Episode 259 Ā· September 3, 2025 Ā· 1h 0m
Lighting 'Chief of War' Apple TV+- Series, DP Matthew Cheung
Clips and Shorts from this episode
About this episode
šļø On this episode of the Kingdom of Dreams Podcast, I sit down with cinematographer Matthew Cheung, whose work on Chief of War brings epic scale and striking intimacy to the screen. We dive into his journey behind the camera, from his early career beginnings to capturing the massive battle sequences that define the series. Matthew shares what it was like to film in unpredictable rain, the challenges of getting equipment and crew to a remote island, and the unforgettable moment of being welcomed by an active volcano. Along the way, he reflects on how these experiences shaped his craft, his resilience, and his passion for visual storytelling.
Matthew Cheung is a cinematographer known for his work on high-end television and film projects, including serving as Director of Photography on the Apple TV+ series Chief of War. With a background in both narrative and commercial filmmaking, Cheung has built a reputation for his strong visual storytelling, blending cinematic scale with intimate character work. His style often emphasizes natural light, dynamic camera movement, and immersive world-building, making him a sought-after collaborator for epic, character-driven stories. Beyond Chief of War, his body of work spans features, shorts, and branded content, reflecting versatility and a commitment to visual craft.
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#chiefofwar #appletvseries #apple #indigenous #hawaii #maui #jasonmomoa #series
Full transcript
Automatically generated from the episode audio, so expect the odd misheard word or name. Speakers were labelled automatically. About 10,000 words. Tap a timestamp to play from that moment.
0:00Matthew CheungIt was the first time I'd been a part of something where me being of an Asian background had a lot of influence in what the story was and how we approached certain things. I was a big Jackie Chan fan. The way he, like, obviously, you know, when you were a kid watching his action films, and obviously the choreography of the fighting with the, with the camera and how it blocked and how they captured the movement and when they cut, I kinda like started paying attention to that. You know, when we're filming, like we're shooting in, on the ocean or we're shooting full sun or rain. Before we shot the big battle scene on Big Island, day that we flew in to shoot that scene, a volcano went off on the island.
0:51Jawad MirWelcome back, everyone, to another episode of Kingdom of Dreams podcast, The Making of Stories. I'm your host, Jawad Mir. My sincere apologies for not being around for almost a month. Unexpected plans came up for which I had to travel and just didn't get around to doing any episode. In fact, I had another episode that we had already filmed about three weeks ago that I never got a chance to put it up. So today, we're gonna start off with that, with regular episodes every other day, plus, some live functionality that we will be implementing on YouTube only, maybe on Instagram as well, and then that will later be uploaded on, Apple and Spotify. But having said all that, today my guest is Matthew Cheung, who is a cinematographer for Apple TV+ new series, Chief of War. Keep in mind we did this episode when the first episode came out about a couple of weeks ago. I think the show is on the episode five and six now. It was a great conversation. We talked about episode one. He touched upon a little bit on episode 10 without giving any spoilers, and a lot of technicalities in the lighting, and also his personal stories and how he got into cinematography.
1:55Jawad MirSo without further ado, here is my conversation with Matthew Cheung, cinematographer for Apple TV's show, Chief of War. I would love to know how you got on to this project at first. And then we'll diā¦ dive into your past work and obviously the series itself.
2:12Matthew CheungYeah. Yeah. So, Justin Chon, who directed the first two, episodes, I did a film with him before called Blue Bayou. And, yeah, he was in talks to, possibly direct this, and he wanted me to shoot it. And, you know, it took him, quite a few months to get me on to convince the powers that be to meet with me. This is my first TV show, but I had worked with Justin before, and obviously we had a really great relationship on that. I did a film called You Won't Be Alone with Goran Stabilecki directing. It went to Sundance.
3:01Matthew CheungSā¦ A film about witches in 1800s Macedonia, so it was kind of roughly a similar kinda time period. But, you know, I shot a lot of that, naā¦ quite, naturalistically in sun and, obviously, firelight. So we knew that was kinda roughly the similar, you know, quite a similar, visual aesthetic that Justin was going for, so he used that. And then, you know, that had just been released in Sundance and was, had a little bit of, had, you know, really great reviews, so he could use that to convince people to... That I was, suited to do this filmā¦
3:56Jawad MirSure
3:56Matthew Cheung... Or series.
3:57Jawad MirSure. Fair enough. You know, one of the things I really appreciated about this, and I'm, I'm seeing this now a little more than usual, there was a long period of time when everything that was coming on streaming, even films in theaters, the color deā¦ desaturation, kinda like a David Fincher styleā¦
4:16Matthew CheungYeah. Yeah
4:17Jawad Mir... Has been there for ages, and I have been talking like how I'm so tired of it. Like, if I see something like that now, like I don't want to... I can'tā¦
4:24Matthew CheungYeah, right
4:25Jawad Mir... It's very hard to get into. But this, was completely opposite, you know, which I, which I really appreciated. Not, and it should be because, I mean, that's what the film look is supposed to be about. Obviously, you canā¦
4:36Matthew CheungYeah.
4:37Jawad Mir... Do it in post or as much as you want. But, that was really pleasant to see.
4:43Matthew CheungOh, very well. Thank you, man. Like, you know, this is the first time something of this scale has been done about Hawaii, Hawaiian history, Hawaiian culture. And, you know, Hawaii is obviously quite a stunning place, but also, you know, the wardrobe, the designs and, you know, the case and the feathers and obviously the greens and the forest and the blues and the water and the sky and... You know, we wanted to have it feel very real and natural, and, you know, to showcase Hawaii in a way that, you know, like I said, it's the first time it's kinda likeā¦
5:22Matthew Cheung... Hawaii shot for really Hawaii and Hawaiian culture. So, you know, we really wanted to stay true to that and really kinda showcase the, beauty of it. Yeah, and then that means, you know, like, yeah, we didn't wanna push too much of a look on it. Yeah, so that's kinda where we kinda went, came from it.
5:44Jawad MirRight. Right. And in terms of, I'll, I'll talk about the very first sequence in the... Firā¦ first of all, you did the first two episodes only, or you did more than that?
5:54Matthew CheungNo, I did first two episodes, episode five, eight, and nine, the finale. Five and eight were directed by Brian Mendoza, and the last episode is directed by Jason Momoa.
6:09Jawad MirOh.
6:09Matthew CheungSo five and, three and four, the, I end up shooting, like, half those episodes as well, co-director on. Yeah, so you know, we started in Hawaii. We started with one and two, then we end up shooting, bits of five and eight and also the big finale battle scene in Hawaii before we shifted to New Zealand.
6:37Jawad MirSo 99% of it's shot in Hawaiiā¦ ... The islands of Hawaii, or more, or less?
6:44Matthew CheungNo, I think less. Maybe like 70/30 orā¦
6:49Jawad MirOkay. Fair enough.
6:50Matthew CheungYeah. We had to shift. So you know, the show is pretty big, but you know, Hawaii unfortunately the tax incentives aren't that great. The crew are incredible, and obviously the location's incredible, but we needed to go to somewhere like New Zealand where there's a tax incentive for filmingā¦
7:14Matthew Cheung... And you know, they also have the resources to be able to build sets and stuff like that, and they have stages. And yeah, so we had to go there to just get the whole series within the budget that we had.
