'Tommy Boy', Director, Peter Segal

0:10Jawad MirWelcome back, everyone, to another episode of Kingdom of Dreams Podcast, the making of stories. I'm your host, Jawad Mir. Today, my guest is Peter Segal. He's a director who has directed very famous comedies, including the one that we're gonna be talking about today with Chris Farley and David Spade, Tommy Boy. It's been 30 years, and the film comes out on 4K on March 25th. My conversation with Peter was short but very, meaningful, and it was, fun to talk about the film as well as late, great, Chris Farley and a few other stuff. And hopefully in future I'll have him for a longer conversation. But without further ado, here is my conversation with Director Peter Segal for Tommy Boy. Hi, Peter. My name is Jawad. I'm from Kingdom of Dreams podcast. Thank you so much for joining.

0:54Peter SegalAbsolutely. It's intimidating. You've got the Spielberg book…... Staring me straight in the face.

1:02Jawad MirYeah, I know. I know. You're not the first one to notice that, so... But, good to have you. I'll just start off right off the bat about my familiarity with Tommy Boy, just be straight up. I… in the '90s, I wasn't really a fan of films like Tommy Boy and Dumb and Dumber and Ace Ventura, but, you know, as you kind of evolve in life, your taste sort of develops a little bit. And watching Tommy Boy, I think a few years ago I saw, I really enjoyed it, and then obviously now it's the 30th anniversary, so thank you so much for making it. I just wanted to put that out there first.

1:38Peter SegalThank you. Appreciate that.

1:41Jawad MirJust tell me the conception of Tommy Boy, how it, originated, and the roots, of the story and the screenplay, and then you coming on board as a director.

1:51Peter SegalWell, I had, worked with Farley a couple times in TV. I did an HBO special with him, and then, he was a guest on a sitcom called The Jackie Thomas Show, so I'd worked with him twice, and both times was before my, first movie. But I thought if I ever, you know, get the honor of being able to make a film for the big screen, I would love to have Chris's first starring role. And so sure enough, about a year or so later, I get this script on my desk called Billy III: A Midwestern, which was the original title. And, but at the same time, another SNL alum, Sandler, was making Billy Madison, so we didn't wanna have two Billy movies with two SNL guys, especially they're good friends. So that was, step one of, you know, my advice to any young filmmaker, when you're, when you get rid of a title and go searching for a new one, ugh, it's, you're, you're going into the abyss 'cause there'll be 400,000 ideas of what the movie should be called.

2:58Peter SegalFat Chance was one. Double XL. They're all terrible, right? And, but anyway, I did know that, the story was probably gonna be a road trip and I thought what inspired me was the story behind the story. It wasn't just about these two guys, but it was a father-son story, too. And so…

3:21Peter Segal... But that was a very different idea from what the original script was. And so in throwing that out and starting, again, we sort of cut the umbilical cord, from the ship, and we were just drifting. And suddenly now the SNL season was upon us, and we had run out of time, and we didn't have a script, a complete script, so we started filming with, you know, 66 pages. And, every day we were piecing it together, you know, with things that happened to us in our lives, things that happened to Spade in his life, Farley's relationship with his father. We just s… started drawing desperately, you know, knowing that it was gonna be a simple enough story to hang these moments on, but we, you know, got by the skin of our teeth.

4:10Jawad MirAmazing. Chris Farley, you know, just watching him in the film, you know, from a standpoint of how his figure was, he didn't have that kind of elastic personality, for the lack of better word, but still he was able to do so many things that even Jim Carrey has done, you know? Completely different, bodies for, you know, and he was just so much into it and so involved that you don't feel anything other than his performance. And one of the things I f… I've noticed in the film, and you obviously know better, I can... I feel like there was a lot of improvisation he probably pulled off with David Spade. Would that, was that the case? If so, do you remember anything like that, from 30 years ago?

4:54Peter SegalThere w… was… wasn't a ton of improv, but what we did do is, for example, one day there was a wardrobe test, and Chris came out of the wardrobe, trailer with his now iconic brown tweed s… suit, and he said to Spade, "Hey, Dave, does this suit make me look fat?" And Spade said, "No, your face does." I went, "Oh, well, that's going in." And, like, bit by bit, that was an improv bit but not while the cameras were rolling. We just started writing everything down. We were whoring ourselves for any bits of gold that these guys might have, you know, said to one another. And, so that was the extent of the improv, but not always on camera, though.

5:35Jawad MirRight. Was there anything, you know, for a, for a writer-director, when you make a film or anyone makes a film, it's the same case with me, like, there's always something personal inside a film that you intentionally or unintentionally kinda come across because that's what attracted you in the first place. Was there a personal element in Tommy Boy, maybe a father-son relationship or a friend-friend relationship that you sort of brought that into the film?

