'Gran Turismo', Composer, Andrew Kawczynski

0:07Jawad MirGood. Yourself?

0:09Andrew KawczynskiYeah, not too bad. I'm just finally wrapping up projects, so I'm, I'm coming up for air. It's been a, it's been a long five months.

0:20Jawad MirThat's good to hear. Are you allowed to talk about what project it is?

0:24Andrew KawczynskiI... Yeah, I was just helping out Hans on Dune. Yeah, 'cause I, we finished Gran Turismo about, like, a month and a half ago, and…

0:32Jawad MirYeah

0:32Andrew Kawczynski... I worked on the first one, and they were just wrapping stuff up, so I just came in and didn't do much, but just a few things here and there 'cause I was only on the project for about a month. But yeah. Yeah, it was... 'Cause I started on Gran Turismo in February and didn't really stop until June, so yeah.

0:53Jawad MirWonderful. Well, congratulations on your long career. Not that long…

0:59Andrew KawczynskiOh, thank you

0:59Jawad Mir... But still, but still, I mean, I've gone through your credits and, you know, grown up watching Hans Zimmer and people like, Mark Mancina and then…

1:09Andrew KawczynskiYeah

1:09Jawad Mir... Harry Gregs… Harry Gregson-William, Steve, Jablonsky, I think it is

1:14Andrew KawczynskiYeah

1:15Jawad Mir... If I guess. Yeah. We… I mean, more or less all of them kinda came through Hans Zimmer. I think it used to be a company called Media Ventures. I don't know if it still exist.

1:25Andrew KawczynskiNo, Media Venture shut down in the early 2000s.

1:28Jawad MirRight.

1:28Andrew Kawczynski'cause it's a partnership that has since been dissolved, and now it's Remote Control. But yeah, they all came up under, from under him, Lorne included, yeah.

1:38Jawad MirYeah. And how... Actually, Lorne, you know, he's… I was introduced to his work from the 13th Hour

1:45Andrew KawczynskiOh, right

1:45Jawad Mir... Michael Bay film. I think, I could be wrong, correct me, I think that was one of his early, not necessarily or first film, but something that got more recognized than the other at least to me.

1:56Andrew KawczynskiYeah

1:57Jawad Mir... And... Go on.

2:00Andrew KawczynskiYeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, Lorne, I mean, Lorne was working with, Hans for, I don't know, seven or eight years, and they… He had, like, various credits. But yeah, he started to work with Michael Bay and started to venture out, work with, oh, my gosh, what's his name? I'm sorry. I, it'll come…

2:21Jawad MirThat's okay

2:22Andrew Kawczynski... But y… yeah. I'm, I'm just, I… It's incredible how much Lorne has blown up 'cause I, you know, I started actually working underneath him as an as… as his assistant, back in 2008. 'cause when I came to Remote Control, I started off as an intern, and then, Lorne needed a new technical assistant. So I started with him back then, and, kinda started on this journey with him years and years ago, and it's just, it's absolutely incredible how his career has taken off 'cause he's, he's just such a talented composer and musician, and his ability to write music at such a incredible speed is unheard of. I, you know, I don't know anyone else that can, that can write tunes as quickly as that man can.

3:07Jawad MirRight. We'll come back to him, but I wanna learn more about you. How… What's your journey like, getting into the world of music? Not necessarily what you're doing right now in Hollywood, but just the early days, what got you into music and the path that you've taken to get where you are.

3:25Andrew KawczynskiYeah. So, you know, I actually started, I started playing guitar in bands in high school. Mostly it was, it was mostly, like, hardcore punk, metal music, and, you know, we drifted between... I think I was in six different bands. It's that kind of high school thing where you start a band, and then you start another band, and then you're…

3:46Andrew Kawczynski... You know, you kept transferring…

3:47Jawad MirYep

3:48Andrew Kawczynski... Over. But growing up, I was actually an avid hockey player. And you know… ... I loved to play hockey up in, up in, like, Washington and Spokane. And I played in, like, a Canadian league for a year, and I actually really injured myself. I pulled my groin and my hip flexor. I was, I was just skating, and then I was skating down the ice. Another person came up, kneed me in my… It was a knee-to-knee collision. My knee came all the way around. You know, I was in bed for, like, three months after that. And I believe that was the moment where I really started to play the guitar, and I really started to learn about music, how to write music, learning about music theory, circle of fifths, all of those kinds of things, and started to really immerse myself in that world because, you know, ever since I was a, ever since I was a kid, you know, I loved playing guitars, and I always wanted to, you know, be in a rock band, but I wanted to write music. And I would sit there playing guitar, and I'd be like, "Oh, well, I could do this line, but then underneath that I can do this line."

4:54Andrew KawczynskiAnd I was like, "Okay, you know, I… There's, there's a lot of steps to writing music," and I started to see that I could do this digitally with computers, that I could learn how to write music on computers and Pro Tools, Cubase, whatev… what have you. And so after I had injured myself and I had really immersed myself in this world, I wi… I started to look for education to where I could learn how to use computers to write music. So I, you know, I decided to not go to, Berkeley or any one of these, schools that would take a, you know, a degree or take around four years to complete, three to four years. And I found this school called L… Los Angeles Recording School

5:39Andrew Kawczynski... 'cause a friend had went there, and they mostly specialize in engineering, you know, and on that side of things. But I had a secret passion or, like, a secret… When I went through it, I was like, "Well, I wanna go through this program to learn how to write music on computers." and it was such a small form of that whole world, that I kinda took that opportunity And the school offered, internship programs with studios, you know, different places around here in Los Angeles. And my guidance counselor called me in once, and he was like, "Okay, so, you know, I know that you wanna write music. You don't want, really wanna do engineering stuff. And, you know, we have this film composer named Hans Zimmer." And I was like, "Who the hell's Hans Zimmer?"