7:25Jawad MirAwesome. So going back to the opening sequence in the, in the film, the shark huntā¦
7:33Matthew CheungYeah
7:33Jawad Mir... If you could call it.
7:34Matthew CheungYeah
7:34Jawad Mir... Rā¦ walk me through that. I mean, the, when I was watching it, I was just kind of thinking in my head, you know, about 50 years ago a film called Jaws was made, and it had its own problems with the water and shark andā¦
7:46Matthew CheungWater. Yeah. Yeah.
7:48Jawad MirSo, I mean, obviously this is not an entire film about that, but just keeping that in mind, just run me through how you guys shot it, underwater and with the shark.
7:58Matthew CheungSo yeah, for that sequence, we shot that all on, in the ocean in Hawaii. So you know, they made this incredible,.. It's not called a boat. I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head. But the sailing device. So they made that. The production made that, and then obviously it made it, with a lot of amazing people involved so it could actually sail. You know, the actors and Jason Momoa had sailing lessons, so they actually were sailing the boat you could say. And that's actually him really in the ocean when he jumps underwater. So you know, we shot that pretty much for real, minus the shark. But you know, there was a,.. Shooting on water is quite common in Hawaii, so we had, Brian Keaulana, who is, like, the water guy in Hawaii.
8:59Matthew CheungHe does all the water films. Him and his team supported us. You know, we had, like, a, like a barge with a camera on a crane, and also jet skis. And then, sometimes the camera operators would jump on the jet ski when they're sailing and just shā¦ you know, move around them. And then, yeah, and that's really Jason underwater.
9:26Jawad MirAnd was that, likeā¦
9:26Matthew CheungYeah, it was
9:26Jawad Mir... I'm assuming... So there was a sequence, there was a shot of him holding the shark's fin
9:34Matthew CheungYeah
9:34Jawad Mir... Uā¦ under the water, which could be CGI. I don't know. But the one that was outside at the end when he's actually finished the hunting andā¦
9:42Matthew CheungYes
9:42Jawad Mir... The fin. So that was... I'm, I'm assuming that was, like, a static orā¦
9:45Matthew CheungSo we actually had, a shark built.
9:50Jawad MirOkay. That's whatā¦
9:50Matthew CheungAnd so that, we had a shark that was built, so the fin is real, and obviously the shark at the end where he kinda, like, leans into it and yeah, that's a, well, that's, you know, like, our fake shark. And then, yeah, then they supplemented the shark with CGI. We scattered real sharks. We filmed real sharks underwater, but Apple, or the production said we weren't allowed to actually have actors in there. So, yeah, we're, yeah... 'Cause yeah, sharks actually aren't... Yeah, if you know how to film with themā¦
10:30Jawad MirYeah
10:31Matthew Cheung... And maybe people just beingā¦
10:32Jawad MirThey're not that dangerous
10:32Matthew Cheung... You know? Likeā¦
10:33Jawad MirYeah
10:34Matthew Cheung... Yeah. And you know, like, Brian Keā¦ Keaulana, he had this device where it's like a motorized pod that you can kinda hold onto, and you can dive underwater and then kinda, you know, move around, underwater with it. And you know, we did that. We tested that, and it was, like, quite a lot of fun. But he designed one where he had a rope attached to it, and that's why when you see Jason being pulled by the shark, it looks quite real, is because he's actually being pulled underwater. They just took out the pod and put in a shark. So you know, like, yeah, it was all underwater and yeah, it was, obviously quite difficult to shoot.
11:18Jawad MirYeah
11:18Matthew Cheung... You know, water, the elements, the boat's constantly moving, and we're always trying to, like, align everything for the sun. But yeah, with the crew of some really talented and, very experienced people, we managed to get it done.
11:34Jawad MirSuper, man. That's really cool. Let's, let's go back into your career. What was, what was the moment, do you, if you recall, that became the genesis of who you are today? Was it a specific film? Was it a shot? Completely accidental?
11:53Matthew CheungI mean, Blue Bayou was, like, my first real film, and that was with Justin. You know, we shot that on 16 mil. You know, before that I did a few, like, super small films. And even before that it was just, like, you know, mā¦ music videos, commercials. But yeah, I would say Blue Bayou is the first time where it's,.. You know, Justin, before that he had done two films that were smaller films that both went to Sundance. You know, the script was about something very relevant in the United States. It was the first time I'd been a part of something where me being of an Asian background had a lot of influence in what the story was and how we approached certain things in that film. Sā¦ and, that was a...
12:53Matthew CheungYeah, it was the first kind of proper film where, like I said, it was about something, so we knew the importanceā¦
12:59Jawad MirSure
12:59Matthew Cheung... Of what we were telling. And obviously our own previous eā¦ our own life experiences. You know, like, I'm from a Taiwanese background, but I grew up in Australia. You know, the film Blue Bayou is about, a Korean American who was adopted when he was young, so he kinda grew up in the South, in New Yoā¦ in the, United States, in, New Orleans. So there's a lot of, like, previous experience in life that's kinda similar to that we utilizedā¦
13:32Jawad MirSure
13:32Matthew Cheung... In the film, into, like, utilizing our filmmaking. So I guess, yeah, that's the first time where, you know, we did that film and then, you know, that film did well, went to Cannes. So it was, obviously a dream to do that, do something of... A film of that sā¦ you know?
13:46Jawad MirSure. That's, that's, that's awesome. But I was going to ask... What I was askā¦ trying to ask you, like, the root of everything, like, were you a kid when you watchedā¦
13:56Matthew CheungOh, sorry. My bad.
13:57Jawad MirYeah, it's okay.
13:59Matthew CheungI mean, I grew up watching, you know, Spielberg films, Scorsese. And then, you know, then I would venture off into, like, Wong Kar-wai and John Woo films. And then
14:15Jawad MirBut when did you realize that cinematography is what you want to do? Do you remember that moment?
14:20Matthew CheungYou know, I was a big Jackie Chan fan. And watching his... The way he, like... Obviously, you know, when you were a kid watching his action films and obviously the fight scenes and everything, but then, you know, when you start to study it, the choreography of the fighting with the, with the camera and how it blocked and how they captured the movement and when they cut, I kinda like started paying attention to that.
14:48Matthew CheungAnd yeah, soā¦
14:51Jawad MirAnd this is the nineā¦ '90s Jackie Chan or '80? Like whenā¦
14:54Matthew CheungYeah, like old school Jackie Chan.
14:55Jawad MirYeah.
14:55Matthew CheungLike Police Story One and Two, and, you know. 'cause yeah, you know, you start seeing, like, some behind-the-scenes stuff and you're like, "Oh, wow, okay." Like, you know, it's all quite designed. And I, yeah, I remember paying attention to, like, yeah, how the shots kinda evolve from one to the next. Andā¦
15:20Matthew Cheung... You know, I guess I was keen of certain things, for sure. And even now I'm, like, referencing Jackie Chan and John Woo, even in this series.
