'Bad Boys', Composer, Mark Mancina

0:06Jawad MirWell, before we talk about Bad Boys, how have you been? What's been keeping you busy that you're officially allowed to talk about?

0:12Mark MancinaNo kidding, man. I've got, I have three movies, and I, none of them... I think the, I think Moana, the live action… ... That they're gonna do is announced, so I can say I'm doing that.

0:28Jawad MirFantastic.

0:29Mark MancinaBut another, I'm doing another project that I'm can't talk about, 'cause they haven't announced it yet.

0:33Jawad MirSure.

0:33Mark MancinaBut I've been working on it for a couple years. And then, and then there's a Moana five-part, Disney Plus series that's going to be a continuation of the Moana story.

0:46Jawad MirOkay.

0:46Mark MancinaAnd I'm working on that. So, we're in Moana land here.

0:53Jawad MirThat's fantastic, and I think the s… they both come out next year, right?

0:57Mark MancinaI, you know, I don't know, man. I think, I don't know. I think…

1:00Jawad MirOkay

1:00Mark Mancina... The Moana live action film's gotta be a year and a half off, because there's a lot to that. So I don't really know.

1:10Jawad MirThat's okay. That's okay. No, that's good. Keeping, things are keeping you busy. The project sounds very interesting, and I'm, I'm really looking forward to listening to your work. And, you know, in the meantime, I apologize, I forgot the name of that movie that you told me, and I listened to the soundtrack so many times after we talked.

1:29Mark MancinaWas it, was it Sea Beast?

1:31Jawad MirNo. The... Oh, I don't know what just happened. Sorry. It was the…

1:35Mark MancinaOh

1:35Jawad Mir... The der… the dramatic one, the one with the…

1:38Mark MancinaReturn to Paradise.

1:39Jawad MirYes. Oh, what a beautiful soundtrack.

1:42Mark MancinaThey changed the name…

1:43Jawad MirWhat a…

1:43Mark Mancina... Of that movie. They, it was Return to Paradise, and then I've seen something else. So, but thank you. I really think that's a strong movie. It got overlooked at the time, because Anne Ha… had just come out that she was gay, and it was kind of an odd time to make that announcement, because it was a romantic story, and it was just, it was a little bit weird going with the, their publicity that they were doing. So, it hurt the movie a little bit. But, you know, she's great in it, and Vince Vaughn is great in it, and of course Joaquin Phoenix is an amazing actor, and…

2:23Jawad MirYeah

2:23Mark Mancina... It was a, an underrated movie, and everybody I've, I've shown that movie to really thought it was quite good.

2:30Jawad MirIt was. But, you know, with the work that you have produced over the last, you know, two and a half, three almost decades, that to me, the ones that I've heard at least, like it just stood out so power… like, it was just very emotional. Because I listened to the soundtrack many times before I even watched the film.

2:50Mark MancinaOh.

2:51Jawad MirJust to, just to kinda get... And it actually struck me. It was really well done. So, you know, kudos to you.

2:56Mark MancinaThank you.

2:56Jawad MirAnd I think it's one of your best works, to be honest.

2:58Mark MancinaThank you. I mean, I have to say, I, it's my favorite. And as I say, so many people have not seen it. It's, it's, kind of a shame for me, because I didn't do a lot of movies like that, you know? 'Cause I wasn't really known for that kinda dramatic, say romantic type of score.

3:19Jawad MirYeah.

3:20Mark MancinaBut I really enjoyed doing it, and I remember the piece of music at the end which plays through a pretty heavy dialogue and

3:29Jawad MirRight

3:29Mark Mancina... You know, the whole ending, I wrote that entire... It's like five minutes long or something. And I remember it's one of the only times where I've written something, and the director came in, and I played it for him. And he looked at me and just went, "It's, it's exactly right. It's, like there's not one thing I can say about it." So it was, that's a once in a lifetime for a film composer, so.

3:54Jawad MirThat's beautiful. That's beautiful. And has there been any dramatic stuff that you ke… I know films kinda come to you, like, you know, or you…

4:03Mark MancinaYeah

4:03Jawad Mir... Has there been anything that's come close to, in terms of the storyline and premise, that you wish, you kinda ke… almost got it, but it didn't work out for whatever reason?

4:13Mark MancinaYou mean a film that I wanted to do that I, we didn't…

4:16Jawad MirYeah, the similar... Yeah, like something dramatic, like something like Return to Paradise.

