'Five Nights at Freddy's', Cinematographer, Lyn Moncrief

0:04Jawad MirHi, Lin. How are you doing?

0:06Lyn MoncriefGood. How's it going?

0:08Jawad MirDoing great, thank you.

0:10Lyn MoncriefCool.

0:10Jawad MirThanks for, tuning in.

0:12Lyn MoncriefYes, thanks for having me.

0:16Jawad MirIt's great to have you. Where are you based out of?

0:20Lyn MoncriefI'm in Los Angeles.

0:23Jawad MirGot it. Awesome. So it's too... No, hopefully not too early.

0:27Lyn MoncriefYeah, no. Not too late. Been up and about all day, yeah.

0:33Jawad MirFor sure. For sure. Awesome, man.

0:34Lyn MoncriefWhere, and where are you? Sorry.

0:36Jawad MirIn Toronto.

0:38Lyn MoncriefOh, cool.

0:39Jawad MirYeah.

0:39Lyn MoncriefI love Toronto.

0:41Jawad MirYeah, it's nice. It's a nice city. Been there for a long time, but, thinking of now just going somewhere else in Canada, at least that's the plan in the head. We'll see where it goes.

0:53Lyn MoncriefOkay.

0:53Jawad MirYeah. Well, f… you know, thank you so much for joining and, I, just to kinda give you some context, about the film that you worked on, Five Nights at Freddy's. I have been... So I have a son who's 13 years of age, and, I think probably since age of nine I've been hearing this Five Night at Freddy's thing, and, I had absolutely no idea that there was a actual movie in the works, and normally I'm pretty on top of films that are about to come out, so he had to tell me about this film. I'm like, "Really? They're making a film for kids?" Like, and I looked into it. It was, it was Blumhouse, right? And it, they don't really…

1:32Lyn MoncriefYeah

1:32Jawad Mir... Make necessarily that kids-friendly movie. So yeah, so that's how I know about it, and, truth be told, I had no intention of seeing it, but because my son…

1:45Lyn MoncriefNo

1:45Jawad Mir... You know, has been talking about it for years, so I was just kinda curious and wanted to check it out, and, I did. And, you know, it was, it was probably, it was entertaining. I mean, it wasn't something that I, would have volunteered to watch on my own, but because my son's interest…

2:03Lyn MoncriefYeah

2:03Jawad Mir... You know, saw it with him. And, it was well done. It was well done. The cinematography was great. And it had some, you know, pretty good backstory and stuff, so just wanted to let you know that first before we move on.

2:17Lyn MoncriefYeah. Yeah, no, it's interesting 'cause I have a nine-year-old, a daughter right now. And, so when, Emma, the director, gave me the material and the script and everything, I started, like, collecting all the research and books, and had the video game out, and immediately, 'cause she was unaware of it, and in… instantly she became super obsessed. So in a way, it, I think it really was helpful to have that age group while I was starting to prep this movie, just to see how that kind of perspective, childlike perspective of how gripping that content is, because it certainly was... I wasn't aware of the video games before either, when Emma approached me. And so, you know, I'm not a gamer. I don't come out of that, and she was basically like, "This is the biggest thing you've probably never heard of," is kind of what she said to me as she handed me the script.

3:26Lyn MoncriefAnd then of course once I went down that rabbit hole and I see how colossal the fans base is, and the canon and lore of everything, it was incredible. And it, actually I say just for the process of it, because I come out of kinda small indie movies…

3:44Lyn Moncrief... It was quite a departure for me in that regard to jump into something that already had such a foundation in some ways. And again, having a daughter seeing, like I've said this before, but she kinda became my un… unofficial research assistant, because every day…... She'd tell me a new fact. She wanted to watch all the YouTubers playing the video games, which I thought was interesting. She was, like, more scared to play the game, but more infatuated with watching other people play the games and their reactions to those…

4:22Jawad MirInteresting

4:22Lyn Moncrief... You know, to the jump scares and all the things. So it, I think it gave me just an insight of something that was different from my own generational perspective, and see how, it, for whatever reason, you know, it has, it kinda grips a certain age group, I think, of those that kinda grew up with it. And still, like, the kids that are now discovering it. So, yeah. I mean, it, then at that point, you know, it was like I'm very excited to be a part of it, and, yeah. I mean, it, I don't know what else to say. It's just…

5:04Jawad MirYeah, no

5:04Lyn Moncrief... I am very happy that the response has been good from fans, which is obviously what it's really geared…

5:09Jawad MirExactly

5:10Lyn Moncrief... For more so than maybe expansive audience. It's really just really went straight to the fan base, I think, and…

5:19Jawad MirYeah

5:19Lyn Moncrief... Obviously it's, it's, it's reaped the rewards of that, you know.

5:25Jawad MirYeah, no, it's tr… and it's true, and it's funny because when my son used to play it, I had no idea that it was an '80s thing, and I found that out when I was watching the film. Like, really? Like, I didn't even know that, so... And I'm not a gamer either, but I mean, you still know about the '80s stuff, you know, more or less in our age group, and the '90s stuff.

5:46Lyn MoncriefYeah.

5:47Jawad MirAnd what's interesting is even though the film came out on NBC's Peacock, their streaming service, simultaneously with theatrical, so 100% it was available online for people to, you know, download it illegally, it still made $130 million worldwide in three days. I mean, that is crazy.

6:11Lyn MoncriefIt's unbelievable. Yeah, I've been getting a lot of calls today just, you know, congratulations, all these things, and it, I definitely, for me it's, it's like I think illustrates how strong and passionate the fan base is. I th… I also went to a screening Saturday…

6:30Lyn Moncrief... With probably 70, 80% capacity, and, I just think there's something about the collective experience in which people wanted to have, see this movie, obviously. I was with, the majority seemed like fans. People were…

6:48Jawad MirYeah

6:48Lyn Moncrief... Had five, you know, FNAF stuff on, and, people clapping at certain, like, inside elements. And so I think there was... It really speaks to, because I, you know, obviously coming out of our era of pandemic and things, and feel like we've lost something of going to see cinema.

