'Savior', Composer, David Robbins

0:08Jawad MirHi, David. How are you?

0:10David RobbinsI'm good, I guess. Late night. We were at the theater last night and did a… we started up again this thing that we did last year. Once a month we do this thing, called Open Workshop. And it…

0:25Jawad MirAh, right

0:25David Robbins... Like sitting in on our workshops, and it's all improv, and I do, music for it, per… percussion, and it's basically... Hang on a second here. I'm just turning that on. It's basically just, you know, s… being in the moment and just sitting there and reacting and sometimes pacing it, and, it's, it's a lot of fun.

0:57Jawad MirThat's good. That's good.

0:58David RobbinsYeah.

0:59Jawad MirGlad to hear that.

1:00David RobbinsYeah.

1:00Jawad MirThings are good otherwise? Well, on top of that, I mean.

1:04David RobbinsYeah. It's been, relatively busy, which is a good thing. And

1:08Jawad MirGreat

1:08David Robbins... Yeah.

1:10Jawad MirAwesome.

1:11David RobbinsHow are you?

1:12Jawad MirDoing good. You know, just, quite a bit of projects in development, and one I'll talk to you about the, at the end of the podcast.

1:22David RobbinsOkay.

1:22Jawad MirBut I saw Savior, just, like, it ended 20 minutes ago.

1:30David RobbinsOh, wow.

1:33Jawad MirWhat a film.

1:35David RobbinsWow, yeah. It's, it's pretty intense, huh?

1:38Jawad MirI didn't expect things that came the way they showed, the killings were shown, like especially towards the ending, you know, where there was…

1:48David RobbinsYeah

1:48Jawad Mir... Off the…

1:49David RobbinsYeah

1:50Jawad Mir... The off the bus scene.

1:52David RobbinsYeah. Oh, boy, yeah

1:53Jawad Mir... I really, I... You know how when something bad is gonna happen in a movie and you think, "Okay, it happened once, and it happened twice," and it may not happen third one at time because there will be somebody will save the day?

2:09David RobbinsYeah.

2:09Jawad MirAnd with that scene specifically, I mean, there were so many other scenes in the film, but that scene specifically, I did not ex… I was expecting something good to happen… ... And I was completely shocked. Like, it was a very tormenting scene. Like, the whole film I think was very tormenting. I mean, in…

2:28David RobbinsYeah

2:28Jawad Mir... A good way, right? Like, it's a painful film. It had to be shown in a way, in that way because I don't think there has been a film, about the Bosnia, war in the, from 1992 to 1995 that I have seen.

2:44David RobbinsYeah

2:45Jawad Mir... But what a, what a crazy movie. Great movie, but obviously on something that people have forgotten about, but your music added some great, layers to the emotions. And what I love about y… you know, you and I talked about Dead Man Walking, and now this, the music only came in when it was necess… necessary. Like, you know, not this, like, having, like, an hour-long soundtrack.

3:14David RobbinsRight.

3:15Jawad MirAnd amazing. I'm still shaking. I think it was a great film and the music was phenomenal.

3:23David RobbinsIt was, it was really something to experience, and I was with it early on. They were still shooting when they brought me on, and they flew me over to, Serbia and, I stayed for a couple of weeks, a week and a half, two weeks, and basically met the director there, and he had basically heard about me, I guess, from Dead Man Walking and, saw that and was interested in, incorporating, the feel and the, and the, music of the country and, which is something I love to do and just dive into listening to things and, you know, they... I had access, to the state radio archives in, Serbia in Belgrade, and i… it was, like a kid in a candy store.

4:28David RobbinsI mean, it was the, there was this woman that was, knew where everything was and, played me a whole bunch of things and certain melodies stuck out and we ended up using two of them. One of them is a, is a very famous, folk song from the country. Well, they're both, they're both famous, but, they're well-known there and, I incorporated, both of them into the score and it was, it was quite an experience. I went over three times. First time was to meet and to be on set and kind of get a feel of what was going on, and, also went to Montenegro and the,.. Which was, God, it was beautiful there. A coast town called Budva, and, stayed there and, but in Belgrade I did research and I wanted to see if I could, record there, and I came back in a second time and, set all that, see if I could set it up basically, 'cause they didn't do things like this like they do in Prague or in other spots in Europe that were, popular and, still cost-effective in a lot of ways.