4:19Mark MancinaOh, that happened to me, I can't even tell you how many films. I mean, you know, I was for quite a long... See, when I did, when I did Speed and Bad Boys and Twister, and, I was known for, "Well, that guy does, you know, high action"…

4:35Jawad MirYeah

4:35Mark Mancina... Outs. And, I did Return to Paradise somewhere in there, and I did a little fi… a really little film called Moll Flanders, and I really tried to push that style, and get those kind of movies. I mean, I even met with different producers that do those kind of movies, and, I just didn't get 'em. I mean, I ju… they just,.. You know, I think m… the one thing is that they didn't see Return p… to Paradise, so they couldn't cite that as…

5:06Jawad MirYeah

5:06Mark Mancina... A really beautiful score. They hadn't heard it, so they, it meant nothing to them. And so I never really got anything like that. I mean, the, m… August Rush was, you know, a romantic, very musical movie. So that would be sort of along those lines. But, and I've done... Well, you know, Joe Rubin, who I did Return to Paradise with, I first…

5:31Mark Mancina... Did, Money Train with him. And, you know, of course he hired me because it was an action movie, and so I was the action guy. But then he got to know me as more of a, you know, more than that. And, he asked me to do Return to Paradise. And, I did a few other projects with him, but, y… nothing, you know, that was really quite as gripping to me as that movie was and that score was.

5:56Jawad MirRight. Yeah. No, I hope that you get to do something similar, because I always find, like, you know, with Hollywood, you get pigeonholed… and then, and then I always... There are cer… very few filmmakers who see that as an opportunity, that, okay…

6:14Mark MancinaYeah

6:14Jawad Mir... This guy has not done something like this. If I give him that, he was gonna go…

6:18Mark MancinaYeah

6:18Jawad Mir... Completely all out and outdoing himself, right? And…

6:22Mark MancinaWell, I think that's the, you know, i… in Spielberg's, camp, I don't think that Steven Spielberg is necessarily that great with music, to be honest with you. I think that he was smart enough to hire John Williams, and every time he did a movie, it, whether it was a jazz score or a suspense score or a science fiction, it didn't matter. He gave it to John, for that reason, 'cause he knew that John would rise to the occasion and that he could handle it, and I think there's just not enough directors like that. I think directors are very frightened, and they, you know, they gotta go with who did the last big Marvel movie? That guy must be really good, you know?

6:59Jawad MirYeah.

7:00Mark MancinaSo.

7:00Jawad MirYeah, no, so true.

7:02Mark MancinaIt's just the way it is. You know, I'm not complaining.

7:05Jawad MirNo, I get it.

7:05Mark MancinaI have too much work.

7:06Jawad MirNo.

7:06Mark MancinaI can't, I don't even, I don't even have a, room for anything else, so, for years, I don't think. So, anyway.

7:13Jawad MirYeah. No, that's good. That's good. Well said. And, you know, going to Bad Boys, we kinda touched upon Bad Boys last time we chatted, but let's kinda go from the start. You know, you talked about that how you guys used Speed as the temp music for Bad Boys. And then…

7:30Mark MancinaI think a lot of it was, yeah.

7:32Jawad MirYeah. And then the notes were kind of reversed, but just working, like the starting process on working on Bad Boys, after the production was done, working with Michael Bay, just in the beginning process, how did that develop into your sort of relation, working relationship with Michael Bay in the very beginning?

7:52Mark MancinaWell, first of all, so Jerry, when Jerry Bruckheimer does a movie, he's very involved in the music.

8:04Jawad MirOkay

8:04Mark Mancina... He's, he's got, you know, he's, he's not, he's a smart guy, and, so with Michael, with any director, Jerry had a tendency to sort of be the final word. Whether the director liked it or not, it didn't matter, 'cause if Jerry didn't like it's not gonna happen.

8:19Jawad MirGot it.

8:20Mark MancinaSo my first... And of course, Michael Bay was, wasn't anybody, and so he was a commercial, he had done some commercials from what I knew. So…

8:28Jawad MirYeah

8:28Mark Mancina... I wasn't really, I wasn't really worried about Michael Bay, although I should have been. But I wasn't really worried about him. I was more concerned about what Jerry thought, and Jerry's partner, what's his name? I mean, they…

8:41Jawad MirDon Simpson.

8:42Mark MancinaDon Simpson. And so…

8:44Jawad MirYeah

8:44Mark Mancina... Those guys, I mean, they were ter… they terrorized me, because, I was young, and, a… and I, it was new, and, they really wanted me to do the movie. But they would literally come into my studio with newspapers and read the newspaper while I was playing the cue to them. And s… sometimes they'd put the newspaper down and go, "No, that's not even you. You didn't even write that. That's garbage. P… play something else." I go, "What?" You know, I mean, it was like that to where... And, you know, and then I would write something, and Jerry would call me and go, "Thank you. That is absolutely brilliant." And then I would feel so good, you know? And then the next day they'd come in, and they would hate what I did. So I remember at a certain point, Jerry probably could tell that I was losing sleep, and that I was new at it, and, 'cause he, I went out to his car, and he said, "Look, Mark, this is how we work. This is how we do things, you know?

