'Laapataa Ladies', Cinematographer, Vikash Nowlakha

0:09Jawad MirHey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Kingdom of Dreams podcast. I'm your host Jawwad Mir. Thank you so much for joining. Today my guest is Vikash. He's a cinematographer who has done a lot of work in the advertisement and documentary space, and he was the DP on the film Lost AKA Lapata Ladies, which premiered on Netflix a few months ago. If you remember, I spoke to the editor of the film, Jeblin, Merchant, back then, and today I have Vikash who talks about his journey in the filmmaking world, as well as working on Lapata Ladies, Lost Ladies, which is one of my favorite films to come out in a while. You can watch it on Netflix. A very powerful, very meaningful, very entertaining film. And without further ado, here is my conversation with Vikash for Lapata Ladies AKA Lost Ladies. Well, good to have you. I remember speaking to Jeblin, a few months ago when the film came out. I think it was probably in September or October it came out.

1:09Jawad MirIt's been a while.

1:10Vikash NowlakhaYeah, right.

1:11Jawad MirAnd yeah, it was a great conversation, and I absolutely loved Lapata Ladies AKA Lost Ladies. And now it's in the sort of preliminary round of running for the Oscars, well, which is pretty amazing, isn't it?

1:25Vikash NowlakhaYeah. Well, it, I don't think it got nominated, but yeah. It…

1:28Jawad MirBut it hasn't, the nominations haven't been announced yet.

1:31Vikash NowlakhaYeah, as far as I know, you know, it was an entry from India… ... But it wasn't, it wasn't…

1:37Jawad MirAh, okay

1:37Vikash Nowlakha... Selected as far as, yeah.

1:40Jawad MirThat sucks. Nevertheless…

1:42Vikash NowlakhaYeah. It's yeah.

1:45Jawad MirNevertheless…

1:46Vikash NowlakhaYeah, no

1:46Jawad Mir... Nevertheless, it was an incredible piece of film. I, you know, I think after Lagaan, I don't know if you've ever seen that one.

1:52Vikash NowlakhaYeah. Yeah

1:53Jawad Mir... The one that came out almost 25 years ago, it's one of the best movies that have come out from India, along with maybe 12th Fail that came out last year, I think.

2:00Vikash NowlakhaYeah, I appreciate that. Yeah.

2:02Jawad MirYeah.

2:02Vikash NowlakhaYou should chat with Kiran. I mean, she's, she's actually... Are you in LA currently or?

2:07Jawad MirI'm in Toronto. I was going to…

2:09Vikash NowlakhaToronto. Oh, okay.

2:10Jawad MirYeah. I was going to go to LA. I know a lot of people who have lost their homes in the fires.

2:15Vikash NowlakhaYeah. Yeah. No, please come.

2:16Jawad MirAnd, I was actually gonna go this week or next week, so I've been trying to. It's funny, Jeblin gave me Kiran's contact. I've been trying, I've emailed her several times, but I know she's super busy, so I gotta give it a shot, give her a shot again. Maybe she'll have some time.

2:31Vikash NowlakhaYeah. Yeah. I, this is actually, my first, my first interview actually. I've never really spoken about, any films I've ever done before or my craft or anything like that, or... So yeah, this is…

2:43Jawad MirNothing

2:43Vikash Nowlakha... A first for me, but, Kiran…

2:45Jawad MirI…

2:45Vikash NowlakhaKiran does a lot of it. She's been…

2:48Jawad MirYeah

2:48Vikash Nowlakha... Out lobbing for the film and, you know. I mean, there's a lot…

2:52Jawad MirYes

2:52Vikash Nowlakha... You know, for her to really, it's really, there's a lot for her to say about it, you know. I think this film was really, a director's film, you know? As a cinematographer, I mean, it's, it's, it's great to chat, but I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's…

3:07Jawad MirI think you're being humble

3:08Vikash Nowlakha... You know, very,.. No, for real. You know, so I'll tell you a bit about it, but yeah. Yeah. But

3:15Jawad MirWell, let's, let's, let's…

3:16Vikash NowlakhaI'll let, I'll let you, I'll let you shoot.

