'Spiderman Brand New Day', Editor, Harry Yoon

0:00Jawad MirThe part that stood out for me the most, my favorite moment in the film, when, Peter Parker is taking MJ back to the city. There's only two shots, close-up of Peter Parker/Spider-Man from the front, and then close-up of MJ. That was a very powerful shot in itself for me, and it conveyed a lot of emotion.

0:20Harry YoonI love that you noticed that because that's actually one of Destin's favorite shots, too. First, it's so hard to do because…

0:27Jawad MirI bet

0:27Harry Yoon... It's, like, one of those shots that should be impossible.

0:30Jawad MirWhat did you learn about yourself working on Spider-Man: A Brand New Day?

0:34Harry YoonIt was a conversation that we had in which he took me aside. He said, like, "When you are sarcastic or when you roll your eyes, I don't like it when you put other people down in the course of a meeting. I'd love for you to encourage other people in the course of a meeting rather than discourage people."

0:54Harry Yoon"And I wanna understand better why you do that."

1:08Jawad MirYou must be excited with what's going on with Spider-Man. I mean, obv…

1:12Harry YoonIt's fantastic. Super fun, yeah.

1:15Jawad MirObviously you're not getting back-end dollars, but still, it's doing well…... So that's awesome.

1:20Harry YoonLook, I... Look, for me, I think the thing that's most exciting and the th… and what made me so, it made me so emotional while, you know, even while we were watching a lot of the audience test screenings, was just the prospect of, the audience feeling this sense of, you know, so many of us, you know, especially after COVID, just feeling this sense like that so many of us, have this kind of like pent-up sense of isolation and, feeling a little bit alone, you know? And that's what a lot of the characters are feeling in this film, and the fact that there are, there's a storyline where they're, kind of, are able to kind of help each other and to help each other feel seen. And, you know, in the midst of all of this action and all of this spectacle, that there is this human connection that's going on and there's character to character that they're able to help each other feel seen and helping each other through that, and that's what audiences are responding to.

2:42Harry YoonLike, to me, that is what's the… ... The biggest reward, you know? And to hear people responding to that aspect of the film, that to me is, like, the best reward. You know? That to me is... And I, and I know, and I know because I know in talking with, Destin and the other filmmakers that's what everybody's most excited about. So, yeah.

3:06Jawad MirYeah.

3:07Harry YoonAnyway.

3:07Jawad MirIt's…

3:07Harry YoonSo, yeah.

3:08Jawad MirNo, that's a great…... Point that you mentioned because…

3:11Harry YoonYeah

3:11Jawad Mir... So I, even before COVID, so I, you know, I think you and I are in a similar sort of age, I'm guessing.

3:17Harry YoonYeah.

3:17Jawad MirAnd, you know, growing up, you go to movie theaters, you watch movies, you know, in the '90s, early 2000s. I somehow kinda got disconnected from sharing an experience of an, with an audience, especially after…

3:29Jawad Mir... Smartphones came in.

3:31Harry YoonYeah.

3:32Jawad Mir'Cause I've, you know, people are looking at their screens and stuff, and I made a very bold decision that I need to start watching movies as empty of a cinema as possible because I could not take the distraction.

3:46Jawad MirAnd this is even before COVID. So yesterday, I went to see Spider-Man: Brand New Day. And I walk in, and it's packed. Right? Like, it's, like, packed.

3:58Harry YoonRight?

3:58Jawad MirSo I'm like, "Okay, here we go."

3:59Harry YoonYeah.

3:59Jawad MirSo I, you know, I get my seat, and there are people with their phones, but I was really glad that I did go see it with an audience packed because it wasn't even... You know, normally in a film like this, people would cheer, like, on really action sequences or, like, you know, that little witty humor. But in this one, it was very different.

4:21Jawad MirI think people were very much more emotionally involved. 'Cause I didn't, I didn't get, hear any of that, you know, like, those, "Woo," like, you know…

4:31Harry YoonYeah

4:31Jawad Mir... Kind of cheering for the characters. But it was, it was really well-received, and I enjoyed… ... The fact that it was, A, longer than your usual two hours because normally… ... Studios, you know, would cut it down because more theater, more money and all that. But and I'm really glad that your dramatic sequences played out much longer…

4:52Jawad Mir... Than action sequences. Normally it's the other way around. So really appreciated that. That's just sort of, you know, I wanted to put that out there to you, that it was really well done, and I really enjoyed it.

5:06Harry YoonI'm so glad. I'm so glad that you noticed that, 'cause I think that's what people are surprised by. I think, people are surprised by how emotionally complex and how emotionally engaging the film is. And I think that's the word that people, friends and family and audiences when they talk with me about the film, that they're, that's what they're struck by. That's the first word they lead with. They say, "Oh, I'm surprised by how emotional the film was," you know, and how emotional they feel, when they come out of there. And what I love, I see so many people, emulating the end title sequence, and I think it's because there's a reservoir of…... Feeling that they have, not just because it reminds them of their love of the city or their particular city, but because we're encouraging our audience to kind of sit with, that emotion for a little while.

