'Terminator: Dark Fate' and it's World, Art Director, Sonja Klaus

0:00Sonja KlausAnd it was like Arn… Arnold was completely like, you know, 'cause it, 'cause he was on my list, and Linda Hamilton was on my list, and I got two for one. And I was like... I c… I almost couldn't believe it, and I had to keep... I kept touching Linda, and she's going, and she's going, "Honey, I know how you just like to cuddle me all the time." And I was like, "I can't help it, Linda. I just can't, I can't believe that you're standing in front of me. I just can't believe you're there." And I said, "I just can't believe…" "Well, honey, I am."

0:43Jawad MirGood afternoon, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Kingdom of Dreams podcast, the making of stories. I'm your host Jawad Mir. Today, my guest is Sonja Klaus, who I've had the pleasure of having on this podcast a couple of times. Once for Gladiator, and once for, American Gangster, and she's the art director on the film that we're gonna talk about today, Terminator: Dark Fate, starring Linda Hamilton and Arnold Schwarzenegger. And she talked about a lot of different things in terms of the art direction of the film, including the famous highway sequence. Lovely talking to her as usual, so without further ado, here is my conversation with Sonja Klaus, art director of Terminator: Dark Fate. I, saw Terminator: Dark Fate when it came out. I can't belie… I thought it was 10 years ago. It's actually six years ago when it came out. Six, seven years probably. You probably worked on it for seven years or eight years, and I quite enjoyed it, but, I just saw it again just before w… our call began, and I absolutely loved it. And then I was watching it from a production design standpoint because it's one of those films that even in today's time, when I say today, I mean also 2019 because not too long ago.

1:47Jawad MirLike, there were a lot of…

1:49Sonja KlausYes

1:49Jawad Mir... There were a lot of physical locations, like actual locations. I mean, obviously there was VFX and everything, but it was probably since Terminator 2 or maybe even Terminator 3, it was one of those Terminator films or action films that had a lot of practical action, especially like the highway sequence. I mean, that was just insane. I don't know how the hell that was pulled off.

2:10Sonja KlausThat was actually... Well, yeah, that was... So when we started the film, for me there were two quite important things to get right. One was the special effects, and one was the visual effects, and the special effects along with mi… making that merge properly in with the stunts, which was the vehicles. So with that one that you saw when she was driving, a lot of that was real. And it was done with incredible... I mean, we had an incredible team. Graham Kelly, who is probably in the world, I'd have to say, is probably the greatest, stunt, vehicle, I think... Ugh, sorry. Beg your pardon.

2:58Jawad MirIt's okay.

2:58Sonja KlausHi, Ellie. And the same when we go to the Waldorf. Oh, okay, fine. So I'm meeting you... Okay, so can you text me and tell me where I'm meeting you? Will you text me and I'll meet you there? But I'm gonna aim for 7:30, right? Is that fine? Okay. Okay, I'll see you later. Bye. Sorry. I'm going to the thing tonight, and I can't make the screening. I didn't wanna go to the screening. I'm a bit drained, so I need to have a little bit of a... And I'm going to this party tonight, and it starts at 8:30, and they wanted me to get there at, like, 4:00 today, and I was like, "I can't go from 4:00 until midnight with all the... I just can't." It's, it's…

3:47Jawad MirYeah, it's too much

3:48Sonja Klaus... I, it's, I don't, I don't want to do that much social. I… that's, and it's all socializing, and it's all like, "Ah, gimme..." And I don't wanna do it. Anyway, I sidetracked. I'm so sorry. I had to take that 'cause I had to find out how we get in, 'cause I didn't know.

4:01Jawad MirNo, it's okay. It's okay.

4:02Sonja KlausDo we have to have a wristband or show a thing or... So that was my friend who's coming with me. Anyway, with going back to it, so Graham Kelly is probably in the world, I'd say that he's probably one of the greatest action vehicle coordinators in the world. I mean, you watch Mission Impossible, you watch all those things, that's, that's Graham.

4:21Sonja KlausAnd Graham is quite brilliant at not only designing the stunt, and so when I say that, you know, there are obviously stunt arrangers as well. We had an amazing stunt arranger, Phil. And you know, that's to do with the body and the motion, but it's also to do with, you know, how the car is driven. We had this unbelievable woman that came. I am telling you now, I literally couldn't... I was, I was... She, in the world, I got told, in the world she's the greatest female stunt driver in the world. Oh my God. She had to go round a come with this, that truck. She had to come down, hurtling down, and we were on streets in s… you know, filming it in Spain, and part of it in Spain. And she came, and she had to come down at speed in this truck, and she drove that thing. And she had to turn it literally almost o… back on itself. Every…

5:18Jawad MirWow

5:18Sonja Klaus... And open the door at the same time. All at the sa… this motion where she had to, like... You know, she did it. I stood there and watched, and Graham told me where to stand. He said, "If you stand at..." You know, 'cause he obviously is, the safety aspect is very high on those sorts of things. Every single time that she went round that corner, she literally hit the same spot. I... And if you saw her, she got out, she's, like, 5'2" and must have weighed about 95 pounds. You know, and you're like... She was awesome. And then all of the stuff on the freeway, you know, that was quite an involved... That involved everybody. You know, I had to make, So, you know, everyone always thinks that you just turn up, don't they? They think you just rock up and you just start driving down a thing. They have no idea. There were wires involved and flip things and, you know, they had to…

6:15Jawad MirFor sure

6:15Sonja Klaus... You know, and they put small explosives and things, as you well know, to flip things over and they have a wire. They drill massive hooks into the ground, and they have big wire rigs so they can stop everything, and they can pull it, and they can tip things, you know, and it's done with a big wire rig, and when I say big wire rig, oh, they're big. You don… y… well, it would slice b… your body in. You couldn't... You can't go near it. And so all of that was done because I think it was, you know, James Cameron was very much kind of like... 'cause it was his last one, you know, this was the last one that he produced, and I think it... And Arnold, you know, there was a lot of comment, and Tim, you know, wanted this, the realness. And I think we all did too because that's all part of Terminator, isn't it? That sort of…

7:00Jawad MirYeah

7:01Sonja Klaus... There's elements of it where it has to be so real because let's be honest, how do you know that's not gonna happen? You know, Terminator is one of those films, isn't it, that's like, ooh, it… we're getting a bit close to that now, aren't we, with all the AI and all the…

7:16Jawad MirYeah

7:17Sonja Klaus... We're edging…

7:17Jawad Mir100%

7:18Sonja Klaus... We're edging in that world there now, and, you know, all the vehicles, you know, like when the vehicle smashes into the wall and, you know, all of th… that stuff, all of that has to be built. You can't just smash into a wall, you know, so there was an awful lot of builds, that had to be done, and constructed, and conversations, and, you know, how high is the pavement? How long is the pavement? What is the wall made out of? And it's got to be believable when it smashes. It can't look like polystyrene, you know, and you're taking out, you know, when they're driving through the market thing, you know, the, we didn't want it to be just like any old thing. We were like, we wanted to smash into, like, proper big stands, you know, where you have sell, like, you know, proper big metal kind of things. So all of that has to be discussed, you know?

