'Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone', Cinematographer, John Seale

0:00John SealeEven then the weight of who to choose, was enormous and, you know, I gave up. I had selected another young man, that I thought was a pretty good Harry Potter. But Chris was adamant about Daniel Radcliffe, and bless him, he was right, in a way that he picked the actor that could... A young ac… very young actor that could carry six, seven, eight films or whatever it was, and be able to carry it as he aged, and during the shooting of those films. So it was an enormous weight, and my respect for him, and not only as a director of the film, but as the director who had to cast that film, he... My admiration is ginormous for him to do, to having done that and, succeeding.

1:15Jawad MirHey everyone, this is Jawad, your host at Kingdom of Dreams podcast. In today's conversation, I have none other than cinematographer John Seale, who spoke about Chris Columbus' Harry Potter and Sorcerer's Stone, or also known as Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. We dug deep into the film, the behind-the-scenes stuff, and how Chris Columbus really worked hard to find the right actor or the right actors for each of the characters portrayed in J.K. Rowling's book, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone.

1:46John SealeI'd heard about the book, very vaguely, to be honest, that, it was, it was potentially being, mooted as a very popular book and would sell well. And that's about all. Then I got... Somehow I ended up in London for some reason, and I was being approached by Richard Donner, in fact, to possibly shoot a film in England. And I happened to be there, so I rang Richard and I said, "Richard, I'm in England. Would you like me to catch up with anything if, you know, anything to see, and, get ahead on this?" And he said, "Oh, yeah, sure." So I hooked up with the, locations manager, and away we went through the, looking at piles of rocks and old cathedrals and castles and things like that. And then I vaguely heard as well that my good friend, and I'll say that, Duncan Henderson, was in London, and I thought, "Oh, I wonder what he's doing there."

2:56John SealeSo I thought I'll ring him, and I found out where he was. I got hi… I think I had his number, mobile number, and I rang that and it was Du… He answered, and he said, "Well, where are you?" And I said, "Well, I'm in London and I'm getting on a plane in the next couple of hours back to Australia." And he said, "Ah." He said, "Do me a favor. Buy the book, Harry Potter and the Philos… and the Sorcerer's Stone," I think it was called that first.

3:25Jawad MirYeah. Yeah

3:26John Seale... Read it on the plane and tell me what you think because I think you might have the film if you want it," which was lovely. See, I... Because with Chris Columbus, he had approached me a couple of times, years before on other projects, and unfortunately, I wasn't available for them and had to pass on them because of that. But Duncan quick… quickly outlined and said that Chris was directing Harry Potter, and if I read the book and l… when I landed in Australia, let him know straight away because potentially, I might be able, I might have it. So I read the book on the plane on the way home and landed and rang him straight away and said, "Love to do it." It was visually would be an exciting, challenging movie to make. It was also a fascinating, first book, to read.

4:27John SealeI think a lot of people found that. And, off I went. I had nothing at that Richard Donner's film crashed and burned, so I had nothing and, to work on. And so I just rang Duncan straight back and said, "I'd love to be involved if it's possible." And, you know, couple of months later I was in England.

4:55Jawad MirAmazing. And had you done anything in terms of intensity of special effects and visual effects that film has, something of that nature up until that point? Or was it something at the first time in that kind of like capacity?

5:16John SealeNot really, not to that extent, but had dabbled in, smaller, e… e… examples of what was becoming a digital revolution as far as post-work concerned, was concerned, blue screen, green screen, work was concerned. I'd done a lot of that, green screen work in America. So that was a fairly standard procedure. But other aspects of it, weren't, and they were in developing stages, which was, is always very exciting to find something that can answer a problem that in the past might have created quite a stumbling block as far as the visuals were concerned, and this would, happily fix it in post or during the shoot was always an exciting, development.

6:17John SealeIt caused a little consternation at times because, some of, some of the, effects that were being created were helped by technology that impeded into a normal lighting situation. So that caused, a little bit of a disturbance there, but we got through that. We got through that. And otherwise, no, it was, basically a very learning process. Every film I felt around that era, and still to this day, is a learning era of new technology that's coming in on the, on, mainly on the post, I suppose. But developments of cameras and lights and s… sound equipment and all of that is quite exciting for the younger person coming into the game.

7:21John SealeSo we, I think, battled through our problems using what we felt through, Rob Legato was the cutting edge of the technology available at that stage.

