AMC+ 'Kill Jackie', Editor, Byron Smith

0:00Jawad MirThe way episode two wrapped up, I wasn't expecting that at all. The buildup was, there was sometimes, you know, you get hints and stuff. I di… I didn't find that at all. Like, I wasn't…

0:10Byron SmithRight. Right. The... I didn't either, and that was something, that was something that, like, maybe what you first asked about what it was like… ... When I first read the script, and I didn't get to read the book. I wish I did. And I kind of wanna read the book now.

0:24Jawad MirYes.

0:25Byron SmithActually, when, and when we were trying to find the tone, when, you know, I saw the end of episode two, I was like, "This is gonna be awesome. This is really special." It was a huge twist.

0:42Jawad MirThe reason it made you feel that way in Me Too was a scene that preceded it because it…

0:47Byron SmithOh, yeah

0:48Jawad Mir... Right?

0:48Byron SmithOh, yeah.

0:48Jawad MirKind of set up, like, an emotional tone there.

0:50Byron SmithYeah. They let me play. There were some things in episode one, the way episode, some things about the way episode one ended, we discovered in the edit together. We pushed some things further the way the episode one ended. There are some things that wasn't always in episode one. I mean, I wanna, like... Oh, gosh, I could really spoil something, but there is a big thing at the end of episode one that was in episode two.

1:24Jawad MirSo the third time, 1923, Lucky, and now Kill Jackie with Catherine Zeta-Jones.

1:32Byron SmithYeah. It's great. I'm so glad you're taking the time, and, you got to watch a little bit about it, a little bit of it.

1:43Jawad MirI saw the first two episodes.

1:46Byron SmithYeah.

1:47Jawad MirYeah.

1:47Byron SmithYeah. Good.

1:49Jawad MirSo it's, it's, it's really good, and honestly, the, one of the first things it reminded me of was, I don't know why, was, Entrapment. I don't know if you remember, with Sean Connery and Catherine Zeta-Jones that came out in the late '90s, I think, when Zeta-Jones…

2:04Byron SmithOh, no

2:04Jawad Mir... Was kind of emerging. You probably have seen it.

2:07Byron SmithNo.

2:07Jawad MirIt's about, like

2:11Byron SmithYeah

2:11Jawad Mir... Jewel robbery and all that.

2:14Byron SmithMan, I think I never saw it. I just saw, though, something about a clip of her and, you know, her co-star Eames talking about Sean Connery and remembering. I wish I had seen the whole clip now. Yeah, but yeah, but no, I remember seeing the trailer. I remember I was younger then. That movie looked…... Like I would wanna see it. It would've been something that my dad would've really liked, but, or where, you know, whoa, I bet she looked good in the movie, in that movie. I'll have to, I'll have to see it.

2:52Jawad MirI'm looking forward to being there.

2:53Byron SmithI just drove home.

2:54Jawad MirOh, did you?

2:55Byron SmithYeah., huh. We've been working in an office.

3:00Jawad MirSame show or another show?

3:02Byron SmithSafe Houses. Yeah, same show. Safe Houses.

3:05Jawad MirOh, S… Safe Houses, so not Kill Jackie, Safe Houses. When is that out?

3:11Byron SmithIt probably won't be out until…

3:14Jawad MirNew year?

3:14Byron Smith... March. Yeah.

3:16Jawad MirYeah.

3:16Byron SmithThey're, they're, they're kind of like, they've, they've hinted March, April, maybe May, but probably March. Honestly, I think March.

3:26Jawad MirOkay.

3:26Byron SmithIt'll start…

3:27Jawad MirYeah

3:28Byron Smith... Rolling out once a week. We've, we've locked four episodes, which are two of mine.

3:34Jawad MirAmazing.

3:35Byron SmithYeah. Yeah. There's a lot of…

3:38Jawad MirGood for you, man.

3:39Byron SmithIt's exciting. Yeah, it's just about just keep moving and trying to keep hustling some work. That's the…

3:45Jawad MirYou… you gotta, man, because…

3:46Byron Smith... What's the game

3:47Jawad Mir... One is, whenever there is a little bit of a break, then it becomes…

3:52Byron SmithYeah

3:52Jawad Mir... A pattern, you know? So you just wanna keep in that momentum as long as it continues. There will be a time when they will kinda slow down, but until then, just keep rolling with it, man. Keep taking it.

4:02Byron SmithExactly. Exactly.

4:04Jawad MirWonderful, man.

4:05Byron SmithYeah, taking it… ... And making the most of it, yeah.

