Directing 'Mustache', Imran J. Khan

0:00Jawad MirYou've been an editor, you worked at Walt Disney. I've kinda gone through that same route writing my first feature. When I was writing, I was writing as an editor. Talk to me about your process. Was that helpful?

0:12Imran J. KhanYeah, that's such a great question. I think people, when they would read the script, would comment on that, and like, "Oh, this feels like it has the eye of an editor in there," because of the way I would get in and out of scenes, and kinda get to the heart of the thing, and then move on. That is because I think like an editor.

0:28Jawad MirYou had Alicia Silverstone in the film, because she was a big star in the '90s, right? Like Clueless.

0:33Imran J. KhanYeah.

0:33Jawad MirWas it really easy to get her on board?

0:34Imran J. KhanWell, first of all, I'm gonna commend you on, you're one of the few people who pronounces her first name right. A lot, most people who when I'm talking to in interviews or anything, they're, they say Alicia.

0:45Jawad MirThere was just something about that you introduced him in such a amazing and a discreet way where you're like, "Okay, this is Ilyas."

0:53Imran J. KhanThe dream scenario with coming into a movie is that you're interested in the, in the protagonist, and you wanna know where they go.

1:09Jawad MirI wanted to start off by asking a very obvious question, which, to me seems like an obvious, but I just have to ask it from… ... A standpoint of the audience. You know, how much of Ilyas' journey comes from your own personal life, if that's something you're willing to share?

1:26Imran J. KhanYeah, no, totally. I think, I think that's a, that's a question that comes up a lot, and essentially, the way I like to answer the question is that there are things that are in the movie that mirror things that happened to me. I did go to a private Islamic school in northern California. I did, go to a public high school. I did theater in high school. Like, the kind of broad strokes of kind of what Ilyas goes through were things that directly happened to me or that I experienced, and a lot of the family in the movie and the ca… a lot of the c… characters in the movie are, like, based on people I knew growing up. And so…

2:06Imran J. Khan... In that way, it's like, you know, it's, it's, it's got, like, a little bit of an autobiographical feel to it. But then at the same time, like, the movie is fictionalized. It's, it's a, like, a fictional account of sort of things that have happened to me, and…

2:22Imran J. Khan... And it isn't necessarily,.. Yeah, like, the events in the film are fiction. So it's, it's like taking your real life, experiences and kind of putting them in a blender with your, cinematic, you know, r… your favorite movies and cinematic references and kind of, like, putting that into a blender. And this movie kinda came out of that, where, you know, it's like some of it is just, like, you know, based on films that I love, and then some of it is based on things that happened to me, and it's kind of a mix.

2:56Jawad MirAwesome. And one of the challenges always is, and you seem to be very open about it, but a lot of ti… I mean, all of us who are in the creative field, like whether we're directors, painters, writers, most if not all of the stuff that we work on is truly an expression of our own ways of what we have gone through in life, whether knowingly or unknowingly.

3:17Jawad MirHow much... Was it ever a reluctancy for you to sort of put that out there and also say, "You know what? Hey, it's been sort of inspired my, by my life." Because sometimes people are very s… you know, sort of, they are reluctant to talk about that this is kind of my life.

3:33Imran J. KhanYeah

3:34Jawad MirWas there a reluctancy when you were writing and when you were…

3:36Imran J. KhanYeah, totally

3:37Jawad Mir... Getting it ready for this?

3:38Imran J. KhanI mean, I mean, totally. I think, I think there is that aspect of writing, about your life where you're... I mean, I remember early drafts of the script, and just sharing it with people, and just feeling like, I don't, I'm scared for people to read this, because it is sort of based on my life, and there's something per… very personal about the film. And that is definitely scary. And then, and then there... But there is something that happens after that where,.. Well, like, two things. One is that the thing that you're scared about writing is probably the thing you should be writing about, because that's…

4:15Imran J. Khan... Like, this was such a, like, a weird sort of awkward transition in my life, and an awkward time in my life in that, for a lot of reasons. And so it was, it was, like, something I pro… like, I didn't want to fic… like, write a movie about, but that was also the reason I felt like I, it, there was something there. Like, if there's a reason I don't wanna talk about something, then maybe there's something there that's actually important to talk about. And then secondly, like, once you kind of externalize an experience, and maybe this is just the s… the power of storytelling in general, where once you externalize, a narrative, into a p… a work of fiction, and now it lives as a script or as a movie, there's something about it that you, the thing that you're so afraid of people knowing about you, it, you get f… you sort of feel free from that. And it kind of, it kind of becomes its own thing that you don't have that fe… like, you lose that fear of, "I ca… are people gonna watch this?