15:31Jawad MirI felt that for a sā¦ a little bit when in some of the sā¦ shots, in episode one. I think I've kinda felt like a little bit of Fā¦ Face/Off in some... I mean they'reā¦
15:44Matthew CheungOh, yeah?
15:45Jawad MirThey're, they're completely different films. Just like, you know that sequence of,.. Maybe I'm, maybe I'm looking into it too much. You know where... Now I'm, I'm terrible with the characters' names. So where the king, he's trying to convince the protagonist that you should joinā¦
16:02Matthew CheungOh, yeah
16:02Jawad Mir... The fight, and he takes him into that sort of like a, the light hitting there.
16:06Matthew CheungOh, yeah.
16:07Jawad MirSo that entire thing, the way that took place, it... I don't know if it reminded me of Face/Off or Broken Arrow. There were certain sequences in thereā¦
16:16Matthew CheungInteresting. Oh, yeah
16:17Jawad Mir... That kinda made me feel like that. Yeah, absolutely.
16:20Matthew CheungOh, interesting.
16:21Jawad MirSo you hit the nail on the head.
16:24Matthew CheungNo, that's kinda interesting.
16:26Jawad MirThe... Yeah.
16:26Matthew CheungYeah. I mean, you know, like, especially John Woo, like the way he does his action scenes, how he mixes slow motion with normal speed and it goā¦ you know, like, it's just so, like, poetic for, you know, somethingā¦
16:40Jawad MirYeah
16:40Matthew Cheung... That's quite sā¦ you know? And then I know definitely the battle stuff, we utilized that, but also, you know, even, like, yeah, moments like that, where you just mentioned, you know?
16:54Jawad MirYeah. And that's... Since I brought that, the sequence up, the light hitting
16:59Matthew CheungYep
17:00Jawad Mir... The... You know, tā¦ talk to me how that was comā¦ composed, because that was my favorite in the entire episode. Just the... Not just in termsā¦
17:07Matthew CheungGreat
17:07Jawad Mir... Of lighting, but also in terms of the emotion and the moment, and I thinkā¦
17:11Matthew CheungReally?
17:11Jawad Mir... It was like a pivotal moment in the entire episode for hisā¦
17:14Matthew CheungAh.
17:15Jawad MirHe shifted, right? Like that pretty much convincedā¦
17:18Matthew CheungYeah
17:19Jawad Mir... Him, like the prophecyā¦
17:19Matthew CheungYeah
17:19Jawad Mir... And all that.
17:21Matthew CheungYeah. Yeah, where he, yeah, presents him with the heart and the, andā¦
17:25Jawad MirYeah
17:25Matthew Cheung... His father's bones.
17:26Jawad MirYeah.
17:27Matthew CheungThat's interesting because, you know, like, we had a light coming from the top and then, you know, the production designer, JF, he designed it so we could... You know, it was like a, you know, a sā¦ a light could come through the, through the top. So we always knew that we wanted this, like, shaft of light coming in and the feeling of it. But, also, you know, that's kinda interesting because, you know, that's, one of my favorite performances of Jason in that scene. And, on that particular day Justin was like, "Hey, Mac, can you jump under the camera, and can you, Can you shoot the scene with Jason? Because, you know, we didn't know how many take, like, you know, it felt like he was already mentally kind of there, so we didn't wanna stop and start, and we just wanted to keep him in that moment. And that's where we kind of went to handheld.
18:30Matthew CheungYeah, so that's something that, yeah, Jason said, "Hey, Mike, can you jump under the camera for this?" And then, yeah, then we kind of just ran through the scene without cutting too much, you know? So maybeā¦
18:43Jawad MirYeah
18:43Matthew Cheung... That's something that we felt
18:45Jawad MirYeah
18:46Matthew Cheung... But yeah. But, like, Jason was, like, right there, and then he was, you know, we're, we're only gonna get that really in that moment. So yeah, no, it's interesting you brought that one up.
18:57Jawad MirNo, I really, I really admired that sequence iā¦ in every which way. And, just kind of random thought, I'm guessing you guys were there when the fire happened, right? Was it around the same time as theā¦
19:10Matthew CheungOh, we weren't there when the fire happened. That was after us, but we were there before we shot the big battle scene on Big Island. The day that we flew in to shoot that scene, a volcano went off on the island, and all the locals thought it was a blessing from the, from the gods and the land. And then, it stopped when we finished the battle scene. And yeah, when weā¦
19:45Jawad MirInteresting
19:45Matthew Cheung... When it was like, you know, like, say what you want to say, you know? I think Jason really feels it was quite profound that, yeah. So, you know, when we first got there, they had to, like... We're supposed to shoot, and then the volcano went off, so they had to, like, stop production to just chā¦ you know, check the air and check all this. You know, we're on the other side of the island, but, you know, it just gave us tiā¦ one extra day to prep this huge battle scene, which we spent eight days shooting on a real lava field by theā¦
20:15Jawad MirThis is the last episode, right? The episodeā¦
20:17Matthew CheungYeah, this is the final big battle sceneā¦
20:20Jawad MirYeah
20:20Matthew Cheung... The season builds up to. Yeah. And that oneā¦
20:25Jawad MirYeah. No, that's, that's really, that's really good to know. And I'm really curious, so do you have the entire episode one shot in a language that majority of the people in the crew did not speak, including you, I'm guessing. Correct?
20:40Matthew CheungYes. That's correct. Yep.
20:41Jawad MirOkay. So especially from a cinematography standpoint, and I would say editing, too, but I would say cinematography mainly because there's a lot of stuff happening and emotions are being drivā¦ So did you have, like, an English translation version of the script with youā¦
20:58Matthew CheungYeah
20:58Jawad Mir... Or your assistant, and how did you sort of maneuver the... How difficult, different was it from, you know, obviously shooting something that's in English or your native language that you can understand?
21:08Matthew CheungSo, thā¦ that's a very good question. You know, we knew that the first two episodes were all, was gonna be in native Hawaiian. You know, this is a language that, they tried to suppress, and they tried to, force the Hawaiians not to use. So, you know, this is the first time that's, that language really has been heard in that, on something of this scale. And obviously they had, you know, a lot of, cultural advisors and, language coaches for all the actors. And obviously I've read the script, so I knew what the scene was about. But to be honest, whenever I film anyway, in general, I never really have, like, headphones or the recording.
22:09Matthew CheungSo for me, I'm just looking at the images, and if I could feel what they're feeling, regardless of language, if I could feel that just from the images, then I feel like, you can kinda get a sense of what's going on, if that makes sense.
22:31Jawad MirNo, it does. And I think it kind of remindā¦ it's kinda like, watching a silent film essentially.
22:36Matthew CheungIt's great. Yeah
22:36Jawad Mir... Right?
22:37Matthew CheungYeah.