9:44Mark MancinaSo just hang in there." So it was kinda like, you know, "We're going to tell you we don't like things just to keep pushing you harder and harder," because I heard Jerry say once that he thought the composers were really lazy. And, I don't, I mean, in my case it's not true, but I, you know, I think, I think his feeling is that, you know, the harder you push somebody, the better you'll get out of them. And, I'm not so sure that's true, 'cause I wrote some really great stuff, that w… got changed that n… didn't need to be, and, you know, there were some cues that really turned out great. But, you know, a… after so much scrutiny, I mean, they were really good to begin with, so I don't know. I don't know. It was difficult. Now I go back and listen to that main theme, and I really enjoy it, and I believe they're still using it. I mean, I know they used it on, Bad Boys 3, I think.

10:39Jawad MirYeah.

10:40Mark MancinaAnd I think they're doing a Bad Boys 4. I don't know. That's what I heard

10:43Jawad MirOh, are they?

10:44Mark MancinaI heard that. I don't know if that's true.

10:47Jawad MirAnd, you kinda mentioned this a little bit, that, you know, the theory of pushing certain people to their limits in order to get better results from them. And you said that you don't think that it, that's true, which I feel the same way, but at the same time, especially someone who's not in the case where you were in that beginning stage, I mean, like really, you know, early part of their career, not just film and anything, d… do you feel it's important if somebody has that certain amount of talent but they're not pulling it out of themselves, and sometimes you have to push people to do that? Or is that a bad move, in your opinion?

11:26Mark MancinaNo, I think, but I mean, and I can only speak for composers that I know, you know?

11:30Jawad MirSure.

11:30Mark MancinaI can't speak for all the guys out there. I…

11:32Jawad MirYep.

11:32Mark MancinaWhat I do know is they pay us good money. We have a deadline. You know, we're working for big studios. There's already a lot of pressure on us, you know? We don't need somebody to say, "Oh, man, he's just sitting around. He's not even working on this." because, in order to stay alive in this business, you need to work hard. And you, that, you can't, you can skate by, I think, a lot. I think some guys do. I hear some scores, and I just go, "Wow." But I think most guys work very hard at this, and, it's very time-consuming, and so… You know, a lot of the times, by the time you play, you know, the 24th cue or the 25th cue for your director, you're pretty tired. And you've been working really hard, and so it's very difficult to, feel that you need to be pushed.

12:24Jawad MirRight.

12:24Mark MancinaIt just doesn't, it doesn't make sense to me.

12:28Jawad MirNo, I…

12:28Mark MancinaI, people work like that. There's a lot of people that work like that. I've worked with pe… a lot of people that work like that. But I just don't, that just doesn't,.. I don't know. Also, as you get older…

12:39Jawad MirI…

12:39Mark Mancina... You start to feel like, I just can't, you know, I, if you don't respect…

12:43Jawad MirYeah

12:43Mark Mancina... And if you don't, if you aren't excited that I'm working for you on this, then I'm the, it's a wrong match, you know?

12:50Jawad MirYeah. No, I feel it's even true when it comes to like, you know, post-production, because post-production and music composing, you know, it's a similar kind of a thing, like, where you're just kinda sitting there and trying to come up with the story or the music and all that. And there have been cases i… in my life as well, like way back, about 12 years ago, where I would kill myself to work for this lady for, like, 15 bucks an hour. You know, start of my career, and she was never satisfied. And it gave me a reel for, like, maybe, six months, but the money was garbage, and the amount of work that, even on Christmas Day working. So I get that. Like, I, the whole pushing thing, sometimes it needs, there needs to be a balance. You can't just expect people to give up their life and just, you know, be completely dedicated to one thing. But yeah, no, I totally un… understand and I agree with that.

13:54Mark MancinaI think also, your reputation, you know, should play into it. You know, if it's your first movie, they can push you around.

14:00Jawad MirYeah.

14:00Mark MancinaBut if it's your, you know, 30th movie, they gotta figure you've got some experience of what you've been doing. If you're…

14:07Jawad MirExactly

14:08Mark Mancina... Still doing it and you still pa… getting paid to do it, you must do something right, you know? So.

14:12Jawad MirAbsolutely. Absolutely. And then with Jerry, you know, wor… and Don working with you and all that, w… at what, point Michael came in? Was it pretty well into th…

14:25Mark MancinaWell, he came in at the be…

14:26Jawad MirOkay

14:26Mark Mancina... He came in at the beginning, and, you know, he just, he was still finding his feet. You know, he knew, he certainly knew how to film something and all of that, all, the technical parts of what he does, and the amazing, sequences that he would put together were fantastic. Th… I had an advantage also, m… m… my, I was, I think I was living with him. The editor and I were buddies, and, you know, he was editing the film, so we were connected that way. So m… m… you know, there was a sense of that I wasn't against their team. I was kinda on their team. And Michael, yeah, the frustrating thing was that Michael really liked... Well, at the time, he really liked my score to Bad Boys, you know? I remember a couple times, and for him to say this is unbelievable, but he said that, you know, I'd be doing all of his movies in the future.

