'Gladiator', Set Decorator, Sonja Klaus

0:00Sonja KlausYou've gotta remember, I didn't have a lot of money, so I was having to, like, go, "Well, how much is that?" You know, I was trying to do that. I was dressing, had Ridley, phone was going, radios were going. And I did the bed… bedroom, and I was exhausted. I hadn't been to bed for three days. And Ridley arrived on the set. He walked in, and he used to smoke cigars then, and he walked in and he went, "Who did this then?" Like that. And all the crew, a… and I'm not joking, it was like the parting of the Red Sea, they kind of all backed away, and I was left standing there in my filthy shorts. I was covered. I was filthy, sweaty, and I just stood there like this thing, and I just went, "Me." And he got his hand, and he thumped me on my shoulder and he went, "It's fucking amazing. Let's shoot this."

1:00Jawad MirSo it's been a long time since the first Gladiator came out, 24 years.

1:08Sonja KlausYes. It was, yeah, 24 years ago, yes.

1:11Jawad MirYeah.

1:11Sonja KlausAnd I went to see it. I saw it on Saturday at Ridley's winery, actually.

1:17Jawad MirOh, right. You mentioned that. Yeah. I actually saw it with my kids after a long time as well this past Sunday, in one sitting. So it's pretty…

1:25Sonja KlausThat's kind of strange. My son had never seen it.

1:31Jawad MirAnd did he, did he see it?

1:32Sonja KlausHe'd never seen it. He'd never seen it. He was actually 18 months old when, I did it, and Conrad was 27 on Monday. And there is a shot in the movie, and my son is actually in the film, but he doesn't know that he's in the film. And, he's inside a litter, the litter that Commodus' sister is lying in

1:58Jawad MirOh

1:58Sonja Klaus... Played by actress Connie Nielsen, and it's when she gives the money to the, to Russell Crowe's assistant, the guy with the scar on his face.

2:06Jawad MirYeah.

2:07Sonja KlausThey, the prop men... I'd put Conrad in the litter for a nap, 'cause it was really hot in Malta, and it had curtains, you know, around it, and it was in this kind of quite cool place to keep it cool f… for Connie so that when she got in it wasn't, like, boiling hot. And, the prop men who were on standby, they just went and just went and picked it up, and they didn't, like... The curtains were shut, and they didn't look, and they just, like, carried it along. And they did, like, all these scenes with this litter without Connie inside it.

2:42Jawad MirWow.

2:42Sonja KlausAnd then when it came to putting Connie inside it so she could do, you know, lying down and she could do that line that she does, they opened the curtain and there was a baby in there, and I'd heard on my radio, this is Terry Needham, the first assistant, he said, "Oh," on the general thing, "There's a baby in the litter," like that. "Whose baby is it?" And, I was thinking, 'cause I was dressing a set, and I was thinking, "What an idiot. What idiot would put their baby in the prop? What idiot would do that?" And then I just went, "Oh my God, it's Conrad." And I got on the radio and I went, "It's Conrad. It's Conrad," like this. And Terry Needham went, "It's okay. Connie Nielsen has got it covered." And Connie opened the curtains. And of course she knew what Conrad looked like, 'cause she'd seen him so many times, and she cuddled him. And she said, "Oh, it's fine. It's just Conrad."

3:43Jawad MirThat's so awesome.

3:44Sonja KlausYeah.

3:44Jawad MirThat is such a cool little story. Very personal. I thank you so much for sharing that. I appreciate it.

3:48Sonja KlausIt's all right. No, things like that don't often... I'm sure you know these days filming is quite different.

3:55Jawad MirYeah.

3:55Sonja KlausAnd it is very different. And, you know, so things like that just sort of don't happen, you know, 'cause everyone's so paranoid about s… you know, security, and you can't have anybody to come on set. And I don't know, and it's not as... I don't know, it's just not, it's not as family as it used to be. It used to be very family, and everyone knew everyone, and you all kind of were in a foreign place together, and you all kind of looked out after each other. But now it's, it's not, it's just not like that. So I guess, yeah, that was, me, and I was a young mother, you know. He was 18 months old, 16 months old. And, yeah, so it was,.. And it was weird seeing it on Saturday. It was really weird, 'cause I hadn't seen the film on a big screen since it came out all those years ago. And I've watched it on the TV, you know, on the telly, but it's not the same, is it, as going to a big screen and having all the big sound and...

5:04Sonja KlausI mean, that soundtrack is…

5:06Jawad MirOh.

5:07Sonja KlausOh, I mean, that soundtrack is, it's just... You know, I hadn't r… I've... You know, you listen, you hear on the radio, don't you? They play, like, you know, the big one, you know. Dun.

5:20Jawad MirYeah.

5:21Sonja KlausAnd everyone's always like, "Oh, the Gladiator theme tune." But there's all the other nuances. And I mean, I just think he's the most brilliant composer. I... He just is amazing. And when Ridley pairs it with the imagery, you just have this,.. It's like the timing of it was all just so perfect. Y… you know, and I couldn't... And I kept thinking, that soundtrack, when I heard it on Saturday, I was like, "Oh my God, I..." It is unbelievable, isn't it?

5:55Jawad MirIt most certainly is. Give me a second. I'm gonna try to find something that's Gladiator relevant.

5:59Sonja KlausOh, okay.

6:12Jawad MirI probably won't be able to find it. But anyways, I'll tell you... Anyway, sorry, I can't find it right now. But anyways, I'll tell you a little bit of personal story of m… me and Gladiator, the fact that you mentioned this. It's nothing special as yours, but I had a very special connection with Gladiator, not being involved in any way with the film. But back in the day, in my early 20s, I used to run this website on a... A fan website on DreamWorks Studio. You know, DreamWorks was brand new.

6:41Sonja KlausOh, right. Yep.

6:42Jawad MirIt was brand new. And, I had a website on DreamWorks Studio, it's news and everything, but I had, like subpages within subpages on every single film that they were working on, including Gladiator. And when Gladiator came out, I... The traffic on that section went through the roof, and this is like pre-social media days, you know? Like, you just have a counter that you track and where…

7:07Sonja KlausYeah

7:07Jawad Mir... All that. And somebody reached out to me and they said... And we used to have a message board on DreamWorks films. Somebody reached out to me and said, "Why don't you create a message board on Gladiator?" Like a completely separate discussion forum, nothing to do with any of the other films. I'm like, "Why would I wanna do that?" Like, that's extra license for me for a message board, you know, traffic and all that. But in any case, I decided to do that. And I kid you not, that blew up so much that we had probably... I mean, now that I think about it, majority of the audience was 50 plus women who would come there and discuss anything and everything about Gladiator. Like, we had over 300,000 posts in a matter of months.

7:52Sonja KlausMy God.

7:54Jawad MirIt was huge. And it... I mean, I moved on with my life after 2007, but even in 2007 it was very busy.

8:03Sonja KlausWow.

8:03Jawad MirIt was just crazy, that film, that impact that it had on people. And you're right, the score is something I listen to this day. My son, he's a huge Hans Zimmer fan, and he loves it. And we... Yeah, it's just one of those films that you cannot recreate, and I'm a little bit skeptical…

8:20Sonja KlausI don't think you can do it again. I mean, I know, you know, Ridley's obviously done Gladiator 2, and I lo… I'm, I'm very excited about seeing it. I didn't work on it, because I'm not a set decorator anymore. I haven't been for a very long time. So obviously I... Arthur did it again, and you know, other people worked on it. But Ridley wanted me to go and see it. And, so I did. I went back to Malta, and of course I hadn't been to Malta for 25 years.

