'Little House of the Prairie', Cinematographer, Kim Miles

0:00Jawad MirI made a big mistake on one of my first feature doc. What I did was, like, ridiculous amount of drone shots, and I, looking back, I'm like, "That was a terrible mistake." Steady cams and drones and, like, dollies…

0:09Kim MilesDollies

0:09Jawad Mir... It seems like it's being used as a piece of equipment and tool.

0:14Kim MilesYeah.

0:14Jawad MirIt takes you away, and…

0:15Kim MilesYeah

0:15Jawad Mir... So I'm glad that you guys figured that out because I think that's what's a testament to the series. That's what spoke to me at least.

0:22Kim MilesYeah, that was, that was something that they explored very heavily in episode one. And like I was saying, you know, when we were looking at dailies, we were like, "I wonder if it's... It feels good, but is it the right language?"

0:31Jawad MirLanguage, yeah.

0:31Kim MilesAnd I'm glad we kind of stuck with it, you know? When we started episode two, we were on the Techno quite a bit. Julianne Robinson, who directed, episodes two and three, was a little resistive to using the Techno. I think, I think her instincts were right, that it was, like, maybe the wrong tool. Also, I was trying to impress on her that, "Hey, you know, it's not just a crane for crane shots. We can use it to move the camera in amongst the cast and all that."

0:52Jawad MirYeah.

0:52Kim MilesAnd she wasn't really buying into that, and I think her instincts were absolutely correct.

1:05Jawad MirI didn't know that there was a new version of Little House on the Prairie. I'll be very honest with you. Because, I mean, there's a classic one that we all sort of…

1:13Kim MilesYeah

1:13Jawad Mir... You know, as Canadians, kind of grew up with. And it dawned on me that I'm like, you know, after I realized it and I watched an episode, two episodes, I realized, okay, it should've been done a while ago because with the, with the success of films like, it's not films, series like Yellowstone, 19… 23.

1:45Kim MilesYeah.

1:45Jawad MirLike, that old era s… r… right? And half of seven, and I've really... Well, I've seen all the way up to seven and a half, but, I know that's, those are the ones that you worked on, I think, two, three, seven, and eight, if my memory's…

1:57Kim MilesThat's right, yeah

1:59Jawad Mir... And really enjoyed it, man. Like, it was just kind of…

2:02Kim MilesOh, really?

2:03Jawad Mir... A little different, you know? Kind of, like, calm and chill, and there's not too much craziness happening, and…

2:09Kim MilesYeah

2:09Jawad Mir... It was nice. It was nice.

2:11Kim MilesSomething, nice to do something for a change that the whole family can just kind of settle into and not really have to, you know, concern themselves with what they're gonna see, you know? It's, it's great, yeah.

2:22Jawad MirYeah. I'll, I'll, I'll talk about, I have series of questions, but one of my favorite moments, in the episodes that I saw, I think it was episode two, when Charles and Caroline, the characters, they're literally having a back-and-forth, argument or, you know, slash fight, and…

2:41Kim MilesYeah

2:41Jawad Mir... I loved, I loved the cinematography, the dark style where the camera keeps shifting without cutting.

2:48Kim MilesYeah.

2:48Jawad MirAnd that…

2:49Kim MilesYeah

2:49Jawad Mir... That really, a… as you know it, I mean, I know you, why, what's the purpose behind it, but just for our audience, that really s… sucks you in into the characters' struggles and stories.

3:02Kim MilesYeah. It was an interesting,.. We were still sort of finding the language of the, of the show when we were doing episode two, 'cause we didn't shoot them chronologically for the first three or four episodes, and then it kind of got all jumbled up. But yeah, we were still discovering what we liked, you know, and what the narrative was going to support. And my biggest fear, there were, you know, working with Ari Wegner, who shot the pilot, and Nate Goodman, who alternated with me on the series, the other two DPs, was great 'cause the three of us got to kind of bounce ideas off of each other and have what I think ended up being the best collaborative experience that I've ever had with other DPs, on a show. It wa… it was, it was a real family, environment. Anyway, but we were still wa… you know, Ari had shot a lot of the pilot handheld, and we were still sort of trying to decide if that was the way the show should go. And, the real balance point, I know at least for me, would be, trying to stay relevant to the characters with our camera operating, but balancing that against making the audience aware of the camera, you know?

4:16Kim MilesAnd there's so much, overuse of handheld, these days that I was terribly afraid that we would fall into that, and then all of a sudden, you know, audiences…... Would fall out of the show and be stuck looking at all this operating. But it felt right in this scene and ended up feeling right in a lot of stuff in the show, and I think we managed to find a good balance of being in their, in their space with the actors in a non-threatening way and still bringing the audience in there without drawing attention to the camera. So, Junichi Hosoi was our A camera operator, who's fantastic handheld. Doug Schwartz operated B camera on the show. And Amy Belling came out and did our Charlie camera, our C camera, and Amy had... The, you know, for many years, I've been a m… admirer of Terrence Malick's movies for years and years, and, there's a sensibility about the way that he tells stories with a handheld camera that has, for my entire career, been elusive.

