'Lilo & Stitch', Cinematographer, Nigel Bluck

0:00Jawad MirWas there a specific moment where it just deeply hit you as a father? Because the film is about two girls who don't have parents, right? And from their standpoint. Do you recall that, and that really affected you emotionally as a human being?

0:14Nigel BluckWhen Maya's in her bedroom and the portal opens and she gets the visit from her sister, the older sister. I think that's, for me, a great moment in the film that, you know, they're gonna be all right. Th… th… they've got each other. That's, that's, that's all they'll need. The f… the f… the f… the future is bright, and there's a lot of, there's just a lot of love there, and a lot of... It was very genuine.

0:47Jawad MirGood afternoon, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Kingdom of Dreams podcast, the making of stories. I'm your host Jawad Mir. Today my guest is Nigel Bluck, who's a cinematographer on Walt Disney's most recent box office and critical hit, Lilo & Stitch. I, to be honest, wasn't expecting this film to be in any shape or form any good, but I took a chance and went to see it, and I was pleasantly surprised. And I shared my thoughts about the film in the conversation with Nigel, along with the wonderful other parts of the conversation that we had about lighting, about camera techniques, about story, deconstructing the script, and then reconstructing it as a cinematographer. Wonderful guy, talented guy. I loved his work in this film. It really took me back, to '90s and early 2000 as far as cinematography is concerned, and even the story itself, was wonderful and very simple and grounded. So without further ado, here's my conversation with cinematographer Nigel Bluck. How did you come on board, on the film? Just let's start off with that.

1:49Jawad MirWhat were the…

1:49Nigel BluckWell, I came on, I came on board kind of, it was just, I didn't have any history with the project. I, my agent introduced me to Dean. We had a meeting. Yeah, I was a really big f… am a really big fan of Dean's, Mas… Massiel. And I saw that treatment and the Lilo & Stitch treatment having a great potential there in terms of just, like, naturalism and sort of wonder and a purely child's true point of view, you know? So I was really interested in that, and Dean was very good at ticking that.

2:30Jawad MirExcuse me.

2:30Nigel BluckSo that's where it started really. And, yeah, I've never done a Disney movie. I've d… never done a kids movie. It's not something I aspired to do ever. But, you know, I have a 12… I had a 9-year-old son at the time, and I thought this would be a great opportunity, you know? So here I am.

2:51Jawad MirLovely. I'll tell you one of the things that stood out for me the most about the film, aside from, you know, overall being a decent film, a good film, an engaging film, entertaining film, is that it reminded me, and I have this conversation with my cinematographer quite often. I'm so tired, I don't know about everybody else, but I'm so tired of, like, those, you know, David F… I love David Fincher films, but there's this thing now with a lot of TV series, streaming series, films have that tone of colors, and it doesn't resonate with me. This one didn't have that.

3:26Jawad MirAnd it reminded me very much so of a film, I don't know if you remember, in the '90s came out, Monkey Trouble.

3:32Nigel BluckYes. Yeah, right. Very true.

3:35Jawad MirYeah. Not in te… it was a very tight story, and I loved the ending even though part of me as a, you know, story, like, if I'm, if I'm, if I'm directing a film, like, okay, why would a CIA agent go along with, you know, whatever is happening at the end? But that was the beauty of it because it kept it tight. It didn't make it like this into a gigantic, enormous thing, and it reminded me of very much of the '90s film. And those are the two things I appreciated very much.

4:01Nigel BluckYeah. I think it did a... It does, well, the story does a very smart job of, like, the secretive aspect of what's going on…

4:09Jawad MirYeah

4:09Nigel Bluck... And how it doesn't brush up against the world any more than it needs to. And therefore you're never quite sure if it's just in her head maybe or if it's actually happening, you know? I mean, that's something I'd never thought about till I was halfway through the movie. I thought, "Ah, imagine if she was just making all this up," you know? And that's relevant, you know? I mean, I think it's about, I think making films for kids is about trying to see it from their point of view, trying to see what they wanna see, and organize your thoughts and storytelling in a way, in their way. Because otherwise you lose them…

4:45Jawad MirYeah

4:45Nigel Bluck... You know?

