DP Don Burgess on, 'The Thursday Murder Club', Netflix

0:00Don BurgessIt's a great foreign film, and it's about, you know, basically stealing Jewish kids and baptizing them. But I could see that the way that people were lit, they really were chiseled out in the environment that they were in. It was gonna be a bright, kind of white, piece of clothing that she'd be wearing, and so it was all about kind of working backwards from there and getting the contrast. Well, first off, I'd certainly like to retire at that place. Yeah, it's like, it's like setting up, you know, the most beautiful countryside of England and this amazing home and so you see why all those people wanna be there. I mean, if you're gonna retire, that's the place to go. I was literally, I was in London visiting my son when it happened. My daughters called. They were in a panic. They had kids they had to find. You have this responsibility. Been dad a long time. You've been, you know, a husband a long time. For me, it was very important.

0:58Jawad MirWelcome back, everyone, to another episode of Kingdom of Dreams Podcast, The Making of Stories. I'm your host, Jawad Mir. Today, my guest is cinematographer Don Burgess, who I've had the pleasure of having on this podcast over half a dozen times. He's been here to talk about Cast Away, What Lies Beneath, Contact, Forrest Gump, 42, and today he's here to talk about Netflix hit murder mystery comedy, The Thursday Murder Club, starring Helen Mirren, Pierce Brosnan, and Ben Kingsley. I saw the film last weekend and spoke to Don right after that, and truly enjoyed the film, including the cinematography, the very naturalistic colors that reminded me of Technicolor and also the films from the '90s and the '80s. And we talked about the film, the lighting, the sequences, as well as the upcoming, Robert Zemeckis film that he's working on with, starring Jennifer Lopez, a potential sequel to Thursday Murder Club, and also how the LA fires affected him personally. So without further ado, here's my conversation with cinematographer Don Burgess. Well, obviously we're here to talk about Thursday Murder Club, but you're also working on Robert Zemeckis' next film.

1:51Jawad MirSo that's really exciting to hear, and good to h… good to know that things are moving along.

1:56Don BurgessYes. Yeah, no, we're, we are in Paris now to start shooting the movie. But most of it's being shot in New Jersey, which is the next, you know, tax incentive state to aggressively go after the movie business. And so, but Bob wanted to start the movie here, just for the t… the season, the time of year. It'd be good to do it now than instead of at the end of the schedule, which would be after Thanksgiving, before we'd have a chance to come back. So, you know, it's, challenging to start here in Paris. But what we've laid out, I think, is gonna be terrific, so looking forward to getting started.

2:39Jawad MirThat's wonderful. So you guys shot in New Jersey, and now you're shooting in Paris, and you're going back to New Jersey after that? Or that's pretty much a wrap?

2:45Don BurgessRight. So we had, we've just prepped New Jersey. So we…

2:48Jawad MirOh, you prepped. Okay.

2:50Don BurgessRight. So we came here and scouted, six weeks ago, to, and, you know, to organize this, and then they've had all this time to get it, kinda get it ready. And then we've come back for, two weeks of shooting. Then we go back to New Jersey and begin our shoot there.

3:06Jawad MirWonderful. Well, I'm excited about that. Are you willing... I... Is that, is it public about this film, the Robert Zemeckis next film? Is a public announcement been made? Or

3:16Don BurgessI imagine it has.

3:18Jawad MirIt…

3:18Don BurgessIt's, with Jennifer Lopez.

3:21Jawad MirOh, right. Yes. I did read about that, yes. Yes.

3:24Don BurgessGladys Parish. Right.

3:26Jawad MirFantastic. Well, I, you know, just literally finished watching Thursday Murder Club. When I saw the trailer, it seemed intriguing. Then I started reading about it, just hearing their excerpts. Wasn't really a good reaction from audiences. At least the reviews are pretty decent, you know, 76%. And then I just finished watching it, and I really enjoyed it. I wasn't expecting it to be, you know, with couple of little surprises and twists. Even when you think the film is sort of over, it's really not. And the cinematography, which y… you obviously were behind, you know, just overall, the colors kind of felt like Technicolor, which I really enjoy and I cherish because I'm sick and tired of the monotone colors. I just can't stand them. And obviously the framework and everything that you used in terms of lighting was really phenomenal. So just wanna put that out there first.

4:20Don BurgessOh, well, thank you. Y… yes, you know, I was fortunate to go to a, the, a premiere in New York City that they had, just two weeks ago.

4:28Jawad MirYeah.

4:29Don BurgessAnd then my son was in London, doing the DI for his latest movie, and so he got to see the London premiere of…

4:38Jawad MirAll right

4:39Don Burgess... Thursday Murder Club. So it was like an old-fashioned premiere in both places with the stars were there, and Chris Columbus was there. So, and an audience that thoroughly enjoyed the movie. They had a great time. And in New York City, believe it or not, halfway through the movie, the fire alarm went off in the theater.

4:57Jawad MirOh, no.

4:57Don BurgessIt's true. Yeah. So we were at the Paris Theater, right there by The Plaza, wonderful theater. And everybody stayed, you know, which was great. And, you know, the movie played wonderful, you know? I mean, it really was fun to see it in an audience, in a theater, up on the big screen, which was really a lot of fun.