22:37Jawad MirBut at the same time, you know, when a, there's moments in any production when the director says, "Okay, you know what? The camera needs to shift at this beat, so at this dialogue, at this word," you know, maybe this way or upwards or downwards orā¦
22:52Matthew CheungYeah, I guess it'sā¦
22:53Jawad MirWas there... Yeah
22:54Matthew Cheung... I guess it's, I guess that's mostly just how the actors and the energy are, and by their facial expressions and their body language. You know, sometimes a lot of, you know, a lot of films, it's not always about the dialogue as per se. It's like how much they're, you know, emotingā¦
23:15Jawad MirYeah
23:15Matthew Cheung... The energy and, you know, like... And you know, like, I did this film called You Won't Be Alone, which I mentioned before, the one about the witches. That was in... All, that was all in Macedonian. Soā¦
23:27Matthew Cheung... I've had some kind of experience in that. And once again, it was coming from just, like, sensing and feeling how the actors are responding in that moment and what they're, yeah, what they're feeling is kinda, like, more what I tend to do, even if it's in English, you know? Yeah.
23:50Jawad MirOkay. No, that's, that'sā¦ That's... It's, it's interesting, right? Because, the reason I ask that question, because all of us, I shouldn't say all of us, but majority of us in the West, in the West, are growing up with watching films in English.
24:07Matthew CheungSure.
24:07Jawad MirAnd there's alā¦ there's always this expectation to have everything in English, but at the same timeā¦
24:12Matthew CheungYeah
24:12Jawad Mir... It's good to seeā¦ The native languages. Because, you know, like my background, like if I'm watching a film from my background, and if I see thatā¦
24:21Matthew CheungRight
24:21Jawad Mir... English, like in my head I'll be like, "They don't speak English like that like all the time over there, so why are they..." English obviously is catering to the West, right?
24:28Matthew CheungYeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Of course. Of course, you know. And then, you know, like obviously it is a big gamble for Apple and for us to do it, the first two episodes and, you know, 'cause a lot of people don't wanna read subtitles or, you know, like... But I think it was important for us to
24:51Jawad MirStick to that
24:52Matthew CheungYeah. You know, because I think it means a lot to a lot of people, and, obviously it means a lot to, you know, to keep this language alive and for people to hear how beautiful it is, you know. Once again, that comes down to the responsibility part that we all felt. And, you know, the series does progress in a little bit more English
25:12Jawad MirYeah
25:12Matthew Cheung... When you watch it. Obviously the settlers come, and then theyā¦
25:14Jawad MirYeah
25:14Matthew Cheung... They teach Hawaiians English, you know, so it's a mixture towards the end of the series. But for the first two episodes, yeah, I think it was
25:29Jawad MirGot it. What... Sorry. What is one thing... So it's kind of like a two-part question.
25:39Matthew CheungYep.
25:39Jawad MirWhat is one thing that you learned about the culture that you did not know before? But was one of the... What was the one thing that you learned about yourself because of the culture?
25:51Matthew CheungThat's a really great question. You know, I didn't know much about Hawaii before this. I've never been to Hawaii before this. You know, the closest thing I might have seen is like a little bit of like Maori culture in New Zealand.
26:15Matthew Cheung.. So coming into it, you know, and having seen films that are about, you know, other cultures is, you know, especially like, you know, watching Jack Chan films and John Woo films back in, you know, like... Or like that Mel Gibson film
26:36Jawad MirBraveheart?
26:37Matthew CheungNo.
26:38Jawad MirOh, The Echo.
26:39Matthew CheungThe Echo.
26:39Jawad MirYeah. Yeah. I know exactly what you're talking about, yeah.
26:41Matthew CheungSo, you know, like seeing that world, I'm like, "Oh, wow." You know, that's something that... And you know, that was, both of those films were, you know, references for us. But yeah, coming into this, you know, like as soon as we landed, like we were obviously shā¦ in for quite a lot of like just asking questions with the cultural advisors and then seeing how important this is for the history and, you know. What I learned from them, I mean, there's so many things, but
27:15Jawad MirBut something that taught you about yourself that you didn't know before. I know it's a very kind of like a big question, butā¦
27:22Matthew CheungBut yeah, with the Hawaiians, I guess it's just like their connection to the land and the, and the water. And, you know, like Brian Keaulana, who's a waterman, like the way he speaks about water and how they're connected, like I'll be like, "Oh, I've never thought of that before in that kind of way." And I guess for myself, from what I learned, maybe it's like an extension of that, is like being like... I mean, purely on like a,.. Purely on like a connection, I guess, to like, you know, when we're filming, like we're shooting in, on the ocean or we're shooting in full sun or rain or, you know. So like a lot of our filming, our days or our constant like shooting stuff is always dictated by the environment and the weather and what is provide, like what is like in front of us at that particular moment, and that changes throughout the whole day.
28:36Matthew CheungSo it's really embracing all like the, environmental, you know, what's kinda like present, you know. And then even in New Zealand, like sometimes we'll shoot out on a cliff at night, and it's like completely fogged out, but it looks stunning. So we're just like utilizing what's kinda given to us by, you know, the gods or the, you know, the weather or, you know. So it's like really embracing what... You know, because there's, we can't control that, so we just have to uā¦ work with it and adapt to it and to be honest, like really, utilize it and, embrace it. So I guess that's probably something that I learned.
29:20Jawad MirSure.
29:21Matthew CheungJust because, you know, like for them, like if it, if it rains, it means something to them, you know. Like, you know, if a volcano explodes, it means something to them, you know. So like it's all like just like really embracing all those, yeah, things that happen.
29:35Jawad MirNice. Nice. I know only two episodes have come out. I think the third one comes out on Friday.
29:45Matthew CheungYep.
29:47Jawad MirTalking about, you can talk about the first one or you can talk about the second one. I haven't seen the second one, but since it's online, I'm open for you to talk about it.
29:56Matthew CheungYeah.
29:56Jawad MirWhat was the chā¦ what was the most challenging sequence that you did in the first two episodes that really made you... Like, you know, sometimes when you're doing some scenes, it's kinda like second nature, like shorthand, you know how to do this.
30:10Matthew CheungOh.
30:11Jawad MirBut then something always comes out of the... Either, even if you knew before or something happened on the set, you knowā¦
30:17Matthew CheungYep
30:17Jawad Mir... Like rain or a volcano. Like something that was really challenging and how you dealt with it on spot.
30:23Matthew CheungSo the first two, you know, like the water, the scene on the water that we mentioned before, that was obviously, you know, like I haven't really shot on water before. Justin hadn't really shot on water before, you know, so we did a lot of research into that, and just, you know, seeing, like how do we move the camera and how do, you know, how do we work within those elements? But obviously, you know, we had a lot of support there when we're, you know, coming down to it. But you know, we shot a lot of tests, and we went out with the boats and all that kind of stuff. And that particular day was like full sun, so we really had to like work with the sun, and the direction is very important when you're shooting withā¦ when the sun's out. And that was also the same with the battle scene. Once again, like it's, it's like the sun is harsh, you know, so we really have to work within that, especially like for a battle scene, which is obviously quite big in scale.
31:33Matthew CheungYou know, and having like multiple cameras and stuff like that. So that was like both of them were very challenging, 'cause it's such a big group of people. You know, if it's like one or two people, then you kind of like, it's quite easy.
31:46Jawad MirSure.
31:47Matthew CheungOr like a small group of people, you know. But because it's a battle scene, it's like a huge, you know, thing. So, you know, we're thinking of like, all right, it's full sun. How do we add layers and texture to this, you know? So a lot of it's like smoke and flame bars and shooting through flame bars, so you get the, like the haze.
