'Inside Out 2', Editor, Maurissa Horwitz

0:00Maurissa HorwitzI got really lucky that Lisa came to the studio one time. She was on a book tour, and her daughter came too. And so they came to my office and watched some stuff, and I was like, "Can I just ask you one question? How is anxiety good for us? You know, like, how can it help teenagers? What is the good side?" And she's like, "Oh, en… you know," I mean, sorry, envy. Envy's amazing. Like, it can help you set goals.

0:22Maurissa HorwitzIt can be motivating. It's about, like, looking at the world and people around you and saying, "Oh, I would like to be more like that. I..." You know, like, they are the captain of the hockey team. What do I need to do to achieve that goal? And it's only when... And actually, that like, especially within teenagers, when they don't have control over the situation, so things like having a luxury handbag that, you know, your friend has, but you just don't have the money for that's when envy gets, ugly.

0:58Jawad MirWelcome to Kingdom of Dreams Podcast. I actually saw Inside Out 2, believe it or not, yesterday.

1:06Maurissa HorwitzReally?

1:07Jawad MirYeah.

1:08Maurissa HorwitzWow. I'm honored.

1:09Jawad MirYeah, because I am, I had meant to see it with my, with my kids, but they went with their cousins, and it just got busy. But I made a point yesterday to obviously, you know, because we're gonna chat, because I loved the first one, and I knew that this was gonna be special with all the new emotions and everything. And what a wonderful little film. Thank you so much for being part of it. It was truly amazing experience.

1:30Maurissa HorwitzOh. Oh, thank you. Good. Well, I'm glad it's fresh to talk about for you, so

1:35Jawad MirYes

1:35Maurissa Horwitz... It's definitely embedded in my brain, so

1:38Jawad MirYeah, I actually, when the credits started rolling, I was going down the steps, and I'm waiting for your name to pop up, and as I'm about to go out the door and I see, I'm like, "Okay, there she is." And, I exited. So it was really cool.

1:48Maurissa HorwitzOh, you didn't even stay for the secret final scene.

1:51Jawad MirOh, no. There is a scene? Okay. Well, that's okay.

1:53Maurissa HorwitzMaybe your kids stayed for it.

1:55Jawad MirProbably. They love that kind of stuff. You know, I just had to get out and get going and to take care of some things. But

2:01Maurissa HorwitzYeah

2:01Jawad Mir... But, you know, good to know that you're, I mean, you mentioned this in the email, but obviously going through your credits that you had worked with Tim Johnson… ... At DreamWorks and other things. What are, you know, so that's where your career sort of began before we get into Inside Out 2, at DreamWorks?

2:19Maurissa HorwitzYeah. Well, I actually started in live action, so my very first feature was a live action movie by Robert Altman, Dr. T & the Women.

2:26Jawad Mirhuh.

2:27Maurissa HorwitzAnd then I also worked on One Hour Photo as the apprentice, with Jeff Ford as the lead editor, and that was an amazing experience. And then, yeah, a woman I had met when I interned, Susan Fitzer, she was an amazing mentor to me, and she's the one that pulled me onto the Robert Altman movie. And then we stayed in touch, and she transitioned into animation and called me when she was on Over the Hedge and said, "I know you've never worked in animation. I'll train you in the parts you don't know, but, you know, I'd love to work with you again, and I think you'll really like it." And so she pulled me over to DreamWorks. Yeah, working with Tim and Karey was my first job on Over the Hedge, and I loved animation. I love how collaborative it is. I love just, how much people really invest in each other and invest themselves in the movie. So yeah, I've, I've been hooked ever since.

3:16Jawad MirThat's amazing. That's amazing. So tell me how you got... I mean, obviously you're at Pixar, so that's one reason. You know, but being involved in Inside Out 2, and how did that journey sort of start

3:31Maurissa HorwitzSure

3:31Jawad Mir... Based on what you were doing?

3:32Maurissa HorwitzYeah. So I had actually, moved to Connecticut to be the lead editor on Nimona. And, I was there whe… you know, I loved working with, Troy and Nick, and working on that movie, it meant a lot to me. And, you know, unfortunately, Blue Sky was shut down, and, but fortunately, I found out that Pixar was open to hiring a lead editor from outside the company, which, you know, pretty much almost never happens. So I was really excited, and I applied. And keep in mind, I had applied for the Pixar internship and didn't get it. I had applied for assistant editor roles at Pixar and never got them. So I knew it was a long shot, but I wanted to try. And, Pixar had been kind of related to Nimona. Like, they had seen a few of our screenings and stuff along the way. So, a few of the people there were kind of aware of me and Nimona. And, I had a gauntlet of interviews. I met with six different teams the day I interviewed at Pixar, and I didn't really know who might be interested in me or which shows, but I knew that Inside Out 2 was the project I was really hoping for.