5:20Kim MilesAnd we were doing, a campfire, singalong scene on this show. It was early in, it's episode two, I think it was, and we said to Amy, "Amy, grab the, grab your camera, put a 21 mil or 25 mil," whatever it was, a really wide lens on, "and just get in there and find your way around the dance." And she got into the dance with the characters, with the cast, and all of a sudden, I'm sitting at the monitor going, "There it is. There's that Terrence Malick kind of feel that has been so elusive to me for so many years," and it's just Amy just walked in there and just brought it So that was, for me, a turning point of like, okay, you know, now we can, maybe we can explore a little bit more handheld and make this a more personal journey, you know? So I'm glad you, I'm glad you enjoyed that sequence, 'cause we tried to do it in such a way that we didn't have to overcut it, you know? And luckily, Julianne, our director, and Rebecca Sonnenshine, our showrunner, were in agreement that they shouldn't overcut it.

6:24Kim MilesSo it was, yeah, super rewarding.

6:27Jawad MirThat's awesome. And I think the key word that you use, personal, right? Making things personal for these characters. And one of the things that, I mean, you talk about Terrence Malick, I'll take a, I don't know the DP, but I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna talk with a show creator, Breaking Bad, Vince, right?

6:43Kim MilesYeah.

6:43Jawad MirAnd, Breaking Bad is, if you really pay close attention, majority of the show is handheld. A lot of the…

6:53Kim MilesYeah

6:53Jawad Mir... Sequences are handheld, as opposed to Better Call Saul, which is like very, you know, nicely framed. But there's just something about…

6:59Kim MilesYeah

6:59Jawad Mir... Handheld, if it resonates with the characters and the story, which it does in Little House on the Prairies, then people just engage…

7:06Kim MilesYeah

7:06Jawad Mir... That it's handheld or not, right? They're just into it.

7:10Kim MilesYeah. And that's, that's the greatest victory, not victory, but that's, that's the success for me is when you're not, your attention isn't drawn to the camera or to the technique, you know, and that it's just, you're just swept up in the story. So that's, yeah. Good. Well, I'm glad you enjoyed that.

7:28Jawad MirAwesome. You know, kinda going through episode by episode, when Laura and Mary, I think it was, they become, they get lost in the prairies, right?... How did you use landscape to make something so beautifully suddenly feel frightening versus, you know, without relying too much on like, you know, thriller or horror kinda movie techniques, which I thought…

7:51Kim MilesRight

7:51Jawad Mir... Was a nice fresh approach.

7:54Kim MilesYeah. And that was an interesting challenge. That was a tricky one to do, because th… that grass was difficult to work in, and just infested with all sorts of creatures.

8:05Jawad MirWait a minute.

8:07Kim MilesYeah. Summertime in Winnipeg, there's a lot of stuff going on. But, I think we wanted, the things that we wanted to get across were, first of all, that they were almost underwater in this, in this ocean of, grass, you know? And, we initially had a bunch of drone shots planned to really show the acres of grass. But we thought, you know, that'll take us, for the same reasons we were just talking about with handheld, that doing drone shots will, w… will take us out of the show. So we didn't…

8:38Kim Miles... Wanna do that. We thought, you know, it'll be more interesting I think if we, if we definitely set the, set the table and see a wide shot of the grass, but then spend the rest of the time submerged in it with the girls, and running around and following them, and trying to stay as close as possible and wide so that we have them, the girls big in the foreground, but in a wide environment so we can always, we're always reminded of the, of the, environment that they're, that they're lost in, you know? It's always there. It's always kinda just looming on them. So I think it, yeah, I think our choice was to stay low, stay in the grass with them, stay close to the girls, and be lost with them, I think was the, was what we were after. And I think, I think we got away with it. We had a bunch of different ways we were doing it. We were pushing, initially we were pushing Technocranes through the, through the grass to follow them, and then we did a bunch of Steadicam through the grass and both of those were working for certain aspects of it, but at times they were like, they were limited by their own technology, you know?

9:44Kim MilesThe Techno could only do so much. The Steadicam…

9:46Jawad MirYeah

9:46Kim Miles... Would get caught in the grass and it ended up being y… handheld was the, again, the way to go, was to like just be there and live it with them, ended up being, you know, what was the most successful I thought. And Amy actually, again, was the first one to do handheld in there and really sold us on it. So yeah.