4:45Jawad MirWell…

4:46Nigel BluckAnd I think of, you know, you mentioned that, mentioned that movie. I think of La Guerre, I don't know if you've heard of La Guerre de Button. It's a French film that was made…

4:55Jawad MirNo

4:55Nigel Bluck... In the '50s I think, black and white movie. Amazing film. L… like the French equivalent to, Lord of the Flies perhaps.

5:04Jawad MirOkay.

5:05Nigel BluckOkay, so it's the same example. It's like these kids going into this, a netherworld which may or may not exist. It's completely the construction of their own head, you know? And that's something that only children understand and only children have a business with. And but unfortunately there's no children filmmakers. So you sort of gotta go, you gotta go there and sort of figure it out from their point of view. And so, you know, a lot of what we talked about with Dean was, you know, what's the point of view of the film? What's the point of view of the scene? What's the point of view of the moment? Are we with her? Are we watching her? Just the simple things, you know, which is I think what makes up that language.

5:43Jawad MirI couldn't agree more. And then, and even though you were with her, it, again, going back to the '90s, '80s, '70s, I would even say the '60s, it had this... You know, nowadays between, you know…... Scenes, you would cut rather fast. When I say fast, I don't mean like 30 seconds. I mean maybe like two or three minutes you have in a scene, and you move on next scene because the audience attention span is very short, right? But this one kept, like especially the opening, which had absolutely no humans, right? That went on for a good, I would say, seven to eight minutes. It felt like that. I don't, I don't time it. And the same thing, like every time the story shifts from her, from Lilo to her sister, it's about her sister, right? And then everything is sort of coming together slowly and slowly. And yeah, it's, it's just, it just had this wholesome feel, right? And, yeah, and that's why it's, I think that's why it's doing amazing at the box office. I think it just resonated with people in a very deep and simple way, which was missing in the, in the film world nowadays.

6:44Jawad MirThere's nothing like that coming out.

6:46Nigel BluckYeah, and I think Lilo, Maya, is phen… phenomenal. You know, I think that, I mean, we could see it happening in front of us on screen.

6:55Jawad MirYeah.

6:55Nigel BluckIt was just like she was a, she... You know, the s… the film set will be grinding along as it usually grinds along and then she'd appear, and it would be this incredible energy, and she'd just like roll through, high-fiving everyone like a rock star and do a thing and then, you know, whip off to her next English lesson or maths lesson and then come back and do it again, and she really invigorated the set. And, she was the true barometer of the set, you know? When she was happy, it was happy. When she was sad, it was sad. When she cried, the film crew cried. You know, it was like, it really felt like there was not an ounce of pretense or beat up from her. As dramatic and as much of a character as she is, it all comes from a place of truth inside of her. And that is what's on screen, you know?

7:51Jawad MirYeah

7:51Nigel Bluck... And she also had a very innate ability to perform with something that doesn't exist, which is Stitch, obviously. And we had many different ways of f… filling her shoes, be it a puppet, a dog, a, her drama coach, which she had a lot of work with, off camera or on camera, and she, he was, she was in her place. But yeah, that was, that was it. She was very good at pretending and talking herself into the fact that Stitch was right there as much as the audience. Yeah.

8:29Jawad MirI'll, I'll... That's amazing. I'll come to that, but I just wanna make a one little compliment. I mean, there were some great shots in respect to the story and the emotion that was unfolding in different parts of the film. There were happy emotion, there were sad. The thing that stood out for me the most, and this is just the film geek in me, and the scene where she's at the hospital, Lilo and Maya, I think, I don't remember who she was with, maybe with her neighbor, if my memory serves me right, and there is a shot of Maya. Obviously, her eyes are completely, you know, about, she's about to cry, and then it cuts to Lilo. She's just playing with the nurse. And then the camera is on the neighbor, sort of, pulls up and you see Maya being revealed and her eyes becoming more watery. That to me was the film, that moment right there. So I just wanted to extend my, compliment to that. I thought that was really beautifully done in the…

9:29Jawad Mir... In the grand scheme of things.