15:27Mark MancinaNow, of, you know, Bad Boys II is what happened, and that kinda ended the relationship. But, which the two movies always end relationships. But, the, you know, Michael was okay. I mean, there were times, you know, when he would just not like something, which I couldn't figure out why he wouldn't like it, but for the most part, he kinda, I kinda think he was happy the music was getting done. And, you know, you know, and Jerry, you know, Jerry wants to win awards, and he wants the music to win awards, and he pushes. And that's okay. It's just not the environment I wanna work in anymore. But, you know, it was a great experience. But I remember, The Rock was the next movie, and I was like, "No, just can't do it. You know, I can't go into that again, f… right now." it wasn't until, I don't know when that was, three or four, five years later that they asked me to do Bad Boys II.

16:29Jawad MirHm. And totally up to you if you wanna talk about it, I'm not looking for any controversies, but in terms of you said that, you know, after Bad Boys II, things kinda went south.

16:42Mark MancinaYeah.

16:42Jawad MirWas it, was it because... Yeah, what was the reason, if that's something you're willing to share?

16:47Mark MancinaYeah, th… well, there was a couple reasons. I had built a studio up in, Lake Arrowhead, a pretty extensive studio. And, I had my crew up there and, we started the Bad Boys II movie, but I believe that I was already committed... Boy, this is hard to remember. But there was something else going on during that time that I was committed to, and I think that, in earnest, I started Bad Boys II, and I wrote, I think, some of my best stuff. It was, it was based on the Bad Boys I themes, but updated and edgier. Really good. And, I was really happy about it. And, Michael Bay hated it. I mean, he absolutely hated it. But he hated it, I think, because I wasn't in his office. Because what ended up happening is, Jerry called me and said, "You need to move all of your...

17:48Mark MancinaHow much will it cost us to move all of your equipment into Michael Bay's office?" And I said, "What? I can't do that. I mean, I've built a whole studio. I'm, I have a baby, you know? I'm, I'm, you know, I'm delivering great work, and you want me to g… move everything?" And he goes, "Yeah, that's what you gotta do." And I just said, "No." I mean, I, you know, I… Number one, it's not gonna make a better score. And…

18:16Mark Mancina... Number two, if I felt like the music was really not working, you know, I would've been the first to say, "Yes, we're not connecting. It's not good." But the music was really good. In fact, they used some of it in the final product, which is the funny, the funniest part about it. But, I think what happened was I got Trevor Rabin involved... No, I got Trevor Rabin involved in Con Air…

18:40Mark Mancina... First, and then I think we did Bad Boys II, and I think he helped with Bad Boys II, and then he, and then he took it over, because I was doing The Lion King on Broadway. I think that's what it was. And I had to go to…

18:50Mark Mancina... Minnesota and put this gigantic musical together, and I was still on the first seven cues that they just kept turning down. I mean, I've talked to Mark Isham, I've talked to Alan Silvestri. This has happened to all these guys, you know, where it's like, you know, they play the first three or four cues for Michael Bay or for Jerry, whoever, and they just, "Nope." You know? And then you hear the final movie and you go, "That's what they wanted? Really?" You know. But I think it's part of the, part of the push you and push you and, you know, no matter what you play them first, it's not gonna be... It might, the first thing they might love, and then, but the second thing they're not gonna love, 'cause they're not gonna let you think that you're just nailing it, you know.

19:34Jawad MirIt's, it's interesting, and I'm not talking about them in particular, just in general, even in any kind of workforce, you know, whether you're private or, arts or whatever, life and sciences. I, there are certain people who would push you for the reason of pushing you just to get the better out of you.

19:51Mark MancinaYeah.

19:51Jawad MirBut I also, but I also think a lot of people do it so you, y… you have this fear for them, and then you do... And you don't produce good work out of fear. You just…

20:02Mark MancinaNo, I don't think so. And I think some guys do. I think there are some guys that are, that are, you know... It's a, it's an alpha thing. I mean, Jerry's an alpha, man. I mean…

20:11Jawad MirYeah

20:12Mark Mancina... And I like him a lot, and I think he's extremely talented and gr… obviously very successful and great at what he does. I just think that him and I, we could've been an amazing team, 'cause I think I could've written him some g… great stuff in the future. But I think that I'm, it, our working way didn't work for me. I just didn't, I couldn't, I didn't have enough armor to just keep getting, you know, bashed and just kinda keep brushing it off like, "Ah, don't worry about it." I just don't have that. I k… I take it all…

20:41Mark Mancina... To heart. I take my music to heart, which is kind of a problem, but it's the way I am, so the way I'm made.