6:01Peter Segal100%. The father-son story was the thing that I was pitching that, I felt could ground this and give it a little bit of substance… ... So it wasn't just about jokes. You know, fulfilling, you know, your father's dream, that was definitely, you know, on my mind. But a lot of the things that we put in it literally came from my own life and Fred Wolf's life. Funny things, you know, like the hood flying up on the freeway happened to Fred, and, hyperextending the door at the gas station happened to me. The dead calm on the lake with little kids screaming at you happened to me on a date, you know, when I was in high school.

6:42Jawad MirOh, wow.

6:42Peter SegalAnd, so I mean, so there were personal things that we put in there, and things that I, you know, r… reflected relationships, you know, that not only I had with my father, but Chris and his father. It was very important to him.

6:57Jawad MirYeah. A… and speaking of Chris, I mean, as obviously, you know, two years or three years after, he had the sudden demise, and he was actually originally casted for Shrek, which became Mike Myers', role. I mean, watching him in Tommy Boy, I had truly felt that it was a big loss. I'm sure you did, too. A lot of us to have to lose someone of that kinda caliber. Do you... W… w… was it a year after it came out, the film, when he passed away, or was it two years? Remind me.

7:31Peter SegalI think it was, might've been closer to three 'cause I think it was in '98, I think.

7:36Jawad MirOkay. Were you working something with him on, with him again, like considering you had worked in the past, or was it, like, was your sort of working relationship at a pause after Tommy Boy?

7:47Peter SegalWell, I…

7:48Jawad MirOr…

7:48Peter Segal... Something happened after Tommy Boy. You know, Chris blew up and, became very popular and was offered everything. And he started taking things that I didn't think were great, and, so, you know, I definitely wanted to work with him again, and I kinda felt like there was an Uncle Buck kind of story in his future, something that, you know, that was sort of the film in Candy's life that he demonstrated, you know, a dramatic side and a serious side as well as the comedic. And I thought, you know, and Chris was trying to do, the Fatty Arbuckle story, and yeah, the writers of Shrek originally told me that they patterned the relationship with the donkey and the ogre after Spade and Farley in Tommy Boy. That's why they went after Chris. And

8:40Jawad MirAh

8:40Peter Segal... Yeah. So, but yeah, I tried to, but he actually got mad at me because he thought I didn't wanna work with him anymore, and I said, "No, you don't understand. I desperately wanna work with you, just not on some of these things, you know, like Beverly Hills Ninja." And he didn't want... He got sort of trapped by the money, and so I ended up writing him, like a seven-page letter that I sent to his mother to give to him, to really tell him, you know, how much he meant to me and how, you know, you know, besides Tommy Boy, the other times that I worked with him, I said, "I don't want that to be the end. Let's just find something great." You know, and so, you know, we never got a chance, though. We ran out of time.

9:28Jawad MirWow, seven-page letter. That's interesting. That must... I mean, you must have had a really close relationship with him to write seven pages letter. That must be really…

9:36Peter SegalBecause it meant, it meant that much to me. And the fact that I had, you know, unintentionally hurt his feelings, I said I had to, you know, rectify that. And, you know, this was before we had the internet. I couldn't just text him.

9:51Jawad MirYeah.

9:51Peter SegalYou know? So, that's what I did.

9:54Jawad MirDid he write back, or did he come back to you and meet with you?

9:57Peter SegalWe ended up talking. We, he almost... We talked on the phone after that, and then around that time, he had fallen back off the wagon, and so, things were starting to spiral, you know, around that time. And I think maybe some of his frustration might have been caused also by, you know, whatever he was taking at the time. You know? I don't know if he was, had a clear head at that, at that moment.

10:22Jawad MirDo you think, and this is just a speculation or I wouldn't even say speculation. Do you think sometimes... I mean, we know about this, that sometimes fame can do crazy things to people, you know, whether it's meds or whether it's just something else. Do you, do you feel that he was enjoying that fame, or did it get to his negative side of the brain or... I mean, you knew him well, so I'm just trying to understand if... I'll come back to the film in a second. If that's something you're willing to answer, I would love to hear that.

10:54Peter SegalNo, I was fortunate to, work with Chris during, I think, his most productive and healthiest… ... Part of his professional life on Tommy Boy 'cause he was clean and sober. But before that, he was not. When I worked with him on the HBO special, I noticed he had a huge scar on his arm, and I said, "Where'd you get that?" And he said, "Oh, I was, drunk at a party and I walked through a sliding glass door." And he almost bled to death. I thought, "Ooh," and that was the first time I knew that he even had a problem. And then after the Jackie Thomas Show, which he guest starred in, Tom Arnold, who was a good friend of his, did an intervention right after, you know, I yelled, "Wrap," and, he was put in a town car and they took him off to rehab. So then by the time Tommy Boy came around, he was clean, sober. Like I mentioned, he had replaced drugs and alcohol with caffeine, but that was okay, you know, by me.