9:32Nigel BluckInteresting. Yeah. I mean, yeah, those films, they always have those scenes, you know, the hospital scene or the waiting room scene, or what's gonna happen, you know? And it was like, how do we do something with that? And I remember being very careful with Dean about what, when we're gonna watch that scene and when we're gonna be part of it, to make sure that, when you're gonna be a part of it, when you're really gonna engage, it's really gonna have a depth to it, you know?

9:58Jawad MirYeah. Yeah. 100%. So let's go back to, the animation part, which you kind of touched upon, right? There were these, other objects or have you not that were, Lilo was constantly en… engaging with, so it looks as realistic as possible. What were some of the challenges? I mean, had you done something like that before as a DP? And obviously it's not your thing in terms of visual effects, but in terms of lighting and all that stuff, that has to come into play. What was, what was that like? If you can talk about that'd be lovely to know.

10:31Nigel BluckI think, you know, I haven't done a lot of that. I mean, I was conscious of it 'cause of Lord of the Rings and my involvement in that and just watching how that took place. But I think the, one of the main things that I kept on having to remind myself is if the, if the creature isn't there, then you don't really, you can forget to light for it. You can forget to create an environment or make a choice about where you're gonna put characters in a room because it's not there. But I think you need to think about that. Think about it's a small blue furry thing with fur that reacts differently to light than a human does, and like therefore, where's the best place to put them in the room, and will they be, or will they be okay in that part of the room? Don't ignore them. But I think it's often, a mistake people make is they ignore them, and then that creature gets put back into that environment and maybe it's a dark corner and there's no light, and they've gotta put light on it digitally to make it, to be able to see it, and then it doesn't have any reality, doesn't belong to the scene, right?

11:34Nigel BluckSo it's just about being very aware of what the final image is you're trying to create all the time and not just make the piece that's in front of you right now. Caretake that space that it's gonna live in and be thoughtful about, what it needs as well as the human or the person who can be on set. Yeah.

11:57Jawad MirRight. No, that makes sense, and that's, and that's why sometimes you do see on, in films where the line of sight of a character to a… ... Character or whatever creatures that's not there, y… you can tell. It's kind of off, even if it's, you see it, like, from a side profile, you can tell even the head is in the wrong direction, like, in terms of as the opposing. And which I... So when I saw the Lilo & Stitch trailer, I felt that in the trailer, but I did not feel that for one second in the film.

12:30Jawad MirI don't know if the trailer was still being finalized and whatnot in terms of visual effects, but in the film, I didn't feel that at all. I was right there with both of them.

12:38Nigel BluckWhich is great because there's a lot of... You know, we had a rough idea, or Dean had a rough idea of what the beast, the, Lilo was gonna be doing at the time in the scene, but it was never, like, exacting like that. It was always like there's gonna be a lot of change as the thing evolves and we see what the creature's like, and it might point there, it might point there. We don't know, you know? So,.. Sorry, I lost my train of thought there. But

13:09Jawad MirThat's okay. I get it

13:11Nigel Bluck... Yeah, eye… eye lines, eye lines are really important, and eye lines are tricky when you're l… working with a, with a little, a nine-year-old girl as well, you know what I mean? To try and get their attention and... But sh… you know, A, she was very good at it, and, luckily we're working with one character. I think it's very difficult when you get to, like, maybe there's two of these, three of these…

13:29Jawad MirYeah

13:29Nigel Bluck... Things in the room. That's a whole other world, you know? So it was good to be able to keep it simple in that way, you know.

13:36Jawad MirRight. Makes sense. In terms of your... I just lost my train of thought, too. I had a question. Your... What was I gonna ask you? Let me come back to that. So you were... Let's go back to your beginning of your career. I'll come back to Lilo & Stitch. Was it an accident that you ended up where you ended up, or was there a certain catalyst moment of watching a frame from a film or a, or a photo that, "Okay, you know what? I want to make moving images"?

