'Unbelievably Vegan', Chef, Charity Morgan

0:00Charity MorganWell, how do you read an ingredient list? It's, from the first ingredient all the way down to the bottom. So whatever is the first ingredient is the most in that product. So it goes from bigger, the biggest of what is being used to the, to the smallest. So as you look at it's so empowering to turn it around and go, oh my gosh, first ingredient. It's not just sugar, it's, it's a lab sugar.

0:27Jawad MirLab sugar.

0:28Charity MorganIt's called high fructose corn syrup. It's what I won't even allow my kids to eat. I... If it's from... I boycott those foods because I've seen what it does to my children. I've seen what it does to me. So it, you talk about all this hyperactivity, well, dang it, take that stuff away from the kids and see what happens, you know?

0:55Jawad MirUnbelievable Vegan with the Chef Charity, on HBO Max. So I had a pleasure of seeing it a few hours ago. Really enjoyed it. And, myself being very kind of, you know, in the health realm, trying to make sure what I eat and what I watch what I eat, it was very relatable, and I enjoyed it quite much.

1:20Charity MorganYay. Well, this is the funny part is you got to see it before me. I haven't seen it yet because I've been so busy that I haven't taken time out to just sit down, but I told my kids I won't see it until they come home from school, and I'll watch it with them.

1:37Jawad MirYeah, no, they'll, they'll like it. They... I... Especially for this, you know, the younger generation, it's pretty fast-paced, so they will not get, you know, distracted or anything like that, and which was cool to watch, which was fun to watch. In any case, before we begin talking about the, documentary, I would love to know what your story is. How did you come to be who you are today?

2:00Charity MorganIt's, it all started with a love for food. I love food. I've always been a traditional chef and putting together things that I love to eat. And then in 2017, my husband decided that he wanted to do an anti-inflammatory diet for a competitive edge in football. I often tell people it's not always about getting to the NFL, it's about staying in the NFL, 'cause it's a short life ex… career. Most guys are out of the league within two to three years. And, I watched my husband try to eat vegan. He had meal plans that he would get delivered to the house, and he struggled. He hated it, but he is so dedicated and committed that he stuck with it because he wanted to see the results. And then, as I'm watching him, like, struggle, I was like, "Wow, that food looks pretty disgusting.

3:00Charity MorganI... Let me help you out." And that's how I started my journey, helping out my husband. And I truly didn't go into eating plant-based for me because I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna be vegan." No, I actually tried it, after he started, and I never went back because I loved it so much.

3:24Jawad MirThat's amazing. I mean, it's, it's a very interesting thing. You know, it's funny, actually, two days ago, I had a, not a burger, but the vegan, if you wanna call it vegan meat. I don't know if that was…

3:37Charity MorganYeah

3:37Jawad Mir... The official word for it. And, it wa… it was, it was different, but it was good at the same time. But, you know, we all have our sort of catalyst of who we become, when, why we become who we become. What was your moment that... I mean, I know you said you love food and everything, but, like, you wanna be chef.

4:03Charity MorganIt came from me being a chef. It came from my love for seeing food. So, I li… I've always loved just being creative. I was a chef before I was a chef. You know what I mean? Like, I was always the person that everybody came to their house, and I cooked for them as early as, like, 16 years old. I cooked for everyone. I remember traveling to the, to,.. Just traveling to different countries, and I remember a trip in Europe where I realized that it was very little processed foods. Everything was made from scratch. Everything. And I was like, "Whoa, this is w… I... This is how I see my food. This is beautiful." Like, I could taste every layer of love, and I wanted to learn that, and that's when I quickly was like, "Yep, I'm going to culinary school."

5:00Jawad MirThat's amazing. It's interesting you mentioned about Europe and processed food. I find that, you know, everywhere I've been, food tastes totally different, and in most cases, way better than the food we have over here. It's a complete…

5:14Charity Morgan100%.

5:15Jawad MirLike, Middle East especially, Asia, Europe, it's just totally different world. And, hence, you know, you see the results of how we are as, and, you know, as different nations and how people are in health-wise. What was the process and the journey of, getting this documentary off the ground? Did you... Were you approached? Did you start something? Just tell me the story of how all that began.

5:43Charity MorganI was approached after seeing a couple, a lot... Not couple, a lot of people saw, The Game Changers, and so that kind of opened up a lot of doors for me of people seeing me on camera. That documentary was based on, you know, elite athletes being vegan, and then here I come as the chef that's cooking for… these athletes... I… I think it was a, you know, the athlete world, it, especially as a elite athlete, it's very slim. But yet people loving to eat or l… cooking or whatever it may be, I, a lot of people took well to me and I got approached of, hey, the world needs to see you. Let's talk about how can we pitch out some ideas. And, shout out to Molly Sims who helped, open those doors and kinda spearhead that.

