Composer, David Robbins, Life & Films

0:00Jawad MirIf your mom and dad were right with you right now, what would you tell them?

0:04David RobbinsHow you doing up there? The way that they left us was kind of a love story in its own.

0:15Jawad MirAny kind of emotions and feelings when you were in your 40s or 30s or even early 50s when you felt that why is it not breaking for me?

0:23David RobbinsI was not content. I wanted to... I thought I wanted that, you know, that breakthrough thing, you know? And I got close to being in that position a couple of times. You know, once was with s… a movie called Any Given Sunday. The other one was Gladiator. And i… there was another one called, We Were Soldiers. The composer that the director wanted to use got ill. I was slotted to be, to do this, and then 9/11 happened, and there was this whole kinda like break from their production. And at the end, other end of it, the guy got better, so

1:04Jawad MirWhat would you tell your wife, Mary, if she was here right now?

1:08David RobbinsLook how proud you can be of what your daughter's become. That's what I would say. Very simply, I mean…

1:16Jawad MirThat's…

1:16David Robbins... Check, you know, look at what we, look at what we created, you know, and look how she's thriving. Can't ask for more than that. Just won another award.

1:33Jawad MirWell, congratulations. Do tell.

1:35David RobbinsThis short film that I did, like scored it maybe almost two years ago now, and last year it started doing the festival circuit. It's called The Drive, and, it, actually won a couple of awards on the festival circuit last year.

1:58David RobbinsAnd I just found out that I just won an award from the Catalina Film Festival.

2:04Jawad MirWell, good for you, man. Congratulations.

2:07David RobbinsYeah, it's pretty cool. It doesn't happen too much, so

2:11Jawad MirWell, especially even after three years of the film being done and you being done with it's kind of interesting…

2:15David RobbinsYeah

2:15Jawad Mir... Timing.

2:16David RobbinsI, and it's a short film, so it's like, you know…

2:17Jawad MirYeah.

2:18David Robbins... The attention span, very s… small. But what was really good also is that it's done well enough across the board as far as notice and, awards and stuff, and, showings that it's become eligible for consideration for the Academy.

2:36Jawad MirExcellent, man. That's awesome. That's really…

2:38David RobbinsYeah

2:38Jawad Mir... Really good. You must be pumped.

2:40David RobbinsAnyway. So.

2:44Jawad MirNo, that's really good. I'm really, happy for you, man. That's awesome.

2:50David RobbinsThanks.

2:52Jawad MirSo we've done like, I don't know, four or five podcasts before, mainly focused on, you know, films that you've done. And I just thought it'd be cool to try something different and, you know, maybe talk a little bit about the films here and there, but not…

3:10Jawad Mir... Too much in detail, but more so about who is David. Right? And, who is David Robbins? Let's start with that.

3:23David RobbinsThat's a good question.

3:24Jawad MirHow would you, how would you describe it?

3:28David RobbinsJust a guy who's been around a while, stumbling and bumbling his way through life and, you know, getting lucky.

3:39Jawad MirThat's, that's the humble way of saying it, but let's really…... Find out, who is David Robbins?

3:45David RobbinsWell, I'm a son of a folk singer, Gil Robbins, and, Mary Robbins, who was also a singer. And, grew up in Greenwich Village. Born out here in LA, but grew up in, New York. And, being around music all the time, you know, was like, we didn't... We... TV was discouraged. We didn't, we didn't even have a TV for a while. But we did have, as Tim had said, you know, we had a kickass stereo system. And so we played a lot of music. And, you know, and I learned a lot of music. And, you know, early on it was about emulating my father, you know, and learning guitar, acoustic guitar and things like that. And then I got, I got invaded by rock and roll. And, you know, I remember, a couple of songs that really, a couple of instances which really defined it s… this is what I gotta do.

5:12David RobbinsAnd, it was, Mitch Ryder & the Detroit Wheels, Devil with the Blue Dress On. Said, "I gotta learn how to play that." And, the other, which happened when I was, we were up in Saratoga on summer '69. I think it was '69. Yeah, '69. And, our dad at the time was doing summer stock theater.

5:44David RobbinsAnd so I was up there and, staying with, a, family that had a son my age, and we got, you know, we hung out and, heard the first Led Zeppelin album. And it was, it shook me. It shook my world. You know, it's like, "Holy crap, this is, you know, this is amazing." And so that's, that's where I, you know, all of a sudden folk was kind of like in the background. Everything else, you know, I don't... You know, I was about rock and roll, and, kind of that, got me, on a path and, became obsessed with it and learned how to play guitar and got really good at it. And, did all the things that you would think one would do and, you know, ma… create bands, join bands, write songs.

6:44David RobbinsAnd a couple bands were really good and, but they, it, like most, fate of most bands is that you get this close to where you have a, an open door where you can make an album and get it released, and it would fall short for one reason or another. Either somebody in the band or a manager or something would happen to blow it all up. And so I ended up getting a little disillusioned by that, and I had been in New York for three years with the last serious band that I was in, and m… moved back with my wife to California, and I was looking for something to do, and Tim says, "Why don't you come down and check out what we're doing at The Actor's Gang?" 'Cause this was new. I mean, they had started it in '81. This was, when I got back here it was '84.

7:42David RobbinsAnd, so they, I, kind of checked it out, and I loved it. It was... And because there was live y… live musicians, three or four of them. The first play I saw was, what was it called? I'm trying to remember. Well, it…

8:11Jawad MirStream of Consciousness

8:12David Robbins... Oh, it was called M… it was called Methuselah, right? It was, this play called Methuselah, and on drums was John Densmore playing, improvising drums, and behind him were a couple of other musicians, you know, playing other instruments, a guitar and a saxophone and what have you, marimba, things like that. And it w… really, excited me. It's just like, "This is something that would be cool to do," you know? And, so I was all in, and I, started working with, a couple of the other musicians. It was kind of a one-off for John, but, so I started working with them and we did a couple of plays, and then I realized that I was getting really good at, you know, kind of like starting to figure out how to put music to drama and comedy and commedia specifically, commedia dell'arte.

