'Bridgerton', Cinematographer, Alicia Robbins

0:00Alicia RobbinsFor the first time, I was shooting Bridgerton episodes that didn't have ballroom scenes. Stairwell scene that happened, intimacy scene that happened b… between Benedict and Sophie, and that was a built set, and it was a massive set. I can talk about it too. I'm actually…

0:17Jawad MirSure

0:18Alicia Robbins... Doing Baywatch. So it's, the new reboot of Baywatch, and I'm the pilot DP on it, so I'm setting the look for it, which is really exciting. With our two episodes, we just had much bigger scenes with a lot of people in them. Funeral scenes. We had a whole celebration of life scene. It's basically all of the cast members. Doing two seasons of Bridgerton where I was being, where I was being gone for seven months o… on end, and I was like, "Wow, this is, this is really hard." And as much as I love shooting that show, it was hard being away from home.

1:01Jawad MirWelcome back, everyone, to another episode of Kingdom of Dreams Podcast: The Making of Stories. I'm your host Jawad Neer. I am so sorry for being away for almost two months. I wanted to take a month break, but it turned out to be two months due to a lot of other things going on, and plus sort of having me kinda sit back and reflect on 280-plus episodes that we have done on this podcast and how to approach things more or less the same but kinda add something fresh to it. Today I have a pleasure of bringing back Alecia Robbins, who is a cinematographer on Bridgerton series. She shot four of the eight episodes in the new season, volume one and two. My conversation with Alecia Robbins was fantastic. I'd only seen one episode that he had, she had shot at the time we did this recording, and now season four, volume two is out today. So without further ado, here's my conversation with cinematographer Alecia Robbins. It's been a while.

1:53Alicia RobbinsIt has been a while. A couple years, right? Probably.

1:57Jawad MirHas it been two years?

1:58Alicia RobbinsIt might've been 'cause it, I mean, it takes us, like, two years to get out a season of Bridgerton, so that would make sense.

2:04Jawad MirYeah, you're right. I think, yeah, close to two years. I think we probably spoke April or May two years ago, something like that.

2:12Alicia RobbinsYeah. Yeah, that would make sense. It's good to see you.

2:15Jawad MirHow have you… likewise. How have you been?

2:18Alicia RobbinsI've been good. I'm busy again, so, it's, yeah, it's been good.

2:26Jawad MirThat's awesome. And, obviously the Bridgerton season four part one came out, and part two I think comes out next…

2:33Alicia RobbinsIt comes out this week, Thursday

2:35Jawad Mir... This week.

2:35Alicia RobbinsThis coming up Thursday.

2:37Jawad MirYeah.

2:37Alicia RobbinsYeah.

2:38Jawad MirYeah.

2:38Alicia RobbinsSo.

2:38Jawad MirHow has it been, received, in, from the circle around you? Not media, I'm talking about the…

2:44Alicia RobbinsReally well. Like, I've j… I've gotten a lot of texts from people just telling me how beautiful it is. And, it's funny though because I haven't, I haven't really been reading a ton of publicity on it lately 'cause I'm busy with my other show right now, so I just haven't, honestly I haven't really focused on it that much. And I know that there's all this great publicity out there about the show. I just haven't read it all.

3:10Jawad MirThat's okay. That's okay. I mean, as long as it's being admired and you're getting texts, you know, that's, that's the good thing. And those…

3:16Alicia RobbinsYeah

3:16Jawad Mir... Will always be there, so you're, whatever you're working on now obviously will not be, so better to focus on that.

3:23Alicia RobbinsYeah, exactly. Yeah. This is, I'm, I can talk about it too. I'm actually…

3:26Jawad MirSure

3:26Alicia Robbins... Doing Baywatch. So it's, the new reboot of Baywatch, and I'm the pilot DP on it, so I'm setting the look for it, which is really exciting.

3:38Jawad MirAwesome. It's, this is a reboot of a reboot. Wasn't there another reboot that came out maybe?

3:42Alicia RobbinsNo, it did 11 seasons. There was a movie that had come out, but

3:46Jawad MirOh, the movie, yes.

3:48Alicia RobbinsYeah. But no, this is actually the show coming back, so this is the first time it's ever been rebooted. Yeah, so and we're shooting here in Los Angeles. We're in Venice Beach. We're at Fox Studios, so it's, it's a, it's a, it's been the talk, kind of the talk of the town since we've been in prep.

4:08Jawad MirRight. Right. Well, that's awesome. Well, congratulations. I hope it…

4:11Alicia RobbinsThank you

4:11Jawad Mir... Gets picked up.

4:12Alicia RobbinsOh, I mean, it, y… we're s… we are, we went straight to 12 episodes, so yeah.

4:16Jawad MirOh, okay, so it has been for first season at least. That's good.

4:19Alicia RobbinsYeah. So the first season…

4:21Jawad MirWicked

4:21Alicia Robbins... Yeah, it's good.

4:23Jawad MirLovely to…

4:23Alicia RobbinsSo I know what I'm doing for the next few months, which is great.

4:27Jawad MirAnd it, is it gonna be all in LA?

4:29Alicia RobbinsYep.

4:31Jawad MirGood stuff.

4:31Alicia RobbinsYeah.

4:31Jawad MirYeah.

4:32Alicia RobbinsLA show. Thank goodness. We need more of that.

4:37Jawad MirYeah. I mean, a lot going on in the industry right now. Obviously, you know, so many things that we're still dealing with, and now there's the whole Warner Brothers and Netflix and Paramount thing going on, and…

4:48Alicia RobbinsYeah

4:49Jawad Mir... It's, it's fun times.

4:51Alicia RobbinsIt's crazy times.

4:54Jawad MirYes. So let's talk about Bridgerton.

4:57Alicia RobbinsSure

4:57Jawad Mir... You know, I've only seen the first two episodes. I haven't seen all four of them, just haven't had… ... The time to go through all of them. But, you know, I, the thing that sorta stood out for me the most, maybe you'll probably wonder why that, you know, the fi… the series is very colorful, as we've talked about last time. Like, it has a very kinda like a technicolor feel to it, and the lighting is amazing, the costume, the, you know, the wide shots. But contrasting to that, because that is the show, there is a scene in the very first episode I think where the lighting is very dim. They're underneath some hedges or trees, th… this couple. I forget their names. And I thought the lighting over there was really fantastic because it's hard to control, you know, it's…

5:43Jawad Mir... Al… it's not that it's easy to do other kind of lighting, but this one is a little bit more different. It's contrasting the show. It's hard to… ... Kinda get all the sh… you know, the shadows and highlights. If you can sorta talk to me about that, just to kind of get the ball rolling.