6:48Charity MorganAnd we didn't quite know what it was gonna look like and how we were gonna introduce me to the world, but we wanted something that's authentic to who I am and what I do, and that's ultimately showing people that it's not about a sacrifice. It's about, what do you like to eat, and let's, let's, let's work off how you eat. Because, you know, y… just as well as you and I, we probably eat separately d… completely different ways of eating and spices and different ways, and I never wanna take that away from people. I want to leave you with the nucleus of who you are and what you love to eat, because we all come with our different cultures, and that's beautiful, and I don't wanna take that away. I just wanna show you the small tweaks and how you can, change small things and make something so delicious. And that resonated more for me. And so going into restaurants and realizing that, hey, n… as I travel, or if I'm in my own city that I live in, I can walk into restaurants all day long and there's never anything for me, and it's kinda s… pathetic.

8:03Charity MorganAnd I'm looking at restaurants going, people are becoming more innovative as in the way that they want to eat. Some people have to eat differently because of their, they may have some illnesses or, food sensitivities, and why aren't we catering to those people? Why are, why are you still stuck in this, you know, this is my way or the highway? That just doesn't work anymore. Keep what you do, but offer up different variations to, for different customers.

8:37Jawad MirRight. I mean, I think that's just the way, unfortunately, the way the world has been for a long time. Like, I even remember when the internet came out, like, you know, we're not gonna have a website and we're not gonna have social media. We're not gonna... You know, what's the point? So I think people eventually catch on. It's just in the beginning, the early days, people have atten… difficulty adapting to change. But I mean, I do see, you know, especially depending on where you go, if you go to California, like it's, you know, totally different world in terms of food. Like, there are so many options, you know, healthy food, vegan food, vegetarian food, as opposed to some other parts of United States. So…

9:14Charity MorganYeah

9:14Jawad Mir... It will take time, but it will, it will happen I'm sure eventually.

9:19Charity MorganYeah. And I'm, and that's why I'm here. I'm here to show, I'm, I'm here to show people that it can be done, and jump along. Help us out. Like, this isn't gonna happen by itself. We have to all be a part of this movement of we want better food. We don't have to eat like crap. We... I mean, we're... I always say it like this. This is the best way to say it. We vote with our dollars, so wherever we're, wherever we're, whatever we're buying for our home, wherever we're going out to eat, that is what dictates what sticks around.

10:08Jawad MirYeah. It's true. And it's incredible. And I mean, look, I used to be part of this group where I didn't eat healthy, right? And now I'm very strict about what I eat. No carbs, you know, and just making sure that it's proper food and not processed food as much as I can, not eating from outside unless I really have to travel and whatnot. But it makes such a difference in your... Forget about your figure. In your head, in your brain, and your thinking completely turns upside down. It ha… Food has such an impact on our body, especially the food in North America. It's so processed that we don't realize, how much that is. I mean, I'll give you this quick little example. It's not about vegan and stuff, but, I don't eat any, you know, deep-fried stuff, you know, anything made in significant oil. A… after a while, I, we were at some, this restaurant, a South Asian restaurant, and we, I... Like, what am I gonna order?

11:08Jawad MirEverything I eat is not here, you know. I prefer to eat healthy. So I had to order a kebab, and little did I know that it was deep-fried. So I had it, and five minutes later I start getting a headache because my body was not used to it. So it's incredible…

11:23Charity MorganWow

11:24Jawad Mir... How we can adapt either way. It's just about a matter of getting there and adapting that change. It makes a big difference once you do. And now I don't wanna go back.

11:33Charity MorganYeah.

11:33Jawad MirBut exactly the same way after watching the film, and especially the whole chicken wing stuff, right? I was watching and I was like, how is this gonna taste? And it's funny how you guy… how it was filmed and how the, everybody reacted. I felt like now I gotta try this. So I'm gonna give that a shot.

11:54Charity MorganI like that you're cleaning up your diet so much to where you're even opting out of, fried foods. I mean, that's big, and often people do have to make those choices, and it's different things that lead us to that. But you're right. Like, I remember completely, taking dairy and meat out of my diet, and I was... It was a day where I was just running. And I was like, "Oh my God, I need caffeine today. I just need caffeine." And I went to, you know, one of those big box, s… coffee shops, and, I asked for an oat milk latte, and lo and behold, I got it, but it wasn't all the way oat milk because of the syrup that they put in it had heavy cream in it and, butter at the time, and I remember feeling so ill.