4:08Jawad Mir100%. Well, let's move to Kill Jackie. So your first reaction on reading the script versus… ... Your first reaction of seeing the footage.

4:22Byron SmithWell, that's funny. They brought me on. I didn't read the script first.

4:26Jawad MirOkay, so you just went straight to the edit room.

4:29Byron SmithPeter, the producer, he just called me, and I went straight to the edit room. It was, it was already being filmed, and there was some cutting. I, it was a show that I kind of inherited, and, there were, there were editors there before me. They were already up and running. I wasn't available. I was on Lucky.

4:56Byron SmithAnd Peter, Lawson, my old friend, thought that I could give it a little, personal touch to it because he... It didn't have a home in the United States, and he's really enthusiastic, ambitious producer, and he lives overseas, and, called me again a couple months later and said, "Hey, I'm really trying to find the tone of this piece and hoping that maybe you can help me find a home for it in the United States and in North America." And…

5:39Jawad MirSure

5:39Byron Smith... And so his persistence, you know, you know, sold me on it to come into it. And I, the, yeah, so I saw some early, I saw some early cuts and just kinda just kind of like, you know, collaborated with some of the other editors, and then those editors naturally kinda, like, moved on to other projects.

6:07Byron SmithAnd they had things already lined up And the, so actually we really transformed the edits. So the, so the, so I came along and just really, adjusted some tone, but then helped, you know, move the, move the edit into, like, help it find itself and help it find its tone.

6:45Byron SmithAnd they were... It was, it's really special 'cause it's lush, 'cause it's, like, a little stylistic. It's a definitely a, it's, it's fun.

6:58Jawad MirYeah.

6:58Byron SmithIt lets you laugh. It's action and comedy, and when it's dangerous, it's really dangerous. When it's bad, it's really bad. When it's dark, it's really dark, at times. But, you know, it's, it's... The, I was sitting around, I was reminded that I've been sitting around with a lot of friends, and we talk about, like, old movies from the '80s or '90s. And we're like, "Gosh, some shows just don't, aren't allowed to have fun," and we miss…

7:31Byron Smith... Those movies. And, Peter was kinda like, "I kinda miss those movies." And, he was one of them, and he said, you know, "Let's, let's try to go as far as we can." And, so that's what, that's what we were doing, you know? And, helping Jackie, you know, get her footing, and so you could really lock in. You know, 'cause just this, she's this, like, really, independent, sexy woman, w… you know, and, she's Welsh, and she's, you know, w… so we had a lot of fun. She's got this dark past. She's trying to be a straight edge, and she's getting just, like, sucked back into, you know, you know, her past. So that's, that's where we were. That's what we were doing, you know? It... W… yeah.

8:32Byron SmithWhat did you, how did you feel about it?

8:36Jawad MirIt felt y… so it had a very similar tone, which I want to get into, as Lucky did.

8:42Byron SmithYeah. Yeah.

8:44Jawad MirRight? Because, I mean… ... You worked on it, plus… ... Not that they're same, but the thematics, you know, it's like a thriller. It's like, you know

8:53Byron SmithYeah

8:54Jawad Mir... Lot of, backgrounds stuff going, which I don't wanna reveal too much, but… ... I, for me, the biggest thing was one of the thing, the key thing that you said was the fun part, and that… ... You know, and again, I talk about this over and over again, I'm sick and tired of talking about it, but I love talking about, is, like, the colors were there, which is…

9:14Jawad Mir... I'm so glad to see that it's coming back slowly, right? And it's, and that's one of the reason it makes it fun. So… ... You ta… you talked about tone, finding the tone. For the audience, how do you find tone?

9:28Byron SmithYou…

9:29Jawad MirWhat's the process of that?

9:32Byron SmithYeah, sometimes there's a fine line, and it is good when y… it's funny how you're kinda, like, just a little bit too much can really turn it, into a circus. And it can be, kinda like fully Ocean's 11 in a bad way. Kinda like turning into an Ocean's 11 type, like, franchise that, where, you know, b… but it doesn't, that wasn't the intention. It doesn't wanna be that. It wants to be closer to something like Killing Eve or The Gentlemen, you know

10:10Byron Smith... And, you know, or something like that. And, it was kinda like we were, we were really, you know, thinking about the Coen brothers and what the Coen brothers would do. You know, we were, you know, sort of influenced, like, what if the Coen brothers had gotten a hold of that

10:32Jawad MirInteresting

10:33Byron Smith... You know, that project, you know, Atomic Blonde, that they, that they didn't… ... Do, but, like, what if they did that? So that was kind of a marker, you know? And that, it was, it was a little bit of, like, also, like, you know, maybe, like, what Guy Ritchie, you know, if, you know, he was, you know, an inspiration. And yet kinda just, like, take... There's, i… it's not just Catherine. It, there's actually every cast member had a special gift as well.