8:08Jawad MirYeah.

8:09Sonja KlausAnd then there's all the other stuff that's happening, all the spear throwing, all the, you know, all of that, and you've got this pretend black gooey thing, which is a stuntman in a green suit, you know, and it was... And I think that bit was quite brilliant. It took quite some time. It was really hard to find the road, to be honest, 'cause finding a big road, is not as simple as you think in Europe, closing down a big road like that. That happened to be a new piece of road that was built. It was a toll road in Spain that hadn't been opened yet.

8:43Sonja KlausYou know, bec… we're taking up many miles 'cause you have to understand, we need quite a length.

8:49Jawad MirYeah.

8:49Sonja KlausIt's not a few feet. It's, it's a big chunk, you know. And the same bit when she arrives, when Linda arrives, and she says, "I'll be back." You know, that was a whole other section, and I had to build a lot of stuff for that because we, you know, we had the car b… all the explosions and... And it was kinda constant. You know, when you're, when you're doing something that big it's, it's constant. I mean, I've never bought so much bloody K-rail in my life, you know? It's like, and plants and, like, trying to work out how to fill up the middle reservation, you know, with stunt mats, but make it look real, and it doesn't wobble. You know, you're like, "Ugh." So it's quite, it was qui… and it's hot, you know. Let's not forget it's hot in Spain.

9:29Jawad MirYeah. No, I... Like I said earlier, I mean, it... Because James Cameron was involved it was so practical. Actually, speaking of that, I just, I may have known this, but I had forgotten. In Terminator 2 there was a sequence, where there's a helicopter chase and, at the end, and the helicopter goes underneath the bridge on the highway, which…

9:50Sonja KlausYes

9:50Jawad Mir... It never hit me, like, how did they do that? Like, was it VFX? Like, it's just kinda like, okay, it's a Terminator movie, so it's there. So I heard James Cameron talking about that how nobody wanted to do this. Like, it was too dangerous, but the pilot who was flying the helicopter, he said, "Okay, James. Jim, I'll do it." And so that was a real helicopter chasing a truck…

10:12Sonja KlausYeah. It was that

10:12Jawad Mir... Underneath a bridge on the highway.

10:13Sonja KlausMark. I think it was Mark Wolf.

10:15Jawad MirOkay. Yeah. I don't know the name of the gentleman.

10:17Sonja KlausMark's retired. Mark's retired now, but it would, it was... I think that was Mark Wolf. 'cause there's very few people that would have the guts to do that.

10:27Jawad MirYeah. And that sim… there was a lot of si… I wouldn't say similar, but inspired sequences in Terminator: Dark Fate that…

10:33Sonja KlausOh, like you think Top Gun, or, but also if you think about, like, they nicked that idea in Top Gun, didn't they, when they fly the plane through that bridge, and they tilt it and go through.

10:41Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

10:42Sonja KlausIt was like that.

10:42Jawad MirYeah.

10:42Sonja KlausJames Cameron already did that.

10:44Jawad MirYeah. Ah. I don't know how that's done. I mean, that's like, it's crazy. That's why, that's why people like watching…

10:50Sonja KlausMad

10:50Jawad Mir... Those kind of things.

10:51Sonja KlausWell, yeah.

10:51Jawad MirNo, I know, but still, it's, it's dangerous, right? But people, that's entertainment.

10:56Sonja KlausYeah. Very dangerous.

10:59Jawad MirWhat was the most,.. I mean, there's so many sequences in Terminator, and it, the film sort of travels through different locations. You know, there was the factory in the beginning and the end, and there was the highway sequence that we talked about, then there was the detention center. Any kind of particular stories at any of those locations that you had the most challenge?

11:22Sonja KlausSo the, factory that you saw where the big fight was, that was a build on stage. We did a few shots. We did some shooting in the Mercedes-Benz factory, and then I photographed and copied. I had to take a l… we had to take a lot of photos, and we had to build a whole section on the stages in Hungary of the car factory, including the things moving along. So, you know, we had track, and we had... 'Cause it's like a moving conveyor belt in a car factory. I don't think I've ever been. And all the rigging and stuff and all the columns and everything, that was all a build on a stage. I mean, the guy that did the rigging for me I will say was quite something. I mean, he was phenomenal 'cause it was lay… it's layers and layers in a car factory. It's not just one layer.

12:08Jawad MirRight.

12:08Sonja KlausIt's many layers as you look up. And you have to get the floor and you gotta match it exactly. So when she's doing that fight and she's sitting in with the chains and everything, that's on stage as a build. That's not in any location. And then when they go into the detention center, that was actually a car wareho… car, phone warehouse that was completely empty. And I had to build all of that stuff inside it, all the fencing and all the cages and all the everything, and build it inside for that sequence. And the whole, when he jumps through at the beginning and goes through the barriers, those were all built in. They weren't there. Most of the sets, I'd have to say, on it were built. We had a few locations, like the exterior of the motel. That was a shitty shack, and I had to suddenly, like, landscape it and build all that thing and put that big motel sign in and everything and make it out of this absolute, like, literally falling apart building.

13:09Sonja KlausBut it was perfect for saying that we were in Mexico. Same with the train, doing the whole train. We had to go and find that train track. And there was a bit of a building that was there, but then I had to get the roof all repaired, and then, you know, then you add all the stuff to it, like all the painting on the side and, you know, you've got extras sitting on top, so you have to make... I had to, we had to make special rigs to sit on the top of the trains, 'cause sitting on top of a train, you can't just plop yourself or an actor on the top of the train. So we had to make, I had to get these rigs made that were almost invisible that you couldn't see for them to sit on, to hold onto, 'cause they were strapped down because the train was moving. So, you know, all of that, you don't, you don't notice it 'cause it looks like they're just casually sitting there. But they had little anchors. You know, they were clipped on 'cause they're actors. But the other people weren't clipped on. They just had to sit there you know?

14:06Jawad MirYeah.

14:06Sonja KlausAnd so, you know, lots of stuff like that. The whole of the, you know, at the end, that was all a build on stage, the bit at the end when they go to the dam. The a… we actually shot in the Aldeia Nova Dam, which is in Portugal. We did some sh… some, plates there, and then I had to build a section of dam on the back str… on the back lot of, Lot Studios. Had to build this massive... I mean, it was enormous, 'cause the car was dangling and smacking, and so that was all built with massive tip tanks. And, you know, I mean, and all the stuff when they, when they're in the water and they come out, that was all... You know, that was in a tank. Then I, then I built the side of the, had to build the side of the riverbed with all the concrete slabs and everything. That was a build. I mean, I think the blending was done really well, you know, 'cause obviously when I'm doing the drawings, like the exterior of the pump station when they run in, that was a build. And all the, you know, all of that. So, but I can only build to so much.