32:12Jawad MirMakes sense.
32:12Matthew CheungAnd, yeah. And then, you know, there's a moment in that battle scene where I wasā¦
32:19Jawad MirThis is the episode one, right, you're talking about?
32:21Matthew CheungYeah, episode one. There's one shot in that where I remember, shooting it. We had this, Phantom camera, which is like you can shoot super slow motion.
32:37Jawad MirYep. Yep.
32:37Matthew CheungSo we had that on top of our main camera. So it was like maybe our fifth camera. So I was operating that on like a zoom lens, and then, you know, everything's in normal speed, but, you know, it was like we're shooting at like maybe like 600 frames or something like that. And yeah, there's this one shot in the, in the battle scene where we shot something, and then it wasn't till like I sā¦ the way Justin cut it in the edit, I was like, "Whoa, this is likeā¦ this is really stunning how they've used that." And it's not like a typical shot in a battle scene. It's like you barely even see Jason Momoa. It's like, it's through like a lot of like heat haze. But like the music kind of stops at that particular point, and you just see him like as like a silhouette of him walking in the distance with all this like foreground action and this heat haze. And thenā¦ And we, you know, we hold it for like, you know, quite a little bit.
33:40Matthew CheungBut I remember seeing that in the edit, and I was like, "Whoa, that's like..." It just takes this whole thing into like this other kind of like realm, you know? Like, it's kind of a little bit surreal, a little bit abstract. But, yeah, the way... Yeah, Justin put it in there as like, yeah, one of my favorite moments, like seeing it all come together. 'Cause it's not really expected, you know? Likeā¦
34:03Jawad MirYeah
34:03Matthew Cheung... There's just something about it.
34:07Jawad MirI gotta, excuse me, I gotta re-watch that. I may have seen it, but now it's, my memory'sā¦... Not registering. You talked about cameras. So you said you used five cameras, one being Phantom at 600 frames per second orā¦
34:21Matthew CheungFor the battle scene, yeah.
34:22Jawad MirWhatā¦ Did you guys use Venice or, Alexa?
34:26Matthew CheungNo, it was a mixture between the, Alexa Mini LF and a RED RAPTOR. Yeah. Yeah.
34:39Jawad MirNice.
34:39Matthew CheungSo it was a mixture between those two. The rest are most, from sā¦ episode three onwards, it's mostly on the RED RAPTOR. Jason has a really good relationship with them. So, yeah.
34:53Jawad MirFair enough. And, you know, you'reā¦ we're talking about pretty much forā¦ at least for the first episode, everything is outdoor. Fair thing to say?
35:07Matthew CheungYeah. Yeah.
35:09Jawad MirWell, more, 99%. Soā¦
35:12Matthew CheungYeah
35:12Jawad Mir... In term, in terms of lighting, right?
35:15Matthew CheungYep.
35:15Jawad MirSo you have so much daylight. You have everything around you. It's like a vast open space, except some shots when they're about toā¦
35:24Matthew CheungYep
35:24Jawad Mir... Dine. How much in the daylight scenes, not the night scenes, or maybe even the night scenes, how much lighting you actually used versus using the actual natural light?
35:36Matthew CheungSo most of the exteriors, just the way... So yeah, scouting locations is a big part, and then finding the path to the sun is a big part. And Justin, Jason, and Brian, the directors, they, you know, they knew a lot about, direction of the sun. So generally, we try to shoot towards it, so the sun's backlighting or sidelighting our actors. If it's front lighting, it's generally not that favā¦ flattering or, you know. So backlight always gives you like a lot of depth. So we would kinda like know what the sun path is doing at any location, and we'd design our scenes within the day to fit within which direction we wanna shoot.
36:30Matthew CheungSo, you know, throughout the day we'd shoot towards the sun, and it would gradually kind of shift around and move around. If it's cloudy, then we can kind of shoot whichever direction. But to be honest, a lot of time it's day, it was sun and clouds, so we're just navigating that fā¦ constantly. And, you know, the camera is constantly, like, fā¦ fairly mā¦ you know, it's moving around quite a bit, so we do see quite a lot of the space. You know, like surf men areā¦
36:57Jawad MirWhich is something I like
36:58Matthew Cheung... Yeah. And, you know, like we worked, you know, the choreographer, the camera with the, with the blocking. So we did quite a lot of that sā¦ because we're seeing so much of the space. And you can't really have sā¦ too many stands and all that kind of stuff. You know, we had, fā¦ for a few of the forest locations, we did have cranes with big lights on them, for sun if we needed it, if it was cloudy. So sometimes we would have to use that, if the scene... Particularly we wanted, like, shafts of light or sun. But otherwise, yeah, a lot of it's, like, planned beforehand. And, you know, we would just adjust as we arrive on the day if it's, like, looking like clouds or sun, or sometimes you have to wait for clouds, sometimes we would wait for sun. But, generally we didn't have, too long to wait. So, you knowā¦
37:55Jawad MirYeah
37:55Matthew Cheung... Sometimes if we could, we might put up some, silk and just strap it onto trees and stuff. But to be honest, a lot of the time that wasn't, like, big enough for us to cover. And at night, you know, our main source of light is firelight, but then when you shoot with fire and flames, if it's in shot, you know, the flame's bright, so we needed quite a lot of lighting for the surrounding area. So there's moonlight, and then they're always on, you know, big cranes andā¦
38:32Matthew Cheung... Cherry pickers. And we had, like, flame bars or more light off camera to help enhance the firelight. So for the night scenes, there's actually quite a lot of huge lights, with kind of like... You know, it's not... I think it's we've found a good balance, like the city kind of in the distance, but not tooā¦
38:54Jawad MirSure
38:54Matthew Cheung... Bright as well. Yeah, so our nighttime stuff was, like, quite extensive when it comes to lighting. And you know, as the series progresses, then it goes into more staged stuff, more set stuff.
39:09Jawad Mir'Cause the story probably demanded it, right?
39:12Matthew CheungWell, yeah, one and two, yeah. One and two, you're right, mostly it's, like, quite natural because we kind of want to set that tone. But then as the series progresses, we definitely have more
39:21Jawad MirYeah. Yeah
39:22Matthew Cheung... Yeah, it's stages and sets and, you know, bigger kind of night scenes andā¦
39:27Jawad MirNice.
39:30Matthew CheungYeah.
39:30Jawad MirI wanted to ask you one more thing before we sort of, kind of go into the concluding stuff. What was... And, you know, what was one thing, maybe there were many, but, something that you can remember. And no matter how experienced anybody is, even if you're Steven Spielberg, I mean, even he says, like, when he comes on the set for the first day or first few days of the film that he's about to direct, there's always thisā¦
39:54Matthew CheungYep
39:55Jawad Mir... Fear in him. Like how is thisā¦
39:57Matthew CheungYep
39:57Jawad Mir... Gonna go. Do you remember a few moments where you're like, "what, this is, like, a really big production"? Or were you, maybe, "How am I gonna taā¦" You know, anything that sort of, that evokes that emotion of fear and how is this gonna work out?
40:15Matthew CheungPretty much every day.
40:18Jawad MirThat's what I thought.