11:13Jawad MirYeah.

11:13Byron SmithAnd, so there, the, you know, and the, and yeah, like you said, I just, when I think of the project, I think of color, and I think… ... Of the characters and how they kind of each have their own color, you know? And it's vibrant, and it's rich. It's, and it's very, you know, it's kinda, like, almost color forward, you know? There's, y… y… like, Catherine is regal, and, you know, she's almost, like, this, you know, this, violet, this p… this purple. You know, almost, you know, well, just, like, this very feminine, you know, red, you know, purple color. Then The Yank, you know, is, like, blue, and, you know… Ing's plays probably like Green's. So and then, and then each character then you start to meet the enemies.

12:23Byron SmithYou start to meet the adversaries, and they themselves are like a pack of collecting cards, you know? You know, and each one has a special skill set. So everyone has, everyone is kind of a character that has a skill set from a video game. And…

12:42Jawad MirInteresting

12:43Byron Smith..., You know, each story, you know, the Cuban, you know, you meet, you meet the first demon, you know, and it's the Cuban, you know.

12:57Jawad MirYeah

12:57Byron SmithAnd he's, you know, smoking a cigar. And the, just some of the things, it's h… it's, it's hilarious. It's, it's, it's, it's really funny. You know, it…

13:09Jawad MirYou know, you ta… sorry, go on, please.

13:12Byron SmithNo. What were you saying?

13:14Jawad MirI was gonna say, you know you talked about Ocean's 11, right? So to me, it reminded me in terms of tone. Now, that movie was a little darker because it was shot in film. I don't know if you remember… ... Sneakers.

13:29Byron SmithOh, wow. Wow, I love that show.

13:32Jawad MirSneakers.

13:32Byron SmithI love that movie.

13:33Jawad MirSidney Pollack directed it. Sydney Poiter was in it. Robert Redford was in it.

13:38Byron SmithOh, yeah.

13:39Jawad MirI think Angela Bess… I think Angela Bes… was in it. I don't remember, but those were the, it was a big cast. It was like Ocean's 11… ... Was kinda like, a, kinda like a funny version of Sneakers. Sneakers had humor too, but it wasn't like the way Ocean's 11 and 12 and 13 was, and this one had a similar kind of a feel to it.

14:00Jawad MirAnd the way the episode two… ... The way episode two wrapped up, I wasn't expecting that at all. I mean, it was just the way the buildup was. There was sometimes, you know, you get hints and stuff. I didn't, I didn't find that at all. Like, I wasn't s… I wasn't anticipating that.

14:18Byron SmithRight. Right. The, I didn't either, and that was something, that was something that, like, maybe what you first asked about what it was like… ... When I first read the script, and I didn't get to read the book. I wish I did. And I kind of wanna read the book now. It makes me, it's almost like the show wants it to drive me to read the book. And but…

14:39Jawad MirInteresting

14:40Byron Smith... Yes, actually, when, and when we were trying to find the tone, when, you know, I saw the end of episode two, I was like, "This is gonna be awesome. This is really special." And this is why, you know, I was really, I was really, it was a huge twist that I didn't even see. Now we've got all these shows, and we do see a twist in the pilot, and we see, you know, or we see a twist, that we, that we don't see coming, and I really, you know, y… you know, I cried. And I re… it affected me, 'cause here we are talking about a comedy, and it made me cry. And I thought that's really special, that it was able to, make me feel that way. You know, that was a…

15:36Jawad MirAnd you know, the reason it made you feel that way, and me too, was a scene that preceded it, right? Without me getting into it too…

15:45Byron SmithRight. Oh, yeah

15:45Jawad Mir... Because, right?

15:47Byron SmithOh, yeah.

15:47Jawad MirKind of set up, like, an emotional tone there.

15:49Byron SmithYeah.

15:50Jawad MirAnd

15:52Byron SmithYeah

15:52Jawad Mir... And that's, that's what made it so interesting because again, that emotional tone wasn't expected. I'm like, where the hell did that come from?

16:00Byron SmithRight.

16:00Jawad MirRight? So, but that…

16:02Byron SmithI'm glad that you mentioned that

16:03Jawad Mir... That, 'cause that goes in editing, too, right? Obviously, it's from writing, but you know, film is like, or a TV show…

16:10Byron SmithRight

16:10Jawad Mir... When you're editing it, you're sort of rewriting it in a way or giving it a little different flavor, and that's what, you know, the producer wanted you to do, is to find a tone, and you did. And

16:20Byron SmithWe did do some re… yes, we did some rewriting. We did. And they let me explore.