5:50David RobbinsAnd, I decided I could do it and I had the funds to do it, and, came back the third time to record and basically I had, in that second trip I had found folk musicians from the area that, I wanted to use and, was able to... Found out I was able to get them and use them. And there was a, this gentleman, his name was, Kornel Kovacs, who's a famous, composer in Serbia, and he kind of... He came on board, and he was like my guru there, basically. He, connected me with everything I needed, and he was there all the time, and it was like a blessing to have him there. And third time was, you know, to gather and, set up the studio, and it was a challenge to say the least.

6:57David RobbinsIt was a se… you know, a, Soviet era studio, and it was, you know, not used that often, in those days. And the glass that is b… the partition between the control room and the studio was, like, all, like, yellowed from nicotine. It was crazy. And we had to use everything they had to get it going, 'cause we used, like, a 60-piece orchestra, and, we also, used a choir from the local, area and soloists. You know, s… solo singer and, a group, four, a quartet of singers that do acapella and, were just fantastic. And then, several musicians from the area.

7:57David RobbinsYou know, a, percussionist and, a flute player who was also, like, a legend there. His name is Bora Dugic. And, a few other, great musicians that just lent, lended that flavor. And, it was, it was really a profound experience because, you know, having seen the cut, obviously, you know, and having written the cues and all that, it was kind of a thing in similar ways to Dead Man Walking where you kinda had to, shut down your emotions at, after a point. You know? To basically self-protection because, you know, you could…

8:43Jawad MirYeah

8:43David Robbins... Wallow in it and get lost in it and... So, you know, you use that to find the,.. Where the music needs to go, and then you kinda have to shut it down just so you can work, you know, and get it done. And, so it was that kind of a process with that as well, 'cause it is a intense, story. And, you know, the story itself, I mean, it is brutal, but it is the way war is. You know?

9:19Jawad MirYeah.

9:19David RobbinsIt's not putting any sugarcoating on it, you know? And, the director who also wrote it, his name is, Gaga…

9:32Jawad MirYeah

9:32David Robbins... Antonijević Pedrag, and, he was, an activist there, and a filmmaker. You know, he made a lot of films, but he also made some things that got him in trouble and, you know, he was jailed by the Milošević, people for a while there as well for some of the work that he did in the past.

10:00Jawad MirBefore the film was made?

10:01David RobbinsYeah. Yeah. Actually, we... Wh… when this all was happening and when I was there, Milošević was still in power, and, it was kind of there was a lull, but the wars elsewhere, in that country were not over yet, you know?

10:24Jawad MirYeah.

10:24David RobbinsAnd, the first time I came, was literally a f… less than a week after this whole, student protest was happening in the downtown square, and it was huge, and, it got violent and six people were killed. And, when I was there, they were doing another pro… protest. And, one of the people there said, "Do you wanna, do you wanna go?" And I said, "Sure." So I went, and I took pictures and I wish I could find those pictures. They're somewhere, but I don't know where they are. But it was just a… amazing. I mean, they wouldn't let them in the square this time, so they set up all their whole partying and, loudspeakers and people speaking and music playing, and it was very festive.

11:26David RobbinsAnd there's this whole line of, storm trooper guys, you know, with their shields and the helmets and masks and stuff, completely armed and everything, but it was peaceful. And, it was,.. That was something to be a part of.

11:46David RobbinsIt was,.. The whole experience was profound and, something I'll never forget.

11:55Jawad MirYeah. You know, what's, what's... I'm kinda going segue here of, away from... I don't like, really like to discuss politics on this podcast, but this film is literally about that.

12:09David RobbinsYeah.

12:09Jawad MirYou know, it's, it's just… One thing I always wonder, not just in this, in this sense of the, film, but in general, like, you know, it's not to take away killing, but it's one thing to shoot somebody, not that I have done that or I will ever do that, and that I know how that is, but there is that at least that distance, there's not that physical contact between you and that other person, as tormenting as that may be afterwards you may have done that. But to physically do something with a knife or a hammer, right, as in one of the scenes, because you're right there and there's that contact that you're making with that person, and to do it so casually, I mean, I always wonder how... Where have you been to become someone like that? Like, what happened? I'm not justifying anyone's actions, but, like, how do you become someone like that? It's insane.

13:08David RobbinsWell, it's,.. A lot of it is hate, and

13:12Jawad MirYeah, but still, I get it, but at that level? You know what I mean?