5:20Imran J. KhanAre people gonna read this?" Like, is that s… you know? And I think there's something true about the process of externalizing an experience that you have, and then, and then that kinda freeing you from, like, whatever the shame or embarrassment of sharing that thing with people. And I definitely felt that. Like, the more I was, the deeper I got into writing this film and then making the film, it felt like this thing was, like, fully externalized now, and that it wa… it wasn't, so tied to my identity. Even though it came from me, it feels like this external thing that now exists, and I can kind of look at it like that, and it doesn't feel like this thing that I'm afraid of. Like, "Oh, my God, I can't believe people might see this movie." So it's a weird thing. You kind of go through a process, I think, with something like this.

6:10Jawad MirI bet. I bet. Was there a time when you were writing or when you were on the set, a certain memory of yours got, for the lack of better word, triggered? And not necessarily a bad one or a good one, but whatever, and it made you really emotional, like it really hit you home, whether that's through writing process or directing?

6:34Imran J. KhanI think that happened all the time, I would say. It was like an emotional experience to be making the film, especially when it came to seeing the production design, and the sort of like costumes, and the, and like w… you know, stepping on the set, and like especially the h… the family's home, like Ilyas's home in the movie. It wasn't like it looked like my house growing up exactly or anything like that. It was just there was, there was something about the feeling of it that really did remind me of my home growing up. And so that was very surreal to kind of be like, it's all, yeah, and it does, it does like feel like a kind of time trav… a time travel to see, to kind of experience your life again, you know?

7:26Imran J. KhanAnd even though it's like actors playing the parts and they're wearing costumes and you're in a, there's a, there's, you know, they production designed a home to look kind of like it could have looked like in the '90s and all that stuff, it's still, it's still, there was something there that was like, that transported me back, and it was just, it's very strange. It's surreal. It's, it's like almost like out of body. And…

7:54Jawad MirIt's great

7:54Imran J. Khan... And you, but you know, you have that moment like hits you where you're like, "Wow, this is crazy we're doing this." And then, and then you kind of have to, you know, roll your sleeves up and make your day and shoot the things you need to shoot. And so you kind of have to switch into kind of a mode of, "All right. We have to like shoot these scenes." But that was happening all the time. A… and even like the fundraiser scene near the end of the film, that also felt very like ripped from my experiences growing up, going to mosque fundraisers or, different kinds of, causes, and the feeling of what those kind of events felt like with, especially with the Muslim community that I grew up in and all that. So that's very like surreal, and you're just like, "Wow, this is so crazy that they let me like recreate this," kind of these im… these i… these things from my movie, that now are, now are like physically, we've like recreated something from my memories.

9:00Imran J. KhanAnd that's very strange and surreal. But I think it's also like maybe why a lot of the reaction I've been getting with the film in, is related to this element where people feel transported back to a time that they experienced when they were young, and they never reali… they never like expected to see that world again. You know? Like especially because it's such a, it's such a, it's kind of like a subculture. It's a niche within the American experience where…

9:32Imran J. Khan... You know, if you grew up in a, in the, in a Muslim or Pakistani community, like you maybe don't expect to see a movie that captures that, and I think that's been really interesting to hear from people where they're just like, "Wow, I can't believe you like were able to like recreate that feeling and that time." and yeah, it's just super, m… I, me, even when I watch the movie now, I'm like, "Wow," I'm like, "I can't believe they let me do this in a way."

10:00Jawad MirBut you know, you said s… you said something very important, and I talk about this, to people, not just, you know, when I'm, when I'm… making my films and if I'm talking about the work and if I'm try… trying to raise capital and somebody's saying, "Oh, well, why don't you, why is it so hard to raise money?"