3:17Jawad MirLet's…

3:17Vikash NowlakhaYeah

3:18Jawad Mir... Let's do this first. Let's start from, which is a, it's amazing that, y… you know, to have you on. Let's start with your career first, how it started and what sparked it, what got you into what you do?

3:34Vikash NowlakhaYeah, it's a bit of a, it's, it was a bit of a lo… a long journey actually.

3:39Jawad MirI'm sure

3:39Vikash Nowlakha... I never, you know, imagined that I would be actually doing film. I studied, philosophy in university actually, like Buddhism and environmental economics, and was living out in Tasmania at the time. Didn't really grow up with, you know, too much film. I was in boarding school. We never really had TV or even really the opportunity to actually watch too many films. I moved to India in '97, really to continue my environmental work, because I felt that was, what was important at the time.

4:20Vikash NowlakhaI used to run a company, really doing, you know, eco adventure camps for kids, you know, so taking, city kids out into nature, you know, on camps, trying to educate them, you know, about the environment and putting them, you know, firsthand in, you know, real environments in, you know, in nature and, you know, trekking and hiking and rock climbing and whatnot. And it was only one day in the kids' school year, you know? And at that time, you know, in India we didn't really have environmental education as part of the curriculum in schools. You know, I was just a 21-year-old kid at the time and just rocking up to school principal and being like, "Hey, you know, can I take, you know, 50 of your kids out into the jungle on overnight camps and whatnot?" And some of them were very cool, very liberal. They gave me the opportunity to do that. But it just was one, it was already a stretch to just have one day in the school year, you know, where they could actually have a break day for the kids to kind of get out.

5:29Vikash NowlakhaNothing really consistent to kind of follow that up in schools. And multimedia had just come out at the time, and I was like, "Hey, you know, what if I make, multimedia CD-ROMs with educational material? Would you use that, in your school programs?" And, I was running this out of Bangalore at the time and, you know, a lot of the principals were very cool, very liberal, and very open, you know, I must say, and they were like, "Yeah, sure, you know, we'd give it a go," not even knowing, you know, what I was gonna come back with, you know? So… I then moved to Bombay and, decided to try and study multimedia. This was in XIC, and, you know, I hadn't lived in India since I was about 12 years old, so I wasn't so connected to Bombay or the space. I grew up, between Thailand and Australia, and didn't really know anyone when I came to Bombay. But I just so happened to run into, you know, a junior of mine in high school from Bangkok who'd also moved, to Bombay, and I needed a job, and, you know, he knew someone who knew someone.

6:41Vikash NowlakhaThere was a job going in a production house, and they did advertising, you know? And for me at that time it was like, wow, you know, this is diametrically opposite to what I'm trying to do, but maybe this is the way in, you know? Try and kind of work change from the inside. So I switched my major from multimedia to visual effects, you know, studied a bit of animation, compositing, and jumped into a production house in the early days in Bombay where, you know, there were very few production houses. There wasn't really, you know, a very established system, so as you came in as an assistant, you pretty much did everything, you know? You know, you were... If there was a problem in continuity and the actor's forgot his glasses on a take, it was your fault. If there was a glitch on the master tape, it was your fault you know? You'd get into everything from pre-production, styling, you know, you know, working on art, compositing stuff, sometimes shooting second camera, casting, you know, you name it.

7:55Vikash NowlakhaIt was, it was, you know, it wasn't a very structured system. But what was amazing was you could just get in and really learn everything. So, you know, I kind of put my head down and said, "Okay, you know, I'm just gonna immerse myself into this and try and learn." And, for me it wasn't so much, you know, the love for film that brought me into the film business, but it was actually understanding the power of the medium, to be able to communicate that then brought me into the industry, you know? So it was like, okay, this is a great medium to be able to communicate, to be able to touch people, to connect with people. This is something that's coming into their homes, you know? On this television you have access to so many people. So that journey really then started with me as a assistant director, you know, in a production house in, around '97, '98 in Bombay.

