Anupama Chopra, Dining with Stars, Bollywood

0:00Anupama ChopraSee, I wouldn't say it's been doom and gloom, but to do really hard things, right? To do things that don't come easy or naturally to you. I mean, for me to even go from being a print journalist to an on-camera journalist was really hard. I had not trained to be that. I literally had to learn how to read the autocue without... You know, like, you tend to just move your neck like that and you look ridiculous. And I had to train, and then once I got a hang of that, when I got to Star, the first year was great. I did the front row in English, but then the second year I also did a show in Hindi and, you know, I think in English. So to have conversations... You know, a review is still okay. You're, you know, you write it down, you kind of read it a couple of times. But to be spontaneous in conversations, you have to have command on the language.

1:04Jawad MirGood morning, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Kingdom of Dreams podcast. I'm your host, Jawwad Mir. Today my guest is Anupama Chopra, a movie critic and author from India, who has been covering Indian film industry, or better known as Bollywood film industry, for the last three and a half decades. She's a remarkable movie critic. I've been following her work for years, finally got a chance to speak to her about her book, Dining with Stars, which is a conversation with different celebrities in India that she's had the pleasure of conversing with over the years. So without further ado, here is my conversation with movie critic and author Anupama Chopra. I would love to start off with, the book that you have written that has come out, and if you can talk about that a little bit, how that idea originated and the genesis behind that, and we can dive into a bit more other things.

1:50Anupama ChopraSure. So it's called Dining with Stars, and it's essentially a compilation of some of the best interviews that I and my colleague Sneha Menen Desai did, at Film Companion between 2014 and 2024. So the 10 years that Film Companion, existed. And essentially... You know, the truth is, I don't remember if it was an idea that I took to Bloomsbury or they came to us. I think they came to us, but Bloomsbury India thought that we should put it together, and I was very excited because Film Companion was such a piece of my heart. And to have a book that sort of captures some of those best moments, because of course, all the interviews are on YouTube and you can see them anytime, but I think to have them together, alongside each other and, you know, to have it, a book just sort of feels like it has longevity.

2:44Jawad MirRight. And that's, that's awesome. So, you know, when you went through the pilation of, you know, compilation of all your interviews, if you're done, 'cause I know, I mean, you have done way more than I have, but at the same time, most of the stuff I don't even remember that…

2:58Anupama ChopraRight

2:58Jawad Mir... You know, you do. So how did you go and pick and choose, obviously from a big list, but at the same time trying to find the right pieces that, you know…

3:07Anupama ChopraYeah

3:07Jawad Mir... Resonate with the audience?

3:10Anupama ChopraWell, you know, I think they... I mean, there's thousands. We did over, I think the, I think Film Companion is, like, over 3,000 videos across 10 years, so of course it was, it was a very tough choice. They,.. So Bloomsbury did a lot of the curation. We did the first round of, okay, these are what we think are amazing, like, the really standout ones, the ones that have resonated with audiences. Also we were, mindful that it should not be only Hindi film stars. So we wanted to include a Fahadh Faasil or a Mohanlal, sir, or a Diljit Dosanjh. But it is still largely Hindi cinema, but there's also a mix of other artists in there. So I, between Bloomsbury and us, we kind of came up with the list.

3:59Jawad MirGot it. Going back in, time, what was that moment that got you into journalism slash, you know, interviewing people, whether they are of celebrity nature or of just, you know, any kind of, professional career? If you can talk about that, I would love to hear that backstory.

4:20Anupama ChopraOh, that was so long ago.

4:23Jawad MirI know. I know.

4:23Anupama ChopraSo long ago, 'cause I've done this for more than 30 years now. So, you know, it was, it was... I actually, did, I did a bachelor's degree in English literature in Mumbai at the St. Xavier's College and, I really did not know what it is that I wanted to do or where, what the path was at that time. You know, and I'm talking about, like, late '80s. The choices usually for English lit grads were advertising or teaching. You know, those were the two kind of professions available. And I didn't wanna do either. And then, a substitute teacher actually suggested to me, because she used to do editing at a magazine called Movie. There used to be this film magazine called Movie, and she said, "You know, they're looking for somebody. Do you wanna just check it out till..." Just as a, you know, like "" stopgap arrangement till you figure out what you really wanna do. And I was like, "Yeah, sure." and I did that not even for a year, I don't think, but I completely fell in love.