8:52Sonja KlausSo, a… and I kept thinking to myself... I mean, and I do think to myself, I just think what made Gladiator special, it's a bit like Blade Runner when Ridley did it, and a bit like Alien. What makes it special, it was one of the first films, I think, that in that genre... Of course, there was Ben-Hur and…

9:15Sonja Klaus... But that had a different look about it, didn't it? Ben-Hur had that kind of... You look at that now and it's very dated. And, but you look at Gladiator now, you know, 25 years later, I watch it on the screen, you know, on Saturday, and I'm like, it just is age... It's going with the age. It's managing to age beautifully. And I think a lot of that is because of that music. I think it's because in its day when it was made, I don't think anyone else had really done it like that. I think that it was yet again Ridley showing something different, and he is the master of that. And this Gladiator, obviously as you know, has got a rhinoceros in it, and he was terribly excited about the rhinoceros, and he kept going on and on about the rhinoceros. And he kept going on and on about how he was gonna flood the Colosseum, 'cause, you know, that's what the Romans did, they flood, flooded the Colosseum.

10:18Sonja KlausAnd I was like, "I know, Ridley, and they had like big battles in boats and, you know, they had loads of fire and stuff." And he's like, "Yeah, and I'm gonna do all that. I'm gonna do all that shit because we've got CG now. We can do it with CGI now." And I was... Whereas when we did Gladiator, when you see those CG moments of Rome…

10:35Jawad MirYeah

10:35Sonja Klaus... I mean, you look at them now and you kinda go, "Yeah, they're not bad." But of course when we did it, we were like the first people... DreamWorks, when they, when they got, what's... I forget his name, who did the visual effects. Really nice man. My brain's gone. And he came, and it was the first time that anyone had done that, you know. And you look at visual effects now, and of course it's a, it's everywhere. You know, everyone does it.

11:05Jawad MirYeah.

11:06Sonja KlausYou know, you can get A… AI to do it for you want. You can go on Midjourney and they'll do the whole thing for you. But w… it wasn't like that with us. That's why we had to build so much, was r… you know, we had to build it because it, we couldn't... There just wasn't, it didn't exist. You know, you didn't have it. So, like, when you see those chariots flipping, these days the chariot flip's probably all mostly CG. They don't even have an actor anywhere near it. But we didn't. You know, it was like the real thing going over. And I remember watching it happen, and you just kinda go, "My God, they're all gonna die. That looks so dangerous." And actually, I'll be honest, it was dangerous, but nobody... You know, like when Tiger comes in with the, with the chariot, he literally started outside the set, quite far back. Quite f… And he, that guy that drove that chariot, it's actually, he is Arnold Schwarzenegger's stuntman. He was Arnold Schwarzenegger's double.

12:07Jawad MirOh.

12:08Sonja KlausHe was so big and he, and he sounded just like Arnie. It was like, oh. B… And Arn… You know, it was confusing. And he came in, and he drove those horses, and those horses came at speed. And I know 'cause I was on the other side of the set, and I was up at the top looking down, and I remember... I mean, it was, you know, I remember he came in, and it was, and the doors op… thumped open, and he came in this... And he literally, like, it flew through the air, this thing. And I remember thinking, "Oh, wow," like that because it was so amazing to see it for real 'cause he really did it. But now, of course, we watch these things, and we go, "Oh, yeah, a robot did that."

12:58Jawad MirYeah.

12:58Sonja KlausI think…

12:59Jawad MirYeah

12:59Sonja Klaus... Me, that's the... I really do think that, for me, that's the difference. I think it's that daring, almost being, like, a Roman, you know? Almost i… it's like it's so real. You're like, "My God, humans really did do that, didn't they?" But then when you watch s… you know, films now, you go, "Oh, yeah, I don't really... Yeah."

13:23Jawad MirYeah.

13:24Sonja KlausNah.

13:24Jawad MirIt is, it is so true, and I'm glad you mentioned that because I'm a more of a practical effects person myself, just growing up in that era of the '90s, '80s. And, you know, CG... The thing with Gladiator, it used CG very smartly.

13:38Sonja KlausYes.

13:38Jawad MirYou know, there was, there was some shots that even when I was watching it last weekend, yeah, you could tell, but at the same time, you couldn't tell. It didn't ha… it didn't have that, you know, fakeness to it. It just kind of blended in, I think is the right word. But the whole thing with Gladiator, now that I watched it after a long time, I probably saw it 10, 15 times when it came out in the first year or so, but I haven't seen it since then. And then I watched it now and, you know, growing up and being in the narrative, in the film world myself as a director, and I was just trying to analyze it. Like, why did this film work, right? Like, just to kind of understand the psychology.

14:12Sonja KlausYes.

14:12Jawad MirAnd obviously, there was music. There was a lot of things, but I think the deep part of this film that made it work was the limited number of characters and their relationships with each other.

14:23Sonja KlausYes, and I agree with you 'cause I think... And also, you felt satisfied that you had enough information about each person. You had to work a few things out but not a lot… ... Which is always good to have to use your brain a little bit. But I think that you, y… you did feel, like, quite satisfied with who you met. Also, the casting. I mean, you've got people like Derek Jacobi in it, you know? It's like, oh, you know, and Richard Harris. I mean, come on. It's like... And that's…

14:56Jawad MirOliver Reed.

14:57Sonja KlausOh, Ollie was... I have a few things from Gladiator. I don't have much

15:02Jawad MirThat's okay. I'd love to see them.

15:03Sonja KlausYou know, it was a long time ago, and, you know, I'm talking about, like, items. I don't... People say to me, "Oh, you must have..." I was like, "No, I didn't." "Oh, you must have taken loads of photos." Are you kidding me? I mean, what do you think I was doing, going around just photographing all the time? Come on. We didn't have iPhones, for God's sake. Anyway…

15:23Jawad MirAnd I was working

15:24Sonja Klaus... I was, and I was working. I was running around like a twat most of the time. Anyway, I, Ollie was such a charmer, and I loved being with him. And h… we'd meet each other in the morning of the shoot, you know, whenever he was on set, and he'd go, "Sonya," in that deep voice. He'd say, "Do you want a cup of tea? Would you like a cup of tea?" Like this. And I was like, "Oh, I'll go and get it. I'll go and get it, Ollie. I'll go and get it." He's like, "No. Let me get it for you. Sit down." I was like, "Oh, I don't think I've got time to..." "Sit down, sit down." And we'd sit on these director's chairs, and he had one for him, and there was one for other people. Anyway, there was, like, one spare one. So I used to sit n… would sit next to him. He'd go and make me a cup of tea from the, you know, from the crew tea thing that was around the back.

16:15Sonja KlausAnd he'd come out with the two cups, you know, like this, and he'd say, and he'd say to me, "Do you want a little something in it?" Like that. And I'd go, "No, Ollie, I'm a purist. I'll just take the tea with the milk." Great. Anyway, he was always trying to get us to go for a drink, and I think I probably don't need to tell you that would be a no from me because I can tell you now there were a couple of people who said yes, and they didn't appear for a couple of days. And I was like, "Oh, my God. You're just idiot. I can't believe you actually thought you could pace with him the amount..." I mean, you just couldn't. Lovely man, but just don't go out drinking. Anyway, he kept saying, "Sonya," you know, "I want to c… I want to take the, you and the boys out. I want to take you and the boys out." I was like, "No, that's okay, Ollie." So I'd gone around these... We were filming on this, at the fort, at Cassilis.

17:08Sonja KlausAnd there were some old army buildings there that, where the British Army had been, and we did actually use them. They're actually in, you can see them in the background in the... 'Cause they were really good architecture, you know? They were, like, classical architecture, and they were that sandstone color. They were great, but they were quite precarious. And Proximo's quarters, there's that scene, you know, when Ollie's in his quarters, and then at the end…

17:29Jawad MirYep

17:29Sonja Klaus... When he gets stabbed by, you know, the Romans go up and do him in.

