Hulu's 'The Lowdown', Sharon Tabb, Make Up Head

0:00Sharon TabbYeah, 'cause you get to see, you get to see another side of them. I mean, they're, they're humans, you know what I mean? And the, in the makeup room, especially when they get to know you a little bit and they realize they can trust you know, they'll share things with you that you know you don't share with anybody else, and, that you learn so much about them. And I personally just, like growing as a human, I learn so much from these people because they've gone through, they've gone through so much. You know, people that you would never imagine, that you think like, "Oh, they're a celebrity. They're, they're g…

0:27Jawad MirYeah

0:27Sharon Tabb... They've got this like perfect life." No. A lot of them have been through a lot of stuff. How kind many of them are and the things that they do, and, you know, they work hard. Like, a lot of these actors, th… they didn't just get a break and are famous and rich all of a sudden. I mean, these people, they've, they've all worked hard to get where they've been, and they still do. So I think, you know, that's also like a lot of respect that I give to so many of these actors.

0:58Jawad MirWelcome back, everyone, to another episode of Kingdom of Dreams Podcast: The Making of Stories. I'm your host Jawad Miar. My apologies again for not being active on the podcast side of things. Just been quite swamped with couple of projects that I'm working on in the film world, that I will talk to you about in the next couple of months hopefully. But, this week, I will be posting three episodes, so one today, one Friday, one Sunday, and then there might be a little bit of gap again, which I'm trying to reduce, but hopefully things will come back to normal, around November 10th, November 11th. Today, my conversation features Sharon Tabb, head of makeup department for the Ethan Hawke series that's on Hulu called The Low Down. I have had the pleasure of s… seeing couple of episodes, and this podcast episode was recorded before the first three episodes had aired. Only three episodes had heared, had aired, so we talked about mainly, on that. And plus, her career, how it has shaped out, her fascinating stories, about the town that she's from, and also some stories about the films that she's worked on and the projects that she's worked on.

2:07Jawad MirFun conversation. Without further ado, here's my conversation with Sharon Tabb for The Low Down. Thank you so much, Sharon, for joining, to talk about The Low Down starring Ethan Hawke. Checked out the first few episodes and really enjoyed it…

2:21Sharon TabbThank you

2:21Jawad Mir... So thank you so much for being involved in that.

2:24Sharon TabbWell, thank you so much for having me, and oh, it's a, it's a blast to be a part of.

2:28Jawad MirTell me, before we get into a lot of your past work and how you started, how did you get involved in The Low Down, the story behind that and getting o… coming on board on this project?

2:40Sharon TabbWell, prior to Low Down, I worked on,.. I was the department head makeup on Reservation Dogs, so I mean, that clearly led me to this, because it's basically we kept most of our entire crew. Kind of just, kinda, we kinda came over. And then a lot of us have already... You know, have worked with Sterlin for years, and so we just, we all know how each other works and it's a good fit.

3:05Jawad MirAmazing. And when you first read the script, do you remember your initial reaction to the characters and to the story? Ke… keeping it limited to the first two, three episodes, of course.

3:16Sharon TabbYeah. When I read the pilot, I was just... Like, I kne… I mean, I knew it was gonna be great, 'cause it was Sterlin. I don't know if you saw Reservation Dogs, but the stories were all so great, and they were all so... I feel like every episode kinda varied. Like, s… one might be kind of a tearjerker, and then the next one is hilarious.

3:33Jawad MirYeah.

3:33Sharon TabbAnd so I just knew going into this, oh, it's gonna be great. But then when I read it, I was like, oh, this is like next-level great. Like, I just knew, like we had something really special. Reservation Dogs was special, too, but what I'm saying is I just knew, okay, here we are, you know what I mean? Like, it's g… of course it's gonna be amazing. But until you get there and realize. Then when you are on set and you see these characters coming to life and seeing what actors they brought in, every day was just like a wow moment, like truly. And it's funny, 'cause I'm probably just gonna go off on tangents here, but…

4:07Jawad MirNo, that's fine

4:07Sharon Tabb... Every time a new cast member would come in or, like someone that hadn't worked with Sterlin before, it's like everybody has this like same like wow. Like, is this real life? Like, is it really like this? I mean, we've all been on set before. We know what it's like to be on set, and we get excited about projects, but it's just the whole dynamic of everything. It's like Sterlin sets the tone, and I think it just, it clearly trickles down, and it just makes for a great environment. Everybody gets to be creative, and everybody feels it, so everybody's just like doing their best work, truly.

4:42Jawad MirAnd you said he sets the tone, right?

4:44Sharon Tabbhuh.

4:44Jawad MirObviously, that's very important that, in any kind of work… ... The hierarchy. Tell me how he would set the tone that will get everybody excited, like if there was a story to share or an example that you can, share with our viewers.

4:57Sharon TabbOkay, let me see. I mean, 'cause of course I'm not in the writing room. I don't know what all they're thinking when they're really talking about everything, but I know just from a department head standpoint, it's... Let's see. I think it's just he approaches it, like... Let's see. He approaches it very like we're all creative. We're, we're collaborating. He clearly has his vision and what he wants, but I think it's just like his vibe that he puts out. Like sometimes you'll go into a project and you're like, "Okay, it's this way, it's that way, and we're just here to just, you know, okay, we'll do what we're told," or whatever. In this situation, it's just kinda like, "Here it is," but like if you ha… if you wanna chime in, it's very welcome, you know what I mean? It's, it's very welcome. Like, if he sends me something, like he wants a character a certain way, I might respond back and said, "Hey, what do you think about this?" And he'll either be like, "no, I think I'm going this way," or he'll be like, "Oh, yeah, let's do that." Like, it's very collaborative. It's never like,.. You just, you just feel like you're, you're, you're part of the story just as much as he is, which that's really cool.

6:01Sharon TabbAnd he's very much about how you treat other people, and that's very important to me because, You know, in this industry, it's not always that way, and so he's very much about just team playing, do your job, have fun, and we're here, you know, telling a story.

