The Heroism and Resiliency of 911', Director, Michael Gier

0:00Jawad MirI'll tell you a really cool story. So I was at a convention just recently. This gentleman, he's a journalist of a religious magazine in UK. He's Muslim. And he was talking about how him and his wife moved into a neighborhood in London, and his wife wore the hijab. Everybody started giving crazy look. Instead of taking that as a victim card, the woman, what she decided to do is she baked cookies and cakes…

0:23Jawad Mir... And she went door to door and gave it to these people, and their perception changed completely.

0:28Michael GierI, and I, and I love that, you know, and that's a great example. So if you don't mind, you saw the film, the whole thing? Did you watch the whole thing?

0:33Jawad MirYes.

0:34Michael GierSo did you see Dr. Torabi

0:36Jawad MirYes

0:36Michael Gier... That I... You know, he's Muslim, and, you know, he talked about how he wanted to make a difference because he said, "The people who attacked my country..." He loves America. He's, and he said, "This is my country. I was attacked, too." So he was going to be a doctor anyway, but he, 9/11 changed the course of his life and he decided to join…

0:52Michael Gier... The military and be a military doctor so that he could be there at war to help the American soldiers who were there to fight the terrorist enemies that...

1:08Jawad MirWell, thank you so much for taking the time to chat about, your film, which is, give me the title again. It's, I know it's about, s… Heroes of 9/11, some… something along those lines.

1:19Michael GierIt's called, The Heroism and Resiliency…

1:21Jawad MirThe Heroism

1:21Michael Gier... Of 9/11.

1:22Jawad MirHeroism.

1:22Michael GierYeah.

1:23Jawad MirAwesome. And…

1:24Michael GierAnd I can say, I can say it. It's, it's a mouthful, so I'm happy to say it.

1:29Jawad MirNo, it's all good. I have a series of questions, that I took down while I was watching it, but just to kinda start off, first of all, to understand, you know, the genesis of this film, considering obviously it's gonna be 25 years this September 11th, but there have been so many different films that have come out over the years, and as of recently, too. What was your reas… reasoning behind it and how it sort of began, the journey on this project?

1:59Michael GierYeah, there are definitely a lot of films about 9/11, and I was just a… at a restaurant in DC recently, and the guy next to me said, "Why would you make another film about 9/11? I've seen all the other ones, and it's still the same story." And that's, so that's why it's a very good question because that's one of the things we are wanting people to understand is that this film is n… not like any other film that's already been produced. You know, the other 9/11 films are important, and they talk about the tragedy. They talk about what happened on that day. Our film focuses on not just the tragedy. We talk about that for, I think I put six to eight minutes of that at the, at the beginning of the film, but the two-hour film, the rest of it is all about the positive things that came from 9/11 despite the tragedy. And we focus on the heroism. We sp… focus on resiliency, and we focus on so many stories that m… most people don't even know, had never heard before. I had never heard them before until I started researching it, and I'm like, "How did I never know this? America needs to hear these stories. Canada, the rest of the world, we need to hear these stories."

3:00Michael GierSo that's why we decided to include so many of these stories that have never been told before, but all with a very positive, inspirational message and feel throughout this film. And, the film so far has won five Best Documentary awards in film festivals. And what's been great is, are the audiences coming up afterwards and talking to me, in tears, talking about how inspirational the film is. And, you know, that's what I wanted people to feel. I didn't want them to come to the film and, you know, walk away depressed or bummed out or whatever. W… you know, they walk away inspired, feeling filled with hope, hearing stories they've never heard before. And, so it is a very powerful film and it is called The Heroism and Resiliency of 9/11, and we put that in the title because it is all about heroism and resiliency that took place on 9/11 and the days that followed.

3:48Jawad MirAwesome. Well, the fact that audience is moved by it, that pretty much is the main goal of any writer, director, or any person on a film, so congratulations on that. That's awesome. I wanted to ask you, on the day of 9/11, September 2001, do you remember where you were and what were you doing on that day? Does that sort of still s… lingers in your memory?

4:15Michael GierYeah, and I think it's one of those days that pretty much every American who's old enough to remember, remembers. You know, my parents knew exactly where they were when President Kennedy was shot. And, you know, I think 9/11 was that same type of thing for our generation. So I was in Palm Springs at the time, and, I was still, I was here in Los Angeles, which is where I lived, but I had a, little side business I was doing as a, real estate investor and we were building houses in Palm Springs. So I was just out there to look at the work my contractor was doing on the houses going up and meet with my real estate agent to look at other pieces of property, land that we could buy, that we could build on. And, so that's where I was, and, you know, I turned on the news that morning and just quickly looked and saw that there was a plane that had crashed into a tower. Didn't think much of it. Turned the TV off. Other than it was a serious, awful mistake, but I had no idea what was coming. And then I just spent the day doing business, you know, and didn't realize until that evening when I got back to the hotel that I was like, "Oh, my gosh. What just happened?" And then, you know, the reality, was pretty devastating to see what this country had just gone through on the East Coast.

5:21Jawad MirOh, wow. So, I mean, I completely understand when you're working and all that, things kinda get, you know, you busy, but because it was such a big thing, I guess there was no social media at the time. Wasn't there anybody who sort of, kinda took you on the side or mentioned it to you, whether wherever you were that, you know, this is what happening? Or maybe at a restaurant watching TV. I don't know. Just trying to un… sort of see how that kinda just skipped through your entire day.

5:48Michael GierYeah.

5:48Jawad MirWere you that swamped?

5:50Michael GierWell, I think we all were. And, you know, it was different back then. We're talk… you know, 25 years ago.

5:54Jawad MirYeah.

5:54Michael GierI don't even know. I think we may have only had flip phones, you know, for cell phones. We didn't have You know, these guys are all little computers now, you know?

6:03Jawad MirYeah.