5:30Anupama ChopraLike, I just said, "This is it. This is what I wanna do. I wanna talk about Hindi cinema. I wanna talk about Hindi film artists" but I also understood that I need to train as a journalist. So I actually then in the early '90s came to Northwestern University. I did a master's in journalism, then I worked in New York for a year at Harper's Bazaar magazine, which is of course a fashion magazine, but I was assistant to the entertainment editor, so still in the world of film. There was no streaming back then. And but I always knew that what I want is to talk about Hindi cinema. So for me, and at that point in, you know, in the early '90s, nobody ever went back. Like, once you…... Moved to America, you stayed in America, you know? But I was like, "No, I'm very clear that my path is Bollywood." And it was funny because people were like, "No way. You came back from America to write about Bollywood?" And I said, "That's all I wanna do," and that's what I did.

6:29Jawad MirW… I love movies. I'm in film business. I direct and produce, but at the same time, I love talking about films, right? Just as…

6:35Anupama ChopraYeah

6:35Jawad Mir... As you do. But when I used to see that energy that you have, not necessarily celebrities or stars, but it's just that context of film and the stories behind it's always so amazing to hear that and it just puts a smile on my face, and I just wanted to put that out there first.

6:49Anupama ChopraThank you.

6:51Jawad MirI would... You know, when you're going through your interviews over the years, you've spoken to so many people, and one of the things that you always do is when you are doing your craft, you discover a lot about yourself and you learn a lot of new things. If there was one or two things that you discovered about yourself and you learned over the last, you know, three decades, what would those be?

7:16Anupama ChopraYou know, honestly, I always feel that what I, what I keep thinking is how little I know and how much more there is to watch and see. And so, you know, because you can never, you can never, ever have watched all the films there are to watch, right? And I'm not even getting into streaming. Like, that's a whole different thing. So for me, the constant endeavor, and especially in the last 10 years, when we've started to i… as Indian journalists, started to also look at cinema in a much broader way. So we're not just looking at Hindi cinema and Hollywood cinema, but also Malayalam and Tamil and Telugu and Marathi and Bengali. And, you know, just to keep up with all of those, I mean, we're churning out, you know, 1,000, 2,000 movies a year in India. So the one thing I keep thinking about is how much more I have to see and what a gap there is in my education.

8:18Anupama ChopraAnd the other thing I think I've really learned is that the way to keep, to stay in love with what you do for such a long time is to always be the student. And I think, with my career, it's happened not by design, but you know, I started out as a, as a print journalist with India Today magazine, then I t… became a television journalist with NDTV 247, and then I went to Star World. Then from there I became a digital journalist on YouTube and social media. And while what I do is the same, because the mediums of communication changed, I had to really upskill and unlearn and, you know, really kind of stay on my toes, and I think that's really important to kind of just be in love and to be passionate and to not be cynical or bored at the idea of one more film review next Friday.

9:21Anupama ChopraYou know?

9:21Jawad MirMakes…

9:21Anupama ChopraSo I think those, for me, that's really important that I, you know, people keep saying like, "But why are you so ex… still, how are you s… still so excited?" Because I think the nature of the formats of my reviewing, of what I do have changed. I think the artists have broadened out, so like I said, it's not just Hindi films now. You know, I fly all the time to the south to talk to the artists from the four south industries. I go to Cannes every year. So all of those things really broaden your horizons. And I think if you want to play the long game, you have to remain a student and you have to keep doing new things.

10:05Jawad Mir100%. When you're going through your career, again, when I say you, I mean as in anyone, I know at least for me, what has happened to me over the years that the things that I remember the most in life, like, you know, looking back at 10 years or 20 years or 30 years, are the things that I went through in terms of like but like, you know, a bad experience or something terrible happened, at a shoot, you know, during school, and a professor being really tough on me. Those are the things that I really cherish. At the time, definitely not, but looking back at it, yes. Has there been any time in your career, whether you're interviewing a celebrity or your boss or, you know, sort of working with your boss, where everything seemed doom and gloom? Like, you know, a situation came and you're like, "Okay, this is something, like is, it… it just completely blew?"