10:17Jawad MirAnd I, you know, the thing is that I find, and you probably found this too, and I think it's connected to this thing, we as South Asians/Muslims, Pakistanis, whatever, we are very afraid of sharing our vulnerabilities.

10:32Jawad MirAnd the communities does not understand that with vulnerabilities comes a sense of understanding of that community…

10:40Imran J. KhanYes, of course

10:40Jawad Mir... Because that's what connects, right?

10:42Imran J. KhanYeah.

10:43Jawad MirAnd that's what I loved about your film, and that's why I asked you this, is because you were able to share those vulnerabilities, because ridiculous amount of people have vulnerabilities, if not all of them.

10:52Jawad MirYou know? So it's really awesome that you did that, and I truly appreciate that because people need to start seeing that. I mean, people like us, we know this, but people outside of the artistic world, they just don't get it. It's very difficult to penetrate through that.

11:06Imran J. KhanI think, I think, and there's a, that's a really interesting point you're bringing up because I think there's, there's a lot of history with that. So l… I think with whe… whether you're Muslim, you're South Asian, you're Pakistani, I think you have experienced a lot of negative... You're, you're, you know, we're all kind of traumatized in different ways. Like we've experienced such negative portrayals of our community on screen, T… TV and film. And so I think the first…

11:33Jawad MirInteresting

11:33Imran J. Khan... Instinct people have is to be like, "Oh, we need to portray ourselves as sort of these model m… this, you know, model citizens who are the victim of things or that we're,.." You know, like your first, your first instinct of what you want us to look like on screen is something like incredibly positive and just like almost like, you know, unrealistically positive. And I think, but I think with that, you don't, y… you don't achieve the thing you're trying to achieve actually because what you do is you just create like a PSA. You know, you create…

12:13Jawad MirYeah

12:13Imran J. Khan... Like, a public service announcement version of what, you know, you want your message to come through that, "Oh, you know, this is who we are and this is what we're like." But I think you don't, people don't connect with that because it just feels like it's just, there's nothing human there t… for them to connect to. It's just a message about a pos… like, it's purely only, like, there to serve, you know, like, to counter a narrative, right? It's all, yeah, it's, it's all... It, that's, I guess, one way to put it. It's like it's only…

12:42Jawad MirYeah

12:42Imran J. Khan... There to serve to counter a narrative. Okay, and it may even do that, and it might do that great, but I don't think people will connect with that on a deeper level. But if you show us as who we really are, and you'd go in and with… without the fear of, and the baggage of what those negative narratives are out there, then I think you can do something more interesting that people actually will connect with, because they'll see themselves in the flaws of characters. And I think that connection is, universal. Like, the, just when you explore, when you go deep enough in the human condition, we're kind of all the same, and I think that's really powerful, and I think that's what people see in n… in films. That's what makes me wanna watch films. Like, I watch films that are from cultures that I have very little

13:31Jawad MirKnowledge of

13:32Imran J. Khan... Culturally in common with, or even…

13:33Jawad MirYeah

13:33Imran J. Khan... Like, familiarity with, and yet I can connect so deeply to a film that's about a Japanese family or a film about, you know, people who, like whalers in Alaska or, like…

13:48Jawad MirYeah

13:48Imran J. Khan... Whatever, like, these, like, really obscure things that on their surface could be really niche, but then but what connects us all is that we're human and we're struggling. We, every, you know, people struggle with, family and relationships no matter what culture they're in or where they're from.

14:04Imran J. KhanAnd I think it's like, if we're going to participate in this, in the practice of storytelling, then we need to be able to be vulnerable on screen. And I think…

14:14Jawad MirI…

14:14Imran J. KhanIt's really, it's interesting because the act… actor who's, you know, c… also, like, an EP, an execu… executive produ… executive producer on our film, Riz Ahmed, he's like, he's like so, he's, like, articulated this so well in interviews where our humanity is our vulnerability. And when you put characters on screen that aren't vulnerable, then there's no humanity for people to ri… latch onto. There's, there's just, like, these perfect things that are like, "Hey, we're, we're Muslim, and we're, and we're, we're good people." It's like, that's not... That's nice for maybe, like, a, like an essay or…

14:54Jawad MirOr like a religious documentary, right? Like, we're trying to make a movie.