6:22Harry YoonBecause I think often, an end title sequence has an impact of saying, "Okay, well, the movie's done, and here's something to kind of like, here's a confection to kind of delight you," to say like, "Okay, well, wasn't that fun? And here's something else delightful to kind of like sweep you into the next thing." And it's almost like a palate cleanser at the end of the film, right? That's delightful and fun and inventive, and it sort of like wipes your mind into the next thing. But I think what's wonderful about this, because it's so slice of life, it doesn't take you into a superhero realm. The main title sequence says, "No, let's sit and hold a mirror up to you. Let's hold a mirror up to, everyday life and make you sort of think about your life and about your family and about the everyday people around you."

7:25Harry YoonBecause, what you're feeling is very real, and it's very grounded, and it's about the human connections that you have, and about how intimate and how important those things are. And let's sort of sit, and let's kind of, let's sit in that feeling for a little while. And I think that it's no accident that so many of the videos that I'm seeing online are people celebrating that, and making videos, so many videos about New York and so many vi… and I'm seeing videos about Taipei and about Rio and about like so many of these cities because, like, people are celebrating, like, everyday life and how glorious it is to find, beauty in the mundane. You know? Like everyday life, and you don't have to be a superhero to see beauty in the mundane.

8:30Harry YoonAnd I think, like, that's,.. I mean, it just feels like everybody gets the assignment in that way.

8:38Jawad MirAnd, you know, I… I'll, I'll disclaimer, I'm not a superhero fan, period. Like, I'm... I… I… I'll just…

8:45Harry YoonYeah. Yeah

8:45Jawad Mir... And just be…

8:46Harry YoonYeah.

8:46Jawad MirSo the movies that I really loved, first Batman, the second Batman… ... By Tim Burton. The first two Super… Superman. The first two Spider-Man by Sam Raimi. Actually had… ... Don Burgess, the DP of that on the podcast.

9:01Jawad MirAnd, the Batman trilogy by Christopher Nolan.

9:04Harry YoonOkay.

9:05Jawad MirThose films, to me, were way more human. And then nothing a… nothing against, you know, Marvel franchise. I haven't been able to resonate with anything else because they're very… ... Visual effects based, extreme.

9:18Jawad MirLike, even the trailer for Avengers before Spider-Man, I just, I just sort of zoned out, right? But with Spider-Man… But with... But this film, it di… wasn't a superhero movie for me… ... And neither was the Christopher Nolan Batman trilogy.

9:30Harry YoonYeah.

9:32Jawad MirIt's, it is not a Spider-Man movie the way I see it. It's just about story about a Peter Parker trying to win… ... Back his love and his friend… ... And all the other stuff that happens in between. So just to, just to kinda say that's one thing that I loved about it because it was less of a superhero, maybe not even a superhero movie for me as an audience.

9:53Harry YoonWell, a… and I think that's kind of how Destin approached the story. I think that's how Destin approaches so many of his stories is very much at the level of human experience. I mean, if you look at, the way he tells stories and the stories that he's attracted to, I mean, you look at, like, how amazing a film, you know, is Short Term 12, you know…

10:22Harry Yoon... Or Just Mercy, you know, or Glass Castle or you look at, like, it's so much about these, like, really deep human stories of, especially of people living on the margins. And but, you know, on the margins i… is where you find these really people who, you know, you find these really intimate connections and, you know, people who you normally don't hear from. And, you know, I think, you really see that level of intimacy and that, you know, you really s… he really loves kind of like focusing in on, people who normally don't have a voice and people who don't normally get to, that we normally don't focus on. And I think he pays attention to all those little details, and I think that ground-level lens that he brings is exactly what he brought to, this character.

11:36Harry YoonAnd I think because he pays attention to all those little details, this movie feels intimate.

11:45Jawad MirIt is.

11:45Harry YoonAnd that contrast between that level of personal intimacy and the scale of what you normally get from, you know, this kind of filmmaking is one of the things that I think makes it so fun. Like, you have… You can play with scale, you know, at a city level and, you know, with, like, the scale of, like, you know, action, of cars blowing up and ninjas fighting. But then you get to the level of, like, a whispered conversation between people who, you know, who have so much at stake, you know, in, you know, explaining, like, why, you know, this kind of love isn't possible or, you know, friends who are trying to reconnect, you know, over, like, just playing Legos together, you know? I mean, the fact that, like, he understands, like, how those quiet moments work, as well as how these big moments work, I mean, it's, it's just so fun to see that kind of contrast and to feel that contrast.

12:53Harry YoonAnd those contrasts, I think, are what make this movie so much fun, that he can operate at both those levels. So yeah.

13:01Jawad MirAmazing.

13:02Harry YoonYeah.

13:02Jawad MirLet me… ... Let me kinda jump…

13:03Harry YoonYeah

13:03Jawad Mir... Into the film now. So, you know, there are some great action sequences that are super… ... Fast and super slow motion…

13:10Harry YoonYeah

13:10Jawad Mir... Which…

13:11Harry YoonYeah

13:11Jawad Mir... Which I read were some of the super slow motion shots were actually taken from comic books… ... The imagery of them.

13:17Harry YoonYeah.

13:18Jawad MirBut to me, among everything, you know, it kinda goes, comes back to that human element. He's going through between buildings in the beginning of the film, in the, you know, end of the film, middle of the film, all this stuff is happening. The part that stood out for me the most, my favorite moment in the film…... Is w… when he's retake... When, Peter Parker is taking MJ back to the city.

13:43Jawad MirAnd this, th… th… there's only two shots, close-up of Peter Parker/Spider-Man from the front, and then close-up of MJ, and the, you know, camera keeps swiveling like this. That, talk to me about that because that was a very powerful shot in itself for me, and it conveyed a lot of emotion. What was, what was the conversation behind putting that, bringing that to the screen?