11:02Anupama ChopraYou know, see, I wouldn't say it's been doom and gloom, but to do really hard things, right? To do things that don't come easy or naturally to you. I mean, for me to even go from being a print journalist to an on-camera journalist was really hard. I had not trained to be that. I literally had to learn how to read the autocue without, you know, like you tend to just move your neck like that and you look ridiculous. And I had to train. And then once I got a hang of that, when I got to Star, the first year was great. I did the front row in English, but then the second year I also did a show in Hindi and, you know, I think in English. So to have conversations, you know, a review is still okay. You're, you know, you write it down, you kind of read it a couple of times. But to be spontaneous in conversations, you have to have command on the language. And I remember like I would be like, it was so terrifying to me, to be doing...

12:06Anupama ChopraI mean, and this was incredible. Just by chance, one of the first interviews I did in Hindi was with Amitabh Bachchan, okay, who speaks the best Hindi on the planet. And I was mortified because I was like, "He's gonna say something and I'm not gonna understand it," which did happen. But I had an in-ear and… I had a writer, because he was using words like, you know, underlie taus and, vatanu coolith, which is air-conditioned.

12:39Jawad MirI have no idea what those mean.

12:41Anupama ChopraI said, "I'm gonna die," you know? But you go through those. Or a year in Cannes when I was both on the jury of A Certain Regard, and I was a reporter for NDTV, and it was so hectic and so chaotic, that I just had no time for meals, and eventually I ended up passing out i… after a movie. It was, it was almost, it was, like, darkly funny. And so I fainted, and they had to call the medics in, okay? And these are these giant burly French men who were called in because I had passed out, and this was in the Grand Théâtre Lumière, which is where the p… the, you know, the evening, the red carpet and the premieres happen. Because when you're on the jury, you do that, like, every evening. And what was hilarious was my crew for NDTV was leaving, to go back, and I had to stay on because I was on jury duty, so I still had a piece to camera. I still had to do this one piece to camera to end, like, saying goodbye from Cannes.

13:44Anupama ChopraAnd I was wearing this voluminous Abu Sandeep Anarkali, and so I just sat in that wheelchair that they put me on, and I covered the wheelchair with my Anarkali, and I did that piece to camera, which is so funny now when I think about it, but was so ridiculous in the moment. But, you know, when you, when you have experiences like that, I just feel like it's all worth it and so much fun.

14:07Jawad MirIt is, and those are the, like I said, those are the tough times, the difficult times that you remember the most. Like, I tell my kids this too.

14:13Anupama ChopraYeah.

14:13Jawad MirThat the teachers that are hard on you are the ones that you're gonna remember for the rest of your life

14:18Anupama ChopraExactly

14:19Jawad Mir... Because they're, they're gonna teach you.

14:20Anupama ChopraExactly. Yes.

14:20Jawad MirYou know? And I, so going to Cannes, going to festival, film festivals, whether it's TIFF or Venice or whatever, you have to watch movies, right?

14:30Anupama ChopraYeah.

14:31Jawad MirAnd you have to watch a lot of movies. I was at TIFF, not this year, the year before that, and I saw five movies in a day, and I, by the time the fifth movie hit, I was, like, out. Like, halfway through the film I was passed out.

14:43Anupama ChopraYeah.

14:43Jawad MirSo how many movies have you seen in a day, and does it become that much challenging, you know, going through s… and not, probably not in your career right now I would say, but probably earlier you may have done a lot.

14:54Anupama ChopraNo. I, you know, the thing is I want to be... So what happens is, and this is, this is, I wish it wasn't so, but the truth is that our market in India, most of those movies are never gonna come to India, right? So the Indian audience that I'm speaking to is not hugely invested in, the next latest whatever, Yorgos Lanthimos film, because very few of those will ever get past the censors and make it in any shape or form here. What they're deeply interested in is, of course, the stars, and the red carpet. And so eve… inevitably my job in Cannes, becomes, you know, chasing talent.

15:42Anupama ChopraWhich is, of course, Indian talent, but also Western talent. And interviews are the mainstay rather than reviews, but for me, I always laugh and say, "I can't be," you know, these actors live between Bandra and Juhu, where I live, so I can't go to Cannes, and my whole Cannes experience can't be watching, like, chasing them, right? So what I do is try and do at least two films a day. And that's usually what I manage in between the, you know, the kind of the interviews and the chasing, and then there's occasionally meetings as well because, you know, and then you have to show your face at, like, two and a half parties at least. So but at best I could do three on a day that's kind of quiet, but more than that I also, like you, Jamal, I'll start to phase out, and then there's no point.