5:24Jawad MirYeah. And, you know, there was a lot of Chris Columbus, '80s and '90s feel to it, like the… ... The humor, the characters, and the innocence. It was, it was all there. Like, I could pick up on it very easily, which was, which was cool to see because you don't really see those kind of films that often anymore.

5:42Don BurgessNo, I mean, you used to, you know, when studios were releasing movies in movie theaters, they always had, you know, X amount of comedies and, you know, and then the dramas and the horror films and the superhero. So you had this o… So you could always find a movie to see any weekend that had one of those types of films.

5:58Jawad MirYeah.

5:58Don BurgessAnd it's fun to see that movie, especially with an audience of a couple hundred people, probably 250 or something like that, in that theater. Enjoying the movie together, you know, laughing together, you know. And, you could feel the energy in the room. It was just fun to be a part of it. And I think that's what was great about movies and why we all grew up falling in love with movies, was that experience. And I think there's, there's so much of the younger audience that I don't think gets to do that. And even us, the older audience, that used to, when they used to make a lot more mature movies, it released in theaters. So it's, it's nice to see that. I hope one day it comes back.

6:40Jawad MirYeah, I hope so too. I just saw Jaws over the weekend for the first time in the movie theater, because obviously it was, it came out after, before I was born, and it was such a great experience. I mean, it wasn't packed, but it still was, you know, a lot of people there. And I knew ex… exactly, I've seen that movie, like, God knows how many times, but still…

6:58Don BurgessRight

6:58Jawad Mir... Being able to enjoy that on the big screen, the IMAX sound and screen, it was phenomenal.

7:04Don BurgessOh, phenomenal.

7:05Jawad MirYeah.

7:05Don BurgessYeah.

7:06Jawad MirSo tell me about Thursday Murder Club. What was your process of getting prepared, for this film? Obviously, you know, it had several locations, but not too extravagantly a lot, like, just limited locations, but still you had to work with production design and all that. Just ta… talk to me about the process of how it all began.

7:28Don BurgessWell, you know, Chris had been talking about doing the movie for quite a long time, but it took him a long time to get the pieces together w… 'cause he just wouldn't move forward without that cast. And so getting the script right and getting that cast and shooting in England, and, he was, just, you know, to him, it just had to be done there with those people. So hats off to Chris for, sticking to his guns and, you know, getting all those pieces together to make the film. And so, you know, a lot of those sets are, you know, are, were built on, at the lot at, in London, which, was great to be involved with a film where you could afford to build those sets. That, like the old days, you know. I mean, that was, that was normal, you know, to have that kind of opportunity to build those sets. The house itself, of course, was a very famous Englefield house, and we shot some of the rooms downstairs in the Englefield house.

8:31Don BurgessBut the mur… the Murder Club room was a, was a set build on location, that particular set, 'cause of all the glass windows and tying it into the, to the real house. So that was great. Great production designer, wonderful guy. Very collaborative. And, you know, the sets that he built on stage were gorgeous. You know, I mean, and it was a, an absolute pleasure to light them, 'cause there was just so much texture and so much detail, and really felt like you were in the environment. And you know, I'm old enough to know how to light a, you know, painted backing. You know, nowadays everybody, all they know how to do is put a blue screen out there. But, you know, those are all painted backings and, so that was fun. You know, so it was like a lot of the old traditional kind of filmmaking, you know, was brought alive. And, you know, Chris just had a great time.

9:34Don BurgessI mean, he really, I mean, and when the director's having a great time, it's hard not for everybody else to have a good time making the movie also. The cast was absolutely wonderful to work with. And, you know, Chris turned to me about halfway through. He goes, "I'm never making another blue screen movie ever again. I love this. I'm having a great time with these actors, making this movie in real sets." You know? And it is, it's true. It's, it really is a wonderful thing.

10:00Jawad MirIt is, and they get to work in the real environments, right? And I mean, even though it's such a phenomenal c… cast, still, you know, you have to be in those spaces.

10:09Don BurgessRight.

10:09Jawad MirI love the opening sequence, the lighting, the street, and, you know, obviously it was black and white, which I'm assuming you guys did in post. What was, what was creating that... It was a short sequence, but still, you could see it was a lot of lighting involved and a lot of, you know…

10:27Don BurgessRight

10:27Jawad Mir... Details. What was the process of setting that up and getting that going? How did you light that up and what your method was?

10:35Don BurgessWell, Chris had the idea of doing it in black and white from the beginning, so that it gave me an opportunity to bring out some film cameras and shoot real black and white negative.

10:44Jawad MirOh, okay.