5:55Alicia RobbinsWell, I didn't shoot that, so

5:57Jawad MirOh, you did not shoot that. I am so sorry. I thought you did all of them.

6:01Alicia RobbinsNo. I did episodes two and four, and…

6:05Jawad MirOkay. My bad

6:06Alicia Robbins... Then, that's okay, and then I did seven and eight. So, yeah

6:09Jawad MirOkay. So we'll talk about those two

6:11Alicia RobbinsYeah, so I split, I split it with Jeff Jur. Jeff Jur has been on since season one, and, so like season three I shot four episodes. He actually did two episodes of season three, but then season four we sh… shot four each. But yeah, so episode one…

6:26Jawad MirThat's okay

6:26Alicia Robbins... I could guess what he did, but we can talk about…

6:30Jawad MirNo

6:30Alicia Robbins... Episode two for sure.

6:32Jawad MirLet… let's, let's, let's talk about episode two. My apologies for that. I somehow assumed…

6:36Alicia RobbinsAll good

6:36Jawad Mir... And kind of looked through the credits

6:38Alicia RobbinsNo, it's hard... Well, because season three I did do episodes one and two, and then this time around I did episodes two and four, and then the two finale episodes, seven and eight. So i… yeah, it… we jump all over the place, so it's…

6:53Jawad MirFair enough

6:54Alicia Robbins... Honest mistake. Don't worry.

6:57Jawad MirAll good. So let… let's talk about episode two. You know, when you ca… obviously you've worked on the last season, and getting on the season this year, which you've known for a while, what was the, you know, the play, the template like? Was it kinda keeping the, following the same thread that you had sort of, you know, been part of the, in the second, in the last season, or was there some different elements that you were trying to bring in just from a grand scheme of things first of all?

7:28Alicia RobbinsWell, each season, the, we do try to change the look a little bit based on whose story it is. And so in contrast to season three, this one had this whole upstairs downstairs m… motif going on with the servants, and so that was able, i… it enabled us to be a little more gritty, a little bit, more rough around the edges, and it's still a Bridgerton way when we're going downstairs into the servants' quarters. And how we shot that, there was more atmos, there was more, texture, sometimes handheld, which is not really also in line with, previous seasons of Bridgerton. So it, yeah, we got to be a little more grounded in how we shot those servant scenes, which was, which was actually really exciting for me. And one thing that I loved about especially episode two and four, for the first time I was shooting Bridgerton episodes that didn't have ballroom scenes.

8:34Alicia RobbinsSo e… almost every episode, it has usually a big party or a big ballroom scene, and neither two or four d… they didn't have ballroom scenes in them. And so it really was character-driven. It was about that relationship between Sophie and Benedict. And so it made it more intimate, and sh… we shot it that way. It was more intimate. It was a lot of fireside chats. It's, actually one of my favorite scenes in scene, episode two, was one of the very first scenes that I shot with our director, Jaafar Mahmoud, who's unbelievable director, by the way. It's the, where she first hears him in her house, and it's that whole that's, the through the doorway scene, and just feeling that crack of light on her face. Like, that was, that was just, that was showing where we were gonna go at least for the rest of the season is telling the story through showing it versus always telling it, or saying it in dialogue.

9:37Alicia RobbinsBut, like, showing that crack in the door and that light. Like, and that was kinda the theme for the whole season, at least for me.

9:46Jawad MirLovely. And w… correct me if I'm wrong, that scene that you talked about, different look, was the kitchen scene in episode two?

9:55Alicia RobbinsWe had a few different kitchen scenes, so…

9:57Jawad MirWhere the, where the maids and the servants are working

10:00Alicia Robbins... I mean, the, we definitely had scenes in there, but for episode two we were more in the Penwoods' house downstairs, which also we're trying to show a contrast between the Penwood house and their kind of dingy quarters for the servants because they don't care about them, it's very Cinderella, versus the Bridgerton servants' quarters, which still was, like, huge open space and, like, obviously the most lovely place to work even if you're still a servant. So we, yeah, we had that, throughout two and actually episode four we had a lot of downstairs elements from the Bridgerton house.

10:43Jawad MirRight. And, you know, lighting-wise, if we can get into a little bit technical, aspect of the cinematography, y… I know you said that you ki… you guys kinda toned down a little bit and still at the same time try to give a little slightly different fuse or look but still remaining the original. What was the most challenging scene to light despite the fact you've done this, you know, before, but every scene bring its own challenge depending on the mood, depending on the story, what the story, where the story's at?

11:12Jawad Mir... If you can talk about the most challenging scene and why was that, was that the case?

11:18Alicia RobbinsActually the most challenging scene to light was in episode four, which is, at the end there's this stairwell scene that happens that is the intimate s… intimacy scene that hap… b… between Benedict and Sophie. And that was a built set, and it was a massive set, so it was, actually four stories of stairwells that they could collide, and then they have this whole intimate moment in there. But the trick with that stairwell is there's actually no place to put a light. You have to light it from the windows. You have to let the candles do the work for you. And then once you get into coverage, then I might be able to put a little light in there just to fill it. I mean, even during that scene I would be standing there with, like, I had this soft little ball that I would always run around with and try to get on actors' faces. And so I would be next to camera trying to light someone's face a lot of times just so I could get exactly what I was looking for. But that was really complicated. It required, because we were doing this oner, it gets cut up, but because we're trying to do this oner on a cable camera, the camera's literally spinning…

12:24Jawad MirYeah

12:25Alicia Robbins... Upward, spinning down as they're running up or down. When you're looking towards the windows, you have to dim them down in order to get the right ratio. And then when you're looking away from the window, you wanna boost it back up again so it pushes that moonlight into the space. And so we had my board op watching the monitor and cuing it, like, right before the camera would look at the window, and then right as it was panning away from the window, bringing the light back up. And so there was all these cues as that happened and, but it was fun. It was actually a really fun challenge, too, to try to, how do we light this practically with candles and just some moonlight? And yeah, be… basically get a 360 out of it. So that was actually one of the most complicated scenes. And also it's gotta, still gotta look pretty. I mean, they're about to have this intimacy scene. They gotta look good. They gotta look hot on camera. So you have to... Honestly, leaning into the darkness helped with that, too.