16:29Jawad MirGood.

16:29Byron SmithThey let me play. There were some things in episode one, the way episode, some things about the way episode one ended, we discovered in the edit together. And we pushed some things further the way the episode one ended. There are some things, that wasn't always in episode one. I mean, I wanna, like, oh, gosh, I could really spoil something, but, there's a big thing at the end of episode one that was in episode two, actually. B… and to, but to your point, yes, that is something we heightened in that the way that episode two ends, when I was working with, you know, our writers and the producers, you know, Tom Butterworth, who wrote the script, extremely extraordinary, l… so classy, so tasteful writer, and Peter Lawson, you know, ambitious, larger than life producer, he, y… y… y… they, he, the two of them are just, you know, a hugely high complementary team of one of, you know, they complement each other so well.

17:47Byron SmithThey mix like chemistry, and they just, and they f… they pull out a project like this with this wow. There was, you know, at the end of episode two is magical. You know, I really thought a lot of women are gonna want to see this show. If they see this, if they, we really pull this out, you know, that story out, women are gonna gravitate towards this. And I was, I was, and I gotta tell you, I'm really, I really am glad to hear you… Who've just seen this mention this because it was something we were fighting for in the edit room, that in the early edits it wasn't that strong. It just simply wasn't. And that storyline wasn't there, and that specialness was kind of glanced by. It was, it was kind of like just, like skipped along on the s… on the surface of the water without getting deep.

18:52Byron SmithAnd no, I was, I was like, this... And that is why I cried at the end of the s… you know, at the end of episode two. And it's this real, you know, feminine story, and when you've got a matriarch, when you've got, or when you've got this heroine, right, that you can believe in, then it is, you know,.. She's, she's com… a complete woman, but she's also really masculine. She's also a badass. She's also, like, a warrior, you know? And she's also, like she's a shining knight, a feminine, this, you know, if she... You n… you might think that she was just a knight dressed in armor, but then you reveal that she's a woman, you know? And that's a g… and then that's a twist itself, you know, because she's, she's like, she's emboldened, she's brazen, she's got this hard exterior, right?

19:56Byron SmithBut she's more than that, and that is a huge part of her past, you know? And then you start to see these flashbacks. Then in the first three episodes, you get a different flashback, and there was a lot of that going on. There was a lot of show game going on, very early, and there was a scene that they reshot it, that was a reshoot that we added after the fact. And, Peter went to Tom, you know, and they, and they put their heads together and they said, "Let's create... Let's, let's, let's dig into her backstory a little bit. Put it forward." And then Peter and I, you know, did w… weeks of re-editing, a really s… a really short, say, you know, I don't know how long it is, like a 50-second scene. And we took it really seriously. We really, you know, talking about how you can, how you can walk a fine line and then easily spill,...

21:04Byron SmithYou know, and make a mess and ruin maybe a soufflé. We worked on those flashbacks. We ground them into the ground, you know, and we kept polishing the stone of it, and we kept, we kept grinding away. We tried everything. We used every frame. And we worked harder than anything else in the whole entire series, you know, were those flashbacks, in the hotel room. I gotta tell you, there was even, like, at the time, Catherine was not available for the initial reshoot, and the initial reshoot of that hotel room, she wasn't available, and we were kind of like toying with the idea, do we really... Is, do, is this the flashback we wanted? We didn't, you know, Peter didn't, you know...

22:04Byron SmithHe's really frugal, and he was, like, trying to, like, you know... They didn't wanna fly Catherine in to do that shoot, so they had a stand-in, and,... She was not in li… you know, she wasn't, she wasn't lit. And it was a… it was all like it was actually our own test for ourselves that, is this correct? And, it was then later there was a second reshoot that was much later, I believe it was then all the way until last November, that then w… we decided, okay, we think we have it, and we said, "Okay, let's get Catherine to do it," and then we brought her back. And then that same, director came back, that, those producers came back together one more time in Bilbao. They shot again, and they shot just Catherine's side.

23:05Byron SmithAnd man, Catherine's, when sh… when Catherine arrived on set, she was that character again. She stepped into her wardrobe again, and she just, like, lit it up, and then she made this scene perfect. And maybe those weeks of grinding that we, that took us so much time to really do… Sure... We maybe we just needed Catherine. We needed Catherine all along. Because once we shot her, I mean she's magic. Yeah. Then she's just like, she's really... Catherine is a sensational actress. She's, I'm, I'm, I'm her biggest fan. She's my, she's my number one collaborator from the other side of the world who I've never even been in a room with. And, you know, I really... She's, she's one of the best actors I've ever had the chance to edit, you know? I mean, she never took a takeoff. She never, you know, she never went easy on herself.