4:39Maurissa HorwitzAnd, I got a call that Mark and Kelsey wanted me, and I was just so ecstatic 'cause I loved the first movie. It's such an amazing world to get to explore and enjoy and connect to. So, it was a real… really exciting moment when I got that call.

4:56Jawad MirThat's amazing. You know, we all have sort of grown up with Pixar, right? Like, you know, from Toy Story onwards. For me personally, I have seen every Pixar movie and more or less enjoyed every one of them up until Onward.

5:13Jawad Mir... I think that's what it's called, right? And then I wasn't too crazy about kind of some of the films that came in between. But when I saw Inside Out 2 yesterday, it just brought back that whole feeling. And this is just a personal view. It doesn't mean that's how they were. You know, that whole feeling of Pixar for me, like the reason I got into, you know, Toy Story at the first place, and Incredibles and o… all these other, Finding Nemo, Finding Dory, and all these incredible films. It just had so much heart, and it's relatable at every level, right? Because all those emotions are something that we go through. And, you know, dealing with anxiety, emotion, you know, the... I'm just curious how, h… when you're editing something like that, naturally everybody who's watching it or directing it or editing it or doing music, they're going through all those emotions. Right?

6:06Maurissa HorwitzAbsolutely.

6:07Jawad MirWhat were the emotions that you were going through at the time? You know, it's natural to be a…... You know, all those things. Like, if you wanna share anything about that'd be, that'd be really cool to hear.

6:17Maurissa HorwitzYeah, absolutely. First of all, yeah, I'm so happy to hear you connected with it, and I… it's meant so much to hear from friends and family members and, you know, just about the conversations that it sparked, the movie, and just how relatable it feels 'cause I think we all on the crew brought so much of ourselves to the movie and talked about our own personal experiences as 13-year-olds and also, like, what people saw their kids going through. So we really wanted it to feel true and relatable, and yet a very, you know, unique story to Riley and who she is as well. So, you know, I will say it was a careful balance when we were editing of, like, how much anxiety is too much, you know, for the movie and for you to want to, you know, be part of the movie the whole way along. And it was something when we were recording our reference actors, our reference actresses who were Anxiety, you know, until we would record. Maya did amazing, and, like, they worked so hard, but Maya brought such an empathy to that character just through her voice and her performance that really, helped with the balance of, like, believing that Anxiety wants the best for Riley and you wanting to spend time with Anxiety.

7:29Maurissa HorwitzBecause if she's just ratcheted up to a 10 the whole time, the audience cannot like even I as an audience of our internal screenings, like, you know, it wasn't fun to sit through. So it's something that we really worked through, and certainly during the different phases of the movie, I probably went through every emotion you saw on screen, you know? 'cause we all just were working so hard, you know, to make this movie the best it could be, and we all just wanted it to be great.

7:56Jawad MirOne of the coolest things about Anxiety, emotion was, and that goes to hats off to the animators, directors, and everybody else, is that c… constant face that Anxiety had, like that smile, but there was no smile, literally is when I imagine now, you know, think about in, when I think about the emotion anxiety just in general or read about it, that's the reference point that comes to mind now. And it… it's just, yeah, it's just beautiful the way that was film was done. You know, your process in editing it, tell me a bit about it. I mean, I've spoken to a lot of animation directors and, you know, I know the process of post-production animation is somewhat different, in some cases quite a bit different than live action.

8:41Jawad MirTell me about that process because you had done a little bit of work on live action. So just differentiating that and, you know, telling our audience what that's about.

8:49Maurissa HorwitzSure. So the biggest difference is that in live action, if it, we really simplify things, that, you know, editorial starts after the shoot is done, you know? Like, everything's shot and then edit starts. You know, they'll slowly ramp up during the shoot in terms of showing dailies and starting rough cuts of scenes. Versus in animation, we're really doing the most editing, the most iteration, and creative editing work before the shoot starts because we consider the shoot animation, right?

9:17Maurissa HorwitzSo the best time, the most affordable time and, like, the most creative time for us to iterate is when we're in the storyboard phase, so before anything enters that 3D digital pipeline. Layout is also a very iterative phase here at Pixar, which is great. We're really exploring with the camera and continuing to reshape the scenes. But once it gets to animation, like, we really need to have our dialogue locked in. You know, every frame matters in terms of hitting deadlines, like getting everything together, and the amount of work involved. And animation's also then feeding departments like effects and simulations, so that's like cloth, hair, fire, water, all of that, you know, if a f… a few frames change for them, it really starts impacting a lot of people at once. So that's why I love it is, like, there's so much exploration time the first year and a half, two years, you know, when you're in story. It's a, it's a wonderfully creative time where edit and story work together so closely with the director.