7:12Lyn MoncriefThere's something to be said about bringing people to have that collective experience, whether you're…

7:18Jawad MirSure

7:19Lyn Moncrief... Necessarily a fan of horror or FNAF or something, but just the movies that have done really well in the theaters the last few months, it's exciting to me, 'cause I saw, you know, I also saw Barbie, I saw Oppenheimer, I saw the, with big crowds, and

7:36Lyn Moncrief... It w… it was really kind of a nice, just that joy again to be with that collective. And on that note too, I think horror films in general, I think that's, I find that, with that genre in particular, a lot of people like to see them in a group setting because of that thrill…

7:57Jawad MirYeah

7:57Lyn Moncrief... Of the collective suspense and scares and

8:00Jawad MirYeah

8:02Lyn Moncrief... Yeah.

8:03Jawad MirYeah, no, that makes sense, and it's funny because I saw a press screening and it wasn't really, it was like, you know, 10, 15 people. But my son and my daughter, they're both going tomorrow night, which is Halloween. I think there's like 17 group that they're going together as a, like a fan, you know, like a fan base. Like, they actually, it was supposed to be three people or four people, and it just…

8:25Lyn MoncriefOh, yeah

8:26Jawad Mir... Exploded, you know, 17 people.

8:28Lyn MoncriefTotally.

8:28Jawad MirAnd yeah, and it's, it's, it's just, and obviously, you know, if you look at the, I don't know the exact budget of the film, but I'm sure it's extremely low in terms of retro, you know, in terms…

8:37Lyn MoncriefYeah, it was about 20 million. Yeah.

8:39Jawad MirYeah, so you look at the numbers, I mean, that's insane amount of profit in the, you know, three days essentially. Which is great, and I'm sure there will be a sequel the way at least the film ended. I mean, that's the…

8:52Lyn MoncriefI have no idea. I'm sure there are people talking about it.

8:54Jawad MirI'm sure there will be. 100, there will be, 100%.

8:57Lyn MoncriefYeah.

8:57Jawad MirThere's no doubt about that.

8:58Lyn MoncriefYeah.

8:59Jawad MirBut before we go any further on the film, I always like…

9:01Lyn MoncriefYeah

9:01Jawad Mir... To get an idea who I'm speaking to, what their story is like, what their journey, of filmmaking is. We all have our stories, how we became, you know, the filmmakers that we try, strive out to be, and we're still learning. So if you can start with that and what your path, to filmmaking has been, what inspired you?

9:22Lyn MoncriefYeah. I, you know, I grew up on the East Coast. I kinda moved around a bunch as a kid. But I kinda settled down in the Washington, DC area ... Kind of in my grade school and teen years. And, you know, my, both my parents, they love watching movies. I think that's where it really kinda started, because my mom in particular would always take me to see foreign films. There was a great theater, I was just talking about it with her yesterday

9:58Lyn Moncrief... The Key Theatre in Washington, DC. You know, very tiny little theater with three screens. You know, I saw, like, all of Jim Jarmusch movies there. I remember just how impactful those were. I remember seeing, you know, Au revoir les enfants, you know. So many great movies there. And, she also, th… there was a reprint of Lawrence of Arabia, and she took me out of school one day to go see that reprint. So I always kinda kid them that it's, it's their fault that I, you know, became, was interested in movies, because it just…

10:37Jawad MirRight

10:38Lyn Moncrief... Became this thing I wanted to do. I was also very passionate about still photography. So it kind of, once I g… went off to college, I went to a small liberal arts college in Ohio called Denison University.

10:54Jawad MirRight.

10:54Lyn MoncriefAnd they had a s… and they had a small little film program, and at the, that time, they were still shooting on film. So all our projects were on reversal black and white stocks that they developed there in, at the, at the college.

11:09Jawad MirYeah.

11:10Lyn MoncriefAnd, because I had, still photography background, I was one of the few that seemed to only be able to get good exposures on all the things that I filmed. And at that point, I, you know, a lot of my classmates were asking me to film what they shot, and I think that was kind of the turning point for me to start to be like, oh, wow, this is something I really enjoy doing. It kind of assimilates my passions at that point. And, but I had no clue, like, what do you, like, I'd ask people, like, "How do you do this thing?" You know, "How do I become a cinematographer?" So it was, it really just was a journey after that to, you know, I moved out to LA 'cause I thought that's what you had to do. Didn't like LA so much. I moved to Boston for a bit, started working film production there. And slowly over time, I had people ask me to shoot their films. And then, and I started to take it a little bit more seriously.

12:13Lyn MoncriefI met some folks who had gone to the American Film Institute that I was very impressed with. And I went ahead and applied, and I got into AFI… ... In cinema… in the cinematography program there, which has a fantastic alumni li… lineage of cinematographers. You know, Robert Elswit…

12:32Jawad MirRight

12:32Lyn Moncrief... And Richardson…

12:33Jawad MirYeah

12:33Lyn Moncrief... And Wallet. You know, it goes on and on. And, I thought, "Well, if I go here, maybe if I drink the water of the well of AFI, you know, it's gonna like, I'm gonna be like one of those." So I think from there, at least I could start to say, "Hey, I'm a cinematographer. This is my path." And I've remained in Los Angeles since, and it's really just been that, you know, slow workup of working in the film industry. Really, like I said, working primarily in indie movies.

13:07Jawad MirRight.

13:07Lyn MoncriefAnd then out of indie movies are often horror movies. So I think just through a collection of doing several indie movies, I was doing horror movies along the way. It wasn't necessarily something I sought out. And I think over time I've really appreciated the genre, because it wasn't a genre I was like, "Oh, I wanna be a horror film…

13:31Jawad MirYeah

13:31Lyn Moncrief... Cinematographer." You know, I want to make Rashomon by Kurosawa. You know? It's like, you know, whatever, Raging Bull by, you know, Scorsese. Like, you know, in your mind you're thinking, "Those are the movies I want to be part of." But over time I've really come to appreciate just the craft of making a horror movie, of that genre. It kind of... And I think in genre in general of how you can manipulate genre and it can be, speak to a higher elements of maybe things are going on in society that's not just the f… you know, the f… the fun, whatever the aspect of the genre. But, and it can be that too. And so I would say over the last five or six years, I've pretty much solidly done a lot of horror movies.