7:40Jawad MirRight. And while you were, like, you know, in the prep work, the de… pre-production and production, obviously even at that time, you know, but from what I remember, the book was already popular. And I remember when the film went into production, one of the directors, I think before Christopher Columbus, that was possibly gonna do it was Steven Spielberg, and he said this on the record. But for whatever reason, that didn't happen. But the book popularity kept gaining as more films kept coming out. But during pre-production or production, did you anticipate or did you know that it was going to be a big deal for fans when it comes out and it needs to be done, you know, obviously from the entire team in a way that's a service to the fans, but at the same time keeping making sure that the film is done as a film should be done?

8:38John SealeI think so, yes. Because by the time, I'd read the book, which was fairly late in the pub… in the publishing of the book, it was already starting. We could tell it was already starting in England particularly, it was on a roll. So the potential was there. And by the time I think pre-production started, the potential of a success was definitely there, I felt, for the film, because the book by then was, had already become basically a bestseller. So we knew there was a... Well, I did. I felt there was a potential. I know Chris did too because, you know, his casting, was incredible. It... Thousands of kids were video tested and then later film tested as we got closer to the beginning of shoot.

9:42John SealeAnd honestly, I've gotta say that the weight on his shoulders bringing together a film that from that, the sale and the popularity of the book and the anticipation of a film, that weight on his shoulders must have been enormous. I don't know how he slept at night to cast that movie and to direct it. And I know that there were certain sort of aspects of the film that J.K. Rowling wanted included from the book. Very much, English, actors and quite a few demands that I don't think were, a stumbling block for Chris at all, but I think it added weight to his shoulders as far as, getting the cast together for that film.

10:42John SealeWe did... You know, he honed it down to a, quite a number of young people to go on film, and I was involved in that. Came into pre-production fairly early, to do that and, set it up. But, even then the weight of who to choose, was enormous and, you know, I gave up. I had selected another young man, that I thought was a pretty good Harry Potter. But Chris was adamant about Daniel Radcliffe, and bless him, he was right, in a way that he picked the actor that could, the young, very young actor that could carry six, seven, eight films or whatever it was and be able to carry it as he aged, and during the shooting of those films.

11:46John SealeSo, you know, my admiration for him is just enormous because of that weight on his shoulders to cast the, characters of, from the book onto the film and to be able to cast characters that could carry, the, characters all the way through seven films as they grew up, I mean, I remember young Daniel started to shave on the first one, so that was an indication of puberty screaming in on these kids, you know? And, wonderful situations with, the actors, young actors. I swear to you that occasionally we'd be rolling away on a, on a shot with a close-up of Daniel, and he'd suddenly just stop and start smiling, and you could almost tell that what crossed his mind was, "I'm Harry Potter". And it would destroy his performance.

12:48John SealeAnd, but Chris was so lovely carrying that. He'd say, "Oh, okay. Cut. Let's, let's do it again. Let's have another go at this," and very cheerful about the whole thing and he nurtured and nursed those kids through the first one. And the enormity of it had already hit, I think, all of the young actors that Harry Potter was going to be highly successful. Emma Watson was incredible. Little lady, she knew everybody else's dialogue and we had to stop her quite a lot from mouthing. She would say her line, and then whoever she was talking to would be saying their line, and she would be mouthing the words 'cause she knew them as well. And if they faltered, she could prompt them. So she not only knew her own lines back to front, but she knew everybody else's. She was hilarious.

13:49John SealeAnd that was in the first film. So casting that, as far as Chris is concerned, a massive job and very well done, I must say.

14:03Jawad MirChris Columbus, I mean, you know, for those who don't know, he wrote The Goonies, he wrote Gremlins, he directed Home Alone one and two. You know, all these kids-based movies. Mrs. Doubtfire, Stepmom, Nine Months, and he has this ability... I mean, I was watching Harry Potter the today after a long time, and any time Daniel smiled, like, and his character smiled, it kind of reminded me of Macaulay Culkin from Home Alone. Like, that same kind of, you know, very radiant smile that just pulls you in. And he has this way with, obviously with writing and directing, but I think with actors too, especially kids, and he just has this ability to figure out, figure them out, and you can see that in the film. You could clearly see that in the film how easy and relaxed all these kids were to be able to not only play such a big, you know, charac… set of characters, but to be in the movie possibly for the first time ever.

15:07Jawad MirIf not, maybe, you know, they probably had done some TV work, I think. But yeah, no, hats off to him. I mean, I, he's up, he's up... He's making his next film now with, Don Burgess, something called Thursday. I think Spielberg is producing it. It has a big cast. But, he's one of my favorites. But, you know, you mentioned J.K. Rowling. Was she on the set most of the time…

15:32John SealeWell, no

15:32Jawad Mir... At all?