13:26Alicia RobbinsSo as long as they were in backlit and a little bit of firelight fill, then it was lovely, very romantic, very sexy.

13:36Jawad MirWith that scene, I haven't seen it, but I'm just kind of visualizing, you know, as you're describing it. When a se… and it's a set you said, so when a set is built, like, with production designers always sort of coordinating with cinematographer and vice versa…

13:49Jawad Mir... Was there ever a point, instead of saying, like, "Let's just shoot the lights through the windows and notch them up or, you know, turn, dim them down," was there ever a talk of placing lights around the staircase or on the ceiling just to kind of…

14:05Alicia RobbinsWell, that would've been the candles, yeah. So because there's, it's only candlelight in that era. So we did have that discussion of where those candles should go on the walls based… ... On where they would be, and especially where they landed. So we specifically asked for candelabras being in particular places so I could either motivate off those candles or actually use the light from those candles. So this is one of those times where having a Sony Venice that sh… can shoot at 2500 A… ASA is very helpful because you're actually getting a lot off those candlelight. So, yeah, so there was a discussion, absolutely. But it's candles not

14:47Jawad MirRight. Right

14:47Alicia Robbins... Not practicals.

14:49Jawad MirRight. Right.

14:49Alicia RobbinsSo it's candles. And I did have some just overall ambient, warm ambient that I did hang from above 'cause we never saw the ceiling 'cause that's where the cable cam was coming up and down. So we never saw the ceiling. So I did have some lights above that is just, like, had a warm ambient. But you can't really go too heavy on the top light because it's just not flattering, and it's also just doesn't, it just doesn't feel right. So it was just a little bit of an ambient from above, but the rest of it's coming from the windows or the candle.

15:22Jawad MirGot it. You mentioned Sony Venice, since you mentioned the camera. Have you tried Sony Burano? Just kind of like off topic.

15:29Alicia RobbinsWe actually had, we did, we had that on the show. So we, that was going to be a… an additional, like, if we had to get in a tight corner, if we had to go handheld sometimes. But, we ended up not needing it as much as I thought we would. Honestly, it's because usually we have plenty of room to do what we need to do in these spaces. So…

15:53Jawad MirYeah

15:54Alicia Robbins... So didn't n… I didn't end up pulling the Burano out as much, but I have used with, used it a little bit and I've played with it and it's, it's a pretty sweet little camera.

16:05Jawad MirObviously, you prefer the Venice more.

16:07Alicia RobbinsI do just because, the Buran… I mean, the Burano is smaller, but it's not that much smaller, so it's not really, it's not getting me

16:19Jawad MirAnything different

16:20Alicia Robbins... Not really, no. I could see myself, if I was shooting an independent feature, 'cause it's also a less expensive camera.

16:27Jawad MirYeah.

16:27Alicia RobbinsSo if I were shooting an independent feature that I was had to be a little bit more run-and-gun, more handheld, I think the Burano would be the camera I would choose. So I would, I could see myself using it again in the future. But for Bridgerton, it wasn't, it just wasn't necessary for me to pull it out very much.

16:48Jawad MirYou talked about cable cams and the oner or, you know, supposed oner where you sort of cut off at a certain point where it seems physically…

16:54Alicia RobbinsOh, it always gets cut.

16:55Jawad MirRight.

16:56Alicia RobbinsI mean, that's…

16:56Jawad MirYeah. Yeah

16:57Alicia Robbins... That's…

16:57Jawad MirYeah

16:58Alicia Robbins... Just the nature of it.

16:59Jawad MirI was very impressed with that show, The Studio.

17:03Alicia RobbinsOh, yeah.

17:04Jawad MirWhich I've…

17:04Alicia RobbinsYeah.

17:05Jawad MirSo I was talking…

17:05Alicia RobbinsThey actually saw a oner.

17:07Jawad MirYeah.

17:07Alicia RobbinsYeah.

17:08Jawad MirI was talking to E… Eric Kissack, who's the editor, and

17:11Alicia Robbinshuh

17:11Jawad Mir... You know, I was like, so I was like, "Really, how many oners were there?" Right? And then he explained on the podcast that how when the camera pans and if you pay…

17:18Alicia RobbinsThere are cuts in it. Yeah.

17:20Jawad MirYeah.

17:20Alicia RobbinsThere's…

17:20Jawad MirYou pull the tension. And they got, they got so good at it that you can rarely tell now.

17:24Alicia RobbinsYeah.

17:24Jawad MirThere's those stitches that you put in.

17:26Alicia RobbinsYeah. No, that's, it's great. I mean, it's still fantastic, but

17:30Jawad MirOh, no, it is. It is.

17:31Alicia RobbinsYeah.

17:31Jawad MirIt is. But I was gonna ask you, all these tools and gadgets and these oners, so-called oners, you know, s… do they sometimes come in the way of storytelling or does it... Like, sometime does it, you guys become, when I say you guys, as in you and your team, become so excited about it that sometimes that kinda supersedes? Or if, has that ever happened and you kinda, like, pulled yourself back out of it? Like, "No, we need to focus on the story and what the story demands."

18:02Alicia RobbinsWith Bridgerton, because it's kind of rare to do these really crazy shots, if we do it's because there's a specific reason for it. And we're always choosing it because of the storytellin' as… tori… storytelling aspect of that shot. So… For instance, like with this cable cam, because the whole theme was upstairs downstairs from episode one. She's always been downstairs, he's upstairs. He's regency, you know, high… hierarchy. What is it? He's re… what's the word I'm even looking for? Not hierarchy.

18:42Jawad MirHi… hi…

18:43Alicia RobbinsHe's…

18:43Jawad MirSay that again

18:44Alicia Robbins... He's, no he's, he's, he's regency era. He's not a duke, but you know, he's, he's way higher up in hierarchy than…

18:53Jawad MirOkay

18:53Alicia Robbins... She is. Status. So we're always playing with her being below, him being above. At one point in episode three, which is not my episode, but they're kind of on the same level a lot because they're at that house together, and th… we made a conscious effort in episode four when she starts working at the Bridgerton house, there's this split again. As he's going upstairs, she's going downstairs, and we're, and we're doing these camera angles that show that split that happens. And so when this, the stairwell scene happens at the end of four, the whole idea of being able to spin with her, following her up the stairs, and spin with him as he's coming down, and they literally crash on the same level, is absolutely part of telling that story of them meeting in the middle again, and then n… and then they can't control themselves and they're all over each other. So, I do feel like when we play around and do some crazy shots, especially on Bridgerton, there is absolutely a story reason behind it, and it's not just because, "Oh, this could be kinda cool.