6:03Michael GierYou've got everything at your fingertips. Back then, you know, nobody was calling me to say what happened. I wasn't married at the time, and so, I had no wife or girlfriend or anybody calling me, and I was just going about my... And everybody else I was working with were out going about their day, and they also had the same phones that I had. And so yeah, nobody was really reaching out and, because it was just a workday. And those of us who were out working, you know, missed it. I don't remember exactly when I found out. I just know it was later in the day. It may not have been at the end of the day. It's been t… you know, it's, it's so long ago, I don't remember exactly. I just know I saw the plane hit in the morning. I left for work, and I didn't find out till much later in the day that, you know, something that horrific had taken place. And yeah, and you know, that's, that's kind of, shocking when I think back that actually took place. You know, so much suffering happening on the East Coast. I have no idea, and I'm just going about my day. And then now here I am twenty-five years later, you know, producing this amazing film that's going to inspire and change lives because of what happened on that day.

7:03Michael GierSo I'm thankful that I got to do something, you know, since I missed it technically that day, and, you have to do something twenty-five years later to make a difference.

7:12Jawad MirAmazing. And to be fair to you, I mean, even the world that we live in right now, which is extremely connected, a lot of people are oblivious, let alone what's going on in the world. But even like, you know, in the same city or same country.

7:24Michael GierYeah.

7:24Jawad MirThat's just, you know, that's sadly the reality. But at the same time, a lot of people who are aware what's going on, what exactly are they able to do other than just, you know, be sort of depressed about it? So it's kind of like a weird, you know, catch 22. But…

7:41Jawad Mir... I think, I think it's important that you have done this, to be honest with you. And I have seen quite a few of 9/11 documentaries, and I remember watching it on TV at that time. I had just been laid off from my first job. And I remember…

7:55Jawad Mir... Watching it, and thanks to you for sharing these stories that are very powerful and mo… moving, which is something that will lead me into the questions that I have.

8:05Michael GierAbsolutely. Oh, and…

8:06Jawad MirWonderful.

8:07Michael GierYeah.

8:07Jawad MirGo on, please. Go on.

8:09Michael GierWell, no, I was just gonna say, yeah, no, I'd love to hear that question. Yeah, because you're, you're right. You know, that's exactly what we did.

8:14Jawad MirYeah. So normally I pretty much have a very organic conversation, but sometimes with documentaries like these or films, there's a little bit more in depth, so I write them out, so I have to sometimes read it, so please forgive me for that.

8:27Michael GierNo.

8:27Jawad MirBut I wanted to make sure I asked the right questions is, you know, one of the first stories that, it isn't really about the firefighters or police, right, in the film that you have, but it's more about like, you know, the homeless men helping the

8:42Jawad Mir... The Wall Street workers. And how did you discover that story, and when did you realize that this was like something that needed to capture it to be able to tell the story from at least in the beginning part of the film?

8:56Michael GierYeah. So, you know, I had thir… thirty-five hours of interviews from different people, so there's a lot of great content, a lot of great stories. And so once we, or I should say I, decided what I wanted to put into the film, then, you know, I start editing because I did edit the project. Then it's deciding what pieces go first, because it is, this particular film is in segments. You know, we're telling the story of Will Jimeno, who was buried thirty feet below the two towers for, you know, all day long with his sergeant. We tell the story of, the boat lift. You know, we, was crowd there. All these different stories are segments in the film. And then Gary Sinise, the actor, narrated the film for me and kind of connected all of these different segments together…

9:36Jawad MirYeah

9:36Michael Gier... So that it's one cohesive piece. And so, you know, just in the editing process, I just decided that, Alex Zablocki, it's, it's his story, talking about how the homeless folks going through a drug rehab program really helped the people up from Wall Street. And, I just thought, you know, it just ended up fitting there at the beginning first. And what was great about that story and why it was important to me was, you know, it's just a role reversal. You know, Wall Street guys, you know, pretty successful, make a lot of money. And, you know, they were now in need because, you know, their area, their part of the city where it was attacked. And the towers came down, and they were all covered in white, and they're bleeding and hurt. And, you know, it was just disastrous for all of them down there. And so they're walking north, and this mission, decided... The residents decided, "These people need help. Let's create some flyers, and let's get out there and let them know that we're here. They can come to our mission, and we've got water. We'll give them food. We'll give them some clothing. We'll, you know, we'll clean them up.

10:36Michael GierWe'll help them out, give them a place to rest." And so they literally organized, printed these flyers and went out there on the streets. They went south while all of these Wall Street professionals were coming north, and they started handing these flyers out. And Alex Zablocki was one of those gentlemen who received a flyer. And, he just said it changed his life. You know, he went to the mission. And they did. They had… They turned on showers for them. They gave them food. They gave them water. And what was great about that story is the role reversal, because, you know, these are homeless people going through a drug rehab program that, as they say in the film, the people from Wall Street, you know, would barely even have looked at, you know, wouldn't even glanced over. You know, they were the homeless folks in New York. And yet here these homeless folks are now taking care of and helping these Wall Street professionals. And, one of the great stories that I love in that segment is the guy who ran the mission, you know, he said that w… he saw this with his own eyes. One of the residents there had two shirts to his name, and he went to his locker and he took out one of those shirts and he gave it to one of the Wall Street professionals because, again, their clothing was covered in, you know, all that white soot and whatever el… whatever else it was.

11:47Michael GierAnd so he gave him fifty percent of what he owned, that, you know, one of those shirts. And, you know, so it was just a powerful, inspiring story that kind of shows what took place on 9/11, not just by those homeless folks, but also by the community as a whole throughout New York. Neighbors were taking care of neighbors, strangers taking care of strangers. They didn't care about your race, your politics at that time, your religion. It wasn't about any of that. It was about w… w… we were being attacked. We're here to take care of each other. And then people did everything they could to make sure that each other were taken care of. So, you know, that was just one example of what so… of so many things like that happened on 9/11.

12:28Jawad MirI, and I found that incredible in aspect of your film, but as well as in general, you know, in life that how it shows that the value of dollars, how worthless they are if something like s… this happens.