40:19Matthew CheungPretty much every single day was that. I've... Personally, I find filmmaking very torturous because, you know, you... Like especially with Justin and Jason and Brian, you know, like we have really high, we wanna, like we set our standards really high for ourselves. Obviously with the responsibility of Hawaii and their culture, that adds to that. But for us, like, you know, if we take on a project, like we wanna try and push ourselves, try and, you know, like really kind of push ourselves to the limit of what, you know, is capable given the time and resources that we have. And, you know, of course we had quite a lot of resources on this, so our level of standard jumps up even higher is because, you know, like there's so many incredible filmmakers inā¦ involved in all different areas and, you know, production design and wardrobe and special effects and, you know.
41:26Matthew CheungBut we always want everything to be on screen. That's our biggest thing is, like, it just, it should be all on screen and the work should kind of speak for itself.
41:37Jawad MirYeah
41:37Matthew Cheung... So day on this was just, like, torturous because, you know, you're dealing with stuff that you can't control, like the weather, and you're constantly like... We're just constantly adjusting and, you know, we have the trust in our crew to be able to, like, pivot and, trust that we're giving the cast the time that they need as well to perform. And yeah, I think that's, like, when it all kind of starts to come together in a way that, you know, the actors and the camera and then, the wardrobe and, you know, like everything kind of becomes cohesive, I think is kind of like what you kind of strive for. So yeah, every day was, like, painful and torturous. And you know, like, yeah, the, all the battles are, like, stuff in the water. Even, like, the small drā¦ dramatic scenes, like you wantā¦ You know, and you want them to feel genuine and real and, you know, and then, yeah, the big battle scene, like, that was, like, the toughest thing I've ever been a part of.
42:48Matthew CheungSay, eight days on a lava field, which is like, if you, if you've been in a real lava field, like, it's like walking on the moon. Like, you put your hand on the ground and it, like, youā¦ you'll get cut. It's like, it's so hard to walk on that thing, let alone shoot a battle scene. So figuring that out, we needed every single person to be a part of that. And we, you know, we had, like, five units on that, and the way the scene is designed and written is it starts off during the day, and it goes in a sunset, and then into night. And there's likeā¦
43:21Jawad MirOh, wow
43:21Matthew Cheung... Lava. So, like, just planning and piecing that together for, yeah, this whole battle scene with all the different characā¦ you know, all the characters are in that scene. And, you know, like, piecing all that and trying to get it done within eight days, which, you know, is not a lot of daysā¦
43:39Jawad MirNot enough time. No, it's not
43:40Matthew Cheung... When it's that size.
43:41Jawad MirIt's not.
43:43Matthew CheungSo that was something that was very nerve-wracking for us. Everyone, you know, I saw so many crew, like, at the end of the day, like, exhausted orā¦
43:53Jawad MirYeah
43:53Matthew Cheung... Crying.
43:55Jawad MirI would let you, I would let you hold off on that, because I would love to have you on again for the last episode, and we can talk aboutā¦
44:01Matthew CheungOh, of course, man. Yeah. See, once you see that episodeā¦
44:04Jawad MirYeah
44:04Matthew Cheung... I thinkā¦
44:05Jawad MirIt puts more perspective for our audience, and even for myself, right?
44:08Matthew CheungI think, you know, like, the reviews have come out. Like, they reviewed all nine, so, you know, they do talk about it. Like, we had, like I said, we had five units. Jason got Justin and Brian all to direct certain segments at, you know, we were all kinda shooting roughly at the same time, then we would all come together. So it's, like, a lot of, like, peā¦ you know, likeā¦
44:33Jawad MirYeah
44:33Matthew Cheung... Our first AD, this guy, Casey Colwell, who's, like, a veteran first AD, he's, like, one of, he's the best I've ever worked with. But, you know, he's worked with, he's worked on films with, like, Tom Cruise, and Sean Connery, and, Jack Nicholson. And, you know, like, he's done some big stuff. But even he said to me when we were planning this thing, you know, we had a plan which kinda lā¦ sounded like it possibly could work, but even he said to me, and he was like, "Matt, I have no idea if this plan is gonna work. I have no idea if wā¦ if we're gonna succeed." But for him to say that is incredible, you know? Like, he's like, "Yeah, but, we're all down." And I think all of us knew, every single person in the crew knew thatā¦
45:21Jawad MirYeah
45:21Matthew Cheung... Everyone needed to, like, you know, it's like I'm talking, like, everyone. Like, makeup were probably there, like, hair and makeup were probably there, like, four hours before, because they had to, like, dress and do makeup for everyone, and put tattoos on all the extras, which is, like, hundreds of extras. Stuntmen, you know, transport, you know. We had, obviously, people constantly going, and then they had to build roads for that, and then, like, yeah, there's so many people involved in that. Like, the special effects, like running smoke everywhere, and rain barsā¦
45:55Jawad MirYeah
45:55Matthew Cheung... Andā¦
45:56Jawad MirBut I think it's, it's, I mean, I know it's hard. It's not as easy as I'm saying. It's important to be on your toes, no matter what you're doing, especially in this filmā¦
46:06Matthew CheungAbsolutely
46:06Jawad Mir... Because it, that brings out the best in you, and sometimes it brings out the things that you never planned that work out to be better. I mean, some of the most amazing sā¦ scenes in films, or shotsā¦
46:16Matthew CheungRight
46:16Jawad Mir... Or whatever, they come out of the most bizarre places, like improvisation.
46:21Matthew CheungYeah, that's right.
46:22Jawad MirLikeā¦
46:22Matthew CheungYeah, that's right. You know, like, especially with this film, because there was so much that we had, you know, ideas of how to approach different scenes. But to be honest, like, we're dependent on a lot of things like, once again, the weather. So we're constantly shifting, or we're constantly like, you know, it's like there's no point looking down at a piece of paper looking at what, or a shot list or something like that.
46:43Jawad MirSure.
46:43Matthew CheungLike, you have to see and be present with what's happening in front of you, with what the actors are doing with each other, what the actors are doing with the space, what the weather. You know, like, so you have to be pā¦ present, I think is the biggest word. So you canā¦
46:57Jawad MirWhat was,.. Sorry, go on.
46:59Matthew CheungYeah. So yeah, being present and just responding to what's in front of you, as opposed to what was written, likeā¦
47:04Jawad MirOn the thing. Yeah
47:04Matthew Cheung... Two months before or, you know.
47:08Jawad MirWhat was the most, in terms of craft services, I ask because you're on an island.
47:13Matthew CheungYeah
47:14Jawad Mir... What kind of fā¦ was it, like, North American food that you were givā¦ given, or was it also some Maui food or island, you know, just naturalā¦
47:21Matthew CheungA bit of both. Yeah, a bit of both. You know, like, craft services, the food was actually really great. It was actually really great. You know, yeah, like I said, like, in both Hawaii and New Zealand, they really have really great catering people, and craft service people, and, you know.
47:38Jawad MirWas there sā¦ was there something new that you had that you never had before?
47:44Matthew CheungLike, poi is pretty big. It's, like, made from taro, I believe. And, what else was there? What else would I love that was Hawaiian? Loco moco.