10:06Jawad MirAnd I think, because the period piece that it is, and I'm glad you mentioned drone shots. I made a big mistake on one of my first feature doc…... Which was in a remote village in Nova Scotia. All I did was like ridiculous amount of drone shots, and I, looking back, I'm like, "That was a terrible mistake." But you know, if you, i… i… Steadicams and drones and like dollies, where it seems very kinda like, you know, it seems like it's being used as a piece of equipment and tool…

10:37Kim MilesYeah

10:37Jawad Mir... It takes you away as oppo… because it's, the time period is different. Like for example, the show The Madison, which is by Taylor Sheridan…

10:43Kim MilesYeah

10:43Jawad Mir... And Michelle Pfeiffer, that sets in present time, so that's a little bit different, right? And…

10:48Kim MilesYeah

10:49Jawad Mir... So I'm glad that you guys figured that out, because I think that's what's a testament to the series. That's what spoke to me at least.

10:55Kim MilesOh, that's great. That's great. Yeah, that was, that was something that they explored very heavily in episode one. And like I was saying, you know, when we were looking at dailies, we were like, "I wonder if it's... It feels good, but is it the right language?"

11:07Jawad MirYeah.

11:07Kim MilesAnd I'm glad we kinda stuck with it, you know? We did, when we started episode two, we were on the, on the Techno quite a bit. Julianne Robinson, who directed, episodes two and three, who's a fantastic lady, was a little resistive to using the Techno. I think, I think her instincts were right that it was like maybe the wrong tool. And I think I got lost and I was trying to impress on her that, "Hey, you know, it's not, it's not just a crane for crane shots. We can use it to move the camera in amongst the cast and all that."

11:36Jawad MirYeah.

11:37Kim MilesAnd she wasn't really buying into that, and I think her instincts were absolutely correct, and that, and that we needed to come off of the head and be more handheld, more involved, and more, you know, inside people's personal space. I think that was, ultimately what set the tone I think for the rest of the, for the rest of the show. So yeah.

11:56Jawad MirAmazing.

11:56Kim MilesYeah.

11:56Jawad MirDid you Re… even before, not just necessarily before the show, but did you ever watch the original Little House on the Prairies…

12:03Kim MilesYes

12:03Jawad Mir... Or Road to a… Road to Avonlea or Anne of Green Gables?

12:07Kim MilesYeah, the Canadian, yeah. No, the…

12:09Jawad MirYeah

12:09Kim Miles... Well, growing up in Malaysia, as you know, we had three channels, two of which were in Malay, and then the third channel was split between English and Tamil and Chinese shows. And Little House was one of the shows that was deemed appropriate for Malaysian audiences by the government at the time.

12:26Jawad MirOf course. Of course.

12:27Kim MilesSo always g… it was that and Magnum, PI, so go figure. But, so I'd always grown up with it, and then when this show got announced, before I was involved in it, I thought we should watch them again. And there's something about those, that original show. Like the, you know, it's very patriarchal and very Christian in a lot of ways, but the fundam… it f… it always feels like there's a fundamental desire to tell a story or to tell a story about characters that are just trying to do the right thing, and that's something that's been missing for a long time, you know, with… in contemporary entertainment. It just, people just trying to make the best of what they can, what they have and what they can, you know, get away with. So th… so watching the series again was very eye-opening, and, boy, lighting chi… lighting, techniques have changed in the…... In the 50 years. But it was nice to sort of ground myself, I think, in how they did it the first time and what was endearing about the first show, before embarking on this one, even though this one really has very little to do with the, you know, with the original show, other than sharing the title and being based on the same books.

13:46Kim MilesBut, yeah, it was, it was, definitely watched the, original series, all nine seasons of it.

13:54Jawad MirOh my God, you actually watched the ninth season? That's awesome.

13:57Kim MilesYeah.

13:58Jawad MirWell, I guess it's work-related, so you can, you can justify the time spending on it, right?

14:02Kim MilesYeah.

14:02Jawad MirBecause you're prepping yourself.

14:04Kim MilesYeah. If only I could put a time sheet in somewhere.

14:10Jawad MirI, you know, in the episode, I think it's called News of the World…

14:14Kim Mileshuh

14:14Jawad Mir... There is, the episode is a lot about uncertainty, right? Like, how did you visually communicate the dream of the setting on the prairie that might not be as secure as the family had imagined? Like, how did that sort of conceptualize in your head? I know it's, like, different…

14:33Kim MilesThat's interesting

14:34Jawad Mir... DPs, right?

14:35Kim MilesYeah. Interesting, that's interesting. That was one of my episodes. It, I don't know if we ever actually sort of sat and thought, like, thematically how we were going to, put that uncertainty on the screen. That was episode seven, wasn't it, News of the World? Or that, was that…

14:56Jawad MirNo, it was episode three

14:57Kim Miles... Three? Okay.

14:58Jawad MirSeven.

14:58Kim MilesSo that was Julian.

15:00Jawad MirYeah.