10:14Jawad MirWhat's the time duration that you worked on Inside Out 2 from the first day until, you know, the final screening and it was locked and everything?

10:23Maurissa HorwitzYeah so, I mean, I was technically on for over three... It's like 1,1100 days. I was just, I had to do a presentation for something else, so I know that it's like 1,100 days. So it's over three years, s… 'cause I was technically on until the release date. There's just, you know, there's still, like, archiving and other work we're kind of doing to clean up in editorial, which was great. Like, I was on as soon as that script got approved and they were ready to start board artists, I was brought on. So I've been through every single iteration, which this movie changed a lot through every internal screening. We had emotions that came and went, all of that. So I feel very embedded in this story and these characters.

11:06Jawad MirWhat were some of the emotions that came and went?

11:08Maurissa HorwitzYeah. So, our very first screening, first of all, Riley didn't play hockey. She played ukulele in a talent show, which was, like, a huge thing that we realized by the second screening we wanted hockey back. But that screening we had, I think, eight new emotions come in, so it was still Anxiety, Ennui, Embarrassment were there, but it was also, and Envy, Suspicion, Infatuation, Surprise, and oh, Schadenfreude, was the last one. So, you know, we put that screening up, and we quickly realized, like, eight new characters, it's just, it's so much to keep…

11:47Jawad MirToo much

11:47Maurissa Horwitz... Those characters active and busy, you know? Like, they're great. They're all great emotions and so much fun to play with, but you've, you s… you've already got your core five that you really wanna spend time with. So to try to, like, find arcs and storylines and all this for eight other characters, it was just, it was too much storytelling to try to do.

12:05Jawad MirI bet. I would be really interested to see Suspicion… If there is Inside Out 3 because that is something that I think a lot of us have a problem with. We're always suspecting of others and what they're up to and what they're not up to. That would be really cool…

12:17Maurissa HorwitzAbsolutely

12:17Jawad Mir... Thing to explore.

12:18Maurissa HorwitzIt's funny, Suspicion made it through a couple screenings, and the first, like, you know, character designs are still going on while we're boarding, so nothing's finalized. But the first version…

12:27Jawad MirYeah

12:27Maurissa Horwitz... Of Suspicion had, like, a trench coat and, like, a hat, kind of looked around, darted eyes. And then the second version went more into, like, rebellion suspicion, and so it was kind of punk rock. It… anyway, it was just interesting to have a few different takes on it before we had to say goodbye.

12:41Jawad MirThat is so cool. That is really cool. What was it working, like, with the... You know, how big was your team, first of all, in post…

12:47Maurissa HorwitzSo…

12:48Jawad Mir... Post-production?

12:49Maurissa HorwitzYeah. So my team kind of ebbed and flowed depending on the cycles we were in, but kind of my core team for the last year was me, two second editors, Dave and Fiona, who are fantastic, my first assistant, John Vargo, who was with me from, you know, the very first weeks of the show till the end, and then we had three second assistant editors as well as an apprentice editor. So it was a pretty big team.

13:13Jawad MirThat's awesome. And i… if you can talk about a little bit of your workflow from an editor standpoint, and the team that you mentioned, what would that be? Like, who would do what, and how that would come to you, and back and forth?

13:29Maurissa HorwitzSure. Yeah, I'll try. And again, it's something that keeps evolving. So, you know…

13:32Jawad MirI get it. Yeah

13:32Maurissa Horwitz... When we're... Yeah.

13:33Jawad MirYeah.

13:33Maurissa HorwitzSo when we're in the story phase, you know, my amazing team of assistant editors, they're responsible for every import and export. So when story has storyboards ready, they're getting them into the Avid for us. You know, Avid Media Composer…

13:45Jawad MirYep

13:45Maurissa Horwitz... Is what we're cutting on here.

13:46Jawad MirYep.