14:57Imran J. KhanYeah. But if you're trying to touch people's hearts, that's not going to really, like, work in the, in the medium of film or in storytelling.

15:05Jawad MirYeah.

15:06Imran J. KhanBut they connect…

15:07Jawad MirYeah

15:07Imran J. Khan... With just people struggling and trying to persevere through that and having flaws and overcoming them.

15:12Jawad MirI think I agree with you. I never thought of it that way, what you mentioned about the portrayal hasn't been good, which I completely agree.

15:19Imran J. KhanYeah.

15:19Jawad MirBut I also think, bec… and I've seen this from experience, where, without naming names, Pakistanis living in the diaspora…

15:29Imran J. KhanYeah

15:29Jawad Mir... If they, if they want to fund a project that's about Pakistan, they just don't wanna have any negative image of Pakistan coming out…

15:37Imran J. KhanYeah

15:37Jawad Mir... Because it will, you know…

15:38Imran J. KhanYeah

15:39Jawad Mir... Give reasons for others to sort of, you know…

15:41Imran J. KhanYeah

15:42Jawad Mir... Capitalize on that. But that's what I mean. So I think, I think people, I'm beginning to see that. And also, I mean, even Riz Ahmed's film Hamlet, which I absolutely love.

15:51Imran J. KhanYeah.

15:51Jawad MirYou know, it was fantastic.

15:53Imran J. KhanThat's awesome.

15:53Jawad MirAnd it was a good, it was a good take on the story that we all know about.

15:56Imran J. KhanYeah, that w… that wedding scene is, like, amazing. I don't know.

15:59Jawad MirYeah.

16:00Imran J. KhanYeah, it's just, it blew me away. Anyway. Just the way…

16:03Jawad MirYeah, no

16:03Imran J. Khan... That, yeah.

16:04Jawad MirSo it's good. That, man, that's awesome. So let me talk to you about, you know, and please if I, if I'm stepping over, just tell me.

16:11Imran J. KhanOh, no.

16:11Jawad MirI try not to make things personal, but because your film is extremely personal.

16:15Imran J. KhanYeah.

16:15Jawad MirYou know, the whole element about the religious element, right?

16:18Imran J. KhanYeah.

16:19Jawad MirLike, were you born, were you born in States? Or are you…

16:21Imran J. KhanYeah, I was born

16:22Jawad Mir... Like, in…

16:22Imran J. KhanI was born in Northern California. Yeah.

16:24Jawad MirOkay.

16:25Imran J. KhanSo my parents came from Pakistan, yeah.

16:27Jawad MirDid you ever go back?

16:29Imran J. KhanYeah, I grew up, I grew up going... We used to go back, like, every other summer. We would spend the summers in Pakistan. We used to have more family there, and so there was more of a reason to go there, you know, and b… and spend time there. But now most of my family, almost all of my, like, direct family relatives in Pakistan have moved to the States.

16:53Imran J. KhanAnd so, and we're scattered…

16:54Jawad MirYou know

16:54Imran J. Khan... Around the States.

16:55Jawad MirYeah.

16:55Imran J. KhanBut there's less reason to go back to Pakistan, so I haven't really been there since 2013. I actually shot a short film there in 2013, and that was the last time…

17:03Jawad MirOh

17:03Imran J. Khan... I spent time in Pakistan, yeah.

17:06Jawad MirNice. So going back to the question with the, you know, you clearly show in the story that, you know, going to Islamic school, and you just mentioned that in a…

17:14Imran J. KhanYeah

17:14Jawad Mir... In a podcast, and going to public school. Where you are in life now, do you... Where do you stand on that? Like… ... Is it something... 'Cause I, there's Islamic schools in Canada too, right?

17:28Imran J. KhanYeah.

17:29Jawad MirAnd we all have our views, right? And I personally believe, and I came here 36 years ago, and I personally believe that it has its benefits. But being in a Western country, sometimes it gets a little too much, right? I…

17:45Imran J. KhanYeah

17:45Jawad Mir... Just kind of a feeling that I have.