20:08Alicia RobbinsThis is, this would be a fun gimmick to do." It is because of the story that's being told at the moment.

20:16Jawad MirFantastic. And you know, talking about, I just lost my train of thought. It was,.. Sorry, give me one second.

20:28Alicia RobbinsAll good.

20:30Jawad MirOkay, I'll come back to it. W… oh, yes, I remember now. Blocking. You know, blocking is definitely something that stands out for me in Bridgerton. Th… you know, throughout the seasons that I've seen. But in this specific season, I, although this is not your episode, but just in general the very first episode, the way the camera sort of comes down onto the street then goes sort of cuts to, you know, the movement of the servants and the people, and it's, it's present throughout episode two as well.

21:06Jawad MirHow... You know, blocking is a s… is an art, it's a skill set of movement of actors. How do you sort of go, what's your process of working with that ... Just in general, whether it's on this series or the one that you're working on or something in the past?

21:21Alicia RobbinsYeah. It, well, it changes per director as well. For episodes two and four my director, Jaafar, had very clear ideas about how people would be moving through the space and what those shots would be to, move with them, and it, the funny thing with that is normally when I'm working with a director who comes in with a really clear plan, I get nervous. I get nervous because sometimes those clear plans aren't necessarily very good. I hate to say, but sometimes they…

21:58Jawad MirBut very good or may not be, executable depending on the space and the…

22:02Alicia RobbinsMay not be exe…

22:02Jawad Mir... Lighting

22:03Alicia RobbinsYes, ex… exactly. They're, either they're not... And this isn't everyone, but once in a while they'll, they, understanding the geography of a space and how lensing relates to it is a skill that is, that takes years to develop, and sometimes you never develop it. Like, spatial awareness in an abstract form of how people are moving through it and what that lensing is gonna look like in relationship to that movement without actually seeing it happening is a skill set that honestly a lot of directors don't have. And that's okay. That's when I usually help. That's when I'll step in and I'll be like, "What if they moved like this and actually ended up over here? 'Cause then I got this great framing. Steadicam can do this, and da." And a lot of times we'll figure that either in pre-production as we're working it out, or sometimes even just on the day. In this situation, Jaafar has fantastic ideas, and when he started to give me his overhead drawings of the blocking and the camera relationships to them and how they would move through the space, I was like, "Oh my gosh, that's actually what I would wanna do with this scene.

23:18Alicia RobbinsHuh. Let's see how the next drawing comes in. Maybe that was luck." And then all of a sudden I started getting all of his camera plans and I was looking through them, reading the scripts thoroughly and look… and I was like, "Huh. Again, yeah, that's probably what I would do anyway." So then I started realizing, "Oh my gosh, I'm gonna be able to sit back..." Not sit back, but I can think a little bit more about the execution of it, adjustments where needed or ideas, like if I had some other ideas I could throw them at him, and then also just super concentrating on the lighting and just making it spectacularly gorgeous. And I found that working relationship to be just such a breath of fresh air, and I feel like episodes two and four, because we had such a synchronicity between the way that we work together, I feel like it shows on the screen…

24:12Jawad MirSure

24:12Alicia Robbins... With episodes two and four. So yeah, it a… it always depends on the director. Like, sometimes they want me, and I don't, I don't mind this, sometimes they want me to really be hands-on with helping them decide on the blocking of it and where are people in relationship to each other, especially for, like, ballroom scenes. I mean, sometimes… It's necessary for me to be part of those initial plannings because I know what is achievable. I know where, like, how quickly can I move with getting all this... I know how the ADs work now too. I know how long it takes to pull all the background in and get those dance numbers going. It is very time-consuming. Just is. It's just moving a ton of people. So I do feel like when it comes to ballroom scenes, me having early hands in on that action of blocking is very helpful. And so it's more of a team effort. So seven and eight was approached a little bit more that way, 'cause honestly, Anya and I had bigger scenes to do.

25:18Alicia RobbinsWith our two episodes, we just had much bigger scenes with a lot of people in them. And so we had funeral scenes. We had a whole celebration of life scene. It's basically all of the cast members. And then the ball… ballroom scenes that we had at the end, including, like, the takedown of this evil stepmother, it had basically 10 to 12 people all having conversation with each other all the time. And that is just, that's really hard for, I think, one person to wrap their head around. I know I wouldn't wanna do that. And also just understanding, like, okay, what cameras can I put together to help cover this? And so Anya and I worked very close together on figuring out how to put those large sequences together. And I know that, like, if Joffer and I too had bigger scenes like that, I would probably be in on those camera blockings early on. We just didn't, we didn't have that. We had more of that character-driven stuff, which was more like two people in a room, three.

26:22Alicia RobbinsIt was, it wasn't these big, these big ballroom scenes.

26:27Jawad MirRight. So for something like that with what you're explaining, was, would it be just one camera running, or would you guys have other cameras or…

26:35Alicia RobbinsYeah, a lot of times for episodes two and four, I st… I still ran B camera sometimes, but most of the time it was a single camera situation.

26:45Jawad MirRight.

26:45Alicia RobbinsIt would only be once we're in a room and we've shot the master shot, and if I could figure out a way to have maybe a wider and a close-up or off angle if it served the story. Like, we didn't wanna just, oh, get another camera on there just for coverage. That's not the show. So, B camera had to stand down quite a bit for episodes two and four. But for seven and eight…

27:09Jawad MirYeah, that's what I meant

27:10Alicia Robbins... She was running all the time. All the time.

27:12Jawad MirYeah.

27:13Alicia RobbinsYeah. Yeah.

27:13Jawad MirYeah, I can imagine. You know, you talked about blocking and directing, and listen, everybody's different. I know directors who don't know a thing about lens, a thing about camera…

27:24Alicia RobbinsYeah

27:24Jawad Mir... But I know people who do, and that's fine, right? That's, I mean…

27:27Alicia RobbinsYeah.

27:29Jawad MirI'm, I'm not trying to pass any sort of, you know, judgment. I just feel that it's important to know ab… something about the way the camera operates, something about the way the editing takes place, something about the lighting, something... 'Cause it just, even though it's a collaborative effort, the vision of the director kind of translates easier to each of the department, as opposed to not knowing anything other than just working with the actors, which is great skill set to have too. What's, what's, just in general, what's your thought about that? Because we were talking about it. Without, I'm, I don't wanna name names. I'm just sort of…

28:03Alicia RobbinsYeah

28:03Jawad Mir... Talking out loud here.