9:21David RobbinsAnd, really, kind of self-taught myself, you know, about, how to do it, and people were liking what I was doing. And that led to, just backdoor, you know, 'cause I wasn't looking for it, but ... I had an opportunity all of a sudden to do a film, and it was a Robert Downey Sr. Film. He was directing it, Putney Swope guy. And, had a chance. You know, he hired me. I had never done a film before. I had done a short film, m… and I had some recordings of stuff, you know, from The Actor's Gang that I played, but he liked it, and he, you know, he was easygoing and w… willing to do it. And I ended up writing a jazz score, like a quartet jazz score…

10:21David Robbins... With occ… occasional underscore stuff of different types. But it was,... And, it was a great experience, and it, the film was terrible. But I didn't care. I mean, it was just like…

10:40Jawad MirOf course

10:41David Robbins... You know, you know, one thing led to another and, you know, people started responding, and then Tim had a chance to make a movie, and we made Bob Roberts. And we co-wrote those songs, and, I was in it from before it got green-lit and, through production, post-production, and so on. And, that was kind of, an amazing experience, and, it went on from there.

11:17David RobbinsI did, I did three, two films before we did Bob Roberts. It was, three film. No, two films. It was the first one called Too Much Sun, and then another one with, Bud Cort, called Ted and Venus, and then Bob Roberts opportunity came up, and then that.

11:38Jawad MirThat's awesome.

11:38David RobbinsAnd then I started working in f… in films, and, you know, 30, 35 years later, still doing one every now and then.

11:49Jawad MirThat's, that's awesome. You know, you've talked about Bob Roberts, but, we have talked about a whole episode on Dead Man Walking, right?

11:58David RobbinsRight.

11:58Jawad MirAnd your collaboration with Nusrat. I was actually... It's so funny. Literally this morning I remembered. I'm talking with David, and I was at a concert on Sunday with Rahat

12:09David RobbinsWow

12:11Jawad MirAnd this is the first time I've ever been, if my memory serves me right, to a concert. I'm not a concert person. Like, this…

12:18David RobbinsRight

12:18Jawad Mir... But we were able to get tickets, and we went, and had to be 50, 60,000 people, and it was insane experience. And his son is now… His son is now singing.

12:32David RobbinsYeah.

12:33Jawad MirAnd who sounds ex…

12:34David RobbinsI heard about that

12:35Jawad Mir... Who sounds very much like Nusrat.

12:38David RobbinsYeah.

12:39Jawad MirSo I just thought… ... I should mention that

12:40David Robbins... That,.. Yeah, he's,.. I never, I never met the son, never heard him either. Rahat kind of took the mantle of after Nusrat passed…

12:53Jawad MirYeah

12:53David Robbins... Who is, I think, a cousin, right? Or…

12:57Jawad MirNo. So Nusrat is... Nusrat's younger brother or older brother's son is Rahat.

13:05David RobbinsOh, okay. So that re…

13:07Jawad MirYeah

13:07David Robbins... Yeah, Rahat was with us, when, during Dead Men Walking. Yeah.

13:10Jawad MirYeah, Rahat was a r… kid during Dead Men Walking. Like, he would just kinda sit next to Nusrat and just do his little vocals and that's about it. Like, that's all he would do. But yeah, no, I just thought, I just thought to mention that because you were talking about Bob Roberts, I'm thinking of you did Dead Men Walking. But going back to your early years, right? And again, if this gets a little too personal, please just tell me and I'll step back. What was your relationship with your dad like? You know, it's a very... A father-son relationship is very complicated, no matter what generation you come from. Maybe a little bit more different last generation, the generation before that. What was your…

13:48David RobbinsYeah

13:48Jawad Mir... Relationship with your dad? Even your mom was like, if you…

13:52David RobbinsWell

13:53Jawad Mir... If you could

13:54David Robbins... At times it was, it was good, and then there was, you know, times it wasn't. It was,.. You gotta understand, this is like, you know, I was born in '55, right? And so we're, it's just like in, when we're in New York and I'm six years old and growing up there, it was this couple trying to make ends meet, you know, my dad and my mom, a… with four kids that were born over the course of, like, five and a half years. So it was, like, one after the other, after the other, and they were overwhelmed with that. You know, there's just no way to put it, but they did what they could, and Mom kinda held the fort down by having a steady job. And Da… and Dad had, you know, at, when we moved there, he had the work. You know, he was with, The Highwaymen, of course, and The Cumberland Three, and, he did a tour with, Harry Belafonte, The Harry Belafonte Singers, and that was all good. But he wasn't around a lot. And, when he was around, you know, he was a good teacher for, students in general, for s… people that went to him for, you know, to learn.

15:11David RobbinsBut with… ... Kid, with his kids it was like a change. It was a different thing. So it was like, "Do we have to, Dad?" And, you know, learning to play recorder and things like that, you know? And he's make all four of us sit around and play, learn, you know. There were some good... You know, it was, it was a good, you know, family thing, but some of us didn't, you know... He was like, "Eh." But, it, we had a good relationship overall. You know, i… there was, you know, a time when I kind of, as a teenager, I kinda lost my way for a while and, I didn't, really wanna have much to do with anything, family-wise. And, you know, I was just into this kind of, wrong way, we'll say, with friends from the neighborhood.

16:12David RobbinsAnd, fortunately, I had an epiphany at some point, that said, "If you stay with these people, you're gonna die and you're gonna die young." And I had this firm belief that there was something I had to do and I wanted to do. And so I, like that, I got, I went, stopped hanging out with them. I put myself through audio engineering school and, you know, did day jobs to pay for that and, learned that craft and…

16:49David Robbins... Started a road that led me to being a sound man and, engineer in studios and, on the road as a, as a front of house mixer, but mostly monitor mixing, and in the '70s, you know. And, I was on tour with... I did three tours before it kinda started burning me out, but I, my relationship, getting back to my dad, get… my relationship kind of got better as I matured. And

17:27David Robbins... And to the point where, you know, I mean, we were, you know, it was a good relationship. And, I included him when I was, you know, many years later when I was starting, when I was doing scores and had a call, a cause to do q… choral work, that was, you know, I called him, you know, I had him, asked him to come and arrange and conduct, these choral things and, for certain, films, one of them being Savior, for instance.

18:04Jawad MirYep. Great film.

18:04David RobbinsYep.

18:05Jawad MirGreat score.

18:05David RobbinsHe also did, the choral... There's a couple of choral arrangements that are in the songs of Bob Roberts, that he did. And, so that was a really good adult relationship. Our adult relationship was much better than as a, as a child. Not that... It wasn't awful, but it was just like, you know, I w…

18:29Jawad MirYeah

18:29David Robbins... I would rather be doing something else. And, but I mean, I was, I was kinda like the older brother, with one older sister and but I was like, you know, I could be a terror, so, you know.