15:33John SealeNo, not at all. She did pop in once that I remember. I think, I think ch… and she came through and I think David Heyman was quickly introducing her to various heads of department. But she was fairly distant in a way. I think she didn't really know what a film set was like or going to be like, and, you know, and didn't maybe understand a lot of what she w… was being thrown at her in a very quick visit. And I think she was a bit, overwhelmed with that. So it wasn't, I felt, in my meeting with her, a relaxed meeting. It was, "Oh, hello," and, "Pleased to meet you. Yes. M… moving on," and moved on to the next person, so because I n… I don't think she really understood, what film crews and who was involved and why.

16:43John SealeBut that, I think, came later. So no, she wasn't on the set…

16:47Jawad MirYeah

16:47John Seale... A lot, but I know that, she was in the background a lot. And rightly so, as the writer of the book, but, not onset per se, no.

16:58Jawad MirI think you're right. She became more involved after couple of set of films and, you know, because she, I think she became a producer too, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know on which film, but, I had read that. But, you know, working with Chris Columbus, you talked about casting and you talked about the bird and everything, but just pure cinematographer-director relationship, any kind of i… the experience of working with him along with any kind of story that you may remember. Doesn't have to be... Just to get an idea of how his sort of approach to storytelling is.

17:39John SealeThere was a lot of talk, you know, in pre-production with, Steve Kloves, and in production meetings about the portrayal of the film in regards to the book, and we know that, J.K. Rowling wanted it to be as close to the book as possible. So there was a lot of talk about that. I'll be honest that, you know, that kind of talk can go over the top of my head a bit as a cameraman. But I listen, very carefully with a director… that I haven't worked with before. I do a lot of listening. I feel I need to find out where their mindset is as far as the book is concerned and the visual portrayal of that book, how they feel, how dramatic the camera will be or the lighting or the, or the, eh, the, combination of that with editing, how many cameras we put in.

18:44John SealeWe... I was well into a multiple camera mode at that stage, and we agreed that with Harry Potter we would put in as many cameras as we could because of the fact that the kids were pretty inexperienced. And it was the sort of thing where I feel, and I agreed with Chris, that to put the cameras in on all the kids that were primary to that scene, would essentially capture the moments of performance that were needed by Richard Francis-Bruce, the editor. And I agreed to that totally because I loved, I love doing multiple cameras. I love the challenge of cross-shooting with them and making the lighting fully acceptable under those conditions. I'd been working on it for years, and it wasn't, a scary thing at all.

19:46John SealeBut even back then, in the early '80s, it was a scary thing to a lot of cameramen to have to or be asked or forced to shoot multiple cameras. Certainly not cross-shooting. So there was a sort of a li… a sense of, technical limbo there as to whether or not multiple camera shooting for cinema was acceptable or would it be, you know, totally acceptable on the grounds that the images were still of a standard of quality that cinema could, convey, and not make the film look like television. And I think that was the big challenge back then. So it came as a little bit of a shock, I've got to be honest, with the, English crew, that we did go with four, six cameras, had the operators there to do it.

20:48John SealeAnd I found that there was... Because I'd had, quite a few films, under my belt with multiple camera coverage I wasn't... I was able to blaze into it and say, "Put a camera there, put a camera there, camera there," and hit the primary people. And with Chris we'd work out, those angles and coverage as well to make sure that he was getting the coverage from actors within that scene that would create and help that scene to be viable. Then I was able to then go to the crew and say, "Right. Camera there." And it did, in the beginnings, with the English camera crew that I felt, unfortunately weren't au fait with multiple camera. And so it took a little bit of urging to get those cameras in, and quickly.

21:49John SealeI like to work very quickly, as quickly as I can, keeping actors hot. Don't let them fall out of character. All of that I think with multiple camera shooting back then in the early '80s for me was essential to make, help make films. And so I found there was a little bit of, awkwardness in asking for multiple camera and it, and zoom lenses, and that the operators weren't using geared heads. They were using hydraulic heads with a zoom control that would enable them to change the size of the shot during shooting. And I tried to say to these camera operators, you know, y… you... On this film with these kids and the, well, the value of the production we need to get and performance from these kids, the multiple cameras are going in. The zooms are there for you to change size to suit the perform… performance.