6:19Jawad MirAmazing. And in this case or a general case, when you get involved in a project, obviously your department is more catered towards the production side of things. But in terms of pre-production, how early or in advance do you come on board on a project, or this project in general? You know, is it, like, literally from the prep stage, or is it halfway into the prep stage? If you can sort of talk about that.

6:44Sharon TabbYeah. Okay, I feel like on any production, it's never enough time. No, I'm just kidding. I…

6:49Jawad MirThat's, that's the case with all of us, right?

6:51Sharon TabbIt's all of it. It's like…

6:52Jawad MirYeah

6:52Sharon Tabb... I would like to be br… I would like to be brought in when they're writing. Please just call me up and tell me what's going on. It's probably halfway in, but then, you know, we're not, like, officially prepping until probably a month before, because a lot of times, you know, the scripts aren't done either, and they're still tweaking, and they're not really sending stuff out to the department heads yet. But if I can get any information, like, I'm already, like, poking at people. Like, "Hey, so what do you think about this?" Like, just 'cause I wanna make sure we have everything, and especially 'cause so many of these characters were, developing their look, so I just have to make sure that I am fully prepared for everything. But yeah, I'd say probably halfway in is when I start getting information.

7:35Jawad MirAnd i… on this project in particular, when you did come in, right ... And then in terms of creating looks of the actors, specifically the protagonist, Ethan Hawke… ... How much time do you spend... I mean, because at least in the first few episodes I've seen, you know, every film has makeup and, a… and all that, but there is, it, the type of story it is and the type of beating up sessions there are in this s…

8:04Sharon TabbYeah

8:04Jawad Mir... In this series.

8:05Sharon TabbYeah.

8:05Jawad MirThere's a lot to go with. So how much involvement did Ethan Hawke, from your standpoint, you know, before the production began, happen to be? Because it is, it is, like, a mob essential story, right? Like, media, mob, and all that stuff. And, so yeah, talk about, talk about that for a little bit.

8:23Sharon TabbLike, just, like, how Ethan came into it?

8:25Jawad MirYeah.

8:26Sharon TabbLike, how... Okay, well, 'cause number one, he's an executive producer. Number two, he's the lead actor, and he's also such a,.. What's the word that I'm try… he's so passionate. He's a very passionate person. And again, it, what's so funny is about him, he, f… when you're around him, you feel like you're just part of the crew, just FYI. He's just there, just one of us, which is another cool thing. Him going into this, because it was based off, based loosely on a character based out of, out of, you know, he, from Tulsa…

8:57Sharon Tabb... He, I mean, he kind of just dove head in. He knew what he wanted for this guy, from the very beginning. So when I, when I met with him on our test look, he was just very much like, you know, "We're gonna keep this guy raw and gritty," which is the way Sterlin would want it, and that's the way that I perceived it as well. So I mean, everything he was telling me, I was kind of like, "Okay, cool. We're not gonna have to deal with any vanity here." Because some actors, you know, they still wanna be their glamorous self. No, he's like, "No, this guy would not have makeup on. No, he would have dark circles. No, he'd be worn and torn down." And I'm like, "Yes, and more yes." 'cause that's exactly the way the character is. And, that's just the... And I feel like it reads that way too. And we had to set up his tattoos, and we kind of get, we had to get them established. So I don't know if that's something you would like me to touch on.

9:44Jawad MirSure, please.

9:45Sharon TabbBut it's, it's ki… it's kind of fun because, w… he has... We ended up doing, t… a tattoo here and a tattoo here, and one of them was a scorpion, and that was something that Ethan wanted. He was, he wanted the scorpion, so we got him a scorpion. And then the other one on his other forearm is a, some type of a black bird. I should know what bird it is. But it's the same exact tattoo that Sterlin has. So I just reached out to Sterlin's tattoo artist, and I got a copy of it. And then, on the scorpion, we kind of modified it and kind of made it aged. We wanna make sure these tattoos look worn in and, you know, kind of worn down, that he's had them for a while.

10:27Jawad MirSure.

10:27Sharon TabbAnd then the other one was Sterlin in the script had put in there a Mother Mary with a Confederate flag. And so that's, that's all the information I had, and I'm like, "Well, okay." So I contacted Sterlin's tattoo artist, 'cause clearly they're used to doing this kind of weird requests. And, he came back and gave me, a proof, and I submitted it to Sterlin. And it wasn't q… in the beginning, it wasn't quite what he wanted, and so we finally, we had to kind of go do some going back and forth, and then finally we got what we wanted. And, then I sent them off to get printed, and there you go.

11:03Jawad MirAmazing.

11:03Sharon TabbSo it was kind of interesting times with the whole tattoo. And then when we applied them, we just, you know, trying to find the right placement for it. And then once you get them on, then you gotta determine, like, okay, do they still look too fresh? 'Cause I feel like the pilot, we were still doing a lot of tweaking, and so we just gotta make sure, again, that they look lived in. So yeah, it's a fun process.

11:26Jawad MirYou know, one of the things I really liked about the series, it, from the get-go, from the first episode, like, you know, it's so timely with what's going on, the whole thing about the press, you know, publishing…

11:38Jawad Mir... And all these threats that are coming in. And one of the things I genuinely loved about the series, so far, that it's very grounded. It's just about a small town. You know, it's not like New York or LA, and it's, like, all the, you know, running around happening. And it just, sometimes depending on the show or the film, it takes you out of it because not everybody lives in the major city. Like, majority of them, I mean, are Americans, or a majority of Canadians are…

12:04Jawad Mir... Or they live in the suburbs. So it was really quite cool to see that, just a sort of a comment that I wanted to make, that, how that's being handled in the series. It's really well done.

12:16Sharon TabbOh, I'm glad to hear that. I think so too. It just, it has a little bit more realness and it, with it being kind of more from a small town aspect, I think it makes it a little more interesting, you know? You get to s… see some drama, some…

12:30Jawad MirAnd also in small town, everybody's lives are so interconnected, you know? Even, there's a lot of, like, gossip going. You know how that is, like your gossip going around.