10:46Don BurgessSo ultimately, it's, that's not what you're seeing in the, in the movie, but I did test it. I tested, you know, black and white negative versus color negative versus a digital camera. And, truly, the black and white film felt the best. And so I did, you know, three or four different versions for Chris of what it would look like. And then before we shot the scene, I think there was a lot of pressure. Well, I know there was a lot of pressure from the studio. 'Cause just the fact that I brought out film cameras and we purchased some Kodak black and white film and had developed, they, the studio kind of freaked out. Like, "Wait, whoa. What's going on here? You're not shooting this movie in black and white, are you, Chris?" And so they were, they were, everybody was nervous about starting the film off that way, right? 'Cause it, to them, people will click off your movie in a matter of seconds if they've, you know, it's, it's…

11:43Jawad MirYeah

11:44Don Burgess... You know. There's been a lot of successful black and white shows recently, so I think they were f… they were talked out of their position there. So, but then Chris said, "You know, I think, I think I want it, you know, I don't want it purely color, but I don't want it purely black and white. You know, can you, can I fool around with that?" And I'm, "Sure." So ultimately, I ended up shooting, you know, digitally. So it gave him the flexibility to do a colorized version of the scene. And so, at the end of the day, I did both versions for him, a black and white version and a one that had color and tone to it. And he ended up using the black and white version. Which I think turned out great. I'm very happy with it, you know? You know, it's always fun to have the ability to test all these different ways of making it look. And then ultimately, you know, for Chris, it gave him the flexibility to kind of, you know, make sure that he was, at the end of the day, ready to commit to the black and white, and I'm glad he did 'cause I think it works really well.

12:57Jawad MirYeah. And I won't lie, like when it started off, because I'd seen the trailers being completely like, you know, full of colors and depth.

13:04Don BurgessOh, yeah. Right.

13:04Jawad MirIt kind of threw me off for a second, but I really loved the film noir kind of a touch to it that it had.

13:10Don BurgessRight.

13:11Jawad MirAnd then it, the stark in contrast from the opening to the rest of the film, I mean, it's, it's amazing, right?

13:16Don BurgessRight.

13:17Jawad MirSo lighting that up, like, the, I know there was, there was a little bridge arc and there was lighting in the back. I'm, I'm, guessing that was all sound stage, and everything. If not, please correct me. And how did you light that up in terms of the woman falling out the window and revealing that because in the beginning of the film and…

13:33Don BurgessRight

13:33Jawad Mir... And all, the whole sequence, how it played out?

13:37Don BurgessRight. So that was a set built on the back lot.

13:40Jawad MirOkay.

13:40Don BurgessSo we shot, we shot it at night. It was a night exterior.

13:43Jawad MirOkay.

13:44Don BurgessRight? And so the street, was built back, you know, maybe 50, 60 feet

13:51Jawad MirOkay

13:51Don Burgess... And then the rest was a set extension. And so, you know, it's, it's interesting 'cause we struggled with trying to find a real location that would work for the time period, time period and the idea of what it needed to be, and it's something that we could get permitted and do when we wanted to do it. So ultimately, they built the set, you know, f… for that on the, on the back lot, you know, at Shepperton Studios. And so that gave us, it certainly gave me a m… a much better opportunity to light it, you know, how I wanted to light it. And, you know, it's fun to, like you say, the film noir approach to it, I think was... You know, for a cinematographer, that's always a lot of fun to do, you know? And, you know, the stunt involved of the girl coming out the window I think works very well.

14:54Don BurgessThey did a great job in selling that idea. And, of course it was right at the end of the movie, so it was, the coldest night we had on the movie, as it always is when you do night work. And, but ultimately I think it worked out exactly how Chris had always talked about it, and then ultimately storyboarded that particular sequence. So the, all the pieces I think fit in, you know, opening the story and of course making the transition from that to the, storyboard that's, that the Thursday Murder Club puts together. You know, making that transition into the movie I think works really well.

15:42Jawad MirSo you talked about that you did some tests on the, film cameras. And… ... How clo… W… were any of them were close to what the final, opening sequence looks like? And also if you, 'cause to my knowledge, I don't think you have done anything like black and white in any of your work. Correct me if I'm wrong. Or at least film noir.

16:05Don BurgessOh, I think, I think the closest thing I've, I've gotten to do would be, would be

16:11Jawad MirForrest Gump.

16:12Don BurgessWell, no. Well, yeah, I did do act… some actual black and white there. You're right.

16:15Jawad MirYeah.

16:16Don BurgessSome 16 millimeter actually. Some 16 millimeter black and whites to match the documentary footage, that was shot at the time. George, the George Wallace sequence when Gump's going to college. But the Book of Eli would probably be the closest thing I've done to black and white.

16:38Don BurgessA saturated movie, that was actual shot digitally. And that was s… that was a look that we developed in pre-production, you know, for the film, before we got started. So but no actual, you know, besides moments in films, have I, you know, had the opportunity to shoot a black and white movie. Maybe one day.

17:03Jawad MirSo to me, so to me that, not because of, black and white, because there was no black and white in the film Dick Tracy, which I'm sure you've seen, Warren Beatty one. Ig… because that was a lot of like, you know, kinda had a film noir kind of a feel, but it wasn't really black and white per se.

17:19Don BurgessRight.

17:19Jawad MirSo that opening literally took me to Dick Tracy like in terms of lighting and all that.

17:24Don BurgessOh.