17:33Jawad MirYep.

17:33Sonja KlausSo that was actually in these buildings, which I had to, like, do loads of stuff to. Anyway, I, as I was walking around in the other buildings, so there were three blocks, I went to the far block, which w… we weren't really filming down there, and I was ha… just looking around. And there were ta… a, there was a tack coming out of the wall in a certain place. I mean, you have to understand that the ceilings had all fallen down, and it was all crumbly. Anyway, there were these signs there, and they were above the, faucet. And so I got as many as I could, as many as I could. I think I got about 10. I went all round, and I went, "Oh, these are funny. Let's play a joke on Ollie." So Graham Purdy, who was the prop master, said to me, "Okay." So the next morning, we all turned up, and we had string, and there's, there's some holes in what I'm gonna show you. And we had string, and we had it turned over, right?

18:23Sonja KlausWe had it turned over like that… Like that, right?

18:27Jawad MirYeah.

18:28Sonja KlausSo I had that like that on me, like that, and we had a piece of string in it. Anyway, so he was like, "Oh, you know, I thought we could go out tonight. We all go out tonight." And I went like this. I said, "Okay, one, two, three." And so we turned our signs around, and that's what it said.

18:48Jawad MirThat's awesome.

18:49Sonja KlausAnd, I found them. They were, they were, you know, they were on the taps on the wall for the British Army, and I just thought, "That is so funny." Anyway, he laughed and laughed and laughed, and that's what he was like. It... And it was like that. It's not like that, you know, you go on set now and they're all kind of a bit... They go to their trailer or, you know, where they're kind of, like, getting their makeup done every two seconds and whatever else they want. But he just wasn't. And when he died on that Sunday, I was... It was 3:00 in the afternoon, and I was in a... I was sitting having lunch with a couple of people. And the car pulls up, and it's Graham Perry, the prop master. He said, "I've just heard the most terrible news, and I wanted to come and tell you and not phone you on the phone," 'cause, he was coming to meet me. And he said, and he said, "But I ha… I've had to come," 'cause he was coming later, and he said, "I've had to come now to tell you." And he said, "Olly's just died." And there were about five of us at this table, and we literally sat there just like...

19:49Jawad MirYeah.

19:49Sonja KlausAnd I just remember we all burst into tears because he was... His voice, I know you can hear it on that film, but you've gotta understand, when you stand next to it was like a Formula 1 car revving up. It was like this rich, deep, incredible... And Russell Crowe's got that. Russell's developed that voice as he's got older. He has this absolutely... It's like this rich, textured... It's really quite something, and Olly had it, and it was just amazing. And we were all so terribly upset. And some of those shots that I think you probably know, you see in Gladiator…

20:31Jawad MirYeah

20:31Sonja Klaus... Are actually a body double, and they did…

20:33Jawad MirYeah

20:33Sonja Klaus... That was the first time anyone had ever done the face tran… you know, t… thing. It, literally, Gladiator…

20:39Jawad MirYeah

20:39Sonja Klaus... I think it was the first film where they tried it. And they just needed it because Ridley had shot, quite a lot of stuff with him, which, you know, 'cause he did some extra, you know, dia… bits of dialogue and stuff. And we got this body... And I will say the body double was quite amazing. I mean, from the back, you really couldn't tell…

20:58Jawad MirCouldn't tell

20:58Sonja Klaus... It wasn't Olly. I mean, he was incredible. And, it was just... But it was weird, and we were all a bit in shock, you know. But, you know, the show has to go on, and we had to keep going, and so we did. And, but I will never forget him. I'll never, ever forget that man and sitting and having a cup of tea with him, and I must've done that about 10 or 15 times. And I used to love sitting with him and having chats, and his wife would come and, you know, we'd talk about the house. And he just... I don't know. I just... You know, you get those people, you know, it's like Albert Finney. Being able to talk to people like Albert Finney, you know, they're not here anymore, but they're kind of special, aren't they?

21:44Jawad MirYeah.

21:44Sonja KlausThey're very special people.

21:47Jawad MirIt's the charisma, right, and the, that au…

21:49Sonja KlausYes. And I don't…

21:49Jawad Mir... That personality that comes through us

21:51Sonja Klaus... And I don't... I mean, there are some youngsters, I'm gonna say youngsters, but the ones under 40, under 50, and they, I f… they're great, you know, they're interesting, but they're not like them. You know, they're, they were thespians, weren't they? They were... Acting was a career they chose, but they didn't choose it because they wanted to, you know, have loads of plastic surgery and Botox and inject their mouths and people love them all the time and have their boobs done and whatever else. You know, they were just not... That's not who they were. And I think I really, I liked being with them.

22:30Jawad MirI can tell. And I think one of the things, and please tell me, because you obviously spent so much time with him, one of the things that I find now, even, you know, whether it's Hollywood, like, really t… up there or somewhere in the middle or somewhere in the beginning, people... Like, when you talk to people, right, just having a conversation, there's very few people, and I think Oliver Reed was one of them, who make it about you instead of about themselves.

22:59Sonja KlausI totally know what you mean by that, and I will tell you that he was that, Albert Finney was that, and Arnold Schwarzenegger is that, and Linda Hamilton is that. And they don't make it about them whatsoever. And also Cameron Diaz, she was so great with my son on a film that I did with her. And basically she just took him, and he went off with her, and she looked after him all da… all day. She just took someone... She took my child. And they talked about art, and she made... And she, and she said, "Don't worry, I'll get him lunch. I'll sort that out." And I was like, "Are you sure?" And she's like, "Yeah. I've only just come to hang out. You know, I got nothing else to do. I'm not on today. And I'll, I'll just look after him." I was like, "Okay." And Conra… she didn't... It wasn't about her. And Arnold also, when I did Terminator, Arnold was... He didn't make it, and he could've easily. I mean, it was Arnold Schwarzenegger, for God's sake. You know, but he didn't. He wa… and even, and when people came on the set, and, like, Conrad came as well to visit me.

23:59Sonja KlausAnd, you know, and each time Conrad came, he remembered what Conrad had told him about Conrad. And there is a gift to do that, and also to make it... Russell does it. He'll look at you, and I see how he looks at people, and he looks directly at them.

24:18Jawad MirYeah.

24:19Sonja KlausAnd he doesn't look at anything else that's going on around. He's not searching the room for someone more interesting, and he has this gift of looking at people, and he makes you feel like he really does want to hear what you have to say About what you do and your interests and who you are, and I admire that, and I think that's a very special gift. And it's not just actors. I mean, you know yourself.

24:46Jawad MirYeah.

24:47Sonja KlausYou meet people who can do that.

24:49Jawad MirYeah.

24:49Sonja KlausAnd it, you know, you feel... It makes you feel that you're worth... You have, you have worth. Whereas, you know, some of the actors and even directors I've worked with, you know, they're, it's all about them, and I'm like, "Ugh," 'cause I think they're a bit narcissistic really, you know. And it is all about them. And that they were not like that. Ollie was not like that.

25:12Jawad MirYeah. Yeah, no, I bet. I mean, his performance, like I said earlier, like, you know, you have people like Joaquin Phoenix who was starting his career, Connie N… Nielsen. Russell Crowe had just won an Oscar from the, I think it was The Inside Man, right? Yeah.

25:28Sonja KlausYeah.

25:28Jawad MirOr Insider. Insider. And then, Richard Harris, who played Marcus Aurelius, and Djimon Hounsou, who had come from Amistad, you know, in Spielberg's film. And

25:37Sonja KlausHe... Oh my God. I li… that man, I li…... I'm not joking. I used to say to him, "You can't say stuff like this now." I used to say, "Is it, is it... I want to lick you." 'Cause I just... No, but I just loved him. We just loved him so much. And one of the girls went, "Lick him?" She said, she said, "I just want to nibble you," like that, because he was so... Oh my God, he was just the loveliest person, and he was so warm and so lovely. And I don't know, we all just, we all just really took to him. He was, he was so... And he was so gentle, and he was so elegant, and so... Well, he was just lovely. And he was just like one of those people that's been so well brought up by their mother or their father. You know, he's really well brought up, and you just think, "So lovely how you are that you don't have these airs and graces." And he didn't. He didn't.