14:09Harry YoonI love that you noticed that because that's actually one of Destin's favorite shots too because… ... It's first, it's so hard to do because…

14:22Jawad MirI bet

14:22Harry Yoon... It's, like, one of those shots that should be impossible. Like, first, it's kind of an impossible shot to shoot because, like, you shouldn't be able to get a performance, you know, in that, at that angle, right? Like, it's one of those shots that sort of defies... Like, y… you shouldn't be able to shoot a performance from an actor as she's swinging through the air, especially a performance as nuanced as what Zendaya's giving us in that moment.

14:57Jawad MirYeah.

14:57Harry YoonAnd so we, so there's, there's a logistical issue in that, like, you know you want to be close enough and the shot to be stable enough to be able to read such a complex emotion after she's delivered this devastating line, you know, to this person that is, of course, it's the truth. Like, you, y… she can't say anything else because that would be untrue, you know? And she is somebody with integrity. She can't lie about, you know, the situation. Yet, at the same time, there has to be some misgiving given, you know, what a good person clearly this person is. And so, a… and so, like, the way they shot it has to be on a stable platform against green screen, yet at the same time, we have to have enough art of VFX with shake and with movement and with, you know, really beautiful, you know, VFX supervisors, you know, with CG backgrounds and with, you know, a model of New York that they're working with and, you know, with, you know, every trick in the book to give it a sense of, movement to make it very convincingly that they're moving through the air, as well as our colorist doing every trick that he can to give you a sense that the play of light across their bodies, you know, is not, you know, i… i… is g… is them moving through a city.

16:50Harry YoonAnd so there's amazing tricks that Tom Poole is doing to give you a sense of movement through a… and finding that tension between making it convincing that they're moving through a city so that you don't have a sense of the artifice of it all, yet not, yet not, doing it so much that you're masking the incredibly…

17:14Harry Yoon... Nuanced performance that Zendaya's giving you. And of course from an editorial standpoint, and from a storytell… storytelling p… standpoint, finding that balance of just enough and no more of saying, like, "We don't wanna linger too long on it so that, so that we give you j… just that sort of like delicious amount of, like, of intrigue." At every point in that to say, like, there has to be just that, just the right amount of, like, intrigue to be like she delivered what she had to say, yet there has to be enough to motivate the ask that comes afterward to be like, "Do you wanna come up and say hi to Ned?" Like…

18:04Jawad MirYeah

18:04Harry Yoon... Each piece of that has to be to keep the integrity of what she said… Without it being tipping over into too much to maintain, like, both of their integrity. Like, she can't be in love because it's true what she said, and he can't be... And so that's the tension, that's the beautiful tension that we have to maintain through both of those things. And I love that, like... And I think that's what makes that moment so amazing, is that it's what has to happen and what can't happen. And what has to feel true both from a verisimilitude standpoint and, what, a… and a recre… a… from a visual effects standpoint, as well as an emotional truth standpoint in that moment. And we worked really hard to get all of those different factors right.

19:06Harry YoonSo yeah, thank you so much for noticing that, 'cause that's definitely one of Destin's favorite moments because of everything that went into that shot. Yeah.

19:15Jawad MirI mean, you know…

19:16Harry YoonYeah

19:16Jawad Mir... As an audience member, when you're watching it…

19:17Harry YoonYeah

19:18Jawad Mir... It's like, you know, two shots, okay, you're done with it. But, you know, there's obviously a set color, VFX, sound…

19:24Harry YoonYeah. Yes

19:24Jawad Mir... And, right? All that stuff. And you can even hear the air as they're do…

19:29Harry YoonYes

19:29Jawad Mir... Swinging through the frame there.

19:30Harry YoonSound design and everything.

19:31Jawad MirYeah.

19:31Harry YoonIt's, like, so... It's that... The something as so simple as that shot is every single department having to do their utmost to get that to feel correct. Something as simple as that particular shot has to be every department doing their utmost. And, when something like that works is when you feel like, okay, like, it's something... When it feels seamless, when it feels elegant, when you can capture performance, that feels natural like that and that feels, like, when something feels emotional and integrated like that is I think when you feel like, okay, like, that's, that's what you dream about. You know? That's what you want. Yeah. And I think that's, that's true of, like, not just of a moment like that, but that, I think that's true of, like, action too.

20:33Harry YoonI mean, that's what's true of, like, I think, like, y… w… we were talking earlier about, like, superhero movies, like, or any kind of action, is what you want in action is for it to feel driven by emotion or by narrative purpose.

20:51Harry YoonAnd I think that's so much of what motivated, our editorial, decisions, in this movie is so much of, especially towards the end, like, for example, in the battle with, the ninjas, of the hand, the choreography that Peng, our, incredible choreographer who had worked with Jackie Chan's team, like, came up with for those ninjas is, like, mind-blowing. It's beautiful. There are so many aspects of that fight that we had to leave on the cutting room floor, because, there, because it, because there was a macro level of narrative purpose that we felt like it ultimately didn't serve at a certain point.

21:58Harry YoonEverything that was there served the larger narrative purpose. Everything that was shot in the micro works because it serves a micro narrative purpose. So, like, when you... Like, for example, a very simple example of what I'm talking about is, like, the, when as soon as he gets there, we make it very clear he has to get to the door. So everything that you see him do is the ninjas frustrating his effort to get to the door.