15:01Kim MilesYeah, I think, I think we just let it sort of live off the, sorry about that, live off the page, you know? It, we, our philosophy was always to keep lenses kind of wide and always keep the environment present, you know? And all, I mean, after all the, you know, prairie's in the title of the show. And I think always juxtaposing our characters and their human decisions in the context of the world around them was always very important to us. And I think given that philosophy, just the way that the scripts turned, the way that the writing went towards that uncertainty, and the performances were so, were so fantastic from the cast, that our photography or our photographic philosophy just kind of helped, reinforce, you know, what was going on in the story. So I guess in a way it was kind of accidental, but I think if we're, if our philosophy was always to tell the s… the human story in the context of the environment, that it was sort of designed to accidentally…

16:11Kim Miles... Go that way, you know?

16:14Jawad MirYeah. And the wide frame, you and I have talked about this before when we've chatted, the wide frame actually aspect really works in this series, right? Because it is about the prairies.

16:23Kim MilesYeah.

16:24Jawad MirIt is about the landscape. Like, why not show it?

16:26Kim MilesYeah.

16:26Jawad MirLike, you know what I mean?

16:27Kim MilesYeah.

16:27Jawad MirLike, it's, and it sucks you in very intoxicantly. Like, it just really pulls you in. And I, and I love obviously the costumes, but being in that world, right, like, here you are living in present time, and then you go on the set. Is this your first period piece?

16:45Kim MilesOf, from this period, yes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

16:48Jawad MirSo being in that environment, did you cherish that how people…

16:55Kim MilesYeah

16:55Jawad Mir... Used to live with simplicity?

16:57Kim MilesYeah, absolutely. It's, it's amazing how little you need to just get on with things, you know? And in many ways the show, the way we made the show was like that also. You know, we had, we had the availability of all the toys, you know, that we can imagine. We had, you know, we talked about Technocranes. We had Technocranes full run a show. We had steady cam run a show and stuff. But then when we really got into character stuff, we always ended up boiling down to the lowest common denominator, which was just to grab a camera, put it on your shoulder, and tell the story as intimately as possible. So I think in many ways that sort of pioneering lifestyle, in a way, permeated into our filmmaking strategy as well, you know? Where, and it was always, it was always proven to us over and over again that less is always more. And the more you can break things down into their simplest value, the more, the more success you'd have in telling the story, you know?

18:05Jawad MirW… was there a time when you guys had to spend the night on location, like on set, and then you woke up one morning and you're like, you know, for a second that, "Where am I?" type of thing? Like there's no…

18:18Kim MilesYeah

18:18Jawad Mir... Technology.

18:20Kim MilesYeah. Yeah, there were many times where it was just like, "Wow," you know? Like, "This is so great." And the way that Jonah Markowitz, our production designer, had built the town and stuff, it was so believable, you know? We'd, we'd had conversations early on about, you know, there's a tendency when you're doing period films to make everything rustic and aged and brown and stuff, and it's like, but that's how those towns look to us now because they've been sitting out in the, in the weeds for 100 years, you know? Back then, they were full of color. They were vibrant. You know, maybe everything was covered in a layer of dust from all the stagecoaches and stuff going through and the horses.

19:00Jawad MirYeah.

19:00Kim MilesBut underneath all of that was color, and that was something that Jonah was very careful, in set design to create a... Always making sure that there were colors that would bleed through. Our costume designers were unbelievable, especially the Osage, costume, consultants, you know? All of that stuff was, the colors were just so mesmerizing. And, our challenge was to, was to show those colors but in a realistic kind of way that wasn't overbearing and didn't become too cartoony, you know?

19:37Jawad MirYeah.

19:37Kim MilesAnd I've, totally digressed here, but

19:40Jawad MirNo, you're fine. You're fine. You're fine.

19:42Kim MilesYeah.

19:42Jawad MirNo, that's, that's... It's, interesting you talked about the set. So one of the things that really stood out for me, it's a very simple scene about when they launched the post office. The man who was running the post office, the postman or whatever, the manager, he t… he talks about how this is, like, the opening the new way of the world, like, you know, letters coming in and all that.

20:05Kim MilesYeah. Yeah.

20:05Jawad MirI thought that was quite interesting that how... It's kinda similar to, like, globalization rightl… right now, right? Like the internet and the email and social.

20:14Kim MilesYeah

20:14Jawad Mir... Were you... I don't remember if that was episode two or three or one.

20:19Kim MilesTwo.

20:19Jawad MirWere you…

20:19Kim MilesI think it was two.

20:20Jawad MirTwo.

20:21Kim MilesYeah.

20:22Jawad MirWhat do you feel about... I'm going back. I'm gonna go to the sh… show in a second, but what do you feel about, again, that element of, you know, letters versus the way of the communication now?