22:54John SealeAnd as the camera operators you're almost going to be like you're shooting a football game where you don't know what's going to happen and you need the zoom to change your frame size to suit the situation. Even if it is, even if it wrecks a shot and we do a take two you can quickly change it, but you change them. Don't come to me and say, "Sh… I think I should be a bit wider." Just change the size. You're the camera operator. You're making the movie. You're shooting the movie. You understand what's happening. You know that it's a single. And if they're rocking around a bit much and you need to be a bit wider, then just go wider. So that took a little bit of, a little bit of training I might, I might put it down as to get their mindset into the fact that as camera ope… camera operators, you know, we were really shooting, very, inexperienced young kids who were pretty, naive to the technology that normally would be demanded.

24:02John SealeHitting marks so the focus pullers could be, you know, nice and sharp. And we had a few focus problems, again because of, you know, the kids wouldn't hit the marks and things like that. So I had to... I did a lot of, Buying a beer. Oh, buying beers for them and telling them, you know, like, "Listen, these kids are out of control. You know, be ready for anything. Don't think they're gonna hit marks because they're not. Your mindset has to be these are, this is a football game, and you don't know where they're gonna go. And please be technical as far as that's concerned, and grab every second that we can that's sharp. Because Richard, Francis-Booth and obviously Chris in post would need to have the availability of every shot, as crisp as possible and as good as possible. So it's up to you to get it." So there was a little bit of a learning lesson there for a lot of our camera crew.

25:06John SealeBut once we settled into the... Once the, once the mindset settled in, away we went. And, I hope in hindsight that Chris got the film that he wanted as far as, editing and the post was concerned.

25:25Jawad MirIt's interesting you talked about camera operators and going a bit wider and treating it like a football game. Sometimes, I haven't done in a while now, but in the past, you know, let's say from 20… 2005 until 2019, '20, I was doing sometimes camera, like a second camera operator any of the projects that I had worked on, whether it was directing a film, whether it was, a live event. And one of the things that I have learned, and I... When you were talking about that it kind of hit me, is that you get this ability if you do it a lot of times, especially live stuff like, you know, the real, in real time. You know exactly where certain things are gonna go, and your hand will naturally move the camera in that direction and back and up and... It's just instincts. And they kick in obviously because of your, you know, time being spent on it. And I, and I find for me at least that having done all that, it, I kind of went the other way where it made my job whenever I did camera operating, like a second camera on anything that I was directing, you know, just to save some budget here and there.

26:39Jawad MirIt's a beautiful thing. It's just your mind picks it up very quickly. You know where this person's gonna go, and I think it's a very magical thing to do.

26:47John SealeIt's very true, very true. And that's why I always loved over the years of camera operating as well as lighting that, you do. You learn to read an actor's eyes as to when they're gonna move, what they're gonna do, and where you can make it a little more comfortable for the camera to be recording them and ant… in anticipation of what their movements might be. So there's not a feeling that the camera doesn't know what's gonna happen. But someti… some people like the great Larry Kasdan, he loved buzzing focus on multiple cameras where actors were given a lot of freedom. And he hit me with a line that, during shooting with Larry that stayed with me for the rest of my life. And, I know that, Larry can't remember he said it, which is probably a great philosophy for his mind. But when I went to him and said, "Look, I'm a little worried, Larry, about dailies because a lot of it's buzzing and..."

27:53John SealeHe said, "Well, what, why does it worry you?" And I said, "Well, I just don't want the audience to be sitting there and be more worried about the fact that the focus isn't pin sharp than the mo… watching the movie." And he thought for a while and he said to me, he said, he said, "John," he said, "I like the idea that the camera's there by invitation, not design." And when you analyze that's a great statement because that's what a lot of cameras, camera coverage needs to be. The feeling it's there by invitation so that it's more what the audience want to see rather than designed to be in the exact photographically right position to record, an actor or a person or a pictorial. It's there by invitation because that's where an audience's mindset might really want it to be, and I love that.

28:56John SealeI love that he said that. And I kept that in mind, all my life right up until, I told George, Miller about it on Fury Road and he loved it too. He said, "That's the most interesting concept of how you do camera coverage." So a lot of the, way I felt that Harry Potter was covered was a l… maybe a little bit of both, that the actors were so inexperienced, the younger ones obviously, that we had to cover them. Whereas the older actors who were theater trained or cinema trained, would hit marks, and we could then make the camera there by invitation. But with the kids maybe it had to be a little more of, since… more sincere coverage to be able to get it and get it as sharp as possible for the, focus pullers because they, the kids weren't gonna hit marks, and they were a little flamboyant in their movements and, you know, tended to do a rehearsal at one speed and then they'd do a take at three times the speed…

30:12Jawad MirYeah

30:12John Seale... When they picked up energy. Things like that. So I had to try and drill the guys, camera operators and the focus pullers into realizing that… You really are covering a football game in a way, because they're so, indecisive as to what they're going to do almost on each take. And I wouldn't mind betting over the years as they did numbers of films they settled down. But, in that ear… first one, it was a little bit of a zoo when it came to that, but I hope that we covered it, quite, amicably.