14:25Jawad MirYeah, I noticed that.

14:25Lyn MoncriefAnd from that time, yeah. You know, I met Emma. We did a small movie called The Wind, which actually played at the Toronto

14:37Jawad MirOh, okay

14:37Lyn Moncrief... It played at T… it played at TIFF, which was fantastic. I came and saw that. And it's just now starting to, you know, kind of open up for me a little bit. And luckily, you know, I've done three other movies with her, and she asked me to jump on this one. So that's kind of my journey through it. You know, it's... I was interestingly, I, you know, when I was starting out, a lot of people, you know, you… the pathway to cinematography or any department head, you know, oftentimes it's like, oh, you work in a camera crew, you're an AC, and do all these things. And I had actually, met Andy Harris, who's, Roger Deakins' first AC.

15:25Lyn MoncriefAnd he was the one who encouraged me, 'cause I was trying to be in the camera department. I started out as a l… a camera loader when I was working in LA and trying to work up my, the ranks. And he very bluntly told me, and I was in my 20s, he was like, "You wanna be a cinematographer, you should just do it. You don't, you don't have any commitments now. You don't have a family. You don't have all these things. Don't become successful as the AC."

15:50Jawad MirYeah.

15:50Lyn Moncrief"20 years later you're gonna be like, well, now you have a family and all these things." He's like, "Pay your dues as the cinematographer." And I took that to heart. So you know, I was doing all these very no budget projects along the way, and that was the path I decided for myself. And, now I'm…

16:08Jawad MirFantastic

16:09Lyn Moncrief... Here, you know? Yeah.

16:11Jawad MirYeah. It's, it's so interesting in life, you know, you always... There's just so many different ways now. I mean, even 10 years ago, 20 years ago, but even now, there's like 20 different ways to get to where you wanna get to, right? You know, if you look back 20 years ago, you know, if you wanna be a director, like, you can either go through, you know, applying for like, a production manager job or a line producer or, you know, and then work your way up. Or then you write your own script and hope that somebody would, you know, finance it, get to festival, somebody might see it, and so on and so forth. So it's j… interesting like how all, a lot of people's journeys are so different, but everybody thinks, you know, when they see a movie and someone's name is on it, whatever, whoever they are, editor, director, cinematographer, production designer, costume designer, that, oh, they just made it there. It's like there's so much of sacrifice, so much of, hardships, rejections, failures, like way more than anybody can imagine to be able to get there.

17:17Jawad MirAnd that's just, and that's what makes people stronger, you know, each time that they progress in their life, in film career.

17:25Lyn MoncriefFor sure. I mean, I've definitely had, in my career, many peaks and valleys. You know?

17:31Jawad MirYeah.

17:31Lyn MoncriefAnd you have those moments of question, you know, where I'm at. I, you know, I remember I was fortunate when I was a student at AFI, I remember Wally Pfister coming to visit our class and, him talking about, him thinking about quitting the business, you know. And this was, you know, and then, you know, because he wasn't going really anywhere. He wasn't really getting jobs. He was having to do s… he had shot some things and, was having to do these kind of remedial jobs. And then before you know it, like a week later, Christopher Nolan calls him up and said, you know, "Well, you did this movie called Memento." you know, and he was doing like the Roger Corman, very low budget kind of…

18:21Jawad MirYeah

18:21Lyn Moncrief... Thing. And, but he had done this like small Sundance movie that, Nolan and Saul. And I, and I just think that I often think about that kind of moment, 'cause you, I think when you are a creative and you work in an industry that you're having to freelance, you're gonna have a lot of those doubt, especially now, and y… you're, y… it's, like you said, you can have those rejections and failures, and I've, I've always tried to be optimistic as best I can and say, "Hey, just keep moving forward."

18:57Jawad MirThat's it.

18:57Lyn MoncriefEven if it's, do… doesn't great now, let's see, just keep pushing forward and see how much further you can get, you know?

19:06Jawad MirYeah.

19:06Lyn MoncriefAnd try to, come with terms with those voices. I j… I try not to put 'em out, but…

19:15Jawad MirYeah

19:15Lyn Moncrief... And, you know, for me, even though I've fallen in the genre a lot of times, I think the things I j… enjoy most are almost working, more working with a director more than maybe what the project is, because the process itself is enjoyable.

19:34Jawad MirSure.

19:35Lyn MoncriefSo, like, I've, I've been trying to seek out those directors that, you know, you have, that push each other and you have a good rapport with. And…

19:45Jawad MirYeah

19:45Lyn Moncrief... Luckily it's worked that way with Emma and myself and, you know, and so that's the real joy of being on set. But yeah, it is, it's, I often tell, you know, young people when I do talk to them and they have interest in doing it, that, you know, it is a long game for most of us. I mean, there's certainly exceptions and…

20:07Jawad MirYeah

20:07Lyn Moncrief... You can only react to what's put in front of you and try to make the best of that you can. But it is that cliche adage, the marathon and not the sprint, and it very much so…

20:21Jawad MirExactly

20:21Lyn Moncrief... Is that, yeah.

20:22Jawad MirYeah. The sprint comes with a lot of consequences that you may not be ready to deal with at the time that you have it.

20:30Lyn MoncriefYeah.

20:30Jawad MirYou know, with the marathon, you mature and you know how to take decisions and fall back. But it's, it's, it's, you know, going back to what you said, one thing that kinda stuck out, that when you're, that s… that doubt in your head, sometimes it's a good thing as long as you can use it to motivate yourself. But, you know, obviously if you feel, if you dive too much into it, then it's, you know, a recipe for disaster. But one thing that I have always found for myself is that when that doubt does kick in, w… not to be delusional or anything, one thing that sort of helps me move forward is that I try, I look at where I am now and I look at where I was 20 years ago, 15 years ago, 10 years ago, 5 years ago, and then you're like, "Holy crap." You know?