13:16David RobbinsYeah. Well, it's, it's about, you know, I kind of associate this movie with, someone who has lost their soul, you know, that ha… has lost their humanity.

13:29Jawad MirYeah.

13:29David RobbinsAnd, you know, the main character that Dennis plays is, you know, it… a perfect example of that. But then the examples of that, what you see and what other people see, and the father and the daughter and, you know, the disowning and all of this tragedy that's happening is all based on people just being, slowly, losing their humanity and their empathy, and it's all about us versus them. And that justifies, it becomes a justification in your mind, for these people to do horrible things. And it went both ways, you know? It went, you know, it was, it was ethnic upon ethnic and, you know, tribal, you know, tribal areas, you know. And, tribalism. And, slowly but surely it all ebbs away and it becomes, animal, you know, just animalistic and it is, it's a tragedy and it's, all too common in war and how wars start and how wars continue and how in that case there in the Bal… in the, in the, Balkans, the, this is hundreds and hundreds of years of, that tribalism.

15:06David RobbinsAnd, with a lot of, you know, moments of peace and harmony and all that, and then it kind of all breaks down and that's what, that's what, the, that, the governments and, the people were basically giving themselves license to do things that is going back hundreds of years, you know, to settle scores. It's

15:35Jawad MirYeah

15:35David Robbins... It's, it's not something that just pops up out of nowhere, you know?

15:38Jawad MirYeah, no, agreed. But having said that, it's one thing when two militaries are fighting each other, right? Like…

15:47David RobbinsYeah

15:47Jawad Mir... But it's another thing to ethnically cleanse… ... People. It doesn't matter what religion you belong to, it goes in every direction. To ethnically cleanse a group of people w… and that's the only thing that you're doing, like, you're just literally killing civilians, for the sake of hatred…

16:09David RobbinsYeah

16:10Jawad Mir... Without... Unless it's like a collateral damage, like, you know, you, again, that is bad it is, but, you know, you fire a missile at… to a military base and there are civilians there and they die, sure. But how much, how many times can that actually happen? You know, there's other... To f… intentionally kill civilians just because it makes you feel better or superior is just absolutely mind-boggling to me. And it applies to everybody. I'm not talking one side against the other. It's just an…

16:41David RobbinsYeah

16:41Jawad Mir... Insane thinking. But, you know, anyways, going back to the film, one of the things that aside from the music and everything, the story, you know, I was surprised, but I wasn't surprised. I mean, Dennis Quaid is a great actor, but he was really involved in this character. I could just see it in his eyes. Were you ever sort of, when you were on the set, did you ever come across any scene, particularly whether it was his or anyone else's that were w… while the filming was going on?

17:14David RobbinsYes. Not the,.. It was, it was more, it was like exterior stuff that was, you know, s… for instance, like, when they're, when he's, m… you know, trying to get out of the country and he… ... You know, ends up at, in the, on the coast, you know, at, with the baby after, you know, in the…

17:39Jawad MirRight

17:39David Robbins... The ending. But, I saw that and I saw, a couple of other scenes that were, that, those cruxes, you know, those moments, which is probably a good thing.

17:57Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

17:58David RobbinsI, and I, you know, Dennis was definitely, submersed in that role. And, I, you know, I met him, and we actually became friends, afterwards. And, spent some time together, and I ended up doing a movie that he starred and directed in for, cable. And

18:25Jawad MirWhich one was that, just out of curiosity?

18:27David RobbinsIt was called Everything That Rises, and it's about, people in Montana, this couple in Montana and, their, struggle and, their son and it,.. You know, there were, there's, there were mo… lots of moments of lightness in it, but also, really, serious stuff. And but with Savior, he was, yeah, he,.. I've never seen him in a role like that before, and…

19:06Jawad MirYeah

19:06David Robbins... Probably not since. But it was, just one of those things, you know? It was, something that he responded to and wanted to do, and he, invested everything he had in it, you know, and it shows.

19:22Jawad MirYeah. True. Your... W… g… going back to the music, you know, we talk about, you and I talked about Dead Man Walking and how you brought in, the mu… the late music maestro, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, from Pakistan.