24:06Byron SmithShe never went... She was always working, and when I could see or when I could feel that there was, that there was a speed bump on set, she has this amazing, you know, magical wizardry that she's able to protect herself or the character. She's actually able to protect the character. And when they say that, like, when things aren't going quite right, maybe when the light isn't perfect, maybe… Sure She's one of those, she's w… she's a real movie star. So that's the thing. When Catherine showed up in that scene, the movie star had arrived and, you know, a real actress had entered the chat, so to speak. She was protecting herself, she was protecting the character, she was protecting the audience, and then she never took a single takeoff. And I could always see, and I would just roll, I would just keep playing, keep playing, even when small adjustments were going on. She never stopped working.

25:08Byron SmithShe just never does. And I was always like... And then later on in other episodes, specifically episode five, you know, I gotta tell you that I was stealing small little m… little moments and pauses from the most bizarre outtakes, right? That you might, you know, overlook. I watched, I studied every single one of her frames because I used it and I utilized it. The studio, Fremantle, wrote this long email in response to that episode and said it was, you know, astounding. That episode, you know, was beautiful. That it was, that was really something s… that it was a special series.

26:03Jawad MirThat's amazing, man. That's really amazing. I mean, Zeta-Jones, she was discovered in the mid…'90s by Stephen Spielberg from Ma… Mask of Zorro, and since then, I mean, I think she was around for a good 10, 12 years, or 13 years, and then she disappeared for the longest time, right?

26:22Jawad MirWhatever her… ... Whatever her reasons were, which were, which were fine, but I am really glad to see her back. And you talk about the flashbacks, and it's so interesting. So I mean, y… you know, she sh… I… I don't know what's her age, but I'm guessing she's in her 60s, maybe 50s, but, she…

26:39Jawad Mir... When the flashback, when the flashback happened, like, you obviously have to de-age her, right? And I was really looking at the movement of the lip, the skin, because the technology is there and it's improving.

26:52Byron SmithYeah.

26:52Jawad MirI was trying to see how... I could not, I could not find one problem with the de-aging technology. Like, you know, I remember when with…

27:01Byron SmithOh, did... Yeah

27:02Jawad MirI di… I didn't see it. I remember when Martin Scorsese's film came out with Robert De Niro and Pacino, was it, was it them? I think it came out, like, five, six years ago. I forget the name. They de-aged them, and you could tell it, the skin was kinda like, you know, bubbly a little bit. But I think what you guys did was, and this is my guess, so she didn't really move much of her head and face too much other than her lip movement, and that was it. And other than that, when she was running through the, I think it was a kitchen, it was a wider shot, so I'm guessing it was, like, a stand-in of some sort that did, or a stunt lady. But yeah, I didn't pick that up, and I thought it was really well done. That, you know, that moment could have ruined the entire series.

27:45Jawad MirLike, you know, when you, when you can tell, "Oh, it's crappy effects," but no, it wasn't. It was amazing.

27:52Byron SmithRight. It was a challenge for them, of course. They were, they were prob… they were trying to do a lot in a single day. It was, it was,.. And of course, I mean, think of all the other things about Catherine and what they were asking to h… you know, to carry a shotgun in heels, you know, kind of, you know, so to speak. And for her to,.. She was, like, having to juggle, you know, and run at full speed. They, it could've, it could've really been messy. And there wasn't a lot of material, and particularly…

28:47Byron Smith... The director did a great job, you know. And but that was before we had the full flashback established. And…

28:58Jawad MirYeah.

28:59Byron SmithYeah, exactly. They did know that they were wanting to ha… that they were wanting this to be a flashback, and so they wanted this to be when she was younger. And they, and they did, a lot of research about which company to use to be proper. There, that was from the onset. They worked really hard. They really did. They were trying... You know, there were a lot of classy, really good artists involved

29:27Jawad MirYeah

29:28Byron Smith... You know, all the way down to, you know, and it, and it was, and it was just everything, all the steps down in post, you know, that everybody was, like, really, you know, being thoughtful, you know. It wasn't just another American series, you know, pers… per se. You know, every... There were a lot of classy, smart people, like, involved.

29:52Jawad MirOh, it's a great…

29:52Byron SmithYeah

29:52Jawad Mir... Show, man. So far, so far so good. And which brings me to my next question. How important were music and sound in telling the story of these characters from an editor's standpoint?