12:56Charity MorganLike, I felt like I'm gonna vomit. I felt like... I just was sick. It... I don't wanna go too TMI, but I was very sick. And it... I was like, "Why am I so sick? Why am I so sick?" And then I remember going online and looking it up, and I was like, "I ordered an oat milk latte. What did I do wrong?" And then I was like, "Okay. What was in that, the syrup that they put in there?" And then I looked, and lo and behold, it was that.

13:26Jawad MirWow. Wow. That's, that's... Yeah. It's incredible how we... Yeah, I'm glad that you're doing what you're doing because, you know, even the whole meat thing, like, it's funny because I was talking to my trainer a few weeks ago, and he's like, you know, "You sh… try to cut your meat." Right? Like, cut it down. So if you're having, like, four times a week, try to have it two times a week. And I know now because of going through all the changes that I've done in my diet that maybe about four years ago I would tell my colleague that I can never leave meat, but I know I can if I want to, right? Will I do that completely? I don't know, but p… point is, everything is damn possible if you put your…

14:10Charity MorganYeah

14:10Jawad Mir... You know, mind to it. It's just, it's just in your head. Everything is in your head.

14:14Charity MorganI... And it's... I like your approach of, like, just... It's, the, it's my philosophy as well. Crawl before you walk. And I'm not, like, beating over anyone's head, "You gotta go vegan today. You must do it or more animals are gonna die." That doesn't…

14:31Jawad MirYeah.

14:32Charity MorganThat doesn't, that doesn't turn the page. It actually pisses people off. You're talking to independent, free-thinking human beings. It pisses... I know 'cause it happened to me. It pisses people off. It makes people more defiant rather than, oh, I'm gonna con… I'm gonna conform to your way. It makes them throw up middle fingers to you, and I learned that. And I... A… and as you can see in the episode, it... You have to have patience. You have to meet people where they are. You have to look at their background. You h… there's so many have to before people can say, "Oh, okay, I'm going vegan." So for me, it's how can I assist you? What information do you feel like you aren't getting? What is your holdup? And sometimes it's something as simple as, "I just love cheese." And I'm like, "Let me show you something.

15:34Charity MorganLet me show you a good cheese brand," or, "Let me show you how to make some cheese." You know? Like, it can be as, that simple. So I'm here to just continue to plant seeds and let people know that you can do it, and you don't... It's not a all or none kind of approach. Approach it with, in the way of what's best for you, what's best for your family, and we can grow from there rather than the big old stop sign of halt, do not pass go of what most people do when you attack them.

16:08Jawad MirYeah. That's 100% true, not just in this conversation. Any conversation when people are told what to do all the time, they are not gonna do it. You know, it's just like a child when you tell a child, "Don't do it," they will do it. You know, talking about... One of the things I loved about the doc was that y… you know, you... The plot line was very simple, right? Like, there was nothing complex about it. It was just a very simple concept. But it had that, it dealt with that thing about, you know, trying, not trying to change people's mind overnight but just giving them a fl… flavor, like your conversation with your husband and then the chef that you were, you know, working with, in, during the entire doc. It was, it was really nice to see that because you're trying to give audience... You know, you're reaching out to the audience where, who don't m… who may not even know about what vegan 100% is and how to get there. So it... The balanced approach, like you said, which was really cool and really nicely done. I really liked that.

17:09Charity MorganThank you so much.

17:13Jawad MirHow, h… h… how are your kids in this plan, if they are at all?

17:19Charity MorganThey are.

17:21Jawad MirThey are

17:21Charity Morgan... My kids are vegan. My son has been vegan for several years, and he just recently... When was this? So he just started middle school, and he recently started eating somewhat vegetarian, and I let that be his choice. He still won't eat meat, but he will eat cheese, and I have to let my son make his deci… decisions for himself as a 12-year-old. I know why he did it. He felt like an outcast. You know, you're going into middle school, and you're like, "I'm the only one." And I often talk to my kids about leadership. My daughter, she's like, "Heck no." Like, "I don't want to touch anything that's not vegan." She's the opposite, but my son kinda is trying to find his way, and I had to let him know, "Look… I'm proud of you, and I want you to make your own decisions because if you don't know why you do what you do, you're never gonna, you know, uphold and stay true to anything you do.