12:44Jawad MirAnd, you know, at the end of the... I'm sure you have traveled a… around the world. I… I've seen this with my own eyes too, like people who are really living in poverty are always pretty much the first one to put a smile on somebody else's face or to help out, 'cause they have seen the worst, right? And I think that's one of the things that really stood out for me in your film, is that angle, and I thi… I think it's really resonates with almost anyone, whether you're homeless or not, because it's the right thing to do. It's the human being thing to do.

13:16Michael GierAbsolutely. Yeah. And, you know, one of the things that the film, we encourage is that you... We do it today. You know, smiling at somebody, you know, a simple smile. You know, holding the door open, you know, for somebody as they're walking right behind you. 'Cause I, you know, I see it all the time. I walk in behind somebody and they clearly didn't see me, or they act like they didn't see me, because…... They get themselves through and all of a sudden the door's closing in my face. You know. You know, and that, you know, it is what it is. Everyone's, you know, busy, you know, thinking about whatever they're thinking about. I don't think they're doing it to be rude. It's just people don't think. But I want people to think and think about the person behind them or the person next to them and, you know, be kind. You know, hold the door open for that extra three seconds, you know. Smile at the person walking past you know. And, you know, I just think that's, that's all important, and that was reflected in the film on 9/11. And so I wanna r… really encourage people to, you know, incorporate that today.

14:10Jawad MirAmazing. Yeah, smiling, at least for me, is something that, you know, you could be walking, somebody just says hello, whether you're in suburbs or in the city. It makes a big difference because y… you could really lift up your spirits if you're having a bad day.

14:22Michael GierAbsolutely.

14:22Jawad MirSo yeah, no, I completely agree with you. Moving on to my next question. You know, you have, Caitlin Levy's stor… Levy's, Levy's story. And, you know, Caitlin talks about choosing to light a candle rather than to curse the darkness, right?

14:37Jawad MirWere you intentionally looking for stories that focus on transformation rather than tragedy? I mean, I know you kinda mentioned that, but the transformation part, was that very necessary for you as you were working on it, or was it sort of like a discovery as you were going along?

14:52Michael GierYeah. Well, I was definitely looking for the positive things that came from 9/11 despite the tragedy, and so I definitely was looking for stories that, you know, was tran… transforming in somebody's life. But the thing is, pretty much every story I found and every person I talked to, whether they made it in the film or not, all had something positive that came from that very tragic event. So I think, you know, in life, you know, we all have our own ground zeros. You know, we have our own tragedies, whether it's through divorce, bankruptcy, health issues, death of somebody you really love. You know, all those things are tr… traumatic and very hard to go through in life. You know, and, there's not always necessarily something that's gonna always be positive from it, but you can definitely make it through it. And so I wanted to find examples like Jack Grandcolas. He lost his wife and their unborn child on Flight 93 when that plane went down. And, you know, he talks about, and the others talk about... You know, the other woman lost her husband in the Twin Towers when they came down. She goes, "He went to work like he does every day, kissed him goodbye, and he didn't come home that night."

15:53Michael GierYou know, that's just devastating. And they all… That's tragic, and the… we all experience those kind of tragedies today. And, you know, they found things that were positive. She became a very strong, independent person that got into politics. And, you know, before that, she was a very quiet, humble housewife. She goes, "I never did anything."

16:13Michael Gier"I never did any public speaking." And she goes, "Now, because of what I experienced," and it was incredibly difficult and took a very long time, laying in bed, being depressed, but eventually getting that one foot out of bed or eventually getting up. I used her… I wanted her in the film as an example for others who are going through traumatic things. You're gonna be tempted to lay in bed and be depressed. But here's an example of the… another alternative, you know. Get back to life, slowly but surely. It's gonna be hard. It's gonna be difficult, but you can do it. She did it, and then she became a very successful leader and a very different person than who she was before 9/11. And she goes, "I like who I am today." So that's a positive, as difficult as it was. Jack Grandcolas losing his wife and unborn child. Devastating. He talked about his depression and, you know, he didn't wanna eat. He didn't wanna work out. He didn't wanna do anything. And, you know, he talks about... I couldn't put it all into the film, but, he talks about, you know, making it through ultimately and getting back, you know, to life. And then he found, an amazing woman years later that he married. They're married today, and she is, just so in… inspirational to me as well because she understands Jack's loss.

17:19Michael GierShe understands Jack's love for his wife and unborn child, and she's there to support him. She's not jealous. She doesn't get irritated. She literally is there by his side to support him, to visit their… wherever they go to, you know, represent his wife and unborn child's death and going to the Flight 93 Museum in Shanksville, Pennsylvania. You know, she's there to support him. So, you know, he found an amazing woman by his side. But yeah, so I mean, these stories, they just all, as devastating as they were, people found a way through. Now, there are stories of people who didn't. You know, there are stories, you know, and I talked to some of those people. But again, that's a choice in the sense that Jack had that same choice to stay in bed. You know, the other gal, I can't remember her name right now, had the choice, after she lost her husband, to stay in bed. But, you know, and many of the others, but they chose not to. They chose to, like I said, slowly but surely get back to life, process it the way they could best process it, and then they got back to life, and then they became stronger because of what they had learned, versus being devastated and letting it destroy the rest of their life.

18:25Michael GierIt is a choice. I really wanted to show that, and that's what we talk about in the film. You know, what you can do to get your life back. How do you, how do you handle traumatic things, tragedy in your life? I put that in the film for that very reason, because I want to encourage and help people get through it If it's happened to them, something tragic, or it's going to happen in the future, there is a way to get through it, and it's your choice to get through it. You know, you just have to get up and you just have to get… ma-make it happen, like these other examples in the film did.

18:55Jawad MirI agree. I c… I couldn't agree with you more. And…... I think that's one of the things I really loved about it. And you talked about, we talked about transformation, right? So you… When did you start working on this film? I'm imagining a couple of years ago?

19:08Michael GierYeah.

19:08Jawad MirOr long…

19:08Michael GierShockingly, January 2022. So f… over four years ago.

19:11Jawad MirRight. And so over these four years, how have you seen your life transform?

