'The Archies', Director, Zoya Akhtar

0:06Jawad MirI'll try to just get to it because we don't have much time. First of all, I've been following your work for a long time. You're one of the few filmmakers whose film I definitely see when they come out, like Spielberg, Vidhu Vinod Chopra, Martin Scorsese…... Farhan Akhtar, yourself. Do it.

0:21Zoya AkhtarI mean, I'm just shocked that you've put me in the same list, but thank you so much. Thank you.

0:25Jawad MirNo, your work is amazing.

0:27Zoya AkhtarThank you so much. Thank you.

0:30Jawad MirGetting to the film The Archies, I resonated with quite a bit, myself, aside from the coming-of-age story, you know, seeing the elements of American Graffiti, Sound of Music, that's my viewing, Rang De Basanti.

0:44Zoya AkhtarRight.

0:44Jawad MirAnd myself being a filmmaker who's done, like, social change films and how it makes an impact, what was the genesis of the film?

0:51Zoya AkhtarI mean, the genesis of the film was like, I'm a, I'm a huge Archie fan. When Netflix, offered this to me, I was like, "Are you kidding?" Like, an Archie movie out of, like, the Indian film industry, and I was like, "Yes, I want to do it, but I need to find some way that I can crack this and get back to you." But the genesis was, for me, it was very important because I'm such a big fan of The Archies, and I was reading it in the early '80s when I was, like, eight and, you know.

1:21Zoya AkhtarIn 1980, I was eight. I was like, I need it to be something that would resonate with my generation, something that would be wrapped in, like, the nostalgia, the simplicity… ... Innocence of it. And at the same time, have something that could resonate with kids today thematically. And I, want to retain that wholesomeness and the Western essence of it because for us, w… it, we grew up in an India that wasn't liberalized. So the only thing American that we had access to was a couple of Hollywood films that released there and Archie Comics. It was our portal to this country. So I wanted to keep that Western element of it, you know, and the wholesomeness. So once we knew what all we wanted to do and then decided to set it in the Anglo-Indian community, I mean, instead of Americana, we Anglified it, set it there, then everything else just happened.

2:18Zoya AkhtarThat was the genesis.

2:20Jawad MirGot it. Thank you so much. Yeah, one thing that I, you know, be… being in the West myself for, you know, most of my life, that's one thing I really appreciated just being, you know, being in the West and how it sort of tells a story of South Asians, but at the same time in the, you know, from an angle of Western, like the production design, the characters, the outfits, everything. And one thing that I really loved about the film, and that's something that's common in every one of your film, everything is genuine. All the relationships, all the performances come across so genuine that you forget that you're watching a film.

2:57Zoya AkhtarOh, thank you.

2:57Jawad MirWhat was your, what was your process... You're welcome. What was your process, in getting these kids together and ma… having them gel? Because it just seemed like they've been together forever.

3:08Zoya AkhtarYeah. I mean, when we cast these kids, one or two of them knew each other from, you know, earlier, but not really very well. We, did, we put them in workshops. We did two acting workshops with just, like, opening up, being comfortable in your body and stuff like that. And then we did one workshop which was m… very in-depth, you know. And, that was, I was part of that entire workshop, and it was, conducted by a gentleman called Atul Mongia who works with actors.

3:44Zoya AkhtarAnd that workshop I think is where the ice broke and everybody became friends because it opened us up in ways where we had to expose ourselves, where we had to speak, where we had to, talk about, things that were very personal, talk about, youth growing up, family, you know. So that, I think everybody kind of exposed a part of themselves, and when you do that in, such a deep way, there's no turning back. You know that person, you care for that person, you have that person's back. And I think once that happened, after that, of course, they went dance class, music class, skating.

4:22Zoya AkhtarThey just had a ball together. Then you spend four months, four and a half months out of town shooting. You're living, breathing. It's a family.

4:30Jawad MirYeah.

4:30Zoya AkhtarSo you just end up getting close, and that just reflects on screen, that camaraderie, you know.