14:11Nigel BluckI can't think of a moment. I can think of some films. You know, my f… I always say this, my father was very influential to me in film watching and filmmaking and understanding film for being more than just what it presents to be. It, you know, he taught me about, diagnosing cinema very early, breaking it down into understanding it's got different pieces and it's made up of... It's a construct, you know? It's not just what it seems, what it... So I was in, I... Look, I was always very interested in pulling things apart and building things, and part of what he was doing was pulling films apart. And so that was interesting to me to do what I was doing physically, but he was doing it metaphysically with film. So that was very interesting. He introduced me to some films that, were way off the mainstream like Two-Lane Blacktop and films of that sort which gave me a, "Wow, this is a really different point of view."

15:19Nigel BluckSo early on I had, introduction to the, to the many facets of cinema, you know? It was a very, it was a multi-shaped jewel to me that I, that was very, rich. So that was my interest in it. And then I through the years developed an interest and wanted to actually be a director, so I went to art school to learn to be a director, which, an art school which had a film studio. And I just ended up shooting everyone's movies, short films, and just naturally felt, gravitated towards the camera, I guess, and left film school, joined the industry, which is what you did at the time if you wanted to…

16:00Jawad MirYeah

16:00Nigel Bluck... Be a camera person. And, yeah. So it came from a curiosity about pulling things apart, I think, and it's still what I do today, and it's still the thing that really, fascinates me about this medium is you can never break it down enough, you know? It's, it's... In pre-production, I love the process of breaking the film down into its pieces and figuring out what you actually have and then watching them come to life around that. And, yeah, it's, it's, it's still a lot of the basic rules are at work that I was interested in the beginning. And I'm still pulling things apart to this day.

16:42Jawad MirSo I know what you mean by pulling things apart and deconstructing them and reconstructing them, right? But for the audience, let's take a movie of your choice. It could be Lilo & Stitch or anything that you worked on. What's the step of deconstructing the script and then reconstructing into a visual imagery?

17:02Nigel BluckWell, I think it starts with me with figuring out the markers in the script where the story changes, what the story needs, what the story doesn't need. It's very easy to run away with the shiny stuff and, like, get carried away on something that's like a big scene or something, a big, you know, whatever, effects scene. It's like l… often that's the least important part of the movie. Identifying what the really, what the heart of the film is, what the heart of the characters are, how you need to shine a light on these characters, when you need to shine a light on these characters. Just understanding the syntax, as it were, of the movie, you know? Like…

17:44Nigel Bluck... What you need to concentrate on, what you don't need to concentrate on, where the weak points are in the film and where the strong points are in the film. Because as a DP you l… you look to, as a leader on set and in pre-production as, alongside the director and… but from a production point of view, it's a lot about, okay, what are we gonna concentrate on in here? What are we gonna spend the money on here? What are we not gonna spend the money on here? What can we get away with, is always the question. And it's like, well, it gets diffi… it gets tricky because I come, sometime I become the gatekeeper of, like, I don't think we can get away with. I think we've gotta work harder on this or spend more money on this or find another location, because this location is adequate but not perfect. So that's how I see my role, is to be a bit of a... Align myself with the director, understand what they want and need, and try and fight for that, and f… a… a… and also your own vision of what the film is, you know? So yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's like working on a car.

18:46Nigel BluckYou know? You pull it apart, you fix the pieces that are broken, and you put it back together, and hopefully it'll roll down the road a lot better than it ever did, you know?

18:54Jawad MirGreat analogy. Great analogy. On this film, you talked about being a gatekeeper. Were there pla… were there moments where you're like, "This location's not good, and because of this lighting or because, the blocking will not work," et cetera, et cetera? If you can give me some examples of that.