19:21Michael GierWell, you know, I'm just always inspired by these stories. You know, I've always been a very positive person, anyway. You know, I don't know how… I don't see how my... I don't know if my life has really transformed per se, because I've, I've always been that type of, you know, uplifting. I've always been friendly. I've always been go out of my way to help somebody.

19:39Jawad MirRight.

19:39Michael GierI always go out of my way to smile with people, you know. So I've always been that kind of person anyway, which is why I think it's important to me to put it in the film to encourage others to do the same. And you know, so I've just been inspired. You know, I haven't experienced the tragedy that these people have experienced. So, you know, I think if I ever do, you know, I'm going to have learned what they learned going through it. I'm going to have learned, you know, what I can do to make it through it, which is again why I wanted to make sure that was in the film to help others. But the inspiration, that's the only thing I can think of that really inspired, changed me because every story in this film is so inspiring, and so many other stories I couldn't put into the film. It really is amazing.

20:21Jawad MirWas there a particular interview or series of conversations that you had with people on camera that while you're there talking to them, right... I always believe like documentaries specif… I mean, with filmmaking, it's all like s… you know, basically you're a psychiatrist trying to talk to the other person. Was there a moment that really hit you hard in that moment when you were talking to any of these people that sort of s… has stayed with you?

20:52Michael GierI cannot remember now a specific moment, but in general, I can say that talking to them, yes, I'm hearing their story for the first time. Now, I do an interview before I show up with cameras, so I get an understanding of, you know, what their background is, what their story is, so I can make a list of questions so I'm prepared. But then, you know, when I get there and actually do the interview, it's much longer and I'm getting many more details that I didn't get in the e… earlier quick interview. And, yeah, so hearing these stories firsthand, seeing their emotion, you know, s… hearing their loss, hearing what they went through, for the first time right in front of them, you know, it definitely impacts me. You know, and there are times I'm... Thank goodness I'm not on camera because, you know, I'm getting teary-eyed. You know, but the camera can't see that because, you know, I'm behind the camera, which is good. But yeah, so that definitely happens and I'm, I'm literally constantly inspired by their stories and what they say and how they made it through. But what I also love, and I was told this by a number of them, like Mike McIntosh.

21:51Michael GierHe's from San Diego. He was p… he was a chaplain on 9/11. But I don't remember, I don't have it in front of me, so I'm gonna just kind of paraphrase, but he was part of a organization that the, our government, the United States government, would call on. I think it was only a group of twenty-five. They were all specially trained, and anytime there was anything serious that took place in the country, they were called on and they were flown out to be there to oversee, and that would be if it's a school shooting, if it's, a j… traumatic hurricane that just devastated, you know, a town, tornadoes, 9/11. So Mike got the call as usual, and so he's one of the head people in charge there at 9/11. He had a badge on that let him go anywhere. And they had tight security because they didn't want people just coming and going. They wanted to make sure everything was protected and only those who should be where they should be were there to do what they should be doing. Mike had a pass that let him go anywhere, and he was the head chaplain, at the time, and he was assigning all the other chaplains and people where to go.

22:51Michael GierSo he talked to a lot of first responders. He talked to a lot of people who had lost friends, family. You know, he was there for all of it. So he experienced it firsthand. And, he's also a friend of mine. He was my pastor when I was living in San Diego. I started going to his church at seventeen. I'm, I'm now much older. I'm twenty. I'm kidding. So when I was seventeen years old. So we've been friends for many years. And, so when I found out he had gone to 9/11, I'm like, "Mike, okay, let's talk." So then I realized his story and I'm… so I put him in the film. And, Mike's stories are just amazing as well with what he experienced. But after our interview that day, you know, I walked him back to his car and, he thanked me. He said, "You know," he goes, "I, you know, I've experienced a lot with all the different horrific things the government's called me to, called on me to go to and help, you know, take care of people that need to be taken care of and pray for them and be there for them." And he said, "You know, I... There's a lot of it that just stays with me." And he goes, "I think there's a lot of post-traumatic stress in regards to 9/11 because of what I saw, what I experienced." And he said, "You know, just sitting here and talking with you," I think we talked for a couple of hours.

23:53Michael GierHe said, "Just sitting here and talking," he said, "turns out it was very therapeutic."

23:57Jawad MirYeah.

23:57Michael GierHe goes, "You have no idea how that helped me today." And I heard that from a number of people, just talking about it, getting it out, you know, it actually really benefited them, helped them. So that was a side benefit in producing this film. I got to really help those being interviewed get it out, you know. So that was kind of nice to hear.

24:17Jawad MirYeah, no, that's exactly why I said it's like a, you know, a person who's directing the film is like almost like a psychiatrist. You're trying to…

24:23Michael GierExactly

24:23Jawad Mir... Understand, you know, you... And that li… literally filmmaking, I've learned over the years is that's what it's all about. If you can somehow connect to a person at a very deep level and they feel comfortable chatting with you're on the right path, right? So that's awesome.

24:38Michael GierYeah.

24:38Jawad MirAnd you ta… you talked about people finding purpose out of all these, out of 9/11 tragedy or just in general, right? And I think a lot of us, at a younger age or mid-age or now, we go through certain things in life that gives us purpose or another purpose after a purpose that was already given. Have you… do you have any story of yourself sort of that has given you purpose, whether it's becoming who you are today? Was there a certain catalyst or anything else in life, you know, whether helping others or talking to others? If that's something you're willing to share, I would love to hear that.

25:20Michael GierYeah, I think, you know, life does teach you, and you… and y… if you're teachable and you're willing to make adjustments to become a better person, there are things that are gonna happen in life that are going to allow you to do that. So definitely, there have been different, you know, things throughout life that have happened in my life, whether good or bad, that definitely inspired me and changed the direction of my life. I'll give you a very personal example.

25:45Jawad MirSure.