18:45Jawad MirY…

18:45David RobbinsAnd, you know, Tim was, you know, he would, you know, I would, I would tease him. I would... You know, we played, you know, a lot, did a lot together, you know, arts and crafts and stuff like that and just play and sports and things like that when, he was younger and I was, you know, pre-teen. But I would, you know, tease him mercil… mercilessly sometimes. And, you know, he promised that, "When I grow up and I'm bigger than you, I'm gonna kick the shit out of you."

19:21Jawad MirWell, he is much bigger than you now.

19:23David RobbinsYeah, I know. And, you know, fast-forward to when, I was out here and I had already met my, then girlfriend and eventually wife, Terry. She,.. He was moving from, his first two years in college back East to go to UCLA, and he asked if we could put him up, and I says, "Sure." So meet him at the airport, pick him up, and here's this 6'5" guy walking toward me. I said, I said to myself, "I hope he doesn't remember."

19:58Jawad MirBut you know what the funny thing is? So when I was at the play and Tim was there, and, you know, meeting him in person, he's super tall.

20:09David RobbinsYeah.

20:09Jawad MirYes, that intimidation kinda kicks in automatically, but he's a lovely guy to chat to and very easy person to talk to.

20:17David RobbinsYeah.

20:17Jawad MirRight? And that's what I really admired about him. But yeah, I mean, he even, you know, at this age he's, like, a giant, right? Which is awesome.

20:27David RobbinsYeah. He's, yeah. He... And I'm, I'm getting slowly shorter. I think I, last doctor's visit I was, I'm, I'm not 6'2" anymore. I'm 6'1" and three quarters or something like that. But…

20:43Jawad MirDude, you're at least in the six range. There are people who are going below 5'5". Not me, but I know qui… but I know quite a few people who have really shrunk really quickly. For some it comes really quick. For some it comes over time for whatever reason, right?

20:57David RobbinsYeah. Well, you start losing mass, you know?

21:00Jawad MirYeah, exactly. Exactly. That's why you gotta keep fit.

21:03David RobbinsYeah.

21:03Jawad MirThat's why you gotta keep building up. You talked about your dad, and we'll put you guys, you know, four of you together and music and all that. Kinda reminded me of that scene which probably happened in real life. I don't know if you've seen the movie Michael.

21:20David RobbinsAh. I don't recall.

21:22Jawad MirThe one that just came... So the la… it came out last year. So it's basically on Michael Jackson's early years leading up to…

21:29David RobbinsOh, no, I haven't, I haven't seen that, no. Yeah

21:31Jawad Mir... Release of Thriller. So there was a scene, I mean, that was a little bit more intense scene so I'm pretty sure yours wasn't like that, but it kinda reminded me of that, where the dad is, like, really trying to teach all of them how to sing, and there's one that's rebelling who's Michael. Were you the rebelling type or w… who was the rebelling…

21:48David RobbinsI was the rebel

21:49Jawad Mir... Among the siblings?

21:50David RobbinsYeah.

21:50Jawad MirYeah.

21:50David RobbinsI was defin… I was definitely the rebel.

21:53Jawad MirHow so?

21:53David RobbinsI was the... Well, I just, you know, was, I, you know, I was, you know, I was a troublemaker sometimes and just contrarian. I didn't wanna do certain things and, I made it known, you know? I was just a full of, full of, I don't know what it w… what the word is. A spark, but it was kind of a, it was wildness, you know? And, so I was de…

22:32Jawad MirWas there a story that you could share?

22:35David RobbinsOh, God, I don't know. Well, I think the best... The rebel part of me was what almost killed me and what also saved me and what, became, my life and my career, because of that rebel. So I think that's the easiest way to say it, in that it was a…

23:01David Robbins... Destructive force when I, when I was young and there was no, you know, there was no controlling it, or not, you know, channeling it. And then, and then how that got me to a precipice that, I didn't like and moved something else and I... But I was still a rebel, but it was, it was kind of, like, on my own terms in a positive direction. You know, as, doing something different, something, you know, not guaranteed, you know, not getting, you know, getting into a career of stable, like, "You should, you should do something, sensible for your life," you know, type of thing.

23:46Jawad MirYeah.

23:47David RobbinsYou should, you know, become a, an accountant or something. The closest I ever got to that was just learning how to be an audio engineer, but that was still, like, the... It was, you know, it was the, it was not a, it was not a steady, s… as steady a thing as you would like in most cases, you know? It's, it's,.. And, you know, music was always my, you know, my guiding force. And, And that, it has its rebelliousness all into its own. But, you know. Anyway.

24:30Jawad MirNo, that's, that's great. I really kinda got stuck and I think it's a really deep quote that you just said, that, "The rebel in me almost destroyed me, the rebel in me, you know, pretty much saved me."

24:42David RobbinsYeah.

24:43Jawad MirSo you know, normally it... That I don't hear that much. Like, you know, normally you would make a mistake, but you used your mistake to fix yourself, if you wanna go there. But I also think had you not gone in that direction, you won't be doing what you're doing right now because that took you out…

25:01David RobbinsI wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't…

25:03Jawad MirNo, even if you were, even if you were.

25:06David RobbinsYeah. Yeah. No, it's, it…

25:07Jawad MirSo do you think the music... Sorry, go on, please.

25:11David RobbinsNo, I... Go ahead.

25:13Jawad MirNo, I'm just saying, do you think... So I don't wanna get into that unless you want, to that dark part. Do you think that the rebel that came out around that time to fix yourself, how much had to do with the music?

25:27David RobbinsHad everything to do with the music pretty much. I mean, music and, the creativeness of being a, an audio engineer and, you know, the... Everything from the getting the dexterity and the knowledge and the ability to edit tape, you know, which is how we did it then.

25:50David RobbinsAnd how that can be an art form, to, learning that I have a good ear that also applies to music. But, in audio terms, knowing, the technical basics of it, but having the ear to be able to, use that technology with the ear being the arbiter and

26:20David Robbins... Knowing how to get there. And, that is an art into itself, and that's creativity. And you know, so the... It was like, in a, in a lot of ways that was, you know, a good part of, you know, of this balance, these two posi… things that I focused on that were positive and artistic and, that the positive rebelness, you know, the re… rebel, the wanting to do that and wanting to focus on that and that alone, that they go hand-in-hand with me.

27:06David RobbinsBut it was, it was definitely, you know, music was the primary, as far as making, you know, making something mine, you know? And, having as much of a mastery as I could get with guitar playing and then eventually learning other instruments and things like that. You know, so yeah.