21:19Lyn MoncriefYeah.

21:19Jawad MirThat really, like, if, a… and if that happened, then what's the next 10, 15, 20 years are gonna be, right? So, at…

21:25Lyn MoncriefTotally

21:25Jawad Mir... You just, you just have to have that kind of approach and looking in chunks, where have you been and where are you right now?

21:33Lyn MoncriefYeah. Yeah, no, I, it's, I, absolutely. I think when I first, you know, when I was younger and I first got out of AFI and school, and, i… i… the school atmosphere was a little bit of a competitive atmosphere. So you're thinking, "Oh, what is that? That guy, person got a job and I didn't, and they're doing this," and it's ex… and you start worrying about what other people's successes. And I think I had to, at some point, change that mindset, that I want everyone to be successful. I'm happy for everyone's success.

22:06Jawad MirRight.

22:06Lyn MoncriefAnd I, and really, like, push out any of those kind of initial jealousies or anything like that, because those were not productive, and I, and I just had to change that mindset. Like, I'm very ha… like, I want us all to be successful. And then, yeah, just worry about my own creative journey and craft. Really, just each time is a new opportunity to get better at the craft, you know? I've…

22:32Jawad MirYeah

22:33Lyn Moncrief... I want, I, you know, you have these people, you, obviously there's a… amazing movies, and I try to revisit ones that I'm still blown away by, and y… it's still something to aspire to and try to be, to better the craft of what I do. And there's still so much to learn and to do, and that's exciting.

22:54Jawad MirSo true.

22:54Lyn MoncriefYou know? Yeah. You know.

22:55Jawad MirIt, that's so true. It's always about learning more and more, and making mistakes. And, you know, I, kinda jumping onto the reason we're talking, Five Night at Freddy's, working with Emma, so you've worked with her before, as you mentioned. What is that relationship like? And then, and I, a… and you mentioned this, and I completely agree with you, like when I work with my cinematographer, like I want him to push me, and I want, he wants me to push him. And it's not like even if you would reject the idea or disagree with it's just making each other vision better and at the end of the day, making the grand scheme of things, making the film better. So what's that like working with Emma?

23:38Lyn MoncriefI think, it's the first director I've worked with on this many times. So I would say the biggest thing is just trust. Like, we both have each other's backs in any kinda creative sense. I don't think that there's, because I, you know, when you're f… at least for me, when I'm first working with a director, you have a vision, you present that vision, and sometimes you might hold back or this or that, or, you know, it might not be a conscious thing.

24:18Jawad MirRight.

24:18Lyn MoncriefBut you're still kind of navigating, like, who is this person? What's their likes or dislikes? And I think once we… Had gone through a few and understood our own creative process of how we each work, it allowed us to... It freed us for just to be able to have, I think, honest conversations, about what we thought we didn't work or not work, and not feel without the ego involved…

24:51Jawad MirRight

24:51Lyn Moncrief... So to speak. And like, and to your point of like i… really try to push ourselves visually, like how can we make this better? You know, what are the opportunities here, of things that we haven't done or we want to try? And just be a little bit playful or build more experimental, which, you know, it's possible that you hold yourself back a little bit sometimes. And, I think also just the onset, on-set dynamic…

25:24Lyn Moncrief... Which I think folks can take for granted in terms of how is it, you know, w… with the time management, how you're figuring out shit, 'cause inevitably there's gonna be curve balls…

25:39Jawad MirSure

25:40Lyn Moncrief... And things that aren't considered, or you don't wanna be too rigid with your pre-production that you can't see the forest behi… you know, beyond the trees. And that you... We're both trying to make each other the best we can given the circumstances you're given. And, I just think that we both have come to appreciate that partnership and the kind of visual collaboration. And it's been fun. Like, every time we've done the pre-production, it's just, because she really likes to break things down a certain way, we try to understand what is the visual vocabulary of this movie, and she likes to have certain rule sets, and she likes to do the camera tests, and to be involved in those pretty intimately in terms of like really understanding what lenses and how we're doing it, and... So it begins very early on in pre-production.

26:40Lyn MoncriefAnd for us, we get very excited when we have that time to do it, you know? So it's…

26:47Jawad MirLovely

26:47Lyn Moncrief... It's just, I... Each time it's just grown and grown, and I think even this experience was, you know, we've come out in a way we didn't expect at the other end of it. You know? Because it certainly was... You're taking on aesthetic that it is kind of unconventional in a way, even with a, like a video game IP, that there's a bit of uncertainty, like are you really doing it the way that we should be doing it? And so fortunately we came out a very good…

27:24Jawad MirYeah

27:24Lyn Moncrief... First weekend, so you're like, "Oh, that's..." You know, we're very excited. We're texting all the time, you know, about like, oh, it's just... It, we're very excited. So, the relationship has grown. I hope that it continues. And I just, yeah, it's just the... We're both so open to just want to elevate ourselves each time we're out, you know? So.

27:48Jawad MirAm… amazing.

27:50Lyn MoncriefYeah

27:50Jawad Mir... What was, I'm sure there were many, but if there was one to be s… because that's just the nature of business. If there was one moment that stands out where you guys had in pre-production all this plan, that this is how you're gonna tackle this scene or this moment, and with a lot of things in production, m… most of the time things don't go as planned. There's always something that pops up, a hiccup, and you have to sort of deviate and figure out a way around the circle, right? How…

28:20Lyn MoncriefYeah

28:21Jawad Mir... Was there, was there any moment like that? And if you can describe what scene or moment and how you overcame it on the set.

28:29Lyn MoncriefI think, I'm trying to think. The, I think the biggest, to me, I think the hardest part for me overall just, and I think we had a plan going in, and we certainly shot a certain way that adhered to the plan, but was always this question mark to me was the dream sequence stuff, the flashback dream sequence.