25:45Michael GierMy first… I was married before. My wife, we met, starring in a show together. We were both entertainers back in the day. And, so we got married, and then because we were both entertainers, you know, we performed together for many years, starring in all these shows and lots of amazing things. But, you know, I was kind of an ass in my first marriage, to be honest. And I was young, and I just made a lot of mistakes, you know, just not knowing better, you know. And so we ended up divorcing, and she's responsible for her part of it, but I'm definitely the one who, you know, started that catalyst that led us to divorce. So that was very devastating to me. And so being the person who wants to learn from my mistakes, I literally went to this amazing, marriage counselor, and I read all of his books and, you know, met with him one-on-one, and I'm like, "All right. I screwed up. What did I do wrong? Help me to be a better husband the next time." You know? So I literally spent a long time learning how to be the right man for the next woman, whether I was dating a woman or eventually gonna marry her. You know, I learned what I needed to do to be the person I needed to be for that person.

26:51Michael GierAnd, so I'm telling you, when I started dating, I literally remember, I don't remember the exact words, but they're like, "Man, where did you learn this? Because I've never met a man like you." And I'm like… "... From the loss of my first marriage and all the counseling." You know? "I want to be the man you deserve in your life." And so, you know, and then when I got married, you know, I've been married now over twenty years, twenty-three years now this year. You know, my wife and I, we're as in love as we were when we first got married. I build her up every day. She knows how much I love her. She knows I've got her back. We rarely fight because it's just not important. You know, the things I used to fight about in the past, stupid. You know, y… yeah, anyway. You know, so that was a… that would probably be the biggest catalyst very personally as far as what I've learned and how it's impacted my life today. I have an amazing marriage because of my screw-up in the first marriage, but willing to learn from it and become a better person so that I could be the husband my wife deserves. And, so that's just one big example.

27:45Jawad MirNo, that's, that's awesome. I appreciate you sharing something that personal. And, you know, g… going back to what you said earlier, had it been somebody else, they may have just sort of, you know, given up, life sucks, and, you know, or maybe even ruined another marriage or somebody else's. But…

28:01Jawad Mir... You know, taking those steps and the positive initiative, it makes a whole lot of difference. Whole lot of difference. In anything, in anything.

28:09Michael GierExactly.

28:10Jawad MirAll right, let's moving on to the film. You know, in your film, the revelation of the survivors unlo… unknowingly described that Wells before his family realized it was him and incredibly emotional. Was that one of the moments that affected you most during the production? It's kinda, I know it's kinda like I've already asked you, but was that something that was very moving for you when you discovered that?

28:32Michael GierAre you talking about Wells Crowther?

28:33Jawad MirYeah.

28:34Michael GierOh, yeah. Yeah. So that story I didn't find until later in production. I'd already pretty much edited the film, and I learned about that story, and I was like, "Oh, I've got to put this in." And so Wells Crowther was a re… worked in the towers, and he was a volunteer firefighter, and he had always worn a bandana. So I've got a picture in the film of him as a little guy. He's probably, like, five or six, wearing a bandana, and he always had a bandana everywhere he went for some reason, even into his adult life. And, so on the day that the attack took place, you know, this man with a red bandana, people said, were… was walking around saving lives, helping them to find the staircase, helping them, you know, out, and, you know, basically protecting them. And then he ended up dying when the towers came down, but nobody knew who he was. Everybody's like, "We just know the man in the red bandana," is what they called him. So news stories were being done about the man, the hero, the man in the red bandana. And, his mom, Allison Crowther, saw the, one of the stories, and she's like, "That's my son."

29:39Michael GierSo she contacted them, and then that's where it came out. You know, they gave the name. They said, "My son, Wells Crowther." And then her story came out about who he was and what he had done, and, yeah, that was a very inspirational story. You know, here's this young man, good-looking guy in his twenties, you know, just saving others. And what was amazing is, you know, he was a volunteer firefighter. He n… he never went into firefighting himself other than volunteering, but he really appreciated and looked up to firefighters. And when they found his body, he was amongst other firefighters, you know, which is kind of a tribute to his love for firefighters and doing the job of a firefighter that day. And, yeah, his story was very inspirational to me. Absolutely.

30:19Jawad MirThank you for sharing that. You know, kinda s… sagging, like, sort of going in a different direction for a second, nine eleven happened twenty-five years ago in September, right? And since then, the world that we live in has changed drastically, right? Like, you know, the aftermath of nine eleven, the Afghan War, the Iraq War, you know, so many other things that have taken place. And if you're willing to talk about it, I'm not really looking for any political answer or anything, but just in general How do you see... H… has America gotten, become better than they used to be before 9/11 as a whole in terms of the unity versus division? Or do you think, has it gotten worse, or is it the same more or less?

31:12Michael GierWell, you know, if you look back in history, it's, it's really interesting. You know, when we're living it here, we're like, "Man, we are so divided." Well, you look back at the beginning, you know, of America, they were also very divided. You know, there was definitely one side than the other, and they both didn't like each other, and they both thought their ideas were better and which direction the country was gonna go in, and that's just continued. Now, there are times when we are more divided and other times when we're less divided, but I think just in general regarding politics, we seem to be always divided, and that may be every country, you know. I don't know. But yeah, today I'd say we are very divided and, you know, we were probably divided before 9/11 as well. I don't remember the politics exactly back then, but I'm sure we were divided because the big thing that came out of 9/11 was that there was no more division. You know, people were just there for each other, for a period of time. And, you know, everybody was flying the American flag. Everybody was flying the American flag. It didn't matter where you went in New York, it didn't matter where you went in the country…

32:12Jawad MirYeah

32:12Michael Gier... The American flag was flying. So we were very... We came together as one, and that's one of the messages of 9/11 and the aftermath. Today, unfortunately, yeah, we're, we're not com… we haven't come together as one, except for the recent soccer game. You know, strangers met, you know, and had a great time partying and, you know, enjoying the game and, you know, watching sports and, you know. So that was kinda nice to see everybody just... And especially other people coming from other countries coming to America and going, "Oh my God, I love this country. I had no idea what a great country this is, and how nice the American people are, and all the amazing food and the big burgers and the big sodas and the," you know, all the things that we take for granted. You know, it was nice to see all these foreigners coming here and loving America, because America's great, and I'm br… you know, I'm happy and I feel privileged that I was born here and get to live here. And I've had all the opportunities that America gives everybody in this country. But yeah, we're divided and, you know, I've had people tell me after the film screenings, you know, people on the right have told me this and people on the left have told me this, "I hope to God...