15:09Sonja KlausI can't... You know, I can't... I mean, the height of the inside of a turbine hall is 150 feet. Well, I mean, I'm not gonna build a 150-foot high set. So I just give them 30 feet or 35 feet, and then with the design, you know, I say, "This is the rest of it," you know, 'cause I have it heavily concepted, and then within the concept, a line is drawn, as you know, which shows what's then is gonna be green screen or blue screen.

15:39Jawad MirYeah.

15:40Sonja KlausAnd a line is drawn saying, "I'm gonna give you this much." I would say I didn't get a lot of help from the... You don't get a lot of help. You don't have the visual effects supervisor sitting next to you every day while you're thinking of it and designing it and concepting it. Y… you know, you're, you're kind of left to your own, and then you have to present. You know, you have to present. And of course you present, and you know what that's like. They're like, "You've made all the effort," and they sit there and go, "No, I wouldn't have done it like that," you know? It's that. There was a bit of that. But you rise above that, don't you? And you go, "Okay. Well, let's do it your way now then. I've spent two weeks doing it my way, which you didn't like, which, oh, I, by the way, will end up doing it like that anyway."

16:29Jawad MirYeah.

16:29Sonja KlausYou know what, like, you know what people are like.

16:31Jawad MirYeah.

16:31Sonja KlausYou know what they're like. They don't come up with any ideas themselves, but the minute you do, they're like, "Oh, no, I wouldn't have done it like that." "Oh, well, I'd love to hear how you would've done it then."

16:39Jawad MirYeah. No, it's true. It's, it's true at every stage of any kind of production. It's like everybody has this idea, but they may not even have been on a set or know even how to operate anything, and, "Oh, we should do it this way." "Okay, well, let's do it." And then, like you said, it's like, "Oh, we don't know. You tell us," right? It's a, it's just…

16:58Sonja KlausYeah

16:58Jawad Mir... It, there is this authority, there is this sense of power that they wanna throw out, that, "Oh, I know what I'm doing even though I don't, just to put it out there."

17:07Sonja KlausNo, I do find... I mean, I've never been that person, I'll be honest, and if I don't know something, I will always ask because I ask mostly for myself because I want to learn, because I want to know. I wanna learn. Otherwise... And if I don't ask, I'm never gonna learn, am I? If I just, if I always think that I'm always the one that has the answer to the, to everything, and it's not possible. But I do feel that entitlement is quite a word that, in the film industry can be heavily used against many individuals, you know? But I've never had... I mean, I'm doing something now where I'm literally doing everything, and I'm exhausted. My back aches. I've never... I've lifted so much furniture. I've picked up crap. I've, I've done, you know, everything: painting, gardening. I've done a bit of graphics. I've had to, like, dress every set. I've chosen all the props.

18:07Sonja KlausAnd I have got people. Oh, don't think I don't have people, but they're terribly busy themselves and exhausted. I, oh, okay. I can't wait for you to tell me why you're exhausted. And the thing is, I don't... I'm telling you this now, but I don't go, I don't go to work and go, "Oh, I'm so amazing. Look what I did." I mean, today…

18:31Jawad MirYeah

18:31Sonja Klaus... Before I came back to you, before I came back to you, I dressed six sets today. Six sets. And it's not a cup and a table, I did full, big sets today. I did six of them. So each one took me, a set, to dress a set for me, if the props are all laid out and I don't have to unpack the props, which I also had to do today, and I also chose all the props, and all the furniture, and I sorted out the construction, it probably takes me 30 minutes. But I don't like anybody…

19:04Jawad MirYeah

19:04Sonja Klaus... Me when I'm doing it, I gotta be honest. I don't want anyone... They all have to get out of my way. And I need, like, five minutes, I need couple of minutes to just go, "Okay, ready," 'cause I have to compose myself, and then I'm off.

19:17Jawad MirYeah.

19:17Sonja KlausAnd I learned that from Ridley, because when you work with Ridley, you c… u… there's no th… you don't, you can't think. You can think, but you've gotta think in a split second, and you can't be deliberating like, "Oh."

19:33Sonja KlausYou can't be any... There's none of that. And I mean, I don't think I did too badly, but it's because it's like, it was like Terminator. I didn't... You know, everyone kept saying to me, "Oh, it's a big film. Big film." And I'm like, "Is it?" And I didn't mean that in a kind of facetious sort of way. I was like, "Is it?" And I was like, "Not really, it's a detention center, there's a this, there's this, there's this, there's this, there's this." There isn't anything that you can't get a reference for or go and look at it or get some information or... There wasn't, it wasn't like it was rare. It wasn't like I was doing, you know, 16, 1562 and the Siege of Malta b… with Suleiman the Great. A little bit more tricky. You know, it was, it was almost present day.

20:18Jawad MirYeah.

20:19Sonja KlausYou know, the future stuff, yes, that was another thing because that was, that was quite interesting how that transpired. I was expecting that to have all been kinda thought through a little bit, but, the whole kind of c… person, you know, the whole Terminator was being designed as we were filming, and I was having pictures sent to me of, "Oh, what do you think of this?" And I was like, "De… God, I'd have thought you'd have done that ages ago." Thinking about whether he's black, shiny metal or whether he's pink. I was like, "My God, don't you do that?" I mean, that's like, he's like the me… like, he's the dude. And it was like Ar… Arnold was, he was actually... You know, all of that whole thing of... I mean, I will tell you that I think I told you this before that, I mean, I just was completely like... You know, 'cause it, 'cause he was on my list, and Linda Hamilton was on my list, and I got two for one.

21:20Sonja KlausAnd I was like, I c… I almost couldn't believe it, and I had to keep... I kept touching Linda and she's going, and she's going, "Honey, I know how you just like to cuddle me all the time." And I was like, "I can't help it, Linda. I just can't, I can't believe that you're standing in front of me. I just can't believe you're there." And I said, "I just can't believe..." "Well, honey, I am."

21:45Jawad MirWell, she, I mean, it's, she hasn't done a lot of films, but Sarah Connor, I mean, is such an iconic character.

21:52Sonja KlausShe's done a lot of films, you're absolutely right. But can I tell you about her? If she rang me now and said, "Look, honey, shall we go to the south of France for two weeks? I'm staying at a friend's house and you can come and swim, as long as you say nothing about me smoking." And I'd be like, "I'll come now. Pack my bag now."

22:09Jawad MirYeah.

22:09Sonja KlausTo go and hang with her. She... You know, the funny thing is about her, she's not movie star-y at all.

22:16Jawad MirYeah.