28:05Alicia RobbinsNo, absolutely, because if they, if they don't have a sense of camera and lighting or even, like, just the organization of the day and how it all plays together and how... What happens is I end up directing. So I don't like, I don't like having to do that. I'm a DP. I don't really have ambitions to be a director, so I prefer it when I have someone that actually does understand lensing and camera movement and all those things where we can just work together. But yeah, if they don't have any of that, then I do... If you're just an actor's director and you only know how to talk to someone about performance, I honestly wonder why they're directing.

28:57Jawad MirYeah, no, it makes…

28:58Alicia RobbinsAnd that does happen. It happens…

28:59Jawad MirIt does

28:59Alicia Robbins... A lot. It doesn't, it hasn't happened on Bridgerton. Like, Bridgerton, I've had some really good directors, but, I've had it happen before, and it's weird. You're kinda like, "Okay, let me,.. Well, let's put them here and block them here and da, and camera will do this." Yeah. Like, well, why do you wanna direct then?

29:23Jawad MirYeah. I mean, it's, it's important to know how to work with the actors too, because that's…

29:27Alicia RobbinsOh, yeah

29:27Jawad Mir... Also something you need, right? But

29:29Alicia RobbinsYeah

29:29Jawad Mir... But just to have a little bit of everything. I mean, you reminded me, you said that you would be directing. You reminded me of the story. I don't know if you know this assistant director. He teaches now. His name is Peter D. Marshall.

29:39Alicia RobbinsNo, I don't know.

29:40Jawad MirHe's worked, apparently he's worked on a lot of films in the '90s, early 2000s. So I had a class with him. This was, like, 10, 15 years ago. And he told us a story, and he didn't name names, the name of the film or anything. He goes, "This guy came up, applied for a job on this film as a director, and the studios hired him. He came on the set. He knew nothing." "He made up, he made up all the stuff on the resume."

30:03Alicia RobbinsOh.

30:03Jawad MirEverything.

30:04Alicia RobbinsOkay.

30:05Jawad MirSo the assistant director pretty much directed the entire film.

30:09Alicia RobbinsOkay.

30:10Jawad MirAnd the director, and the director got the credit. So I mean, stuff like that does happen too, right?

30:15Alicia RobbinsYeah.

30:15Jawad MirAnd then obviously…

30:16Alicia RobbinsYeah

30:16Jawad Mir... That person would never come back again, but why go through all that trouble to be able to get kind of blacklisted when you don't know what you're doing?

30:23Alicia RobbinsYeah. I mean, the obviously they won't come back again is not true.

30:28Jawad MirNo, they won't come back again. That's what I'm saying.

30:30Alicia RobbinsNo, there's, there's lots of people that I've worked with that have lots of credits that…

30:37Jawad MirReally?

30:37Alicia Robbins... Are still... Yes. But I don't know how it happens. I really don't know how it happens. It's, it's very strange. You're like, "Wait a minute, you did such and such, and you did this and that," and you're… and then you're like, "Oh my gosh, and they're not doing anything here either." because th… they're getting hired off their resume, and if they can kind of just fake it through and everyone else around them is putting it together for them, unless a producer calls a reference specifically, not their agent, but calls a reference specifically and says, "How was this person to work with?" How would you even know?

31:17Jawad MirI see.

31:17Alicia RobbinsYou're hiring them off their resume, so…

31:19Jawad MirYeah, but I w… I would imagine people would ask for a reference. I mean, isn't that what they're supposed to do?

31:23Alicia RobbinsNot always. It doesn't always happen that way, no.

31:26Jawad MirWow.

31:27Alicia RobbinsIt's cra… yeah, no, I know, it's crazy. So, there's a lot of people, not a lot, it might be getting better at this point, especially with social media and…

31:38Jawad MirYeah

31:38Alicia Robbins... It, word gets out at how people actually work and behave. So I'm not sure if that would continue. How…

31:49Jawad MirYeah

31:49Alicia Robbins... W… with just the mass amount of information that you can get from people. But yeah, you'd be surprised at how many people still don't really know how to direct, but are actually getting directing roles. It's frustrating as a DP. Like, when I do get paired up with someone like that, and again, I'm not naming any names. I've worked on tons of episodes of television, so you could just guess.

32:16Jawad MirSure.

32:16Alicia RobbinsLike, there's so many…

32:17Jawad MirI'm going to IMDb tonight.

32:19Alicia RobbinsThere's so many people that I've worked with, so I'm not naming anyone at all. But yeah, there are still some people out there that just don't really do much.

32:29Jawad MirAnd that's not fair to other directors, right? Like, I, you know, looking at it from my perspective, am I, do I know everything? No. But, you know, if you're trying to work hard and being able to tran… you know, sort of convert yourself into like a mini expert in every little department as much as you can, and other people who have no clue and they're getting all the jobs, and I'm, I'm sure there are thousands of people like me out there, right?

32:52Alicia RobbinsYeah.

32:52Jawad MirSo how does that, how does that work? But that's, that's the way it is.

32:56Alicia RobbinsYeah. Yeah, no, you're right. It really, it really isn't fair. I don't know how it gets fixed, though, 'cause especially if someone is able to keep moving up and getting credits, and they might only have w… like, that, I think that's a telltale sign, too. I have noticed, like, if I'm about to start working with someone and I see on their credits that they've only done one episode of something and never got asked back, and then they had another episode on something else, never got asked back, I feel like that's a little bit of a telltale sign of who you might be working with. Or it's just, I've also seen that on people's resumes, though, and then I worked with them and they were amazing. So it's kinda like, oh, they didn't get a chance to come back. But that usually, for me, is a little bit of a red flag warning when I'm about to work with someone, and then I really have to feel it out and go, "Okay, let's see how this person really works. Do they actually contribute to at least the camera side of it blocking? Like, do they understand this stuff?"

33:57Alicia RobbinsBecause if their resume's only showing one-offs of shows, then I wonder, like, okay, well, why weren't they asked back? What was it? Yeah. It's, it's so weird. It's so weird. But then you could say that, too, about some DPs. Like, you'll see DPs that have shot just two episodes here, two episodes there, and it's not always because they didn't do a good job, it's just the luck of it or the original DP came back to shoot it. So it's like you just never know.