28:53Lyn Moncrief'Cause also, like one of the earliest things we shot in the movie, and w… it was, it was already difficult trying to find the location, 'cause we s… we shot in New Orleans, and we didn't want it to look like New Orleans. You know, you want it to look just generic America, can't quite... And so there are not a lot of those kind of trees in New Orleans, a lot more like mossy kind of…

29:17Jawad MirRight

29:17Lyn Moncrief... Swampy stuff. So it was a bit of a tr… you know, it took us a while to find a pl… a location that worked. And then on top of that, it started raining on us. It became a mud pit. You know, we only had a short amount of time there. And I think even in pre-production, I think there was, you know, it was a lot of, a l… a lot of discussion is like how do you handle dream sequence, right? 'Cause you could go... I mean, it was very important that Emma wanted like a very grounded vibe through this.

29:57Lyn MoncriefEven though y… you're dealing with this fantastical idea, but she also didn't wanna be like so heavy-handed in the look, as though we're trying to, compensate for something or go way over. And so dream sequences, it becomes that thing or flashbacks, you're like, you know, how are you gonna treat this? You're gonna go black and white, or you're gonna do some crazy color tone. You're gonna do... You know, what are you gonna do here? And so we went, in pre-production we went through a lot of different kind of brainstorm iterations and references to kind of decide. And I think we both kinda landed as like the simpler, the better. It probably is gonna be the better way… But let's just make our decisions more about lens choices and maybe camera movement on the initials just to, like, have some contrast of tone.

30:54Jawad MirSure.

30:55Lyn MoncriefBut then when you get there, at least for me as a cinematographer, I was freaking out because we had planned all the dreams to be sunny. There was only gonna be one sunny day and all rainy days. So I was like, "Well, we need to try to reschedule so we get everything that's the beginning." Like, try to use it to our advantage, right? Like, the very idealistic…

31:19Lyn Moncrief... Version right in the beginning's gonna be sunny, s… strong sun, and then as you introduce these kind of ghost kids and horror, it'll be conveniently the sun is gone and the horror... So we had to pivot in that way, 'cause it wasn't scheduled in a way that fit that, because we just, we assumed it's gonna be consistency of location. And it did rain on us, and you're, you're, you can't move quickly, even with a big crew.

31:50Jawad MirYeah.

31:51Lyn MoncriefAnd you're trying to hide all the trucks, and you're trying to... So I think, I, you know, the pivot from there, other than, you know, rescheduling, you know, we probably ended up fall back into simplify a lot of our camera moves in some ways, but still kind of adhering to our broad stroke. Like, we wanted there would be a lot of movement in the beginning, and, as ghost kids come, it becomes a more controlled element…

32:23Lyn Moncrief... 'cause they're in control of the…

32:25Jawad MirSure

32:26Lyn Moncrief... The emotional space. So that was the thing, but, you know, you choose one location in pre-production, it's like, well, it's muddy over there. You can't shoot over there. We have to do it here. I see trucks now. It's gonna take 30 minutes to move those trucks. You know, it's, it's those kind of things. And so I found that to be the most difficult, because though still maybe a bigger budget for some, for a small movie, it's still a small movie. You couldn't just throw money at the situation and say, "Well, let's add a day for more dream stuff." It just…

32:58Jawad MirYeah

32:58Lyn Moncrief... You're in that controlled element. So I don't know if that totally answers…

33:03Jawad MirNo, it does

33:03Lyn Moncrief... The question. It's not, like, the sexy like pivot.

33:07Jawad MirNo.

33:07Lyn MoncriefBut for me as a cine… but yeah.

33:09Jawad MirIt's, it's, it's, it is, because sometimes I find setbacks actually are good at the end, because like you talked about the movements wh… you still adhere to the, you know, the plan that you had. But sometimes, for me, the dream sequence, like in the beginning when it happened a couple of times, it w… it just kinda, at least the p… especially the first time, it threw me off. I'm like, "What's going on?" Right? And then it obviously you become sort of, you figure it out as it happens over and over again. But to me, the fact that now that you mention it, not that I noticed at the time, i… it wasn't that much of a movement of anything except for the car running, you know, driving away and stuff.

33:51Lyn MoncriefYeah.

33:51Jawad MirAnd that works for me. Like I just kind of, because you're in that dream sequence, and everybody will differ… interpret it differently, y… you're, you're just still. You know, you're, you're looking at things around you. You're not necessarily having that point of view if walking over to someone. So it worked for me, and I think sometimes those things are good, to have and those things are part of the filmmaking. Like, there's almost never a day when everything goes 100% the way you planned it.

34:20Lyn MoncriefYeah.

34:20Jawad MirLike, it just doesn't happen. So yeah, and what cameras did you guys... W… were you guys using Red? And, also what lenses did you guys use?

34:31Lyn MoncriefYeah. We did a bunch of tests, different camera systems, different lenses. The other movies I had done, and what Emma loves normally is anamorphic. She just r… really loves anamorphic, like vintage anamorphic.

34:47Jawad MirYeah.

34:47Lyn MoncriefAnd so do I.

34:49Jawad MirYeah.

34:49Lyn MoncriefBut it became an early discussion of that. We knew that we're gonna, we're gonna have these animatronics, we're gonna have a kid in a scene, this disparity of height. There's gonna be moments where maybe I see everybody in one shot. And so we started talking about wider aspect ratios, you know, whether it's gonna be like a 185 or 2:1, which is what we ended up doing.

35:14Jawad MirRight.

35:14Lyn MoncriefSo then it started to become working down from that. And, 'cause I was concerned initially to have such a narrow, aspect that there was gonna be wants and needs on set to do certain framings, and we were gonna have to go, like, 30 feet back to do it or not get, you know, showcase certain things that I knew that were wanting to be showcased with these animatronics and a child. So she really lo… as we were, started to do it, went, looked at Arri and Sony, primarily. And we decided, 'cause I'd done all the other movies with her on Alexa Minis.