17:24Jawad MirSo it reminded me of that. And that's why I was asking if you drew any inspirations or you s… checked any of the older films or any of the genre films to kinda get that or you just kinda went in...

17:38Don BurgessYou know, when I shot the... Well, I would say I was more film noir, you know, from my background, you know, in the film school days where we got to watch all those movies. I mean, that stuff always is just in your brain, you know? So it probably came from that, I imagine.

17:52Don BurgessIn my tests, you know, I, you know, I had a stand-in that was in a white, you know, they... Basically what they were, she was gonna wear in that sequence. The stunt girl wore in the sequence than the girl that I guess, if we had a double and a stunt double, I can't remember how that worked, but maybe just a stunt girl. I don't recall. But anyway, the point is I knew I was g… it was gonna be a bright, kind of white... Piece of clothing that she'd be wearing. And so it was all about kind of working backwards from there and getting the contrast and that we wanted to kind of set the look to it. So that's, you know, it's like really pushing the, whether it was the film or the digital camera to kind of extremes, you know, to get that look.

18:40Jawad MirYeah

18:40Don Burgess... And so it was kind of working from the image of her on the ground backwards, I guess, and then making the s… making the lighting of the set that leads into it, give it that feeling and the stark contrast at the end.

18:56Jawad MirNice. What was, you know, you have such an amazing cast, Sir Ben Kingsley, Helen Mirren, Pierce Brosnan, and, Jonathan Pryce.

19:06Don BurgessRight

19:06Jawad Mir... Any interesting, fun stories, fun moment from a scene or a set or that you kind of stands out with, you know, such a phenomenal cast, being in right in front of your presence that you wanna sort of speak to?

19:25Don BurgessWell, you know, I, it was, it was great to work with, you know, the quality of actor, that they are all at that level. They're all brilliant. They're all amazing at what they do, and they're all just very, you know, nice people, professional people, always very prepared. They work together so well. There's a lot of give and take in acting, I think, where they... And they all just kind of fit into these parts. So it was a real pleasure to kind of sit and watch them work. And one day, actually it was the sequence that Ben Kingsley gives the eulogy, you know, in the graveyard at the end.

20:16Don BurgessAnd I'd read the scene and I thought it was okay, you know? And then on the day when we actually did it, watching his performance, it was so interesting because then all of a sudden it all made sense. Like, I understood what the scene was about with him reading those lines. And I remember after, you know, we finished the scene, and, I went up to him, I said, "My God, that was magnificent. You know, thank you so much. Now I understand what this scene is about," you know? And, he just gave me a little smile. And at the time I didn't know it, but Chris, you know, got up and spoke at the premiere, and he brought up that scene and he said, you know, Ben wrote that scene.

21:14Jawad MirOh, wow.

21:15Don BurgessSo there was a version of it that was in the script, and then there was a version that he actually wrote, which he performed in the movie. And it is, it's, it's really wonderful. It's a beautiful scene. So that, you know, that's what those people are all about, you know? They really love what they do, they're great at it, they're inspiring. And, you know, you know, being the, all the age that they are, to be s… so relevant in, you know, filmmaking and in their craft, I think it's really quite special.

21:53Jawad MirOne thing I'll say about Sir Ben Kingsley is that, you know, you've s… I've obviously seen him, and I'm sure you have, like, as Gandhi, as, Is… Is… in Schindler's List, the character he's played, I don't wanna mispronounce it. Sexy Beast.

22:06Jawad MirSo many different characters, right?

22:07Don BurgessRight.

22:08Jawad MirI… i… in this film, I'm not trying to say that he's the highest caliber of the actor in the film, but, you know, he is Sir Ben Kingsley. He didn't seem... He seemed like the most timid actor because of his character. Like, he was so... I could not tell it was Ben Kingsley. That's how great he was.

22:26Don BurgessIt was…

22:26Jawad Mir'Cause it was, he played his character so brilliantly.

22:28Don BurgessYes. Yeah. I mean, and I mean, if you look at all of them, they all have…

22:36Jawad MirYeah

22:36Don Burgess... A bit of chameleon at where they can go places. And then for instance, if you see MobLand, which they did after we shot this, with Pierce Brosnan and Helen Mirren, who play husband and wife…

22:48Jawad MirYeah

22:48Don Burgess... That are these mob bosses, right? And they're just the most horrible people in the world in that show. And in this, they're just the most lovable people in the world, and so kind. You know what I mean? It's, it's so great to see them and the range that they have and what they, how they can portray characters and where they go. And it, and 'cause when you talk to them and you meet them, they're just very nice people, just…

23:11Jawad MirYeah

23:12Don Burgess... Happy to be showing up to work and doing their job, you know? It's great.

23:16Jawad MirI met Helen Mirren at TIFF, about maybe 10 years ago. It was a part of a set of interviews we were doing. And she just came up to me and just started talking to me, like, no big deal. And, you know, just again, that goes to show about who she is. And I haven't seen MobLand, but I just had start, finished watching 1923, which is the Yellowstone…

23:37Don BurgessRight

23:37Jawad Mir... Spinup.