8:57Vikash NowlakhaAnd thereafter, I directed with MTV for a couple of years, because at that point it was pretty much the one space where, you know, you were, you know, you were given a lot of creative freedom, you know? And in India it was a really cool space in the late '90s, of where MTV was at, and a lot of the music channels that allowed expression and allowed you to say stuff. And in fact, they hired me to do, short films, you know? And really kind of one of the only things I watched, you know, kind of growing up and through university was the show in Australia on SBS called Eat Carpet, which was just…... A bunch of really whacked out short films. And I was like, wow, this is a way to, you know, have interesting ideas, reach potentially the same kind of market, and do interesting, you know, do interesting work that's, that's also creative. I went down that path for a couple of years and then, in the early 2000s MTV wanted to change their whole programming to be more, Bollywood centric, you know?

10:08Vikash NowlakhaThat wasn't, you know, my universe that I was familiar with, you know? And I couldn't direct that stuff. And I was like, "Listen, I, you know, I can't work here as a director, but I can shoot it," 'cause I've been, I'd been, you know, shooting since, you know, the early days when I started, when I started off, and through my time at MTV and so on. And, it so happened my father had, passed away the same year. He left me, some money, so I took that and moved to New York, studied camera, you know, worked in short films, worked the independent scene for a little while, and then returned to India, to then pursue cinematography, you know? So simultaneously I kind of, I had a production house where I did small little independent projects that I, that I really cared for, you know, documentaries and so on that I would direct.

11:08Vikash NowlakhaAnd commercially I would, I would, you know, hone my craft, you know, working advertising, music videos at the time. And, really thereafter a couple of films. You know, I don't do too many movies. I try and just find things that really kind of align with me, and sometimes it takes a decade to find the right, the right project, so maybe it's just, you know, maybe average a film a decade or something like that, you know? And yeah, doing the odd documentary and otherwise just kind of honing my craft, really with advertising all these years. So it's been, yeah, close to 30 years now in this, in this industry, largely advertising and, yeah, and the occasional film. But really I think, you know, especially even after Lapata, I'm really excited about doing more movies really kinda, you know, especially when, you know, you do a film that, you know, touches people and, you know, you really feel like, wow, you know, it's, it's really resonated with people on a, on a much deeper level… it's really motivating, you know, to then do more of that.

12:16Vikash NowlakhaYeah. Yeah.

12:18Jawad MirWell, that's amazing. I really appreciate you sharing such detailed story because it means a lot, because, you know, everybody has their own journey, and we live... It's, it's funny because, you know, growing up similarly with, like you, in the '90s, you know, back then all you can think of is being a director or cinematographer or whatever in that, in that realm. And there was, you know, at the time the advertising and corporate stuff and all the other fun stuff was there, but it wasn't that common. And now in the last 15, 20 years, people do a lot of those, but now that's shifting too, right? And I think it's amazing that your journey has been like that. And, in terms of you being an environmentalist, for the lack of better word, being, trying to be in it when you were, before you even got this into career, I haven't had a chance to look up if you've done anything in terms of a documentary because, I mean, documentaries are such social and powerful, you know, medium that you can literally have a massive impact.

13:24Jawad MirHave you done anything to that effect, or are you working on something that's more environmental based?

13:31Vikash NowlakhaYeah, I mean, you know, in India it was always a bit, a bit,.. You know, to finding, find the avenue to do documentaries was a very kind of narrow window. A lot of what I've done has been, like for Save the Children, I did a couple of projects for the BBC, you know, Planet Earth…

13:48Vikash NowlakhaThe Earth, you know, the Earth Change, both during the lockdown, which were really fantastic projects. You know, one was find, you know, following a herd of wild elephants through Assam. The other one was really, you know, on the Ficus elastica, the living root bridges in Meghalaya. So yeah, and then a bunch before that, some in the DRC.

14:11Jawad MirSweet.

14:12Vikash NowlakhaYeah, so like through my life, I mean, it's just been kind of spaced out, you know? It's always this balance of doing commercial work and also finding, you know, the few projects on the other side that, you know, really kind of give you meaning.

