anything.

43:49Salvatore TotinoOkay. My neighbor, he's constantly vacuuming. He's OCD, and he vacuums every little…... Detail of everything all the time, you know? Anyway, I just, I can hear it. Where was I? What was I saying?

44:07Jawad MirYou were talking about

44:09Salvatore TotinoW…

44:09Jawad Mir... Two opponents…

44:10Salvatore TotinoOh, yeah, two opponents

44:11Jawad Mir... Who were boxers.

44:11Salvatore TotinoYou know, 'cause if you look at and you s… you know, see there are boxing opponents, sports athletes that are opponents, and they're friends off court… ... Out of the ring, you know? There's… some humanity to them i… in that way. It's not just all, you know, blood and guts and evil…

44:36Jawad MirYeah

44:36Salvatore Totino... Des… destroying, you know? It's, it's, you know, part of it's a job they do. You know, even though it's, you know, you're an athlete, it is, it's your job, you know? And…

44:47Jawad MirYeah

44:47Salvatore Totino... They're happy doing it, and they're happy when they're, you know, playing and beating their friends or losing to their friends and they're friends afterwards. And, you know, it's, it's kinda nice. And but I think we need to remember that too. There was a moment…

45:03Jawad MirI agree with you

45:03Salvatore Totino... There where, you know, the gloves came off, and there was a moment of friendship between Frost and Nixon at that end there. It's nice.

45:14Jawad MirAnd just to kinda close it off, it's, it's in real world nowadays, whether it's in the celebratory world or political world or even, like, you know, average individuals, that camaraderie, you know, like, if you're having a competition with somebody, it's, it's not there as much as it used to be. I mean, the only time I see it is in sports, like in tennis, in football or, for example, I watch a lot of cricket, which

45:43Salvatore TotinoYeah

45:43Jawad Mir... You know, you have teams that are going at each other, but off field they're practicing n… next to each other. They're chatting. They're giving gifts to each other. You know? And that's so important to have nowadays because you have a professional relationship, and then you have a personal. They're two separate worlds.

45:59Salvatore TotinoPersonal, yeah, exactly.

45:59Jawad MirLike, you know, a… a… as George Costanza says is the worlds should not collide, so you gotta keep them separate.

46:05Salvatore TotinoSeparate. There you go.

46:05Jawad MirI don't know if you've seen that. Awesome.

46:09Salvatore TotinoBut, you know, I think, I think that competitive nature with athletes and that it's more of a competitiveness with yourself.

46:18Jawad MirYes.

46:18Salvatore TotinoIt's like yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna, you know, you have your opponent, but really, you wanna be a better version of yourself.

46:25Jawad MirYeah.

46:25Salvatore TotinoIt's like y… you know, your adversary is more yourself than your opponent you're playing on the field.

46:32Jawad Mir100%.

46:33Salvatore TotinoYeah.

46:33Jawad Mir100%.

46:33Salvatore TotinoIt's fantastic.

46:34Jawad MirEven when you're going for a job interview or anything, like, it's always you trying to pull out your doubts and trying to make them into confidence and trying to push yourself…

46:42Salvatore TotinoYeah

46:42Jawad Mir... Than anything else, right?

46:44Salvatore TotinoVery true.

46:45Jawad MirAmazing. Awesome. So much, man.

46:47Salvatore TotinoYeah, cool.

46:47Jawad MirI appreciate your time.

46:49Salvatore TotinoWe gotta talk about Cinderella Man at some point.

46:52Jawad MirI…

46:52Salvatore Totino... Making that film…

46:53Jawad MirWe would love to do it

46:54Salvatore Totino... Was just another, you know, moment of happiness in an amazing way where, you know…

47:04Jawad MirAmazing

47:04Salvatore Totino... I drew on other inspirational aspects. A lot of that film was inspired by a painter named George Tooker…

47:12Jawad MirOkay

47:12Salvatore Totino... And his look and his time period

47:16Jawad MirI would love to do that again. And, other of your films if you're up for it. I really enjoyed talking to you and your…

47:22Salvatore TotinoOh, great. Thank you

47:23Jawad Mir... Passion for storytelling, so I would love to do it…

47:24Salvatore TotinoI got a film…

47:25Jawad Mir... More often

47:26Salvatore Totino... I got a film coming out this fall that Bill…

47:28Jawad MirOh, okay

47:29Salvatore Totino... That William Goldenberg first time d…

47:32Jawad MirIs he a screenwriter?