48:07Jawad MirWhat's that?
48:07Matthew CheungThat's really good. It's like a, it's like a hamburger patty almost, but it's, like, with rice.
48:12Jawad MirOh, I see, I see. Okay.
48:12Matthew CheungAnd you got egg on it. You know, it's, like, very heavy, but it's, like, quite tasty. Yeah, they had, like, these, like, pulled meats that were really great as well. I cā¦ yeah, I can't remember the name of them, but, yeah, no, there's some really great... Yeahā¦
48:28Jawad MirNice
48:28Matthew Cheung... Really great food.
48:30Jawad MirAnd what's, what's next for you, if that's something that you're able to talk about, down the road, or maybe you already haveā¦
48:37Matthew CheungSo Justin and I, who dirā¦ directed the first two, we did this film at the beginning of the year with no money. It was literally him... Like, he wanted to make a film with him and his daughter. His daughter's seven. So we shot that in LA with no money, no, like, barely any crew. There was maybe, like... Sometimes it would be, like, four of us. Someā¦ the most I think we had was, like, six of us.
49:08Jawad MirDocumentary or narrative fiction?
49:10Matthew CheungIt's a narrative. Yeah, so that's something that Justin and I, we did, you know, just, like, you know, he wanted to make it with him and his daughter, and, you know, it's a beautiful film, beautiful script. But yeah, that's like the complete opposite in size of what this was.
49:26Jawad MirAnd is that finished production?
49:28Matthew CheungSo we shot half of it this year, and the second half we're gonna shoot in four years when his daughter's 11.
49:37Jawad MirAh.
49:38Matthew CheungYeah, so it's like a father-daughter story. So yeah, we shot half of it now in, like, two months, and then, yeah, in four years' time we'll go back and we'll do it again.
49:50Jawad MirIt's kinda like Boā¦ What was it a film Boys? A Boy's Life?
49:52Matthew CheungYeah. Yeah, Boyhood. Yeah.
49:54Jawad MirYeah.
49:54Matthew CheungI mean, that was over 12 years.
49:55Jawad MirBoyhood, yeah.
49:55Matthew CheungBut yeah.
49:56Jawad MirYeah.
49:57Matthew CheungYeah.
49:57Jawad MirYeah. Amazing.
49:58Matthew CheungSo yeah, we did something like that. It was, like, completely different in shape, of war, in scale and size, but still the ambition was there. And so it was good to go back to, like, real basics, like, soā¦ Super small.
50:09Jawad MirYou know what, one of the things that I, in making films that I make, and then I talk to peopleā¦ ... You know, on the podcast, and obviously I see big movies and stuff, you know, growing up, you know, maybe now too, but maybe not that much, I always find, you know, when you were telling me, like, when the volcano erupted and you guys had to, like, test the air for a day, as safe as that isā¦
50:37Matthew CheungYeah
50:38Jawad Mir... And as it should beā¦
50:38Matthew CheungYeah. Yeah
50:39Jawad Mir... You know, on independent film it's like, "Okay, who cares? Let's just go." Like, you know, like, thatā¦
50:43Matthew CheungThat's right. That's right
50:43Jawad Mir... That sense of, that sense of freedomā¦
50:46Matthew CheungYeah. Yeah, that's right
50:46Jawad Mir... Even if, even if there's the financial holdback on itā¦
50:50Matthew CheungYeah
50:51Jawad Mir... It's far more cooler than I think than just being tied down toā¦
50:54Matthew CheungOh, totally
50:55Jawad Mir... All these ugly rules, corporate rules and...
50:58Matthew CheungTotally. And, you know, like, to be honest, like, we had that mentality shooting this thing. Like, you know, like Justin and I, we're from, you know, super indie films. Same with, same with Jason and Brian. Like, they were making films on their own, you know, by themselves, you know? Like, so we still kept that spirit. And, you know, there are times where I look at Justin and we're, like, this huge set, and, you know, all these people, but we're still doing it, like, handheld. We're still doing it, you know? Like, and same with, like, the battle scene. Once again, like, it's on a lava field and we scouted it. Everyone was like, "Look, this is stunning, but it's way too difficult to shoot here. Like, it's, it's... No one's done it on this scale. Like, it's just so, like, it's dangerous. It's like, you know?" But then Jason really wanted to shoot it on that, on Hawaiian land. He wanted to, you know, like... He was like, "No, we're shooting on this." And, you know, to be honest, production were very afraid because of insurance reasons and unions and all this kind of stuff.
52:04Jawad MirYeah.
52:04Matthew CheungAnd Jason was like, "No, I wanna shoot it on this. Like, let's... You know, this is my plan." And when you hear the plan you're like, "Oh, maybe it is achievable." And, you know, like... And, you know, like, that battle scene does have that really kinda, like, indie kinda spirit to it. Yeah, and youā¦
52:26Jawad MirAnd I, and Iā¦
52:26Matthew CheungIt does
52:26Jawad Mir... And I think that's, I think that's, sort of what you just said sums it up, is that it is so important, and I'm not trying to label things in a way that peā¦ You know, there are films out there, and I'm not gonna put any names, that are just completely over the top, right?
52:44Matthew CheungSure.
52:44Jawad MirAnd I think, I feel, I'm not... I don't know this for a factā¦
52:48Matthew CheungYeah
52:48Jawad Mir... This is just my assessment, that sense of, you know, peā¦ a lot of sometimes directors of studios trying to go overboard just for the spectacleā¦
52:56Matthew CheungYep
52:56Jawad Mir... And because they got the opportunity to spend the money and to make it look grand.
53:00Matthew CheungOh.
53:00Jawad MirBut that sense of groundednessā¦
53:02Matthew CheungYes. Yeah
53:03Jawad Mir... I think, which is something that I see in this first episode, very much so, and you kind ofā¦
53:08Matthew CheungI'm very pleased
53:09Jawad Mir... Attested to that, like how you guys have that indie background. And I think that is very important, which is why a lot of studios now are kind of... I mean, they're probably doing it more for the financial reasons. You get, like, an independent filmmaker toā¦
53:20Matthew CheungSure
53:20Jawad Mir... Who's maā¦ who may cost less.
53:24Matthew CheungSure. Yeah.
53:24Jawad MirBut that brings out some great films. Like, you know, for exā¦ I'm just gonna say one of those things. Sam Mendes, I mean, he'sā¦
53:29Matthew CheungYeah
53:29Jawad Mir... A huge director now.
53:31Matthew CheungYeah. Yeah. Yeah.
53:32Jawad MirBut he directed American Beautyā¦
53:34Matthew CheungYeah. Incredible, yeah
53:35Jawad Mir... His first film. And then the stuā¦ I think that was the first time ever, I could be wrong, the studios started hiring directors who were not necessarilyā¦
53:45Matthew CheungCorrect
53:45Jawad Mir... Action-oriented or big directors.
53:48Matthew CheungYeah, yep. Yeah. Yeah. No, yeah, it is interesting. And, you know, like... Yeah, you know, like Justin, like I said, we did Blue Bayou and that iā¦ you know, like, that's a very indie film. It's very, you knowā¦
54:02Jawad MirI gotta check that out, actually.