20:48Jawad MirNo, that's, I'm glad that you, are open about it, because I get, I... It's difficult sometimes because, you know, certain people are, they're very emotionally attached to their work. And not that you're not looking for any kind of feedback, it's just y… sometimes you need to have a right balance, and it's about dealing with, the art of dealing with people. And I think that's where the skill set comes, too, is like certain people can get a lot of good work out of people by just being balanced.

21:18Jawad MirAnd it works with some people, and it just doesn't work with some people.

21:21Mark MancinaYou know, and I, the people I work with right now, I'm working with Disney a lot, and people I've grown up, basically grown up with…

21:28Jawad MirYeah

21:28Mark Mancina... Who are now running the company, the music departments, you know, they treat me like an e… like we're, we're colleagues, you know? We're trying to, we're trying to make something really great. It's not a matter of…

21:40Mark Mancina... I'm gonna need to grind you down a little bit, you know? There just isn't any of that, and so I'm very used to that kind of respect. And I like it, and I do really good work. And so I think that's, that just works better for me.

21:55Jawad MirYeah. No, I think the key…

21:56Mark MancinaIt's kinda why I'm not, it's kinda why I'm not in the live action scene, you know? I don't do much live action anymore. It's a different, it's a different scene, and, you know, I haven't, I don't have relationships in that world, that I've done things with, because I've done so many animated movies, and so many, you know, sm… you know, like August Rush. The, that type of film that takes a long time, not really well seen, but s… has a cult following. Quite a cult following.

22:30Jawad MirYeah. No, I... And do you, part of you wishes sometimes that you do live action now? Like if somebody, an offer came that you liked, like in terms of the script?

22:40Mark MancinaThe trouble with it now is, I mean, if I weren't, if I weren't... Sorry. If I weren't working… ... And somebody came along with something that was, looked cool, really cool. But, I'm, I've got so much work that if somebody did come to me with something... Sorry. If somebody did…

23:03Jawad MirIt's okay

23:04Mark Mancina... Come to me... Oh, I see what's going on. Hopefully Marlon will pick it up. If somebody did come to me with something, I wouldn't be able to take it right now anyway. So you know, it's, it's not something that I could just jump on. I was kinda surprised. I mean, they, you know, they're doing Twister 2.

23:27Jawad MirYeah.

23:27Mark MancinaAnd I was kinda surprised that, except that I couldn't do it. But you know, I wasn't really even in the running, which is bizarre to me, because it was such a smash, and I get asked for that music all the time. In fact, they just performed it in Monter… the Monterey Symphony just performed part of Twister. And I don't know, you know, it's just a strange business, you know? It's weird. But as I say, if I got a call tomorrow to do that movie, I'd have to turn it down 'cause I have too much work. So you know, things have to balance out.

24:03Jawad MirYeah. But in general, if you, if your schedule was, let's say a little bit more flexible, if something came up, you would definitely take it as provided you love the script and everything, and the people you work with?

24:13Mark MancinaYeah, there's a lot of questions. I mean, you know, the script is one big question. Who are you working for?

24:17Jawad MirYeah.

24:17Mark MancinaYou know, who…

24:18Jawad MirThat's what I was gonna ask you, yeah.

24:19Mark MancinaYou know, what do you think, you know? And those are questions, of course, when you're coming up, you don't ask those questions because anyone who wants to hire you know, I mean, you know.

24:27Jawad MirYou'll, you'll take it.

24:28Mark MancinaI'd love to work with you know. But, At this point now you realize, okay, well I'm gonna be dealing with this person for the next, you know, year or six months, whatever it's gonna be, and, I gotta make sure we're simpatico.

24:43Jawad MirYeah.

24:44Mark MancinaOtherwise I'm gonna regret it.

24:47Jawad MirYep. No, that's, that's very important. Synergy is very important. And I think like you said, like when you're young and upcoming, you'll just take whatever, but after a certain time, you know, if you've been around for a while, y… you wanna make s… choices that are, that balance your life and your personality as well.

25:07Mark MancinaYeah. Absolutely.