16:33Jawad MirYeah. I learned that the hard way, and I think the fifth movie was terrible too, so that helped fasten me up.

16:38Anupama ChopraYeah, exactly. Exactly. And I love TIFF. I love TIFF. You know, the truth is TIFF is a little easier than Cannes, because Cannes also, for the hot in-competition movies, you have to line up.

16:50Jawad MirYeah.

16:50Anupama ChopraEven if you have that ticket, you still have to line up because the seats are not assigned, so you need to get there early enough. So it's like a whole, it's a, it's a, you know, it's a, what do you call it? Like a relay sport, right? You have to get there. I mean, for Tarantino's movie, when that showed, this is pre-pandemic, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.

17:10Anupama ChopraI stood in line for, like, three hours.

17:13Jawad MirWow.

17:13Anupama ChopraWe lined up three hours earlier…

17:15Jawad MirYeah

17:15Anupama Chopra... To get into that movie. So that's, and that's a part of the experience. You talk to people, you're standing in line, you're like, you know, you're cribbing about it, but you're happy to be there. But I think TIFF is a little easier, and I love TIFF. I am hoping to be back soon.

17:30Jawad MirYou know, watching films versus speaking to actors or actresses, I'm sure there's best moments of both, but, and I'm sure you enjoy them, both of them as equal, but if there was to pick one between the two if, you know, push comes to shove, which one do you enjoy the most? You know, whether it's in this part of your career or earlier part of your career.

17:53Anupama ChopraYou know, honestly I just can't pick one because it's so interconnected, right? Because I'm, when I'm speaking to artists I'm talking to them about the films I've seen, so I can't do one without doing the other, and honestly both are so joyous for me, that it would be really impossible. I mean, if you told me you could never do an interview again or you could never review a film again, I would just be equally sad.

18:21Jawad MirMakes sense. Has there been any, interview, whether it's in Hollywood or Bollywood or anywhere else, where you were quite intimidated? I mean, I know eventually you kind of get over those things because you do so many, but at certain part of your career, has there been any moment like that where you were complete... I mean, aside from the Amitabh Bachchan episode.

18:43Anupama ChopraI, also when you interview sort of institutions like a Kamal Hassan or a Mohanlal, you know, those are intimidating. Those are you don't wanna say something stupid, and the truth is they've done interviews for, like, 40 years, right? So what are you gonna say to them that's interesting and makes them engage, right, and not do it on autopilot because they're such pros at giving interviews. So I think those are always a little bit intimidating, and I don't do it as much, but back in the day when I used to do a lot of Hollywood junkets, like 10 years ago, that's just an insane kind of format, right? Because you're there along with 40 other journalists from across the world, and you have basically five minutes

19:29Anupama Chopra... Which means it's, like, three questions if you're lucky, and you're sitting in front of, you know, Angelina Jolie or Brad Pitt or, Robert Downey Jr. I mean, I remember interviewing him for the first Avengers film and so you have to get something, and there's a clock or there's a human being with a, you know, with a thing saying, "Last question. Please wrap up." and that's like, that is a real test of how well you do what you do.

19:58Jawad MirAmazing. If there was a film that you were to pick or a few films, I know that's a hard question, too, because somebody asked me that and I'm like, "I have no idea," you know, whether it's Hollywood or Bollywood, a combination, that's, that have sort of stood out in your life that have, you know, that you've enjoyed a lot…

20:14Jawad Mir... You know, as an audience member, what would those be if some names came to mind?

20:18Anupama ChopraSo of course Sholay, because it also ended up, you know, being a part of my life in a bigger way when I wrote the book, and then I won a national award for that book. So it just, you know, it ended up just having such a significant impact on my life, so that would be one. The original Star Wars would be one. I have such clear memories of watching that as a little girl. And it was just phenomenal. I think more recently, maybe the Malayalam film Kumbalangi Nights, because after I saw that, I kind of fell in love and just kept seeking out Malayalam cinema and watching more and more and more. So that really kind of helped open out my head, in a big way. You know, to and to, for me to become sort of mo… really proactive in seeking out experiences which are not Bollywood. You know, so I would say those films, and of course, I mean, films I love are, like, you know, Brokeback Mountain or, a Tamil film called Super Deluxe.