20:36Kim MilesI... You know, the thing that blew me away about that, like, was, you know, in the writing there was, you know, Charles's, that once the post office opens, you know, they, like you say, they have that connection to the rest of the world, and his first thing is to get, you know, to look for the letter that's, that's his mortgage payment from the old. And the whole thing of it was like, how did, how did things work, you know, back then when there was so little infrastructure, but then at the same time you knew that when the post office opened that letter would get to you? Like, it was such a crazy juxtaposition of how things have changed. You know, nowadays, you know, you order something from online, and sure they say it's shipped, but you don't have any idea if it's actually gonna show up or if it's gonna show up on your doorstep and somebody's gonna come and steal it. And it was so life-affirming for me in a way, I guess, that back then, like, you could trust other human beings, you know, to do the right thing and to do their jobs to the best of their ability so that everything worked the way that it should regardless of how remote and how...

21:49Kim MilesYou know, it was a source of pride for people that they would get the job done, and that's something that's, that's so elusive nowadays, you know? And s… so many people are content just getting by and not, and really making a mark on the world by overachieving, you know? And back then you had to or you, or you just simply didn't make it, right? So that was, that was always really interesting. And, yeah, it's, it's a very interesting contrast with how we do things today, you know, where we have everything we could possibly want within arm's reach, but I don't trust it, you know, more than I'm sure they would have trusted the mail back then, you know?

22:31Jawad MirYeah. I urge you to spend the time in the r… in a small village in the east coast…

22:37Kim MilesYeah

22:37Jawad Mir... Or maybe... I spent a lot of time with my film, and, there, people leave their doors open.

22:44Kim MilesYeah.

22:44Jawad MirRight? Lo… unlocked. As soon as I enter the town, the whole village would know that I'm there because everybody would just call each other up.

22:51Kim MilesYeah.

22:51Jawad MirRight? And…

22:52Kim MilesYeah

22:52Jawad Mir... And the post office, the cool thing, and we were talking about the post office, so there was this house. This couple lived in there, and she was managing all the post office stuff.

23:01Kim MilesRight.

23:01Jawad MirSo everything would come to her house, and then she will sort it out…... And then just, you know, spread, put it in a small box, and people would come and get, take it. And I think that still exists. B… and I thoroughly enjoy that because…

23:16Kim MilesYeah

23:16Jawad Mir... It's like... Well, I mean, the downside is, like, the gossiping and all that, right, which you have to sort of...

23:23Kim MilesYeah. But you know what? People are gonna gossip anyway, and you might as well…

23:26Jawad MirTrue

23:26Kim Miles... Gossip face to face than gossip anonymously on, you know... That's such a... Yeah, the East Coast is so great that way. Like the humanity of it. The, not simplicity, but, you know, everything's so much more elemental on the East Coast, and life is so much more clear, I think…

23:49Jawad MirIt is. It is

23:49Kim Miles... To people, you know? Yeah, I love the Maritimes. It's just such a uniquely great part of the world. Yeah.

23:59Jawad MirYeah. Going back to the series, what was the most challenging part? Like a scene, not just from a technical or story standpoint, but even… Personally for you, was there anything that sort of emote a certain emotion? And I know you're trying to strike a, you know, keeping the professionalism side from your personal, but was there something that struck you a scene?

24:22Kim MilesYes. Yeah. When we were doing, episode seven… ... Which involved the signing of the treaty and all that stuff, all of those la… I mean, this show takes place in Kansas. My family on my dad's side is from Missouri.

24:40Jawad MirYeah.

24:40Kim MilesSo in many ways we're neighbors to the folks that were, you know, the pioneers, so to speak, in Kansas. And it wasn't until that episode, you know, and we had a bunch of, Osage elders and stuff join us to…

24:58Kim Miles... To be in the, in the treaty signing, sequences. And it wasn't until that episode that it really kind of landed on me that my family back in the 1800s was one of the families that displaced the Osage and the Cherokee and all these, all these First Nations from their, you know, ancestral lands. So I think that was a big, kind of emotional moment for me, I think wa… was realizing that I had as much, or our family had as much a part in the, in the displacement of all these people as anyone else. So it was nice to, I was able to... That sounds really selfish, but I was able to have a conversation with some of the elders and say, "Look, you know, my family was there."

25:51Jawad MirOh, wow.

25:51Kim MilesAnd was, you know, a… and not s… a… and it wasn't so much to, you know, ask for forgiveness or anything as dramatic as that, but to acknowledge the fact that, you know, 100 years ago, 200 years ago, that, you know, our families would have met in very different circumstances, you know? So that I think was a very life-affirming, unexpected, result of the show for me. And Sydney Freeman was our… Sydney Freeland, beg your pardon, was our director in that episode and she's of Native, descent, and I think she lives in New Mexico. So being able to sort of see the story through her eyes or to help her tell the story from her perspective was very rewarding indeed. You know, she was, she's one of the standout, memories I have of the show is working with her and, making her vision come to life.