14:30Jawad MirYeah, no, I'm in the same boat as you, man. So I completely…

14:34Vikash NowlakhaYeah

14:34Jawad Mir... Understand. Going to Lapata Ladies or Lost Ladies, how did that come to be? If you can run through that to me and then, you know, once you got on, then I've come up with a n… well, I'll let you know the next question, but l… let's just talk about that briefly.

14:52Vikash NowlakhaYeah. Actually, the director, Kiran, I've kind of known her for several years, so

14:57Jawad MirOkay.

14:58Vikash NowlakhaAnd she just called me one day and, you know, she sent me the script and she's like, "Have a read." And it was an incredible read. I kind of, you know, laughed out loud. It was just, it was, it was, you know, moving. At the same time, it was funny. It was, you know, it had everything, and it was a real page-turner. And I was like, "This is amazing, but am I the right guy for this project?" You know? And I suddenly felt a little,.. You know, the thing is, you know, I think I've kind of put myself into a corner where I'm really, like, kind of known for more stylistic advertising kind of work, and here was a project which was so far away from, you know, my familiar world, you know, the world that I was kind of known for. And there was a great fear that, you know, you would enter something like this and contaminate it stylistically, you know? I felt it kind of needed to be, you know, just really... I mean, you know, it's, it's, when you get a script that you feel is,..

16:02Vikash NowlakhaHow do I say this? It's like, you know, it holds its own, you know, in terms of,.. It's, it's almost beyond your craft, you know? It's profound in itself, you know? It's, it's terrifying, you know, then saying, "Oh my God, am I just gonna, like, mess up something like this?" You know? Am I gonna s… taint it too much? Am I gonna draw attention to it, you know, visually? And that was something I really wanted to stay away from. I said, you know, this just, this needs to just be very real, be very, you know, to let it just be, you know? To let it just kind of take shape itself, to not make you feel like y… you know, it's been doctored, you know? And give it that sense of, you know, just d… you know, just making it, you know, so you don't really impose yourself upon something, you know, and you just kind of let it breathe for what it is.

17:19Vikash NowlakhaBecause what it's saying is so deep and so profound and so on point and so meaningful and so, you know, I almost... I mean, it was almost like, you know, it's, it's something, it's so, it… it's so pure in itself. I mean, like, oh my God, I'm gonna you know, I'm going to dilute that purity if I try and touch it, you know? So I really came from that space and, initially my response to Kiran was like, you know, "I don't know if I'm the right guy for this, because it's so far away from my visual universe." you know, I don't want it to feel like, you know, some city guy who's gone into a village and kind of done that outside look upon it, you know? It's the worst thing that could potentially happen to it, you know? You don't want an outside gaze on it. So maybe I'm not the right person for it, you know? And, I hung up and, you know, 20 minutes later she called me back you know, and she was like, "Oh, you know, I'd like you to consider it again."

18:28Vikash NowlakhaYou know? And, she's like, "You know, we're friends." And I'm like, you know, at some point it was like, okay, you know, if I can support someone who wants to say this, you know, just in whichever way I can, then maybe that's what, you know, I should do here. And then that was really, yeah, the beginning of that and then just deep dived in, and then it was just like, okay, now, you know, we're in it. Let's just... Yeah, let's, let's, let's get it.

19:02Jawad MirIt is such a b… bold, but it makes sense for her to choose someone like you. A, you being a friend, but B, you not being, you being in the opposite world, right? It's like similar to acting. A lot of great directors, they get actors that are, that don't ha… they're not typecasted, that haven't done anything similar to this before because even though they might say it's not possible, I haven't done it just brings a new challenge to them, and it brings out the best. And I think a similar thing is with your, you because you being in advertising, it's a completely contrast world, right?

19:40Vikash NowlakhaYeah.

19:40Jawad MirYou're looking about like a village, a train station, you know, and all that stuff, and it's, I wouldn't even have imagined, that you had a background that you explained right now considering what you did because it's an absolutely... It's the right word is not that it's not, it's not what I'm not, I'm not trying to say that it's the most beautiful film shot, but it is b… it is the beautiful f… most beau… one of the most beautiful films shot because it didn't overpower the story and the characters, and that's what's so amazing about it. And I find, and I think you know this too, and I, being in the industry, I know this too. I notice it, like, you know, when you're watching a film, whether it's in Hollywood, South Korean, Australian, British, India, whatever, when you start seeing a little bit of camera gimmick or a visual effects gimmick, subconsciously or consciously it is an attempt to hide the weakness in the story and the characters.