22:37Harry YoonAnd I think that's, that's the nature of, like, good action, is, like, narrative purpose, I have to get to the door. How does that purpose get frustrated? Like…

22:48Jawad MirRight

22:48Harry Yoon... It's trying to get to the door by walking on this, like, sideways across the fence, or trying to get to the door by, you know, flipping upside down to get to this way, or by pulling the door, or by pushing the door, or, like, et cetera. Like, every beat is the, is about the illustration of purpose and the complication of purpose. And if things take too long or if things, or if the complication doesn't delight in some way, like, and we f… And we're always sort of measuring that tension in the micro. And then we're also then gauging it over the course of iterations, like over cuts in the macro, as we're sort of, like, gauging, like, how does this sit within the larger sequence? How does it sit within the larger movie? Then we sort of lift it. We tighten it. And so that's, a… as precious as it is, as beautiful as it is, as amazing as the action is, again, it's all serving that larger sense of purpose.

23:55Harry YoonIt's all serving that larger sense of narrative and of character, et cetera. And I think, like, that's what's, always driving, good action. And I think that's, that's, I think when you see good action and when you see good, a great action sequence, one that really delights you, it's always at the, at, in service of that, in service of narrative purpose and in service of character purpose. And I think that's, that's something that Destin always kept in mind, and I think that's one of the reasons why people enjoy the action of this film. I wish I could show you some of the stuff that

24:39Jawad MirMan, I would love to see it

24:40Harry Yoon... We had to cut out, but... Yeah. But I think, but, yeah, but I think that's, that's what ultimately is the litmus test for why we choose to tighten or lift the things that we do. Yeah.

24:56Jawad MirNo, it was, it was… ... It was remarkable, man, the way it was executed. Let me ask you this. So, you know, there is…

25:02Harry YoonYeah

25:02Jawad Mir... Clearly, whether it's on the set or in post-production… ... It's a collaborative effort. There's always challenges. There's always trying to figure out how to go about doing things. What was a sequence that gave a lot of challenge…

25:19Jawad Mir... As... You know, not necessarily, okay, you know, should I splice here or should I splice there… ... But more so in the grand scheme of things, of the story, of how it's pers… serving the story itself.

25:30Harry YoonYeah.

25:30Jawad MirIf there was something that you can talk about, I would love to hear that.

25:34Harry YoonSure. Definitely one thing that comes to mind was trying to convey how emotionally impactful the knowledge of what happened to Sara, Jean's sister, was… ... To Jean so that it led to this transformation in her mind, that leads to this kind of inflection point after she discovers what Vmax is.

26:28Harry YoonAnd that leads to a kind of explosion of her powers, and that all has to happen in the containment scene. And so much of that is about, leading to a moment of significance. So how do you convey significance? How do you convey an inflection point? How do you convey something momentous? And so much of that was, it's about build-up and contrast.

27:08Harry YoonSo you can, you can convey build... A… and how do you sort of convey mental overload? How do you convey when something hits somebody as something as being emotionally impactful, and then, and how do you do that editorially? And I think getting to that was one of the biggest challenges, within, that, containment center sequence. And, I think, ha… I think what really helped was to try to think of it almost on musical terms.

27:52Harry YoonAnd one of the things, one of the breakthroughs really was,.. There were two things. There were two models that kinda came into my head. One was, I don't know if, like, you know th… this book, like, by Scott McCloud who, is, like, an amazing, writer about, like, comic books. And…

28:15Jawad MirOkay

28:15Harry Yoon... I think he, like, I think he wrote a book, like, about comics or something like that, and he wrote a book about how comics work as a comic book, as a graphic novel. And he... I think there was a certain section where he talked about how you can use panels in a way and talk about how you can create denser and denser panels, and at a certain point, you can take all of that away and then have, like, a panel with nothing in it. And then he just had a empty panel with just himself, like, 'cause he, h… he's a character. As a narrator, he's a character, and it was just a single panel with just him, just at the center. And he talked about, like, how if you do that, like, that absence creates significance. And I just remember that so clearly about how, like, density and then the contrast of absence creates a sense of, like, significance.

29:25Jawad MirIt's... Wow.

29:25Harry YoonAnd then... Yeah. And then, and then it reminded me also of, like, when I was young, I was in, like, a show choir and, like, I would sing in the show choir, and we would do tours and stuff like that. And, like, one of the things we sang in that show choir was, Mozart's Requiem. And I don't know if you remember in Mozart's Requiem, like, in Amadeus, like, there's that section, like, the Confutatis section, like, where it's like…

30:00Jawad MirRight

30:00Harry Yoon... Like all the basses are like, "Confutatis, maledictis." And it's, like, this big, like, big, like, really loud section, and then, like, right after the basses go like...... And then right after, like, there's this really piano section where, like, the sopranos all of a sudden go like

30:27Harry YoonAnd it's like this really soft, beautiful section, like, right afterwards, and it's so, like, emotional. And like, and like, I just remember, like, always, like, how moving that was, right? Like this, like s… the contrast between, like, the super loud and then this, like, really beautiful, like mournful, like soft voice, right? And I was, like, thinking, like, what if... 'Cause I was just thinking of, like Jean's like this little girl. Like, underneath all of it, like she's this little girl, right? And I was just wondering, like, what if, like, at some point, like there's all this noise, and there's all this, like, light, and all this craziness going around her, what if at some point, at the height of all of it, all of it just went away?