22:16Sonja KlausAnd she reads a lot of books. So whilst we were on Terminator, I think she read, I think she read over 50 books she told me that she'd read while we were doing the filming. Very avid reader. And I said to her, "Do you do yoga?" "…" I said, "So do you, like, run, like?" "…" Like that. And I was totally amazed, 'cause like, she's got like a washboard stomach, and she smokes and drinks, like, not like a fish, but you know, she doesn't... And I thought she'd be like all zen-y and kind of like yoga-y and... No. No. And she loves her kid. She's great with her kid. She's hilarious with her kid. She gets him on the phone, she goes, "Honey, look, it's Sonia. It's Sonia. Honey, look, say hi to Sonia. Sonia, say hi."

23:07Jawad MirOh, that's awesome.

23:07Sonja KlausAnd Ar… and Arnold is just... He is, like, I couldn't get enough of him. And, you know, I, he's Austrian, I'm half German, and, he loved the fact that I was called Sonia and my sister was called Heidi. "There are two of you?" And I was like, "Yeah, there are two of us." And he said, "Will you wear your lederhosen or your dirndl?" Like this, and I was going, "I'll wear whatever you like. I will put my dirndl on." Oh. I mean, he was, he is ch… charm personified. Love him. He... I can see why, you know, when he was... I can totally see why people voted for him as gov… I totally get it. You meet him and you're like, he's just terrific. And then when you read about how he made it and how he... And I know quite a lot about him because he knew my dad. And he…

23:59Sonja Klaus... So my father's second wife, Laurel, her boyfriend after she divorced my father, was a publicist, and he, and he was, Arnold's publicist. So my sister, my younger sister Fenya, was often babysat by Arnold Schwarzenegger. And this was obviously when he was, you know, up and co… you know, he wasn't…

24:18Jawad MirYeah

24:19Sonja Klaus... The…

24:19Jawad MirEarly '80s

24:20Sonja KlausYou know, and he just wanted to earn some money and, you know, he struggled. I'm sure you know the story about…

24:27Jawad MirYeah

24:27Sonja Klaus... Started. And it wasn't easy for him at all. My God. You know, and that's why I have all the time in the world for him, and he is genuinely funny. Like, he literally is hilarious, and he f… kept photo bombing me. And when I was being interviewed, 'cause he doesn't like being interviewed, but of course when I was being interviewed, he'd come, and of course they got so... They were nearly wetting themselves because he'd put his arm around me and go, "Yes, I... Yes, I'm feeling, I'm so feeling the Ralph Lauren here," like this. And I was going, "No. It's not Ralph Lauren. It's Sonia Rykiel." "Oh, yes. Rykiel. It's Rykiel. Rykiel-inator." And he was like that.

25:07Jawad MirOh, that's so cool. I would…

25:09Sonja KlausYou would've, you would've absolutely loved him. He…

25:14Jawad MirHe actually... Sorry, go on.

25:16Sonja KlausYou would've. He's so... He… you would've really enjoyed it, 'cause he's very clever, and he's also doesn't talk about himself at all. He, the... I think I s… mentioned this to you before. He talked to my son, and every time Conrad…

25:29Jawad MirYeah

25:29Sonja Klaus... Came there to visit me, 'cause he came over a few times, he always remembered the conversation he'd had with Conrad. You know, and think how many people he was meeting. He was, you know, he was going to his hotel and being bombed every night by people. He'd go into the gym and he'd have people all over him. So, you know, it's not like he wasn't constantly bombarded, but he always remembered his conversations with Conrad. And I'm like, "That's not bad for an old person, actually. That's a skill to still c… have." 'Cause y… you find out as you get older, you forget people's names.

25:58Jawad MirYeah.

25:58Sonja KlausIt's like you don't…

25:58Jawad MirYeah

25:59Sonja Klaus... Not him. Not him. He's like a schoolteacher. He's brilliant. Remembers everyone's names.

26:04Jawad MirThat's amazing. He actually, he comes in the news a lot here in Toronto because he's been spotted a few times biking in Toronto.

26:13Sonja KlausOh, yeah. He loves to bike.

26:14Jawad MirAnd, yeah. And he mentioned in an interview that he loves coming here because there's a lot of bike lanes than anywhere else…

26:20Sonja KlausYes

26:20Jawad Mir... Which I don't know if that's accurate, but maybe.

26:23Sonja KlausI don't know, no, but I know he does like going. 'Cause he talked about that when we were doing Terminator, about going to Canada.

26:29Jawad MirYeah, he l… he loves it. So no, he's, he's obviously incredible, you know, actor and performer and everything, and a human being. But, I find it very fascinating with your stories about Linda and him and, you know, it's really cool to hear those kind of things because the…

26:44Sonja KlausWell, I just think it, I just think they're lovely. They were very normal, ordinary, unglamorous, very unglamorous people, and I really like that. I think that's your job, and my job is designer, and you're an actor. That's what you chose to do. It doesn't make me a less person than you. You don't feel that with them. They don't... There's none of that.

27:06Jawad MirYeah.

27:06Sonja KlausThere's none of that. There's none of that hierarchy, "Oh, I'm a big, you know, I'm a big actor. I'm a big this. I'm big that." There's none of that. None of that.

27:14Jawad MirIt's, it's so important to have that because, I mean, I'm in no way or shape in anywhere like Arnold or Linda or even you are, but just to kinda give you an example of how important that is, you know, there have been times, even as recent as two, three years ago, my focus is directing and producing and writing, but there were a couple of shoots where I was a PA, like the bottom of the bottom job, and I would observe things and I would think things, that this is not being done the right way, but I would not open my mouth unless I was asked. And I wouldn't even tell anybody what I've done. Zero. Because I think that sets... But then you become, you start intimidating the director and the other crew in a way, or they start getting annoyed with you. What's the point? You have to stay in your lane, and if you have agreed to do something, whether it's a big job or a small job, you gotta do it and just…

28:06Sonja KlausYes

28:06Jawad Mir... Go with it.

28:08Sonja KlausI agree. I think so. And that's what I like. They're very, they're very honest, you know, quite pure people. There's no, there was no hidden agenda with them. But there's quite a few actors I've worked with who are like that. They don't have the... They're very down to earth and, they don't have that kind of fancy, you know…

28:29Jawad MirYeah

28:30Sonja Klaus... They just... And I'm like, "Good on you," 'cause you could. You could be all sort of, you know, you could do the old kind of, all the, like those big females and, you know, behave like they do, and all those big males. You know, you could, you could do that, but they don't.

28:46Jawad MirYeah. No, it's true. It, that's amazing. And, you know, you're talking about you worked on six sets today, and I was thinking maybe you need a butler.

29:00Sonja KlausMy God. I, you can't do that to him. I tried like that. Oh, my God. That would be like my dream. I'd be like, "Oh, my God. I'd love that. I can't... Oh, that would just be…"

29:11Jawad MirI, what was the, what was the gentleman…

29:13Sonja KlausI know it's never gonna happen somehow, but I like the idea…

29:15Jawad MirYeah

29:16Sonja Klaus... Of it.