26:38Jawad MirYeah. Yeah, a… amazing stuff. So tell me, as a set decorator, I mean, the name explains it, the word explains itself, but what were, what were some of your pieces of work in terms of scenes that you were involved in, just to kinda get an idea of that? Or was it every si… single scene there was?

26:59Sonja KlausWell, I did all of the Malta shoot and a tiny bit of the UK shoot. So the UK shoot was two weeks, where they did the big, battle sequence in the woods. And there was a bit of, Richard Harris' tent. You know, his tented encampment.

27:15Jawad MirRight.

27:15Sonja KlausAnd some of the, tented encampment inside, i.e. Like Russell Crowe's tent, that was actually... I did that in Malta. It wasn't, it wasn't shot in the UK, so, like, I had to do that bit. And when he's looking at his... You know, he's got the wife and kid. You know, he's praying to the, them.

27:32Jawad MirYeah.

27:32Sonja KlausHe doesn't know they're dead yet. And, then, you know, there's obviously a crossover. So you have a crossover of weapons, crossover of flags, pennants, you know, all that kind of thing. Also, with all the horse dressing. So o… o… on the shows that I did, I did... I was responsible for all the horse tack, chariots, flags, greenery, all the props, you know, all the dressing of the sets, the furniture, drapes, also the big statues, all the light fittings that you saw, the huge braziers, food, a… anything at all, you know, a car… carts, anything like that came under my umbrella. And when I watch... I will say this, that when I watch Gladiator, I see the s… the... It's just a stupid thing probably, and you'll probably won't…

28:35Jawad MirNo, I won't

28:35Sonja Klaus... But when I, when I look at the emperor's box... So the emperor's box was, the idea of that, and I mean, the Colosseum exists, as you know, and The Emperor's Box is a very famous painting by Gerome, you probably know it well, whi… which has the gladiator standing there in that strange sort of weird helmet.

28:55Jawad MirOh, right. Yes.

28:56Sonja KlausStanding like that, and he's got, like, a loincloth on, and it's a very famous painting by Gerome. And you can see the... You can see the emperor's box behind. So that was kind of the inspiration for what you saw. And I look at it and I think just that awning that's on the top of it, you know, just trying to get that to sort of sit properly so it was straight and perfect and tight, you know, in itself was a feat. And also, the other thing that we had to do was we only had half a set. So when Ridley wanted to shoot the other side of the Colosseum, I would have to strip out everything in the emperor's box, take it out, and carry it across the dirt and in the heat, whatever it was, and we'd get, like... We had it down to about 30 minutes changing them over.

29:49Jawad MirRight.

29:49Sonja KlausBut it wasn't just furniture. I did, like, wrapping around the posts, I had leather for the emperor, and it was black leather, and you had to unroll it and, like, r…... I mean, it was, it was quite a feat. And also, those huge garlands that you saw, I made those myself with these hands. I didn't have a greensman. These days…

30:11Sonja Klaus... You have all these people that help you. I didn't have any of that, so I used to sit by myself with great big things of laurel and I'd be there. And I made the ribbons that... There were big, wide purple ribbons that kinda crisscross that I put on, and I literally sewed those in my hotel bedroom.

30:27Jawad MirWow. See, that's, that's what I miss.

30:30Sonja KlausYeah.

30:30Jawad MirThat's what I miss in storytelling, it's that…

30:32Sonja KlausYeah, but people don't need to do that now. They have, like, loads of assistants. I don't have an assistant either, by the way.

30:37Jawad MirI…

30:37Sonja KlausI was the assistant set decorator, I was the set decorator, I was the standby set decorator, I was the greensman. That scene where Russell dies and he goes, and you see he puts his hand out to go to that chapel.

30:49Jawad MirYeah.

30:49Sonja KlausYou know, goes to that chapel, and there's all the green grass on the ground.

30:53Jawad MirYeah.

30:53Sonja KlausAnd there's bits floating in the air. So that wasn't green grass, no. I had a Fiat Punto as my car, no greensman, and I went to my local buyer. I had a local buyer called Lawrence, who was just divine. He's not here anymore, he's gone to heaven now. But, and I said, "Lawrence, what we gonna do? I need some gra… I gotta do this thing. We've got, there's no grass." I mean, there's no grass in Malta. Malta's not grass.

31:15Jawad MirYeah.

31:15Sonja KlausSo I, we went together in the car and we went to the golf course, and he knew the groundskeeper at the golf course. There was, there is a golf course in Malta, in Valletta, outside Valletta. And he said, "I'm gonna see if he's gonna let us take some of the edge," you know, the way edge where the lawnmower doesn't cut.

31:34Sonja KlausAnd of course it was all brown, 'cause it's Malta and it's hot. I was like, "Okay." So I had a shovel. We brought shovels. So I had to go, I went five times in my Fiat Punto. You know how big they are, they're not very big. I had the seats down in the back, and we were digging dirt with bits of dead grass on it, filling my car up and driving back to the set. And I was dressing it on, like, as we were going. And then I got my painter, I had a painter, Jamie, and I said, "Jamie, you're gonna have to paint it green. We need some grass to spray the grass green." He went, "Okay." And so he just was spraying the grass. He sprayed it green, and then I was like, "Oh, okay, this is good." And then we did, like, a little bit of water over it, and Ridley was like, "Oh, that looks good, doesn't it?" And I was like, "I know, it's amazing what you can do." With no money, 'cause I had no money. Everyone thinks I had a huge budget. I had £40,000, that's all I had to do that whole, that film that you saw. 40 grand.

32:28Jawad MirWow.

32:29Sonja KlausAnd people... And I, and that's all I had to run it when I was in Malta. So the furniture was, you know, I'd rented it in England, so that was one bill. And then there was... But to actually run it while we were filming, all I had was 40,000 for, like, everything that I had to, like, you know, anything I had to do. And so I got back and then I was like, "Oh, something missing." So I got back in my car and I drove to my apartment, and I had a Harrods pillow made from Hungarian goose down, which is my favorite pillow. And I thought, "We need to do, like, floaty stuff, you know, like bits, 'cause Ridley likes bits." So I got a fan from special effects, a big fan. I said, "Can you bring a fan?" This has all ha… you have to understand, this all happened in a morning. This isn't…

33:11Jawad MirI get it, yeah

33:12Sonja Klaus... Night shooting. I literally was like, I had to get it done. And so I go there and I, and then Ridley said, "Right, we're gonna shoot now." Like this. So I had my hand... So when you watch that film and you see all the little bits floating through the air, that's my hand, and I was going like this with my Hungarian goose down, which I'd cut from the corner of my pillow. And I'm going like that in front of a big fan from special effects to make the grass move and this thing, and I'm going like this to make the bits float through the air. I was standing there doing that.

33:44Jawad MirWow. That's amazing. And it's amazing that when you, when you are sort of limited with resources and budget, the amount of things that you can pull off in that spontaneous moment.

33:53Sonja KlausWell, you have to, 'cause pe… but people look at that film and they think, "Oh, there must've been hundreds of... You must've had..." And I'm like, "Well, no, I didn't."

33:59Jawad MirBecause there's that personal touch, right?

34:01Sonja KlausAll that set, you go.

34:01Jawad MirThere's that personal touch that you have, and that comes across.