19:38Jawad MirAnd you have this research about the folk music and all that, and that was very clear in this too. And you know, one of the things that I was wondering, you have a different take with music score, and again, I'm not trying to say anybody else doesn't. Everybody has a different style and approach. I just, I was wondering when the film ended as, you know, that your career has been great, I'm assuming. I mean, you've done some good films, right? But y… your style of music is not really out there that much, and why do you think that is the case? And you haven't been able to do, you know... Again, I'm not trying to draw comparisons, I'm just kinda speaking out loud here. You know, like John Williams or Hans Zimmer, or is it something that people don't understand in terms of your music? Is it totally too different for people to get it? Or is this just your, by choice for you what you wanna do in your c… life and your career?

20:39David RobbinsWell…

20:39Jawad MirOr maybe I'm completely wrong about all of them.

20:42David RobbinsNo, it's, it's, it, there's a truth in that, and, y… you have to, it, I guess it goes back to how I got into it in the first place. I wasn't trying to be a film composer, you know? I was a rock and roller and guitar player and, a little, unhappy with the thing, way things were going with that, and I wanted to do something different, and I landed into theater and s… and found out that I was good at putting music and, feeling to, live theater. And, started doing that and, really enjoyed it, and it was the style that, really kinda grounded you that the actors did, it's based on commedia dell'arte. And, it's, it's, no fourth wall and, a lot of improv and, workshopping and, ensemble work. And it was, it was just something that I, you know, I enjoyed and, I was just happened to be in the right place at the right time when somebody suggested that I, it, did she want to let them know if I was interested in doing a score that was, they were looking for a composer.

22:07David RobbinsAnd it was, I said, "Sure." And it was, like, Robert Downey Sr.… ... Who was directing this thing, you know, Putney Swope guy. And, he,.. It, I did that m… it was a comedy, and, shall we say, not really that funny. But, I, you know, I basically, you know, did a jazz score, and I'd never written jazz, although I was familiar with it, you know. I'd seen a lot of it and heard and listened to it a lot. And, just put this jazz score together and it worked well and, you know, everybody was happy and I said, "Okay, I kinda, let's see what we can do." And, you know, started, getting things and then, you know, that kind of a ethos that I have and that folk origin, that I come from is something that kinda naturally took hold and attracted me.

23:21David RobbinsAnd I, you know, I enjoy learning about folk music from all over the world because there's a commonality to it, you know? It has its, they have their, uniqueness in the region where they, where that comes from, but it's all the same in that it's a storytelling, simple storytelling with…

23:45David Robbins... With words and song. And, that is not, you know, that is orally passed down, from generation to generation. And, I had these opportunities to do these movies, and really flex that muscle, and, that's what attracted me. And I don't miss, not, you know, not going to a level, although, you know, it might have been nice. Who knows? I mean, you know, I was, I guess the closest I got were a couple of movies that, W… that I, was up for, and it was between me and one other composer, and the other composer, got it instead, and that's the way it goes. But I don't regret the path I took, at all.

24:42David RobbinsI, you know, yeah, I could have worked, I wished I would have worked more, but I've, I've done, you know, 50 films over the course of the years, and, that's pretty good. It's a good body of work, and I'm proud of it.

24:54Jawad MirGood.

24:55David RobbinsThere's nothing, there's no schlock that I really did, you know, that I just did for the money, you know. I like that, I like the challenge of, coming up with something that works, but not in a f… not in a typical way. That's what g… gets my blood going, and, that is seen by some people as, you know, they don't, they don't get it or whatever. But there are a certain type of director out there that is confident and knows what they want and, or is, you know, wants to experiment, and those are the type of directors that I attracted. And, I don't really have any complaints about it. You know, it's, it's just…

25:51Jawad MirGood

25:51David Robbins... It's, it's, it's hap… it made me happy and, you know, it's, it's, it's rewarding for me, and that's what counts, I think, rather than being miserable and stuck in a rut, you know, and stuck, you know, "Okay, you've gotta do another score exactly like this last one you did because it was so successful," you know?

26:10Jawad MirAnd I'm glad you said that because that's exactly what I was getting at, is that, not that there's anything wrong with a certain level of success and fame where people recognize your work, you know.

26:21David RobbinsYeah, notable. Yeah.

26:23Jawad MirBut at the same time, you know, the grass is green on the o… always on the other side. You wonder about, and I'm not just talking about music composers, but anybody in life, when you've got to a certain point, then you may feel that you may have missed on other stuff, right?