4:36Jawad MirRight. No, that's, that's fantastic. A lot of, a lot of directors, you know, for whatever reason, whether it's production budget and whatnot, don't have that kind of either luxury or at the same time don't, are not able to do that for…

4:48Zoya AkhtarYeah

4:48Jawad Mir... Because they don't see the importance in that, and you do.

4:50Zoya AkhtarYeah.

4:50Jawad MirWhich is, which again, shows on the camera. And the reason I sort of named you among those filmmakers, aside from many other reasons, one thing that I love the way, the use of lenses that you have. Like, you know, whether it's 28, 35.

5:03Jawad MirAnd the coverage that you have, you show your environment, and I'm a huge fan of, you know…

5:07Zoya AkhtarYeah

5:07Jawad Mir... Feeling that environment, and that sucks you in.

5:10Zoya AkhtarYeah.

5:10Jawad MirAnd I really enjoy that. Is that what you use mostly, like, in terms of other than, you know, obviously the traditional lenses? Like, are you mostly…

5:17Zoya AkhtarI don't know

5:17Jawad Mir... On the wider?

5:18Zoya AkhtarYeah, I don't know. I don't take that many close-ups.

5:21Jawad MirYeah. I've noticed that.

5:23Zoya AkhtarI don't know why, but I don't. I mean, in Dil Raahto Hai…

5:25Jawad MirYeah

5:25Zoya Akhtar... I mean, it was deliberate because we were like, "Okay, it's the point of view of the dog." And you know me and my DP, whoever my DP is, I like giving myself visual rules. And that kind of creates a look and a feel for the film. And, DDD, because it was also the point of view of Pluto the dog, we were like, "Let's keep it to the wides and the mids." And we only went close when, you know, when two people are kissing or there's a fight and they're this close, but otherwise, no. But as a habit, I don't really go close. I find it claustrophobic. I don't know why.

5:55Jawad MirI agree with you

5:57Zoya AkhtarI just have a wider lenses. But with this film I think I work with Niko Tsangaris, the DP. And, it was also, the lensing was also very important because of the period. You know, I mean, the audience won't pick it up, but subliminally you get a feeling.

6:12Zoya AkhtarAnd it's, like, you know, photography and films from the, like, '50s and '60s and, there was, the camera work was, very wide, very full body… ... Figures. Not that much movement, very classic taking. You know, very slow move, camera moves only when it needs to. So we use that, you know, and the pace is, there's no hecticity. There's no handheld happening. It was all very classic and we moved, you know, you kept the pace. Time stood still. And, we went with that approach to it. We a… we used Signature Primes lenses…

6:46Zoya Akhtar... Which give a beautiful, like, kind of like a magical quality. He also created stuff to give it that kind of slightly softer feel with it, you know?

6:55Jawad MirYes. Yeah.

6:55Zoya AkhtarThings we use. And, I also referenced, you know, even the comic. When you look at the comic, the paneling of the comic, the framing. There's a lot of full body. You see Betty and Veronica walking down the park and it's like a full body frame of them, you know? And one of our biggest, I think one of my, I reference photography and art more than, I don't reference movies. And I think one of my big references was an artist called Norman Rockwell.

7:23Jawad MirOkay.

7:23Zoya AkhtarHe used to be a cartoonist, for an American newspaper, and he then, I mean, is an artist now because his work was amazing.

7:31Jawad MirRight.

7:31Zoya AkhtarAnd so detailed and so telling and so, there was such humor and irony in his work. And if you see his work, so I reference that a lot and it's all a lot of full body stuff, and it gives you a vintage feel, you know?

7:44Jawad MirRight.

7:44Zoya AkhtarWhich we do without being obvious. So yeah, it matters how you lens it.

7:50Jawad MirYeah, no, true. So true. What was the biggest challenge on this, film, whether it was, you know, during production or post-production or pre-production? Anything that you remember that you had to overcome?

8:01Zoya AkhtarYeah, the weather.