11:54Jawad MirYeah.

11:54Peter SegalAnd then afterwards, I don't exactly know when he stumbled, but I think the, I think the am… the amount of, fame that had suddenly, you know, that he achieved. Yeah, I think it was hard for him to handle, and obviously had certain, you know, literally appetites for things, and I think it just got the better of him, obviously. It, and it spiraled out of control, and the more I would see him, the, it looked like the more he had, you know, gained weight, and, just didn't look healthy, and I knew something was wrong.

12:28Jawad MirYeah. Going back to the film, m… again, it's been a while, so I know sometimes it's hard to remember. Just on the set, were there... Two quest… or a two-parter question. The, were you guys couldn't stop laughing, right? Whether it was in the script or improv a little bit, and plus, what was the most challenging scene to film from a logistics standpoint, whether it was somebody not arriving on time, whether lighting was not okay, the location was an issue, et cetera, et cetera?

12:59Peter SegalWell, I'll answer the last question first.

13:04Jawad MirSure.

13:04Peter SegalAnd then you'll remind me of the first question.

13:07Jawad MirSure, no problem.

13:07Peter SegalAnd the, one of the harder scenes, to shoot was the hood fly up, you know, before the prehistoric forest. We had to put, the guys did a tremendous job, the special effects team, because they built a, an 18-wheeler, a truck platform that had a turntable on it. So the car could literally spin around…

13:32Peter Segal... While those guys were in it, but as it spun, somebody had to be triggering the hood to fly up and then go back down again. So it was like this constant ballet of mayhem, and I remember the electrical circuits weren't working, and so this poor guy had to get in the trunk of the car and literally touch two wires together, and by the time we were done with that take, you know, the trunk opened up, and he just got out of the car and threw up because he'd just been spinning around. So that was definitely the hardest for him. But, and then what was the first question again?

14:10Jawad MirAnything on the set which, you know…

14:12Peter SegalOh, which was hilarious?

14:13Jawad MirJust, yeah, hilarious that you guys couldn't start, continue filming, like you had to take a break or...

14:18Peter SegalWell, I remember…

14:19Jawad MirCall

14:21Peter Segal... When, housekeeping, you know, when Chris is sleeping…

14:25Jawad MirOh

14:25Peter Segal... Tommy's sleeping in the, in the hotel room. I thought, "Okay, let's try a couple of different reveals when he drops the bed sheet. One, you know, we'll do a PG-13 where he's wearing underwear and just shows the upper crack. One, where it's a different kind of underwear, and then one, let's just do it, with him naked." You know, and then I remember, Chris, I said, "And whatever you do not turn around. This is supposed to be just on your back." Well, of course you tell him something like that, and he didn't listen. So he turned around and started dancing and gyrating. And I said, "Okay, let's burn those dailies. I don't want those to ever see the light of day back at Paramount Pictures." We laughed pretty hard that day.

15:12Jawad MirRight. With Chris Farley, if he was still around, whether it was in the late '90s or early 2000s, or even now, would you do something with him? If so…

15:27Peter Segal100%

15:27Jawad Mir... Like a sequel of Tommy Boy or something completely different or...

15:31Peter SegalI think something completely different. I don't know, maybe, you know. And if there was a sequel, I don't think we would've waited 30 years to do it.

15:39Jawad MirYeah, that's true.

15:39Peter SegalBut I, like I said, I thought he was so, underrated in terms of his talent. And you know, he even said, you know, "I get stuck with this fatty falls down, everybody laughs thing." That's a phrase that he used, and he kinda felt a little bit like, you know, a trained seal, that people just wanted to see him a certain way. Screaming, falling through things, and but that was only just such a small part of his talent. So I would've loved to have explored other stories with him, absolutely.

16:15Jawad MirWere you at his funeral?

16:18Peter SegalI was not at his funeral. I went to, one of the, ceremonies back in Los Angeles. I went with, Spade, and, obviously… ... A lot of other people.

16:28Jawad MirFor sure. If there was one little thing, just as we wrap up, that you would say to him if he was listening.

16:36Peter SegalWell, he signed my poster, "Pete, come back to me." So, I will one day.

16:45Jawad MirWell said. Beautifully said. Well, thank you so much, Pete. I appreciate your time. Really excited to, you know, have the film come out again for people to see, a new generation see, and thank you so much for making it. I appreciate it, and I also enjoyed a lot of your other work, which we didn't have time to talk about, but maybe some other time. Really enjoyed it.

17:02Peter SegalThank you very much.

17:02Jawad MirThank you so much.

17:03Peter SegalAbsolutely.