31:31Harry YoonAnd it's just like bokame. And the only thing that you hear is, like, nothing, and it's just blank, and it's just replaced with something you don't know what it is, right? But what it is, and what it turns out to be is this, like, stupid air conditioner you know?

32:01Jawad MirYeah.

32:02Harry YoonAnd…

32:02Jawad MirYeah

32:02Harry Yoon... That air conditioner ends up being, like, the answer to this mystery, and how freaking absurd that would be, right? Like, and how that would be, like, this, like, crazy break, you know? And I was just, like, thinking, like, what would that do to you? And then how do we then restart, how do we then, like, restart that? And I think thinking about it that way, and then, like, and then I found this, like, amazing, like, outtake of, Sarah before, this shot where she sort of like walks forward, you know, in a, in another shot. And I was like, "Oh," like, "That's like a way of saying almost like the ghost of her sister," right?

33:03Harry YoonSort of finding her and calling out to her. And I was like, "Okay, well, that might be a perfect way to introduce that silence." And that was a way of, like, starting that moment, and then we sort of introduced layers of, like, i… you know, working with Destin to think of how do we show that working inside her brain. And then we started talking about brain activity, and blah. And so, like, we started building layer upon layer upon layer, of ways of introducing that until then we rebuilt a crescendo of, like, sound from there. And so it built up to that moment. But so much of that sequence started from that contrast between noise and silence. Once we figured that out, it was very much about calibrating how do we sort of, how do we then sort of build up to that and rebuild from that?

34:09Harry YoonAnd I think that then we sort of found, how to crack that sequence. So, yeah.

34:14Jawad MirAnd I'm glad you talked about the contrast, right? Because in real life as well as in other films when there is scenes…

34:21Harry YoonYeah

34:21Jawad Mir... Of somebody really losing it, right? Like, you're screaming and yelling…

34:25Harry YoonYeah

34:25Jawad Mir... And you're angry.

34:27Harry YoonYeah.

34:27Jawad MirEventually, that leads into either a sense of, a form of tears… ... Or like, you know, just, you just kinda like just sh, all the air goes out. And I think that is very true in music when you, when you talk about classical music. Like, I'm a big listener…

34:45Jawad Mir... Of, movie scores, right? Like that's… ... The majority of the music that I listen to. And there is, there is that stark in contrast in some of them. Like, you'll have these loud Pirates of the Caribbean type music, and then there'll be like, you know?

34:58Jawad MirIt just really…

35:01Harry YoonYeah

35:01Jawad Mir... Resonates with the audiences without them…

35:03Harry YoonYeah

35:03Jawad Mir... Realizing.

35:04Harry YoonYeah. Contrast is everything, you know?

35:07Jawad MirContrast is everything.

35:08Harry YoonAnd it b… 'cause it asks it asks such a great question 'cause it creates mystery, and I think, I think that's where... And it creates the drama, you know? It creates such drama, and I think, that's what I think. And I think, I think for Jean especially, we kept doing that. You know, I think we kept, like, we kept doing that, especially, like especially after that huge explosion. It was so lovely, you know, when Michael Giacchino was able to then sort of create that beautiful mournful score after that huge explosion happens, then we go into that, like, super quiet, like mournful tune where everything's hushed, right?

36:03Jawad MirYeah.

36:03Harry YoonAnd I love that moment. I love that moment where, like… Everyone's frozen, and then Spider-Man's walking into this, like, hushed moment where Jean is able to mourn her sister again. Like, I love those contrasts in our movie. I love those, like, moments where, like, we're loud and then we're soft, we're loud and then we're soft, and I just... I feel like that's what those dynamics are what I think make our movie feel consistently interesting, consistently surprising, and I just feel like that's what, that's what keeps audiences on their seats.

36:40Jawad MirI agree

36:41Harry Yoon... On the edges of their seats. Yeah. Yeah.

36:43Jawad MirA 100%. On speaking of contrasts, I mean, Frank's character…

36:48Harry YoonYeah

36:48Jawad Mir... And Peter's character, right? Like, throughout the film, there is that contrast.

36:52Harry YoonYeah.

36:52Jawad MirYou know? And they're really close buddies in real life, and which kind of…

36:55Harry YoonYeah

36:55Jawad Mir... Comes in, into play…

36:57Harry YoonYeah

36:57Jawad Mir... In the finale without me talking about what that was.

37:00Harry YoonYeah.

37:01Jawad MirAnd there is that little moment which I think, to me, was a second favorite moment. It was a very human moment between them, right? When they're… ... In that, in that room, and that seemed extremely, genuine. Like, it just…

37:16Jawad Mir... Felt, it was so real as if…

37:19Harry YoonYeah

37:19Jawad Mir... And this is not to take away anything from their performances or the direction, but they actually freaking felt it. Like, you could see it…

37:26Harry YoonYeah

37:26Jawad Mir... On their faces. And then sort of what of, whatever followed up after that, you know, the whole sequence, I thought the, from the editing standpoint, it wasn't dragged out too much, which I was… ... Really glad. It was like a one shot here…

37:38Jawad Mir... One shot there.

37:40Harry YoonYeah.

37:40Jawad MirEnough to understand and register in the brain, and we move on. It was brilliantly done.