20:40Vikash NowlakhaYeah.

20:40Jawad MirAnd that's…

20:41Vikash NowlakhaI mean, yeah

20:41Jawad Mir... What was so riveting about it.

20:44Vikash NowlakhaYeah, no, for sure. I mean, you know, some, you know, some films have that, you know, need that language, right, to kind of be visceral…

20:50Jawad MirI g… I get that

20:50Vikash Nowlakha... And all of that. Yeah. Yeah.

20:52Jawad MirYeah. But sometimes…

20:54Vikash NowlakhaBut yeah, exactly

20:54Jawad Mir... Even in that they get too much, right? So you just have to find the fine line.

20:58Vikash NowlakhaYeah, exactly. I mean, look, at the end of the day, you know, we're always, you know, serving the story, right?

21:02Jawad MirYeah.

21:02Vikash NowlakhaAs cinematographers we're like, okay…

21:04Jawad Mir100%

21:04Vikash Nowlakha... You know, what does, what does the story need, you know? Where do we place this? Where do we place it emotionally? Where do we, you know, how do we, how do we taint it? How do we color it? How do we lens it? You know? Like, what's our language? What's our participation in this project? What is, what is our role here, you know? And for me, I think it was very clear that, you know, you know, you see a lot of stuff that, you know, especially, you know, when, you know, a lot of the urban folk like look at village life. There's, there's always a romanticized, either a romanticized view where we just kind of go super artsy and stylized on it, you know, and, really kind of put on another layer that might not be…

21:52Vikash Nowlakha... What it genuinely is, but we kind of impose that upon it, you know? Or we just go super gritty and grungy and dirty on it, you know? And…

22:05Jawad MirLike, Gangs of Waziristan

22:08Vikash NowlakhaY… yeah. I mean, you know, there's, there's... I mean, look, I mean, you know, everyone's got a different language and everyone's got different things to say.

22:16Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

22:16Vikash NowlakhaAnd, a lot of this tone on, in the film was, you know, and I always kind of, you know, for me the tone always really comes from the way the protagonist looks at the world, you know? You know, it was like how does he s… what is his, how would he see the world around him, you know? What is that, what is that texture? What are those tones, you know? That for me dictates, you know, lens choices, color, you know, how you kind of, how shadows kind of roll off and, you know, how contrasty an image is. It's, it's, it's, it's just the way, you know, the characters see the world, and here our primary, our primary characters, you know, all three of 'em. And there was a certain innocence there. There was a certain, you know, you know, it was like the edges were softened, you know? And I think that was something with Kiran, the director's tone as well.

23:21Vikash NowlakhaYou know, like, he wanted this lightness to it. And that for me really dictated the visual style, you know? And it was like, okay, you know, I can't, let's not, you know, draw attention to an image, you know? Let the story really kind of... And you want that, you know? You want it to kind of, you know, every time y… no matter what you work on, you know, you want it to feel like a real experience for the audience, you know? Sometimes when you draw your s… draw attention to a camera move or you draw attention to light, it's, it's like having a bad performance, you know, where you see the acting or you see, you know, a boom in shot. It's the same thing. You know, you're not composing a shot with the makeup artist standing in frame, you know? It's the same thing, right? It's…

24:13Jawad MirYeah

24:13Vikash Nowlakha... You don't wanna draw attention to your craft. You wanna keep it invisible. And in this, in this world, you know, just kind of… Wanted to feel as, you know, as objective as possible, kind of being there, observing, but not really forcing a viewpoint.

24:36Jawad MirYeah.

24:36Vikash NowlakhaYou know?