18:28Charity MorganSo know why you do what you do. Don't do it because mom does it. Don't do it because dad does it. Do it because this is who you are and you wanna do it. Because when I was 12, guess what? I wasn't vegan. So find your way, and if I force him and say, "No, you're not gonna do this and do that," then guess what? I'm gonna push him away and he's gonna become defiant. So when he's at school, he will eat the cheese pizza on the menu or whatever, and, that's how he's been. And when he's home and he's with us, he's vegan, but he kinda bends it when he's at school for the cheese pizza.

19:12Jawad MirThat's pretty cool. That's good that you've got that system going. And…

19:15Charity MorganYeah

19:15Jawad Mir... I think, you know, that it's always about the natural progression of human beings trying to getting to a place where others want them to go to.

19:24Charity MorganOh, yeah.

19:24Jawad MirAnd that's always the best way because when you tell people, like I said earlier, and like you said, too, it's like they're not gonna bother. They're not gonna bother at all.

19:31Charity MorganYeah.

19:32Jawad MirWhat's your favorite vegan dish?

19:36Charity MorganMy fa…

19:36Jawad MirOr top three.

19:37Charity MorganOh, okay. So I'm gonna pick three of my top three because it's the most requested from my cookbook, and a lot of that stuff is what you'll see in the, in the special. Everyone loves a good truffle mac and cheese, so that's from my cookbook as well. Another is the Caesar salad. These are the most requested, so I'm just giving you the most requested.

20:06Jawad MirRight.

20:06Charity MorganAnd what I often crave, and I'm sorry, because it's fried, I'm sure you could try…

20:12Jawad MirIt's okay

20:13Charity Morgan... A baked version…

20:14Jawad MirIt's okay

20:15Charity Morgan... Or a air-fried version, but, Cajun oyster fried mushrooms.

20:24Jawad MirOh, the one that's in the, in the doc.

20:26Charity MorganYes. It is, it is unbelievable. It's like my husband, who hates mushrooms, by the way, I made him those and I didn't tell him what it was, and he ate. And I made him, like, those and I made a side of waffles, so it was this whole chicken and waffles thing I was making for him, and he ate like a whole sheet pan of them and was like, "What am I eating?" I wouldn't tell him what he was eating 'cause I knew he'd be... Once I told him it was a mushroom, he'd just automatically stop eating it just out of pure, I must be defiant. So now, fast-forward to 2024, he always tells people, "I won't say what I won't eat anymore until I try it, and I... Because she's proved me wrong so many times." So I love that dish.

21:19Jawad MirIt looked great. It definitely looked wonderful. I mean, people were praising it in the…

21:24Charity MorganYeah

21:24Jawad Mir... In the, in the doc and, you know, they couldn't tell the difference unti… until... I think it was yourself or the other chef, I forget his name.

21:32Charity MorganJD

21:32Jawad Mir... He, JD, he mentioned it. How much time did you spend i… in the actual... You know, not the interview part, but the actual production of this whole ordeal about the plot, the way it unfolded. What was that like?

21:51Charity MorganNot much time. It was honestly taking JD and taking what he had and just working with what we had. It wasn't manufactured. It wasn't like let's, oh, let's sit back and create these scenarios and…

22:10Jawad MirYeah

22:10Charity Morgan... We dealt with what we were dealing with on hand every sec… step of the way, and that's what a good production company would do. So High Noon, they were really good with, just the producers that were on the show, taking what we have and really using it and amplifying that.

22:37Jawad MirYeah. And you could tell. When you watch it, you could tell it's nothing... You know, I... Pe… audience have an eye, but I could tell, like, it was not staged in any way. Like, everything had its organic and natural flow, which was really co… This is why, that's why I enjoyed it, because otherwise I probably would've given up after five minutes. What is your message to the... You know, again, you kinda touched upon this, but whether you're vegan or vegetarian or, you know, even just trying to be healthy despite being a meat eater, what's your message in terms of health and food and how they're connected to people out there?

23:20Charity MorganMy message is to, always just be more conscious. Not always. Let me take that out. I hate absolutes. My message is to be more conscious and try to look at what's on your plate. Most people don't realize it. They're constantly in a state of just eating things because someone else eats it, or I eat it because I have for the last 10, 15, 20 years. And just stopping and just being like, "What am I eating? What is this? Where did this come from?" i… is this, is this a GMO product? Is, was this made in a lab? And, what are they spraying on my stuff? There's so much things that you don't know until you know it. You, like they say, you don't know until you know. And I've... Was just, like, appalled at a lot of the… The things that I learn, and I'm constantly learning about what's in our envi… environment and what's on our plate.