25:10Jawad MirW… do you remember anything in particular from either of the Bad Boys movies from the standpoint of, coming up with a certain track and the challenges that you faced, aside from, you know, Michael or Jerry, just trying to come up with something that you guys were s… you were stuck on with your team, and how did you come out of it? And…

25:33Mark MancinaI, you know, I remember, gosh, I just... What I can't remember is what the order was, but, you know, I had to write that theme that the kind of the pop theme with the drum track and everything. I had to write that for a scene where they're in a car and they're kind of grooving to the Bad Boys theme. That was what the, you know, that was w…

25:59Mark MancinaAnd I didn't have a theme. So I wrote that piece, and that's the piece that Jerry really loved. And then I pulled from that, bum, that little riff, from that I pulled that into the score and started using that all over the place because now I had three notes or whatever it might, you know, and I had it. That really helped to shape things. And so i… i… in the same way Speed had a little motif, this one had a little motif, and it helped me, because there's so much action and with so much action, you just can't be doing 16th notes all the time and not have any melodic material to grab from. It's ridiculous. So, that really helped me out. Th… there's a long foot chase sequence, with Will Smith that was a big deal and it took a long time. There was a ton of cuts to it, a ton of versions to it. It was very long, and then it became six minutes and five minutes. But it was a really great sequence, and it's, it's pretty much music and action, and it's pretty fun, and I was proud of the way that turned out.

27:01Jawad MirRight. With Moana, the live action movie that you're working on, I forget the name of the director. I think it's Thomas something. The, Thomas

27:11Mark MancinaYeah. I…

27:12Jawad Mir... Something.

27:13Mark MancinaWe haven't, we haven't actually started it yet.

27:17Jawad MirOkay.

27:18Mark MancinaSo I don't, haven't met him yet. You know, Lin, L… this is, Lin's director from Hamilton.

27:26Jawad MirRight. Right.

27:27Mark MancinaAnd I think Lin, I mean, Lin's probably executive producing this movie, I would think. I don't know yet. I haven't, talked to him about this yet. But, they're, they are, you know, there was gonna be this big strike and I think it's not gonna happen. And so I think that everything is moving forward. So they're on kind of a good track.

27:51Jawad MirOkay. And are you already working on the series? Like, you're working with the directors to…

27:57Mark MancinaYeah. Yeah

27:57Jawad MirOkay. So let's…

27:58Mark MancinaThe series is going. And, that's a different team. That's, you know, Jordan, who wrote the, wrote the script to Moana, who directed Encanto is, really kind of in charge of this series and, we, y… we haven't really started scoring. We've been working on the songs, written by, two women, they're called B and B. I know them as Abigail and Emily, but, they're songwriters, they're young, and they've written some really great songs. And we're working on the songs first, probably try to get most of the songs together first before we get into the scoring of it. It's really beautifully laid out. It's gonna look really beautiful. And for Moana fans it'll be great because it's a continuation of Moana's life, so she's, like she's 21 I think now, and she's moving forward in her life. So it's, you know, more adventure and more stuff.

29:00Jawad MirRight. No, that sounds exciting, and I think I just read it right now, the series has been pushed back to 2024 from 2023, so you're, it was supposed to come out this year, I think, but then they pushed it to…

29:12Mark MancinaWell, yeah

29:12Jawad Mir... Next year

29:12Mark MancinaI was gonna say 2024. I hope so.

29:16Jawad MirWell, I don't know how old this article is or it's even accurate or…

29:19Mark MancinaBecause even, 'cause even that is, I'm not even sure. I mean, I don't know. You know, I, it's, it's hard to know when things are in post and then when they actually come out, you know? I remember August Rush was like two years later. So I mean, you know, you don't know. It might be in June, I, for all I know. But, not really sure. A lot of work ahead though.

29:41Jawad MirAnd what... For sure. And what, you know, everybody's different when they're at a certain age and, you know, you p… I always believe that after every 10, 15 years, everybody changes, like whether it's pol… their creative work, their political views, their personality, and then we keep evolving ourselves, right? And wh… who you were when you were working on Bad Boys, versus who you are now, what's the one piece of advice that you would give to yourself if you could go to the past?

30:14Mark MancinaYeah, I think, I think composers in general are very insecure. Doubt, you doubt yourself, a lot, and you're vulnerable because if you show something to somebody that you're working for and they reject it, there's no way that doesn't hurt, you know? There's no way that doesn't… You know? So I think I've learned, you know, one thing I've really tried to put forward in the last couple years is to not worry, 'cause you can worry about everything, and, you find yourself almost making up scenarios before you play something for someone. You're already making up stuff.

31:01Jawad MirOh, yeah.

31:01Mark MancinaYou know. So I don't, I really try not to do that anymore. The other thing is I have a lot of confidence now. I don't doubt myself as often. So when somebody says something, I don't immediately think, "Oh, yeah, you're right. No, it is terrible," you know? I don't, I don't, I don't go there. I feel really confident in what I do. A… and the only reason I can say that is the amount of years I've been doing it, you know? I wouldn't…

31:24Jawad MirYeah

31:24Mark Mancina... I wouldn't say that during the Bad Boys 1 era at all. But, it's so funny. I met this guy the other day, and he said, "You did Bad Boys, right?" I said, "Yeah." And he goes, "You know," and he played me on his phone, and that's his, like, his ringtone, and I'm just going…... That was, like, 199… when was that movie? '95?