26:38Jawad MirLike, in that process of 15, 20 years of getting to where you are, or maybe you have not looked after your health or family spend, spending time with family. So in that sense, I think the key is always the journey and wherever you f… you as an individual or anyone finds the happiness, and that's it. You know, that's all that matters. But I was just curious because it's not, like, you know, if I was talking to you for the first time, and this is our third time, and if you had done Dead Man Walking, and then you wouldn't have done anything else good, you know, for the, just for the sake of argument, I would have guessed, okay, that was a fluke. But your work is great. Like, your work is really great. I mean, I, and I'm not just saying that because you're right now I'm talking to you, because it's just, it stands on its own, but at the same time it fits with the visuals really well, and that's a very difficult thing to do for a soundtrack to live on its own.

27:41Jawad MirSo just wanted to let you know that. It's, it's, it's impeccable work that you have done, and…

27:45David RobbinsThank you. I really appreciate it. It means a lot.

27:49Jawad MirYeah. In Savior, w… you kinda touched upon the folk and, you know, the s… two songs that you l… kind of collaborated on. What other cha… what was the biggest challenge that you had scoring the film, whether it was based on, whether it was based on the story and the visuals and detaching yourself or any other, like, just the process itself, what was the biggest challenge that you faced?

28:21David RobbinsThe challenge is what a lot of what I put on it, and it's just the way, the thing I learned with Dead Man Walking really in spades is that, when to use silence. You know, when to let silence be. You know, trust the drama and not put music in for music's sake. And it has to mean something. It has to guide the story. It can't lead it. You know, it can't, and it's, it's just a matter of, with me it's just trying things out, you know, just ex… having a little time to experiment with it and find the tone and find, where... And it's just, I don't know exactly how it all works because it kind of, you just are in it and you find these things, you know?

29:25David RobbinsAnd it's just a matter of, having a standard that I put on myself. And, it, has worked well for me. And, I, interesting thing about a challenge, when we were recording the orchestra, which was the first thing we did, you know, we were using every mic cable in the place and stretching them sometimes just so they could reach, you know, 'cause it's a big s… studio. And, but that was all done. I brought an engineer that I had worked with before from the States and, thank God I did. But, the orchestra, it was, the challenge was getting them to play together.

30:25Jawad MirReally?

30:25David RobbinsYou know. Yeah. It was like… They were, it was like this sense that you got that they were all in it for themselves, and it was, it comes back, it comes back from the Soviet era, where nobody took responsibility for anything, and, they were out for themselves, you know? Make themselves look good and you know, I got, I had, three French horns in this, mix, and they couldn't play together and be on pitch together.

31:00Jawad MirYeah.

31:00David RobbinsSo we'd always start out, we'd do a cue with all three of them when they, when it was written that way, and, then we'd kinda take it, okay, well, you sit out, and so we're down to two, then you sit out and we're down to one. Then it happened, you know, things like that happened, there a lot, and it was, it was so interesting. I mean, they were great players, but they were all, you know, all mostly familiar with, playing their classics, you know, and the classics that they, you know, the classical music that they were trained on, and that's the way, you know, they did things, you know? And

31:46David RobbinsIt was very interesting. The folk musicians, on the other hand, were just all in, and, you know, there was... One challenge was the flute player, Bora, who, like I said, was, you know, very well known there, and so was Cornel Kovach, and, he was kind of, resistant at first. He was not open at all, and, it was basically he didn't trust me, and, Cornel, you know, talked with him a while, and he couldn't understand why Cornel was helping me, you know?

32:31David RobbinsWhy should somebody with that status help me? And Cornel said something that changed the whole, vibe, and he said, "To learn." And all of a sudden everything, you know, just kind of,.. And I was floored by it, and, all, you know, all of a sudden, you know, the whole, mood changed and Bora just, you know, he's this, he's a master at the flute. He, all his flutes, comes with this big duffle bag of flutes, all handmade by him.

33:10Jawad MirWow. Wow.

33:13David RobbinsAnd, I gave him, you know, he had basic melody, but he was to, you know, play on it, and he really did, and, boy, it was something. And, you know, at the end of the day, he, you know, he gave me all his CDs and he said, "Here, please listen, please listen." It was great. But you know, there were, there were, it was challenges in that it's, it's different than h… it is here, you know? It's, it's

33:45Jawad MirCultural, right?