19:13Nigel BluckYeah. There were... That, I mean, that happened a lot, and there are a lot of locations we went to that we didn't end up shooting in, and there were some locations that we did end up shooting in that I didn't think were that successful. But that's just always the thing about filmmaking. There's always a million things at play, and you've gotta be careful about what you fall on your sword for, you know, in the bigger picture. And a… that's the other thing as well, I think, is that you've got to remain objective. Objectivity is the, I think, the greatest, most important part of an artistic process, is that you've, you've gotta always be able to step back and look at it from a different point of view and assess it, you know? Because so much time in film, you just get so…

20:00Jawad MirYep

20:00Nigel Bluck... Sucked into a moment and a thing, and a lot of people hug around you, and they're all getting sucked into something, and you just can't see the wood for the trees, and it's often not very good, and you waste a whole bunch of energy doing that. But the people I've always had a lot of respect for are those people who can get into that passion and get into that level, but just for a split second, step back and look at it and identify it and be very honest, no ego, "Is this actually any good? Is this the right direction? Yes, no?" And be able to kill that baby straight away if it's not. And no remorse, just move on and put as much passion into the next direction. That's a great filmmaker, you know? And it's, it's a t… it's a, it's a tough thing. You're never born with that. You have to learn it, I think, you know? You have to have the experience and just learn the... And it, and you, and it could be in a different material. It could be a different world that you brought that skillset to filmmaking. And s… a lot of time I see that with filmmakers who haven't been filmmakers for long, but they've been something else for a long time, and they've got that skillset, and they brought it here.

21:03Nigel BluckThey're just abili… able to go like, "Yeah, this is a great idea, but it's not good enough. Let's move on and go over here. That's my idea. Your idea, it's, it's a lot better version of my idea. Let's do that." You know? And that, I think that's part of what makes great filmmakers is that generosity. I remember Peter Jackson walking on set on Lord of the Rings and just saying to everyone in the crew, "Look, I, these are a bunch of ideas. If anyone's got a better idea, pipe up, please. I'm interested." And people did, you know? And he listened to some of it, you know? And it's there. It's just... I think if, you know, as a filmmaker walking around a film set, if you walk around with the pre… pretends to be some genius and everyone else, "You're just there to service my vision," nothing ever good comes of that.

21:50Jawad MirYeah, no. Your, the film is done before it even starts.

21:53Nigel BluckYeah. It's, there's no hope, you know? The film will be, only be as good as it possibly could be on the page. It will never be great, you know? But if y… someone can walk on set and inspire a group of people to make it, this as good as it possibly can in this moment and that day, that's something. And that is, that's important I think from a filmmaker's point of view, and a lot of filmmakers don't, they forget to see that, 'cause they've got their head so buried in the sand. And people just won't put their heart on the floor for you if that's how you work, you know? So, yeah.

22:28Jawad MirWell said. I remember now what I was gonna ask you about Lilo & Stitch. So were there... So when the f… was the visual effects team working in some capacity more or less on the set, so you were able to see some of the dailies with Stitch? Or was it like everything was in post-production? Like, even if it was not fully composited or anything.

22:51Nigel BluckI mean, look, they were on set every day working hard as, you know, they always had to gather the information they needed every time and talk about the shot every time and what Stitch was doing in the shot real time and how we're gonna approach that. So it was being visualized. It was pre-visualized, to a point, but it was never, the pre-vis stuff that we had was never ab… ab… obeyed to by the frame. It was always changed. But it was always a constant point of discussion, and that's their role on set is to just, you know, "This is possible. That's not possible," just to know what's coming up. To answer your question about did we see rough stuff, I didn't see a lot of it. I mean, maybe Dean saw some of it.

23:34Nigel BluckThat's, that was more post, yeah, after my time.

23:40Jawad MirMakes sense. What... So you talked about you have a nine-year-old son or daughter, you said?

23:48Nigel BluckSon, Leo, yeah.

23:51Jawad MirWhat was the moment, scene-wise in the film that really... I mean, you said that there were scene, whenever she, you know, Lilo was crying, everybody sort of was crying on the set. But was there a specific moment where it just deeply hit you as a father? Because the film is about two girls who don't have parents, right? And from their standpoint. Do you recall that and that really affected you emotionally as a human being?

24:18Nigel BluckI think there were two moments for me. There's one, the m… the scene where s… where she sees, where Stitch comes to the planet, you know? Where she's watching through the window. You know, I was always looking for one scene of absolute wonder in the movie, and that was it for me. But it was interesting because Lilo being Lilo, M… Maya being Maya, doesn't do like, ah, wonder. You know, it's not in her wheelhouse. It's just not what she does. So sh… her version of it was quite subdued, but it was there, and I, and I thought that was really great, you know? So that was great for me. And then I think the scene at the end, the redux scene when Ma… when Maya's in her bedroom and the portal opens and she gets the visit from her sister, the older sister. I think that's, for me, a great moment in the film that, you know, they're gonna be all right.