30:08Byron SmithYeah. Amazing. It was,.. I gotta say, I never thought we were gonna have the music that we, you know, ended up with. I never really thought, we would be able to afford. And I didn't take, you know, some of that seriously.

30:36Byron SmithIt, and I also didn't, I also didn't know. They just asked me To help with the tone. So of course, music would…

30:45Jawad MirOf course

30:45Byron Smith... A major part of that, you know.

30:48Jawad MirYeah.

30:48Byron SmithAnd that is where, because it kinda did feel a little Oceans, like an Oceans, 11, you know, franchise. And…

30:59Jawad MirYeah

30:59Byron Smith... So you're right. Those pieces of music, when I first came on, early on… ... I had a music meeting phone call, with three people, and they were all in Australia.

31:18Jawad MirGot it.

31:19Byron SmithYeah. And this, and so on there we had a music editor, who I was gonna, you know, this was just somebody that I was just introduced to over the phone, Emily Swanson, who, you know, came to become, you know, one of my creative partners and somebody who I relied on really heavily because I was recutting and I kind of had to cut at a real, at a real speed. She had ne… she had never, I, we'd not met, I didn't know anything about her, but it could not... It was almost like, y… yes, we needed to go that far, and we needed to go to someone like her, who, is a musician, singer herself, and, that kind of talent, you know, she really brought. I cannot tell you enough, Jawad, like, how special she was. But then the other person, the other component on that meeting was when I met Andrew Cataco, and I might be butchering his last name.

32:28Byron SmithHe's, Cataco. A… Andrew, he was also from Australia and a brilliant music supervisor, a wealth of knowledge, an incredible... I've never, I have not in a long time worked with someone th… you know, as special as what he brought.

32:51Byron SmithThis kind of energy. He had this enthusiasm and energy and this wealth of, like, authentic sounds and authentic... So if you have a place and you're in San Sebastian, Spain, he knew the kind of music that would be in a scene. And…

33:13Jawad MirWow

33:13Byron Smith... But then he had, yeah, he had this, like, he's g… he has this, like, taste where we were pulling these pieces of music, and you've only seen two episodes, and you're already talking about this, you know, about how the music is special. Because every single episode, I don't know how much w… money we spent, but this, but there's a soundtrack is coming forward, and this is the kind of thing that we don't do anymore, right? And this whole series is rich. Just like we were talking about color, the music is amazing, and Andrew, the music supervisor, is now on the map with Apple. I know they are. I've talked to Apple executives, and they're like, "Do you know this guy named Andrew?" And I'm like, "You're in good hands." And, because he's really, 'cause he made a humongous impact. I have a really special story. I've got so many special stories with Emily because she was, like, sending me these music edits, actually. You know, pieces of pa… of, like, classical music and, like, she was just putting them up to the T perfectly.

34:15Byron SmithYou know, I mean, like, all these, all these... We had Groove Armada, we had, you know, Blondie. I can't even remember all the, all the songs, even in the first two episodes. But they were pitching me ideas as, y… you know, we were turning things over. But, there was a moment at the end of episode six where it was, y… I was working, you know, with Au… on Australia hours sometimes because Peter…

34:49Jawad MirRight

34:50Byron Smith... Peter's in Australia also. Tom Butterworth is in London. I'm in Los Angeles.

34:58Jawad MirNice.

34:58Byron SmithSo the whole show was we were triangulated. You know, my assistant, Brandon, was in, is in Pennsylvania.

35:07Jawad MirWow

35:07Byron Smith... You know. Yeah. I gotta tell you, at the end of episode six, I, because I literally, I called at 9:30 my time at night and I said, "Andrew, I've got..." I just told him a 15-second... I said, "This is a s… this is the end of the, of episode six. This is what I need to bring out that it's missing. And it's the same thing as episode two."

35:34Byron SmithOkay? And he says, he tells me one song, and I said, "I need something in 30 seconds because we've gotta send this to Fremantle." And he tells me one song, and Emily did the edit in, I think, five minutes. And I put, I dropped it in, we sent it away, and that is what is in the show now.

36:03Jawad MirOh, wow.

36:04Byron SmithAnd it's in... Yes. That is how. That is, like, we, I mean, like, we were an entire, you know, us as a company with so many good assistant editors, post staff, everyone involved, it's like we were, you know, a nuclear editing warhead. You know, we were, we were, you know, a pretty powerful team, you know? And music is a huge of it.