27:38Jawad MirI love how you said, "Making something mine." I think that's very powerful. That is very powerful, man. That... And I think that's most of us strive to do, but the way you just articulated it, I've never heard it like that. That's awesome.

27:52David RobbinsYeah. Yeah. I, it was, it was,.. I had to own it, you know? I had to own what I did, you know? And if I'm gonna be on the edge of a cliff, you know, I'm, I'm gonna make sure that I'm, I'm going to, you know, not fall off. I'm going to soar, you know? I'm gonna do what I can and let the fate be what it is, you know? Let the outcome be what it is and never look back, you know?

28:35Jawad MirYeah. You know, you talked about fate be or outcome be whatever it is, and we touched upon this before, you know. I think your work is remarkable. Like, you know, we've talked about your work in Savior, in Dead Man Walking, and, was it Project Kashmir, I think, the doc that you did?

28:57David RobbinsRight. Yeah. Project Kashmir, yeah.

29:00Jawad MirYeah. Kashmir. But you also said that, you know, I'm not trying to draw a comparison, but let's, let's say, you know, likes of Hans Zimmer or Jerry Goldsmith or John Williams or Alan Silvestri, you weren't able to sort of penetrate that kind of, quote-unquote, "fame" if you wanna call it.

29:22David RobbinsRight.

29:22Jawad MirBut that's not because your work is not great, it's, it's fabulous. Throughout your career, I would say probably less now because, you know, you've come to terms with life and you accept things and you know something better in store for you. Any kind of emotions and feelings when you were in your 40s or 30s or even early 50s when you felt that, "Why is it not breaking for me?" Or were you content at all times that what I'm doing is awesome regardless of the, you know…

29:54David RobbinsNo

29:54Jawad Mir... Fame, if you wanna call it?

29:54David RobbinsI was, I was not content. I wanted to... I thought I wanted that, you know, that breakthrough thing, you know? And I got close to being in that position a couple of times, you know. Once was with a s… a movie that, I was considered, called Any Given Sunday that

30:18Jawad MirOliver Stone

30:20David Robbins... Oliver Stone. I met with Oliver Stone and, you know, and, I was up for that. And the other one was Gladiator. Which it was between me…

30:29Jawad MirWe

30:30David Robbins... Yeah, me and the, composer who got it. And there was a third one too that happened around, 9/11. Shortly before, I was being considered for, to do this, the score for Gattaca, right?

30:52Jawad MirOkay. Yeah.

30:52David RobbinsAnd I had, I had, and I had done a coup… I did three songs that basically remakes and li… and re-recordings of a couple of Django Reinhardt songs that I had, a trio, a trio come in and record and then ended up having them be on camera in the background, you know, for this futuristic, nightclub thing. And, but that, they ended up going with somebody else, the, and for whatever reason. You know, it was frustrating. And then the, there was another one called, We Were Soldiers: Once And Young. And

31:38Jawad MirBy Mel Gibson. Mel Gibson.

31:40David RobbinsYeah. And I was up for that, and it was, the composer that the director wanted to use, was ill, got ill. So I was slotted to be, to do this, and then 9/11 happened, and there was this whole kinda like break from their production, and everything kind of reorganized. And at the, at the end, other end of it, the guy got better, so he ended up doing the score.

32:12Jawad MirI love how, I love how you said it. He got better.

32:18David RobbinsBut at some point, again, this rebel thing comes into play because, you know, I'm not class… I'm not formally trained in music. I never was.

32:32Jawad MirYeah.

32:32David RobbinsAnd I rejected, I rejected the, urging of my parents and s… some other people to learn the formula, learn formula. You know, learn the, quote, unquote, "composing or songwriting way." And I never focused on that, and I, and I realized at some point that, you know, had I done those pictures, you know, it might turn, have turned into something not as positive as you always think those things are gonna happen, and it's gonna... You know, all your problems are solved. So I came to accept this area that I was in, this kind of s… independent movie, able to have more freedom composing what c… comes out of me naturally, and reacting, and having, you know, the directors, you know, like what they hear.

33:44David RobbinsAnd also retaining some artistic control of that. And that I got, you know, that I got really good at it and I... It was the best when I just decided, when I kind of accepted the fact that, you know, hey, if something big comes along, sure, but it's gonna be, if it does happen, it's gonna be more on my terms, and I have to be ready to walk away if it's not that.

34:17Jawad MirRight.

34:18David RobbinsAnd I'd never got tested with that. It was always, there was a, the decision was made f… for me. But the things that I have been able to do, I am very proud of, and I, you know, I have something I can look back on. And so the frustration is gone. It's long gone, you know? It's like I like what I do, and what I did, and what I continue to do, and I, and people respect, the people that I work with respect what I have done and what I can do. And that's, that's got its own value and its own satisfaction. And I never s… stopped trying to get better and never stopped trying, but I'm okay with where it is and with what I, what I do, you know?

35:19David RobbinsI… I'm, I'm happy. I've done 45 films over the course of these years, which is, I guess... You know, some composers do hundreds, but I don't see how my…

35:30Jawad MirYeah, I mean, it's quality versus quantity, right? So.

35:34David RobbinsY… well, yeah. And, you know, I don't know how I... You know, if I got super popular, I don't know how, you know, how that would've gone, you know? Do I have to hire out more? Do I have to, you know, have a team? It's something I never got tested with…

35:53Jawad MirYeah

35:53David Robbins... But I'm, you know, I'm sure I would've done just fine with that, but, I'm okay not having done that as well, because I enjoy what I have been able to do, and I enjoy the reactions I get from people when they hear what I've done. So I, you know, I'm all good. S…

36:17Jawad MirI mean, I will say this. I was, when I was at the concert this weekend, and I was with a bunch of people, and I asked them, "Hey, have you seen Dead Men Walking?" And they're like, "No, never heard of it." And then I gave them the whole context. I spoke about you, I spoke about Tim, I spoke about Nostrad, and then they're like, "Well, I really wanna see it." So… One, the reason I'm mentioning this is to me, right, I'm just talking about myself here, Dead Man Walking as a film in terms of performance, direction, screenwriting, music, editing, cinematography, is one of the most amazing films in my life.

36:54Jawad MirNot because in any way I relate to it, but because it was... So I always found myself to be ahead of time in terms of my maturity when it came to understanding cinema, and that came out when... When did it came out, '97, '98? Something like that, right?