25:18Nigel BluckTh… they… they've got each other. That's, that's, that's all they'll need. The f… f… the f… the future is bright, and there's a lot of, there's just a lot of love there and a lot of... It was very genuine, I thought. And, you know, it's a Disney movie. It has to wrap up…

25:37Jawad MirYeah

25:37Nigel Bluck...somebody in that.

25:38Jawad MirOf course.

25:38Nigel BluckBut I think it's a really good version of that as what I'm, what I'm trying to express is I think as far as that en… ending needed to be, I think the ending does that very well.

25:46Jawad MirYeah. I, it certainly does, and I'm glad you talked about that scene of the shooting star or, you know, Lilo coming in. One of the cool things I appreciated in that, so there are a couple of shots, if my memory serves me right, so there's one that where she's looking out the window, and then there's one with Maya is I think looking in the mirror, or there's a sh… mirror in the shot in some way, and you still see the shooting. So I mean, it's just like those little details…

26:10Nigel BluckA window. It's her reflection in the window.

26:11Jawad MirReflection in the window.

26:12Nigel BluckYeah.

26:12Jawad MirYou just see those little details and, you know, you appreciate them 'cause in most films you know, it's a different angle, you know. We can get away, we can cheat with it's fine. Which was, which I thought was really cool. And I wanted to ask you in the end, I don't wanna give away the film even though it's been out, you know, the whole underwater thing, the walk. What was la… that like? It clearly seemed to me that it was actually the ocean. I don't think it was a set. Or was it?

26:41Nigel BluckOh, 100%, 100%. So look, the water work was accomplished by the water unit m… m… mainly. I mean, I did the close-up work with the performance with Dean and, but anything that was, like, the physical stuff was all the water unit. Now, those guys were the most incredible group of water men, water women, the real Hawaiian deal. People who have just born, live in the water. And the, and they worked with the girls to get them to a really competent level, but they also worked with, a bunch of doubles basically and people who were doubling for the, for the girls or who were the other actors. The runner, the w… the rock run is actually the daughter of the lead waterman who was w… who was running everything in the water department, and that's actually just real footage of her. That's what she does. She runs across the ocean floor on a rock to train. So incredible stuff. And there was a lot of, that was one of the hardest technical things about the film was like, how are we gonna achieve these scenes? How are we gonna get this girl under, this little girl underwater? How is she gonna perform?

27:43Nigel BluckThere's a lot of testing about dry for wet, different ways of doing it. And, you know, it... I think what was achieved is really great and believable. And, I'm very proud of the work those guys did, a… as well as what we put together. I mean, I think it's, it really works.

28:03Jawad MirYeah, that under, there, I mean, there were so many underwater shots, but one for me that I may have seen this before, I may have even seen this in my own experience being, you know, at the beach or trying to just go with in the sand. But to see there's a shot, I think it was probably, like, a 50 mil or maybe 35 of her full body, and she's kinda climbing on this ocean floor, and you see the sand and you see the depth, and it's like, wow, you know? I've never seen that on camera from that point of view.

28:34Jawad Mir...maybe there's stuff out there, but I've never seen it. I just thought that was really cool because it really puts you in that space and makes you worry for the character that she's still got tons of stuff to go because she's climbing, right? Obvio… obviously there's a lot of cuts to make the pacing faster, but still.

28:50Nigel BluckYeah. No, absolutely.

28:52Jawad MirYeah.

28:52Nigel BluckAnd, you know, I mean, she got, you know, we got there. Her, you know, her sister is, I believe that her sister could do that, you know? She has that strength of character and strength of physicality that it's like you, when she gets up, picks that, picks Stitch up and runs, you just feel like it's somewhat plausible, even in a Disney alien character universe, you know? And again, credit to Dean for that. He has a really good sense of, like, where that line is of, like, what's plausible in this environment and what's not, you know? Because it's all about the environment you create as to what those rules will be and, you know, having them a… simultaneously as grounded as possible and as sci… as science fiction as possible, and where those two things meet is really magic. Like ET did, you know? It's, it's a similar sort of language, you know? So yeah.