34:28Jawad MirTrue, but I think with DP and editor and production design and other departments, there's something that can be seen visually if it's good or bad. Like, people are able to sort of ta… it's a tangible thing, right? Like, people are able to sort of get... But with directing, if the acting's, the performances are great, most of the time the director will get a credit.

34:51Alicia RobbinsYeah.

34:51Jawad MirBut sometimes it's, it's just the actors, too, right? So…

34:53Alicia RobbinsThe actors. Right. That's true. Yeah. So it, I mean, that is the thing, is 'cause, like, the director is the overarching taste maker of the whole project.

35:04Jawad MirYeah.

35:04Alicia RobbinsIf they have bad taste and don't know what they're doing, that's okay. You got actors that know what they're doing, you got DPs that know what they're doing, you've got ADs, you got all these other people that will still make it happen and work together. So yeah, that's where I think, yeah, a director can just come in and be like, "Ba, da, ba, da," phone it in, not do anything, and every… everyone cares about their job so much that they're gonna pick up the slack and…

35:31Jawad MirYeah

35:31Alicia Robbins... Make up.

35:32Jawad MirThat's true.

35:32Alicia RobbinsI feel like I'm badmouthing directors now. This is…

35:34Jawad MirNo, but I'm a director, too, so you can…

35:37Alicia RobbinsYeah.

35:37Jawad MirI'm, I'm included in that list.

35:41Alicia RobbinsI mean, unfortunately it hasn't been a lot that way. There... It, 'cause it's one thing to work with someone who is just green. Like, I actually don't mind if they're green because then I know that they're at the start of their career, they're just learning how to do it, and I don't mind facilitating that and helping. It's when they've had time to learn this part of it and haven't put more effort into trying…

36:12Alicia Robbins... To learn how to be a better director and they're still just getting, just getting by, that's when I kinda get angry about it.

36:18Jawad MirYeah. Yeah, I think that applies to everything in life. Like, if you're just kinda status quo, and then worst, on top of that, you know, you pretend to be a genius marketing director of a company but you're not, then you're just kind of BS'ing everybody and ruining everything, right?

36:33Alicia RobbinsYeah.

36:34Jawad MirSo going back to Bridgerton from gossiping, w… if you can share, you know, when you, when you're working on a film or a TV series There is the serious aspect to it of telling a story, but people always have fun too. Like, sometimes you have more fun on one production than the other because the crew that you have, the team, the actors. What was the most amount of fun i… in terms of, like, is there a story that you can share where something was supposed to be taking place in a certain way on the set, on, in front of the camera, and something unfolded, and it just created this environment of, you know, people being relaxed and chill?

37:12Alicia Robbinshuh.

37:12Jawad MirJust a fun story of Bridgerton from behind the scene perspective.

37:16Alicia RobbinsOh my gosh. I mean…

37:18Jawad MirI'm sure there are tons.

37:19Alicia RobbinsI mean, there's tons. That's the thing, is I feel like it was almost like that every single day on that set. 'Cause this is also the same crew from season three, so we all know each other really well, and we all have a very, a just a good relationship with each other, a familiarity with each other, joking, everything. Like crew, everybody, the cast loves the crew. So it almost just felt it feel, it felt kind of like a family every single day, honestly, especially in season four. And I had also relaxed into it a little bit more as well. Season three was my first time on the show, and also because I was shooting the first two episodes, I felt like I was just under a tremendous amount of pressure to stay on top of the visual style of what they had already established. And honestly, I didn't know if I could do it. I mean, I felt confident, but at the same time, it was like, "Dude, I've never shot anything like this before.

38:22Alicia RobbinsI... Can I do this?" And so going into season four, I just also felt much more relaxed, and so it just made it easier to be a little more jovial on set and just have fun with people. But, I'm just trying to think of, like, specific moments. I don't know. It's hard to say.

38:43Jawad MirOkay. Well, let me, let me…

38:44Alicia RobbinsWell, I can tell you one, I can tell you…

38:45Jawad MirSure

38:45Alicia Robbins... One thing that cra… this actually cracks up my director all the time, and now he makes fun of me about it. But apparently, I cannot hide my emotions on my face. So if someone has an idea, or if he had an idea about, like, a way that he wanted to shoot something, if I didn't care for it, immediately my face is like I make a face. And he's like, "Oh, no."

39:11Jawad MirSo you don't have a poker face.

39:13Alicia RobbinsI don't have a poker face. Or it's the best poker face because then everyone's like, "Oh, we know she doesn't have it." a… and he would be like, "Oh, no, the face, the face. Why? Why? Why didn't you like it?" I was like, "What? No, it's great." So it was just an ongoing thing now that everyone just knew if I wasn't, if I wasn't liking something, it was obvious. So…

39:32Jawad MirWell…

39:32Alicia RobbinsI can't hide it.

39:34Jawad MirNo, that's, that's, that's a good thing. I… i… in the, in the long term it's a good thing. In the short term it probably isn't, right?

39:40Alicia RobbinsI don't know.

39:40Jawad MirBut that's…

39:41Alicia RobbinsYeah

39:41Jawad Mir... That's a really good thing.

39:42Alicia RobbinsSo now he always asks me, he's like, "Okay, on your new show, are you keeping, are you doing the face?" And I was like, "I can't help it. Of course I'm doing the face." But…

39:51Jawad MirBut you know, that's health… healthy for you because you're letting your emotions out as they're supposed to come out, as opposed to…

39:56Alicia RobbinsYeah

39:56Jawad Mir... Suppressing them in.

39:57Alicia RobbinsJust keeping it in. I know. And honestly, it's like, okay, if people know that I'm not pleased with something, we're fixing it right away…

40:05Jawad MirYeah

40:05Alicia Robbins... Rather than me just going back into my little corner and letting it…

40:09Jawad MirYeah

40:09Alicia Robbins... Not be good. So, that was an ongoing joke, which was kinda funny.

40:14Jawad MirFair enough. What about pressure? You talked about pressure, and that's like, on any production, there's always…

40:21Alicia RobbinsYeah

40:21Jawad Mir... I mean, there's a... The biggest pressure is the deadline, right? Like, the number of days are we behind the shoot days, this and that.

40:27Alicia RobbinsYeah.