34:04Sonja KlausI think there is. And I think there is, yeah. And I think also, you know, I had four weeks prep. Four weeks prep I had. 'cause the previous set decorator sort of didn't do anything for seven months. I think she just had a meltdown…

34:23Sonja Klaus... And didn't do anything. And so the prop room was empty. There wasn't anything in the prop room, and I had four weeks to do what you saw.

34:35Jawad MirAmazing stuff.

34:37Sonja KlausAnd I lost two and a half stone…

34:39Jawad MirWow

34:39Sonja Klaus... In weight, and I had hives all over me from stress. I don't know. I do look at it now and I just think, "My God, I don't think I could do that now." I'm, I'm s… I'm 62 now. I was 37 then. I think I could if I had to, but I don't want to. I'm like, I don't want to. And I think I was just put in a position that it had to happen. You know, it, there was no choice. It had to happen. We were filming, it was gonna happen. And I was very lucky that special effects were so amazing helping me, and the plaster shop was so amazing helping me, 'cause I literally had to cod it together in we… days. And I was so lucky that I had Lawrence, who was amazing, local buyer. And I was so... You know, and I had Colin Fox, this brilliant drapesman, and he came with me from England. He just was sewing.

35:40Sonja KlausAnd Roland, who did all the beautiful sculpting, you know, came with me, and I had Jamie the painter, and it was just, it was mostly just us. And also John King, who was the supervising art director. I mean, I call him Dad. I couldn't do anything without Dad. He was s… he helped me, you know, 'cause it was, it was pretty full on. You know, a… and it's Ridley, so.

36:08Jawad MirYeah.

36:09Sonja KlausYou know. And he did actually say to me when I saw him... He didn't actually say it to me, he said it to Neil Corbould just recently. Well, before Christmas when I went, and he looked at Neil and he... 'Cause I kind of had left him. I was watching some shooting on Gladiator II, and I walked out of his trailer and he turned to Neil and he went, "She really was amazing, wasn't she?"

36:36Jawad MirI'm sure you were

36:37Sonja Klaus... He, well, it's funny 'cause he, I don't... He did say to me, when I, the bed. So the scene where Sabina goes and she goes into Commodus' room. I literally had, two days to do that bed with all the pi… columns and all the dre… everything 'cause it, there was no bed. And that's why I was saying that the plaster shop really helped me with it, and Lawrence was amazing. I was having... We were buying marble slabs in Sicily, and he was getting people to put it in trucks, and get on boats, and come and bring it to me. But Bear, you've gotta remember, I didn't have a lot of money, so I was having to, like, go, "Well, how much is that?" You know, I was trying to do that. I was dressing, had Ridley, phone was going, radios were going. And I did the bed… bedroom, and, I remember the day I did it. I was exhausted. I hadn't been to bed for three days. And Ridley arrived on the set. In fact, it makes my throat tighten up when I think about it. And I arrived, he arrived on the set, and, he walked in, and he used to smoke cigars then. And he walked in and he went, "Who did this then?" Like that. About the set 'cause he hadn't seen it.

37:54Sonja KlausI, he hadn't seen it at all. "Who did this then?" Like this. And all the crew, and I'm not joking, it was like the parting of the Red Sea. They kind of all backed away, and I was left standing there in my filthy shorts. I was covered. I was c… filthy, sweaty, hadn't been to bed. I was exhausted. And I just stood there like this thing, and I just went, "Me." Like that. Because no one, everyone backed off 'cause they thought he was gonna say he didn't like it. And he got his hand and he thumped me on my shoulder, and he went, "It's fucking amazing. Let's shoot this." And…

38:35Jawad MirThat's amazing

38:36Sonja Klaus... I just stood there, and I turned to Judy Bunn, who was the line producer, and I turned round to her, and I just looked at her and I went... And I just burst into tears 'cause it was... You know, you have to understand. It was, it was really a difficult job. And Arthur wasn't there. He'd gone off to Italy to go and eat pasta and find a location for that beginning scene. And I was on my own, and I just looked at Judy Bunn and I went, and I burst into tears, and she went, "Darling, are you all right?" And I just went, "He likes it. He says he likes it." Like that. And she went, "Darling, that's so great." And I just was like, it was j… I think it was all the, you know, the anxiety 'cause you have to remember, I was just thrown in at the deep end. You know, I was literally told, "Here's this enormous film. Sort it out." And, I don't know if that's what I'm saying to you.

39:36Sonja KlausI'm…

39:37Jawad MirI get it

39:38Sonja Klaus... I don't want that position again.

39:40Jawad MirI get it. It was that, all that hard work when you're doing it, right, and you're under pressure, and then you f… everybody forgets about the intensity and the amount of work that you're putting into, and then all of a sudden the captain of the ship comes out of nowhere and just, you know, congratulates you or thanks you, and he's not micromanaging you.

39:59Sonja KlausNo.

39:59Jawad MirAnd that, all those emotions came out, like all that stress that you were going through came out in that moment because he sort of accepted, well, not sort of.

40:08Sonja KlausYeah, and I…

40:08Jawad MirHe accepted it. That's why he remembers you. That's probably why he remembers you.

40:11Sonja KlausYeah, and I mean, we... You know, he did trust me. I know he trusted me, but you have to understand, I, you're, you're not, you don't think about that. You're not thinking about that at the time.

40:22Jawad MirI get it.

40:22Sonja KlausYou're thinking.

40:23Jawad MirYeah.

40:23Sonja KlausYou're, you're, all you're thinking is, "Oh my God, I've got this set to do. I've got that." You're just thinking... And I'm not wanting, I'm not a pat me on the back every two minutes. So that's why when I just told you what he said to N… Connie, you know, j… when he said, "She really was amazing, wasn't she?" That's 25 years, remember, for that.

40:45Jawad MirYeah. Yeah. No, I get it. And I think your work speaks for itself in the, in the film. And you know, I was in Rome two years ago, for a screening of one of my film, and I took two days just to get lost in Rome. Like, I walked around. That's how I like to explore. I just, I don't have any tour guide, nothing. And I went to Colosseum, and literally in my head I've got the entire Gladiator music tracks playing, you know? Especially like Now We Are Free.

41:16Sonja KlausYeah.

41:16Jawad MirYou know, that whole track at the end.

41:17Sonja KlausYes.

41:18Jawad MirAnd that's the kind of magic it has. Like, you know, the, especially lines like, "At my signal, unleash hell. What we do in life echoes in eternity." You know?

41:28Sonja KlausYes.

41:28Jawad MirIt has this, "And n… now you're home. You know, go to them." And especially I think, especially I got, I was really moved again after I saw Gladiator for a lo… lo… for a long time in a brand new context. You know, when Connie Nielsen does her little finale speech at the end, you know, "We used to believe it once. Make it b… believe us again. He was a soldier of Rome."

41:48Sonja KlausOh, that. I f… I felt…

41:49Jawad Mir"Honor him"

41:52Sonja Klaus... I, "He was a soldier of Rome. Honor him."

41:55Jawad MirHonor him. Yeah.

41:55Sonja KlausAnd I, it's that, and also that last line when he says, "We will meet again."

42:00Jawad MirNot yet.

42:00Sonja Klaus"But not yet. Not yet." And you, and the music, you, it... And they're very simple li… you know, it's, they're not complicated scenes. There's not great, long sort of speeches happening, but there's moments of s… I mean, I will tell you all the things I've done and all the jobs I've done. You know, I remember when Gladiator came out, and years later, and I've done other, lots of other things, and I'd had moments of amazing moments in places and I'd s… said to me… So what's the best thing you've ever done? And I went, "Well, I can honestly say I think I did work on one of the best films ever." And I do believe that. I do, and I've worked on lots of things that are amazing, that I think are amazing. But I do think as a film, for me, of all the films that Ridley's done, that I've done with him, for me, I just don't know how you make that, how...