21:29Anupama ChopraYou know, all these just you watch them, and they stay with you.

21:32Jawad MirYeah, 100%. And in the era that we're in, you know, there, as you said, there's so much stuff. There's so many streaming films, and there's films, whether it's Hollywood or Bollywood, I mean, I know you cover Bollywood, but just in general, at least for me, when I look at films now, right, when you watch films, they don't have that same feel, at least for me, as they did 10, 15 years ago or 25 years ago. I saw The Rock, the…

21:58Anupama ChopraRight

21:58Jawad Mir... John Connor movie last night with my kids. You know, I showed it to them, and they loved it. I just don't feel personally that stuff is, that kind of stuff is made even in India. ... Where do you see cinema heading, the fact that you have been exposed to it so many years, and…

22:14Anupama ChopraYeah

22:15Jawad Mir... Is it in a dying situation in your view? Or is it just going through…

22:19Anupama ChopraNo

22:19Jawad Mir... A transition?

22:20Anupama ChopraYeah. I, look, I'm the eternal optimist, and I feel like, you know, a studio head in Hollywood told me this, that if the pandemic didn't kill cinema, nothing will. You know, so I think it is a period of transition, but especially in India, it is still, it's such a joy to be in a theater, you know, surrounded by people. I would never give that up for anything. Even though I love streaming, I love the convenience of it, I love how it's expanded my aesthetic palette because I'm watching so much more, but the theatrical experience is so special, that it, you know, you... I think cinema will adapt. And the really sort of the stories that speak to us will endure. I think, you know, it's, it's not gonna disappear. It's, you know, for... I keep hearing, and this is not obviously some study, but anecdotal evidence that people are now going back to buying DVDs, because they want to own the films that they love, and nobody's sure which streaming platform will dump which film.

23:33Anupama ChopraSo, you know, I feel like it's all cyclical, and it will transition, but is it gonna die out? No, I don't think so.

23:42Jawad MirAnd I... You're right about the DVDs because there is a huge market now. Like, it's…

23:45Anupama ChopraYeah

23:46Jawad Mir... You know, es… especially in Hollywood. I... They keep re-releasing, like, the 4K version of X movie that came out 20 years ago, and people are…

23:53Anupama ChopraExactly

23:53Jawad Mir... Buying, people are buying them, 100%.

23:55Anupama ChopraYeah. Yeah.

23:56Jawad MirAnything that you wanna give your audience, about the book that they should... You know, why should they buy your book? Why should they read your book?

24:05Anupama ChopraSure.

24:05Jawad MirI know this is kind of like self-promotion, but still.

24:07Anupama ChopraNo. Listen, it has to be done. It's part of an author's life now.

24:11Jawad MirYeah

24:12Anupama Chopra... And I think genuinely, and it's, it is a valid question especially because this is a book of interviews that you can watch on YouTube, right? So why would you read a book? For me, what made it worth doing was the fact that you have these interviews alongside each other. I mean, I love YouTube. My professional life is almost all YouTube, but there's a lot of content on YouTube, and it gets lost, right? But in between the covers of a book, you have, like, almost 50 interviews, and what happens is it really captures a place and a time and the way artists thought in this specific decade, what their vulnerabilities were. You know, also how they were at a certain position in their career, right? So the Diljit interview, which might be five or seven years old, is very different from perhaps a Diljit who's walked the Met Gala last year, you know? So I think it's, it has such archival value, and it really gives you a sense of the Indian film industry, and that's what makes the book valuable.

25:22Anupama ChopraThat's the reason I thought it was worth doing.

25:24Jawad MirAmazing, and anything next for you aside from doing what you do that is coming up that you would like to share?

25:31Anupama ChopraNo. Right now it's all The Hollywood Reporter India, and, you know, making sure we keep going and soaring.

25:40Jawad MirAmazing. Thank you so much, Anupama, for your time. I appreciate it. It's been a pleasure.

25:43Anupama ChopraTake care, and good luck. All the best.

25:45Jawad MirThank you.

25:46Anupama ChopraBye.

25:46Jawad MirBye-bye. Bye.

25:56Anupama ChopraBye.