36:01Lyn MoncriefWe went to Arri, and we looked at the 65. She was interested in looking at the Alexa 65. I said, "Let's do it. We'll look at the LF. We'll look at the 65." We went, we took the cameras to, the Jim Henson Creature Shop, assortment of lenses that they gave us, and we found what she really likes is, like, wide and close.

36:30Lyn MoncriefShe's very much that kind of director, where she likes to just be wide focal length, close to subject. And just when you shoot on that large format like that, and you go wide, you just, you... Often, unless you go really wide, but a nice general wide lens that you would maybe pick for an anamorphic, like a 50… doesn't have the distortion characteristics. And so we both kinda responded to th… to that, and as I looked at the different lens systems they had there, the DNAs were, really, like we fell in love with them immediately because depending on what lenses you use, there are some that are just have that kinda anamorphic feeling.

37:14Jawad MirRight.

37:14Lyn MoncriefThey flare very easily if you want to. There's just, if you shoot 'em wide open or close to wide open, they can be very, eh, kinda more extreme in their characteristics, the falloff. So we ended up doing, Alexa 65 which is a completely new territory for me. It took me a minute to kinda wrap my head around because I was, I'm very much from like a Super 35 format kind of DP.

37:45Lyn MoncriefAnd I, and I've done some stuff on LF, but I still…

37:48Jawad MirOkay

37:48Lyn Moncrief... I wasn't really like a big format kinda like just conceptually. So but I didn't want the format to be too distracting. Like I didn't want, 'cause I know you can really overuse that 65 because of the falloff or it can be extreme.

38:05Jawad MirRight.

38:06Lyn MoncriefSo we did a bunch of tests and just kind of, there are sets in those lenses that are very, you definitely need to test them 'cause they don't all match. It's not like a, they have interesting, each one has its own vibe. And so, you know, we picked out a set we liked. We had some that we were, had very funky characteristics that we knew that we're gonna use for only s… very specific reasons or start to build it later into the movie.

38:36Lyn MoncriefAnd, so we did that. We did two cameras. Had a and B camera, and then I did do a m… a mini LF for the Steadicam, just because the 65 was so heavy that it just wasn't gonna be practical, I think.

38:50Jawad MirYeah.

38:51Lyn MoncriefYeah. And so it was…

38:53Jawad MirRight

38:53Lyn Moncrief... Pretty much all DNAs. I had no zooms or anything. A couple specialty lenses here and there. I did some probe lens work on all the sign, like all those close-ups of the…

39:05Jawad MirYeah

39:05Lyn Moncrief... Ready sign are all probe stuff. But pretty much really kept only two or three lenses for the most part. Really like in that 50 to 60 mil range was probably our pocket of focal lengths.

39:19Jawad MirYeah.

39:20Lyn MoncriefYeah.

39:21Jawad MirDo you, do you normally use Sony Venice?

39:24Lyn MoncriefI d… I had done prior to this, I had done my two movies prior to this were on Sony Venice, and I was really impressed with them. So I initially I was thinking I wanted to test that as well.

39:42Jawad MirYeah

39:42Lyn Moncrief... And, at the time when we tested, there weren't really any Venice 2s out. So I don't know if that would've made a difference or not, but

39:54Jawad MirYeah

39:54Lyn Moncrief... She, I think it just, yeah, it just she, you know, when we started doing and she saw everything where it was, and it's possible also just having done a lot of Alexa with her before, I think it was just kind of a, she had an immediate response to just the t… that texture. And there is a difference I think between Sony and Arri in terms of that, I don't know if you wanna call it color science, but it, there is a slight different. But…

40:23Jawad MirYeah

40:23Lyn Moncrief... I have loved the Venice, like it, as well. It just, it wasn't for this project, you know?

40:29Jawad MirYeah. No, I was just, I was just curious because you mentioned Sony 'cause we use Sony, for our stuff, and Venice we've never used, but they announced Burano. I don't know if you've, looked into that.

40:41Lyn MoncriefOh, yeah.

40:43Jawad MirYeah, we…

40:43Lyn MoncriefIt looks very interesting. Yeah

40:44Jawad Mir... Yeah, w… our production house ordered, two of them, so we're excited to see them in spring. And it would be, it would be, I think it would start, a lot of studios and streaming platforms are gonna start utilizing that, at least from what I have read and, the footage that…

41:00Lyn MoncriefYeah

41:00Jawad Mir... Sort of come out and stuff. So it'd be fascinating and k… cool.

41:05Lyn MoncriefYeah, I think it's, I mean, it certainly was a challenge 'cause we, it's, it's interesting, everything's starting to get more geared to lighter and lighter systems. Like, if you wanted to get a, you know, so, it's so easy now to get like a, stabilized head or anything like that's a lightweight system 'cause everything is condensing down.

41:22Jawad MirYep.

41:23Lyn MoncriefBut even though we had the LF, she really wanted like everything to be a 65 because it did make a difference. When you put things side by side, you did the LF, you could, like if we're gonna shoot 65, let's shoot 65. So there was, you know, kind of a logistical challenge I think. You know, one that we worked out, but just like…

41:42Jawad MirYeah

41:42Lyn Moncrief... It's, it's certainly different than working with lighter systems. But we've also become really spoiled because it's still lighter than if we were shooting on film or something, you know, like a film camera.

41:55Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

41:56Lyn MoncriefYeah.

41:57Jawad MirI mean, don't you remember the DSLR revolution 13 years ago when we first

42:03Lyn MoncriefTotally.

42:03Jawad MirYeah.

42:03Lyn MoncriefAnd Sony I always thought was like, and I did movies like, you know, when the Canons first came out, the 5D and 7D, I…

42:10Jawad Mir5D Mark II. Yeah

42:11Lyn Moncrief... Yeah, I did these like no budget movies with them, you know? I was definitely part of that. I, you know, when Reds came out, I, like I have nothing but to thank like the revolutions of digital because it gave me…

42:27Jawad MirYeah

42:27Lyn Moncrief... A lot more work, for sure.