37:09David Robbins'96. '96.

37:11Jawad MirYeah, so I was 19. I was 19 at the time, and I understood the empathy part in that film, which even nowadays a lot of people wouldn't. And I think that film was way ahead of its time, and it's… ... Still timeless. And you, your music and Nusrat's music in there is top-notch…

37:33David RobbinsThank you

37:33Jawad Mir... And it will always be remembered.

37:35David RobbinsWell, o… one of the best decisions that we made early on was getting away from the secular or the localized music, you know, of where it was, where it was based in, which was Louisiana… ... To, this universal s… spiritual side of it, you know, th… this universality. And that was probably the best collective decision that was made about the direction that the music should go because especially after seeing, you know, like, rough cuts and stuff and how these... Some of those scenes are really intense, and we didn't invade the scenes with music. They let, we let, Tim let them play as real. I mean, you know, just you're in a room with this going on, and that's where the beauty of the music comes in that made it special, I think, is because it was like... I always likened it to, opening a window in a stuffy room to let the fresh air in, you know, af… you know, to transition…

38:52Jawad MirInteresting

38:53David Robbins... You out of that and say to the audience, "I can breathe," you know? A… and I can stay with this story now, you know, because that allowed them that space to do it

39:08Jawad MirYeah

39:08David Robbins... As a, you know, as an audience member, you know? And that's because of that, the, universality of the music and the spiritualness of it. And, I'm just glad to be a, you know, have been a part of that.

39:28Jawad MirYeah, I mean, the movie was nominated for so many Oscars, actor, actress, writing, screenplay, music as well, I think it was nominated for if I'm not mistaken, right?

39:36David RobbinsNot score, but, on the

39:41Jawad MirThe song, the Bruce Springsteen song

39:43David Robbins... Song, Bruce Springsteen song. Yeah, that was…

39:45Jawad MirYeah

39:46David Robbins... That one.

39:48Jawad MirYeah

39:48David Robbins... And the m… you know, that kind of side album, that inspired by album was... You know, I still have the review of that, the Rolling Stone review of that fr… framed on my wall because it's just an s… unbelievable, take and, you know, accurate, but really astounding, article, and back in, you know, when Rolling Stone did long form reviews…

40:18Jawad MirYeah

40:19David Robbins... And stuff, you know. And, it was really good. It was, you know, it was some… that was a big part of, you know, the whole aura of that film too, was all these really great songwriters, contributing, to because they were inspired by seeing a cut of the film. And we had to…

40:49Jawad MirYeah

40:49David Robbins... Turn some people away. We thought maybe we'd get a couple, three, four people and could add it to make a something out of it, but it was amazing. I mean, you know, when you get, Tom Waits writing two songs for it, I mean, you know you're in rare company.

41:10Jawad MirThat's true. That's true.

41:12David RobbinsYeah.

41:12Jawad MirThat's awesome. You know, you talked about, you named some films. I mean, Any Given Sunday was popular. We Were Soldiers… ... Was pretty good. But the one name that you mentioned, Gladiator, which to this day the soundtrack still lives on, right?

41:29David RobbinsYeah.

41:30Jawad MirWhether it was, whether it was that film or any other films or combination of all films, once they came out, and y… when you, whenever you saw them and you heard the music, do you remember any of the feelings or emotions at any of those films that you may have had that, "Oh, I could have done better," or, "This was better than I could have done"?

41:52David RobbinsNot really, you know, because I, you know, when I, when I l… even though I kind of parse scores after... You know, when you, when you're doing scores, you know, you ta… you listen with a different, you know, a different way to other scores in a m… movie. The best ones are ones that I forget that I'm, you know, I'm not parsing. I'm, I'm not judging or rating a score, right?

42:20Jawad MirRight.

42:20David RobbinsI'm just, I'm just being a film goer. And, the... And, you know, when Gladiator come out it's, it was, I saw it, and it was, it was great, and, I would have done it a little differently, but I don't know how because I'm, I wasn't in that moment. You know? It's…

42:43Jawad MirRight

42:43David Robbins... It's, it's kind of all in the ether, and, it's,.. But there was only one thing, the one thing I told you about with the We Were Soldiers.

42:59Jawad MirYeah.

42:59David RobbinsIs that... Oh, wait. Yeah, it was th… it was that one, that I had done e… because I was initially, you know, starting to do it, I had written some stuff, you know, for temp, you know, for

43:14Jawad MirYeah

43:14David Robbins... Temping the edit, and, a few things. And, when the whole pause happened and then the guy, you know, coming back, when the movie came out, I get a call from, Gagan Antonievich, who's the director of Savior.

43:41David RobbinsAnd he said,.. And because I had used some s… s… some stuff from that I temped and then some stuff that I had kind of sketched together that was in the same vein, and he calls me up and he says, "Somebody did your score," 'cause he saw the movie. And I went, I me… And then I spent good money and went to see the thing, and he... Ba… I shouldn't say this, but I mean, he, it was close to being, you know, what are you gonna do when you're over-emulated? Right? It's, it's like it was too close to say, different. You know? It was like, it was uncomfortable.

44:37David RobbinsAnd, it happens in the industry. It happens a lot in the industry. And some, you know, a lot of... To many people's credit, sometimes you're not even aware if you're, you know, mimicking something…

44:50Jawad MirOh, yeah

44:51David Robbins... Or too close, you know, because you're so into... And, you know, these seeds and these threads that burrow into your brain, you know, that kind of comes back out at some point and you hope y… that you're not unconsciously, stealing somebody, you know, somebody's ideas. But, it is possible. I mean, it happened to George Harrison, for instance.

45:24Jawad MirYeah

45:25David Robbins... And it does happen, and, but I, you know, I had my, like, moment of, "Oh," you know, "this sucks," and then I…

45:40Jawad MirMoved on

45:41David Robbins... Just n… why bother to try to be, you know, be a person that would go and say, "I'm suing you," or "I'm, I'm gonna contest this." it's just not, it's not in my DNA, so I just let it go.

45:58Jawad MirI get it. I admire that. I admire that. And you talked about subconscious, right? So I'll tell you s… two stories. One of them, the directors of Prince of Egypt were telling me that, when they were... I'm not sure if you've seen Prince of Egypt. It came out around the same time as D… Dead Man Walking. It's an animation film about Moses and Ramses. And, Hans Zimmer did a track, and it turned out s… they played it and they're like, "This is like from Xena: The Princess Warrior." So what turned out was he would pass his kids in the living room when they were watching it…

46:30David RobbinsYeah

46:30Jawad Mir... And this went into his head, and he literally replicated that. And then the same thing if you look at... I actually did this. You should look into this. I'll send you the track. You know, you know the composer Lorne Balfe?