6:29Jawad MirWhat year was this?

6:30Andrew KawczynskiThis was 2007.

6:34Jawad MirOkay, so he was very well-established by then. Okay.

6:36Andrew KawczynskiYeah. Well, I had no idea what film music was.

6:39Jawad MirYeah.

6:39Andrew KawczynskiI just…

6:40Jawad MirYeah

6:40Andrew Kawczynski... You know, whenever I was watching a movie and I saw a music by, I would always be like, "No, that's not... That person didn't write this song that's playing right now." I don't, I didn't understand what background music was for film.

6:52Jawad MirRight. Right.

6:53Andrew KawczynskiYou know, I was such like a rock EDM guy that I didn't even, necessarily think about it, 'cause, you know, like another... I'm, I'm actually very big into electronic music, and, you know, another one of the things that I did when I was 18, 19 was I made, I made loops for DJs, you know, material for them to interchange between songs and stuff like that. So I had like a very big passion for electronic music. And so when my guidance counselor told me about this guy, Hans Zimmer, I went back home. I Googled him. I started looking into him. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I love the music for Pirates. Like, I love the Kraken. Like, I love Gladiator. Gladiator was one of my favorite movies. And I was just... I couldn't believe that there was this whole world out there, and it was just, it was a whole new discovery for me. So yeah, my, a, you know, I, my guidance counselor, you know, he offered me two positions. He's like, "You can have an unpaid internship at Hans Zimmer Studio, or y… there's a paid job at a ADR sound effects editing house here in Santa Monica."

8:03Andrew KawczynskiAnd so, you know, I went to my parents and I said like, "Hey, you know, there's this big film composer, but the job's unpaid. I don't know." A… and they said it'll be about three months until I'll start getting paid like a runner rate and everything. And I was like, "Should I take this job that's actually paying?" And my parents go, "No, y… go with this guy, Hans Zimmer. It seems like you can get such mi… such higher places."

8:26Jawad MirYeah.

8:27Andrew KawczynskiAnd yeah, so I did that. I went home. I worked for my dad on the weekends just to make enough money to make bu… get by. And then yeah, you know, I started off as a unpaid internship for about two and a half months, and then I was a runner for another month. And then I started working with Lorne. And yeah, just I started off as a technical assistant, helping him with any technical issues. And then, you know, he eventually, he saw that I, you know, I had an ear for sound, for sound design since I started making sounds for him, started to add stuff to some of his pieces, and then I started writing for him. And I kinda did everything all at once. I w… you know, 'cause Lorne wasn't as big back then. So I was his technical assistant, his writer, personal assistant, all of these things. And then Lorne gave me an opportunity with Hans. It was on Dark Knight Rises.

9:30Andrew Kawczynski... And he put in a good word to Hans, and he said, "Hey, this Andrew kid, you know, he may be able to put two notes together, and he may be able to get stuff to sound good." So that was my opportunity. And yeah, the first musical task I ever did for Hans was take his Bane suite, which was in 5/4, and turn it into 4/4. And so yeah, so that kind of started my whole career with Hans. And then I was additional writer for Hans for probably six or seven years. And then yeah, left, started doing some films on my own, and then came back, worked on Top Gun, worked on Dune. And then yeah, kind of where I'm at today. But you know, it really is kind of a big family here at Remote with, you know... It is a bit more of a family. It's not just a working environment.

10:27Jawad MirRight.

10:27Andrew KawczynskiSo, you know, it's, it's nice to stay in touch with people and, you know, work on new films, collaborate on new material, and everything.

10:38Jawad MirWhat a wonderful story, and kudos to your parents, for guiding you. Because, you know, nor… normally, I wouldn't say all the time, normally, you know, parents wouldn't understand, not all, but m… most parents don't understand art and the idea of unpaid and not even knowing who Hans Zimmer was. So I mean, that really set a trajectory for you in working with Hans and Lorne and then working on Dark Knight and all the other titles that you just talked about. Wonderful. Love it. Absolutely love your story, man. It's truly, amazing the journey that you have taken, and it... I mean, you told me in what? Five minutes? But the kind of stuff that you probably went through, I mean, only you know the difficulties and the path that you took and how you got there, so kudos for you.

11:25Andrew KawczynskiYeah. I mean, it's, it's definitely not without a crazy work ethic and long hours.

11:31Jawad MirYeah.

11:31Andrew KawczynskiYou know, 'cause I think that 2009, I think that year I worked on a… around 12 films. And we got to Christmas, and I finally had a couple days off, and then I kinda went through the whole year and I was like, "Oh my gosh, this whole year I've only had five days off." like I was working weekends, working eight-hour weeks, and it's just... It's... It takes a lot of effort and a lot of time. And, yeah, it really is a huge dedication, and it's just no one's ever gifted, you know, all of these things.

12:07Jawad MirYeah.