17:48Imran J. KhanYeah, I mean, I feel, I don't know if I have, like, the o… the, like, I th… I think, I think there's a lot of valid reasons to put a child in an Islamic school, and there's probably a lot of valid reasons to not. I think, I think I, and every parent sort of has their own…... Reasons for, what they think is best. And so I kind of like, I don't know, I just think you get, you can get different things from different experiences. I think if, I think there's something about, you know, not being in an Islamic school or just being in like a public or any other kind of private school where you may learn other skills related to kind of how other people live and how other people, like other kinds of people, what their, what the norms are, and you may, you may be able to, navigate that in a more like sophisticated way because you're exposed to that m… more and not kind of in a, you could say like a bubble of people who are like-minded.

18:55Imran J. KhanThere's value to that. And I know a lot of people growing up who have s… like kind of a stronger sense of like, I don't know what the word would be, but like code switching or like s… social skills because they were like not in an Islamic school or... But I, but I also think there's something to being in an Islamic school where you learn, you have a stronger sense of your like Mus… identity as a Muslim and being…

19:23Imran J. Khan... Like confident in that because it's not, it's not something that's you... It's in, it's never, for the first years of your life, it's not something in contrast with the people around you. It's something that you feel very confident and strong in. I think that's something that I got from being in an Islamic school, was that like just sense of like that being, that being, there's nothing like wrong with being Muslim, and I think, and that is a positive. And then there's other things you learn, you know, if language is important, if like Arabic language is important, that's…

19:56Jawad MirYeah

19:56Imran J. Khan... A positive. There's things like, and that I guess just comes down to what, whatever parents like feel…

20:02Jawad Mir100%

20:02Imran J. Khan... Is like valuable to them and like what experience they want their kid to have and what they want their kid to get out of those experiences, and that could be public school, that could be Islamic school. Like I don't know if I have like a strong like... And I don't know if the movie is necessarily speaking about that actually. Like I think the movie is like…

20:21Jawad MirNo, it's not

20:22Imran J. Khan... You know what I mean? Like it, I guess you could take that away from the film, but I think that would be based... I think everybody would have a different point of view on that. Like, oh, is it, is it positive, is it not? But I, but I do think one thing that's interesting about Ilyas as a character in the movie is that, is that I don't think he's like, I don't think, I think that what's, what's interesting to me and maybe one of the reasons I wanted to make the film was like, I think it's interesting to have the point of view of a character who's not necessarily struggling with, "Do I wanna be Muslim or not?" I think he's struggling with other aspects of his identity and other c… and sort of existing in a, in a dua… in a world where he doesn't quite belong in sort of either scenario very well and I think that was interesting to me. But it, he's never like, "Do I wanna be Muslim or not?" I think, I think I was like, what if there was a story where that's taken as like that's, that's what he's not necessarily fighting that battle, but a, but a different set of battles you could say that are re… that have, that aren't related to that.

21:24Imran J. KhanBecause I've seen in a lot of movies and television where it's like people are trying to rebel against sort of their, the belief system…

21:34Jawad MirTheir faith. Yeah

21:34Imran J. Khan... Yeah, faith itself. And it's like, okay, that's a, that's a valid experience for a lot of people and like those, tho… I've seen those movies kind of and what they provide, and I think that's really interesting and like, and also valid. But I was like trying to come at it from a different point of view that was like, more similar to my own experience as well as like the experience of a lot of people around me and a lot of my friends, and I just didn't see that experience like portrayed necessarily. And so the movie kinda came out of like thinking about that point of view. I hope that makes sense. And I mean, yeah, if you…

22:11Jawad MirYeah, no, it does.

22:12Imran J. Khan... Have a question.

22:13Jawad MirAnd I, no, dude, you are absolutely right. I wasn't, I wasn't trying to suggest in any way a negative portrayal of this or that.

22:20Imran J. KhanYeah.

22:20Jawad MirI was... It was just more so from the standpoint of because what happened to Ilyas, right, in that story, you see like him just being involved in one community, which is fantastic.

22:33Imran J. KhanYeah.

22:33Jawad MirBut it ki… it kinda becomes like a melting pot, right?

22:36Imran J. KhanSure.