42:30Jawad MirYeah, and it's interesting. I mean, I'm kinda going off topic or just, but being tech nerdy. Before 5D Canon, you probably have used Canon XH A1, the camcorder they had.

42:41Lyn MoncriefYes. Yeah.

42:43Jawad MirSo just before that, there used to be 35 millimeter adapters by companies like Cinevate, and I think it was Letus?

42:51Lyn MoncriefLetus. Letus, yeah.

42:52Jawad MirLe… Letus or Letus, whichever.

42:54Lyn MoncriefLetus, yeah.

42:55Jawad MirYeah. And then that sort of changed things, and then the 5D happened and…

43:00Lyn MoncriefTotally

43:00Jawad Mir... How everything just completely turned around, on its head.

43:04Lyn MoncriefOh, it was crazy. I mean, it was like an overnight thing. Now I remember the Letus things 'cause I'd always forget to turn the, It had a spinning shutter, if you remember.

43:14Jawad MirYeah.

43:14Lyn MoncriefSo if you didn't turn it on, you would just be filming the back glass, and you'd, you'd have all this dust on it and, but yeah. I mean, even when I was at AFI, everyone was trying to get those adapters…

43:26Jawad MirOh, yeah

43:26Lyn Moncrief... So you'd make it, make everything look as filmic as possible, you know?

43:30Jawad MirYeah.

43:30Lyn MoncriefAnd, we've come a long way in the last 20 years. I mean, it's, it's, it's crazy.

43:37Jawad MirIt is.

43:38Lyn MoncriefYeah

43:38Jawad Mir... I didn't realize until after I saw the film, that the, it, Jim Henson's Creature Workshop was involved. I mean, that…

43:51Lyn MoncriefYeah

43:52Jawad Mir... That, you know, working on set with those creatures or, you know, those, animatronics or robots, what was that experience like? You know, not just from a DP standpoint, but just being there in that physical space. Because, I mean, they are the size that you see them in the film.

44:12Lyn MoncriefThey are. And, I mean, it was very cool. I think just also because I had that relationship with Emma, I was brought on very early just to kind of be a fly on the wall, to sit in on… ... A lot of meetings when she would go over to Jim Henson, and they would just show her concept work, and I could just kind of be there. So I was very fortunate to just see a bit of that bi… y… you know, behind the curtain magic of just their process of con… concept and modeling and seeing what works, and fabrics, and you know, there's a bit of, trial and error on things because, from a functional standpoint, like you look at something like Foxy, maybe wouldn't normally work just because the physics of how it was designed for the game. So it was interesting to just to see them, you know, how are we gonna puppeteer this, and you know, trying to talk it through. I, it was... And in that regard it's also behind the scenes just to see how many crafts people…

45:23Jawad MirYeah

45:23Lyn Moncrief... From seamstress to model design to the, like ev… all these very, they have a whole, you know, shop that's, that's, enginee… you know, machining things and, the first, every time we'd go in there'd be something new, and they'd have moving eyes or this or that, and you'd just each time you're just like, "Wow, this is amazing." Y… you know, you feel like a kid.

45:47Jawad MirYeah.

45:47Lyn MoncriefAnd well, and to kind of bring back the early cinema days of, you know, growing up as a kid, when I started going in it was the 40th anniversary of, Dark Crystal, the movie. And so they were doing some stuff here in LA with like, so they had a lot of the original costumes and the puppets and the creatures from that movie from 40 years ago, and I remember seeing that as a kid in the theater.

46:14Jawad MirYeah.

46:14Lyn MoncriefSo and just how my mind was blown seeing that. So it was, it was just this, it was a truly like make believe scenario to be able to work with a company that's what they do, they make believe.

46:28Jawad MirYeah.

46:28Lyn MoncriefI think the interesting thing, just even from our initial tests of just like, 'cause it's not just like a one-stop shop of things. There's, you know, there's a full animatronic. There's some, s… some with, you know, people with stunt suits, but then maybe the arms and head are animatronic but there's a person in there. There's, there's different configuration of arms, different configuration of heads depending on what shot you're doing. Stunt ver… you know, so there wasn't just like a one thing. It was…

47:00Jawad MirYeah

47:01Lyn Moncrief... Based on, based on where you're gonna shoot and how you do it. And that also had to be figured out, you know, by so m… a team of people, plus the AD staff, plus the how we're gonna shoot it so we'd be time efficient on set. And plus, you know, Emma and I conceived some stuff, and with storyboard, and they would have to pre-visit, you know, and show Emma and work through, you know, when there were people, puppeteer, stunt people in the suits that they were doing. The movements that Emma thought looked right for an animatronic movement if it wasn't full animatronic. So it, I think it's just maybe, you know, behind the scenes there's just a massive team of people. And then when you get to something like moving Foxy around, if Foxy has to walk, you've got additional puppeteers and, you know, maybe in the green suits with poles that go out from their limbs to do certain things that you know you're gonna kind of erase later.

48:04Jawad MirYeah.

48:04Lyn MoncriefBut just the physicality was really cool to have on set, because it makes it easier to light.

48:14Jawad MirYeah.

48:15Lyn MoncriefMakes it easier to frame. Do all those things that, I mean, I did have some cutouts that I could sometimes throw if I, if I couldn't have the puppeteers. But it was, I think everybody learned a lot, and I think it was interesting I think for Jim Henson because it was a little bit of a kind of diversion of what they were kind of known for. You know, they're not…

48:42Lyn Moncrief... And everyone was so excited I think in that workshop, 'cause a lot of them were really big fans already. And I just think, it was just cool every day that I was on set with them, 'cause they just were…

48:55Jawad MirI bet

48:56Lyn Moncrief... Ready to do something fun. They really cared about the work they did. They were very passionate. So, I mean, hopefully it comes through on screen that there's the kind of authenticity that they wanted to keep from the game. I, you know, I think the challenges are often about, like, how do I get a light around a puppeteer, or how can I sneak them in just off camera with monitors that they can see? Because, you know, they have eye movements and other movements, and it's not just one person, but you might have someone…

49:35Jawad MirYeah

49:35Lyn Moncrief... Just on the eyes and someone on the ears. And so it... I never really knew how many people for everything, but I think it was a lot of chess pieces that have to fall in place, and…

49:48Jawad Mir100%.