23:38Don BurgessYeah.

23:38Jawad MirShe's so different… ... And phenomenal in it. Like, she's the one…

23:41Don BurgessRight

23:41Jawad Mir... Who carries the entire series.

23:44Don BurgessYes.

23:44Jawad MirAnd ha… have you seen 1923?

23:47Don BurgessRight. Oh, yeah.

23:48Jawad MirYeah.

23:48Don BurgessOh, yeah.

23:48Jawad MirSo it's such an amazing series.

23:51Don BurgessYeah

23:51Jawad Mir... Light… lighting up any of the scenes, that you did that for your favorite. I know it's hard to distinguish all the work that you do in one film, but something that you had fun lighting up, a scene/challenge maybe, but mostly fun that you really enjoyed.

24:11Don BurgessWell, you know, Chris had me watch this movie, in England when we were over there. He said, "Hey, go see this movie. I really like the way the people are lit in this movie." And this movie is one of the, you know, it's a very dark story. And it's, it's, you know, I can't remember exactly the name of the movie, but it was g… it's a great foreign film, and it's about, you know, this, these, Catholic, you know, basically stealing Jewish kids and then baptizing them. That's what the movie's about, and it's very dark. But I could see that the way that people were lit, they really were chiseled out in the environment that they were in. And it, and it was, it was really, man, very well done. And so here I am, you know, with this comedy script, in essence, you know, this lighthearted comedy, with some heart. And I, and so I looked at that and I just had to laugh. I said, "You know, only Chris Columbus could have me watch this particular movie."

25:12Don BurgessAnd then, you know, and then, you know, that's our starting point. But he, you know, he, that's Chris. I mean, he is, a great to work with 'cause he's a writer-director, and he's done so much, you know, and he really loves what he does. And you can joke with him a lot, you know? And so ultimately, you know, that was the basis for the lighting design of the show. So if you see it a lot, I mean, you see it in the, you know, like in Helen Mirren's apartment, you know? I mean, it's, it's... We, you know, we place her husband, you know, by the window playing chess, you know? And so it allows me to give this nice strong sidekey scenario where we can let the room fall off a lot, and the characters play very strongly, you know, in tho… those environments. So it allowed me to, I think, in essence, it was never the chance I was gonna light it like a comedy.

26:16Don BurgessI guess I'll just put it that way. You know, you're, you're lighting it, and you believe, you know, in the story that you're telling, and that the humor comes from, you know, life in general, the irony of life in general, and who these people are and how they all come together and how it all plays. So it's never played s… you know, slapstick-y, I guess is the way I would rephrase it. I would always say that they were always playing true to themselves, you know? Like Ben Kingsley and the way that he played his character, right? Yet it comes across very humorous at times, yet he's playing, you know, dead straight, right? And they all, they all are, I believe, and yet it's all, the humor is all there, you know? It's, it's great. So as far as lighting goes, it was, it was, really enjoyable to kind of give it a proper look, I should say. That's what the English would say. "It's a very proper look, Don." I say, "Oh, okay. I guess that's good."

27:17Jawad MirSo in the interiors, were you using any, I mean, there was a lot of windows, a lot of daylight was coming in, right?

27:23Don BurgessRight.

27:23Jawad MirBut were you using any, other lighting at a distance or reflectors or anything like that to kinda just make things a little bit more lit up?

27:36Don BurgessSure. I mean, I, between the house itself, the real house, and the sets…

27:43Jawad MirYeah

27:44Don Burgess... On stage, I always had, you know, some very big outside I'd be using 18 K's, and on the stage there'd be 20 K's. Always big lights and create as bigger, as bigger sources as I could in the situation. And balance at the house with the outside, which you see out the windows. So y… you're kinda finding that level of making it feel, I believe, realistic, yet I'm still dramatically lighting the actors to make 'em look, strong in the frame and feel that they're moving in a space that's naturally lit.

28:25Jawad MirRight.

28:25Don BurgessYeah. There's a lot of lights out there and a lot of ca… lighting guys.

28:27Jawad MirNo, I figured. I just, I just have to ask. It's just my habit to ask.

28:31Don BurgessYeah.

28:31Jawad MirI figured as much, but.

28:33Don BurgessYeah. But it, but, you know, it's, there's, there's, you know, a wonderful gaffer and key grip and all, you know, a lot of people that are involved in the team. The camera operator's been with me a long time. He's moved up to be a cameraman now. He's wonderful. And the focus puller's been with me on probably five or six films in London. And so, you know, y… I've been able to put together just a wonderful team of people, you know, to make that look, come alive in the movies. And it's great, you know? It's great. It's great working with people on both sides of the camera that are really good.

29:10Jawad MirYeah. I, you know, I, there's a lot of trend now, tend, trend, Only Murders in the Building, which is, like, a murder mystery, like a podcast.

29:19Don BurgessRight.

29:19Jawad MirAnd there's Knives Out.

29:20Don BurgessRight.

29:21Jawad MirI've seen the first season of Only Murders in the Building. I've seen the first Knives Out. And one of the things I really like about this film, obviously the lighting, the characters, you know, but it's, it sets in the senior world, for the lack of better word. Like, it's the older people.