30:51Jawad MirIt's, it's interesting that you talked about coverage, right, and multiple cameras on the kids. 'Cause again, when I was watching it this morning and you see these kids, you know, especially the three main kids, who were leading the film, it w… I couldn't put my finger on it, but obviously I didn't know…

31:10Jawad Mir... It was, you know, multiple camera coverage. But there was just something about the way they reacted to certain moments where you figured, like, how did she or he reacted, you know, with a little eyebrow frown or whatnot by just, you know, looking at something random. And then now that you mention it in most of the cases I'm pretty sure, where they were actually reacting to a certain moment that was occurring in real time and that was being captured by other cameras. And I think that's really brilliant on your part to be able to do that. And I truly feel now that you mention it, that really makes the film, takes the film to another level in terms of performances. Because otherwise you won't be able to get the right reaction shots for right moments.

31:55John SealeExactly. And in continuity.

31:58Jawad MirRight

31:58John Seale... Quite a lot of e… yeah, quite a lot of editors have said at the end of a movie they love the multiple camera because one of them said to me another line that I remembered for the rest of my life, which is not that long, is, that they could cut for performance, not have to cut to continuity.

32:19Jawad MirYeah

32:19John Seale... And so I thought, "Oh, must help make a better film." So I'm hoping that combination did work for that. It's very hard to watch the movie and be able to say, well, the beginning of that close-up was take one, and then the middle was take three, and then the ending was take five. Y… it's pretty hard to tell that.

32:45John SealeBut, I do think that what you're saying, is correct in that in the early days I felt that's what would help make a better film, is to be able to have perfect continuity for cutting so that the editor can get in there and cut reactions and back to the other person, and the continuity's constant. Because I think the audience can sense, an uneasiness in continuity changes between, cuts that might occur in a dialogue scene. And it's something they probably can never put their finger on what it was, but it's something in the back of their brain says, "Something happened during that and I can't..." That's, to me, is taking them out of the film. So…

33:39Jawad MirYeah

33:39John Seale... K… keeping an audience in the film by a camera that's there by invitation or multiple cameras that give you perfect continuity cutting in the editing, surely must help settle an audience into, watching and understanding, the emotion and drama that the director wants to put out on any film.

34:06Jawad MirRight. So true, so true. What… Do you remember a specific scene, whether it was fun to do, whether it was challenging to do, that kind of stands out, during the production of Har… the first Harry Potter film?

34:23John SealeLook, I generally don't, have one. I sort of feel that every scene, you know, you d… try and make the best of. But on the Harry Potter I did look forward to the big chess game. I just thought that was, would be a fantastic, scene to cover, and to light. You know, it had the fires in there. We made it slightly cooler and colder for a battle scene. Loved the way the kids... By then the kids had settled down as well into their characters, and they were bouncing off each other, much more comfortably, I think. So I looked forward to that scene, and I still think, you know, with the visual effects that went in, with the special effects of the, big chess pieces crumbling, the fire light being able to flicker a little bit of fire light on their faces to increase the drama of the battle.

35:31John SealeAll of that made that scene, quite anticipatory, and, I did look forward to it and thoroughly enjoyed, shooting it as well.

35:41Jawad MirI'm so glad you talked about that because with a film like Harry Potter a bit, or a story like Harry Potter, you know, it's about magic, right? Then it's like throughout the film you have magic. How do you top all that with the final, you know, scene, which is, like, supposed to be, you know, supposed to go out with a big bang. And obviously it was in the book, but nevertheless, the way it was executed, was so masterfully done because it wasn't over the top, but it didn't undersell the film in any way either.

36:16John SealeYeah.

36:16Jawad MirSo it was, it was... I'm glad you mentioned that because it's one of my favorite scenes, you know, from the film. And there are a lot of iconic moments in Harry Potter, the very first one, the one that you shot, kind of like, you know, how ET flying through the moon, but in front of the moon you have in Harry Potter, for me at least…... Is, you know, when they're on the boats rowing towards the castle, the very first one. Like, there's all these iconic scenes that you have done, and they're so... The lighting is so different throughout the film in different scenes. You know, especially f… the warm lighting that you had inside the castle, when they were dining in the dining hall. I… that's, that's my favorite. Among everything else that you've done, those scenes were my favorite in terms of lighting.