12:37Sharon TabbYes, that's what I was gonna say. There's…

12:38Jawad MirYeah

12:39Sharon Tabb... Everybody's in everybody's business, where I... You know, when you live in a big city, no one really knows, but when you're in a small town, yeah, it's very well, very much, like, you know, just one great example is when Ray is talking to, Ethan or E… Ray talking to Lee when he's at the antique sale or the real estate sale, and, you know, he's like, they're talking smack about, Betty Jo and, you know, her, how she got where she came from, you know? So it's like, it's, it's funny 'cause you don't really see that in the city.

13:10Jawad MirYeah. No, it was really well executed. Let's, let's jump back in time a little bit before we come back to the series. How did you get the bug of being in the makeup department of a film? Was it a specific film, TV show? Anything that you wanna share in terms of your journey, the catalyst of that brought you where you are today?

13:30Sharon TabbOkay, it's... Okay, this is actually interesting, and, I hadn't thought about it in a while, so I'm, I'm glad you, I'm glad you brought that up because I think it's really important, especially…

13:39Jawad MirSure

13:39Sharon Tabb... 'cause, okay, so I am originally from Oklahoma. However, I moved to California when I was 16, and I went, I finished high school out there and I feel like all my formative, my formative years, I feel like I, were in California, and all my friends were there. I never in a million years thought I would ever leave California. So I got into makeup, gosh, like literally over 30 years ago, like over 34, 35 years ago, and I knew that, I knew immediately the first time that I did makeup, I was like, "I, this is gonna be my job. Like, I am gonna do movie makeup. I don't know how I'm gonna do it." It was before the internet, so it was be… like 1990, 1991. I knew then and there that I wanted to do it. No connections, again, no internet, didn't know what the heck I was doing. So I went many years just trying to figure out how to make that happen, and I could not afford makeup school at the time, and so I am a self-taught makeup artist. As I made money throughout the years, I eventually started taking classes and hiring, well-known artists in LA, and I would take private classes from them.

14:47Sharon TabbI'll tell you what really gave me my biggest break, and I had some great gigs in LA, I really did. But in 2000 and, let's see... Oh, actually, it's really funny. Okay, I think it was around 2009. My husband and I were living in California, 2008, hang on, let me back up, 'cause it's, it's actually really interesting how life works and it's so…

15:11Jawad MirSure

15:12Sharon Tabb... Weird. It might've been 2007, I think. Okay. So we thought, "You know what? Maybe we should move to Oklahoma." My husband didn't really, wasn't really, vibing in California, and so I didn't wanna move. I was like, "No, 'cause I'm kinda getting my career going. I don't wanna leave." So I had some jobs that I needed to finish up in California, and I figured I would just travel back and forth for work. And the night, the night that my husband leaves in the U-Haul with my dog, I stayed back to finish up the jobs, that very night, he literally had only gone, drove about three hours and I think was in, like, not even Nevada yet, I get a phone call from VH1 and they're like, "Hey, we have this shoot tomorrow with Hulk Hogan and his family, and we wanna know if you're available for makeup, and do you have a dog you could bring also?" I was like, "Oh, okay, a dog." And of course I'm like, "My dog is, like, in Nevada. What am I gonna do?" Well, I was at my brother's and he had a dog, so I borrowed his dog.

16:14Sharon TabbBut the reason they needed the dog, the reason... Sorry. The reason they needed the dog was, it was called, it was a, it was a sh… it was a photo shoot about stars and their pets. That was literally the whole shoot. And at the time, I guess the Hogans lived in, Florida, and so they were in California and they couldn't fly their pet, so they needed a dog. So what is really even funnier about the whole shoot is it was a golden retriever, and it had a collar on that said OU Sooners. So, like, when you see this photo of the Hogans with my brother's dog, you can literally see OU Sooners. And I don't know if you know much about Oklahoma, but you know, sports are a big deal here, especially college sports. So it's just really funny. It's like, okay, so Oklahoma's already getting, like, brought into Hollywood even though it doesn't really know it yet. And so that was kinda like my first little bit. So we moved to Oklahoma. I... All this work in LA picked up for me, so I just was traveling back and forth so much that within two years, I, we had to just basically move back to California, 'cause I had fell into this, like, various TV show after TV show.

17:22Sharon TabbOkay, now I'm just gonna fast-forward. The, this was around the time of, oh, the recession, 2009… ... 2010. Things kinda started slowing down. I was still getting good work, but it was just still hard with a family and trying to freelance and all that good stuff.

17:39Jawad MirSure.

17:40Sharon Tabb2011, we decide we're moving to Oklahoma, we're moving for good. I'm just gonna have to, like, take a break from LA and wait till my kids are older. Okay. We came in on a Tuesday night in Oklahoma. The very next day, had not even been 24 hours, I get a phone call like, "Hey, we got this film in Oklahoma. We're doing a feature film with Chris Kattan. Would you be interested in, interviewing for the department head?" I was literally like, "Wait a minute." Like, I hadn't even made a big advertisement that I was back in Oklahoma. It... And I'm telling you, since that moment, I have been so busy, and it has been nonstop, and I have seen the way the Oklahoma film industry has grown. I have grown as an artist. I, my projects have just gotten better and better, and I just feel like LA ended up coming here and so did I, and it was just literally, it just felt, you know, like I was in the right place at the right time. And I worked really hard to get here too, though. I mean, I've been doing this 34 years. So I just, it's just crazy, like how you can make it work wherever you end up. You do not have to be in a big city, and, I am proof of that.

18:44Jawad MirYeah.

18:45Sharon TabbSo…

18:45Jawad MirOf course, and you have to... You know, in order to make luck, you have to work hard. In order to be at the right place at the right time, you have to work hard. You just c… you can be at the right place at the right time, and you may get a break, but if you haven't worked hard enough, then you're not gonna go f… you know, follow through it for long term.

19:00Sharon TabbOh, absolutely.

19:02Jawad MirSo I'm glad that you... I'm glad you brought that up.