29:39Don BurgessRight.

29:40Jawad MirBa… basically where you are in life right now in terms of your s… career has spanned several decades, how much re… relatability did you have with the characters, not just the main characters, but everywhere you were? Because, you know, at the end of the day, it's something that I feel that you can resonate with at a, at a personal level in some ways. But any particular things that kinda stood out for you besides cinematography about the characters, the story, and the environment of the people that are in it?

30:11Don BurgessWell, first off, I'd certainly like to retire at that place.

30:17Jawad MirWell, that's a good one. Okay, good.

30:20Don BurgessYeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's like, it's like setting up, you know, the most beautiful... Countryside of England in this amazing home. And so you see why all those people wanna be there. I mean, if you're gonna retire, that's the place to go. So that's, that's always fun. I mean, that's something we do in the movies, which is great. You know, we kinda create these places and experience that, you know, that you wanna go to. You know, it all makes you th… think about your life and where you are in your life, you know? And how many more years am I gonna be making movies, you know? I mean, I'm… I feel very fortunate. I'm, I still love what I do, you know, and I'm still getting the opportunity to make movies. And so when you s… you know, you see all these characters get together and they're kinda saying, "Hey, listen, as a group, you know, we're kinda smarter than the rest of the people in this movie." You know? "We're, we're figuring all this stuff out." And I, and, you know, I think that's, that's terrific.

31:20Don BurgessIt's like, you know, all of us wanna stay relevant for as long as we can, and those of us that have been lucky to have professional careers that even after this many years, we still look forward to the next one. It is very special, and I cherish it. So I think of anything else in this, doing this film, it, you know, enforces that idea of, enjoy this while we still have the opportunity to do this, to tell our stories. And I think that, I think it's, I think it's a positive thing for, people my age, people 10 years older than myself, and people 10 years and 20 years younger than myself to kind of, you know, see this and find something in it, you know, that you can connect with. And that's usually why the film will become successful, because it connects to a lot of different generations at the same time.

32:24Jawad MirYeah. It's interesting you did Here, which was… ... Not necessarily about old age, but that's where the film sort of pans out to, right, over time.

32:32Don BurgessRight. Right.

32:33Jawad MirAnd now, and now you have done this. Does it... A… again, I think I kind of asked the question already, and you kind of answered it, but does it sometime hit you that... You know, because sometimes when you're working so much and you love what you do, you forget about time passing by. And does it…

32:47Don BurgessYes

32:47Jawad Mir... Give you that reminder that, oh, shoot, you know, time has passed? I don't know if it sounds an awkward question, but I'm just, 'cause obviously I'm gonna get to that age, and I have from my t… past 20 years, right? Like…

33:00Don BurgessRight

33:00Jawad Mir... Time flies.

33:01Don BurgessYes. Yeah, it certainly does. And look, you know, you're catching me at a time in life where, you know, life is what happens to you while you're planning other things, which I think was John Lennon perhaps said that.

33:18Jawad MirYeah.

33:19Don BurgessBecause, you know, this tragedy happened in my life and my family's life recently with this fire. I mean, not only…

33:27Jawad MirOh

33:27Don Burgess... My house burned down, all my kids' house burned down.

33:30Jawad MirOh, I didn't know that part. Oh, sorry…

33:32Don BurgessYeah

33:32Jawad Mir... About that, man.

33:33Don BurgessYeah. So we're all going through this big transition in our life of hold on, you know? And so w… the way I've approached it and the way that I've tried to, you know, be a husband, be a father, is say, "Hey, listen," you know, "the best stories, you know, told have a third act twist that nobody anticipated." And so here we are, you know, you know, what this is gonna define us of how we react to this, what we do next. And fortunately, we're all in it together, because you do need to lean on people. You do have days where it's not going well. And fortunately for me, I have this wonderful family, and we're, you know, all going through this together. So it's, a lot about life has become, has been brought into a very sharp focus of where I've been, what I'm doing now, and what's next.

34:46Don BurgessSo I'm working for Bob Zemeckis, Chris Columbus, James Wan. I'm, I'm, I'm working for wonderful, you know, wonderful directors. And I think as long as I have the opportunity to work with those types of directors that I think are very special, that I'll, you know, I'll keep going as long as the phone…

35:08Jawad MirKeeps ringing

35:09Don Burgess... Keeps ringing, you know? And my health, knock on wood.

35:16Jawad MirYou talked about losing your home. Sometimes, you know, we watch news. We hear, whether it's in our country, in our town, another country, people losing homes, whether it's through war, through floods, whatever, right? Or somebody gets murdered, that somebody is close to you. So it just kinda gives you a wake-up call, right, about life. We just had…

35:39Don BurgessYep

35:39Jawad Mir... Somebody in our community last week, that I'd met several times. Literally just in the middle of the night, people came in, broke the window, shot the guy, and left, and shot the guy right in front of his kids. And I knew this guy, and it's the first time I've known somebody close, I wouldn't say that close, but close enough to, and it kinda wakes you up. When you lost your home, and this is a very dumb question, I apologize, w… do you, what was that feeling, you know, y… you have to lead your family, you have to be there for them, but of, at, you have to be strong, but at the same time, you're a human being, you know?