33:13Michael GierYour film is so powerful and it shows the unity of what happened on 9/11. I hope to God your film can be used as an inspiration for people today to remember that we need to come back together as one." So I would say, yeah, we're divided, but I do hope the film will en… encourage others to put some of that aside and, you know, remember that we are all Americans, and we need to be there for each other.

33:35Jawad MirYeah, 100%. And I think e… even though I'm not American, I really admire the United States in many ways that a lot of Americans nowadays don't, right? Because it is… ... It is a place of opportunity. If you work your butt off, if you're honest, if you're straightforward, you will get the rewards. And I've... I know I get questions from people all the time, especially after this whole tariff Canada versus US.

34:03Jawad MirThey go, you know, "Why are you going to US? Isn't it dangerous?" And dude, I'm like, "I've talked to people. Everybody's, like, normal as hell. Like, you know, I don't know what you're talking about." And I think that boils down to the fact that if you, well, talk to people on social media, even if they live down the street, you'll feel like the world is ending, right? But until you physically make that effort of making a conversation and creating an initiative of talking to other people, taking that first step, nothing is gonna happen. So I think that's very important and I don't... I personally don't think... The reason I ask you, because I don't think the world is that divided. Because when you meet…

34:35Jawad Mir... People in real life, everybody seems normal. You're just talking about, "Hey, can you tell, can you tell me the direction of this place?" Or, "Can I borrow this food?"

34:43Michael GierYeah.

34:43Jawad MirRight? And it just seems okay to me, but who knows, maybe I'm dead wrong.

34:49Michael GierWell, I think, I mean, you're, you're right in that sense, asking somebody and talking to someone, everybody's nice and normal. But if you bring up politics, you may see a change in that person.

34:58Jawad MirMaybe.

34:58Michael GierIf they find out you have a different opin… it depends on the person, but that's what's scary. I have people who are saying, you know, "I'm not gonna hang out with this person because they don't... They have this thought." And I'm like, "What are you talking about?" I have friends in every political thing. I love talking to people who have a different opinion than me, and I don't look down on them. I'm like, "You have that right to have that opinion." You know?

35:17Jawad Mir100%.

35:18Michael GierBut there are people that if they think you disagree with them, they will not talk to you. They will... What do they call it when they, when they try to destroy your world, they try to destroy your life?

35:27Jawad MirOh, cancel culture.

35:28Michael GierCancel culture. Yeah.

35:29Jawad MirYeah.

35:29Michael GierThat's real. You know?

35:31Jawad MirThat is real.

35:32Michael GierIt's crazy.

35:32Jawad MirBut I'll, I'll te… I'll tell you a really cool story. So I was at a convention just recently. This gentleman, he's a journalist of a religious magazine in the UK. He's, he's Muslim. And he was talking to me about how him and his wife moved into a neighborhood in London, and his wife wore the hijab.

35:51Jawad MirAnd everybody, according to him, started giving, you know, crazy looks, like, you know, "Here we go," right? Just, you know, "The crazy Muslims are here." But instead of, instead of taking that as a victim card, the woman, what she decided to do is she baked cookies and cakes…

36:09Jawad Mir... And she went door to door and gave it to these people, and their perception changed completely.

36:13Michael GierAbsolutely.

36:14Jawad MirNow, that may not happen all the time…

36:16Michael GierYeah

36:16Jawad Mir... But it does happen if you make an effort.

36:18Michael GierAbsolutely.

36:18Jawad MirAnd that's what I mean.

36:19Michael GierYou're right. I, and I, and I love that, you know? And that's a great example. So if you don't mind, you saw the film, the whole thing? Did you watch the whole thing?

36:25Jawad MirYes.

36:26Michael GierSo did you see Dr. Taraby

36:28Jawad MirYes

36:29Michael Gier... That I featured in the film? Yeah, great guy. He was in one of my other documentaries and I'm just... Dr. Taraby's such an amazing man and we've become friends. But, you know, he's Muslim and, you know, he talked about how he wanted to make a difference because he said, "The people who attacked my country..." He loves America. He's... And he said, "This is my country. I was attacked, too. Just because I'm Muslim doesn't mean I wasn't attacked." And he wanted to do something. He goes, "I didn't want to be part of the problem or people perceive me as part of the problem." So he was going to be a doctor anyway, but he, 9/11 changed the course of his life and he decided to join the military and be a military doctor so that he could be there at war to help the American soldiers who were there to fight the terrorist enemies, the terrorist Muslims, who he said do not represent the faith. And, you know, so again, as you're saying, he, she baked cookies and went around. Well, that was… Brilliant. He wanted to do what he could as a Muslim to change people's opinions, and that was to help fight in the war and help American soldiers, which he did. And he spent, I forget how many years, but a long time in the military, and he still donates his time, and he's still in the reserves.

37:30Michael GierSo yeah, so great story. Yeah, I agree.

37:34Jawad MirAmazing. Just a couple of more questions before we wrap up. You know, there's a rec… rescue, a rescue sequence, almost like, I think it was like 25 or 30 minutes into the film where it unfo… it sort of unfolds like almost like a thriller, the way you put that together.

37:51Jawad MirAnd, yet every word that comes from real, people, what were the biggest storytelling challenges keeping the tension while remaining completely faithful to the facts? Like, you know, that there's obviously the cinematic part to it. I hate to use that word in this situation, but that…

38:08Michael GierYeah

38:08Jawad Mir... It is what it is. But also sort of balancing it out with the actual story. Was there a challenge in that or any aspect of post-production where you had to make that right balance and shift?