46:44Jawad MirSo he works in a lot of the most recent Mission Impossible films, and there was this movie called The 13 Hour by Michael Bay… ... And, it was about the Benga… Benghazi attacks. And if you o… play the soundtrack, the very first track is literally almost identical to the theme of Prince of Egypt by Hans Zimmer.

47:05David RobbinsWow.

47:05Jawad MirAnd I like, even the... And I think he is, like, his student, or he was a student… ... So he kind of worked and... But the fact that they were so similar, it was, like, literally almost maybe a note here or there was a little different, but everything else was same.

47:23David RobbinsYeah.

47:23Jawad MirYeah. It happens.

47:25David RobbinsHappens.

47:25Jawad MirIt happens.

47:26David RobbinsAnd, I... You know, I always try to be, conscious of something that it's hard to be conscious of, because you're just going with

47:37Jawad MirWhatever comes

47:38David Robbins... Whatever, you know, whatever inspiration you come up. And, you know, there's, there are certain things that are, you know, beyond derivative that get a little too close, and, you know, I always w… you know, hope that I never, you know, do that without knowing it, and I think I've done pretty good so far.

48:04Jawad MirWell, I hope it stays that way.

48:05David RobbinsSo I bring out, I bring out my, I bring out the quirk.

48:06Jawad MirIf you were to look back at your life half, like, half, way into your life, like, let's say, you know, 30 years ago or even 50 years ago, what would you tell your young, you know, your sort of like a adult version and your younger version as a, as a piece of advice?

48:32David RobbinsTo whom?

48:34Jawad MirYourself. To yourself.

48:35David RobbinsTo myself?

48:35Jawad MirTo your younger version of you. To your younger version.

48:38David RobbinsThat's a tough one. I would say, to my younger self, to my older self, I would say something like, "Don't get, don't get caught in your own misery or in your own... Or hung up on the mistakes you made. Make the best of that, and keep that independence that you... By all means, keep the kid in you alive."

49:40David RobbinsBecause that's, that's the key, I think. It's having, you know... There's something that kind of, I learned early on, and it had to do with a book that was called The Artist's Way. And they alluded to that, this, kind of univer… this universe, y… of, that all things are, ti… in a way it's like you, the most important thing is to have that child in you alive and thriving.

50:25Jawad MirI agree.

50:25David RobbinsAnd to keep it that way, and you don't keep it that way by doing your job. In my case, being a composer and a musician and so on and so forth. It's you do something just for that kid, and it's, you know, if m… do a painting, a sketch, write something. But do that just for the sake of doing it, not for, you know, having a job, not for, you know, have, you know, contributing to a career or whatever, you know, doing it for work. Just do that for fun, and that will keep you, that will keep you young. And, I think that's, in a nutshell, that's kinda like the way I deal with things, the way I, see things. And, the, it's something to s… to keep striving for and r… keep reminding myself of.

51:28David RobbinsYeah, you know, 'cause w… the more you let the garbage go, the more at ease you feel and more, comfortable you feel in your skin. And ha… you know, easy to have, put a smile on your face, and not get caught up in all this crap, you know?

51:55Jawad MirYeah.

51:55David RobbinsAnd it's, it's, it's work in its own way, but that's it, you know. I mean, that's, for me, that's it.

52:04Jawad MirYeah, it's a great…

52:04David RobbinsAnd, it's served me well

52:06Jawad Mir... It's a great advice.

52:09David RobbinsYeah.

52:09Jawad MirI think, I think…

52:10David RobbinsI have one thing I wanna tell you in cl…

52:12Jawad MirSure.

52:14David RobbinsNo, th… and it has nothing to do with anything other than, in a legacy sense of, our family.

52:21Jawad MirThat's great

52:22David Robbins... Tim has recently... He, Tim has re… re… recently, started timrobbins.com, and on it is something called Robbins Radio. And it's a thing that we are con… we're doing something from anybody in the family. Like for instance, it's a monthly thing. For the f… first w… we first drop we did at the beginning of September when it first, opened, we had, we, an al… a High Women album, that our dad did, recorded, called The Cambridge Tapes.

53:05David RobbinsI put the score of Savior on there. Tim did a Rogues' Gallery concert that was recorded. And, the next month is gonna be, this starts tomorrow, or yeah, tomorrow. It's got, it, basically one thing from each family member that wants to contribute. And plus there's a lot of pictures that come, and it's all on, all this music is on a loop, so you're not picking something to listen to. It's, it's just playing and switching. And next month, starting tomorrow, we're going to have, this, the recordings, the Bob Roberts recordings from the movie, 10 of them looping in there. The, but the, in their entirety 'cause…

54:08Jawad MirThat's awesome

54:10David Robbins... Most of m… most the, most of them you don't... You only hear a little part of in the movie.

54:14Jawad MirSure.

54:14David RobbinsExcept for a couple that are, like, videos, right? So there's that. We're also, Tim and I had a band that we had together and we did some recording and we did some playing, you know, live, called Gob Roberts, which was kind of a send-up of the... A reinterpretation in a, in a hard rock style of the Bob Roberts stuff with lyrics that are changed to reflect the other side of the fictional Bob Roberts, right? And so we called it Gob Roberts. And so we have three songs that we had recorded in studio, that are, takes on three Bob Roberts songs. So those will be in the mix. And there's a, an album that our dad did with the Highwaymen that was recorded live in a village, club, called Hootenanny with the Highwaymen, right?

55:23David RobbinsAnd, so there's all this stuff that... And it's again on a loop, right? So, and every month the previous gets replaced with new stuff. So it's like every... You know, there's gonna be another Rogues' Gallery concert that Tim did. There's gonna be another score of mine. There's gonna be other family members that will be contributing things. And, pictures are always kind of, added to, and they loop as well with the music. So it's like these… sometimes you're, you're, like, looking at pictures as you're listening to something that... And all of a sudden the music and the pictures kind of makes, you know, something happen. It's really cool.

56:08Jawad MirThat's awesome. Is this a website?

56:10David RobbinsYeah, timrobbins.com.

56:12Jawad MirYeah. Perfect.

56:13David RobbinsYeah.

56:13Jawad MirI mean, I knew this, but I just wanted you to say it online, so people can hear it. That's awesome.