13:46Maurissa HorwitzAnd then when we have a cut ready to send back to story for fixes, they're the ones doing the exports, and that keeps evolving as layout comes on, as animation comes on, 'cause all those departments are waiting for a cut from us before they start their work. And so, you know... I mean, they're doing development and stuff. I don't wanna minimize the prep work…

14:04Jawad MirYeah

14:04Maurissa Horwitz... They're doing. But,.. And then our assistant editors also are essential for all of our dialogue. So whether it's reference dialogue, people around the studio, they are at every recording session. They log it. They transcribe it. They do a lot of organizational work so that basically, you know, if Amy Poehler recorded a line in year one, I can find it in year three just based off, you know, a word search. So that's... The organization that they do is essential for us because of the long lifespan of these projects. You know, John Vargo, the first assistant, is managing their workload. We work really closely to help figure out priorities and kind of what's, you know, look for roadblocks ahead. And then me, Dave, and Fiona, we're splitting up the sequences for editing. So, you know, we'll each take a sequence. Dave and Fiona will pass them back to me, and then they'll be in here for the edit reviews with the director or the story supervisor as we're reviewing those sequences. And, you know, we have these internal screenings anywhere from about four to six months apart depending on the phase we're in.

15:05Maurissa HorwitzAnd so we wanna review each sequence at, ideally twice before we're putting all, you know, the screening together at least. I prefer to watch as many sequences as we can together. So instead of just working on one sequence at a time, getting to watch two or three in a row, 10-minute chunks. If we've got all of act one ready, let's put act one up. Just because I think context is so important, and you can really easily spin out polishing three-minute scenes. But then when you put it in, you know, in full context, you realize, well, it needs to be only two minutes. So we n…

15:37Jawad MirYeah

15:38Maurissa Horwitz... You know, we need to figure out how to get that time out, or maybe it doesn't fit in the movie anyway. So that's kind of, like, during the story phase, what everybody's doing. And then as we move down the pipeline, you know, layout's coming in, but certain scenes are still in storyboards. So because we do kind of… we're not sending everything all at once to animation. You know, everything's in different phases. So, then as we're recording our f… production actors, we're basically replacing every single reference line, you know, obviously with our real actors, and they do amazing ad libs and, you know, change the lines and add the funny, and we wanna make sure we go to those first so then it's re-reviewing the scenes with all this new dialogue, getting that approved with the director. You know, we go to animation dailies where we're watch… you know, seeing what they've done. So, we're very busy for the three years.

16:27Jawad MirNo, I'm glad you mentioned all that because people, you know, I al… whether it's live action or whether it's animation, it… I think sometimes people don't appreciate the amount of work that goes behind it, whether the film is good or not, because it's, it's, you know, it's a lot of years of your life, that you have sort of input a… as well as physically as well as emotionally, right? And…

16:50Maurissa Horwitz100%

16:50Jawad Mir... I just, I just wanna go back to something else right now. It's a tough question because you can't pick and choose. What would be your favorite, one of your favorite live action movie and animation/Pixar movie that you really... Like for me, Toy Story holds very special, right?

17:09Maurissa HorwitzOh, it's so hard because there's, there are the movies I love…

17:14Jawad MirThere's so many

17:14Maurissa Horwitz... From, like, a cinematic…

17:16Jawad MirYeah

17:16Maurissa Horwitz... Point of view. Like, I'm a huge Hitchcock fan, so Rear Window. I wrote two different papers on Rear Window in college 'cause I love it so much. But then Princess Bride I've literally seen hundreds of times just because…

17:26Jawad MirOh, love that movie

17:28Maurissa Horwitz... I love that movie. It is fun. It's adventure. It's, you know, all ages. And I'm a huge Muppets fan, so Muppet Caper. The Great Muppet Caper was just, it's just a movie that when I'm not feeling well, I just wanna watch The Great Muppet Caper. So there, you know, so there's that. And, you know, within animation, I mean, there's just, there's so many to choose from. I mean, when I'm, when I was little, like, Cinderella, I just wanted to watch over and over again, you know. And, you know, now with Pixar movies, I don't… There's so many amazing ones to choose from. I love Up. I love, you know, the first Inside Out. I love The Incredibles. I... You know, it's…

18:04Jawad MirYeah

18:04Maurissa Horwitz... It's so hard to choose, and especially now, like, that I get, you know, I get to know so many of the filmmakers involved in those movies and their hearts behind them. It's, it's hard, it's hard to choose.

18:17Jawad MirAnd this is something that's discussed a lot of times, you know, especially in the early days of Pixar. It's talked about nowadays too, but not as much. What is the core essence of Pixar that is different from other live action studios or animation studios?