19:02Sharon TabbNo, absolutely. I know, and it's just been really... It's just been, it's just been so incredible. And then, you know, what's wild is that year, 2011, when we moved here, I noticed, my projects were majo… a lot of them, majority of them were Native based. I worked with the Chickasaw Nations, and I worked with the Choctaw Nation, and, so many different tribes, so I feel like I... That was another learning experience for me. I got to learn so much. It was, it was a little like being in history, and so then I feel like by the time Reservation Dogs came around and me working with Sterlin and a… all that, those amazing people, it just like, it was just kinda like, wow, this is just... Like, it just keeps getting better. It keeps getting just... I don't know. It's just, it's just evolving so beautifully.

19:47Jawad MirYeah.

19:47Sharon TabbAnd I've been very fortunate. I feel very fortunate and lucky, for sure.

19:52Jawad MirNo, that's, that's phenomenal, and mostly you have been occupied with TV projects, correct?

19:58Sharon TabbYeah, TV, but I've also, you know, commercials, documentaries, and feature films, so yeah, qui… a wide range.

20:08Jawad MirCorrect me if I'm wrong, on IMDb, I don't know what the credit was, but Killer of the Flower Moon, did you work on that in some capacity?

20:13Sharon TabbOkay. So I got asked to work on the project, however, Reservation Dogs was finishing up, and so they were kinda overlapping in a weird way to where I didn't actually get to go work on the actual, like, production part of it, but as soon as Res Dogs wrapped, I got very lucky, and I got asked to come in and do EPK, so it is a weird credit on there. It's…

20:34Jawad MirYes

20:34Sharon Tabb... I just got to work a week doing EPK interviews with some of the cast. And that was amazing in itself, too, 'cause I got to work with two of my favorite actors, and I got to learn so much about them, and that was just a dream. And I can mention them. It was John Lithgow and Brendan Fraser, and they were so incredibly gracious and kind people, so that was…

20:55Jawad MirI thought you were gonna say DiCaprio and De Niro.

20:57Sharon TabbI know.

20:58Jawad MirI was like...

20:59Sharon TabbNope. I'm telling you, John Lithgow a… and Brendan, I was just literally like as... I mean, you know, I grew up watching both of them, and then just seeing, like, what kind of people they were. And I could tell. Like, I mean, they were just... Th… again, they were artists. They were doing what they love. They were passionate. They were kind. And, that's what I love about documentaries, 'cause I got to do the EPK. You just kinda get to see a different side of people…

21:20Jawad MirYeah

21:21Sharon Tabb... And it's, I just... And you get to hear some, like, you know, stories, off camera, and then you get to hear the ones on camera, and you're just like, "Ah, man, that is just really cool." Yeah.

21:30Jawad MirWell, Jo… John Lithgow is actually, one of my favorite films he starred in the '80s, Harry and the Hendersons. It's incredible.

21:38Sharon TabbOh, I know.

21:39Jawad MirRight? Is that a great film?

21:39Sharon TabbI'm telling you, he is, like, one of my favorites. He's incredible. He's a legend.

21:44Jawad MirYeah. And the thing is, like, you know, whether you're doing doc... So I have directed several documentaries, feature documentaries, and in terms of the story, what you talked about, like off and on camera, even though, at least in my experience, there's a person who is being himself or herself on the camera, sometimes they are as true as they are to in behind the camera, but sometimes they sort of protect their certain parts of their life, you know, for obvious reasons.

22:14Sharon TabbYeah.

22:15Jawad MirWhat kind of... Whether it's a doc or whether it's a narrative film or TV show, you know, you're probably the only person in the entire film crew department who spends the most amount of time af… aside from the production, like the actual in front of the camera work…

22:30Sharon TabbYeah

22:30Jawad Mir... Like, you know, some de… depending on the makeup, it could be one hour, it could be five hours, it could be 12 hours. Any of the stories that resonate with you, whether it's with John Lithgow or Brendan Fraser or even on Lowdown, Ethan Hawke, that, you know, that you, it remains with you, that has nothing to do with the film but just sort of learning about them as pure human beings?

22:53Sharon TabbOh, yeah. There's, there's, like, so many, and…

22:56Jawad MirWhat stands out?

22:56Sharon Tabb... You know what's funny? I re… Ugh. Well, let me just tell you what. I really wish I had documented a lot of stuff, because when I lived in LA, I worked with so many actors from the '70s and the '80s, and I remember there were so many, like, so many inspirational stories you would get to hear, and like you said, on and off camera. And because time goes by and you move on, and I'm very ADD, it's like a lot of those, I don't remember everything, and I wish I would have kept a journal. So maybe I should start doing that, keep a journal just so I can remember for my own personal reasons. I'm not gonna write a book about it. But anyway, okay, so what would stand out? Oh man, there's so many. Okay, yeah, 'cause you get to see, you get to see another side of them. I mean, they're, they're humans, you know what I mean? And the, in the makeup room, especially when they get to know you a little bit and they realize they can trust you know, they'll share things with you that you know you don't share with anybody else, and, but you learn so much about them. And I personally just, like, growing as a human, I learned so much from these people, because they've gone through, they've gone through so much.

24:01Sharon TabbYou know, people that you would never imagine, that you think, like, oh, they're a celebrity, they're…

24:05Jawad MirYeah

24:05Sharon Tabb... They're g… they've got this, like, perfect life. No. A lot of them have been through a lot of stuff. And they'll share things with you. They'll share whether it's, meditation. I know, like, I worked with Peter Coyote seven or eight years ago, and, you know, he's a Buddhist monk, and, he's all about meditation. And even though I don't meditate regularly, like, that did s… instill something in me to where I know I need to meditate, because when you're around him and you see his calmness and, you know, so it's, that's just, like, one example. There was another actor that I worked with. Should I, should I name... Should I name projects?

24:43Jawad MirIt's up to you. It's up to you.