29:52Jawad MirI'm glad you talked about that, the w… so the pl… the plausible part, right? So there's, when Maya, when Lilo can't bring Stitch up, and then Maya goes down, and my head is like, "Okay, she's a bigger, you know, she's older, so she's gonna be able to lift him up," and that's it. But the most, even that might have worked too, but… In terms of en… entertaining the audience and creating that element of suspense, okay, she decided to walk. Okay, maybe that's not plausible, but still it's engaging, and it works. It really does because the cuts and everything. Yeah, all in all, man, like I enjoyed it. I was really surprised about how much I enjoyed it. 'Cause I lo… 'cause I love the anim… Have you seen the animation? Did you see the animation one before?

30:39Nigel BluckI have, but you know, it's not something that I'd ever come across before I started talking about the film, and it's not something that I wildly engage with. ... What was important in it, I took away from and the localism of it, the feeling that it's a Hawaiian film about Hawaiian people, that is there in that animation. You know? It really has…

31:02Nigel BluckA…

31:03Jawad MirYeah

31:03Nigel Bluck... A feeling of that color and that's something I think we protected, and I feel like it's a, you know, it's, it's a film that the Hawaiian people are pretty proud of, I think. You know? And it was, it was kinda hi… You know, I come from a similar Pacific island where the culture is very similar and we, you know, it's, it's important to keep that going and give that a voice, and I feel like, as massive as this movie was, it, that voice is there and there's, and that's something that hasn't really been on screen before, apart from in the animation, and I feel like that now is in a live action version of it, which is, which I'm proud of. Yeah.

31:42Jawad MirYeah. Were you there when the fires happened? W… Was the production going on around that time?

31:47Nigel BluckYeah. Oh, no, we'd left by then I think.

31:49Jawad MirOkay.

31:50Nigel BluckYeah, we'd left.

31:51Jawad MirOkay. So, a different type of a overall question. I mean, there's films like, I may be missing so many of them, but I'm gonna name five of them. There's Black Stallion, right? There's Monkey Trouble. There's tons more from the '90s, which I can't remember. Then there's How to Train Your Dragon…

32:09Jawad Mir... Lilo & Stitch, and Iron Giant, especially those three. Right? It's literally about these two characters that are not in any way alike, and it's about their friendship, and the surrounding them. What is it that you think, I mean, even though Iron Giant bombed, but it's still become, like, a cult classic, and I'm sure there'll be a live action version of it considering the success of How to Train Your Dragon, Lilo & Stitch. What is it about those three films, or the, even the five, the ones that I mentioned, is that just somehow resonates with the audience? Is it the idea of finding a friend that you know, that we all sort of lack? We're always looking for people to get approval from, for the lack of better word, and someone you can sort of connect with.

32:54Nigel Bluck100%. You know, it's, you know, watching my kid grow up, or, and like, it's, kids are dependent on the, what bounces back at them to affirm their own understanding of the world. You know? The first thing that a kid does is they look to their parent for what they think of something they've just done. You know? So when a kid doesn't have so much of that, of that in their life, be it less parents, no parents, no friends, live in an environment that doesn't have that ability to resound, it's, it's really hard for them. You know? So they'll look to another thing. There might be a horse or an alien or something like that, and I think that's really valid and really good for those kids who don't have that in their life, that normalcy, to understand that there's other ways of moving through the world, that you don't have to be depend on, dependent on these classical forms of approval, the two golden parents, the nuclear family, whatever.

33:59Nigel BluckYou know?

33:59Jawad MirYeah.