22:36Jawad MirBut that being, at least that's what I got, I don't know if that was your intention, being in that world and, but especially being pressured from the family, like the dad, right? Because that was the biggest thing more than anything else. Ilyas found creativity, right?

22:53Jawad MirLike then he found the drama s… class and…

22:55Imran J. KhanYeah

22:56Jawad Mir... And that, and that, by the way, and that performance, that scene in the end, the fundraiser, and how the mom says, you know, "That's my son."

23:04Imran J. KhanYeah.

23:04Jawad MirDude, that was phenomenal.

23:05Imran J. KhanOh, thank you.

23:05Jawad MirThat was like a, my favorite moment in the scene.

23:08Imran J. KhanI think, I think the complexity of what he, what he goes through in the film is worth a lot of discussion in terms of what, people's own points of view are on different things. But like, I think, I think all that discussion is valid and I think that, and I think my job as a filmmaker, and especially with a f… story like this, is like present things as like honestly as I…

23:35Imran J. Khan... Felt them at that age and as honest, honestly as I can as a filmmaker, and then kind of r… surrender to whatever... Like that was my approach really was like, how honest can I be about like what I felt like, what I th… what I used to think at that age, and how I, how I navigated things, and how people around me navigated things. And then after that, it's like you kinda just have to like a s… hope that there's enough truth in there's enough there that people will latch onto, and that they find value in, and then let it go because I can't... Again, every, e… e… you could make 100 different Pakistanis or Muslims could make 100 different movies.

24:18Jawad MirYeah.

24:19Imran J. KhanThey would be…

24:20Jawad Mir100%

24:20Imran J. Khan... Different on how they think about all of these things we're talking about, whether it's Islamic school, whether it's religion, whether it's Pakistani culture, whether it's whatever. And all I can do is do my, is provide my, like, honest take and h… my honest experience, and then have to kinda leave it. I can't, I can't make a movie that makes every single person, like, feel like…

24:43Jawad MirRight

24:43Imran J. Khan... "Oh yeah, this is what I agree with." It's like I don't know what that…

24:46Jawad MirYeah

24:46Imran J. Khan... Would be, and I don't know if it'd be even valuable for anybody, so. Yeah.

24:50Jawad MirNo. It's… it's… it's not a, it's not a political movie, right? It's, it's Ilyas's movie.

24:54Imran J. KhanYeah.

24:54Jawad MirAnd which…

24:55Imran J. KhanYeah

24:55Jawad Mir... Which I will tell you, the moment the story started and Ilyas came into frame, like, I just had this feeling that this is Ilyas, even though I've never known him. I don't know anything about him other than the j… it was just this, I don't know if it was the way you did the whole, the sh… the closeup of the skin…

25:13Imran J. KhanShaver

25:13Jawad Mir... And cutting.

25:13Imran J. KhanYeah.

25:14Jawad MirRight, and all of that. But there was just something about that you introduced him in such a amazing and a discrete way where you're like, "Okay, this is Ilyas, and I'm hooked, and I wanna know where he's going."

25:26Imran J. KhanWell, that's, that, I love hearing that. That sounds, that's like the dream scenario with coming into a movie, is that you're, you're interested in the, in the protagonist and you wanna know where they go. So that's, that's great to hear.

25:38Jawad MirYeah. I, you had Alicia Silverstone… ... In the film. Talk to me about how, because she was a big star in the '90s, right? Like, when we were…

25:49Imran J. KhanYeah

25:49Jawad Mir... Growing up, she was, you know, she was Clueless, right?

25:51Imran J. KhanYeah.

25:51Jawad MirOne of the most popular movies.

25:52Imran J. KhanYeah, of course.

25:53Jawad MirAnd getting her in, was that always supposed to be Alicia Silverstone, or was it, was there other options, and what was the process of her getting…

26:02Imran J. KhanYeah

26:02Jawad Mir... Was it really easy to get her on board?

26:05Imran J. KhanWell, first of all, I'm gonna commend you on, you're one of the few people who pronounces her first name right. A lot, a lot, most people who when I'm talking to in interviews or in anything, they're, they say Alicia.

26:17Jawad MirYeah.