24:36Jawad MirAnd I think you said it perfectly well that it's, it, there was no enforcement. And when I talked about Gangs of Waziristan, I wasn't criticizing, it's one of my favorite films. I was just talking about the look and the feel. It's because every story requires... Because it's a different type of a story, right? And…

24:52Vikash NowlakhaYeah

24:52Jawad Mir... With this film, had the script been a little bit more, you know, like, kinda like a little extra sentimental, for the lack of better word, overdramatic…

25:02Vikash NowlakhaYeah

25:03Jawad Mir... Then certainly the look would've been different. But it was just done in a such a tasteful way because it wasn't... You didn't feel, you know, overly sympathized for the characters in the level where you feel sorry for them, but you felt sympathized for them. But at the same time, you know, you wanted something good for them, but you understood that they are, they have bad traits as well, which was, again, it goes back to the script, goes back to the story, goes back to character. Working with Kiran, I know you've known her for a while, was it the first time you were working with her professionally?

25:36Vikash NowlakhaThat's right, yes. Yeah.

25:39Jawad MirWhat is she like a director?

25:42Vikash NowlakhaI mean, she's, she's incredibly, she's one of the, you know, the hardest working kind of people I've, I've, I've, you know, I've, I've met, you know? She's really, and she's really, she really gets into details, you know? She's really in it. And she puts everything into it, you know? So it really, it makes you really wanna step up, you know?

26:09Vikash NowlakhaLike, if you, if you propose something, I know she's probably thought about it five times already, you know? She really gets in there, you know, in terms of real kind of micro detail and, puts every kind of ounce of energy into, her work and what she's doing. It was really in… inspiring, you know, to kind of work with her. She's really, like, just on it, you know? Like, 100%. And yeah, you know, it's, you know, it's sometimes you feel like, okay, you know, I like really working with directors who are super organized because then I feel like, okay, then I can take the ball and run, you know? You know, as a DP, a lot of times you kind of find yourself in a situation where you're just trying to, like, you know, hold it together, you know, if it's kind of scattered with production and so on. You're just trying to, like…

27:07Jawad MirYeah

27:08Vikash Nowlakha... You know, just bring it in and just make sure all the, all the things kinda work. But every time I work with a director, and I think I do best with directors who are, like, really, you know, meticulous and organized, it really, you know, allows you to then be spontaneous on the day because you know, you know, the bases have been covered, you know? And, you know, you're, you're fine here, you know? You're sorted here. Now you can kinda start pushing things and, you know, beyond that. So it's, it's, it's a, it was a great collaboration. It was absolutely fantastic working with her. She's, you know, really kind of, you know, really knows what she wants, and at the same time is always open to conversation, and that's, you know, you know, that's a fantastic combination to have.

28:01Jawad MirDo you remember a particular... I know these things sometimes can become difficult to pull out from the memory lane, but do you remember a particular moment or scene that you shot where it kinda just stood out for whatever reason that was? Whether it was humorous, whether it was challenging, whether it was emotional.

28:24Vikash NowlakhaWell, you know, I could talk about, just things in terms of, you know, light, you know? I was in one of the scenes in the station. ... And, it was one of the first few days, of the shoot I actually had COVID. We did a test just before we had to leave for shoot. And it, I, you know, got the results that, you know, on the shoot, you know, that I was, COVID positive, and then I had to make the call and be like, "We're supposed to leave tomorrow. Like, damn," you know? So I had my first AC, who's worked with me for, you know, close to 20 years, step in for me and shoot the first parts. And the first night I kinda came in, we're doing this night scene in the station and, it's a very restrictive space where we really had no allowance for any light coming in. It was a small little crack in the wall, and it was the only space to kind of throw a light into, you know? And, I remember reading this thing, it was this book I was reading on the elements of Japanese design, right?

29:44Vikash NowlakhaAnd it turned out to actually be, a book on philosophy really, you know, not so much on design. And it talked about, you know, sometimes if you really kind of restrict yourselves in your expression, but allow just, you know, one little window for you to express yourself, it could be like a kimono, but the only time you have an expression is, you know, behind the left ankle, you know, and that's your one streak. And I try to apply that to lighting as well, where okay, you know, you have conformity in the space, then you allow one hard brush stroke to come in through this crack. And just the way it kind of played with the characters kind of moving in and out of that light, you know, it just, it just, it… It just felt, you know, it, you know, it's really amazing when things like that happen because you don't, you don't really plan for it. And then there's magic that just kind of happens, you know?