40:27Jawad MirBut just not specifically talking about any kind of story, but more so how do you deal with pressure on the set as it things? Because things are s… going on at a rapid speed and you're supposed to come up with solutions instantaneously, and also think about tomorrow and how is that gonna go out, et cetera, et cetera. So how do you d… cope with that, if there's a method that you have sort of going through that?

40:50Alicia RobbinsOne of the things that I've adopted is truly taking my weekends off. I think that helps a lot. I d… I don't think that everyone does that. I feel like if they can get a little ahead or they do some work on the weekend, then they try to g… do that. It... But I'm also able just to shut down the thoughts of work on the weekend. I make sure that I have good meals. I go out, I go to movies, I meet up with friends. Like, I just shut work out so at least I have a full two day of decompression, and then that way when I go back in on Monday, I can totally get through five days of pressure. And it's also just one of those things of, I think the more and more I'm shooting, you start realizing that somehow or another everything will get solved in some shape or form. And so there's really no reason to get…

41:52Jawad MirStressed out

41:52Alicia Robbins... In a tizzy about it…

41:53Jawad MirYeah

41:53Alicia Robbins... Because you will figure it out, or that scene is gonna get punted because we couldn't figure it out, or we ran out of time.

42:01Jawad MirYeah.

42:01Alicia RobbinsSo some way or another it always gets resolved. And so if you can kinda put yourself in that future tense of knowing that it will be solved, that helps me actually relax in the moment as well. Yeah, I've just... I think I've become much more chill over the years. I've always been kind of a chill person anyway, though, but I do know over the last, like, five to eight years, I've gotten even more chill.

42:31Jawad MirSure.

42:31Alicia RobbinsSo…

42:33Jawad MirBut the question is, how do you take your weekends off, especially in ind… in this industry? Because you could have a shoot day on a Saturday or a Sunday because of permits or because it's cheaper to shoot that day, or availability of actors.

42:49Alicia RobbinsBelieve it or not, that's become more and more rare. Because of different union rules, the turnarounds, and all that kind of stuff. So, I haven't actually had to work on a Saturday in a while. I did work on a Saturday sometimes for episodes seven and eight just because we are up against it, with getting scripts and then needing to really block out these big scenes that I was telling you about. So once in a while Anya and I would meet on a Saturday. But we always made that pleasant too. She was like, "Come over. I'll get pastries. We'll have coffee and pastries."

43:23Jawad MirLove it.

43:23Alicia RobbinsSo we just, we made it enjoyable.

43:25Jawad MirSure.

43:25Alicia RobbinsAnd we'd spread out with our computers and whatever and, it, and so it was actually kind of fun. So we just, we made it fun. So I didn't mind doing Saturday work when we're enjoying it. Yeah, but no, you are right. Like, some shows you do have to do a Saturday, but I haven't had a Saturday in a long time, so.

43:47Jawad MirYou know, that's…

43:48Alicia RobbinsYeah

43:48Jawad Mir... Ku… kudos to you because, a lot of people, and I'm guilty of that too, like I'm working every day. Not just production, but, you know, planning or, you know…

44:00Alicia RobbinsYeah

44:00Jawad Mir... The administrative part or it was... And I just cannot imagine doing anything else. Yes, you know, there's family life. You kind of figure a way out to pivot through those things here and there. But it just, it's just become such a deep part of at least my life that…

44:15Jawad Mir... I can't figure out how to sort of disconnect from that from the weekend. I mean, if we're on a vacation, yeah, I can do that, right? Like if we're go…

44:22Alicia RobbinsYeah

44:22Jawad Mir... But if you're home, it's hard.

44:25Alicia RobbinsOh, interesting.

44:26Jawad MirBut kudos to you.

44:27Alicia RobbinsYeah.

44:27Jawad MirKudos to you.

44:27Alicia RobbinsI mean, I, it definitely became easier over the years. B… because I do have actually a lot of other interests outside of filmmaking, so I think that's probably what makes it a little bit easier. Whereas like my husband, for instance, he has a hard dis… dis… from disconnecting 'cause he loves his work so much.

44:46Jawad MirThat's, that's my problem too. That's my problem.

44:48Alicia RobbinsI mean, he's at his office right now doing some tinkering that he wanted to get done because he's like, "Oh, yay, I have a few hours on a Sunday to do it." I'm like, "Ugh, you could just chill. You could go for a walk." I mean.

45:01Jawad MirI wonder, I wonder... I'm not trying to sort of make generalization. I wonder if it has to do anything with being a man versus a woman.

45:08Alicia RobbinsMaybe.

45:09Jawad Mir'Cause…

45:10Alicia RobbinsYeah

45:10Jawad Mir... Right? Like…

45:11Alicia RobbinsI don't, yeah, I don't know

45:11Jawad Mir... Not, 'cause women are more social creatures I think overall. Like, they like…

45:16Alicia RobbinsYeah

45:16Jawad Mir... To hang out with friends and do different things and hobbies. Speaking of hobbies, what are your hobbies that you do besides this, besides your work?

45:22Alicia RobbinsI mean, I love hiking. I love camping. I am a musician. I haven't been practicing as much as I should be. I do play piano. But mostly it's just outdoor activities. Like, if I can be outside on a mountain somewhere going on a hike, then I'm very happy. If I do have a long weekend, like a three-day weekend, my husband and I actually have a towable camper, and so we try to get it out and go camping. And, yeah, anything that gets me in trees and up on a trail somewhere I'm really happy. I…

45:54Jawad MirDo you go to…

45:55Alicia RobbinsI mean, look at, I mean, even my background, I've got, like, trees up there.

45:59Jawad MirI was gonna ask you, is, so you go to Yosemite or Joshua National Tree Park?

46:05Alicia RobbinsI haven't been to Joshua in a while. Yosemite I love. I actually haven't been there in a while either. That one's a little bit tougher to get to on a quick weekend.

46:13Jawad MirYeah, it's a little farther.

46:14Alicia RobbinsSo usually for, like a weekend trip it'll be Big Bear or Arrowhead. Sometimes some of the mountain ranges just out of San… outside of San Diego are actually really nice. That's what I did over Thanksgiving. Yeah, I mean, anything that... Even Sycamore Canyon, which is just up in Malibu, is amazing.

46:31Jawad MirYeah.