18:34Maurissa HorwitzThat's a great question. And I hope I can... I'll do my best to define it. You know, Pixar is one of the last remaining studios that does everything in-house in the United States. You know, almost every other studio now has outsourced locations, and so it's really special for us to all be in the same buildings together on campus all trying to achieve just the best version of the movie possible. And the amount that everyone in the studio just wants to help every movie be the best it can be is really fantastic. You know? It's really not like this crew and that crew. Like, we got so much help from so many different, you know, editors along the way when we needed it when we were in a crunch, and I just, that collaboration, that teamwork, that striving for excellence, is just, you know, it's fantastic. And I understand, like, budgets don't allow for that everywhere, you know? And there's just a reality of it being a business, but it is such a gift to be working with such talent and given the freedom to, like, just really s… continually strive to make the movies the best they can be.

19:45Jawad MirAnd would it be fair to say that Pixar still operates independently from Disney other than distribution in terms of the production and… or, you know, just because Disney is obviously, they own Pixar, right?

19:55Maurissa HorwitzYeah.

19:55Jawad MirBut, is it still the same way as it used to be 20 years ago?

20:00Maurissa HorwitzI mean, I feel like, yeah. I mean, when I'm here, I'm at Pixar. You know, we do take our movies down to Disney one time during the cycle of production, and we get great feedback from their story teams…

20:11Jawad MirOf course. Yeah

20:11Maurissa Horwitz... Which is awesome. Like, that's a great relationship to have to get some fresh eyes, you know, before you're ready for a preview audience, and totally, you know, new eyes. But yeah. I mean, Pixar is definitely has its own identity and its own culture and is, you know, very much a community here in the Bay Area.

20:31Jawad MirLovely. Where is it in Bay Area, Pixar? I've visited the Bay Area quite often. I…

20:35Maurissa HorwitzOh, sure. We're in Emeryville, so we're across from San Francisco…

20:38Jawad MirAh

20:38Maurissa Horwitz... In the East Bay.

20:39Jawad MirYes. I know exactly where that is. Awesome. I gotta, I gotta pop in one of the days when it gets…

20:44Maurissa HorwitzYeah

20:44Jawad Mir... Sort of…

20:45Maurissa HorwitzCome for a visit

20:47Jawad MirYou know, going back to Inside Out 2, do you remember a specific day? And this is not for any controversy or drama. It's just because, you know, we always have our days where we're tired or days where we're not, and it's just, that's life.

21:03Maurissa HorwitzYeah.

21:03Jawad MirDo you remember a specific day when you were working on a particular scene where, you know, you, like a brain freeze or you couldn't move forward because... And how you sort of dealt with that?

21:14Maurissa HorwitzThat's a great question.

21:15Jawad MirAs with emotions that you have.

21:17Maurissa HorwitzSure. No, that's a great question. I think it was usually less about a scene and kind of like watching a chunk of scenes together and being like, ah, like, you know, what's... You know, kind of feeling like, oh, I feel like there's something missing. Like, what ideas do I have to kind of get this to the next level or, you know, get this true to what we're trying to say in this movie? And sometimes it's when I'm working alone late at night. You know? Like, the rest of the team's gone home, and I'm kinda catching up on work and putting things together to check on things and,.. But what's great is knowing every day that it is a collaborative process, so if I don't have the answer, like, the most important thing is to talk about it with these amazing creative minds around me, and figure out a way through it, and a way to make it better. But yeah. I mean, every show is hard, and certainly, you know, we had a lot of crunch times in the end the last six months. But, it was amazing how in sync everyone was by then in terms of just delivering great work.

22:21Maurissa HorwitzSo whatever you were getting was awesome. It was just a matter of, like, there was a lot of it coming in.

22:27Jawad MirSure. No, that's a great answer. Thank you so much for sharing that. Was there s… and now you kinda touched upon it a little bit. I mean, you talked about different emotions, but was there a specific scene that you really liked…

22:42Jawad Mir... That had to go out? And if so, what was that? I'm sure there were more than one, but…

22:48Maurissa HorwitzSure

22:48Jawad Mir... If you have any.

22:49Maurissa HorwitzThere were a few. Unfortunately, we had to lose, like, a lot of, a lot of fun stuff here. I'd say my top two, maybe I'll say three. So my first one was we had this scene called Pool Party, which actually we ended up taking pieces and putting them in other scenes. But Riley showed up to this high school pool party in her, like, one-piece swimsuit with, like, a sun, a cartoon sun with shades on, and everyone else is in, like, bikinis and super cool. And, like, our story, the story artist who tackled it the first time, Becca McVeigh, she just really captured the, like, social anxiety and the awkwardness of, like, what do I do with my hands? Where do I stand? And, like, she leans on a table, and it starts tipping over. And, like, t… that is the part of the scene that we were like, oh my gosh, we have to find a place for that. So we ended up doing, using that kind of language with the emotions going off while we're watching Riley in Awkward Walk, which is in the final movie. But anyway, we didn't end up needing a pool party in the story of Riley, and that whole thing kind of changed dramatically.