36:17Don BurgessYeah.

36:18Jawad MirThat, what... I can't even imagine losing a home. You know, I don't even know what I'm asking. Sorry, Don.

36:28Don BurgessWell, look, I mean… I mean, you know, I was literally, I was in London visiting my son when it happened. He was there shooting, a Mark Wahlberg movie. Mike… ... Talked about. And so we were there together, you know, waiting for the ax to fall, 'cause you did that, you know, my daughters called, they were in a panic. They had kids they had to find and make a run for it, literally, out of the houses. And grab the kids and go. They didn't have, they didn't have time to take anything. And my son was with me. His wife was there. Th… they, you know, he had, we were all very stressed out, trying to think about what happened. Now, fortunately for us, everybody's okay. Everybody got out. Everybody had places to go, family that take, you know, that would take them in. And so, for me, it was, I think, you know, you have this responsibility, you know, you've been dad a long time.

37:46Don BurgessYou've been, you know, a husband a long time, and I think that, for me, is very important, to be that person. And I had a, you know, I had a great mother and father, you know. And I had a father that had polio. You know, he lived in an i… he was in an iron lung for six months, and then carried on with his life and marriage and had more kids and so, and, so a lot of, I think, my strength comes from that, comes from what my parents lived through, 'cause they were Depression kids, and they went through World War II, and they went through a lot, you know? I mean, you know, my life has been, my life is, you know, I grew up in Pacific Palisades. It was a sleepy little town where you knew everybody that lived there, you know. And you went to the local schools.

38:48Don BurgessAnd so we had, I'll call it a Leave It to Beaver kind of upbringing, you know, of, you know, of family. And so you tap upon, I think, all of that when these things, when tragedies happen in your, in your own life, you know? And I think I've always had kind of a perspective on life of, putting a positive spin on what happens. My glass is just half full. It's never been half empty.

39:25Jawad MirYeah.

39:25Don BurgessAnd I was just born with that, and I had parents that reinforced that idea. And so I just know we're gonna land on our feet. I just know we're gonna figure it out, and I know, and I'm very proud of my kids and how they've behaved and what they're going through and, you know, taking charge of their own li… family situations. And we're all building back in the Palisades, and that's, you know, that's our goal. And, it's all, it's working. It's not easy, but it's all working. It's all coming together. And so, you know, I think as a, as a parent, I'm as proud as I've ever been of my kids, just in the way that they're handling this situation. So, you know, I'm not sure that's where you wanted to go with that question.

40:21Jawad MirYeah. No, I got the answer. I, it's, the thing is that, you know, it's, I'm so glad that you talked about the positive spin because I have s… I don't know how, what's the reason I'm like that too, is that once anything crappy happens, it's like, "Oh, at least this was not this bad." You know? Like, you just, and that somehow kind of puts down everything out of your sight. Does it hurt? Of course it does. Human being, right? But one of the things I truly admire about you, Don, and I've talked to you so many, so many times, I mean, aside from your work and everything, that you, and I hate to say it to your face, but you're a wonderful human being. And not just because of what you just told me. You're a really amazing human being, and I'm glad that you have a great family who you have the ability to talk to and who listen to you, and just that unity there. So that's really amazing. And I think a testament to your humility is that you have an amazing family. So I just wanna say that to you.

41:21Don BurgessThank you.

41:22Jawad MirWhat, we talked about Robert Zemeckis film Next a little bit. Anything else that's in development with, I don't need to know the title, but are there a couple of projects that are taking place simultaneously in pre, in development stage or that you're looking forward to?

41:40Don BurgessWell, y… you know, Chris wants to make another Thursday Murder Club.

41:46Jawad MirI was gonna ask you that. Good.

41:48Don BurgessThat's, you know, there are four books, right?

41:50Jawad MirYeah.

41:50Don BurgessAnd so, he had such a good time, and the, and the actors, they all wanna, they all wanna do it again. So that's a potential, you know, that's, I guess that's up to Netflix at this point. But I hear it's doing very well, so that's good. James Wan has been talking about doing Creature of the Black Lagoon, which would be fun. That would be great, you know…

42:08Jawad MirNice

42:09Don Burgess... That, you know, so I'm not sure what, you know, I know that he's been working on scripts and whatnot, so I'm not sure what the status is of that, but I hope that comes together. You know, Bob's always juggling things. You never know what's gonna pop up with him. He's always got several things in, you know, that he's got in development. We're just getting ready to d… you know, start this, shooting this one, so it's been, oh, it's, it's a lot of fun for me to sit with Bob in pre-production. Because he really works hard at it, really works hard at work… at detail, at detail of every character, every set piece, every piece of clothing they wear. Everything has to be character-driven, and he has to understand why you wanna do it this way. You know, you have to explain yourself. It's great, and so I love having that kind of dedication from a director that really, you know, has a cinematic mind.