37:46Harry YoonYeah, and I, you know, all credit to Destin, too, is, like, I mean, that's what's so wonderful about, you know, like, the... It's the se… it's just so beautiful about a, about a writer-director who really understands economy, you know? Like, so much of it is about, like, can we lift that word? Does, do they need, do they need to say a line here? You know, can we, can we... It's so much about, like, do they need to say anything? You know, c… it's, it's so much about restraint in there, 'cause there were literally lines and words that we were lifting. There were lines that, 'cause the, so much of it, the sense of naturalness between the two of them happened because of the improv that was happening between the two of them, and it felt more and more natural the less that they said.

38:40Jawad MirYeah.

38:40Harry YoonAnd it was the pauses between the improv, because they didn't need to say anything. It was the laugh after what they said that felt the most natural, and so we just kept lifting and lifting and lifting the lines, and it, and so it was just, "Are we friends now?" And, like…... We didn't, there were lines that he said, we just took it out. We just took out the line. It was just the look that Frank gave. That's all we needed. And Destin just understood. He understood how good the performances that Tom and, you know, Tom and John were giving were so good that we could just, we could just keep lifting and shaving, and it was just that principle of just enough and no more, just enough and no more. And what I love is that Destin is, as a great writer-director is never precious about his lines, never precious about his dialogue, and he understands when the look and the performance is that just enough and no more.

39:45Harry YoonAnd, yeah, that's why it's such a pleasure to cut with him. Like, he's like, "Let's take this out. Let's take that out," 'cause that's an, that's, that's all we need. Yeah. It was so fun. Always so fun. He's a, he's an amazing editor 'cause he knows. He's made enough films that he just, he always knows when that just enough and no more is perfect, so yeah. S… so fun.

40:09Jawad MirAnd it…

40:10Harry YoonYeah

40:10Jawad Mir... It is, this power of silence is so powerful.

40:14Harry YoonYeah.

40:14Jawad MirYou know, even some of the projects that I do, and this, my most recent project, without divulging into it too much… ... It's about, it's about a guy taking revenge, and he sees the person he's gonna take revenge from…

40:27Jawad Mir... After 30 odd, 30 odd years. And the other person, I mean, you can have a freaking dialogue there, like, you know, "You did this, and you did that." And I had a version like that, and then I decided…

40:39Jawad Mir... To take out all the dialogues…

40:41Harry YoonYeah

40:41Jawad Mir... And just insert it in an object that clar… like an object that belonged to the person he came to get the revenge from… ... And it just spoke volumes. And I think…

40:50Harry YoonYeah. Yeah

40:51Jawad Mir... That is so powerful. You know?

40:54Harry YoonYeah.

40:54Jawad MirWe overlook the sense of silence, all of us…

40:58Harry YoonYeah

40:58Jawad Mir... You know, until we're…

40:59Harry YoonYeah

40:59Jawad Mir... Sitting there like, "Oh, God, this sounds so stupid and corny and dumb"…... And stupid. We have to take it out. So it's, it's again, going back to what you're saying…

41:08Harry YoonYeah

41:08Jawad Mir... The power of silence is powerful.

41:09Harry YoonYeah. Yeah. And, like, that's, that's why we cast the actors that we do. Like, and they take the burden of some of that dialogue off of us, you know?

41:23Jawad MirYeah, I mean it's…

41:23Harry YoonAnd that's why, I think that's why editing is so fun is, like, we get to see it. We see it in the frame, and we're like, "Okay, this is so unnecessary now." There's a redundancy that happens.

41:35Jawad MirYeah.

41:35Harry YoonAnd that's why it's so much fun to remove that redundancy. Yeah.

41:42Jawad MirAnd that, you talked about performances. I mean, Tom Holland… ... I don't know, he was in this movie called, The Impossible, which was about the tsunamis.

41:50Harry YoonYeah.

41:50Jawad MirAnd he was a little kid at the time. But I think Zendaya, she is another level of caliber, and I would love to see her play a daughter from, with Jennifer Lopez because they have the same kind of personality…

42:04Harry YoonYeah

42:04Jawad Mir... And features.

42:05Harry YoonYeah.

42:05Jawad MirAnd she's just a, she's just a brilliant actress. So is Tom, but she is just… Amazing. Absolutely amazing

42:13Harry YoonYeah. It's... I mean, look, I mean, I had the pleasure of, like, being one of the editors in Euphoria season one, and just breathtaking, her range and her courage, her intelligence. I mean, her... I mean, her awareness not only of, her courage, but also her awareness of as a filmmaker as well. Both of them

42:43Jawad MirYeah

42:43Harry Yoon... As well as her sort of dedication to, the overall project, too. I mean, I… they're incredibly generous filmmakers, both of them, and, a… and very aware of the overall needs of the project, very generous to their crew, and very professional, too. I think they were both very present through the post-production process, very, generous with their time. As huge as they are as stars, like, I mean, just participating, and generous with their comments and their notes and things like that. Like, it was just... I mean, it's just, it's wonderful to see that level of professionalism, maturity, and dedication to the filmmaking process. You know? It makes me really hopeful, you know, to see…

43:45Jawad MirYeah

43:46Harry Yoon... You know, people who are real, not just stars, but filmmakers, you know? And, you know, yeah. And that level of craft from stars like that, it's really wonderful. Yeah.