33:47David RobbinsAnd they're not, it's not, they're not used to doing that. They weren't then, you know, having foreigners come in and, hire, and for hire, you know

33:56Jawad MirYeah

33:56David Robbins... And doing work for hire. And, so it w… it was, it was different, and it was a, it was a gamble and, you know, we s… we're stretched thin, but it worked, you know?

34:10Jawad MirYeah.

34:12David RobbinsThere was one…

34:12Jawad MirYeah, it's inter… Sorry, go on.

34:14David RobbinsJust gonna say, there was one cue, it's the, that chase scene… ... With the car, and there's this big upbeat dramatic piece that I did, that I wrote in a, in a meter that is familiar to, that, the folk music there, and it's this weird meter. I don't even remember offhand what it was. It was something like, 12/7 or something like that. I d… I don't remember, but, I ha… I had this all written and it was great, and the orchestra couldn't play the whole thing. They pl… they, I had to have them play it in sections, and then, piece it together later, and had the, you know, I mean, the folk musicians handled it grace, great, especially the percussionist. He was, fantastic with it. But I had to end up, piecing parts together, in, post, you know, af… afterwards back here.

35:22David RobbinsAnd, that was, that was, you know, sweat time. That was a huge cue. But, it worked, you know? I mean, I put it together and, had to do a little, jimmying, but it worked well, you know, it ended up working well. And, you know, things like that happened and those are the, you know... But in every project, you know, there are something that happens that has to be overcome and, it's just part of the, part of the gig, you know?

35:59Jawad MirYeah. Yeah. No, it's, it's funny you mentioned about the orchestra and the cul… like, there's always, in anything in life, there's a cultural difference, and especially in the... Even though music is such a universal language, but there's still the way the work ethics are so different in Japan versus the former…

36:18Jawad Mir... Soviet Union, versus, Middle East, versus South Asia, versus North America, and it's interesting how you bring that element of universal language together even though it's the same thing, but just from a different work ethic standpoint.

36:32Jawad MirI always find that interesting and fascinating. My… My next, kind of ta… talking point/question is, what... Do you remember the first time you saw the complete cut with the music, like mixed, color graded, and everything? And if so, do you remember your ex… experience after watching the film or your mindset?

36:58David RobbinsYeah. It was, it was a while after it was done that I got a chance to see it, you know, but I think it was probably the first screening with an audience. And ... I was... It was enough time from the time I had finished it and moved on to seeing it again, and it was like being more objective, you know, b… more, subjective.

37:27Jawad MirYeah, you were detached.

37:29David RobbinsI was more detached and I... You know, and there... And it really hit me. And I was,.. You know, those emotions that you put down came flooding in and, it, you know, s… it was more like that experience of, seeing it in a, in a way for the first time even though I'd seen it 1,000 times, you know.

37:54Jawad MirYeah.

37:54David RobbinsBut in a different way. And, that was, probably, you know, that was another profound thing about that experience that, made me love what I do, you know. I mean, it was a, it was a reaffirmation of that, I'm, I'm doing something good and I, you know, I'm, I'm making a piece of... I did a piece of work that in a... You know, when I get detached and have spent lots of time from seeing something, and I kinda see it new for a first time in a way, it's really,.. It makes me,.. It just makes me happy, you know, that I had a chance to do that, and I don't even re… You know, sometimes it amazes me. I wrote that?

38:56David RobbinsIt's crazy. It's like…

38:58Jawad MirYeah

38:58David Robbins... Holy cow. I mean, and I truly believe that ele… that element is something that is, a universal thing, that

39:11Jawad MirIt is

39:11David Robbins... The compos… the classical composers back centuries ago never claimed ownership of the music. They... You know, there was no such thing as copyright or, you know… They attributed it to God, you know. God gave me this, you know. I'm a vessel. And in my sense, in the way I look at it is it's a univers… it's a universe thing, you know, that once you trust and open yourself to, what is out there, it will provide and will inspire you. And you do your work. You do the work, but you are open to... You can't go in having decided what this is gonna be, right? You have to let…

40:13Jawad MirYeah

40:13David Robbins... It come to you. You have to let that, speak to you. You have to let the movie speak to you. What d… what does it want, you know? And keep yourself open and it will provide. The universe will provide.