43:12Don BurgessYou know, he loves talking shots. He loves talking ways to do it. And he loves figuring those things out and coming up with, "Hey, what do you, what do you think about this shot? If I start here like this, and then I come out of that, and we're cutting from this and thing, and then we end up over here, well, now we see this, and what do you..." "So that's great, Bob. I love that idea." "And if I put, if I put the mirror in the bedroom like this, when the g… character walks in, then we can see his face, and we can see her in the bathroom, and you're gonna have a connection there. What do you think?" I'm like, "I love it. Let's shoot." You know what I mean? I love that he has… he still has so much fun doing that, figuring out his movie, that it's, you know, it's just, it's an absolute pleasure, for me to be, you know, riding on that train, you know, and helping him make his movie, you know. It's, it's great.

44:07Jawad MirWell, 40th anniversary of Back to the Future is coming to IMAX in October, which…

44:11Don BurgessIs it really?

44:12Jawad MirYeah. I saw the trailer before Jaws. It's coming in October…

44:15Don BurgessOh

44:15Jawad Mir... On the IMAX, so you gotta go see that, of course.

44:19Don BurgessYeah. So I s… you know, I started with him on Back to the Future 2.

44:22Jawad MirTwo, yeah.

44:23Don BurgessYeah.

44:23Jawad MirWhich will come in 40…

44:24Don BurgessTwo second units

44:24Jawad Mir... I think in the five years, it will be 40 years from the first movie, yeah.

44:26Don BurgessYeah, two and three. Yeah, these 30-year reunions are starting to scare me.

44:31Jawad MirTime, right?

44:34Don BurgessYes.

44:34Jawad MirThat, I think that scares me more than anything else…

44:36Don BurgessYeah

44:37Jawad Mir... That, you know, it's been, what, 30-plus years to Jurassic Park and…

44:40Don BurgessYeah

44:41Jawad Mir... 20 years to Back to the Future.

44:42Don BurgessYeah. I, and, you know, you know, I mean, look, that group of filmmakers from that era, you know, 'cause Chris Columbus sold his first script to Steven Spielberg. And, you know, Bob Zemeckis, you know, basically the same thing. In 1942 was Bob Gale and Bob Zemeckis' script, you know. And…

45:04Jawad Mir'41, 1941.

45:06Don Burgess'41, yeah, sorry.

45:07Jawad MirYeah.

45:07Don BurgessAnd, '42 was the, like, Jackie Robinson movie.

45:11Jawad MirYeah.

45:12Don BurgessAnyway, yeah, so that's the, you know, it's just that group of filmmakers and what they were doing, and they all got started so young as directors. You know, Chris sold that script, you know, I think he was still at NYU Film School when he sold that script to Steven. And of course, Steven produced, you know, Thursday Murder Club, so to have... You know, I got a great picture of the three of us standing there together. It's pretty great.

45:34Jawad MirOh, nice. Nice.

45:36Don BurgessYeah, in England. So yeah, so, you know, I just feel so fortunate that I've had the opportunity to work with, you know, these people, you know, 'cause they're, they just have made these wonderful films for years and years. And they still, they're all the same. They love it. They still love it.

45:51Jawad MirWell, I hope you continue to make as many films as you can while you can. And I will just say one thing. This is a more personal thing. You and I will be working together on a film together very soon. I'm, I have a feeling. I am thinking about some things, and I'll…

46:06Don BurgessOh, great

46:06Jawad Mir... Reach out to you. I would love to do that. I would love to…

46:08Don BurgessAll right

46:08Jawad Mir... Have you and work together.

46:09Don BurgessAll right. Look forward to it.

46:10Jawad MirJust putting it out there.

46:12Don BurgessOkay. All right. Very good.

46:15Jawad MirAmazing. Amazing. Well, thank you, Don, for your lovely time. I hope you enjoy your day in Paris today.

46:22Don BurgessYes

46:22Jawad Mir... I hope it's not raining.

46:24Don BurgessWell, I got rained on already, but it was…

46:26Jawad MirOkay

46:27Don Burgess... But it was... Like, I went to the Louvre today. I'm shooting in a location nearby there, so I s… I, did a little location scout just to see if it's still, everything still looks the way it did, and of course, there's things in the way. Like it…

46:39Jawad MirYeah

46:40Don Burgess... As there always is. But I ended up, doing a wonderful tour at the, at the Louvre today. I mean, a day off in Paris, you know, it's tough to beat.

46:49Jawad MirYou can do so many things.

46:50Don BurgessYeah.

46:51Jawad MirYeah. Have you been to the Eiffel Tower, up to the top?

46:55Don BurgessI have years ago. I haven't been there in a while.

46:57Jawad MirYeah, you should try that. It's, it's amazing. I mean, it's been, I haven't been there long. Lots have changed, but, just putting it out there. But amazing. Thank you so much again, Don.

47:05Don BurgessYep. You bet.

47:06Jawad MirAll right.

47:06Don BurgessHad a good talk.

47:07Jawad MirLikewise.

47:07Don BurgessTake care.

47:08Jawad MirTake care. Bye-bye.