24:44Sharon TabbOkay. I probably, like some of them I won't, but like I know Peter, that's not a big deal 'cause that's not like any type of secret. But, there was an actor that I worked with on a series a few years ago, and, I'm trying to think why they opened up because I couldn't believe they opened up about it. They just brought up like a book. A book or a podcast. Was it a book? No, it was a book. Oh, bo… okay. There's a book called Body, The Body Keeps the Score, and the person that told me about this, it just blew my mind, and he kinda got really real with me about this book and what it did for him and how it helped him get through some really tough times. And so I did... So then after that I started listening to it on tape because, since I travel a lot for work I thought, "Okay, this is probably the best way for me." But yeah, I don't know. It's just things like that. It's like even, it's just like even self-help type stuff, you know?

25:37Jawad MirYeah.

25:38Sharon TabbSo I mean, to me th… those are things that like stand out to me. And then, just how kind many of them are and the things that they do, and you know, they work hard. Like, a lot of these actors, they didn't just get a break and are famous and rich all of a sudden. I mean, these people, they've, they've all worked hard to get where they've been, and they still do. So I think, you know, that's also like a lot of respect that I give to so many of these actors.

26:01Jawad MirYeah. And I think, I'm glad you mentioned that because I have this conversation with people, not just on the podcast but off the podcast. You know, everybody has this perception of everybody just living in a hunky-dory life. You know, even what you said, like they go through a lot of stuff to be where they are, and even where they are it may not be the most perfect place as a lot of people think it is. You know…

26:21Jawad Mir... They could be dealing with some family drama, they could be dealing with some health issues, who knows, right? And I also feel that it's very important to be... They're just like, you know, y… it... When you said that people open up to you, I think I've figured out why some people open up to you, some people open up to certain people. I was literally having this conversation with my wife yesterday. So I would sit down with meet… in meetings, you know, whether it's I'm looking for investor or we're just having a casual dinner or whatever, and if I remain quiet they just go on and then they start opening up. And I think the, what I realized in the last five, six years is that if you just sit down quietly and listen to people, they would want to pour their heart out to you s… most of the time if not all the time. And I think a lot of us try to interject, "Oh, you know, this is what I think." It just kind of diminishes their conversation. So I'm... And with your line of work, 'cause you're so focused on the makeup that you're, you know, you also have to pay attention to that, plus you're listening, so that's a really good thing that they do that with you because, you know, they're, they're finding comfort with you.

27:30Sharon TabbYeah. And I've had so many of them. I even had a couple of actors message me even after The Lowdown and they... Like just last week I had somebody wrote me and said, "I just want you to know that you're probably one of my favorite, you're one of the top favorite, reasons why I loved working on The Lowdown." And I just feel like for me as an artist, besides being a good makeup artist, I, like to me, like the fact that I can just help people relax…

27:54Jawad MirYeah

27:54Sharon Tabb... I help people feel comfortable, I'm, I'm helping them give their start to the day, like the fact that I am like helping contribute to that, like I, that makes me feel like hap… more happy than, "Oh, you did the best makeup job ever." That's... No. It's how you make people feel, that's what's gonna, that's what's gonna stick…

28:11Jawad Mir100%

28:11Sharon Tabb... With them. So…

28:12Jawad MirYou should, you know what you should do? You should, obviously you have to get permission from the production, if you start recording all the sessions of you, and then later in life you can literally launch a podcast. I mean, you know how many people would listen to that? Like it's just, you can…

28:27Sharon TabbOh, I know. I know. Oh, that's how I felt. Oh, God, when I did these, I did this series, I did this Canadian show, it's probably been over 10 years ago. It's called Where Are They Now? Or I think that's what…

28:38Jawad MirYeah

28:38Sharon Tabb... It was called. But it was out of, but it was out of Canada.

28:40Jawad MirYeah.

28:40Sharon TabbAnd I got to work with so many people, and I am telling you I could have wrote a book after that 'cause these people, because they had already had their careers, they were just like dishing it out. And like off-camera I was just hearing like, "Oh my God, are you se…", you know what I mean? It was just like…

28:55Jawad MirYeah

28:56Sharon Tabb... Are this is this real life? I mean, we're talking like... Anyway, it was educational, let's just say that. I'm gonna have to try to like, I need to meditate and try to look back and try to reflect on those conversations.

29:09Jawad MirWhere was this filmed? I'm in Canada, so…

29:11Sharon TabbIn LA. We were filming in LA.

29:14Jawad MirOh. Oh, okay.

29:14Sharon TabbYeah

29:14Jawad MirBut it was set in Canada.

29:16Sharon TabbNo. The pr… okay, so the production company, it was, oh my God, I just literally blanked out on their name 'cause I worked with them forever. Anyway…

29:22Jawad MirThat's okay

29:22Sharon Tabb... It was a production company out of C… out of Canada, out of Calgary…

29:27Jawad MirOkay

29:27Sharon Tabb... And they came to LA to shoot this series of…

29:29Jawad MirAh

29:29Sharon Tabb... Basically, Where Are They Now type of thing. And, we had so many episodes, and I'm serious, we went through like the Leave It to Beaver cast, The Love Boat, got to work with Katherine Bach. It just goes on and on. The guy that played BeastMaster…

29:43Jawad MirYeah

29:43Sharon Tabb... Mark, drawing a blank on his last name, he was probably one of the most inspirational ones, and for some reason I literally cannot remember that and I wish I could, 'cause I remember afterwards even the producer was like, "Yeah, I'm gonna send you guys all the information of what all he taught us," 'cause he taught us so much, but God, it was probably 15 years ago.

30:01Jawad MirAmazing. Well, that's awesome. Thank you for sharing.

30:03Sharon TabbIt's like sometimes it's hard to process it all. Anyway, sorry.

30:05Jawad MirNo. I get it. I get it. Because you're dealing with so many names, so many productions. I'm sure you mix up names of actors and your crew members on a different production and vice versa. It's, it's just too much, right?

30:16Sharon TabbYeah, it's just a lot. 'Cause, 'cause sometimes you call them by their cast m… name, sometimes you call them…

30:20Jawad MirYeah

30:20Sharon Tabb... Y… or, no, you call them by their character names and then their cast name, and then it's just like, okay, who are we talking abou… We're talking about number four right now. No, just...

30:28Jawad MirAmazing.