29:16Jawad MirWhat was the gentleman's name who arranged everything for you, the producer? What was his name again?

29:21Sonja KlausOh, what, years ago?

29:23Jawad MirYeah.

29:23Sonja KlausBranco.

29:23Jawad MirThe one that... Branco, yeah. He…

29:26Sonja KlausBranco Lustig.

29:28Jawad MirSo I spoke to this woman. She, her dad was a co-pr… I don't know if he was a co-producer, but they were involved very much in the production of Kingdom of Heaven in Morocco. And his, her dad is, like, the probably the biggest producer in Morocco, so they do a lot of…

29:44Sonja KlausThat…

29:44Jawad Mir... Productions

29:45Sonja Klaus... It was that.

29:46Jawad MirI don't know the name, but her name was Maryam and Lee. They're, they were…

29:51Sonja KlausOh, right.

29:51Jawad MirYeah. So she talked about him. And that's when it, I, it struck me that she…

29:57Sonja KlausOh, he was…

29:58Jawad MirYeah

29:58Sonja Klaus... Oh, he was amazing.

29:59Jawad MirYeah.

29:59Sonja KlausHe was amazing. I really miss him. He did well, though. He was, like, 90. I can't... He was well in his 90s when he died. But he was, Branco was just the best. He was so great, and he saw straight through people. It was so funny. If he didn't like you, and he worked out you were a tosser, that was it. And it just was so brilliant. I was like, "You're so brilliant." 'Cause he picked out all the tossers, you know, and it was just, it was brilliant how he handled them. He just had this brilliant way of, you know… Yeah, and I really miss that. I miss that, I miss that support. I mean, he was so supportive and, you know, he was quite amazing. He was quite amazing and he, and he took the slack and he took the shit, and he, you know, he dealt with a lot of stuff, you know? And you don't, you don't get that a lot these days. You know…

30:47Jawad MirYeah

30:47Sonja Klaus... You'll, you'll get some producers... I mean, I've got one producer that I really love working with, Tim Bricknell, who's very creative, and I've done television with him, two big TV shows. And Tim is great 'cause he's incredibly supportive to the crew and to you. And also, 'cause you know, you put your submit a budget in like, you know, I submit a budget and it's just my interpretation. I get given a script, "Can you do a budget?" "Okay, fine." And, you know, you'll get some information like, "Oh, we know we have to build this set," or, "We know we gotta go, we're gonna go on location," you know, blah. So, you know, you do it, but sometimes you might need an extra carriage or sometimes you might need an extra 10 grand because the five grand that you've put in, and you've been on the recce, it isn't gonna work, you know? And you know that scene's really important, you know, s… you're seeing that's not the one that you can chop with the scissors. It's not the shoe leather, sh… leather one. It's quite plot-led, so you know that can't go, but you, and you know that's got to look the part, and you need to spend the money.

31:52Sonja KlausAnd he was very good, like Branco, very good at making those decisions about visually, you know, what was going to enhance and help on screen visually because, you know, at the end of the day, that is what people are going to look at, isn't it? And they w… they, you know, Tim, like Branco, very good at that, and so was Chris Thompson, who sadly is not here anymore, but like Branco, but Chris was very good at that too. And I do think there are people, I think that's a gift. You know, it's a gift.

32:18Jawad MirYeah.

32:19Sonja KlausAnd also not being, not being horrible about it, you know? Not always, they never said n… Branco never, ever said no to me. He used to say, "I'll think about it." Or whatever he said. But even when he said, "I'll think about it," I used to, when I first met him, I thought, "Oh, I'm guessing, I'm hoping that isn't a sort of fancy way of saying no."

32:43Jawad MirYeah.

32:43Sonja KlausAnd it wasn't because he would go away, think about it, and then he'd text me or get his assistant and they'd, he'd say, "So Branco wants to speak to you." And he'd say, "Darling, I've been thinking about it. I think we should do it like this." And I'm like, "Okay, right." I mean, I'd already done it anyway. If he says yes.

33:05Jawad MirThat's a…

33:05Sonja Klaus'Cause he never, 'cause he never said no to me.

33:08Jawad MirThat's such a great attitude, right? Because sometimes when somebody asks us something, in any context, our immediate reaction if we don't agree with it might be no, but if we just pull back for five minutes or five hours or whatever that is…

33:21Sonja KlausYeah, and just digest it

33:22Jawad Mir... Five days. Yeah.

33:23Sonja KlausYeah.

33:23Jawad MirAnd, a… a… a… and you do change your mind. Like, you know, sometimes if I, sure, I'm sure you, I know I do, you know, you will hear something like, "Oh, okay, should I open my mouth?" Maybe, but maybe sometimes you just gotta pull back, and then you realize…

33:37Sonja KlausYeah

33:37Jawad Mir... "Oh, okay, maybe I shouldn't contact this person right now." You know, you start talking to yourself in your head and…

33:42Sonja KlausYes. And I, and I th… also think there are people like, you know, I know people who work for me, and they're quite whiny. They can be a bit whiny. And so it's difficult sometimes 'cause they tell you they can't do something, and you're like, "Oh, I think it's 'cause you're a bit whiny, lazy." But then there are other people and they'll come to you and they'll genuinely say to you, "I need some help," and you know, I know that is real. Like, I had to ask for help today. I got ahold of the producer and I said, "We need more props labor. This isn't working."

34:16Sonja KlausAnd I, and I genuinely said to him, "You have to understand me as a person. I'm not gonna come and ask you for help if I don't really need it," because I am very budget aware. I'm very budget aware, and so I, you know, and I've just been, that's been hammered in my brain, you know? I've been, I've been doing it for so long. I've been doing it for so long. I can't... You know, I used to get so annoyed about, I'd hear about, I hear about these films where they have, like, 15 people in set dec as petty cash buyers and I'm like, "Each one of those people is gonna go out, take photos," which is gonna cost money with petrol, let's just say, production pay for the petrol, but even so, and they're gonna take photos, and they'll probably buy some stuff that's useless that you don't want anyway. But how do you manage 15 people? And each one of those 15 people has got a float, so they're spending money. Every day they're going out 'cause their title is petty cash buyer, right? It's not sit and think about, it's petty cash buyer.

35:18Sonja KlausAnd y… I used to get, I was quite vicious on my jobs, when I was a set decorator in particular, 'cause I might have... You know, I could have had 12 or 20 people with floats going out there, and then I'd go to the, I'd go to the buyer, my main buyer, and I'd say to Graham K… or, Graham Bishop or Chrissy Williamson or whoever I had as my buyer, and I'd say, "I need to have a chat with you about these floats. So you know how Sarah's got a grand? We're gonna make it 500."

35:49Sonja KlausAnd then, and then as we got closer to the end, you know, and when I say closer to the end when you're a big film, I'm talking about 10 weeks before the end. I'm not talking about two weeks before the end. I'm talking about 10 weeks before the end. I'd say, "Sarah doesn't need a float now."