56:19David RobbinsYeah. I'm... It's exciting because it's, it's a, it's, it's a, you know, an honor to our father and our mother who was, you know, a professional singer too. You know, she was part of... Our dad has also got, you know, choral music that he's recorded that's gonna be out.

56:38Jawad MirWow.

56:38David RobbinsYou know, s… you know, the... 'Cause he was really into, after the folk days, you know, he got into choral music. I mean, he always was, but he's had a, his own choral society called the Occasional Singers in New York. And,... Our mom was in it. I think Adele was in it, and I n… I don't remember if our other sister Gabrielle was in it or not, but, they were all... Those… Everybody was a singer, right? And he, and he was into 20th century choral, which is, can be kind of challenging to listen to sometimes, but he loved it, you know, and he was good at it. He was really good at it. And

57:21David Robbins... He's an amazing, vocal choral arranger and, orchestra… you know, arranger and, composer as well.

57:37Jawad MirConductor. Composer.

57:38David RobbinsConductor. Conductor and composer, yeah, 'cause he wrote some original stuff too. I mean, he... Choral stuff, you know.

57:48Jawad MirAmazing. Is there a doc in the works?

57:52David RobbinsNot that I know of.

57:54Jawad MirYou should consider that.

57:56David RobbinsWell, maybe this is our living documentary.

58:00Jawad MirMaybe, yeah. Another way of doing it.

58:02David RobbinsYeah.

58:03Jawad MirBut I really think, I think there could be something there. Just putting it out there.

58:11David RobbinsYeah.

58:12Jawad MirLastly, man, this is a little bit of an emotional question, so I'm sorry if I put you in an awkward spot. If your mom and dad were right with you right now, what would you tell them?

58:27David RobbinsHow you doing up there?

58:37Jawad MirThat's awesome. I love it. I love it.

58:41David RobbinsSo I…

58:41Jawad MirI love it

58:41David Robbins... You know, I mean, it, the way that they left us was kind of a love story in its own.

58:52Jawad MirOkay.

58:54David RobbinsThe, our dad, you know, had prostate cancer and, he did a little bit of treat… treatment of it, but he ignored it, basically. He just, you know, he,.. And he got, it got into stage four and in 2011 he passed away, couple weeks after his 80th birthday. And our mom was still fairly healthy, but she was failing in some physical aspects. But, she passed away, I think it was, 17 days later.

59:40Jawad MirOh, wow.

59:42David RobbinsAnd, but we know that she wanted to be with him. She, you know, we didn't need her anymore. You know? It's like, "You kids are doing fine. I'm outta here. You know, I wanna be with him." And it was…

1:00:07Jawad MirYeah. Totally. I mean, that's, that says a lot about their relationship. I mean, I've, I heard that about a coup… couple other people in the past, like how, you know, days apart they pass away, and…

1:00:21David RobbinsThey were married for over 60 years.

1:00:23Jawad MirYeah.

1:00:25David RobbinsIt's amazing. And they really loved each other. And, it's poetic, you know, how that happened. And, it's special, I think. She knew what she wanted. It's, "I'm outta here. See you later."

1:00:57Jawad MirI can, just on a humorous note if I may, I can see this like of an ending of a movie. You know, "I'm out of here. See you later," and the credits roll. Oh, that's... So thanks for sharing that, man. I knew it was gonna be a little tough, but I really want to sort of touch that part because, you know, those things, when people w… who we love are around us, it's just damn human nature. We don't really... We can't take people for granted when they're we… when they're around, and when they go away, we always remember them. Not in a negative way, it's just the way things work, right? And, but at least they're together. I think that's the key.

1:01:39David RobbinsYeah. Well, yeah. I mean, I know the frailty of ex… humans in that, you know, I mean, I lost my wife, over 20 years ago from a r… a rare but deadly cancer that, just you don't know until it's too late, you know?

1:02:06Jawad MirWhat kind of cancer was it?

1:02:09David RobbinsIt was, bile duct cancer, cholangiocarcinoma. And

1:02:14Jawad MirYeah, I've never heard of that

1:02:15David Robbins... It's a very slow-growing, it's like, you know, the bile duct's attached to the liver. And our daughter, when she passed, it sh… our daughter was just graduating high school. That was tough. But our daughter is thriving now and, I have great memories. And, you know, we were married for 26 years, you know? And, it,.. But life is fragile, you know? So you be thankful what you have and take it as it comes as easy as you can. And…

1:03:06Jawad MirYeah

1:03:06David Robbins... Y… you know, it's like, hey, I have aspir… aspirations. I've decided I'm going to get myself, I'm gonna get myself in shape and I'm gonna be d… I'm gonna train for the Centenarian Decathlon. And, I mean, I say this half jokingly, but, I have this attitude as like, oh, I'm gonna, you know, take advantage of as long as I've got. And, I fancy myself... 'Cause there is long longevity in our family history. And, but what I say to my... I say is that, "See, I'm gonna train for it because I know that I can probably win it because I'm not gonna have much competition."

1:04:02Jawad MirFor sure. For... I hope, I hope so. That's awesome. That's one way of looking at it.

1:04:07David RobbinsAnyway, yeah, I, it's a, it's kind of a joke with…

1:04:11Jawad MirNo, it's funny

1:04:11David Robbins... Running with me, but, I do take care of myself, reasonably and

1:04:18Jawad MirYeah

1:04:19David Robbins... And

1:04:19Jawad MirYeah

1:04:20David Robbins... I'm, I'm, hopeful that those genes,.. So far so good. I mean, I'm…

1:04:27Jawad MirYeah

1:04:27David Robbins... Pretty healthy.

1:04:29Jawad MirThat's good.

1:04:29David RobbinsKnock on wood. Yeah.

1:04:31Jawad MirW… what was your wife's name, man?

1:04:34David RobbinsTeri. Therese.

1:04:37Jawad MirTheresa. Teri.

1:04:38David RobbinsTherese. But she called…

1:04:40Jawad MirTherese

1:04:40David Robbins... Herself Teri, and she alternated her spellings of the name over the years. First it was T-E-R-I, then she took, the French spelling, which is T-H-I-E-R-Y. And, that's what she stuck with. And... But everybody called her Teri.

1:05:05Jawad MirTeri. What was she like?