12:07Andrew KawczynskiYou need to work hard to, for them, and you need to work through your process of elimination to get rid of bad ideas and let good ideas actually flourish and stuff, so.

12:19Jawad MirYeah. Well, it's, it's, it's one thing to get to where, like, to find a break, right? But that…

12:25Andrew KawczynskiYeah

12:25Jawad Mir... Might be... It's not easy, but that might be easier than consistently maintaining it, because that's where a lot of people, not just in arts and film and music, any, in any career, they, the, you know, everybody sees the final output of a successful individual and…

12:42Andrew KawczynskiYeah

12:42Jawad Mir... They feel like they don't understand the difficulties, it took them and the work ethic, because that's the most important thing among anything else. You can be a terrible, you know, engineer, you can be a terrible whatever, but if you have a strong work ethic, employer will notice that and will allocate you in the right place.

13:02Andrew KawczynskiYeah, exactly. And I mean, I learned that from Lorne and Hans. I mean, Hans never stops having ideas. He's having ideas every single day up until the last second that the dub prints. And you know, y… there's a lot of great ideas, there's some bad ideas, but a lot of these things actually matriculate to something that's actually quite special. And, you know, it's incredible just, you know, looking back on some of the films, like some of the big themes, like some of, like, the really, like some of the things…

13:33Andrew Kawczynski... That really resonated with the audience are, they come at the end of the project. You know, they're not the first idea. They're like… ... The 200th idea that has stemmed from 40 other ideas. And I think that's where I learned it from, is, you know, from Hans and Lorne, is to never be satisfied and to always explore what else is out there. Because it's the same thing in records, you know? But, like these producers will work on a record for years and years and years perfecting it, and we don't have that luxury, you know? We have anywhere from three to six months

14:10Jawad MirYeah

14:10Andrew Kawczynski... To get all of these things finished and, articulated.

14:15Jawad MirYeah. And I remember, I mean, I don't have any stats to back this up, but I'm just speaking from my own, childhood. You know, what John Williams did in the '70s and the, '80s, I would say. Hans Zimmer came, I think one of his most first recognized score was Rain Man with Tom Cruise…

14:33Andrew KawczynskiYeah

14:33Jawad Mir... And Dustin Hoffman. And then when Crimson Tide came out, that put him at another level. But I specifically remember the one that really got me, there were two soundtracks that really got me into movie scores. Last of Mohicans by Trevor, what's his name? Rabin? Is it Rabin?

14:49Andrew KawczynskiIt's Rabin, yeah.

14:49Jawad MirTrevor Rabin, yeah. And then, The Rock, Harry Gregson-Williams and Hans Zimmer. And I think the idea of background scores becoming so popular started, in my view, because of those films. Because it wasn't a huge thing as far as I know in the '80s. I mean, there would be like a Best Music category, an Oscar category, there would be audio cassettes. But what Hans Zimmer and his team and all of you guys have done, the, it's just a completely new thing, where I even remember in the late '90s, early 2000s, a lot of movies that Zimmer or other great composers did would not get a soundtrack of score. It would just be, like, songs that were featured in the film.

15:32Andrew KawczynskiRight. Right.

15:32Jawad MirBut now I think it's like a mandatory thing, now every movie gets a score released either on iTunes, Spotify, or a CD. But yeah, no, this is, that's, that's... It's, it's just such a, such a thing to see evolution of. And Hans Zimmer, you know, now he's doing all these con… concerts that are sold out in Europe. And my son, he's such a crazy fan of it, and he... I bought him a piano and I started doing some lessons with him with a, with an instructor, and he just plays that Interstellar cornfield…

16:03Andrew KawczynskiOh, yeah

16:04Jawad Mir... Back and forth. Is it cornfield? No, it's that, the one with the really fast, the instrument that they use in church. You know, the

16:13Andrew KawczynskiThe organ

16:14Jawad Mir... The organs, yeah.

16:16Andrew KawczynskiYeah.

16:16Jawad MirBut yeah, he's inspired so many people. I mean, and he's such a humble guy at the same time, so…

16:22Andrew KawczynskiYeah

16:22Jawad Mir... Yeah, you're, you're great hands, man.

16:24Andrew KawczynskiNo, he truly is an incredible person. And, you know, 'cause I went on, I went on two Hans Zimmer tours. I went on the one in '22… ... The European tour, and then I went on another European tour back in 2017. So I got to see how much people love him. And, you know, this, I wasn't able to go on this most recent tour because of Gran Turismo, but when he was playing…

16:49Jawad MirYeah

16:49Andrew Kawczynski... In London, I went to the show and I, that was the first show I've ever seen on that side of the stage, and I was like, "This isn't film music. This is like a rock show."

17:01Jawad MirYeah. The, there's a, there's a very popular video on YouTube. I mean, it was a really nice, it was shot really well. It had like 10 different cameras. It was a really nice, auditorium, and this was the piece that he was playing, Time from Inception.

17:16Jawad MirAnd then, and then he walks out with the guitar, and then, and people went nuts when they saw him. I don't know if you were there. I think it was 2017 one, I'm, I'm guessing.

17:26Andrew KawczynskiYeah.

17:26Jawad MirBut yeah, he has g… he's got such a follow. And like you said, I think the key thing is you get that kind of stuff, like, at a, you know, a rock band or, like, you know, somebody like Britney Spears or Drake…

17:39Andrew KawczynskiRight

17:39Jawad Mir... Or whatever. But he's just built a huge fan base, and he's... I think it's also his personality, of course, you know, that attracts people to him.