43:59Jawad MirYou mentioned Euphoria, so I haven't seen… ... The show, but I… ... Think it was a clip from Euphoria. It was a scene of her character fighting with her mother… ... And the mother kicks her out of the apartment, and she breaks the door.

44:12Harry YoonYeah. Yeah.

44:13Jawad MirAnd that, th… that whole sequence, there's parts where she doesn't say anything, and her lip here kind of, like, just…

44:18Harry YoonYeah

44:18Jawad Mir... Flips back and f… I'm like, "How the hell did she do that?" And she was, like, a little kid at the time, right? Like 14, 15.

44:25Harry YoonYeah. Yeah. I mean, what's incredible is, like, Zendaya... What's amazing is, like, Spider-Man, like, I think Homecoming or Far From Home came out around the same time as Euphoria, and, like, what's beautiful is, like, Zendaya can play a high school girl in the model of someone who's, like, in the tone of someone who's very sort of, like, sweet and innocent in a very to… tonally different form, right?

44:58Jawad MirYeah.

44:58Harry YoonAnd Zendaya can play a high school girl in the form of, like, a, like, a drug addict in a totally different tone in the form of Euphoria, and, like, it's like night and day. Like, completely different tone, completely different mode, and it's, like, almost as if, like, it's a completely different person, and you see the range of what she's capable of. Same actress, completely, tonally completely different, completely different show, completely different genre, and you see, like, that level of range, and it's breathtaking. It's breathtaking. Yeah. So…

45:37Jawad MirAmazing.

45:38Harry YoonYeah.

45:38Jawad MirLet me, let me just sort of as we got about 15…

45:40Harry YoonYeah

45:40Jawad Mir... Minutes left, I just wanna…

45:42Harry YoonYeah.

45:44Jawad MirAll of us, no matter what we do in life, you know, whether we're… ... Doctor or filmmakers, whatever, editors… ... We're always on a path of evolving and learning constantly, right? Not just the craft and the skill, which is great, that's important, but we learn about ourselves.

46:03Jawad MirWhat did you learn about yourself working on Spider-Man: A Brand New Day? As a human being, not as an editor.

46:11Harry YoonNo, absolutely. I think so much of what I learned about myself, I learned in contrast to Destin, actually. And I say that because I was reminded of what I wanna emulate in Destin, actually. It was a conversation that we had, which was, such an amazing conversation, in which he took me aside. It's because we were having a brainstorming conversation, and it's after we were, we were talking with a group of us, and he said, like, "You know, Harry, like when you're, when you are sarcastic or when you roll your eyes, you... I don't like it when you put other people down in the course of a meeting, because,..

47:18Harry YoonAnd I'm wondering why you do that because, like, I think it makes other people feel bad, and I'd, I'd love for you to help to encourage other people in the course of a meeting rather than discourage people. And I wanna understand better why you do that." And we had this really vulnerable conversation about why that happens for me sometimes. And I s… and I said to him, "I think I do that because when I was younger, I thought that, you know, my w… being smart was, like, really important, and, you know, I thought, like, maybe, like, you know, maybe because I wasn't valued for other reasons, like re… Maybe like I had to feel like I was this...

48:19Harry YoonI ha… being smart was the only reason I would be valued. And so I have to constantly be the smartest person in the room. And maybe, when people aren't smart or people don't have good ideas, like, I sort of naturally have this, like, knee-jerk reaction against it. And he said like, "Well, like, you don't have to be that way. You don't understand the power that you have now. Like, people respect you so much that, like, when you do that, like, people feel like they don't have permission to contribute. Like, you're no longer powerless. You are so powerful because of your standing and your status. And, when you do that, people don't feel like they have, permission to contribute. And I don't want people to feel that way, because I feel like even if they're bad ideas, I want to hear them because..."

49:23Harry YoonAnd he said this is such a beautiful thing. He said, "Ideas are delicate things. And… ... Even if they start off in this, like, ill-formed way, they can bloom into something, and we can, they, you know, they could... We can cont… you know, add on to them or... And I don't want that person to feel like they can't be the source of new ideas, 'cause we can, you know, we can add onto it or we can change it or things like that." And he also shared very vulnerably, too. He's, you know, he shared about his own father and how he was the kind of person who always felt like he needed to be the smartest person in the room and things like that. And we just had this really vulnerable conversation together, and I was thinking, like, that's what a great leader does. A great leader doesn't shut me down, but he offer… he asks me why do I do that? And he creates a forum in which I feel safe enough to sort of examine my own flaws. And then he sort of gives me an opportunity to grow and to, you know, to then sort of, like, be a better person as part of the team.

50:42Harry YoonAnd I think he then also protects the people that could be hurt as a result of my own flaws. And I think what I wanna do is I wanna be a better leader like Destin. You know, I wanna be somebody who is constantly seeing the importance of every person on a team and is somebody who is committed to, not just the making of a great movie, but also to the flourishing of every member of that team.

51:25Harry YoonAnd see… and recognizing that's not just sort of like a kumbaya kind of goal, but seeing how critical that is ultimately to, how that actually is the way a great film is made, is that inherently…

51:44Jawad MirIt shows. It shows

51:45Harry Yoon... It's such a, it's such a collaborative art that, like, this thinking that an idea is a delicate thing is the secret. Is that if that person ultimately is shut down, then that person might be the source of something that we all could build on. Or if that person feels like that... If someone doesn't feel like they can't contribute, then we lose the source of something, perhaps something that's very important, you know? And if people aren't feeling like they can't cont… whereas the contrast is if everyone is invited to contribute the best of what they can do, and if Destin is constantly, in a million different ways, invite… creating an environment in which everyone is encouraged to do their best work in having hundreds of these kinds of conversations, then you might end up with something that looks like Brand New Day. And you see that in what he's doing now.