37:00John SealeOh, lovely. Lovely. Well, the whole... A lot of the pre-production with Chris, was the understanding that book one really was an explanatory film. Where did Harry Potter s…

37:14Jawad MirYeah

37:14John Seale... Come from? The suburban house, living under the stairs. How he got involved with, Hogwarts, how he gets there, the train trip. All of that was ex… explanatory stuff. And talking with Chris, you know, there was nothing dark about it. We kept it light and airy, realistic to the contemporary time in the, in the little suburban street, suburban house. Developing through to Hogwarts. And that boat trip, the train trip probably started the thin end of the wedge of more dramatic lighting when the train pulls up at, the railway station and the kids get out, get into the boats, and travel across that lake at night. And you tilt up, and there is Hogwarts. And a very beautifully done, CGI, painting as well.

38:15John SealeAnd I think that is accurate to what, Chris felt that the first film should be. The explanations and then the exploration into Hogwarts and the beginnings of the magic. And slowly, hopefully, our little, our little skirmishes into the magic side of it started to become a little bit more,... Maybe a little darker, a little... You know, starting to sense that, later on this could get quite nasty in a way. And I, so I think, hopefully the balance of that was brought to bear on that first film.

39:05Jawad MirYeah. No, it's... I... The reason I me… I said something in the beginning of, like, our conversation, was I didn't watch anything after the second film, not because they're not good. For me personally the novelty wears off after, you know, one or two films. And I'm sure it's a great set of series. I mean, my kids have read all the books, have seen all the movies. Maybe one day I will, but i… there's just something about the first film and even the second film, and I don't know if it has anything to do with the fact that Christopher Columbus was involved in it, to me that... Because I, he's one of my favorites. But i… in the first one is always the first one, no matter what. The fir… there's only one first Jur…

39:48John SealeNo

39:48Jawad Mir... There's only f… the first Jurassic Park, you know, is special and, Harry Potter and there are so many other films like that. But thank you so much for, you know, making such a beautiful film and being part of it because it really brought back some beautiful memories for me just watching so much heart that went into that film from every one of you guys.

40:13John SealeOh, thanks a lot. It was a pleasure.

40:16Jawad MirWonderful. Thank you so much, John. Anything else you wanna share that I have, may have overlooked or forgotten? Any…

40:23John SealeNo, only sadly that, Chris did ask, me to roll over and do the second one.

40:31Jawad MirRight.

40:31John SealeAnd I just... I ended up in a, typical of the film industry, a scheduling problem. Anthony Minghella's Cold Mountain, we'd been trying to get that going for three years, and I rang him and he said, "Yes, we're definitely going this year." So I had to, I sadly had to pass on the second Harry Potter. And then of course what happens? Cold Mountain didn't go either, so I lost that as well…... That year. But I ended up in Canada with Larry Kasdan and, I thoroughly enjoyed helping him make that film and getting one of the greatest lines in my mind out of the film industry, that can help making films. So that's, that's life I suppose in the fast lane, but, a very sad occasion that I did miss the second one. And it would've been lovely to have done the second one to help move it into that m… more darker and, more sinister magic that was going to start developing in the later films, but there you go.

41:45Jawad MirDid, were you happy to see what you saw in the second film? Have you seen the second film?

41:50John SealeI haven't seen all of it right through. Like you, I tend to fall into a…... Too hard basket with the, with the same old thing. But, I've seen, quite a bit of it and I had a nice talk with, Roger Pratt before, I left London to head back to Australia, and, we talked about it. And he did a brilliant job and I'm, I hope that, Chris was happy with that, which I think he was and should have been 'cause Roger did a great job. So, but a bit disappointing I couldn't help Chris move it into that, into that, more sinister e… era of the Harry Potter fil… Potter films. Yeah.

42:37Jawad MirRight. Yeah, no, that's just like you said, it's just the nature of business. You al… you win some… ... You lose some, and then you move on.

42:44John SealeExactly. Exactly.

42:47Jawad MirBut thank you so much, John, as always. Amazing to have you, and thank you so much for sharing all this wonderful, you know, stories that you talked about and working on Harry Potter and Philosopher's Stone or the Sorcerer's Stone, whichever one they wanna call it.

43:04John SealeThat's it. That's it. Thank you very much, Shahrood. It was a pleasure.