17:47Andrew KawczynskiYeah

17:47Jawad Mir... You know, going back to your work, when you started with Dark Knight, tell me a story from Dark Knight. Was it Dark Knight or Dark Knight Rises you said?

17:55Andrew KawczynskiDark Knight Rises

17:57Jawad MirRises, yes, Bane. What did you work on, what was your first... What was your job on that? Like, what were you doing and the kinda challenges at, as a first film that you came across, what was that like?

18:12Andrew KawczynskiYeah, I think, you know, this was the first film that I was working with Hans in a creative atmosphere. You know, I'm, I'm, I spend a lot of time making sounds. I spend a lot of time designing synths, using new and different techniques to how, on how to adjust things and make things work differently. I'm, I'm very much a rock guy. I'm very much into how things sound, getting things to sound good. And so yeah, they, the, you know, the first thing that he had me bring, come on, and because no one really knew how to do it, was, you know, the Bane suite, which is in 5/4, deshi, basa, rabasa, deshi, basa. And but we were, we had a lot of action cues where Batman is in 4/4.

19:03Andrew KawczynskiAnd so, you know, no one really knew how to turn that piece from 5/4 into 4/4. So I kind of sat with it for two days, and then all of a sudden it just came to me, just deshi, basa, rabasa, deshi, basa, rabasa. And then that was a way to incorporate the Bane material in with, all of the Batman material. So that was the first task, and then everything just kinda went from there, you know? L… Hans has a lot of ideas, and a lot of these ideas take a lot of effort in order to experiment. You know, trying to find new and different ways on how to do things. And, you know, Dark Knight Rises, we had Catwoman, so there was a lot of like…

19:44Andrew Kawczynski... Knife sounds, things that h… Hans had made. And so I was trying to expand upon that, or, you know, experimenting with slowing things down. There's this plugin called PaulXstretch, I think we've used and abused it, over the last 10 years. It, and I... Or 15 years, and I think it's about time we need to move on from it. But it slows ting… things down up to, like, 800, 10,000%. So it was slowing really fast pieces down, seeing what new artifacts came in there. Taking brass effects from sessions, slowing that down, turning it into pads. And then I, you know, I also worked with Junkie XL on adding drums to, pieces, to action pieces, to bring them up. And then I also wrote cues. I think I wrote around sev… you know, seven or eight cues, you know, working closely with Hans and, Chris, and everyone else on, you know, getting Hans' themes in there.

20:44Andrew KawczynskiBecause, you know, Dark Knight was, funnily enough, when they were finishing Dark Knight with Heath Ledger, that's when I started interning here. And it was the score that really just pulled me into film music, 'cause I was like, you know, it's sound design based. He's only using two notes for the Joker. Like, there are new things that I've never heard before, and I was just like, "Yeah, this is fucking cool." you know, and I was just... It was, it was more up my street. So it's, m… more up my street, these kind of more production type style effects, bringing EDM dance music into film music, but doing it in a new and different ways that doesn't feel so regimented.

21:29Andrew KawczynskiAnd yeah, it really is, it really was a project that just kind of pulled this all in together. And then, you know, I remember I was out in London, working with Hans on this, like this small, romantic comedy. And, he had just gone to the premiere for Dark Knight Rises in London. And then the day after, they had the shooting at Aurora.

21:55Andrew KawczynskiAnd kind of the whole world just came crashing down. And that's when Hans decided to write a piece for all of the fallen victims and the people that lost their lives, and all the people that were affected. And he wrote this, you know, gorgeous piece, a choral piece, that, you know, we, you know, we put together in, like, three days and then recorded, choir at Air, and then released it. And, you know, all of the proceeds went to it. So it was a very heavy first project, that kind of encompassed a, w… a rather large period of time and, yeah.

22:35Jawad MirWell, it probably sets you... It's always nice in retrospect that you do something really challenging and tough, because then it sort of sets the tone in your mind how life is gonna be, you know, as opposed to you just being thrown into something easy, and then all of a sudden something tough comes out of no way.

22:52Andrew KawczynskiYeah.

22:52Jawad MirY… you talked about a plugin that's been used over and over. It's funny you mention that, because I find, Hans Zimmer or, you know, everybody that sort of worked with him, there was a very consistent, music, and certain notes were very similar, like Gladiator, Crimson Tide, The Rock, Lion King. And then Batman completely changed everything, at least from, you know, Zimmer and team, meaning you guys. And then that sort of started becoming a trend. And Dune, I think the first Dune changed, made, brought that change again. Now, I have listened to Dune soundtrack a few times. Frankly, honest with you, it's tryin'... It's slowly wearing on me. I didn't really enjoy it as much as I did in Zimmer's old work. But at the same time, I know it's something fresh, right? Because these things... 'Cause in my head it's all, like, you know, the last 20, 30 years…

23:46Andrew KawczynskiRight

23:46Jawad Mir... Of all the music that... But it's good to see that, because you, y… after a while you just start being repetitive, whether it's music or whether it's, like, you know, making films or whatever you're doing. You just have to challenge yourself and try something new, even if majority of people don't like it, because then it slowly wears on you.