31:46Jawad Mir1995, I think. Let me just double-check.

31:49Mark MancinaWow. That's a long time ago, you know?

31:53Jawad MirYeah, '95. Yeah.

31:55Mark MancinaYeah.

31:56Jawad MirYeah. It…

31:58Mark MancinaSo, you know, I just thought of another film that I did that I thought had a really... Some moments were really good, but the movie didn't do well. It wasn't that good of a movie. But it was, c… called The Haunted Mansion.

32:12Jawad MirThat sounds so familiar

32:13Mark Mancina... It was a very big score. I mean, I had a choir and pipe organ and full orchestra, and I mean, it was big. But again, you know, because that movie didn't do that well, I wasn't known for that style of a movie, and, that's the way it works. Yeah.

32:31Jawad MirWas that the... Oh, it was in 2003. They're actually redoing it…

32:34Mark MancinaYeah

32:35Jawad Mir... Or redid it in 2023, too. The Haunted Mansion.

32:38Mark MancinaI don't know anything about that.

32:39Jawad MirDisney+. It's, it's called Haunted Mansion. I don't know if it's the same one or not.

32:43Mark MancinaMaybe it's a series, or maybe they re-showed it. I'm not sure.

32:47Jawad MirYeah, I think it's a series.

32:48Mark MancinaIt's the 20-year anniversary. I know that, so...

32:52Jawad MirOkay. And you know, it's so, it's so accurate about, I think it's not just music composers. It's people in creativ… creative business. The insecurity level is just, that self-doubt is always there.

33:07Mark MancinaYeah.

33:07Jawad MirRight? Because, and then what happens is that depending on who you're working for or working with, if you get someone to boost you while still trying to push you but respect you know, it takes you to another level. But e… especially in that beginning part of the career, if somebody's completely demoralizing you all the time, it can literally destroy your career, period. You might just think, "That's it. I'm done. I quit."

33:31Mark MancinaI can tell you a million times that I thought that way, and I thought, "I'm just not good at this. I mean, this is not what I should be doing. I'm not good at it. I mean, if I was good at it, the, I would, I, these people would be going, 'Yeah, these cues are great.' But they're nitpicking every note, like, 'Oh, the be… the, at the beginning it sounds too fast or too slow.'" And I'll, and I realize that, you know, these people, they're trying to make something good. They're not musicians usually, you know? They don't know. I mean, when you hear something for the v… I mean, I work on something for three weeks, and then I play it for them, and they hear it one time, and they have all these comments. And it's like, well, it wouldn't... I mean, I have to listen to something several times to get it.

34:09Jawad MirYeah.

34:09Mark MancinaBut that's the way it works. So you, like I said, I think, if you're confident in your work, and then somebody says, "Well, can you do this? Can you do that? Can you do this?" It's okay, you know. But if you're really feeling like you're getting pushed around, that's when you kinda have to stand up.

34:26Jawad MirIt's, I'll tell you one story. I mean, it's not, nothing to do with Hollywood. There was a very, in the Indian film industry, now, I don't wanna call it Bollywood because…

34:37Mark MancinaRight

34:37Jawad Mir... This particular, this particular director is, like, a true filmmaker and, but he's very kinda, like, outspoken, tough. He went to this composer who ruled, cinema from, his dad was a composer in the '50s and '60s, and he ruled cinema in the '70s and '80s, and then his kinda, like, downtime came. So this director went up to him, and he said, it was, like, a period piece, one of the first period piece made in India, and he said to him that, "I want you to compose this." And that composer, his name was RD Burman, he was so big at his time, but at that time in his life, he was so insecure, and he told the director, "I don't think I can do this." Like, this guy was, like, legendary, and the director went to him, "You know what? I know you can. I'm gonna come back in a week, figure it out." And that was his last score. He passed away after that, and that album made a killer amount of money, and it still plays today, and it's so timeless.

35:40Mark MancinaWow. Good for him.

35:41Jawad MirSo just h… you know, just one person putting f… believing in you, even though you were, like, a legend, it just makes a huge impact in…

35:50Mark MancinaYeah, it does

35:50Jawad Mir... Someone's life.

35:51Mark MancinaAnd like you said, I mean, the opposite's true, too, you know? You're working for someone, and they don't like anything you do. It, you really start to question if you know what you're doing, you know?

36:00Jawad MirYeah.

36:00Mark MancinaAnd, you gotta avoid that if you can, 'cause, yeah, that's them just getting…

36:06Jawad MirAre you doing any concerts or anything like that? Have you e… I don't know if I asked you that last time.