36:04Sonja KlausBecause I knew that Sarah would be going in a week or two weeks, and I'd be like, "Got to cut that off." And, you know, they'd go, "Are you sure? You know, maybe she should have 50 quid or something." Like, you can give her 50 quid, but that's it. You know, she can go with an order and go and rent something or whatever, or she can show me and someone else can go and buy it if she finds something. And the weird thing is that system also works. People, like, go, "Oh, it's not gonna work," and it's like, do… You can make a phone call and go, "Sorry, can you just pay... You know, I found something. Sonia loves it. It's 1,099, can you just pay for it, please?" Yeah. I mean, how hard is that?

36:44Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

36:46Sonja KlausAnd…

36:46Jawad MirWell, egos kick in, right? That's what it is

36:48Sonja KlausWell, unfort… and also they're so impor… everyone's so important these days, aren't they? My God, aren't they just so important? I was like... You know, when I was on Terminator, I could have gone around, I could have. I could've got back and going to all the boys at Pinewood. I could have gone, "Yeah, so I designed Terminator."

37:07Jawad MirYeah.

37:07Sonja KlausAnd the thing is, they know I did it, but I didn't go around going, "Yeah, look at me, I designed Terminator." I didn't go around. But if they'd been going around, they'd go, "Oh, yeah, so I'm doing Terminator at the moment. Yeah, it's a $240 million movie." And I didn't do that. I didn't do that, 'cause I'm too cool to do that. And so I didn't do that, but I could have. And then someone, one of the, one of the boys, put something to me. He said, "Did you,.. Sorry, were you art director on Terminator?" And I said, "no. Art's production designer, thanks." And he went, "Oh. Oh." Like that.

37:43Jawad MirA… and that's, that's the thing, right? Like, when you tell people what you do or what you have done, their attitude towards you may shift. You know what I mean?

37:52Sonja KlausYes. That's how that works.

37:52Jawad MirThey may, they may think you're at the s… same level… ... And then if they think you're, they're below you, then they become superior. And if they think that you're doing something bigger than…

38:00Sonja KlausOh

38:01Jawad Mir... "Oh, okay."

38:01Sonja KlausIt's quite funny how people do that.

38:03Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

38:03Sonja KlausYou know, I never do that because I don't think you should. I don't, I don't believe that. I believe that in a show, everyone has something to offer, and I respect position. I respect the director's position. I respect the producer's d… d… you know, pr… position. I don't over, I don't over, I don't go over that.

38:24Jawad MirYeah.

38:24Sonja KlausI'm, I know I'm below that, and I respect that, and I try to teach that to people that work for me 'cause I think it's terribly important. And you need to do that. There has to be a structure. You know, it's like being in the army. You can't all be the same.

38:38Jawad MirYeah.

38:38Sonja KlausYou can't all be the lieutenant. Someone's got to be the private, you know?

38:42Jawad Mir100%.

38:43Sonja KlausThat's just how it works, isn't it?

38:45Jawad Mir100%.

38:46Sonja KlausAnd also it's collaboration, isn't it? It's a, it's, it's a collaboration. You know, Terminator was an interesting one because, not a lot of... I mean, there had been a little bit of pre-prep that had been done, to be, to be fair to them, but I gotta say, not a lot. So quite a lot of pre-vis and all that stuff was being done whilst we were, you know, we were prepping.

39:10Jawad MirYeah.

39:11Sonja KlausIt was growing. You know, every day was, it was changing, and it was quite last-minute. There were a lot of very last-minute moments in that. I mean, and scarily last-minute, even for me. I was like, "This is last-minute. Oh my God, are we gonna cope?" But you know, you do, don't you? And some people get nervous, 'cause you know, some people can... They need more time than others, don't they, with the coping? Their coping mechanism is not as…

39:40Jawad MirYeah, it's…

39:41Sonja Klaus... As mine is, and they go…

39:42Jawad MirIt's all ab…

39:42Sonja Klaus... A bit crazy

39:43Jawad Mir... Yeah. It's all about ability to handle pressure.

39:47Sonja KlausYes, and you…

39:48Jawad MirThat's, that's all it is

39:49Sonja Klaus... But you... I always try to say to people who are younger, you know, when they're, are coming, I go, "You'll be able to handle a lot." They go, "How do you... You don't seem to get stressed, and you..." I mean, well, I get a bit stressed. Yeah, of course I do. That's human nature. It's natural to get a little stressed. You know, I'd be a bit weird if I didn't have a bit of stress.

40:08Jawad MirYeah.

40:09Sonja KlausAnd I, and I... And they say, "Oh, but how do you do it?" And I said, "Well, you know, because I'm experienced, because I listen." And you know, it's important that you do those things because if, with that, when you have that, comes power, doesn't it? You know, the power will come if you, if you do that. And they kind of, they wanna skip all those hoops, don't they? Isn't that funny? They wanna skip all that, don't they?

40:34Jawad MirYeah.

40:34Sonja KlausThey don't want, they don't wanna learn. It's like learning to play the piano. They don't wanna go from book one to book two to book three to book four. They wanna go from book one to book eight in a week.

40:44Jawad MirYeah. That, and plus I think one of the biggest things, again, this is not limited to film, it's every, any, everywhere in every career and also in life, there are people who look for a problem to a problem…

40:55Sonja KlausOh, yeah, in every…

40:55Jawad Mir... And there's people look for solution to a problem. That's it.

40:58Sonja KlausYeah, that's true.

40:59Jawad MirAnd I don't think that's experience.

41:02Sonja KlausI agree. No, I…

41:02Jawad MirAnd I don't think that's experience at all

41:04Sonja Klaus... No, I agree with you, and I, 'cause I was trying to explain to one of the painters who's putting some construction up for me today, and we were talking about light givers, and he just... He's about 24 or something, and I was with this other guy who's, who's not 24. He's probably 40, and he's I… he's Indian. And this other guy was a big white guy. You know, he's the 24-year-old, and then this. And I said, I said, "Well, I'm a light giver." And the Indian man, who doesn't know me very well, he nodded and he went, "Yes, you are." Like that. And this other guy was just looking at us. He's going, "What are you two..." And he was painting. "What? What's a light giver then?" Like that. I said, "Well, you know..." And then I explained it to him, and he was like, "Oh." And I said, "Now I've told you that, now I've explained it to you're now gonna notice that when you talk to people and meet people." And I said, "Also what you're gonna notice is there's people where you're quite happy to be close to them, even people you just met, you feel it's okay to stand next to them."

42:10Sonja KlausAnd I said, "You feel fine." But I said, "You'll find with other people, your, you s… your subconscious makes you stand away."