26:54Kim MilesSo, yeah.

26:55Jawad MirMan, that's amazing, man. I, you know, on the flip side, 200 years ago, 150 years ago, when certain members of your family did what they did…

27:05Kim MilesYeah

27:06Jawad Mir... You know, they didn't know that somebody from their family would be documenting something like this and then talking to a person about them, right? So…

27:13Kim MilesYeah

27:14Jawad Mir... You have to look at it from the, that perspective that at least there's a positive in this, and that only happens when there's a negative in the past.

27:22Kim MilesYeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's really interesting how the, how the world works in so many ways.

27:30Jawad MirFor you working on this series, I mean, you talked about this, that sense of awareness. What... I mean, you may have answered this, but if there's something else that you can think of, what did you learn about yourself as a human being? Let's forget about the treaty and all that stuff for a second. Like, you know, whether it's how to talk to people, which you already know, right? But just…

27:54Kim MilesYeah

27:54Jawad Mir... Something else that sort of made you realize that, "Oh, shit, I've just learned something."

28:02Kim MilesI think, we talked a little bit about Julie Anne

28:07Jawad MirYeah

28:07Kim Miles... Robinson, who directed 102 and 103, and we had a little bit of a, not a rocky start, but we had, we didn't know one another. We hadn't worked with one another. And at first she was very protective of, what she considered to be her job responsibilities and what she considered to be mine. And at first I was very resi… not resistive to that, but you know, I've, I've been there and kind of seen that manifest itself in other directors before, and my initial reaction was to kind of, brace myself for, "Oh boy, here come two episodes where we're gonna be butting heads the whole time." but we discovered a way to, trust one another's instincts, I think, a little bit.

29:00Kim MilesAnd that happens every time you work with a new director, but I think it happened in a more pronounced fashion on this show, just because, you know, the s… the material itself was so different, and I think, having to focus on delivering the story in a way that, forced us not to just rely on contemporary methodologies, you know, like the Technocrane versus handheld, for example, really kind of forced us almost reluctantly into bonding together and creating something, that in hindsight was really, special. And, I think the takeaway for me was to be more open to other ideas. You know, like, and this is something that I've been struggling with for years, not being too jaded to, collaborate with directors.

30:03Kim MilesSo yeah. So the takeaway for me was to always just keep an open mind and let it, let things unfold. Let the… Let's listen, you know, in… instead of talking and, And you never know what you're gonna get. And I think in this case, it worked out really well. So I almost went to work with Julianne again in Calgary on, Granville Girls, which is a new, series that I think has been postponed a year for writing. But, another period piece on pioneering in Western Canada. So maybe that'll come up next year and, we'll get to work together again. So, yeah.

30:39Jawad MirThat's awesome. And it's interesting you talk about, and it's not just you or anybody else, I think we all have that. There's this preconceived notion when actors or crew members, like specifically the primary crew members, you know, nothing to take away from a spot boy or a grip or anything. I'm just talking about the ones that are directly engaged with directors and actors. Everybody has their version of the story because that's what makes everybody unique as human beings.

31:09Kim MilesYeah.

31:10Jawad MirWhy is that, do you think? Not just you or even me or anybody else, that we have these preconceived notions and we are not, we sometimes get res… re… resistant that somebody's trying to take over my story or my way of doing things.

31:26Kim MilesYeah. Yeah. I think it's all, for me, I think it's all ego dri… Well, I think it's a balance between being ego-driven on the one hand, and also maybe there's kind of a, there's kind of a laziness that's comfortable when you can preconceive something in a way that you've, that's, that's comfortable to you. You know? Like for, the Technocrane's another good example. Excuse me. So let's be on, let's be on the Technocrane 'cause I've used it a lot and, it's something that I trust and I know will give us the advantage of being able to move the camera a lot over uneven terrain instead of putting dolly track on. Let's use that. And that became very f… a very fixed kinda thing. It's logical, it makes sense. Let's use this equipment that they've given us, and get through the day. Whereas from Julianne's perspective, it was like, well, you know, she wasn't... A lot of, a lot of British filmmakers tend not to rely on equipment as much as we do here.

32:31Kim MilesSo I think her initial reaction was, "What do you mean do everything on the Technocrane? That's, that's ridiculous. The Technocrane's for doing big wides." so her perspective was like, "Let's just tell the story and let's not worry about what kinda gear that is." And then the more that she said that, the more I was like, "Well, yeah, but we can do it on the techno and get it done and not waste time laying dolly track." So I think it's, it's, you know, it's a, there's a level of comfort in suggesting that for me. There's, there's a definitely ego coming into play. Like, "Don't tell me how to move the camera." You know, that kinda thing. So I think, yeah, I think it's those two evils that get in the way the most when it, of developing new, of, not developing it, of, but of hearing new ideas. You know? Like I'm so busy trying to sell how I wanted to do it that I wasn't listening to what she was…

33:24Kim Miles... Trying to do, trying to achieve, you know? So.