43:04Sonja KlausIt was all, it had everything, and everything came together, and it was the right length, music, the actors, the words. There were lines, like you've just said those lines, which you hadn't heard for such a long time. It's like me, I hadn't heard them, you know? And you remember all the actions that they do, like when Connie goes like that with her head in her hand and, you know, she goes like that. She goes like that, 'cause she's... And it, I just think... And Joaquin was…

43:36Jawad MirOh

43:36Sonja Klaus... I mean, he's…

43:40Jawad MirAm I not merciful, right? That line. And the way he delivers it. And you see a bit, b…

43:49Sonja KlausAnd you think how, you think how young he was. You think how... They were all quite young.

43:52Jawad MirYeah.

43:52Sonja KlausThey were not... But they, there's a sort of depth to it, isn't it? You look at them, and yes, you've got Richard Harris, and yes, you've got Ollie, and yes, you've got Derek Jacobi, and, you know, some great actors. But the youngsters, and I am gonna call them that because they were the younger ones, they just, they had this depth of knowledge and history, like I have actually done that, yeah. So I am actually the emperor. I am. You know, and he, you know, he didn't... He, again, Joaquin wasn't like fanciful and... Not at all. You know, and he walked up to me... When he did the Joker, I hadn't seen him for 20... When was the Joker? A couple of years ago. So I hadn't seen him for like 20…

44:39Jawad Mir2019.

44:40Sonja KlausYeah, whenever it was. 20-odd years I hadn't seen him. And I went to the screening of the Joker, and I was invited to a sort of AMPA, Academy thing afterwards in London, and he... I went up to say hello to him, and he looked at me, and he just went, "How are you, Klaus?" Like that.

44:59Jawad MirOh, wow.

44:59Sonja KlausAnd I just went, "I'm absolutely fine." And he went, "My God, you look just the same." And I went, "Yeah, but I've got gray hair now." And I said, "You look amazing." And he went, "Do you think? No." And I went, "Yeah, you look so young." And it was really weird, 'cause it was... I didn't think he'd remember me. You know, even though we'd spent day, hours, y… months together, I was like, "He's not gonna..." I mean, you know, 'cause I see Russell quite a lot, so it's different. My relationship with Russell's different. You know, but I don't see Joaquin. But it was just, I just thought... And that's what I liked about, when we were talking about actors who make you feel like it's not about them. You know, and it's just, it's that I think, that you think all the hundreds and thousands of people that they meet, you know. And it was years. I mean, it wasn't five years. It wasn't 10 years.

45:56Jawad MirYeah.

45:56Sonja KlausIt wasn't 15. It was over 20 years, and, you know, that's something, isn't it?

46:03Jawad MirYeah, 100%. And Joaquin Phoenix, I mean, he's an incredible actor, and seeing him in Joker kind of reminded me of…

46:10Sonja KlausOh

46:10Jawad Mir... Commodus.

46:10Sonja KlausThat scene when he... Oh.

46:12Jawad MirAt... Yeah. And now the Joker Part II with, Lady Gaga

46:15Sonja KlausI can't wait

46:16Jawad Mir... Which

46:16Sonja KlausI'm so excited about it.

46:19Jawad MirYeah. And I mean, off topic, I was telling my wife the other day, I've never listened to Lady Gaga's music ever in my life, but when I saw that movie with Bradley Cooper, what was it called?

46:28Sonja KlausOh, Star Is Born.

46:32Jawad MirStar B… Star Is Born. I saw the trailer. I think she's probably the best actress out there right now.

46:38Sonja KlausShe's amazing. I mean, she's…

46:39Jawad MirShe is so natural

46:40Sonja Klaus... She's amazing at it.

46:43Jawad MirYeah. Yeah, she's amazing.

46:45Sonja KlausI know.

46:45Jawad MirBut

46:45Sonja KlausAnd I mean, I can't wait to see it, 'cause I, he, in that, was... But it was like Commodus. You know, you think about who he was playing. He was playing the future emperor of Rome. And r… the Roman Empire at the time, you know that, they were, they were taking over. They wanted to take over the world. You know, and you know, and he gave it that enormous scale which, I mean, I take my hat off to him, was not an easy thing to pull off. And he's having to act against Richard Harris, who's like, "I've done this a few times." You know?

47:24Jawad MirYeah.

47:24Sonja KlausAnd it was just... And maybe that was a g… you know, that was, that was really clever casting. You know, it was clever casting. And the lines…

47:33Jawad MirYeah, no

47:33Sonja Klaus... Is, "Have I missed it? Have I missed the battle?" And it's like... And it was the way he delivers it, 'cause he knows perfectly well he's missed it.

47:44Jawad MirYeah.

47:44Sonja KlausHave I missed it?

47:44Jawad MirNo, it was... He, everybody in that movie, I think from the casting to the crew, everything was, even marketing, you know. The general who became a slave, the slave who became a gladiator, the gladiator who defied emperor…

47:57Sonja KlausSo brilliantly done. The poster's brilliant.

48:00Jawad MirYeah. It was just masterful.

48:02Sonja KlausI mean, Neil…

48:02Jawad MirI mean, I can't... Yeah.

48:04Sonja KlausI talked to Neil Corbould quite a lot about that. Germania, you know, the battle in Germania.

48:08Jawad MirYeah.

48:09Sonja KlausAnd also Steve Dent, who did the horses. You know, Steve's a mate, and N… and Neil's a mate. You know, they're like some of my best friends, and I've known them for years. And we were all young. You know, we were all in our 30s then. We were all young. And, you know, we talk about it, and I just remember how it came together. You know, it wasn't, it wasn't months and months of prep. Ridley doesn't, he gets bored.

48:36Jawad MirYeah, he…

48:36Sonja KlausSo you have to kind of put your foot, you know, you have to get on it You know, and they did. And they, you know, all the horsework... If you look at all that horsework, all the pull-downs and, you know, they w… that was real. You know, they were real pull-downs, you know, but they weren't pulling it down like they do in some places where they tie a rope around its leg and they yank the horse down. That horse was trained to do that, you know. And it's so kind of real. You're like, "Because it was."

49:05Jawad MirYeah.

49:05Sonja KlausYou know, and I think that's what gives it some grit and some substance, and that's why I think it will be really interesting to see what the new one is like.

49:20Jawad MirYeah, I think the new one from what... Well, first of all, I mean, I know why they chose the music in the trailer, but it was just kind of like it didn't work for me. It is what it is. But I think the c… from a casting perspective…

49:29Sonja KlausI know. I'm not sure why they did that

49:31Jawad Mir... Well, it, I mean, you have a great score. I don't know if they didn't have rights to it or what, but it was just kind of bizarre. But, you know, Pedro Pascal is great. Connie Nielsen is back. Obviously, Denzel Washington, I mean, you know, you can't go wrong with him. But let's see. I mean, I... It's, it's just one of those films. I was talking to, m… one of the first episodes that I did on this podcast was two years ago with David Pozoni who wrote the s… who wrote the film, and it's... You know, we were talking about the sequel at the time, and one of the things that we talked about, like, it's very difficult to make a sequel because, you know, Maximus is no more, so how do you make a sequel on Gladiator? Like, you know, like, the whole thing. So I don't know how they would do it, but I'll go see it. But…

50:14Sonja KlausI mean, I'm gonna go and see it. I mean, you know, I do like, I do like Denzel, you know.

50:19Jawad MirYeah.

50:20Sonja KlausHe pulls it off.