42:18Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

42:19Sonja KlausAnd I said, "You just, your subconscious is doing that 'cause we're animals at the end of the day and we have a sen… we have senses." And he went, "Ah." And then I said, "Haven't you noticed that? Like, with some of your friends, like some of your friends, you like wanna put your arm around them and you're quite happy to touch them." I said, "But you're gonna have other people that you know that you don't wanna touch." Because they're giving off, they… they're like, "Don't come near me. Don't come near me." And he said, "Oh, yeah, I see what you mean." And I said, "But with light giving, it's about the positive energy that you give off." And I said, "What happens to me…

42:52Jawad MirYeah

42:53Sonja Klaus... Is, as I'm a light giver," I said, "people try to suck some out of me." And I said…

42:59Jawad MirOh, yeah

43:00Sonja Klaus... "I can feel it being sucked out of me by people." So I said, "I have to stay away from those people."

43:06Jawad MirToxic people, 100%.

43:08Sonja KlausAnd you know what I mean by that, don't you? And it was funny, the guy that, the other guy, the construction worker was going, "Oh, totally." He said, "Totally." He said, "My aunt is like that. She sucks my life out of me." And I said, "Yeah." And this guy's there, "Ooh, these two people, " Anyway, and then he, then he saw me later when he was leaving, and he just went, he went, "I can't believe what I've learned just painting that wall up there from you."

43:35Jawad MirThat's awesome. That's all it's about. It's, it's really good to hear those kind of things and, you know, and I, and I think anybody, like w… anybody can be anything that they want in life, but as long as they have the right attitude.

43:47Sonja KlausYeah, totally.

43:48Jawad MirThat's, that's, that's all that is.

43:48Sonja KlausNo, and I think, I think, you know, I think when I interviewed for Terminator, I didn't actually interview for Terminator, I actually interviewed for another show that they were all gonna do, which was basically like a Game of Thrones replacement.

44:05Sonja KlausIt was based on three books, and it was literally a production designer's dream. It was c… there were worlds that were like North, South, East, and West. And it was, they were made up. You know, it was fantasy. And it was absolutely amazing. I mean, they sent me the scripts for the first block, and I was like, "Oh my God." I mean, and it was like big, you know, big fanta… amazing. And I was like, "This is a dream." Anyway, I interviewed for it, and the cat was jumping up, and the tail was all in my face, and it was in our kitchen. And they were kind of looking at me completely, and I was like, "Oh, that didn't go well. Oof. They're never gonna give me the job. I had a cat's tail up my nose, and you know, I'm not gonna get it." Anyway, they rang back two days later, 'cause they said, "Can you read a bit more of the script? Can we talk about it?" And I was like, "Sure." So then I rang back, and I read more script, and I made some notes. And they were all there, and, there were five of them, and they all said together, they said, "Well, it's a unanimous decision. We decided we just gotta have you to do the job."

45:07Sonja KlausAnd I just went, "What?" Like that, 'cause I wasn't expecting that. I was expecting it would go to a big hairy boy or something, you know, not me. And they were like, "No, we, no, we just gotta have you." Anyway, long story short, I then get this ph… and I was like, "Oh!" And so I was, I was like, "Oh my God, my dream job has just happened. My, the one. I've just, I'm the one." Anyway, so then Tim calls me about a week later, and he goes, "there's been a change of plan. So we're not doing that show now. We're gonna do, Terminator instead." So I went from dragons and castles to Terminator, and they'd booked Ngila, who did the costumes on Lord of the Rings.

45:51Jawad MirYeah.

45:51Sonja KlausShe's New Zealand, and she designed all those beautiful costumes on the Lord of the Rings film. Anyway, they'd booked her, obviously. And of course, when I found out they'd got her, I was like, "Oh my God, the costumes on Lord of the Rings were so amazing." And I was like, I was like, as a designer, I was like, "Oh," you know? And it was, it was great. And they went, yeah. And they said... And I said, "So, oh, so, do you have to get another costume designer?" "Oh, no. We've told Ngila, and she said yes." And I said, "Oh, so she's gone from doing fantasy fairytale costumes to jeans and T-shirts."

46:24Jawad MirWow.

46:24Sonja KlausAnd then they, and then they went, "Yeah, but it's $240 million of jeans and T-shirts." And I went, "Oh, okay. Count me in." And so…

46:32Jawad MirThat's such a cool story. It's amazing how you get from one project to another with the same group of people, and one not panning out and the other just panning out.

46:39Sonja KlausI know. How weird was that? I went from dragons and castles to Terminator. That was so weird.

46:46Jawad MirWell, I think it was a great choice because it's, it's a great film, even in today's time, even though it was six years ago. I mean, visual effects, practical effects, everything was bang on, and the sound was incredible. Everything was perfect.

47:00Sonja KlausOh, I thought the sound was, the, I thought they did a really good job with the sound.

47:03Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

47:03Sonja KlausI think, well, James Cameron was quite on it. You know, he was... He had rushes sent to him every day, and there were notes that would come back from him. So he was still…

47:12Jawad MirInvolved

47:13Sonja Klaus... Even doing Avatar, you know, he was heavily into Avatar at the time. And he never came on the set, but he, we had n… you know, we had the occasional note sent to him, sent through him about, you know, move, you know, sets to come or, you know, characteri… characterizations. You know, and I do think, I mean, I will... It was great because the rest of the cast, you know, there was Linda and, obviously Linda and Arnold. But the rest of the cast were quite young, you know, and they were unknown relatively.

47:44Jawad MirYeah.

47:44Sonja KlausThey were all actually really sweet. But I don't know. I, they had a bit of grandeur about them, which was quite funny. So they were like these two, like, megas, and then there were these younger ones, and they were very, were a little bit pompous.

48:02Jawad MirOh, it's insecur… insecurities, right?

48:04Sonja KlausYeah, it's totally insecurity. Imagine, you've got Linda Hamilton and Arnold Schwarzenegger in front of you. You know, you're gonna be a bit kind of like, "…" But they, but they were very nice, you know. They were very charming. And

48:17Jawad MirNice

48:17Sonja Klaus... You know, and so it was, actually, it was all right. You know, it was quite hard going with some of the production sit… the situation was difficult. And there's always language barriers, you know, that you have to get over, or things aren't understood properly, and you know, but you get used to that. I mean, I've traveled all over the world.

48:37Jawad MirYeah.

48:37Sonja KlausBut you have to try to help people who don't understand that. They get very frustrated very quickly. You know, it's particularly, you know, you're in Spain, and you might have someone who doesn't speak any English. You know, you will get a Spanish person who doesn't speak any English. And in Hungary you'll, you can... It's quite common, you know, to get painters or chippies, or plasterers, they don't speak any English, you know?

48:57Jawad MirYeah.

48:57Sonja KlausAnd so you have to adjust yourself accordingly, and a lot of people get very frus… very angry and very grumpy, and you're like, "Ugh, c…

49:05Jawad MirYeah.

49:05Sonja KlausYou speak Hungarian?