33:27Jawad MirRight.

33:28Kim MilesYeah.

33:28Jawad MirMakes sense.

33:29Kim MilesYeah.

33:29Jawad MirJust to kinda wrap things up, you know, Little House on the Prairies has existed for a while ex… in people's hearts. Like, I mean, you being in Malaysia, I'm surprised that you watched it wh… all the way down there.

33:44Kim MilesYeah.

33:44Jawad MirAs a, as a cinematographer and, you know, how do you honor people's nostalgia by giving them the new a… adaptation? Like, was there any particular inspiration that you drew from the series as a, as a, original series as a DP that you said, you know, "Let's, let's try to tackle it this way?" what was it like set in your mind? I mean, watching nine seasons is a lot of brainwashing…... For the lack of better word.

34:11Kim MilesYeah. I think it was, no, I think there was a lot of, like the things that I, like from an emotional standpoint that I take from the original show are, you know, that nostalgia is comfortable and is, it, takes you back to a time when life was simpler. So that was important. And trying to, not so much to replicate that, but to invoke that sensibility, you know, that, into the new show.

34:40Kim MilesThat, you know, the juxtaposition of technology and human relationships against each other is interesting. And I think keeping the story true, I think, was important to me. And being, and that tr… you know, translates into how we move the camera, like we've talked about, and also into how we light the show or how I, you know. I always wanted to be as honest as possible. I didn't wanna draw any attention to how the show was lit.

35:11Kim Miles... And fortunately, Rebecca Sonnenshine, our showrunner, was very supportive of keeping things very natural and not letting things start getting over-lit, you know? Especially in interiors. You know, back then you had little tiny windows that…

35:28Jawad MirYeah

35:28Kim Miles... That barely let any light in. So that was a challenge to deal with. But I think, I think being, what I felt I could do most to kind of honor the original show was to, light it in a little bit less of a Hollywood way.

35:44Jawad MirAnd you did.

35:45Kim MilesAnd, but…

35:45Jawad MirAnd you got…

35:46Kim MilesYeah. No, thanks. And but also to preserve that sense of innocence and that sense of wonder and discovery and family, you know? It, by just being honest to, and embracing what was available to us in terms of light and shadow and, a… and framing and kinda run with it as much as possible without interfering with it, you know?

36:11Jawad MirNice. Lastly, you know, you filmed four episodes. Is there one scene that sort of stands out more for you that…... Invoke a certain emotion in the series, in the film? Like, it could be a landscape, because landscape itself is a character in the series, right?

36:31Kim MilesAbsolutely, yeah.

36:33Jawad MirYeah.

36:33Kim MilesThere's so many. Like, I…

36:37Jawad MirI know

36:37Kim Miles... Was always I was always blown away by, Warren Christie's performance, who played, Edwards. And I think my f… my favorite scene writing-wise was, or my favorite scenes I should say writing-wise, were always the ones where conflict came to the surface. And I think, the scene in episode two I think, when Caroline has been, become aware of Edward's drinking.

37:13Kim MilesAnd confronts him behind the house that he's, helping them build. I thought that was a really interesting scene, you know, and how his human frailty had, was juxtaposed in every frame that we shot in that scene, against the very thing that he was helping them to achieve, you know, by building the house with them.

37:36Jawad MirRight.

37:37Kim MilesAnd her, emotional journey from her father being an alcoholic, kind of got in the way of what he was trying to do to res… redeem himself, you know? So that's a scene that I really, I really love. The other one is when, is when Car… I can't remember what, I think it's episode three, when Caroline finally figures out that, or comes to the realization that Charles doesn't know that the land deal is done, and they confront each other in the, in the cabin at the end of the episode. That one I thought felt very raw and very honest and, yeah, I don't know. The, those conflicts are interesting to me and, you know, and, yeah.

38:30Jawad MirI wonder how much of that, how much of your likeness of those scenes has to do with your own personal stories and your…

38:39Kim MilesYeah

38:39Jawad Mir... Certainly certain experiences that you may don't want to remember, you don't remember?

38:45Kim MilesYeah, no, I don't think, like in terms of like the Edward scene, I think, I don't think... Like, we never had any, alcohols…

38:53Jawad MirOh

38:53Kim Miles... Or anything like that in the family. But I think I'm, I'm sensitive to the human struggle, and I think, I don't know, I'm just a sucker for good writing and good performances. And when those things come together, you know, and especially when they come together in a way that we can photograph in a really nice way…

39:12Jawad MirYeah

39:13Kim Miles... It's just magic, right? That's the, that's the joy of this, of this job for me, is when it's those elusive, magical moments. You know, like when Amy was, running around discovering the Terrence Malick camera, you know? And it was, that day was great. It was a sunset, like, it, the sunsets last forever in the prairies, right? And we'd had a particularly tough day of arguing about Technocranes that day, I remember.