24:01Andrew KawczynskiYeah. No, of course. And I think that's why Han… what makes Hans so successful, you know, 'cause yeah, you can't keep doing those big, bold, heroic tunes from…

24:14Jawad MirYeah

24:15Andrew Kawczynski... Rock, Crimson Tide, Gladiator, you know, 'cause there's only so many that you can do. And, you know, he definitely changed the face of film music back then. And then, you know, I feel like… You know, Hans gets bored and he wants to bring new ideas.

24:33Jawad MirYeah.

24:33Andrew KawczynskiAnd so things like Dark Knight, Inception, Interstellar, you know, these were all, Sherlock Holmes, these were all opportunities to, you know, bring in new instruments and, you know, sample things so that you could play tunes in new and different ways. And, you know, Hans has a style, and he has a harmonic structure that works incredibly. He found his key, and I think that, you know, that's what makes him so prominent in the film music world, is that he doesn't just keep doing the same things over and over again. And, you know, Dune was a tough one because you're creating music for a world that's 10,000 years in the future.

25:19Andrew KawczynskiAnd it's trying to come up with something completely new and different and, you know, I, you know, Hans started to use the octatonic scale, you know, the whole half whole, half whole step. And the crazy thing about that scale, and so many composers can, and can resonate with it, is that you can create actually some beautiful music with these new harmonics, that doesn't sound like things before. There's like a little slight edge to it. There's that major minor that you're playing on that kind of, it perks your ear up, and I feel like, you know, it may, it may wear on people, but it's, it's new, it's different, it's fresh, and it's, it's... The thing about Dune is that music is so specific to that film. You know, Hans is so passionate about this book and this series with Denis. He's just poured his life into it. And I think that he wanted to create something for that film, for that world, not for film music.

26:23Andrew KawczynskiHe, and I think that he was quite successful in doing that, in creating a whole new world. And, you know, even coming back to work on the second one, I was just, I was blown away with what he was doing. It was just, I just, I can't believe that a man that has written over 250 themes is still able to reinvent the wheel and still able to come up with something that hasn't been done before.

26:50Jawad MirI'm, I'm surprised but I'm not surprised that he's written over 250 themes.

26:54Andrew KawczynskiYeah.

26:54Jawad MirI mean, that's, that's, that's insane. That's, that's, I mean, it just seems like a, you know, 200 is not a big, but it's a big number. That's a huge number.

27:03Andrew KawczynskiIt really is.

27:03Jawad MirWow.

27:03Andrew KawczynskiAnd it's not just four-bar themes. It's well-thought 32-bar themes with B parts, C parts, you know, it just, you know, and it's, yeah, it's, it's incredible how he can just go back into, back into the writing room and come up with new material.

27:23Jawad MirRight. So from 2008 up until Top Gun: Maverick, you were kinda like, additional music, writer, technician, all that stuff, and that, and your first soundtrack was last year, which I'm having a hard time pronouncing. Mensheye Lo? Is that, is that how you pronounce it? At least that's what it says on IMDb.

27:45Andrew KawczynskiI'm sorry, which soundtrack?

27:47Jawad MirM-E-N-S-H-E-Y-E Lo.

27:53Andrew KawczynskiOh, I don't know what that is.

27:54Jawad MirYeah. You may wanna get that corrected on IMDb.

27:57Andrew KawczynskiYes.

27:57Jawad MirIt says that you were a composer. What about Ping Pong: The Triumph?

28:01Andrew KawczynskiYeah, so I mean, that was done with Lorne. I think that…

28:06Jawad MirOkay

28:06Andrew Kawczynski... You know, my solo career kinda started back in 2016. I, you know, I did a, I did a film with Issa López, who's directing the current True Detective. It was a Mexican comedy. I also did this film called The Corrupted, which is a UK-based film with Sam Claflin and Timothy Spall. And then I've also done, you know, a few different, Chinese films, from Sky Hunter to The Eight Hundred, which was back in 2020, and then Ping Pong, which I, which I did with Lorne. Lorne had written the main theme and I had done the music. So yeah, I think my solo career has been, you know, kind of on and off for the past few years, and, you know, kind of filling it in with, additional music credits as well.

29:05Jawad MirYeah. So would Gran… Gran Turismo would be the first major one in your view, like a Hollywood major film?

29:13Andrew KawczynskiYeah. Yeah, it's kind of…

29:14Jawad MirSo…

29:14Andrew Kawczynski... The first worldwide release, solo credit.

29:19Jawad MirHow do you feel about it?

29:22Andrew KawczynskiI'm excited. Yeah, it's, you know, I, Lorne texted me back in, February about it and, you know, we were, I kinda, we started working on themes, started working on suites back then, and it was a long road. You know, there were, there were a lot of themes and arcs that needed to be sorted and that needed to be talked through with Neil, and it, you know, we were, we were definitely wanting to pay homage to the video game world and the franchise…

29:55Andrew Kawczynski... That Gran Turismo has ha… has started. And, you know, we didn't wanna necessarily take anything harmonically from the music, but just more the atmosphere of the, of the gaming world and how to make things more immersive for the driver. You know, i… like incorporating, Certain engine sounds, certain car techniques into sound design, into backing tracks, into percussion, like not using actual samples, but just kind of taking inspiration from that and seeing how we can further push that because the, you know, the film is extremely fast-paced and it's, you know, it's two hours, but it feels like an hour and a half. And Neill was, you know, he was, he was very in touch with keeping the pace up and moving the story along, and not feeling like we're getting bogged down by any of the, you know, any of the dialogue scenes, or any other, any other scenes that kinda dragged in the film.