50:20Jawad MirAnd it's Ridley too, at least, right? The Ridley Scott's done…

50:22Sonja KlausHe pulls it off. Yeah. He pulls it off. And, you know, it'll be interesting to see. I think, you know, I think the visual effects will be really great, because I think that, you know, Paramount will have spent the money, because they need to. But Ridley did shoot a lot of stuff. You know, in Morocco they were... They did all the…

50:43Jawad MirYeah

50:43Sonja Klaus... Fire stuff and everything, and they had the tank shots for the water and... But obviously they're gonna have to put it on because they can't, you know... 'Cause we… they built the same... The Colosseum was built in the same place in Malta when I went, and there were a few e…

50:56Jawad MirOh, did they? Okay

50:56Sonja Klaus... Buildings. Yeah, there are a few extra buildings down at the end, of the space that we didn't... When I was telling you when I went and found my sign. They kind of used a bit more. They put, they put a few more buildings in because basically what's happened at the fort is that the Maltese haven't really looked after it.

51:13Sonja KlausSo there's very big sinkholes that have appeared. So they had to kind of put stuff around it to…

51:21Jawad MirJust to cover it up

51:22Sonja Klaus... Just to cover it up 'cause it was quite bad. And the fort, you know, where all the bowels were, you know, where we did all the stuff where they ro… they go up like that to go into the Colosseum. So that same set of rooms was used again. And also where I did Proximo's, where I did Proximo's quarters where I told you where I got the thing, they c… those buildings have all been condemned now, so they couldn't go in there and, you know. So i… it's a bit sad 'cause I, 'cause it was amazing when I... You know, it's an amazing spot, but I guess, they just... No one wants to spend any money on it really. So it's eventually just gonna literally just... You know, and it, and it was built... You think about Napoleon, you know, Napoleon goes to Malta and builds all those incredible fortifications 'cause they're Napoleonic. You know, and you go and you see these walls and they're, like, unbelievably thick, you know. And have you been to Malta? You went…

52:18Jawad MirNo, I have not yet.

52:18Sonja KlausOh, you've never been?

52:19Jawad MirNo, I've never been to Malta. Yeah, I would love to one day. I've been meaning for a long time.

52:22Sonja KlausYou should, you should go just... If someone asks you to go. I mean, it's a sort of strange place to go for a two-week holiday, I'd have to say, 'cause I've only ever been for filming. I've done two films there and I, and, I've only ever been for filming and... A… and I went just recently. But it's a sort of... I can't imagine what you... I don't know because I was allowed to, like, go and rummage around everywhere. Like, you know, when you, when you go filming you can actually see the place…

52:50Jawad MirYeah

52:50Sonja Klaus... Can't you? And you can go where it says "no entry," you know. And I think that's what I like about my job 'cause I do get…

52:58Jawad MirYeah

52:58Sonja Klaus... To go behind that no entry sign.

53:01Jawad MirNo, I get that. I totally get that. Who knows? Maybe I've... One of the film locations for my film that we're looking into is possibly in Morocco, but if we don't get something there then…

53:10Sonja KlausOh, I love Morocco

53:11Jawad Mir... Maybe Malta.

53:11Sonja KlausI can't tell you how much I love it.

53:14Jawad MirYeah.

53:15Sonja KlausThe light in Morocco is just unbelievable, the light. I just, honestly. And the light in Malta, but the light in Morocco. I'm sure you know it well, but…

53:29Jawad MirYeah. It's, it's a interesting place, for sure, and I look forward to visiting or filming either in Malta or Morocco.

53:37Sonja KlausOh, that'd be exciting. So when are you starting that?

53:40Jawad MirWell, we're trying to do it some time later this fall, pending a few budget constraints. So we'll see. But, everything is in place. We've got, we've got a line producer, we've got a costume designer, we've got a music composer.

53:55Sonja KlausOh, great.

53:57Jawad MirYou know, a script in process. We've got two writers. Cast is not there because we need to secure, obviously, you know, cast with the, with the, whatever they need to, what their budget is and what their rate is and everything.

54:09Sonja KlausYeah.

54:10Jawad MirSo we'll see. I mean, just pushing really hard and

54:13Sonja KlausDid you write it?

54:15Jawad MirI came up with the story. It's a very timely story about what's going on in Middle East right now. And, it's a very objective point of view that I've sort of been getting a lot of slack for from everywhere but, you know, I, my job is to tell a proper story.

54:33Sonja KlausYou need to tell a stor… You need to tell what you need, you just…

54:36Jawad MirAbout…

54:36Sonja Klaus... Say what you need to say.

54:38Jawad MirYeah. Human condition

54:40Sonja KlausOf course

54:40Jawad Mir... Regardless of what anybody thinks. So that's…

54:42Sonja KlausYes, of course

54:42Jawad Mir... That's what it is. May… maybe we'll chat about it one day.

54:44Sonja KlausYes.

54:44Jawad MirOne of these days when it comes out. But it's been a pleasure talking to you, Sonia. I really love…

54:48Sonja KlausOh, it was really nice to meet you

54:50Jawad Mir... And likewise. And I... If you... Listen, I know you're retired and everything but… I would love to chat with you in future about other projects you've worked with and…

54:58Sonja KlausOh, of course. Whenever you like

55:00Jawad Mir... It would be a pleasure. And, it… just…

55:01Sonja KlausYeah, I'm just waiting... Like you, I'm just waiting for, I'm waiting for the green light. Oh, well, one thing's got a green light, but I'm just waiting. I've gotta just... I've... My agent actually is gonna... I've gotta ring him in a minute. So I'm hoping that's gonna come off.

55:16Jawad MirOh, so you are working on something possibly.

55:18Sonja KlausI've waited for... Well, I've wai… I also have been writing a script…

55:22Jawad MirOh, okay

55:23Sonja Klaus... For a TV series, and that's... There's a call tomorrow about that. I, it, I didn't... My fr… it's a, there's... Long story, but there's three of us involved in it, and it's actually set in Malta. It's set in 1563, about the Siege of Malta, and, we've been working on that for a year and a half. And, we pitched it. We actually pitched it to some people, and they s… said yes. So we're just waiting to see who they're gonna pitch it to for the money, 'cause it's all about the money, isn't it?

55:53Jawad MirAt the end of the day, yeah.

55:54Sonja KlausThat... Yeah, and I also, I'm just waiting on this one film, which, I met the director about a year and two months ago. And then, of course, 'cause of the stupid strike, it all went pear-shaped. But it looks like it's might be happening, and he's just the most... They're all just lovely people. And, my mate, Anis, has written a script, and he just got... The… they're not huge budgets. These are not... The telly thing is different 'cause that's a band for…

56:20Jawad MirYeah

56:20Sonja Klaus... Like Game of Thrones, you know, size budget. But the films are not, and I actually... You know, someone said to me, "Oh, you know, don't you wanna do, like, a big Marvel movie and a big, you know, thing?" And I'm like, "Well, I obviously like doing big stuff," but I've gotta be honest, I've read the scripts of these two, and they're just so great. I'm like, "Well..." You know, and sometimes it's, it isn't about how many sets I get to build or... It's also about, like you, it's, like, the director. It's, like, the relationship you have with that person. And life is so short, and you're like, "I get to have chats with someone with a great brain and have great conversations. Why would I not like that?" I've done all that big stuff. You've got to realize. I've, I've, I've had more money to spend, it would make your eyes water. I've had huge crews. I've dealt with hundreds of people that I've looked after. I've built massive things. You know, I did Terminator for God's sake. You know, and the thing is, they're great, don't get me wrong, and they have their place, but sometimes you read a script.

57:25Sonja KlausYou're like, "My mate, he's only got 5 million. He's got $5 million to make it." And I say "only," and you're probably like, "Ugh, that's a lot of money." But, you know…

57:33Jawad MirNo, it is only. It's nothing.

57:36Sonja KlausIt's nothing. You know that, and you know it doesn't go very far.

57:39Jawad MirYeah.