23:51Maurissa HorwitzBut it was a great learning from that scene that we were able to kinda find a place for later. And then the one that we just couldn't is Procrastination Land was hilarious every time we put it up. Jeff Call boarded it and came up with a lot of the jokes. And it's basically the emotions were running away from, usually it was Mind Cops. We tried to def… we tried it so many different places 'cause we loved it so much, but they were running away from Mind Cops. And so they find, like, this access gate they run through, and only the audience sees that it's called Procrastination Land. So they're running, and then all of a sudden Anger starts slowing down. And Joy's like, "Come on, you gotta keep going." And then all of a sudden you cut back to Anger, and he's, like, on a couch And like they're all yelling at Anger, and then when you cut back to Anger, Disgust is next to him on a couch. Anyway, it was this hilarious scene, but it did... You know, they had to get stuck there. It's Procrastination Land, and no matter where we tried it in act two, it just slowed the whole…

24:47Maurissa Horwitz... Movie down.

24:48Jawad MirYeah.

24:48Maurissa HorwitzAnd we just, you know, Louise Smythe, who was our story lead, like always called it, you know, like, "Oh, it's like the poppy scene in Wizard of Oz." Like maybe it can, you know, then you wanna launch them into the... And we tried, you know, we tried at the end of act two, and, you know, we just couldn't find a spot for it that didn't stop the whole movie. And I think because we had the vault scene, which is a hilarious scene, and I love it, but it's also them kind of in one place for a while, to have another one in that similar vein of like they're just stuck somewhere. It, anyway, it was just hard to do them both, and we loved the vault scene so much. It was definitely staying. So rest in peace, Procrastination Land.

25:28Jawad MirOh, thank you so much for sharing that as well. What, do you remember the first lo… maybe I'll ask this question in two different parts. So the first screening, which was where the film was more or less done slash a… and/or the final locked version being in the theater and just, you know, that's something that I always do when I have a film that I, it's playing in the movie theater. I don't care about what's on the screen, I care about how the audience is reacting to it, right?

25:58Maurissa HorwitzYeah.

25:58Jawad MirLike a lot of us do. Do you remember that moment and just kinda that set of emotions that we're going through, being a part of such a beautiful film as well?

26:06Maurissa HorwitzYeah, I mean, it's, it's an interesting thing being in editorial 'cause, like we've seen it up at Skywalker. We've seen it, you know, like it's so much that, yeah, definitely the first time you're with a new audience, and I think we had some friends and family screenings at Pixar before it was released. So that was kinda my first time with a relatively fresh audience. It's still Pixar folks, but they brought their families, they brought their friends. And like getting to hear people laugh at the jokes that we've been living with for two years, three years, and also just like hearing some sniffles, you know, around me as the ending came through, it was really like, it was really heartwarming. 'Cause I think by the end of these movies, it can be really hard to tell, you know…

26:49Jawad MirYeah

26:49Maurissa Horwitz... You've done all the work to believe that it's working, but like you're just not sure 'cause you've seen it a lot. So, it really, it's been really special and like I said, you know, throughout the release just getting to hear from people about, you know, how their kids have enjoyed it, how it's connected their family. It's, a… it's really special to get to work on a project like this.

27:11Jawad MirI bet. You said ending. The way it ends is beautiful. I couldn't have enjoyed a better ending just, you know, looking at the camera and just smiling, and then, you know, did she get it or did she not get it, right? And was that always the case, or were there an… other iterations or versions of the, of the actual finale scene?

27:32Maurissa HorwitzThat was probably the s… the shot, that last shot was the one that got fussed with the most in terms of like, "Add eight frames. Take 30 off. Add 24 back." 'Cause we always wanted it to be slightly nebulous. Like, because…

27:46Jawad MirRight

27:46Maurissa Horwitz... The point of the movie is she'll be okay no, you know, we've gotten her to this place where she will be okay no matter what. But I think there was a po… but you still wanted to have an optimism at the end. You know, you wanted to feel that joy and that Riley, you could sense that Riley was happy. So it was just, it was a delicate balance. The animators kept bringing it. Like the nuance they were able to capture in her f… her expressions throughout the ending, but especially in that last shot, is just, it's beautiful. And then, Andrea Datzman, the way she handled the music I think really nailed that feeling as well with that last note.