39:43Jawad MirYeah.

39:43Kim MilesAnd then at the end of the day, we came off the Techno, we gave Amy the camera handheld, and shed all of that, conflict that we'd had earlier in the morning, and just found like one of the sort of, essential elements of the show, I think, in that. So, that would've been, that's another scene that I think…

40:06Kim Miles... I have a lot to take away from. Because it just, yeah, it wa… it was just, like an exhalation at the end of the day. And all of a sudden, letting go made all of this, like it just fell into itself and became, and came to life, you know?

40:22Jawad MirThat's awesome, man.

40:23Kim MilesYeah.

40:23Jawad MirThat's awesome. What's cooking next for you? Something you can ta…... Talk about?

40:28Kim MilesI'm doing second unit on The Last Of Us right now, which is…

40:32Jawad MirOkay

40:33Kim Miles... About as different from this show as you can possibly get.

40:36Jawad MirIt's season three, right, probably?

40:38Kim MilesSeason three, yeah. Yeah.

40:39Jawad MirYeah, I've only seen the first season so far.

40:41Kim MilesYeah. It's, you know, it's, it's another show that, I mean, I'm just doing second unit. We just shoot hands and feet and things on tables, and explosions and things. But, the writing on the show, not to blow sunshine, but Craig Mazin, the showrunner, is one of those really unique storytellers, you know? His, it, I mean, y… you look at his portfolio, he's got Chernobyl, he's got Last Of Us, which are both runaway HBO shows.

41:15Jawad MirRight.

41:16Kim MilesAnd then he's got Sheep Detectives, like thrown into the mix. Like, you know, here's a guy that just refuses to be, to be pigeonholed into a, into a…

41:28Jawad MirYeah

41:28Kim Miles... A genre, and is able to deliver, like super compelling stories. So f… so doing second unit on it is kinda interesting, 'cause I'm kind of at arm's length, and I get to watch the other two DPs deal with telling the story. And it's a really interesting kind of sociological experiment to sit back and watch it unfold, but still be kind of part of the family in a way. But yeah, it's, it's really neat. Yeah.

41:54Jawad MirHave they ever come up to you and asked you for any ideas and breaks and stuff? Or you've given them any thoughts? Or is it just…

42:01Kim MilesNo, I…

42:01Jawad Mir... Kinda like professional, distant?

42:03Kim MilesYeah, no, we all collaborate together. I tend not to get involved too much in how they're interpreting

42:12Jawad MirRight

42:12Kim Miles... The scripts. But, there's times when we get to light a scene that no one else has shot, you know, if it falls off their schedule and ends up on ours. So I get to contribute that way from a creative standpoint.

42:23Jawad MirThat's awesome.

42:24Kim MilesSo that's kinda fun. But no, we all, we all get along really well. It's, it's, it's, it's Ksenia Sarita and, Ola Bjorklund are the other two DPs. And it's a super... Like I do a lot of testing. You know, when they're trying to, "Oh, we're gonna look for a new way to move the camera," this, and I'm like, "I'll, leave it to, like, tell us what you're after. We'll test it and send you the data so you can look at it, or you can come to the test." So we do a lot of that, a lot of helping each other out, which is, which is a lot of fun. And, but it's, it's about as different a show as it could be from Little House, in scale and everything else. Yeah.

43:00Jawad MirI gotta, I gotta give you credit, it's not easy to go from being DP to second unit. Normally it's the other way around, right?

43:09Kim MilesYeah.

43:09Jawad MirAnd I'm, and that requires having no ego, so kudos to you. That you're able to…

43:16Kim MilesWell, yeah. I'm learning.

43:18Jawad Mir... Be able to pull that off. Because second unit is very important, right? Like it's, it's, obviously…

43:24Kim MilesYeah

43:24Jawad Mir... You're not dealing with directly but it's been, it's been amazing, Kim. I really hope and wish you all the best, and let's…

43:33Kim MilesThanks

43:33Jawad Mir... Keep in touch and keep chatting.

43:35Kim MilesYeah.

43:35Jawad MirAnd if you're ever in Toronto, please hit me up.

43:38Kim MilesYes. We'll grab dinner or something. That'd be great.

43:41Jawad MirAwesome. Thank you so much, Kim, for your time.

43:43Kim MilesYeah.

43:43Jawad MirAnything else you wanna add on…

43:44Kim MilesThank you

43:44Jawad Mir... At the end?

43:46Kim MilesNo. Other than, yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing it, but, or listening to it, yeah.

43:52Jawad MirAwesome.

43:52Kim MilesOkay.

43:52Jawad MirThanks, Kim.

43:53Kim MilesBye.

43:53Jawad MirTake care, buddy.

43:54Kim MilesHave a good afternoon.