54:04Matthew CheungAnd, you know, likeā¦
54:05Jawad MirI would say
54:05Matthew Cheung... Yeah, we did quite a lot on that film with not a lot of money either, you know? Like, that was, like, maybe, like, a fā¦ $5 million film, you know? But we shot on 16 mil and, you know, there's quite a, we're quite ambitious with that. So, you know, we started on that, and obviously that was extremely difficult for us to accomplish. But having gone through that experience and knowing what that takes for us, you know, that was another big, like, that was another draw was, like, to have something of this scale and the resources, but also for it to mean something to people, And, you know, like it was interesting, like one of the producers earlier on when I was having my meeting to do this, they were like, "Oh, you haven't done anything of this size." And he's not wrong. You know? Like, he's not wrong. Like, this is my first TV show. Before this, it was like, before the film, you know, like of course I'd worked with Justin, so that was obviously, that made sense.
55:11Matthew CheungBut you know, he was like, "Can you handle something this size?" And I'm like, "Well, it's not my job to build the world. You know, like that's, like you have a lot of people to do that, like the production designer, you know. Like, it's, it's not my job to build the sā¦ the scale of it. It is, it is my job to like bring the camera back or, you know, like I'll move the camera and capture within the frame of however big it is. But that's just pulling the camera back. And of course, there's maybe bigger spaces to light, but, you know, we have like the personnel to help me with that, like the gaffers and, you know, they, you know, like we tell them like, "Hey, this is what we're thinking. This is, you know, the feeling that we want. This is the space that, you know, like I wanna be able to control from daylight." You know, like, and then they're the ones who kinda like organize and set it up, and obviously they have a lot of people to help, you know.
56:08Jawad MirYeah.
56:09Matthew CheungLikeā¦
56:10Jawad MirYeah. I meanā¦
56:10Matthew CheungSoā¦
56:10Jawad Mir... You kā¦ you kinda reminded me of that line from The Matrix, you know?
56:14Matthew CheungOh, yeah?
56:15Jawad MirWhen Trinity says, "Nobody's ever done that before," and Neo says, "That's why it's gonna work." You should've said that to the producer.
56:21Matthew CheungYeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, you know... And look, to be honest, no one knows whether doing is right or wrong in film. Like, you know, you don't. Like, it's just like whatever your instincts kinda go towards, you know. Yeah, for us, like we wanted to have it feel grounded and real. You know, like you see a lot of these TV shows that are about historical epics and are, you know, they all kind of can feel the same sometimes, you know. Like, and obviously, you know, we wanted to have our own stamp on certain things. And we were inspired by, you know, some great filmmakers before, like before us. You know, like Terrence Malick or Tarkovsky or, you know, Michael Mann and, you know, likeā¦
57:12Jawad MirActuallyā¦ ... I'm glad you mentioned Michael Mann. There's a lot of Michael Mann in that Last of the Mohicans, andā¦
57:17Matthew CheungYeah, of course
57:18Jawad Mir... You know. Right?
57:18Matthew CheungYeah.
57:19Jawad MirYeah.
57:19Matthew CheungYeah, Michael Mann's like, you know, like one of my favorites, you know. Like, yeah. So it was great to be able to test ourselves and see if we can wā¦ work within this like scale, you know. And of course, you know, we had ambitions to like take it beyond what was, you know, expected, I guess. You know, like the worst thing for us is if people watch it and go, "Oh, that was like underwhelming." You know, like we would probablyā¦
57:54Jawad MirYeah
57:54Matthew Cheung... Be like that. So yeah, so we definitely learned a lot on that. And then like I said, like we just did a film with no money. It was back to like basics, you know.
58:03Jawad MirYeah.
58:03Matthew CheungRemind ourselves like, huh?
58:07Jawad MirAnd it also keeps you grounded in the, in, from a psychological standpoint that you don'tā¦
58:11Matthew CheungYeah
58:11Jawad Mir... Sometimes people kinda get, it gets to their head. And I thinkā¦
58:15Matthew CheungYeah
58:16Jawad Mir... We were allā¦
58:17Matthew CheungYeah
58:17Jawad Mir... Capable of doing that.
58:19Matthew CheungThat's right. That's right, yeah.
58:21Jawad MirYeah.
58:21Matthew CheungYeah.
58:21Jawad MirIt's tough, man. No, it's beenā¦
58:23Matthew CheungYeah
58:24Jawad Mir... It's a, it's a fabulous series based on the episode one that I've seen. It's got me interested. I won't lie, when I saw the trailer I wasn't too keen on it.
58:35Matthew CheungYeah. Okay.
58:36Jawad MirBut you know, it's, it's got me on. So I'm, I'm watchingā¦
58:41Matthew CheungNice
58:41Jawad Mir... Another series, another series which is not really about the same time period, but a historical piece. It's about a year old. You know the, Yellowstone spinoff 1923?
58:51Matthew CheungOh, yeah. I've, I've, I'veā¦
58:52Jawad MirYeah
58:53Matthew Cheung... Heard of ads for it myself.
58:54Jawad MirWhich I will highly recommend, by the way.
58:56Matthew CheungOh, okay. Great.
58:57Jawad MirHighly recommend. So it's good to watch these things, not just from a historical standpoint, but just from entertainment, but also likeā¦
59:05Matthew CheungSure
59:05Jawad Mir... Connecting with these characters that obviouslyā¦
59:08Matthew CheungYep
59:08Jawad Mir... If you like the film or the series, you like it because of the characters and their relationshipsā¦
59:14Matthew CheungOf course
59:14Jawad Mir... With each other. Soā¦
59:15Matthew CheungOf course, yeah
59:15Jawad Mir... Great stuff. Looking forward to the rest of the episodes, and let's talk about this again. I think the last episode airs on September 19th.
59:23Matthew CheungYeah. Yeah.
59:25Jawad MirSo maybe we can talk about it on, aroundā¦
59:28Matthew CheungYeah
59:28Jawad Mir... On that day, on that, around the same time.
59:31Matthew CheungYeah. That'd be cool. Yeah.
59:34Jawad MirAwesome
59:34Matthew Cheung... Yeah. Hope you enjoy the rest of the series. Hope we still, you still watch it and you like it.
59:40Jawad MirI will. I will. I just, I think I'm probably gonna wait for a couple of more episodes to come out.
59:46Matthew CheungSure.
59:47Jawad MirWatch three or four in a go and then the lastā¦
59:48Matthew CheungOh, yeah. Cool
59:49Jawad Mir... Four or five in a go, yeah. Yeah.
59:51Matthew CheungAll right, sweet.
59:52Jawad MirCool, man. Thanks for your time, buddy. And how do I pronounce your last name?
59:56Matthew CheungThank you, man. Chueng.
59:57Jawad MirChueng.
59:58Matthew CheungYeah.
59:58Jawad MirJust wanna make sure I pronounce it right when I do the introduction. Great, man. Thank you so much for your time.
1:00:02Matthew CheungThank you, man. Really appreciate youā¦
1:00:04Jawad MirPleasure talking to you
1:00:05Matthew Cheung... Talking to me. Yeah. Thank you. Take care.
1:00:06Jawad MirTake care.