49:49Lyn MoncriefA… again, it's maybe not the sexiest thing to talk about, but…

49:53Jawad MirNo, this is good

49:54Lyn Moncrief... Time management. Yeah.

49:55Jawad MirYeah.

49:55Lyn MoncriefBut I mean, just, like, from a time management standpoint, in terms of I w… I was very happy with how we, with the AD staff figuring out, with our AD figuring out, you know, with myself, with the Jim Henson team, like, how do you structure your day? How do you work through these things? And the first days are always a little tough, and then each day you get more and more efficient. And…

50:22Jawad MirYeah

50:22Lyn Moncrief... You know, they can only have the suits on for so long, 'cause, you know, those animatronic heads weigh, I don't know how much, but they weighed, they were, like, 40 pound heads or whatever. You can't... There's time limitations for things. And, you know, so it was a dance of all that coordination so we can make our day, you know? And again, not the sexiest thing to talk about, but it's like, I was very happy that we were successful in that regard to manage those things, 'cause they weren't always easy.

50:57Jawad MirRight

50:58Lyn Moncrief... And there were just, in addition, like, the stunt team as well, because they were setting up certain rigs and doing certain elements, and the, there were kind of puppeteer/stunt people in those suits. So there was a stunt team that was very involved in that as well. So it was just i… interesting to see these just teams of people in this collective idea working together to do it. I... You know, we learned a ton on this, so, certainly if we do a next one, I know we'll be a lot more knowledgeable.

51:30Jawad MirYeah.

51:30Lyn Moncrief'Cause by the end, you're like, "Oh yeah, this is how we should be doing it." But it, you know, it takes you those several weeks of shooting to start to understand…

51:38Jawad MirYeah

51:38Lyn Moncrief... That particular... Like, how does everybody work together for a common goal and vision? And, you know, yeah.

51:45Jawad MirFor s… for sure. I mean, Jim Henson, I never watched Dark Crystal as a kid, I watched Labyrinth, with Jen…

51:52Lyn MoncriefOh, yes

51:53Jawad Mir... With Jennifer Connelly. I mean, you look at it, even, like, at that time, obviously as a kid you just think it's really good, you know? It's a really good story. But you look at it now, and you look at how it was done in the '80s, and how great the puppeteer work was, I mean, it just looks, no matter how many times you watch that film, it looks flawlessly real characters. If this, you know, dog, this mou… fox, this man came to life.

52:23Lyn MoncriefYeah

52:23Jawad Mir... A… and that's one thing in this film which is interesting. You mentioned that Jim Henson's Creature Workshop is not known for that. That's something that Stan Winston Studios used to do quite really well. I don't know if... I'm sure…

52:36Lyn MoncriefYeah

52:36Jawad Mir... They still do, but Stan Winston passed away. But it was, I genuinely, you know, I, we, everybody talks about this in the recent last few years with practicality on camera, like shooting stuff in camera as opposed to adding it in post, you know, whether it's effects, whether it's fixing an editing glitch or whatever it is, a camera glitch, and it just, this, that, not even just for you, but that physical space between the characters, it just makes it far more intense. And I mean, imagine, I'm willing to bet you if this film was made 10 years ago, it would've been all visual effects, CGI, you know, creatures.

53:17Lyn MoncriefYeah.

53:17Jawad MirI, bec… but it's good that this was the way it should've been, and it looks, and that's the only way it makes it look real. You know?

53:25Lyn MoncriefYeah.

53:25Jawad MirThat's, that's the whole movie. So it really enjoyed the thrill parts of it, the cinematography, and the animatronics, obviously, that made the film what it is at a very high level.

53:40Lyn MoncriefFor sure. And I think it's interesting that they're on board because of the m… movie, like Labyrinth or something you mentioned, there where it's, there is this kind of nostalgic element already to the movie, right? 'Cause you're, it's a nod to '80s, '90s, '80s kind of vibe. And, you know, much of some of the stuff that Emma and I talked about, just of our own references, were more of those kind of '80s movies.

54:05Jawad MirSure.

54:05Lyn MoncriefAnd we didn't wanna get too heavy in this, like, overhe… heavy, like, nostalgic or kind of vibe.

54:12Jawad MirAnd you didn't. Yeah, you didn't.

54:14Lyn MoncriefYeah. But we wanted to still, like, a movie that would be made in the '80s, that kind of, like, that sensibility that filmmaking aesthetic had, kind of those early Spielberg in a way. And so it was…

54:30Jawad MirExcuse me

54:31Lyn Moncrief... I think, a, I think having the physical puppeteered animatronics, and the physicality of that, and, I think only kind of just helped seal the deal, I think, in some of, some of the aesthetics. And of course, Jim Henson, known for some of those movies that came through that era as well is, it kind of was a nice touch, you know?

54:54Jawad MirYeah. Awesome. Yeah, no, for sure. I'm, I'm, you know, r… listen, the, it's been a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much…

55:03Lyn MoncriefYes, likewise

55:03Jawad Mir... For your time. I would love to talk to you longer, but, just time constraints. And, would love to talk to you more…

55:10Lyn MoncriefOf course

55:10Jawad Mir... In the future about your other projects. We actually reached out to Emma's office, or Emma's, publicist, and would love to talk to her too, so let's see what she says. It'd be nice to have, her point of view…

55:20Lyn MoncriefYeah

55:20Jawad Mir... And her angle.

55:21Lyn MoncriefYeah, that'd be cool.

55:23Jawad MirGreat. Thank you so much, Lynn, for your time, man. We'll be in touch.

55:27Lyn MoncriefYes, thank you s… yes, thank you so much.

55:30Jawad MirI hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for watching and listening. Don't forget to subscribe, like, share, and comment, and do come back for another episode. Until then, have a great day.