38:22Michael GierSo not at all, because what happened... I think you're talking about Will Jimeno and his story…

38:26Jawad MirYes

38:26Michael Gier... When he was buried.

38:27Jawad MirYes.

38:27Michael GierYep. Yeah, so Will Jimeno and his sergeant were buried beneath the Twin Towers. So when they were, when the first tower came down, they were buried 30 feet down, and then the second tower came down, and it just rearranged everything around them. But Will w… had a huge piece of concrete stuck in his chest. He couldn't move. His sergeant was further down and trapped, and so rescuers went down. It took them eight hours before they even found that these guys were down there. Imagine being trapped with fire and smoke and the heat and the pressure of the cement block on his chest and his whole body. You know, eight hours. You didn't think he was gonna live. And these rescuers, they found him, and they sent rescuers down there, but the rescuers didn't think they'd survive. It was so dangerous, so far down, so hot, so smoky. Scott Strauss, one of the rescuers on his way down, he took off his belt and everything else 'cause he couldn't have anything on him to get to squeeze down these little holes and, you know, work his, work their way down through all this mash… mangled metal. You know, he was saying goodbye to his kids and apologizing 'cause he, to himself, but he's just in tears. I, you know, he didn't think he was gonna make it back.

39:28Michael GierAnd, he th… this was his last day, but I have to go down there to do everything I can to rescue this man and, the sergeant. So he went down with others, and, so what happened was, I did the interviews for all of the film. I did the edit for the film, and then I realized we really need to hire some actors and film reenactments because it will bring the story alive.

39:49Michael GierSo we did. I hired a bunch of actors. So for Flight 93, you know, we, when we tell that story, the passengers fought back against the terrorists. We filmed that with actors on an airplane, and we filmed the passengers fighting back, and there's a whole sequence there that you saw. Same thing with Will Jimeno. We f… we found the... We built a whole set at a sound stage here in Hollywood and built this set that made it look like they were 30 feet down, and it was y… a mess, disastrous, and these w… rescue workers coming down there and risking their lives and helping Will, to be saved. And so having done the interviews and then realizing I needed to add reenactments, the story was already there. The story was already being told from those that were there, Will Jimeno and the rescuers. They all tell that story, and it was already edited. So all I did was hire actors and film reenactments that followed what they said.

40:39Michael GierSo nothing was changed. Nothing was changed at all. And so that's why, you know, we'll see Will and Scott and Chuck and the others that I interviewed talking, and then I cut to the actors acting out what they're talking about happened. And then we cut back to them talking some more, and then we go back to something else that the actors are doing that represent what they're talking about. And so it wa… it just lined up exactly with what they were saying. And if you notice, I had the actors also at times say the exact same thing or very…

41:11Jawad MirYes

41:11Michael Gier... Similar to what they said. And I could only do that because we'd already done that edit, and I knew what they were gonna say. So I wrote down that dialogue, and I told the actors, "You need to say this line. You know, here's the scene." And I'm directing them 'cause we didn't record audio. So I'm directing them. I can just talk while we're filming and, you know, and they're in character. You know, I'm telling them what's happening, you know, where the fire is. You know, your right arm is burning. You're getting all these fire things hitting your right arm because Will talks about that. So my actor just starts, you know, jumping and, you know, in pain and looking at his arm, and he did it brilliantly. But it's because Will had already talked about that, so I just had my actor act it. And then with specific lines, like one of the officers, there were three officers that made it alive when the towers came down, but one of them died when the second tower came down, and as he's dying, you know, he looked at Will and said, "I love you," and he goes, "I love you." And, you know, so I had the actors, you know, say that, you know, those kind of lines, and it lined it up with when Will said, "I love you," I see the actor laying there, you know, looking at his partner, his friend dying, "I love you."

42:14Michael GierIt just, it all lined up. And I had a b… bunch of times throughout the reenactment that I had them do that, which, you know, I just thought of one night, and I thought, "I wonder if this is gonna work," and I think it really works well.

42:23Jawad MirYeah.

42:23Michael GierSo.

42:23Jawad MirIt does.

42:24Michael GierI...

42:25Jawad MirIt most certainly does. And, you know, you talked about Gary Sinise, which I thought was a great choice because I don't remember what exactly was it for. This was a while ago. I saw this video where he was, sup… like a... He was really helping a certain community or a group of people. I don't know if it was…

42:43Michael GierYeah

42:43Jawad Mir... Veterans or

42:44Michael GierYeah

42:44Jawad Mir... And they created this little, thank you tribute video, and they captured his reaction… ... While he's watching it, and he's crying. So I thought that was a really right choice because he's very passionate about, with that, and I think he, it keeps his profile low, which I wish he hadn't, but I get it because that's the type of person he is. But it was a great choice to have him in there. I really appreciate that.

43:09Michael GierYeah, and we did too. You know, it was great that he said yes when we approached him, and he said yes without even thinking twice. And yeah, so 9/11 was very impactful in his life as well, and he was a big star at the time and starring in movies, and he may even have been…

43:23Jawad MirYeah

43:23Michael Gier... Starring in CSI: New York. I'm not sure. But he said that because of 9/11, he wanted to use his celebrity to actually give back and help. And that was, I guess, the first time he had really been doing any of that, and he realized how much he loved it. He's like, "I really enjoy giving back and helping others." And so then he formed the Lieutenant Dan Band and started donating the band to f…

43:43Jawad MirYes

43:43Michael Gier... Different fundraising events and things. That then led to the Gary Sinise Foundation, which has been running for years, and they build and give away houses to veterans and first responders in need, and they do things all over this country. Millions and millions of dollars he raises and gives away to help the first responder and veteran community. So yeah, he does a lot of great work, but it all started because of 9/11, which is why he... Is another reason why he was the perfect fit for this.

44:08Jawad MirAmazing.

44:09Michael GierAnd, great, easy to work with, great guy, great heart. You know, it was great to meet him in the studio in Nashville, where he lives, and record his audio. And, he's, he's been,.. He was just, you're right, the perfect person for this.