36:31Jawad MirThat is, that's incredible. Yeah. The very fact that you were able to keep it, I mean, gives me goosebumps, right? Like, it's just so cool. You know, sometimes you spend weeks if not months to come up with a track… And I th… and I al… and it goes back to that whole theory that I always talk about, and I think you and I probably talked about it too, is that under pressure, you don't think twice, right?

36:57Jawad MirSo you just, you know there's a time crunch, okay, think, boom, first idea, let's go. Right? When you have, time, whether it's in post-production or production or whatever state, you tend to sort of, okay, we have time, you know? So you second-guess yourself. So I… this is another example…

37:14Byron SmithOh

37:14Jawad Mir... Of your gut and your instincts.

37:16Byron SmithRight. Music, and so all these cues were a big part. I mean, like, I, it was a triple-headed... I've, I've totally, ign… I have, I've neglected that the composer, Matteo, was also just, I mean, a very thin line. But everything I was getting from him, Matteo was just like, I was like, "Go, Matteo, go." I was just like, "Who is this composer? Why have I not worked with him before?" You know? And then simply when we started, they started mixing the show, they were doing it right there in Adelaide, Australia. And Duncan, sound mixer, I mean, like, I was seeing things that I just have not... I mean, like, another level. You know, another editor on the show was at a premiere in London. You know?

38:06Byron SmithThey were… She was in a theater. You know, she actually, she sent me a text while it was happening. She said, "Byron, the show looks and sounds amazing, and it, and it looks like it's made for the theater."

38:17Jawad MirWow.

38:18Byron SmithSo it was, the whole presentation, you know, just really had a, had a great bow on it.

38:25Jawad MirThat's awesome.

38:26Byron SmithYeah.

38:26Jawad MirThat's really good, man. That's the biggest compliment you can get… ... That it's almost the… theatrical experience as if it's mixed and composed and edited for theater. That's really good. Just to, you know, sort of wrap things up…

38:41Byron SmithYeah

38:41Jawad Mir... What was… I mean, we've touched upon a lot of different things, and maybe there will be some repetition. But what was the most… ... Challenging and difficult scene to edit or sequence to edit, and why?

39:01Byron SmithThis, actually, th… we've been focusing on the first two episodes. The pilot was a challenge. It was the most difficult one.

39:10Jawad MirI bet.

39:10Byron SmithThere is a, when you work in television, there's this really funny running joke that the pilot is always the last one to lock. And in this case, I think the pilot was probably the last one, you know, the last one to really lock. It was the thing with this, the whole idea that Jackie Price is an art dealer, that is an art dealer in the free port…

39:45Jawad MirSure

39:45Byron Smith... Where you're, you're auctioning off art to the wealth, the greatest wealth in the world. This idea of the free port was something th… and the way that the auction, first, the first auction that we kind of witness was the, was the hardest part i… you know, that we did so many versions of it. The, actually, the music that we ended up with, was a, was a big component of that. That was also, though, the things that you see, we ended up reshooting it. We ended up reshooting some of the pieces. You know, actually, you know, we had, line producer help, you know, shoot some of, some reshoots, you know. And, his name's Luis, you know, and he actually brought us the most amazing locations that are forthcoming in the ep… in the other episodes. I mean, this vineyard that the show ends up at is the most magical place on the planet.

40:53Byron SmithAnd the, but, and d… so he was a really powerful producer. He was really strong at what, he knew what to, how to do things. And he helped us shoot some of those things. It was that, it was that opening sequence. There were some things that we had, we had a, we had a big low. You know, I was working in Soho in London…

41:13Byron Smith... And we had an episode that I had not touched yet. It was episode four. And there was a... And it was almost like everybody was a little bit blue about it. It was funny because our co-producer, Carol, she told me, she said, "I used to, my stomach would turn when I would have to sit down and watch episode four." And then she said, "Your episode, your cut of it is now my favorite episode."

41:40Jawad MirOh, man. That's awesome.

41:40Byron SmithSo we really... Yeah, I hope you, I hope you last and, you know, take in episode four, because we really turned that one around in a big way.

41:51Jawad MirI'm looking forward to that. I'm looking forward to that. When we do, hopefully, another episode with the folks that we chatted about…

41:57Byron SmithYeah

41:57Jawad Mir... Well, maybe we can discuss it at that time. That's really good, man. No, I'm loving it, man. I, look, I... It's really hard to watch all these things because of time, right?

42:09Byron SmithYeah. Hopefully. Yeah.