47:34Salvatore TotinoNo, he's an editor. Five-time Academy Award nominee, one-time winner, William Goldenberg.

47:42Jawad MirOkay. What's the film called?

47:43Salvatore TotinoIt's called, at the moment, it's called Unstoppable, and it's about Anthony Robles, who is a one-legged wrestler who won the college national championship in 2011. You know, it's a story of, you know, overcoming disability, overcoming adversity at home and

48:06Jawad MirThat's amazing

48:07Salvatore Totino... And Anthony, you know, An… Anthony's an incredible person. You meet him today, and he's just so inspiring to be around. Holds a few Guinness Book of World Records. He was born without a leg and without part of a hip, and, you know, for his…

48:21Jawad MirWow

48:21Salvatore Totino... Life he was told he couldn't do things. And he, and he just walks in the room and makes you feel like is anything in life you wanna do you can do. So yeah, so Billy, it's his first time directing.

48:36Jawad MirI'm just looking at the cast. So there's Jennifer Lopez…

48:38Salvatore TotinoYeah

48:38Jawad Mir... John Chido, right?

48:40Salvatore TotinoYeah, John Chido.

48:41Jawad MirMichael Peña.

48:43Salvatore TotinoBobby Cannavale

48:44Jawad Mir... Yeah, big cast. Yes.

48:45Salvatore TotinoBobby Cannavale, Jharrel Jerome.

48:50Jawad MirThat's amazing. I'm excited to see that. And th… I love those kind of stories too.

48:54Salvatore TotinoYeah.

48:55Jawad MirSo I'd love to chat about that too. You got another film on the wrist to talk about.

48:58Salvatore TotinoYeah. It'll be out this fall. I'm…

49:00Jawad MirIs it on theaters or platforms?

49:02Salvatore TotinoWell, I think it'll be out in the theaters, they're talking about for a couple weeks, and on Amazon as well.

49:09Jawad MirAwesome.

49:10Salvatore TotinoWe color timed it for a theatrical release as well, and a… as well as an HDR release.

49:17Jawad MirThat's awesome. Is it, is the trailer out yet? I haven't seen anything.

49:20Salvatore TotinoNope, not yet. No.

49:21Jawad MirYeah. Okay.

49:22Salvatore TotinoThe trailer probably'll hit sometime September.

49:26Jawad MirOkay. So it's one of those

49:27Salvatore TotinoThere's been a few visual effects to be done, and the film's done. It's finished into editing. Billy's onto, he's back on his, with his editing hat on, and he's doing, Paul Greengrass' current film.

49:42Jawad MirI love Paul Greengrass too. What…

49:43Salvatore TotinoYeah

49:43Jawad Mir... Are you shooting anything coming up? Anything scheduled that you can talk about?

49:46Salvatore TotinoNo, just some commercials at the moment. I'm, I'm sort of looking for the right story. It's, it, the work environment's a little slow at the moment…

49:57Jawad MirYeah

49:58Salvatore Totino... Because this potential strike. What, you know, they just want the contract to be, completed and signed and delivered before they stop pouring more money into productions. It seems like they have a tentative deal with the film technicians, IATSE. It's still negotiating with the Teamsters, which is

50:23Jawad MirOkay

50:24Salvatore Totino... Certainly interesting. Yeah.

50:26Jawad MirOkay. Well, I'm sure things will, I mean, pick up, and it's not, I mean, even in w… the world that I am in documentaries and everything, it's just, you know, slow. E… even in the business.

50:38Salvatore TotinoWell, yeah.

50:38Jawad MirEverywhere it's slow. The economy's kind of... But it will pick up, I'm sure. I'm sure it will pick up.

50:42Salvatore TotinoYeah.

50:43Jawad MirBut thank you so much.

50:43Salvatore TotinoWell, people need to see things.

50:45Jawad MirYes. We ma… need to make great stories.

50:47Salvatore TotinoAll right.

50:47Jawad MirThank you so much, man. I appreciate your time.

50:49Salvatore TotinoThank you. Have a good day.

50:51Jawad MirYou too. Bye-bye.