30:46Vikash NowlakhaYou know, kind of brings you back to kind of just a general kind of, you know, a general kind of method where, you know, I think I kinda go through waves of, you know, really deep diving into, you know, previs and prepping, and then sometimes just going, "Okay, I'm not gonna watch anything and I'm just gonna react spontaneously to what's, what's happening in front of me," you know? And, it's, it's been really interesting because, you know, sometimes I feel like, you know, y… I mean, previs is great and I admire directors and I really love that. But, you know, it has its place, right? And I feel you previs all you want, but in a way it kind of belongs to the past because anything that you can pre-visualize is borrowed from things that have somehow made their way in, you know, that have belonged to the past. And you might be assembling them, but it really, it belongs to a river that's already f… passed by, right?

31:51Vikash NowlakhaAnd then when the only thing is the current moment that you're in, and that becomes the moment that's alive, where you leave previs behind and you're just reacting to something that's happening now, and that's when it becomes a live moment, you know? And I feel like that authenticity is what then audiences can really touch and feel, you know, to the sense of it being a live event, you know? So I love things like that, you know, you could, you know, maybe you haven't planned and things just kind of then just start bouncing around that, and it's a live event that happens sometimes between optics, the camera, actors, and, you know, action, and it just becomes a live dance, you know? And, those are the moments that I really treasure.

32:47Jawad MirI couldn't agree with you more, man. I mean, y… whether you're do… well, w… with doc, I mean, it's really difficult to do a previs because, you know, you're... It's organic. Everything is happening organically no matter how much you plan.

33:00Vikash NowlakhaYeah.

33:01Jawad MirBut even with the narrative, things on the set, it could be the lighting, like you said, coming from behind a cracked wall. It could be an actor who brought something else to the character that you did not anticipate, and it just, again, it's called movie magic. And…

33:19Vikash NowlakhaYeah

33:19Jawad Mir... Improvising, impro… having a plan is amazing, right, like you said, but I think op… opening yourself to improvisation is probably the best thing you can do.

33:29Vikash NowlakhaYeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, with this film, it really was that. You know? It,... I mean, the actors had so much energy. You know, they had so much drive. They had, you know, they were so keen. It was just like, okay, you know, I'm just trying to, you know, do as much justice as I can here to what's happening in front of me. I'm just like, "I just hope I can do justice to you guys"…

33:52Jawad MirYeah

33:52Vikash Nowlakha... You know, because you're bringing so much into this. So, you know, you create the room for them to move, to play, and, you know, you're like, "Okay, I'm just trying to get this," you know?

34:03Jawad MirYeah

34:03Vikash Nowlakha... So then it kind of informs your choices on, you know, on grips, on, you know... So most of this film was just really just handheld. It just had, you know, the camera just on a bungee at most and just, you know, just tried to keep it as fluid as possible. You know, touch it very little with light just where it, like, needed a little something. But otherwise just kind of keep it free for the actors, let it just, you know, play out, just see what the light is doing in the village and, you know, how it's kind of rendering. And, you know, you do all your homework before. You try and get the colors right of the space, the wardrobe. You know, there's a lot of thought and everything that went into that, especially with Kiran. But then when it's actually happening, you know, then you just try and be present, you know, and just say, "Okay, I'm just gonna let it happen." and it was great learning for me, you know, because a lot of advertising is the other way around. You want it so kind of doctored and you want it so, you know, you're working…

35:05Jawad MirYeah

35:05Vikash Nowlakha... Four hours for two seconds, you know? So it was great to have the freedom to just throw that out…

35:11Jawad MirBe…

35:11Vikash Nowlakha... And say, "Yeah, okay, let's just, let's get it," you know?