49:09Jawad MirWell, it's, it's, it's amazing that you worked on such an incredible film, and your work obviously stands out, and really cool hearing all your stories, like always. You know…

49:20Sonja KlausWell…

49:20Jawad MirThank you so much for doing all the work

49:22Sonja Klaus... No, it's a pleasure.

49:24Jawad MirYeah. Well, I'm, I should be coming to UK next month. I'll probably know by the end of this month if I'm definitely coming.

49:30Sonja KlausOkay, great. Just te… just text me when you get here.

49:33Jawad MirYeah.

49:33Sonja KlausYeah.

49:33Jawad MirAnd we'll, we'll hook up, for lunch or dinner.

49:35Sonja KlausYeah, no. Totally. Yeah, just text me. I'm here. Not going anywhere.

49:38Jawad MirPerfect. Perfect. Well, wishing you all the best with all the stuff and…

49:41Sonja KlausOh, well, it was so lovely to see you. I did that book…

49:43Jawad MirLikewise

49:44Sonja Klaus... Okay, that you've got on there, Kingdom of Heaven.

49:46Jawad MirYou did?

49:47Sonja KlausYeah, I had to put all that together. I'm in it.

49:51Jawad MirI know you're in it. I haven't read in a long time but…

49:53Sonja KlausMine are behind me, look. Oh, mine are there.

49:58Jawad MirOh, I see it. I see it.

49:59Sonja KlausOh, I've got the gla… you know, you haven't got the Gladiator one, have you?

50:02Jawad MirYeah, I do. I have the…

50:03Sonja KlausYou've got the Prometheus one?

50:06Jawad MirNo, I don't have the Prometheus one.

50:06Sonja KlausI did the, I did the Pro… I did the Prometheus one as I did a lot on the Prometheus one, but obviously Arthur Max, you know, takes the credit for all of it.

50:16Jawad MirYeah, here's the Gladiator one. This is when there was a company called New Market Press

50:21Sonja KlausYes, I've got the Gladiator one

50:23Jawad Mir... That they used to do shooting scripts. So this one is the making of…

50:27Sonja KlausYes

50:27Jawad Mir... And I still have it. Yeah. Still have it. Amazing book.

50:30Sonja KlausIt's a good one.

50:32Jawad MirYeah. You know one of the things now with the age, you reali… I wish... These are all incredible, and I've read them a long time ago, but the fonts are so small…

50:41Sonja KlausRight.

50:42Jawad Mir... That and I'm, I'm always looking for, like, the, Kindle version so I can just, you know…

50:47Sonja KlausOh, yes

50:48Jawad Mir... But they don't, they don't make Kindle versions for books like this, which sucks…

50:51Sonja KlausOh

50:51Jawad Mir... But it is what it is.

50:52Sonja KlausNo, I know. They don't. I've got the Chicken Run one as well. I loved Chicken Run.

50:57Jawad MirYeah. Yeah. One of the…

50:58Sonja KlausI still buy them. I go, I still get them. I go into the, into the bookstore and I, if I see one and I'm like, "Oh, I'm gonna get that," because, you know, I really love the... I love looking at them, 'cause I love how some of them are put together. You know, they're put together really well, aren't they? And I love with all the drawings and the photos and the, you know, and I love them.

51:16Jawad MirThere's a really good one that I'll send. It's kind of buried here somewhere. I think it's at the bottom. It's on Jaws. There's a couple of good ones…

51:23Sonja KlausOh

51:23Jawad Mir... On Jaws.

51:24Sonja KlausIs there?

51:25Jawad MirYeah. There's one that's…

51:26Sonja KlausOh

51:26Jawad Mir... Called,.. Well, the Jaws 50th anniversary tomorrow, or day after tomorrow.

51:30Sonja KlausOh, really?

51:31Jawad MirYeah. And they're, they're doing a docu…

51:33Sonja KlausAre they gonna play... Do you think they'll play in England? Do you think they'll play Jaws?

51:37Jawad MirPossibly. I know they're doing a…

51:38Sonja KlausThey're doing Jaws in the, they're, they're doing Jaws in the Royal Albert Hall with a full orchestra.

51:44Jawad MirYou should go because they're doing a big party at Martha Vineyards, a 50th anniversary.

51:50Sonja KlausOh, are they?

51:50Jawad MirYeah. And…

51:52Sonja KlausAre you gonna go?

51:52Jawad MirI was hoping to go but I can't. And then because right now my priority is Whispers in Time, and that's…

51:58Sonja KlausYes

51:59Jawad Mir... That's just a thing.

52:00Sonja KlausIt's not far for you to go to Martha's Vineyard.

52:03Jawad MirNo. No, it's not.

52:03Sonja KlausHow long it take? Like four, five hours.

52:06Jawad MirIt's not... Yeah, it's not that bad, but, you know, you also have to have someone to go with, and I don't know anybody who's a Jaws fan that wants to go with.

52:12Sonja KlausOh, right. Yeah. Wants to go. Yeah.

52:12Jawad MirYou know, you just... Right. But there's a book called Jaws Memories, which is really great. There's a Jaws 50th anniversary documentary coming out on Disney Plus.

52:21Sonja KlausOh, I'm gonna have to look. I bet you they'll have it. They'll have that in…

52:24Jawad MirYeah

52:25Sonja Klaus... In one of the bookshops. They'll, they'll definitely be displaying it, 'cause they do to keep up with that in London. Es…

52:30Jawad MirYeah

52:30Sonja Klaus... Particularly if you go, like, Waterstones, or if you go to, or if you go to, Hatchards, they always do, they keep up with what's happening.

52:37Jawad MirOkay. This is something you would love. Right up your alley.

52:41Sonja KlausOh, look at that. Can I just take a picture of that?

52:43Jawad MirYeah.

52:43Sonja KlausHang on. I'm gonna take a picture. Oh. Yeah.

52:52Jawad MirSo…

52:52Sonja KlausSo did, does that go…

52:53Jawad MirD…

52:53Sonja Klaus... From the fir… Is that the first one?

52:55Jawad MirNo, this is... I don't know when it came out, so there's a lot of books, but this is literally from production designer. I mean, all it is, like, all these sketches and storyboards.

53:06Sonja KlausOh, look at those.

53:07Jawad MirAnd…

53:08Sonja KlausThat's when designers could draw properly.

53:10Jawad MirYeah. And then, and then there's a lot of, like, text, and they... Everything…

53:14Sonja KlausOh, no, I love all that.

53:14Jawad MirYeah.

53:14Sonja KlausThat looks really good. I'm gonna get myself that.

53:17Jawad MirYeah. It's, it's a great book.

53:18Sonja KlausDid you get that, did you get that on Amazon?

53:20Jawad MirYeah, I did. I did. It's

53:22Sonja KlausYeah, I'm gonna get that

53:23Jawad Mir... It's a great book.

53:25Sonja KlausI love that. I love that first film.