57:39Sonja KlausBut the thing is, he, we're gonna make it go far. You know, and the other movie I'm looking at, it's only $15 million. And, you know, that's gonna be harder, I'll be honest. I think... But I think once they, you know, they get... They might... There's a possibility they're gonna get another couple of million because of who they've managed to get in it. So, you know, the people they've cast it with. So they…

58:01Jawad MirRight

58:01Sonja Klaus... You know, that's the negotiation that's happening at the moment. You know, and you know how, you know, how money doesn't go very far. Does it? You know, and once you…

58:11Jawad MirIt gets... It... Yeah.

58:12Sonja KlausAnd actors, you know, depending on who you get, that sucks up massive amount of it, and then your actual working budget is, like, fiver. You know, and, but I wanna…

58:22Jawad MirYeah. Really well way to put it.

58:23Sonja KlausWell, you know what, you know, I... But I just wanna be with nice people n… You know, I'm like, I've got to the point in my career where I'm like, "I wanna wake up and go to work with a smile on my face 'cause I can't wait to have a cup of coffee with someone." You know, I don't wanna go…

58:40Jawad MirYeah

58:40Sonja Klaus... To work with fear and dread because it's just horrific, and I'm being asked stupid stuff, or the director's gonna have a hissy fit every five minutes, and I'm gonna have to pretend that I think that... You know, go, "Oh, of course. Isn't that fabulous idea?" You know, and I don't, I don't wanna do that. I wanna be me, and I don't wanna have to act. And, you know, that sounds easier than it is 'cause you and I both know that sometimes we have to do a little bit of acting. But I don't want... I wanna... You know, I said to someone today, "I just want people in the crew that are my friends." And…

59:16Jawad MirI... Yeah

59:17Sonja Klaus... I just want my friends. I, you know, I do. I've done all the big stuff, you know. I have done a lot of big stuff, and I might do big stuff again. I'm not saying I won't. But, you know, and if this TV show comes off, I'm designing it and executive producer on it. So of course I want it to happen, 'cause if I'm executive producer, I get my little points, you know?

59:38Jawad MirYeah, of course.

59:38Sonja KlausAnd that makes it a little bit more tasty, doesn't it?

59:41Jawad MirNo, that's, that's really awesome. And I think just to kind of sum it up and everything, I think what... As you get older in life, you know, when I say older, I don't mean, like, you know, 50s and 60s. Even in where I am right now, like, it's, it's, it's just in any kind of line of work, I think it's all about people that you wanna work with and building those relationships.

1:00:01Sonja KlausI am so there with you, and I d…

1:00:03Jawad MirThat's it.

1:00:04Sonja KlausThat, this, that is it, and I will tell you that is it. And I don't want politics. I... You know, I just wanna be a production designer, and I don't wanna have to deal with all the other stuff that, you know... And, you know, there's always other stuff.

1:00:20Jawad MirYeah.

1:00:20Sonja KlausAnd of course, you know you always have to deal with it. But it's just I don't wanna go on something where it's all about the other stuff, and it's actually not about the show, and it becomes all about surviving because you're having to cope with a line producer who's an absolute shit to everybody.

1:00:34Jawad MirRight.

1:00:34Sonja KlausAnd everyone's coming to you telling how miserable they are. And I'm like, "I want someone. I wanna be on a show where people finish it at the end and they go, 'We had such a great time.'"

1:00:44Jawad MirThat's it.

1:00:45Sonja KlausThat's what I wanna hear. And, you know, and that's why these next two things that I, you know... And my agent's, like, you know, putting me up for stuff, you know, big stuff. You know, I've been talking to Marvel about a big TV show, and I've been talking about other stuff. You know, and… And that's great, and I don't mind doing that. But it's just these two are real, and they're with…

1:01:09Jawad MirOf course

1:01:09Sonja Klaus... Real people, you know, who I can talk about my puppies to, and I can talk about my son, and I can talk about my tea that I like. And I don't have to be fake, and it's not all about them. They're not gonna tell me how amazing they are as a director, you know…

1:01:23Jawad MirYeah

1:01:23Sonja Klaus... 'cause they're not like that. And, you know, I wanna be able to sit and have a cup of coffee, like with you know, if we went out. I wanna sit at a cafe and just have a cup of tea or a cup of coffee…

1:01:32Jawad Mir100%

1:01:33Sonja Klaus... And talk about, like, if you've got kids, like, "Oh, so do you know, when you were little, do you remember when you did..." You know, it's those conversations I'm interested in. I'm interested... Like, you know, the job that you're doing next is, and I understand, you know, I don't know what it is, but I think if you... You know, it's like documentaries. I love documentaries because…

1:01:54Jawad MirYeah

1:01:54Sonja Klaus... I've met a lot of documentary people who they're so different to filmmaking people. My God, they're so different. And you meet them, and you realize this passion of these people who for, like, eight years they'll struggle to get a documentary made because they want to say something. And you then watch it, and you're like, "That is…"

1:02:15Jawad MirI... If you like documentaries, I'll send you links.

1:02:19Sonja KlausI love... I watch so many documentaries. I love them, and I think... I mean, I've watched some bad ones, but I've watched some amazing ones that have... Because I want, I... Those are the stories that you wanna tell.

1:02:34Jawad MirYeah.

1:02:34Sonja KlausThose are the stories. Those are the feelings. Those are the people that you wanna talk about. And people, you know what, and also people need to know about them, and they've gotta stop, like, pretending that it's not happening. You know, it's like the Middle East. Stop pretending. You know, so many people pretend, don't they? They're like, they don't really know what's going on in the Gaza Strip. I, if you ask most people, you know, they really don't know. They really don't care…

1:02:58Jawad MirYeah

1:02:58Sonja Klaus... What's going on there or in Israel or... They don't really. They're like, "Oh, yeah, I hear it's quite bad." And it's like…

1:03:05Jawad MirYeah, I completely agree with you. I mean, since you love documentaries, I'll send you links of two of the feature documentaries that I directed simultaneously between 2018 and 2022.

1:03:16Sonja KlausOh, yeah. No, I watch…

1:03:17Jawad MirOne of them, one of them is actually pretty hot topic in UK right now. It's about migration.

1:03:24Sonja KlausOh.

1:03:24Jawad MirTold from, told from an, a eye of an Afghan filmmaker in, while he was in Greece. So I'll, I'll send you those links if you're…

1:03:32Sonja KlausOh, yeah. No, I'd love to…

1:03:32Jawad Mir... Interested to…

1:03:33Sonja KlausI really, I do, really, I love watching them. I watch a lot of them.

1:03:36Jawad MirGreat.

1:03:36Sonja KlausAnd I vote on them as well for the Academy. I put my name down 'cause you can choose to not vote for documentaries, and I'm like, "No, I'm, you know, I'm gonna go."

1:03:47Jawad MirPerfect. Awesome. This has been great, Sonia. I really appreciate it. Let's…

1:03:50Sonja KlausOh, sorry. You probably have to go 'cause I know you've got to speak…

1:03:52Jawad MirNo

1:03:52Sonja Klaus... Else.

1:03:53Jawad MirYeah, I've got, another one in seven minutes, otherwise I would love to chat…

1:03:56Sonja KlausOh, yeah. You

1:03:56Jawad Mir... With you for couple of more hours. It's been really…

1:03:58Sonja KlausYou better go. You might need to go and have a little break.

1:04:00Jawad MirNo. It's all good. This has... Honestly, truly, this has been really great. I really had a great time. And I think aside from our passion for Gladiator, there is just, you know, the art of filmmaking and storytelling is just a... It was amazing to exchange discussion, and thank you so much again.

1:04:18Sonja KlausOh, no.

1:04:18Jawad MirI appreciate it.

1:04:18Sonja KlausThank you very much. And I, and als… and I hope I see you soon.