30:28Sharon TabbOr their number. You call them a number 'cause what they are on the call sheet.

30:32Jawad MirYeah. So let's g… let's get back…

30:35Sharon TabbOkay

30:35Jawad Mir... Let's get back to The Lowdown.

30:36Sharon TabbOh, yeah. That's why we're here.

30:38Jawad MirNo. That's fine. I'm always other… interested in other stories too because, you know, that's where, you are here because of all that, right? So…

30:46Sharon Tabb100%.

30:47Jawad Mir... In The Lowdown, I think it was the end of first episode, if my memory serves me right, the whole scene with him in the trunk and… ... Being beaten up and all that. I mean, to me that scene when the kids come on the bike and they just, "Are you a murderer?"

31:04Sharon TabbYeah.

31:04Jawad Mir"Are you a murderer?" I thought that was great. It was really well done, executed…

31:08Sharon TabbOh

31:08Jawad Mir... And they bike away. But for you as a makeup artist and your team, what was the most challenging, work that you had to do on the first two or three episodes, whether it's involving Ethan Hawke or anybody else, and just kinda talk to me how you kind of overcame that. And then I know it's part of your job to do that, but I always find…

31:27Jawad Mir... That no matter what your job is, no matter how many times you've done it, there's always something that comes in the way and you have to figure out a way to around it. So…

31:35Sharon TabbOkay, so you're asking me what was the most challenging of the first three episodes?

31:40Jawad MirYeah, in terms of makeup and, makeup department.

31:45Sharon TabbOkay. Well, okay, well, can... Let's start off with the pilot 'cause

31:51Jawad MirSure

31:51Sharon Tabb... I think we just need, I need to explain a couple of things. Okay.

31:54Jawad MirPlease.

31:54Sharon TabbSo yes, I helped establish, Ethan's injuries and all, and helped, his overall tracking of all the wounds with, 'cause we had to track him, you know, how the bruises is healing and things like that. So for me, that, it was a challenge to be dealing with wounds in every ep… like, every scene. Like, it was every scene to where I feel like it made it a little challenging to just be able to focus the way that I probably would've liked to have with some of the other characters. I mean, don't get me wrong, I was able to do it, but I would say that it was just a lot of kind of just like, I feel like I was kind of being tugged here or there. And also it was the pilot. We didn't know 100% it was getting picked up, so there's just that extra pressure. So, and I think that was with everybody. We just like, "We have gotta make this good. Everything's gotta be..." And that's probably just me internally thinking like, you know, everything's gotta be perfect. So at, when we knew we were getting picked up, Ethan does have a personal makeup artist, and so when we went to episode two, we were able to b… bring David on.

32:55Sharon TabbSo when I found that out, as much as I love Ethan, it was such a, it was so great because then I'm like, "Okay, great," because I remember after the pilot thinking, "How am I gonna do this?" Like, we're gonna have to get another artist that can either handle the rest of the cast or like, you know, it would just be great if he had a personal... I didn't actually know he had a personal. He actually never mentioned it because he was so focused, we were so focused on what we were doing, and it just didn't get brought up. And I'm not gonna say, "Hey, this is, you know, a challenge," 'cause it, you know, it, I wouldn't, it was, it was just, you know, a process. So that was, that was great. And David is so incredible, and he has done so many amazing projects. So when he came on, it just, what it, what it was able to help me with was now moving forward with season two and, or episode two and three, I'm able to really cater a little more to the character development, which was great after episode one, 'cause you gotta kind of, you gotta get to know these characters anyway. Once you start getting to know them and more, you know, you start reading more scripts and you're like, "Okay, this is gonna work better for this character. Oh, that's gonna work better. Let's try this."

33:56Sharon TabbDoes that make sense? So…

33:58Jawad MirYeah

33:58Sharon Tabb... So yeah, so there was that. And then the other thing I wanna bring up is that final beat-up scene in episode one. That was actually cr… that look was actually created by Steven Prouty, which is an artist out of LA. And I did the first beat-up scene, and I ca… and I tracked all the injuries through the whole episode, but then the final one was Steven. So it just, you know what, it takes a lot of people. It takes a village.

34:23Jawad MirYeah.

34:24Sharon TabbIt's, we're all team players here.

34:27Jawad MirI'm so glad you talked about tracking the wound, right? It's a, it's, it's essentially like a continuity thing, right?

34:34Sharon TabbYeah.

34:34Jawad MirNow… ... How... 'Cause sometimes, depending on the production, you sometimes shoot scenes before rather after. Like for example, if somebody, sometimes you may have s… you may have done the, sorry, what's the trunk scene earlier where the wounds were already there, and then you may have done getting the wounds afterwards. I don't know if that was the case, but that sometimes does happen.

35:01Sharon TabbNo, I mean, no, that's exactly what happened. I mean, not with the trunk scene 'cause, but as far as, like, his injuries, like his first series of injuries before the trunk, yeah, we did. We, like, might start, like, I think we had f… I think I had five or six stages of the bruise, and so we might start with three, and we're like, "Okay, well let's, like, hope for the best," you know? It's just, I mean, we already had a final, we knew what final look we were gonna do w… with when he gets beat up that first time when the, when the guys come in his apartment and beat him up. But again, it is, it is hard to go backwards, you know? It's kinda like, okay. But you know, I just, I study bruising. I, look up the stages of healing, and I just, I try to draw it out, paint it out, and then I just, I just keep that as a visual. I keep it on my phone. I print it out. I put it up on my mirror. And I just know if it's stage one, two, or three, or four, and then you just have to take lots of photos. Yeah.

35:58Jawad MirAnd do you guys ever, I mean, I was gonna ask you this, but you kind of answered it. You have all these reference to, you know, whether there's printouts, photographs, whatever. But in terms of the actual footage, do you guys ever have any sort of, "Okay, hey guys, can we just take a peek at it how this looks on the camera so we can just kinda go into reverse mode?" Or is that a big sort of no?