42:10Jawad MirBut you gotta. And

42:13Byron SmithYeah

42:13Jawad Mir... I'm so glad now good shows are coming out, or maybe I'm starting… ... To watch them. I don't know which one it is. But, you know, Lucky was really good. This is turning out to be really good. There's qui… other f… I just started watching Brothers. I don't know if you've seen it on Apple with McConaughey…

42:30Byron SmithNo

42:30Jawad Mir... And Harrison. Oh, man, you gotta watch Brothers.

42:32Byron SmithOh, yeah. Oh, I wanna see it. Okay.

42:34Jawad MirYeah. Like, it's all, it's based on their true conspiracy, right?

42:39Byron SmithYeah.

42:39Jawad MirAnd

42:40Byron SmithYeah

42:40Jawad Mir... But yeah, it's good to see these good shows coming out. It's, it's awesome, man. It's awesome. Well, I'm glad, man.

42:46Byron SmithYeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's nice. It's really special. You're always so thoughtful. Thanks for taking the time to watch it. And so I'm glad, so glad we got to visit

42:57Jawad MirNo, I enjoy watching it. I learn so much from it. I learn from you, from others when I talk. I mean, the amount of knowledge I've gained in the last three and a half years is…

43:05Byron SmithYeah

43:05Jawad Mir... Immense on how things, you know, work. You think you know everything…

43:11Byron SmithYeah

43:11Jawad Mir... But you don't. You know?

43:13Byron SmithRight.

43:13Jawad MirYou're always learning, you're always learning.

43:15Byron SmithI really appreciate... I'm learning, I'm loving these guests that you're talking with, you know?

43:22Jawad MirOh, good.

43:22Byron SmithRecently, like the…

43:25Jawad MirDodie?

43:25Byron SmithYou know... Yeah, Dodie. I mean, the screenwriters like Gale from Back to the Future. What a legend.

43:32Jawad MirThat's my biggest get, I think.

43:35Byron SmithThat's amazing.

43:36Jawad MirYeah.

43:37Byron SmithYeah. And these guys, they wanna... And, like, they're... It's, it's enriching. It's this golden era. It's like, I remember when Andre the Giant passed away, I was with Robin Wright in the cutting room…

43:50Byron Smith... And she told me a story from Princess Bride. She said when I was cold, his hands were so large, he would set his hand on her…

44:00Jawad MirOh, wow

44:00Byron Smith... And warm her entire body from that. We were talking about Rob Reiner, and we were talking about when we lose these people, we will never have it again. So it's, some of your guests, I've really been noticing, by these really special guests that you've been getting, you know, it… they're telling stories that, are worth, that w… are worth to keep living and live on, you know…

44:28Jawad MirAnd that…

44:28Byron Smith... Thanks to your efforts.

44:30Jawad MirNo, man. I mean, this, their story. That's the thing. Like, even forget the podcast for a second, but just in general, the work that these people…

44:36Byron SmithYeah

44:36Jawad Mir... Have done. Like, you talk about Rob Reiner… ... You talk about Bob Gill. You know, everybody has to go, right? But that work will always stay there, and that's why, like, you know, look at Robin Williams. He's gone for like, what, 12, 13 years.

44:51Jawad MirBut you pick up a movie of his and start watching, you'll feel like the guy is still around, you know? And that's the power of storytelling and movies and… ... 'cause it never makes you forget who people were.

45:04Byron SmithRight, yeah.

45:05Jawad MirAnd that's what's, what I love about what we do.

45:07Byron SmithI... Yeah, exactly. I mean, the, you know, maybe the technology wasn't there to really capture, like, a Kurosawa set and how every bit of…

45:15Jawad MirYeah

45:15Byron Smith... His sets were authentic, and the actors would behave, would perform, you know, more authentically by being on an authentic set. And it's just on 35 millimeter that maybe really couldn't capture all the detail, but, that kind of y… y… y… those, th… that those movies hold up. You know, every bit of the... And I'm really drawn into that kind of staging, that kind of storytelling, and that will always live on.

45:42Jawad MirYeah.

45:42Byron SmithIt doesn't get old. It's just, it's special. They're all treasures.

45:46Jawad Mir100%, man. Well, that's awesome, man. Looking forward to chatting again. Hopefully we can do another episode…

45:50Byron SmithYeah

45:50Jawad Mir... On this show, and

45:52Byron SmithI'd love to

45:52Jawad Mir... Then there's Safe House…

45:54Byron SmithYeah

45:54Jawad Mir... Coming in spring, so looking forward to that too, man.

45:57Byron SmithRight. Yes. We're, we're really excited about that. Thanks for having me.

46:01Jawad MirAmazing. No, man.

46:02Byron SmithYeah.

46:02Jawad MirMy pleasure. Thank you.