8:01Jawad MirI mean... Sorry?

8:03Zoya AkhtarThe weather. The weather was very challenging because we were in, we were shooting in the hills.

8:09Jawad MirOkay.

8:09Zoya AkhtarAnd the hills are like sun now, cloud now, sun now, cloud now.

8:13Jawad MirAh.

8:13Zoya AkhtarSo we had to be, yeah, we had to be prepared for, exterior. When the sun is out, we run out to shoot. If the sun's not out and it rains or there's cloudy, we have to go in and, you know, the lights had to be set up. It was, the weather was, it just was, a nightmare. But, yeah. But it is what it is.

8:31Jawad MirWait, were you on schedule though in terms of production? Did you meet the, or were you over a couple of days or weeks?

8:37Zoya AkhtarOver a couple of…

8:38Jawad MirI mean, it's, yeah.

8:39Zoya AkhtarYeah.

8:39Jawad MirIt happens. The…

8:39Zoya AkhtarYeah

8:39Jawad Mir... These things are normal.

8:41Zoya AkhtarYeah.

8:41Jawad MirOne thing that I noticed in all of your films, and, i… is there is always this element of class. You know, whether it was Gully Boy, whether it was, Dil Dhadakne Do, Zindagi Milegi Na Dobara. I… i… is that, like, you know, the rich and the powerful or if you wanna call that, right? Like, and versus, like, an a… average person.

9:04Jawad MirIs that something that you just kind of naturally comes out of you or is that something more of a relevance to your own life that you have seen around you growing up?

9:11Zoya AkhtarI think it's the world. It's the world. You just can't ignore it. I mean, it's, that's what it is.

9:16Jawad MirBut you, but you put it out in a very personal way, I find. Maybe I'm, I'm looking into it too much. I just find it comes…

9:22Zoya AkhtarNo, I think I grew up in

9:22Jawad Mir... Very natural

9:24Zoya AkhtarYeah, I grew up in, Bombay, Mumbai. And I think, I come, I'm, I've had a lot of privilege in my life. I come from privilege, but, a… and I have friends that have come, that are like way, have bigger lives than mine, you know? And, friends that don't, that came from nothing.

9:48Zoya Akhtar... We went to a school that had all kinds of kids in it, you know? I studied in college with all kinds of kids from all kinds of backgrounds, you know? So I went to people's homes that were mansions and then people's homes that, you know, they had one bedroom and one room…

10:04Zoya Akhtar... And their family lived there. So, I mean, I have, when you, when y… you, I've see, I've, I've experienced all that in a way. You could be in a huge high-rise and you'd have a slum right next to you know? And it's constantly rubbing, against each other. There are people working very closely with you in India. There are people in your, staff…

10:25Zoya Akhtar... Work in your home. It's practically your family. You know, people you trust with your home house keys. A… and they, th… they're like family. They're in and out of your homes and their lives are completely different from yours. And, of course you talk to them. Of course you know what they…

10:41Zoya Akhtar... They are. You know what they make because you're paying them. You, so you have, you unders… you have an understanding of it. So it's, it's a very big reality in my life and, I'm, I'm very comfortable, either way, you know? And I want to tell stories in, set in any milieu, you know?

11:01Zoya Akhtar... When I make a love stories and it's about a middle-class family and about a boy who's, like, living in this apartment and he hasn't even done it up, and it's a big deal that he's got this apartment. And, you know, so I, you, I, that's what I do. I'm a, I'm a, I mean, I'm a sociology student and a literature…

11:19Jawad MirRight

11:19Zoya Akhtar... You know, that's what I do. I want to dabble into different worlds and then get that world point, my job is to be as authentic…

11:26Jawad Mir100%

11:27Zoya Akhtar... As possible in whatever, space I dabble in. So if I'm working and my character lives in Dharavi, I'm gonna spend that time in Dharavi. Or if I'm going to write about, people in, Dil Dhadakne Do, then I will take my time and I will spend time in Delhi and I will meet industrialist's homes and, look at how they live and their lifestyle. That's what I do. And I enjoy it, and I don't wanna be stuck in any one particular zone. I want to make films…

11:56Jawad MirRight

11:56Zoya Akhtar... Whoever interests me, you know?