1:05:08David RobbinsShe was, she was really,.. I mean, you know, she was like a flower child. You know, she was a few years older or three years older than I was. And, we met at a recording studio that I worked at, and that she happened to be like the night manager there that would come and work part-time occasionally, and she was roommate with the day… daytime manager. And I met her at the studio, and I asked her out on a date and, we went on a date, and we were inseparable after. And, it was,.. We were married two years later and, she was, she was a life spirit. I mean, she was as willing to have, you know, fun as anybody, you know? And, yeah, everybody has faults, you know? I have faults, she had faults. But, you know, overall arc of it is that, she was my mate and, we had a child, a beautiful child together, who still thrives.

1:06:26David RobbinsAnd, she was an incredible cook. She made herself into a gourmet cook, and she would cook these incredible... I got so spoiled ha… you know, having like a…... A restaurant quality, like, multi-course meal every night. I mean, it wasn't, "Here's a hamburger." It wasn't that. It was like, boom. It's like, whoa. It was amazing. And, our daughter got r… early on got, introduced to quite a wide palate of food. And

1:07:09David Robbins... She was, she was not your mac and cheese g… girl growing up. So, but yeah. She, Terry was, one of a kind and, she had the quirkiest family I've ever seen, but yeah, she was, she was one of a kind, and she was meant to be, for me.

1:07:40Jawad MirI can see that. I can, I can see that in your, in your words, in your vocals, in your eyes, that you truly miss her and you truly loved her.

1:07:51David RobbinsYeah, I do.

1:07:52Jawad MirAwesome.

1:07:52David RobbinsBut I know she's in a, in a good place. And, she's

1:08:00Jawad MirGood

1:08:00David Robbins... Keep, she's keeping me honest.

1:08:05Jawad MirThat's good. That's good. Does she ever come in your dreams or any kind of messaging kind of?

1:08:11David RobbinsYeah. Every now and then she'll pop up. Yeah. And

1:08:17Jawad MirCare to share some, a dream? Like, what would she tell you, if she could?

1:08:21David RobbinsNo, not really. I mean, it's just like, say, "What are you doing here?" "Wait, this is my dream. What? Wait, I didn't know you were gonna be part of my dream. Okay. Hi, how are you?" I don't know. It's, it's, it's a f…

1:08:39Jawad MirI get it

1:08:39David Robbins... It's fleeting things, you know? It's nothing, profound or anything.

1:08:43Jawad MirOkay. Yeah.

1:08:43David RobbinsIt's just, it's just a, here's a, here's a little visit, you know? And, it's just those memory, those memories that are always gonna be in there that will always come into dreams, you know? And, it's a good thing.

1:09:04Jawad MirJust to wrap it up, again, on a little bit of a heavy note, what would you tell your wife, Terry, if she was here right now?

1:09:15David RobbinsLook how proud you can be of what your daughter's become. And, how's your mom and dad? And, yeah. She's,.. That's what I would say. Very simply. I mean, like check, you know, look at what we, look at what we created, you know? And look how she's thriving, you know? Can't ask for more than that.

1:09:58Jawad MirYeah. I'm sure she's listening right now.

1:10:03David RobbinsShe is.

1:10:03Jawad MirI'm sure she's listening. Yeah.

1:10:07David RobbinsYeah.

1:10:09Jawad MirWell, David, I've known you for about two years, I would say, you know, but I think this is probably the deepest we've gone. So it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's good to know the man behind the music, right? I mean, that's what I always strive for, but sometimes you don't wanna go there because everybody has their own personal space, but I appreciate you inviting me in that space and letting me come and talk to you about that, 'cause it means a lot. It's not a easy thing to do, so I appreciate it.

1:10:37David RobbinsWell, I, yeah, I don't, you know, I don't mind it, and, it's, it's all, you know, truth, and, I'm not afraid of the truth.

1:10:51Jawad MirYeah. But sometimes we run away from our own truths from ourselves, right? Just to…

1:10:55David RobbinsTrue

1:10:55Jawad Mir... But I'm glad that you're not in that space, because a lot of people, even in their 60s and 70s, are still running from the truth, right? So.

1:11:01David RobbinsWell, we're all running from something at, in some, at some level. I just try to keep it to a minimum. I try to face up to as much as I'm consciously able, you know?

1:11:14Jawad MirYeah.

1:11:14David RobbinsYou can... It's a matter of trying, you know? You've tried it... It's, like, very simple. You do the best you can, and don't sweat the details, you know?

1:11:27Jawad MirYeah. 100% I agree. The... And you reminded me of this little book series, Don't Sweat the Small Stuff.

1:11:33David RobbinsYeah.

1:11:33Jawad MirI don't know if you remember. Yeah. Right? And, I remember reading it as a kid, and now I understand the meanings behind it, because at that time you don't understand it. 'Cause really majority of us worry about the silliest and the smallest things.

1:11:46David RobbinsYeah.

1:11:46Jawad MirAnd so…

1:11:47David RobbinsAnd then, and by doing that, it, they become big things.

1:11:50Jawad MirThey…

1:11:50David RobbinsAnd they eat at you, and they eat at you.

1:11:52Jawad Mir100%.

1:11:53David RobbinsAnd, so don't s… you know, don't sweat the small stuff. And shit happens.

1:12:03Jawad MirShit happens. And there's a... I was watching Joe Rogan's podcast, and there was some author, I forget her name, she's, in her book she talks about talking about your problems… ... Only make your problems grow. Right? There's a, there's a difference between venting and a difference between constantly talking about the same thing…

1:12:21David RobbinsYeah

1:12:21Jawad Mir... 'cause you're feeding it into your brain, and it's affecting your body and everything in your health, so. So

1:12:26David RobbinsThis is true

1:12:26Jawad Mir... Yeah.

1:12:29David RobbinsI think, you know, and the, that is very true. And it's an art to... Well, it's a blessing to have an awareness of that. And it's, it's an art to following through on that with, for yourself. And it's a gift to yourself, you know? It's not, it's not denial, it's just, it's, why go there, you know? Small…

1:13:02Jawad MirWhat's the point? Nothing will, nothing will come of it. Yeah.

1:13:05David RobbinsRight. Yeah.

1:13:09Jawad MirAwesome, man. Thank you so much for your chat. I appreciate it. I might be in LA, it's still pending, 50/50, mid-October. If I am, and if you're around, let's get together.

1:13:18David RobbinsSounds good.

1:13:20Jawad MirAll right, man. Thank you again for your time and for opening up a little.

1:13:26David RobbinsThank you, man.

1:13:27Jawad MirThank you, buddy. Take care. Bye.

1:13:29David RobbinsBye-bye.