35:16Jawad MirAnd again, I think for me, I'm sure all the actors in there have been in some kinda TV or film before. For me personally, the policeman, the main policeman who was always…

35:28Vikash NowlakhaYeah

35:28Jawad Mir... Eating the bun…

35:30Vikash NowlakhaYeah

35:30Jawad Mir... Besides him, I had never seen anybody before ever…

35:33Vikash NowlakhaNo

35:33Jawad Mir... Like, in anywhere. And I'm sure, like I said, the, some of them may have been new, some of them may have done some work. But still, to work on a story like that, and it w… again, I think, the hats off to Kiran because it, she really brought the most amazing performances. The lighting, even, you know, the post-production, it just had this flow where you're so, I keep saying it, where you're so wrapped up into these characters that when the credits start rolling you realize you were watching a film, and that to me is one of, one of the most greatest things that you can do in a creating a film.

36:10Vikash NowlakhaYeah, no, awesome. I mean, that was, yeah, I mean, you know, that's, that's, that's a great compliment. Thank you very much. Yeah, I mean, that's really what you hope for, you know? You, like, you hope that, you know, you make a piece where people can really... I mean, for me, that's cinema, right? Where people can jump into and project themselves and experience what they're watching without being, you know, conscious that, you know, it's, it's, it's been doctored. You wanna… Give them a, you know, a live experience of this emotion, you know? In obviously, you know, a space where, you know, everything really is…

36:49Jawad MirYeah

36:49Vikash Nowlakha... Is doctored and set up, and you're trying to create pure emotion within that space.

36:55Jawad MirYeah. That's awesome. What are you working on next? Anything you can talk about? Doc or another narrative, or you're still in the deci… decision, deciding phase?

37:04Vikash NowlakhaYeah, I've been kinda six months in now on another film project. You know…

37:10Jawad MirGreat

37:10Vikash Nowlakha... A commercial kinda Hindi action movie. So yeah, it's been,... It's, it's, it's really exciting. Really, a completely different space now, you know, just kind of raw and gritty, you know, action movie. But yeah, great fun, you know, like sports day every day, you know? So yeah.

37:31Jawad MirThat's super. That's super.

37:32Vikash NowlakhaYeah.

37:32Jawad MirI mean, I think, I would, since you talked about environment, environmentalist, films and you… you being into that world, there's a doc that came out that got a r… lot of critical acclaim. My cinematographer shot it. It's called Plastic.

37:49Vikash NowlakhaGreat.

37:49Jawad MirIf you, if you find it, look it up. You'll, you'll like it.

37:53Vikash NowlakhaGreat

37:54Jawad Mir... It's just about how we consume plastic and how dangerous it is, and for us and for the environment specifically. But you might enjoy. Just thought I should let you know.

38:03Vikash NowlakhaNo, yeah. Wicked. I'll check it out. Yeah.

38:06Jawad MirExcited. Awesome. Well, listen, Vikash, it's been amazing. Again, anything else you wanna add?

38:14Vikash NowlakhaYeah, no, I think, yeah, I think you have kinda covered most of it. There's not much to say from me. It's just really like, okay, you know, we were just, yeah, you know, just trying to... Yeah, just touch it gently and make this film happen, and it wasn't, you know, there wasn't too much in terms of, you know, camera gimmick work or any elaborate…

38:36Jawad MirYeah

38:36Vikash Nowlakha... You know, shots to talk about or anything like that. It was just, you know, simple work.

38:42Jawad MirI will say one thing. I think you're a great storyteller. Not from a camera standpoint only, but just even talking to you in the last 35 minutes or so, you have a very unique ability to tell a story, and you should definitely consider directing something one day because, i… in terms of, like, a na… narrative, not doc, which I'm sure you have done. It's, it's very rewarding and soothing and relaxing to hear you tell your story. I'm just being upfront.

39:10Vikash NowlakhaThank you very much.

39:11Jawad MirSo yeah.

39:12Vikash NowlakhaNo, wicked.

39:12Jawad MirAnd I wish you all the best. Hopefully we can chat, whenever that next film is about to be released or is to be r… and when it is released, is about that. That'd be really awesome if you're up for that. Yeah.

39:27Vikash NowlakhaYeah. No.

39:29Jawad MirThank you so much, man.

39:30Vikash NowlakhaYeah, my pleasure.

39:30Jawad MirAnd I appreciate your time.

39:33Vikash NowlakhaYeah. Well, thanks for reaching out, and I enjoyed talking to you. Thank you very much for making the time.