11:59Jawad MirRight. No, and that's one thing, you know, specifically about Devdas actually though was that you have these, you know, lavish, filthy rich characters.

12:07Zoya AkhtarYeah.

12:07Jawad MirBut somehow that didn't overpower the relationships. I mean, one of the scenes that I've seen in that film over and over again is when the, all four of them in a room and Anil Kapoor's character is on the bed and, you know, he says…

12:19Zoya AkhtarYeah

12:19Jawad Mir... "Let's talk. Well, let's talk in depth. Like, why do we always talk in surface?" Like, that's a South Asian, you know, thing that we always talk on the s… It's such a well-executed scene. It's so natural.

12:28Zoya AkhtarThank you.

12:29Jawad MirYou know.

12:29Zoya AkhtarI mean, but look at the four actors I had.

12:32Jawad MirYeah. It makes a difference.

12:33Zoya AkhtarI mean, look at the actors.

12:33Jawad MirBut at the same time, you have to have…

12:34Zoya AkhtarBut they're another level. You know what I mean?

12:36Jawad MirWhen you look at... I agree with you, but even, you know, coming to this film, these are, like, you know, more or less…

12:42Zoya AkhtarYeah

12:42Jawad Mir... Newbies. W… and one, you know, th… there was these little moments like the thank you thing. You know? Like, I remember, like, you know, when…

12:48Zoya AkhtarYeah

12:48Jawad Mir... When you were a kid, y… you say tho… you always mock one person.

12:51Zoya AkhtarI know.

12:51Jawad MirLike, one of your... Right? And that stuff was really cool. What was one scene on the set that made everybody emotional or yourself that you came out better than you expected it would?

13:03Zoya AkhtarOh, the one scene that made everybody emotional on a set I think that came out, there were a couple of scenes, and some were emo… I think there was Archie with his father, in the travel agency. I think that scene kind of moved people, you know, that we didn't expect it to in the way. I think the Betty, Archie kissing on the doorstep. I think that kind of felt something. I think the two girls, Betty, Veronica

13:32Jawad MirYeah

13:32Zoya Akhtar... In the bedroom. I think that scene where she confesses. So there were many scenes where you were like... You know, and I think the reprise, the Suno reprise, the carol. I think that really moved people. And the end, Archie singing in the park.

13:50Jawad MirRight. Right.

13:51Zoya AkhtarYeah. I think those scenes…

13:52Jawad MirYeah

13:53Zoya Akhtar... Were pretty moving. Yeah.

13:54Jawad MirI think, I think one scene that got me by surprise was the scene when, Ronnie and Betty were, you know, talking to each other about what they had done, what one or the other di…

14:03Zoya AkhtarYeah.

14:03Jawad MirThe way you executed that, I was not expecting it to go in that direction. Like, it was just…

14:08Zoya AkhtarRight

14:08Jawad Mir... Done so beautifully. I'll, I'll just have two more…

14:11Zoya AkhtarEven the Dilton Reggie. Everybody loved the Dilton Reggie scene, I have to say. In the bedroom.

14:16Jawad MirYeah.

14:16Zoya AkhtarYeah. That scene.

14:16Jawad MirThat was, that was really well executed too.

14:18Zoya AkhtarYeah.

14:18Jawad MirAnd it, and you know, it, less is more, and you know how to pull that off, like, by not talking about anything in particular, but you know what they're being, what's being discussed, and that's what I really appreciate. I mean, as a storyteller, you know what I, exactly what I'm saying. That, you know, you talk about things without saying much. Even the scene when, Ronnie comes after seeing his Da… her dad, and Betty sees her from far and they, instead of…

14:41Zoya AkhtarYeah

14:41Jawad Mir... Having a conversation, they h… run towards each other and hug each other, and that's it. You know, it says so much. I know you have to go, so I have two more questions.