52:46Harry YoonLike Destin is like, has cre… has directed a movie that has broken box office records, historical records. And what is he doing? He's posting videos and about his crew, about his DP, about his stunt coordinator, about the post-production crew, about his first assistant editor. He's constantly lifting people up, you know, his crew. He's not lifting himself up. He's lifting other people up. And I think, like, that says something about his style of leadership. And I think for me, I wanna emulate that. I wanna, I wanna be better about that. And I think, you know, what this movie taught me was, like, there's still, there's still a ways to go and, but it gave me a very clear model of not only, like, how, who I wanna emulate, but it gave me a clear model of, like, how amazing the results can be.

53:51Jawad MirWith great sense of power comes great responsibility.

53:54Harry YoonYeah. Yeah. And great results.

53:57Jawad MirYeah.

53:57Harry YoonClearly.

53:58Jawad MirGreat results.

53:58Harry YoonYeah.

54:00Jawad MirIf you don't mind me asking, and please…

54:02Harry YoonYeah

54:02Jawad Mir... Since you kind of went in that realm…

54:04Harry YoonYeah

54:04Jawad Mir... I don't like to go into people's personal lives.

54:07Harry YoonYeah.

54:07Jawad MirYou talked about, you know, growing up, maybe that sort… that kind of shaped you, that you need to be smartest in the room, right? Was there a particular incident that sort of stays with you that maybe is the reason? That if you feel comfortable talking about.

54:26Harry YoonI think, I think it's really just feeling like, you know, being, I think, an Asian American immigrant, like you do definitely feel like an outsider sometimes. You know, I think just culturally and, you know, I think y… feeling a little bit outside of the culture. It's more of that 'cause I mo… I immigrated to the States when I was five years old, and, you know, didn't necessarily understand the language, didn't necessarily understand the culture right away. But, you know, I think, you know, I was pretty successful academically pretty quickly. And yet at the same time, because I was a, I was a quick student of culture, I was a weird Asian American immigrant in that, like, for some reason, I was, like, very attuned to social dynamics.

55:25Harry YoonMaybe it's because I was very attracted to the performing arts. Very early on, I was actually, involved in theater. I was actually in musicals from a very young age, which is very unusual for a Korean American immigrant. Like, I was actually in a musical when I was, like, in, like, fourth grade, and I have a very distinct memory of, after a musical, walking through, after the show, like, walking through this, like, audience of, like, really, like, tall parents and, like, looking up at them and, like, being this, like, one Asian kid among, like, you know, all these, like, this suburban, like, you know, all these, like, suburban white parents and, like, being like, "They have no idea who I am, but, like, why are they all smiling at me?" You know? Like, all these strangers.

56:27Harry YoonAnd I realized, like, oh, it's because I was, like, the lead in this musical. And I was like, whoa, like, the power of, like, the performing arts, like, the power of art is, like, kind of amazing. Like, just because, I sang a few songs and told a story, like, you know, it's really powerful. And that's... It was really... It left a real impression on me, and I think that convinced me that, like, that there's something to this. And I think ever since then, as, like, as much as I really,.. You know, I, and it was so, it's those dual realities of, like, feeling like a stranger and, you know, being academically, you know, proficient. But also some part of me also really loved, you know, the arts and storytelling and things like that. And so, that's a little bit of, like, where that identity came from and where, you know, my secret desire to ultimately want to be a storyteller came from.

57:33Harry YoonSo yeah.

57:34Jawad MirThat's a, that's a great story, man. You know… ... I feel that we, art, whether it's painting, ballet, film… ... Whatever, it has no race. It has no religion. It has… ... No boundary. And, you know, you could have... It's like food and performance in my view. Like, you…

57:55Jawad MirYou know, if you break bread with someone, you will just talk to them as a normal person as opposed to, "Oh, you're X, Y, Z," or, "You're X, Y, ABC," right? And it's the same thing in arts. If you embrace arts truly, nobody cares where you're from. Nobody realizes, you know, where you're from. It's just because you, they're watching your work and your performance, and that's what's amazing about art.

58:18Harry YoonYeah. It's human experience.

58:20Jawad MirHuman experience…

58:20Harry YoonYeah

58:20Jawad Mir... What we do. It's, it's been amazing, Harry. And, you know, it's funny, if I did not know your name was Harry, you, and you look exactly like one of my high school friends, Peter Gian. He was from South Korea too. You look like identical…

58:32Harry YoonAwesome.

58:32Jawad Mir... Older version of him.

58:34Harry YoonThat's great. Yeah. Yeah.

58:35Jawad MirBut, it's, it's been amazing pleasure. Thank you so much for amazing form of work. Truly enjoyed it, and I'm looking forward to more of your work. Is there something that's announced that you wanna tell us, or is it something still in the hidden vault?

58:52Harry YoonEverything's, everything's in the works. There's stuff cooking, but I'm excited…

58:56Jawad MirGood

58:56Harry Yoon... To share more in the future definitely. Thank you, Joel.

58:59Jawad MirAwesome. Thank you so much.

59:00Harry YoonI really enjoyed our conversation.