34:00Nigel BluckAnd that to me is really important for cinema, to help those kids create, give them an understanding, give them a hope, give them a, "Hey, you know, maybe you could do this too, you know? Maybe you could find a way of finding these sounding boards in other ways than the things that you just don't have." and that's important, and that's important for cinema f… That's one of the potent things about cinema, I think, and, it's not, it, I take it very seriously. It's not just entertainment for me. It's something that, you know, has helped me in my life in times of, that have been tough, and I know it's helped a lot of other people in all sorts of, all, who speak any language in any part of the world, these universal stories. You know? That's what I wanna spend my life making and, universal themes, stories that have resonance that will last forever in terms of those messages. And, that's, that's, that's as powerful as any medium, I think.

35:03Nigel BluckYou know?

35:04Jawad MirRight. Yep. And it's, I forgot to mention the mother of all the films, E.T. I mean, that's pretty much what I would say started all this stuff. N… now that you're done with Lilo & Stitch and it's successful in terms of critics, in terms of audience, in terms of box office, everything, what are you, what are your plans for next, if there is a project that you're able to discuss, is there any, I'm sure there are gonna be Lilo & Stitch 2. If that happened and if you're asked, would you do it?

35:40Nigel BluckLilo & Stitch 2. I'm not sure about that. I'm, I'm not personally a massive fan of sequels, you know what I mean? I'm interested in when the sequels are, like, taking s… a kernel of that story and moving into a different direction. But, like, just a sequel for sequel, I don't know. You know? I'm not sure about that.

36:01Nigel BluckI… i… in terms of what's next, I'm not actually sure. I'm going on holiday. That's what's next. I've just finished another big project, so I literally have just need to put the tools down for a minute. But, I, you know… I'm just, I just, I try and change it as much as I can.

36:21Jawad MirSure.

36:21Nigel BluckI just, part of the problem is the cho… the projects choose me, I don't get to choose the projects.

36:25Jawad MirYeah.

36:26Nigel BluckIt can be a little, a little frustrating sometimes, but that's just the world we live in. So, you know, we'll, we'll see. You know, but I tr… what I do try and do is not repeat myself...

36:36Jawad MirGood. Good. What, are you able to disclose what that project is, or is it hush?

36:41Nigel BluckIt's, it's too early to tell.

36:44Jawad MirGot it. No worries. No, that's great that you're going on a vacation. Where are you heading?

36:50Nigel BluckTo Europe.

36:51Jawad MirLovely.

36:52Nigel BluckYeah.

36:52Jawad MirI hope you have a good time there. Great time of the year to go to Europe.

36:56Nigel BluckYeah. Yeah.

36:57Jawad MirAmazing. Well, thank you so much, Nigel. I truly appreciate your time, your work. Hopefully we get to chat again whenever this big next project comes out. And when you do know, when it's official, if you don't mind just giving me like…

37:11Nigel BluckOh, I can tell you what I've just shot. I mean, I've just shot Anaconda.

37:15Jawad MirAh. Remake?

37:17Nigel BluckIt's funny, I just completely, you know, what I just said is I don't do sequels, but I do sequels. And this is not the sequel. It's a, it's a different interpretation. It's still a Sony picture, and it's called The Anaconda, and it's basically a story about, some independent filmmakers who go to the Amazon to make their own version of the Anaconda movie.

37:42Jawad MirSo it's kinda like the Blair Witch Project. Sim…

37:45Nigel BluckPerhaps

37:45Jawad Mir... In that kind of... Perhaps.

37:46Nigel BluckYeah.

37:50Jawad MirNo, I'm looking forward to that because I remember watching the theater, and it was a 4:00 show of the original Anaconda with J… Jennifer Lopez that came out in the '90s, and it was one of those rare films that actually, you know, after Jurassic Park and Jur… The Lost World, at that time there wasn't that many those kind of films, and it was actually pretty good. I still have seen it a couple of times. It was pretty good. So I'm looking forward to that.

38:15Nigel BluckGreat. Great.

38:16Jawad MirAwesome.

38:16Nigel BluckSo…

38:16Jawad MirWell, have a, have a great vacation, Nigel.

38:19Nigel BluckThank you. Thanks for taking the time.

38:21Jawad MirPleasure. Thank you so much. Take care. Bye-bye.

38:23Nigel BluckBye.