30:59Andrew KawczynskiI mean, there really weren't many. But yeah, it was, it was incredible. I did the, I did the whole film in the UK. You know, I moved to the UK, back in December, and I've kind of been popping back and forth. And you know, I did a lot here in the US as well. But it was, yeah, it… there was, there were a lot of new discoveries 'cause we were trying to cri… trying to create, like, a soundscape that would be specific to this film, and that would actually also be in touch with a lot of the source music that's there. 'cause there's a lot of hip hop music, and there's a couple, like, rock tracks and everything. And, you know, with there being so much source music in the film, we wanted to have the score to kinda be on a similar level, and to resonate with these, with these tracks and, yeah, not, yeah, not just be a typical score.

32:00Andrew KawczynskiAnd so, you know, one thing that we really wanted to expand on was, the way that we used vocals. You know, I feel that, I feel like, vocals can play such an important s… part…

32:15Jawad MirSure

32:15Andrew Kawczynski... In scores. And it can bring, like, a certain humanity to everything. It can help you resonate, with the characters and, you know, and but not using vocals in a traditional sense, you know? We'll, we'll kinda take off the fronts and put on long fades so it doesn't... You kinda have a voice that's coming out of nowhere, or throwing it through vocoders, doubling, tripling, with, you know, a bunch of different artists, and kind of seeing what could come from there. It was this whole synth vox thing that Neill actually really encouraged us to see where we could take it, and, you know, kind of using short, percussive vocals, to double, like, sequencers and synth sounds, just to, just to add a certain humanity to it 'cause, you know, we didn't really wanna use guitar. Guitar has been used in so many racing films, and it just, it seems like that instrument that composers tend to gravitate towards to.

33:15Andrew KawczynskiAnd we wanted to keep it, keep it young and f… and fresh.

33:21Jawad MirYeah. And, you know, Neill, has done some incredible films. It's been a while, since I've... I... He's done quite a few films at the beginning of his career, which was, District 9, and, Elis… Elysium, and, what was the other one? It was Chappie something, I think it was called.

33:41Andrew KawczynskiYeah.

33:41Jawad MirYeah. W… had you seen his films before, just to get an idea before in, just to get an idea what kind of music he's more attracted to in his storytelling?

33:55Andrew KawczynskiWell, I worked on Chappie.

33:57Jawad MirOh, you did? Okay.

33:58Andrew KawczynskiYeah. Hans Zimmer did the music. And I worked on it with Steve Mazzaro, and everyone else. So I... That was one of the reasons as to why Lorne kinda reached out to me, because I had this previous work experience with him. And, yeah, it's... I... Neill has a very, fresh take. He really loves things that are hummable, that are singable, things that, you know, the audience can latch onto.

34:29Andrew Kawczynski... He doesn't just want driving music that just pedals through everything. He wants to have a little bit of ear candy, something that you can be like, "Oh, okay, what's going on there?"

34:40Jawad MirYeah

34:40Andrew Kawczynski... And so yeah, on Chappie, you know, we, Hans, wanted to do an all synthesizer score. And, you know, we didn't use any orchestra, and it was most, it was, or any... We did use real instruments, but they were going through synths. They were going through effects. And so we were kind of creating this whole new world, and Neill just, he just, he gave us the freedom to experiment. He was all for experimenting, all for finding new ways of doing things, and I s… we saw another opportunity to do that on Gran Turismo. You know, it's, it was funny, when I went to,.. It wasn't really a premiere. It was, like, a fan appreciation screening because of everything…

35:26Andrew Kawczynski... That's going on with SAG right now. And Neill was there, and he, you know, Neill was like, "Yeah, you know, my, all my films are, like, fucked up dystopian pictures." and he's like, and, you know, I wanted to, I want... He's, he said that he wanted to, create something, digestible and m… a bit more mainstream and, you know, kinda create a Rocky, kind of film, have an underdog that you really fight for. And that was really one of, one of the highlights to the film, was how do we propel Jann throughout the story? And we're always focused on Jann, whether it's his love of driving, his family atmosphere, the anxiety that he has inside. You know, he has such a strong fear of failure. You know, it was how do we, how do we represent that in the score, but also overcome it when he does, eventually break through because of the drive and determination. You know, I just...

36:26Andrew KawczynskiWhen I found out that this story was real, I couldn't believe it. I was just…

36:29Jawad MirYeah

36:29Andrew Kawczynski... I was blown away. I was like, "How, h… how is this real?" Like, when I r… remember when I first watched the film and I'm like yeah, gamers becoming real life racers. Yeah, right, that's bullshit. And then to know that this guy Jan Martenborough had been through it, and yeah, and multiple, mult… like many other people have actually gone through it, I think it was, it was quite an inspiration, and it was, it was, yeah, like how do we, how do we fuel that fire? How do we move that engine, for Jan to, you know, propel himself into this real life career and out of sim racing?