36:21Sharon TabbOh, no, absolutely. Like, I will, me personally, I will do that. Like, if I'm, like, not sure on something or if the lighting's to me off, or not off, not that, but I'm just saying, like, sometimes even lighting can determine, like, maybe we might have to b… bring it back or maybe we need to intensify it. Like, you have to take all those kind of things into consideration, and sometimes you don't know until you're there, and then you're like, "Oh, let me..." And the DPs, the, everybody's so great. I mean, 'cause everybody's just doing their job and it's like, "Hey, I need to take a look at this bruise. Is it reading right? What do you think?" Or if, you know, I might go up to scripty and be like, "Hey, do you think this is matching enough how it was prior? Or do you think that this is gonna make sense if we go backwards?" You know, it's, it's, it's like, it's, it's a whole everything. Like, I'm, I'm talking with our script supervisor, Tiffany, all the time. Like, "Hey, what do you think?" Or if I'm... W… what's really great about having a relationship with a script supervisor and just, I think it also, because of all of our relationship, we know we're just, you know, we're, we're all very connected that if, like, I, if I'm not… Like, let's say I have to go back and get somebody else ready, and I need to just check something.

37:22Sharon TabbI might message her and just be like, "Hey, how's it looking? Do you think it needs to..." You know, things like that, or I'll have my artist that's on set take photos, send it to me, let's make sure that it looks this way. So it's just c… a constant, like, okay, make sure everything looks good.

37:35Sharon TabbAnd I'm not a control freak. It might sound like that. But I just am having to, like... I'm just, like, trying to make sure everything is covered, 'cause, you know, it's, the camera doesn't lie, so I gotta make sure it all looks good.

37:47Jawad MirAmazing.

37:47Sharon TabbI'm a department head, I guess. I gotta make sure everything's…... Keeps going.

37:49Jawad MirNo, you have to. You have to take the leadership initiative, and even if it comes across as controlling, at the end of the day, that's not what matters. It matters what the…

37:57Sharon TabbIt doesn't matter. I gotta just make sure my job gets done…

38:00Jawad MirYeah

38:00Sharon Tabb... And that our department looks great, and I don't want there to ever be any complaints on makeup. And, I mean, I think we're doing a pretty good job. I think... I mean, I have a great team, and I've been so fortunate to meet, like, these other amazing artists, and you just learn so much. It's always, you're always learning.

38:15Jawad Mir100%. You know, you… ... You used the word complaints, so let me a… I was gonna ask you this anyways. So without naming names, without naming production names or anything, and we all go through e… situations where somebody's unhappy with the work or with the outcome or with the process. That's just life, and we learn from it, and we make ourselves better to prevent from happening it again, and so on and so forth. What was, if there was, which I'm sure there was, an event that production where you kind of... You know, was it in the early stage of your career or even now where somebody wasn't really professional about conveying what they felt about your work or your team's work, and how you took it as an, as a human being, and how it motivated you, to take it to the next step?

39:07Sharon TabbOkay. Oh gosh, you're gonna have to give me a second. Let me think here. So you just wanna know if there's ever been a production…

39:14Jawad MirI'm sh…

39:14Sharon Tabb... That's ever just kind of... Yeah.

39:15Jawad MirYeah, I'm sure there has been. And I don't wanna know the name of the individuals. I don't wanna know the name of the production.

39:20Sharon TabbYeah. Oh, no.

39:21Jawad MirJust to…

39:21Sharon TabbI'm not gonna say anything.

39:22Jawad MirRight. Yeah. I'm just asking in general, like, you know, I've been told when I... You know, that this is not right, so I f… you know, at the moment you, it feels terrible.

39:31Sharon TabbOkay. No, I know exactly, and I can give you an example. And it's happened, I mean, a few times. And you know, here's the deal. I don't take it personal, because sometimes, I mean, it's just... Unless... Well, here, let me just back up.

39:47Jawad MirSure.

39:47Sharon TabbWhat I try to do ahead of time now to avoid that is if I'm establishing a look or there's something new, I will take a photo of it and I will send it to the showrunner and, the director of that, and I'll just be like, "Hey, are we good with this? Do we need to adjust anything?" So I try to avoid that, because, I mean, here's the thing. It's makeup. It can easily be fixed. And I actually do not take, I don't take it personal in any way, shape, or form.

40:12Jawad MirGood.

40:12Sharon TabbUnless, you know, they're being crummy abo… unless they're being crummy about it and being like, "Oh, this is the worst makeup." But I mean, I don't, I f… I haven't really ever heard that. But, yeah, I don't know. I don't really take offense. I mean…

40:24Jawad MirGood

40:24Sharon Tabb... Maybe they could have s… they could have maybe said it differently, but I'm just like, you know what, we're here just to do a job and get it over with. And, I m… as long as we can get it fixed, then I'm... Hey, you know what? It's just art. I mean, I think it happens with lighting. I think it happens with, you know, maybe they don't like the way the lighting is, so you fix it or, you know, whatever, hair. It doesn't matter. You just, you just fix it, whatever. Just make it h… you just gotta make it happen and be,.. I think what I have really learned, especially working, after doing this for so long, you just, number one, you can't not take things personal, and number two, you just gotta be ready on the fly to fix anything. I mean, like, you just gotta be on the fly. You're there to just make it, make it work for them.

41:04Jawad MirYeah. No, that's, that's, that's 100% accurate. And then, and, you know, it is a learning process, and I'm glad that you're documenting all these things because it's like, you know, even in the company level with it's not, like, a production company or s… it may be, like, a bank job, you know, you have to, like, okay, copy this scene person, copy that person just so there's a digital…

41:24Sharon TabbYeah

41:24Jawad Mir... Print left. So you're covering yourself up in case somebody says, "Well, you said this, and you didn't say this." So it's all documented.

41:30Sharon Tabb100%.

41:31Jawad MirYeah.

41:32Sharon Tabb100%. It's like, you know what? Well, they s… he, they said they liked it.

41:36Jawad MirYeah, 100%.