36:11Mark MancinaWe did. Yeah, we did one, I actually did one. It was great, 'cause, Alan Silvestri and Clint Eastwood and me, did a, they did a outdoor concert where they featured, part of Twister, part of the CBS… You know, Clint Eastwood stuff, and, Alan, some Back to the Future and some of Alan's stuff. And the three of us went together, and it was really great, 'cause, it was kinda surreal, you know? It was kind of like the, our local…... Outdoor theater, you know? And just kind of like, wow, you know, we did really well and we all live up here, you know? And…... It's like a very small little town and, it was fun. And so then, you know, we talked about doing all this stuff, concert wise, but, again, the truth is I'm just too busy. I don't have…

37:06Jawad MirYeah

37:06Mark Mancina... The time to put into it to do it right. I'd like to do it at some point. It would be really fun. I just, I have to really, I'd have to really devote myself to that as a project.

37:17Jawad MirWell, it's a totally different experience, and obviously a time, you know, I was just, my son discovered this. He's a huge fan of, Interstellar, and, like Christopher Nolan movies mostly, and Hans Zimmer…

37:34Mark MancinaYeah, sure

37:34Jawad Mir... And als… also your music, he listens to Speed. And there is a performance of the very famous track from Inception, Time. I'm sure y… I'm sure you're familiar with it. And Hans Zimmer performs it, and he comes out with a guitar when the, that note comes in, and it was just such a different vibe watching something that you watch in films or listen to it as a, you know, concert presentation. And I would love it, Mark, if y… you know, down the road you did more because I would love to be there too. I mean, it's just such a different thing, and…

38:10Mark MancinaYeah

38:10Jawad Mir... I really hope you get the time to do it because it's just a totally different, totally different beast that the audience is right in front of you and you're interacting with them.

38:17Mark MancinaYeah. That part of it I would really love. It's funny 'cause my career, I've gotten more busy in the last two or three years than I've been in 10 years. And so stuff that I had planned, which was a, some live performances and this and that, I've kinda had to put 'em on hold. Excuse me.

38:39Jawad MirThat's okay. Bless you.

38:40Mark MancinaSo, thank you. So, yeah, I mean, I am really interested in that. In fact, it's great because I've got, I'm working with Nick Lennie Smith. I don't know if you know Nick, but…

38:50Jawad MirOh, yep

38:52Mark Mancina... And he's conducting for me in a couple weeks, and, we haven't s… we haven't seen each other for a while, so it'll be really fun to see him. I think he worked…

39:00Jawad MirOh, I…

39:00Mark Mancina... On Bad Boys. I'm pretty sure he worked on Bad Boys.

39:02Jawad MirI know he worked on, The Rock

39:05Mark MancinaYeah, he did The Rock. Yeah.

39:06Jawad MirYeah.

39:08Mark MancinaYeah.

39:08Jawad MirAnd, yeah, I'm a huge fan of that soundtrack as well. I mean, there are some cr… amazing soundtracks

39:15Mark MancinaYeah

39:15Jawad Mir... Out there. And one thing I wanted to mention going back to the directors not, or producers listening to your, anybody's work, let's just say for your example, for yours, a lot of times music wears on you, but especially you have to watch it with the visuals to understand if it's having an impact on you without recognizing that there's actually a music track playing. You know what I mean?

39:40Mark MancinaYeah.

39:40Jawad MirAnd I think that's something that I have learned over the last, you know, decade, that you need to understand that sometimes some tracks like The Rock or the Spe… or Speed or Twister, like people will listen to it over and over again, but sometimes it has to be with the actual film in order for you to appreciate it and then listen to it independently.

40:03Mark MancinaI think that's true, for sure. Yep. Yep. I know Speed had that impact. I mean, when people, hear it, they remember it, but when they watch it and they hear it, they really remember it, you know, musically, so it's pretty cool.

40:17Jawad MirYeah. Great. Yeah, no, this has been great, Mark. Thank you so much again for your time. I know you've been really busy. I really appreciate you taking…

40:25Mark MancinaYeah, sorry, I've had to cancel it, a few times. We, yeah, and almost today I was just like, "Oh, no, I cannot cancel this again," so it worked out great, so.

40:32Jawad MirNo, it's all good. And, would love to chat to you again when you're a little bit less busy, talk about Moana and a bunch of other stuff maybe…

40:39Mark MancinaYeah, I'll have a lot, I'll have a lot more insight.

40:42Jawad MirYeah. Great.

40:43Mark MancinaAll right.

40:44Jawad MirThank you so much, Mark. You take care.

40:45Mark MancinaTake care.

40:46Jawad MirI hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for watching and listening. Don't forget to subscribe, like, share, and comment, and do come back for another episode. Until then, have a great day.