37:08Jawad MirYou know, I'm glad you mentioned that because it is a crazy story. Like you…

37:12Andrew KawczynskiYeah

37:13Jawad Mir... If somebody, you know, if s… if it wasn't a true story, you would think it's such a fake, unrealistic film. But the fact that it's a true story, you know, you can't, you have to, of course, you know, buy into it. But what I find in... My question is this, is that the fact that it's a crazy story, right? Like, and obviously for him to go from, being a video gamer to a real driver, it wasn't like, "Oh, I'm gonna become an o… overnight success." He had to go through all the pain and the suffering to get to where he wanted, rejection, and, you know, all these things. Your career in the beginning, you know, obviously, like I said, or even now, up until now, it has had a lot of hiccups, I'm 100% sure. You know, ups and downs, that's just life. How much of that, your own pain or troubles that you went through b… coming to where you are now, did you try to incorporate, if at all, into the, music that feeling of rejection, that feeling of struggling, and the work ethic, and all that?

38:19Andrew KawczynskiYeah. I mean ab… absolutely. You know, the most recent story that resonates with me the most is that, is the pandemic. Because, you know, when the pandemic happened, everything kind of shut down. Like, I was working on Top Gun still, and I was about to start working on Dune. And so but the pandemic just kind of made me realize that everything can stop, and, you know, no one is invincible. You know, I believe that leading up to the pandemic, I was very fortunate to be working c… on a consistent basis. And, you know, I've... There would be times where I'd have a month or two-month break. And so after we finished Dune back in 2020, I went about a year unemployed. I went…

39:11Andrew Kawczynski... Like, there was about a year of trying to get films, trying to get projects. Just things weren't out there. I was talking to my agent every week. We were trying to work on battle plans and everything, and I think that was my first real taste of rejection. And, like, you know, I don't think I can necessarily constitute it as failure, because it was a global pandemic. We were having to go through so many films were just put on the shelf and, you know

39:42Jawad MirRight

39:42Andrew Kawczynski... A lot of, there was a lot of restructuring and everything, and I think that I had a real battle with my ego back then, and I realized that, you know, no one's invincible. And, you know, if... And I kinda took it as motivation to propel myself as a composer to realize that never, like, never settle for anything. Never think that just something is okay, or never thinking that okay is good enough. Constantly, you know, I... In that time, I found nature. I would go on hikes. I started to listen to music again. I think that's a crazy thing that a lot of people don't know, but as a composer, like, there are times where you just don't listen to music for pleasure. You know, you're just listening to stuff to research, look into things. And back in 2021, I started to listen to music again for pleasure. And I started watching films again.

40:42Andrew KawczynskiI started watching two to three films a week, get like, watching all the art films of the past five years that I had missed because I was working on other projects.

40:53Jawad MirYeah.

40:53Andrew KawczynskiAnd I just threw myself back into my passion, back into what I love, back into what got me into this career, because the love of music is what got me into this, and you can lose sight of that very easily, and it can turn into a job, and it can turn into something that's quite formulaic. And then you get stale, and you stop expanding yourself. And I think that y… this period of time was, it was a time where I really wanted to expand myself and, start try, start writing music that meant something, that mattered, that had a voice, that had a story, that had passion behind it, and not just settling for, you know, whatever came. And so I think that I used that really as motivation throughout this film, was, you know, how do we propel ourselves? How do we propel the music? How do we propel the sound design to fit this story and arc in new and different ways?

41:59Andrew KawczynskiAnd I really start to try and resonate with what Jan was going through. So yeah.

42:10Jawad MirYeah, no…

42:10Andrew KawczynskiI'm not sure if I actually answered your question.

42:13Jawad MirYou did. You did, because it's funny you mention that, because, between 2010 and up until pandemic, I stopped watching movies the way I used to watch it, and there were many reasons for that.

42:26Andrew KawczynskiRight.

42:26Jawad MirOnce, you know, also kids came into life, and busy making films. And then when, and then pandemic happened, and obviously just like you, like I watched Breaking Bad, the entire series. I had never seen it before.

42:40Andrew KawczynskiYeah.

42:40Jawad MirAnd then watching all these films that I had never even heard of before, and it... You're right, because when you're in that medium, you… You do stuff for research, you'll watch something for research or just a clip or something, or listen to a piece, but you forget why you f… fell in love with what you do in the first place.

43:00Andrew KawczynskiRight.

43:00Jawad MirAnd I ki… and I kid you not, now watching movies or good series or sh… well, you know, like a eight-episode series, it's just so rejuvenating. Like, it's, it's like life, you know... It's not just our, your work or my work or anyone else's work, it's just being in that world. It's, I don't even know how to explain it. It just feels like you're alive again, and you're back into that world that you always grew up watching and listening to.

43:25Andrew KawczynskiExactly. Like, you have to remember how to be a kid again, you know? We lose sight…

43:30Jawad MirThat's the key word

43:31Andrew Kawczynski... Of that childlike mind of absorbing everything that's around us. And like, you know, I have such a passion for film and music that once you lose that passion, you lose that opinion. You lose your voice. You lo… lose, like, what you're trying to contribute to this creative world. And things can just become vanilla, cookie cutter, just very s…

43:57Jawad MirYeah

43:57Andrew Kawczynski... Ordinary, serviceable.

44:00Jawad MirYeah, no kidding. What's, what's next for you besides Dune or anything else that you're able to reveal that you are working on as a composer?

44:11Andrew KawczynskiYeah, the... I mean, there's a couple things that I can't necessarily talk about too much.