44:21Jawad MirAmazing. So tell m… tell me, what's, what... When is the film is releasing, where is it releasing, and all that fun stuff…

44:30Michael GierYeah

44:30Jawad Mir... So the audience can see.

44:33Michael GierSo it'll be released in August. I believe August 1st is what I've been told. We wanted to make sure… ... It was released before September so people have time to watch it leading up to the 25th anniversary or commemoration. We're calling it a commemoration because an anniversary is usually celebratory, and we, you know, we're not necessarily celebrating. We want to commemorate what took place that day and the, those that were lost and then, as we said, feature the positive things despite the tragedy. But, August 1st, it should be out on Amazon, Prime Video, although they won't be in Canada because of Amazon issues, requirements. But, it will be on, Go…

45:09Jawad MirIt's okay. My films are on Prime Video U…

45:12Michael GierYeah? Are they? Good. Google TV, will have it. Apple TV will have it.

45:17Jawad MirI was just gonna say... Please go ahead.

45:19Michael GierWell, yeah.

45:20Jawad MirYes.

45:20Michael GierThose…

45:21Jawad MirYes. Go ahead

45:21Michael Gier... Those platforms will be in Canada, Apple TV and, Google TV. But here in America and 60-some other countries, Amazon Prime will have it. And then Fandango Home… ... Is supposed to have it as well. Waiting to hear from them. Yeah.

45:34Jawad MirThat's awesome.

45:35Michael GierAnd then, and then two... Oh, just one more quick thing. The…

45:38Jawad MirSure

45:38Michael Gier... People can watch the film trailer, on the film's website, which is the911film.com, and it's the numbers 911, the911film.com. You can watch the trailer and then watch the film as of August 1st.

45:54Jawad MirAmazing. I just wanna ask you two more quick questions. So you're talking about all these countries and different markets. Now let's talking about, like, the business side of things of the films, right? Like, was it... Like, h… how did you sort of get to those different regions for people who are trying to get their film into that market? I know there are aggregators available, right? Those different aggregators…

46:14Michael GierYep

46:14Jawad Mir... Who do these things. Is that something…

46:15Michael GierYep

46:15Jawad Mir... Similar approach that you took or…

46:17Michael GierYep

46:18Jawad Mir... What's it? Okay. Amazing.

46:19Michael GierYeah. So I used an aggregator. We had the option to put the film into movie theaters, 2,500 movie theaters nationwide, but we decided pro… p… we want the film to be seen. We figured more people are gonna watch it if they can be at home, turn on their TV, and watch it on Amazon or Apple TV versus getting up and going to a movie theater. And so we used an aggregator, and they do the quality control of the film itself. They do the, closed captions. They make sure everything's perfect, and then they submit it to the platforms, that we ask them to submit them to. And of course, I wanted the four big ones, which were the four I mentioned. And, all... Three of them have said yes. We're still waiting to hear from Fandango, as I mentioned. But, Amazon Prime... So it was all done through the aggregator, and then they deliver it. They deliver it to their specifications. It used to be that we could deliver films ourselves, and earlier in my career, I would deliver films myself to them, but now you need to go through an aggregator and, pay that fee. But I like... I use BitMax, and I happen to like them because although there's an upfront fee, they don't take anything on the back end. There are other aggregators that are free, but they'll take 20% of your back end, and, so I would rather pay s… a larger amount up front and keep 100% of my back end.

47:27Michael GierSo that's why we chose to go with BitMax.

47:29Jawad MirNo, BitMax is great. I think I used Filmhub for a couple of my films four or five years ago.

47:36Michael GierI've used Filmhub as well. They're the ones…

47:37Jawad MirYeah

47:37Michael Gier... Who take 20%. Yeah.

47:39Jawad MirYeah.

47:39Michael GierAnd then they started a monthly thing, which kinda irritated me. I don't understand it, but they do... They're charging quite a bit for a monthly fee if you want to have certain things, like you wanna say, "I wanna be on this platform but not that platform." Well, then they're gonna charge you a fee because you're customizing and blah. Back when they started, they didn't do that.

47:56Jawad MirYeah.

47:56Michael GierAnd when they changed to that, they irritated me, so I'm like, "You know, you're taking 20%, so I'm just going with BitMax again."

48:04Jawad MirNo, BitMax is on my radar for next couple of projects if there's a need, but that's good to know. What's, cooking for you after this? Are you taking a little bit of a break, or are you planning something, or...?

48:15Michael GierBoth. So I'm taking a break, and, you know, leading up to the film release, it… it's just crazy right now the amount of, time... And we... And I've been flying to DC and New York quite a bit doing interviews with, sports figures, with politicians, celebrities, just to talk about 9/11, have them talk about the film, and kind of, encourage people to watch the film and talk about the 25th commemoration. But once all of this is done and the film is out, I do plan to take a break. And then my next film, I've got two. One is a theatrical film with actors. That's going to be, a, basically a war film, but it's gonna be a story that's gonna help, veterans battling post-traumatic stress. We're going to feature a real-life alternative treatment in the film that is changing lives today. So that's…

48:58Jawad MirAmazing

48:58Michael Gier... A big project I have coming up. And then, the next documentary is gonna be helping to prevent sex trafficking, and, my executive producer on this film, The Heroism and Resiliency of 9/11, is very interested and wants to do the next film documentary with me. So we both agree that's what it's going to be, 'cause we're, we're very passionate about trying to find a way to help, you know, lower sex trafficking, human trafficking.

49:24Jawad Mir100%. 100%. No, that's amazing. Those are great stories and looking forward to checking them out. Again, congratulations on this film and, what you have done. Like I said, when I first got approached about your film was, you know, my question was, "Another 9/11 film?" But when I watched it was…... It was very different. It was very sort of hopeful and, you know... And it doesn't, it doesn't really sort of just speaks about 9/11 in particular. Like, you can just relate that to any element of your life, which is what I loved. Thank you.

49:53Michael GierNo, absolutely, and I… and I'm glad you saw it, and I'm glad that you got that from it, 'cause that's what I was hoping people would get.