28:21Jawad MirYeah. No, the music was great, too. Ev… ev… like, I mean, I said it earlier, everything about this film was, to me, what Pixar has been about for the last, you know, 30, 31 years, and it's just so amazing to see that. Now, would there be an Inside Out 3? I would love to see it, because, you know, you get to explore more emotions, especially suspicion. That's something I would love to see.

28:45Maurissa HorwitzOkay. I'll put suspicion on the list.

28:48Jawad MirBut, you know, at D23 Disney announced a lot of new projects that are coming out, and please correct me if I'm wrong. There's the new Toy Story coming out. There's Incredibles. There was a couple more that I forget now that Pix… do you remember which ones they are? Did…

29:05Maurissa HorwitzSo, you know, Elio's out next year, and then I think they…

29:08Jawad MirRight

29:08Maurissa Horwitz... Also announced Hoppers.

29:11Jawad MirYes

29:11Maurissa Horwitz... As well as the streaming series, which are amazing. I've gotten to see both of them, and they are so good. Yeah, I h… Win or Lose is unlike anything Pixar's done, and it's just incredible. I loved it so m… I was emotional from every e… episode, like in a really great way. And then the Dream Production series is great. Like I'm, I'll be actually so excited to get to go back to the Inside Out world, you know, when it comes out on Disney+ and relive it with Dream Productions.

29:36Jawad MirYeah. What are some of the shorts that you've enjoyed from Pixar? I mean, they, th… there's…

29:43Maurissa HorwitzGosh

29:43Jawad Mir... Quite a few that used to come out…... In the beginning. Remember? Like the Birds…

29:46Maurissa HorwitzYeah, it's so hard. Oh gosh, I feel like I need to study for this quiz. Well tell me…

29:51Jawad MirNo, I just remembered…

29:52Maurissa Horwitz... About your favorites.

29:53Jawad MirI just remembered randomly because I never have any questions prepared, so just like a random conversation. I loved The Birds one. I think that's what's, it was called For the Birds, right, I think?

30:03Maurissa HorwitzYeah. Yeah.

30:03Jawad MirAnd then there was

30:06Maurissa HorwitzThat's my favorite

30:06Jawad Mir... The old man playing chess. That was really cool. I forget the names. Obviously the lamp one, you know, the Pixar logo.

30:13Maurissa HorwitzYeah, the original. Yeah.

30:14Jawad MirBut, you know, Pixar has done some great stuff, and I, yeah.

30:18Maurissa HorwitzI've also really loved the Dug Days shorts. I know that only one of them ended up ahead of a feature, but like they're on Disney+, and they're just with Dug from, Up

30:27Jawad MirYeah

30:28Maurissa Horwitz... And Carl, and they're so s… every one of them is so sweet. I'm also a dog owner, so I, you know…

30:32Jawad MirAh

30:32Maurissa Horwitz... Extra invested.

30:34Jawad MirI bet. So Inside Out 2 comes out, next week on digital on August 20th, I think.

30:42Maurissa HorwitzThat's right.

30:42Jawad MirThat's what I read at least. And then it comes on DVD on September 10th. So

30:48Maurissa HorwitzI think that's right. Yes, that sounds right.

30:49Jawad MirYeah. And you know, you'll have a whole new audience of people to watch it again. Is... I know you're probably not allowed to, and, but I have to ask anyway, anything exciting you're working on? You don't, you don't have to say the name, I just wanna know…

31:03Maurissa HorwitzOh, I'm very excited. Actually, I get to spend some time helping other shows that might just be in a crunch period, so I'm actually really excited to just see what the other shows are up to and help out in any way I can. So yeah, it's a, it's a good thing for me to get to like, after being on one project for so long, get to like sample a few different projects and really get to know even more people here at Pixar. 'Cause, you know, obviously people have been here for decades, so only, I've only been here for three years. I'm still very much a newbie

31:33Jawad MirRight

31:33Maurissa Horwitz... Here at Pixar, and everyone's so talented and so wonderful. It's, it's great to get to, you know, expand my work knowledge with them.

31:42Jawad MirWhat's one fran… Pixar franchise, again, something down the road that you would love to work on that you know, could it be Toy Story, could it be Cars, could it be Incredibles, Finding Nemo, another iteration of it? What would that be?

31:56Maurissa HorwitzOh, gosh. I would... Honestly, I would love to work on any of them. Like, I just, I just think there's, there's so much to mine from all these amazing worlds that Pixar has created. I do love The Incredibles. They're my favorite family. I think, you know, if there was a way to explore the Up world in a new way, I, you know, I love that. And hon… honestly now, like, it's funny, usually after this long on a movie, I'd be kind of like, "I'll step away from those characters now." I love our emotions and the Inside Out world so much, like I would love to spend more time with them one day.