40:34Jawad MirCouldn't agree with you more on that. I couldn't agree with you more on that. You know, the, going back just to the last part in the film that I wanna sort of just make a comment on, the juxtaposition in this film, right, losing somebody and then taking revenge for it, and then kind of going back in circle, ending up with someone that you don't want to associate yourself with and then just having that, responsibility. Like especially in the end…

41:08Jawad Mir... You know, when the, when he's in the boat and then the cat comes in and then…

41:16David RobbinsYeah

41:16Jawad Mir... The baby's, the baby's not responding, and then what follows that and how he breaks down. I mean, that was just... That was such like a, sort of like a closure… ... To his arc, you know, from the very beginning after he loses his family to that point, and him being like, sort of like a hard-boiled, you know, cold-hearted individual throughout the film.

41:41David RobbinsYeah.

41:41Jawad MirIt was, it was incredible that how a sound of a baby just completely melts you away.

41:49David RobbinsYeah. It's, it's that journey that he made from losing his humanity to finding it.

41:58Jawad MirYeah. It's amazing, and I loved it.

42:02David RobbinsYeah.

42:02Jawad MirI mean, we can, we can talk about it for hours. But again, loved your music and I was trying to find it somewhere on Spotify or Apple and I couldn't. At least on Apple I tried. I don't know if it's on Spotify. Is it available somewhere online or...?

42:16David RobbinsIt's, it's not released as a score. I have seen,.. I mean, people have, lifted it from the movies in some cases, you know, and it kind of appeared that way, you know, but usually… ... With a scene or something, you know. But the, The two folk…

42:41Jawad MirThat's a s…

42:42David RobbinsThe folk song that's called Rasti, which the, quartet sings, as acapella over the end credits, but also in the movie I do an arrangement of it for the, prisoner exchange.

42:57Jawad MirRight

42:57David RobbinsAnd, that starts off acapella and then, you know, grows with a, an orchestra. But that,.. I forgot my, what I was gonna say, but I mean, but the thing about that was, it was li… it was... People love that song. You know, the people in, Serbia, you know, that's a huge song for them.

43:28David RobbinsAnd it's, it's,.. And they would always, that we'd get lots and lots of requests, that still happen today…

43:37Jawad MirWow

43:37David Robbins... You know, about, "Do you have that, do you have that released?" And I, you know, I, unfortunately I don't. But, I, have used those pieces, in, you know, like demo reels for, putting up what it…

44:01Jawad MirYeah

44:01David Robbins... Whatever. But the interesting story about that song, Rasti, I don't remember the whole title in the language, but, it's a story about, a husband and a wife, and they're planting a tree in their yard because, the husband, the legend is the husband is going off to war. And he goes, after they plant the tree, it grows. And then the, it, the song is a lament, and it's the, it's the wife singing, urging the tree to grow. 'Cause when it grows, when it's grown, her husband will return.

44:45David RobbinsAnd it's just like, when I first heard that in those state radio archives, I had, I'd had no idea what the words were, but the music spoke.

44:55Jawad MirYeah.

44:56David RobbinsAnd it was clear, just so clear to me. And you, it's like that's how universal music can be, you know, in a story. That you don't understand a word, yet you know what they're talking about, you know? Like…

45:08Jawad MirYeah

45:09David Robbins... You know?

45:09Jawad MirYou could feel it. You could feel it.

45:11David RobbinsYou could just feel it. And, you know, there, that was, that was really, that was that favorite piece of folk music from that region. And, I, and I'm glad I did, I'm glad I did those people proud too. I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's a nice…

45:37Jawad MirI'm sure

45:37David Robbins... Nice feeling. So…

45:39Jawad MirYeah, no, I'm, I'm sure. It's awesome. That's great, man. Thank you.

45:43David RobbinsI could probably send you something if you like.

45:47Jawad MirYeah, I would love to. Love to.

45:48David RobbinsDownload, just so you can hear it in its... You know, out of context with the movie.

45:54Jawad MirThat'd be great. I appreciate you sharing that. I'll be obviously keeping it to myself.

45:58David RobbinsSure.

45:58Jawad MirNot gonna put it out there.

45:59David RobbinsYeah. Yeah.

46:00Jawad MirBut thank you, man. This has been great. Thank you so much.

46:04David RobbinsWell, thank you for having me again

46:06Jawad MirI hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for watching and listening. Don't forget to subscribe, like, share, and comment, and do come back for another episode. Until then, have a great day.