46:31Alicia RobbinsTo just go for a night just to check out. Like, that's the thing too is I feel like it's a little bit of a technology, checkout as well. Like, I'll still have my phone and stuff, but for the most part I'm not really paying attention to that. And when we go camping my husband can also turn it off, so that's another reason why I love it so much is 'cause it's a place where both of us can just shut it down, not even be thinking about work and technology, and just look at the trees and the environment. And I just feel like it's a reset. It's a reset for my brain. And so, getting into that habit of trying to take weekends off was not just because I enjoy it, but it's also because I need my brain to work at very high levels Monday through Friday. And I've had people tell me before that they think my energy level is just insane, like just how much I can just be on it all day long and not falter, and I know that's because I take that time to let my brain reset itself.

47:36Alicia RobbinsSo it's a, it's a health thing as well.

47:40Jawad MirYeah. No, that's, that's fantastic. I really appreciate that you do that. And nature is something that is one of the most beautiful things that you can do, ev… whether you're shooting in it. I mean, that's what I would do. Like, if I'm in nature I'm like, "Okay, I gotta shoot," right? I gotta, I gotta…... I got, I gotta got some great shot. I was actually in,.. I've been traveling to LA so much the last two years, and the first time I took my family and went to Yosemite and Joshua.

48:05Alicia RobbinsOh, yeah.

48:05Jawad MirAnd it was such a amazing experience, especially in Joshua, because you could see the stars…

48:11Alicia RobbinsOh

48:11Jawad Mir... At night, and you're disconnected.

48:12Alicia RobbinsYeah.

48:13Jawad MirAnd the signal barely works in some parts, so you're not…

48:15Alicia RobbinsYeah

48:15Jawad Mir... Even if you want to be.

48:17Alicia RobbinsYes.

48:17Jawad MirOh, man. It's, and it's close to LA. It's, like, what? Two hours, two and a half hours away, so.

48:21Alicia RobbinsYeah, two hours. So easy to get to.

48:23Jawad MirYeah.

48:23Alicia RobbinsYeah. Joshua Tree is gorgeous.

48:25Jawad MirYeah.

48:25Alicia RobbinsI love it out there. And you have to go at the right time too, though, 'cause, like, summer can be brutal. And then i… as you get into the winter months it'll snow out there, so it can be really cold. If you're camping you gotta really go at the right time.

48:37Jawad MirYeah, we were there just two days before Christmas, actually, and it was…

48:40Alicia RobbinsReally?

48:40Jawad Mir... It was just, it was just chilly. It was, like, a little spring jacket.

48:43Alicia RobbinsOh. Yeah.

48:44Jawad MirAnd…

48:44Alicia RobbinsYou can get snow in November out there sometimes, so it's, yeah, you have to be ready to…

48:49Jawad MirIt…

48:49Alicia Robbins... Bundle up

48:49Jawad Mir... It did, it did in Yosemite. It was cold in Yosemite…

48:52Alicia RobbinsYeah

48:52Jawad Mir... For sure 'cause it's a little bit up north. But anyways, one last question. What's… One thing that y… we always learn something about ourselves, I believe, every single day in a small way or a big way. What's one thing that you've learned about yourself working on Bridgerton, whether it was last season, this season, or both seasons? Just your own personal self. Nothing to do with the show or Hollywood or TV or movies.

49:18Alicia RobbinsOh, man. Oh, that's a tough one.

49:23Jawad MirWell, I saved the best one for the last for you.

49:25Alicia RobbinsI know. That's a tough one. I mean, I think part of working on Bridgerton, 'cause I was in London all the time, it made me realize that I wanted to be home more. 'Cause it's very hard to be away for that long. I'd be gone for seven months with maybe a little break in the middle. But, yeah, being home more was more important to me. And then so that kind of made me also realize that, yes, I am ambitious, I do wanna shoot beautiful content, I wanna work on big projects, but sometimes me being home may take priority over what I choose. And I thought that was never gonna be me, especially in my 30s and stuff. I was real… I'd tell my husband, I was like, "You better be ready. I might be in, like, Budapest for years, and you're gonna have to visit." Da. And now it's kinda like, ugh, I don't, I don't know.

50:25Alicia RobbinsI'm not sure. I'd have to really think hard about it. It wouldn't be like a, "Oh, yeah, definitely. It, I'm there." I have to think really hard about it and know, and understand what it is that I'm compromising. I mean, that is years away from being with my family and being with my husband. I don't have kids or anything either, but, like, my husband and I are very close, very close, and he's my best friend and I love spending time with him, and so being away from him is not great.

50:55Jawad MirWell, I, that's awesome. And but I would say sometimes being away brings you closer than being cl… right next to each other.

51:06Alicia RobbinsNo.

51:07Jawad MirSo, no? You don't think so?

51:09Alicia RobbinsNot, no, not... I mean, I would miss him terribly, yeah. But

51:14Jawad MirNo, what I mean, if you were, if you were seeing him every single day, which is the normal thing to do for married couples more or less, would you appreci… would you look back at home the same way as you probably do now being away seven months? I'm not saying that's a better option. I'm just wondering in general.

51:31Alicia RobbinsWe're weird. We like spending every day together.

51:35Jawad MirThat's awesome.

51:36Alicia RobbinsLike, we realized that, during COVID was some of our happiest times 'cause we're together every single day.

51:44Jawad MirSo that must be, so that must be really hard for you guys. I mean, everybody wants to be together with each other all the time, right? But…

51:50Alicia RobbinsYeah.

51:51Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

51:52Alicia RobbinsI know. It's just funny. Like, I didn't realize that until doing two seasons of Bridgerton where I was being, where I was being gone for seven months o… on end, and I was like, wow, this is, this is really hard. This is very difficult. I'm not sure if I can do my whole career like this. Like, I'm gonna have to be really strategic about being home for a job, and then maybe the next job is away. I mean, honestly, that's actually one of the reasons why I'm working here now. I'm lucky that I was able to land a show in Los Angeles.

52:23Jawad MirYeah.

52:23Alicia RobbinsAnd the plus side to that, too, is now I get to be home for a little while.

52:28Jawad MirGood

52:28Alicia Robbins... So going, trying to go back and forth, I think, is gonna be important to me. And yeah, that was a new thing that I learned from doing the two seasons of Bridgerton. As much as I loved shooting that show, it was hard being away from home.

52:42Jawad MirYeah. Thank you so much. Enjoy your time on the weekend, and give my regards to your husband.

52:46Alicia RobbinsI will. Thank you. Good to see you.

52:48Jawad MirTake care. Likewise. Bye-bye.

52:58Alicia RobbinsAll right. Bye.