32:31Jawad MirI can tell in the excitement you have in your voice and everything that you truly had a great time working on this film, and partially probably because emotions are something that is part of all of us, right?

32:42Maurissa HorwitzYes.

32:42Jawad MirLike, we can all relate to a certain way.

32:43Maurissa HorwitzIt's so relatable, and it was so great to, you know, be able to like talk about your own experiences and what emotions come up, and then like kind of have the movie teach me about, you know, dealing with anxiety as well. You know, so much of... It was great to have, you know, Lisa Damour and Dacher Keltner, like real psychologists helping educate us on tools that we should be using and like pitfalls that teenagers fall into. So it was, it was great to even kind of learn about my own teenage experience through, you know, through making this movie.

33:15Jawad MirYou know, just to wrap things up with the fact that you mentioned it, what was something that you learned about any of the emotions that you have sort of started to apply into your daily routine or your life?

33:30Maurissa HorwitzIt's interesting. I mean, I certainly think, you know, Lisa talked a lot about healthy anxiety, and that it is something we all need, and it can help us. It's just also needs to be checked when it's, you know, spiraling out and talking about things we have no control over or aren't happening right now, like that there is no indication that is gonna happen right now. So I think that's something that's been really helpful to keep in mind. I think as we were movie making, it's not something I'm really bringing into my life, but you know, for a while we had a lot of trouble cracking Envy. Like, it was really easy for Envy to be kind of a one-note character of like, "I want that. I want that." And, I got really lucky that Lisa came to the studio one time. She was on a book tour and her daughter came too, and so they came to my office and watched some stuff, and I was like, "Can I just ask you one question? How is anxiety good for us? You know, like, how can it help teenagers? What is the good side?" And she's like, "Oh, an…..." You know, I mean, sorry, Envy. "Envy's amazing. Like, it can help you set goals. It can be motivating. It's about, like, looking at w… the world and people around you and saying, 'Oh, I would like to be more like that.' I...

34:36Maurissa HorwitzYou know, like, they are the captain of the hockey team. What do I need to do to achieve that goal?" and it's only when... And actually, that like, especially within teenagers, when they don't have control over the situation, so things like having a luxury handbag that, you know, your friend has, but you just don't have the money for that's when envy gets, ugly. You know? Because you just don't feel like you have any control over making that happen. So anyway, it was just, it was such an interesting thing to learn from her, and then I think it really helped us, you know, crack the character of Envy to show the good and the bad. And then obviously Ayo brought, like, amazing hilarity to her lines and, like, did amazing ad libs every time that we mined for gold. So it, you know, it was a perfect complement to the character.

35:22Jawad MirIt's, it's interesting you mentioned teenagers. I think this problem lies with older people as well.

35:28Maurissa HorwitzOh, sure. Yes.

35:28Jawad MirProbably less. Right. Probably less, but I think the, all these emotions, right? Anger is good as long as it doesn't turn to rage. You know? You know, what are the... Anxiety is good as long as it doesn't drive you bonkers. Like, all these emotions, I feel that they're so necessary, but I feel, and it's probably because social media, again, this is not just limited to kids and teenagers…

35:51Maurissa HorwitzSure

35:51Jawad Mir... I even think it's for people like in, you know, in their 30s and 40s…

35:55Maurissa HorwitzOh

35:55Jawad Mir... Is that we tend to let emotions take over us, and sometimes even the littlest emotion, you know, like a little worry, people blow it up out of proportion. Like, "I have anxiety." No, you don't have anxiety, it's just called being worried about something. Anxiety is very intense, and I don't think people understand the intensity of anxiety. Like, the way it was in the movie at the end when everything was going nuts, like the anxiety was like at a, at its peak level, I think that's anxiety, right? So this, the film has great lessons and great stories and great characters that people will learn from, that you have to learn to deal with your emotions, not reject them completely.

36:31Maurissa HorwitzYeah, absolutely, and I think that's, that's something that's always been really important to Pete and Kelsey of showing, like, that every emotion within us has a good, you know, and has a purpose for us to protect us and help us. And so yeah, that's what we were, that's what we were going for.

36:47Jawad Mir100%. Awesome. Thank you so much, Marissa, for your time. It's been a delight and pleasure, to speak to you. I would love to speak to you in the future sometime, whatever you're working on next, and we'll, we'll, we'll do that when the time comes.

36:59Maurissa HorwitzSounds great. Thank you so much.

37:01Jawad MirThank you so much. Thank you, and, Inside Out 2 comes out in August 20th on digital and September 10th on DVD.