14:49Zoya AkhtarYes, please.

14:49Jawad MirHow, h… how much were you involved, I'm sure you were, in the production design on the given, not on the given day, but in the pre-production to make sure everything comes out the way, you know, you want it to come?

15:02Zoya AkhtarYou know, I work with Suzanne Meryun… Meranje. She's, she's a genius. And if she ever, decides to retire, I have no idea what I'm gonna do. I love her. So I, and Poonam Rathod Singh, who did the costumes. Basically I think what we work together with is what is the tone we wanna go with, what is, what is this world we are creating, what is this about, you know? And for me, I operate from a space where I have to have the film in one word, you know? I need to find that word for the film. Like, with Gully Boy, it was class, you know?

15:41Zoya AkhtarAnd I can give Suzanne that or I can tell her, like, for me, Archie was idealism, you know? It's kind of a lost idealism, and I wanted the film to feel like a hug because when I look back at Archie Comics, it was like a hug, you know?

15:55Zoya AkhtarIt's a feeling. It's not like it wasn't a narrative that you were stuck to. It was a feeling that you were held onto, you know? And when I tell her that, she can take that and fly with it. You know what I mean?

16:09Jawad MirAbsolutely.

16:10Zoya AkhtarClass. Like, say with Class, what she did was, all the architecture that we used in Gully Boy, besides the slum of course, was brutalist architecture, all of it. It was all government buildings, spaces that he would be allowed into, you know, where a character like him can enter. The hospital, the school, the college. You know, these are the spaces he can enter. And the places that he can't enter were white and pristine. They were clean. There was something that he felt if he touched would, he would soil.

16:41Zoya AkhtarWhether it was skies or... So these are very subliminal things, but they matter, you know? We both hate the color blue, in, that plastic blue in Mumbai which, you know, you use, so we just took it out of the film, you know?

16:55Zoya AkhtarSo it's, so, you know, those kind of things. So for me, when I told her production-wise I want it to be a storybook, I want it to be, true to, Anglo India, like Hill Station India. So we, shot it in Ooty. The colonial architecture exists.

17:10Zoya AkhtarWe had enough, things to replicate the buildings. You know, Shimla, Town Square, Makal Sky Ganj Town Square, Landour. What the architecture was, we replicated some of it and we shot in some of it, and, a storybook aesthetic because that's easier on the eye than a comic book, you know?

17:29Jawad MirRight.

17:30Zoya AkhtarTwo hours. And taking a bit of that, but idealism, you know? So all, everything is green. Everything is pretty. Everything is just right. Like, it's just easy on the eye.

17:45Jawad MirRight.

17:45Zoya AkhtarIn that second ideal world, like I wanna live here, you know? That feeling.

17:50Jawad MirAnd that's what one of the things I really loved. I mean, this year, one film that did really incredible with critics and box office in Hollywood is Barbie. You know?

17:57Zoya AkhtarYeah.

17:57Jawad MirAside from, aside from everything, I feel the reason it clicked with audience, because it was just so full of color and life. And your film pretty much does something similar. Like, you know, instead of like having dark undertones or grays or blacks, you know, highlights, like just kind of like a monotone kind of David Fincher type of feel. It just pops out and people…

18:15Zoya AkhtarYeah

18:15Jawad Mir... Want that. And one comment and then, one last question. The idea of idealism in this film is very interesting because, you know, it sets in the '60s how they had to go with these petitions, and now we live in a very different world…

18:29Zoya AkhtarYes

18:29Jawad Mir... You know, where ev… everything is online. And I thought that was pretty cool that how…

18:34Zoya AkhtarYeah

18:34Jawad Mir... You know, you have to do in-person stuff…

18:37Zoya AkhtarYeah

18:37Jawad Mir... As just doing online, just signing petitions and hoping for something to happen.