44:16Jawad MirNo worries

44:16Andrew Kawczynski... There's, yeah, I'm, I'm actually, I'm just wrapping up this film called The Yester Year. It's, it's like a very artsy film. A… it wa… it's directed by my close friend, Adam Villaseñor. He did this movie called In Full Bloom, which was a boxing film that was released back in 2018, I believe, that I did the music for. And, you know, during the pandemic, he came to me, you know, 'cause he went to, he went to, Mexico

44:49Andrew Kawczynski... During the pandemic, the initial stages, just to, like, disappear. And it w… was, you know, quite wise in retrospect…

44:56Jawad MirYeah

44:56Andrew Kawczynski... Not having to deal with empty grocery stores and all that kind of stuff. But when he went down there, he wrote a script with his girlfriend, of whom is the lead actress in the film, Cory Yanka Kilcher. And it's pretty much just about a girl losing her mind in COVID, in COVID times. He shot the whole film on his iPhone. It's completely self-financed. And it's, it really, it is a passion project for me. I am an executive producer on it. And…

45:30Jawad MirLovely

45:30Andrew Kawczynski... You know, it's very close to finishing, so hopefully within the next six months it'll, it will be out there. But yeah, I think, just one story from it is, there's a huge Native American influence on the film, because the lead actress is actually Dine from the Navajo tribe. And so, it is a thread throughout the film, and we actually got permission from the president of Navajo Nation to go onto the reservation to record a tribe's healing song.

46:05Jawad MirNice

46:06Andrew Kawczynski... And it was just a once in a lifetime experience. You know? We went onto the reservation, and then all of a sudden we come up to the tribe, and it turns out that one of the girls is having a coming of life ceremony. And so, and this, coming of life ceremony for a Native American girl is nothing like a sweet 16 or a quinceañera. It's like a week of hard work. It's a week of running, cleaning everything, making dinner, all of this stuff. They really put them to work.

46:36Jawad MirWow.

46:36Andrew KawczynskiWhen we got there, they're, she was actually going on her, spirit run, which was, like, one of the last runs of the week, where she had to run a half mile out, half mile back, and they just wanted as many people around her to support her. And they're just, everyone's like, "Scream at the top of your lungs. Just scream." So we're running with her…

46:57Andrew Kawczynski... Just screaming, trying to get her, like, spirits to come down to be with her, and I'm j… I'm running, screaming. I'm like, "What the hell is happening to me?" 'cause this was back in 2021. Like, we were still under some kind of lockdown, and this was, like, the first human interaction I had since the pandemic started. And it was just a once in a lifetime experience. You know? We were able to go into the hogan, the prayer hut, and hear the medicine men, you know, chant and welcome her into womanhood. We saw a goat being sacrificed, or killed for dinner. Not sacrificed, killed for dinner. And it was, it was incredible. And then the next day, we recorded these girls, these five girls singing their healing song in the hogan, and then we recorded, this grandmother who, you know, recorded her in her place. And, you know, all of this stuff is, it's in the film, and it's a thread throughout the film. So it's, it is a project I'm quite passionate about, and as soon as there's, some kind of distribution or festival news, I…

48:06Jawad MirYeah

48:06Andrew Kawczynski... I will letting everyone know, because I can't wait for this film to be out there.

48:10Jawad MirSo is this a narrative documentary or a narrative film?

48:14Andrew KawczynskiIt's a feature. It's a feature film, not a documentary.

48:17Jawad MirOkay.

48:18Andrew KawczynskiAnd it's, it's, it's a very artsy style film, kinda like Last Year in Marienbad combined with… ... Modern influences. The director, Adam, he hates talking about influences and what, where he drew from. He's like, "No, this is, this is this. This is yesteryear. This is new, and this is different." so…

48:42Jawad MirWhat's the, what's the name of the film again? Sorry. I can't find it.

48:45Andrew KawczynskiIt's called, it's called The Yester Year.

48:47Jawad MirYester Year, okay.

48:50Andrew KawczynskiYeah.

48:50Jawad MirLet's see. I don't think it's on IMDb yet. Yeah, no, that sounds exciting. I would love to see it, and I obviously see it sounds like a very festival, you know, like SW, S x, W or, what is that thing called? The Robert De Niro Festival in New York, Tribeca.

49:12Andrew KawczynskiTribeca.

49:12Jawad MirYeah. But that's exciting. Good for you. So you're sort of shifting into producing for now a little bit.

49:21Andrew KawczynskiNo, not necessarily. I…

49:22Jawad MirI know how that works. I'm just joking around.

49:25Andrew KawczynskiYeah. I…

49:26Jawad MirI, okay

49:26Andrew Kawczynski... I put a lot of hours into that, into that score, so.

49:30Jawad MirYeah, no, I…

49:30Andrew KawczynskiYeah

49:30Jawad Mir... I know, I know. Well, wonderful, man. That's, that's great. I... Listen, I had a blast talking to you. Thank you so much for your time. I would love to talk to you about, the upcoming film, but before…

49:45Jawad Mir... That, I would love to chat with you maybe one more time in the next couple of months about something else that you feel that you wanna talk about, maybe a compilation…

49:52Andrew KawczynskiOkay

49:52Jawad Mir... Of films that you have worked on, if that's something you're open to.

49:55Andrew KawczynskiYeah. No, absolutely. Yeah. No, I'm, I'm always up for chatting. So, yeah, it was, it was great chatting with you today.

50:03Jawad MirI hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for watching and listening. Don't forget to subscribe, like, share, and comment, and do come back for another episode. Until then, have a great day.