24:25Charity MorganAnd so just connecting more with your food. And not, I'm not saying make this a full-time job. Just stop and think about, "What am I eating? What is this?" And I often start it with children, 'cause most children had a... L… children can connect faster than adults. It's true. I've, I've seen it. I've w… volunteered at, schools, and I would do a plant-based meal once a week and send it to the school. And I asked the kids that had... You know, it was a Montessori school, and they had chickens on the, on the actual, property, and I would ask them, "What is... When you, when you're, when you're eating chicken, what is chicken?" And they're like, "Oh, it's this and it's that." And they had all these different things of what they explained it to be. But I'm like, "Did you ever make a connection?" Like, it's the song. Like, o… on Old MacDonald's farm.

25:25Charity MorganIs it the same chicken that you're eating? And they're like, "Oh, it's the same. We're eating Old MacDonald's animals." And it was just so cute. And making a connection to where is food grown and, hey, when your mom buys a tomato at the store, w… what does, where does a tomato come from? And they're like, "It comes from the store." And I'm like, "No. It comes from a garden." And it's just taking those moments and finding out where is our food coming from and why is it on my plate? What... How did a, how did a tomato from Mexico end up on my plate right here in Nashville, Tennessee? There's no farms around here. What's going on? Making that small connection will literally open up all these doors of what's on your plate.

26:16Jawad MirYeah. That's really well said, and it's so true. You reminded me of something about, when you said tomato. So I used to be, for the longest time, a Heinz ketchup lover, right? And up until a few years ago, my wife would get, like, the Costco can, the big one, and I'd probably finish it in three weeks. And then when I found out, I mean, I always knew, because when you taste it's sweet, right? Then when I found out the sugar element in it…

26:50Jawad MirGone. It's been two years, I haven't touched ketchup, period. And it's, it's am… it's amazing, again, how that was contributing so much to what my system was dealing with. And it completely turned upside down. And now I, again, it's just about that thing that you have... You can do it. I know I can become vegan if I want to, right?

27:13Jawad MirIt's just, it's just about the approach and the mentality.

27:16Charity MorganAnd it's not just the sugar. It's the, it's the, when you flip that package around, it's…

27:21Jawad MirYeah.

27:22Charity MorganSo for listeners and people that don't understand is, well, how do you read an ingredient list? It's, from the first ingredient all the way down to the bottom. So whatever is the first ingredient is the most in that product. So it goes from bigger, the biggest of what is being used to the, to the smallest. So as you look at it's so empowering to turn it around and go, oh my gosh, first ingredient. It's not just sugar. It's, it's a lab sugar. It's…

27:53Jawad MirLab sugar

27:54Charity Morgan... Called high-fructose corn syrup. It's what I won't even allow my kids to eat. I, if it's ro… I boycott those foods because I've seen what it does to my children. I've seen what it does to me. So it, you talk about all this hyperactivity, well, dang it, take that stuff away from the kids and see what happens. You know? And it's so empowering to see that, and luckily you guys came to that, you know, epiphany of all the sugar. I mean, ketchup doesn't need to have that. And you will see it. Talk about other countries. You will see it in other countries that don't allow the high…

28:33Jawad MirYeah

28:33Charity Morgan... Fructose corn syrup. You can buy a Heinz ketchup in, the UK or in Europe, and you buy it here. Total different ingredients. Completely different. So why are Americans settling for this? Is because we have, again, our buying power has said we're gonna continue to buy the crap, and you guys are gonna continue to make it for us.

28:59Jawad Mir100%. 100%. But at the end of the day, again, I mean, it sh… the change begins with us too, right? As human beings. Of having that want and desire to make that change because that's where it begins. And once you have that, then, you know, things shifting. And again, health is the big… the most important thing in your life. What you eat is the most important thing that you can do because if you have that, everything else will fall into place automatically.

29:25Charity MorganAbsolutely.

29:26Jawad MirWonderful.

29:27Charity MorganBe proactive, not reactive.

29:30Jawad Mir100%. Thank you so much, Charity. I appreciate your time. Unless you wanna add anything else, I'll give it a little closure. Do you have something else to add on?

29:40Charity MorganNo, just thank you so much for having me.

29:43Jawad MirNo, it's a pleasure. And, unbelievable, Unbelievably Vegan premiers today, on HBO Max. Thank you so much again, Charity.

29:52Charity MorganThank you. Have a great day.

29:53Jawad MirTake care. You too.

29:54Charity MorganBye-bye.