18:42Zoya AkhtarYeah.

18:42Jawad MirSo I thought that was really well done. Lastly, I read somewhere, maybe it was a press release, that you are working on the documentary on Salim-Javed. Is that correct?

18:52Zoya AkhtarYes. Yes, that is correct.

18:54Jawad MirI cannot wait to see that. I'm a huge fan of your father's work.

18:58Zoya AkhtarYes.

18:58Jawad MirI've been listening to him since the '80s.

19:00Zoya AkhtarOh, I'll tell him. I'll tell him.

19:01Jawad MirHe…

19:01Zoya AkhtarThe…

19:02Jawad MirHuge fan of…

19:02Zoya AkhtarI'm producing it. We're producing it with Excel, Tiger Baby and Excel.

19:06Jawad MirYeah.

19:06Zoya AkhtarAnd, you know, I mean, there hasn't been any two men like them before…

19:11Jawad MirNo

19:11Zoya Akhtar... And I don't think there are coming after. And, they needed to be documented, you know? They just needed to be put on tape because they're also, like, aging and they just needed to…

19:21Jawad MirYeah

19:21Zoya Akhtar... I was just like, "Man, we have to..." Like, they're just, they're just, they're, they're just very cool men, you know? It just had to be done.

19:29Jawad MirThey are. And I, you know, I'm a documentary filmmaker myself and I'm so glad that you're not making a narrative, which you can at some point later on…

19:36Zoya AkhtarYeah

19:36Jawad Mir... But I'm glad that you're actually putting them in front of the camera, which is…

19:40Zoya AkhtarYeah

19:40Jawad Mir... Gonna be remarkable.

19:41Zoya AkhtarIt's necessary.

19:41Jawad MirWhen is, when is that supposed to come out? Do you have any idea? Is it…

19:43Zoya AkhtarI think it'll be co… I think it'll be coming out sometime next year.

19:47Jawad MirOkay

19:47Zoya Akhtar... Early next year. By before mid-next year it should be out.

19:50Jawad MirOn a…

19:50Zoya AkhtarYeah

19:50Jawad Mir... Streaming platform or you don't know yet?

19:52Zoya AkhtarWe don't know yet. We don't know.

19:54Jawad MirOkay. Well, I'm…

19:54Zoya AkhtarI think we funded it, we made it, now we see what happens. And it's also…

19:58Jawad MirWell, I'm looking f…

19:59Zoya Akhtar... With Salman

19:59Jawad MirWhat?

20:00Zoya AkhtarSo it's three producers, it's Salman, Excel and me, Tiger Baby.

20:06Jawad MirFarhan is not involved?

20:07Zoya AkhtarFarhan is Excel.

20:09Jawad MirOh, right. Okay. I…

20:10Zoya AkhtarYeah. Farhan and Ritesh Excel

20:11Jawad MirI

20:11Zoya Akhtar... Reemant and then Salman Khan Productions. That's him

20:14Jawad Mir... I love his, new talent of writing dialogues now, especially in Zindagi Na Milegi Dobara. Like, his…

20:19Zoya AkhtarYeah

20:20Jawad Mir... He's obviously following his dad's footstep. Incredible stuff. I'm looking forward to that film, and I really would love to chat…

20:25Zoya AkhtarThank you

20:25Jawad Mir... With you next year when it comes out because I am…

20:28Zoya AkhtarYes

20:28Jawad Mir... A huge fan of Salim-Javed

20:29Zoya Akhtar... Thank you. Thank you. I'd love to, I'd love to, talk about that when that happens.

20:33Jawad MirPerfect.

20:34Zoya AkhtarThank you.

20:34Jawad MirThank you so much, Zoya.

20:35Zoya AkhtarThank you.

20:35Jawad MirTake care.

20:36Zoya AkhtarBye-bye.

20:36Jawad MirBye-bye. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for watching and listening. Don't forget to subscribe, like, share, and comment, and do come back for another episode. Until then, have a great day.