41:36Sharon TabbThey said it was approved. Yeah, I try to just always make sure we're covered or at least just, you know, just so there's less work that has to be done if we don't have to. You know what I, you know what I mean. Like, let's just make it right…

41:45Jawad MirYeah

41:45Sharon Tabb... The first. Let's make it right the first time, 'cause here's the other thing I've really learned when you're working on production. Time is everything. Let's get it fixed now before they go out there and they're waiting for you. They would rather you get it fixed before you get out there, unless sometimes you're in a situation where, like, hey, can you take it and finish it out there? And that's fine. That's something different. But you don't wanna cost production time, like, where they're, like, waiting on... You know, I think that's another thing I think that's made me, is I really take time into consideration as far as, like, I, 'cause I know time is money, and if you're costing production time, they're not gonna wanna deal with it.

42:20Jawad MirYeah.

42:20Sharon TabbYou know what I mean? If you're costing, like, hey, why are they, why is m… Like, I don't think they're ever waiting for makeup, so that, I make that a goal.

42:28Jawad MirAmazing. I'll tell you one thing before we wrap up. So, you know, I saw The Lowdown first two episodes. I just recently saw One Battle After Another. You know, even talking about Killers of the Flower Moon or all these other films that are sort of coming out by people who have been around for a while or, you know…

42:48Jawad Mir... Like good 30, 40 years. I'm so glad to see, including The Lowdown, like these suburban stories, grounded stories, like 1883, 1923. And it's lovely to see that because I don't know if it's the point in my life where I am in right now or if things are changing, 'cause I'm so glad to see this kind of stuff. Like, Lowdown, I'll be very honest with you, I had no idea about the series. And, you know, w… when we did learn about it… I became… I saw the trailer, I became intrigued, then I saw the first two episodes. I was like, "Okay, how come I did not know about this?" But in the land of so much content and so much stuff out there, sometimes the most amazing things get overlooked and missed. So I'm glad that you guys are working on this. This is a great series. I absolutely love it. Probably gonna, you know, wrap up the series, as it comes along and finish it up and of course, and so thank you so much for that.

43:46Sharon TabbOh, thank you. No, it's, it's a, an amazing project to be a part of. I mean, it's just, it's incredible. And every script, I mean, just be ready for a wild ride. You've only seen two episodes? Oh, man, you are in store for something, let's just say that.

44:01Jawad Mir100%.

44:01Sharon TabbI am too. Like, it's funny because now that I see how they're edited, you're just like, "Ah," seeing it come to life, and then the way they put the music in with it, and the way that the cast just... I mean, you know how like some shows you watch and it's like the cast is just so freaking magical? That is this show all the way.

44:17Jawad MirYeah. Yeah. I think scr… it is, it always begins with the screenplay and then the right casting, and then if that's good, everything else falls into place, right? So…

44:25Sharon Tabb1,000%. Yep.

44:26Jawad MirYeah.

44:27Sharon TabbYep.

44:27Jawad MirWhat's…

44:27Sharon TabbYeah

44:27Jawad Mir... What's next for you? Is there anything, exciting that you're working on that you can reveal?

44:32Sharon TabbOh, let me see. Well, yeah, I am on something that I can't reveal unfortunately.

44:36Jawad MirSure.

44:36Sharon TabbBut I mean, I do have another project that's gonna be in theaters November 7th, and that's Sarah's Oil. And so…

44:43Jawad MirOoh, what's…

44:43Sharon TabbAnd it's funny you mentioned…

44:44Jawad MirWhat's that about?

44:45Sharon Tabb... Sarah's Oil. Well, it's another true story. Well, this one is actually an actual true story, where, it's a, it's hidden, it's, it's mis… it's history that did not get revealed until now. And I mean, I can t… I mean, I can bring up a little bit what it's about, is, Sarah Rector is a real-life, African American girl from 1913.

45:09Sharon TabbAnd she was a freedman, and so the state gave her a piece of property, and I guess they did her siblings as well. But most of the time back then when you got a piece of land, n… normally the low-income people couldn't afford to keep the land, so they would sell it.

45:28Jawad MirSure.

45:28Sharon TabbAnd so this, I don't know how much more I can reveal, but I don't think it's…

45:32Jawad MirThat's fine.

45:32Sharon TabbDaria, can I, can I…

45:35Jawad MirNo

45:35Sharon Tabb... G… give the plot? Okay, sorry.

45:37Jawad MirThat's fine. The trailer is out there, so I'll check it out. I just…

45:40Sharon TabbYeah.

45:40Jawad MirYeah.

45:41Sharon TabbI like one of... I, it's like I get very excited about it 'cause it's basically hidden... It's another hidden part of history that should've been told, and I get very excited about it 'cause it's pr… it's an incredible story, like truly incredible.

45:55Jawad MirOh, that's amazing.

45:55Sharon TabbSo…

45:55Jawad MirI'm, I'm looking forward to it

45:55Sharon Tabb... You gotta see what happens with Sarah and her land. But yeah, look at, watch the trailer and it's, it's got a great cast.

46:03Jawad MirI will, and maybe we can chat about that when that comes out.

46:06Sharon TabbYeah. Yeah, that'd be great, yeah.

46:08Jawad MirAmazing. Anything else you wanna add, for The Lowdown?

46:11Sharon TabbYeah, I would like to add one more…

46:13Jawad MirSure

46:13Sharon Tabb... Is I have another project that will be in theaters on Easter of next year, and it's called A Great Awakening, and that is gonna be another amazing project, and it's got, Ben Franklin. And so it's a period piece about Ben Franklin and, about another character named George Whitfield that's a real-life person. So it's like I end up working on a lot of things that are true or partially true, you know? So it's pretty awesome.

46:40Jawad MirSuper.

46:40Sharon TabbAnd so…

46:41Jawad MirThat's really…

46:41Sharon TabbYeah. Exciting.

46:42Jawad MirWell, and amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat The Lowdown on Hulu, and I think it has, what, total eight or nine episodes, right?

46:49Sharon TabbIt has eight.

46:50Jawad MirEight.

46:51Sharon TabbEight.

46:51Jawad MirThank you so much.

46:52Sharon TabbOh, thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me.