26:17Imran J. KhanSo yeah, her name is Alicia, and I don't know why it's a thing that, most people don't know. But I, y… the how she came into the film is very interesting. We were already in production. We were already shooting the film, and we were still trying to cast that role, and, that, you know, we, that, those scenes were slated for near, closer to the end of production. And so we had a little bit of time, and we went out to her not knowing if she would say yes or no, and, if she would like the script, if she would wanna do it, if she was available, like, none of those things, and it was just, like, a cool idea. Like, what if we got, and we had an in with her in terms of, like, just, th… we share the same agency and there's, there was ways that we could get the script to her, you know, in sort of in a quick way. And we were just lucky that she liked the script and she was available, and, like, sort of the stars aligned essentially for that to happen.

27:19Imran J. KhanAnd she wanted to do it, and she flew in. I think she was, she was, like, on vacation, and so she on her way back to the States, she, like, stopped in Toronto to, shoot the movie and then go home. So it was like, it just worked out. And it was one of those things you can't predict. You don't know if... She coulda said no, and then we would've tried to, had to scramble to find somebody.

27:44Jawad MirYeah.

27:45Imran J. KhanBut, you know, it's like one of those situations where your top choice says yes, and that's…

27:49Jawad MirThat's awesome, man.

27:50Imran J. KhanYeah.

27:50Jawad MirThat was really great to see her after a while, because in the '90s she was a big deal.

27:54Imran J. KhanYeah.

27:55Jawad MirLike, it, she was a really big deal. You said Toronto, which you mentioned to me earlier that the film was shot in Toronto. Was it, was it because of the community? Was it tax incentives, or was it just something that kinda worked for you to be in Toronto to shoot the film?

28:09Imran J. KhanIt was, it's a, it was a combination of things, but, like, one of those things was the t… the tax incentive for our production and that kind of created the conversation, like, could Toronto work? Because we're still, m… for me, the story was always set in San Jose where I grew up and that wasn't gonna change necessarily, but the question was like, "Oh, can Toronto kinda double as another place, especially the Bay Area?" And what I realized, what, then I kind of went down a rabbit hole of like, I was like, "Oh, what films have been shot in Toronto?" And it's like, oh, Good Will Hunting was shot in Toronto. Like, all these films that you associate with very specific places. Like pla…

28:50Jawad MirYeah

28:50Imran J. Khan... Like movies where they're like, they're like as much about the place as the characters, that the movie, you know. And those m… those kind of movies are also, are shot in, are Toronto. I mean Girls was shot in Toronto. Like, there's a lot of, like, iconic films that are, like, shot in Toronto.

29:07Jawad MirYeah.

29:07Imran J. KhanSo then I was like, oh, that's really... In fact, we actually scouted the high… high school that, where they shot Mean Girls. It was one of the places we, like, visited.

29:13Jawad MirWhich school was it? I forget.

29:15Imran J. KhanI can't remember. I can't remember, but I know it was, like, the school from Mean Girls.

29:19Jawad MirOkay

29:20Imran J. Khan... It's something, it's something Googleable that you can, that we can find out, but it, like…

29:25Jawad MirI'm just curious now.

29:26Imran J. KhanYeah. We sh… we scouted it. It didn't work for a couple reasons, but, like, it was one of the ones that we, that we looked at. But, yeah. So once I kind of like felt comfortable, then I did a trip. I went out there, 'cause I still had this fear of like, oh, what if it doesn't work and it looks like it doesn't feel like what I kind of imagined? And then when I, we went to, I went to Toronto as just a trip by my, like by my, not with, like, the crew or anything or producers.

29:55Imran J. KhanJust kinda by myself with one of the, who, somebody who later became a production manager on the film. And we just went out there, and we were just trying to meet, seeing places. It's actually where I found, on that trip I actually visited the, Islamic school and the masjid, the mosque, that was used in… That we ended up using in the film, I found on that trip. I went and I, and through some connections I went and, found the somewhere. But through that trip I kind of felt like, "You know what? This could work." And I, we visited a bunch of places and locations and things like that, and I was like, "I think this could make a lot of sense." So we did that, and then, and then we shot exteriors in, San Jose.

30:37Imran J. KhanAfter pr… we wrapped, I did, like, all the car shots and, like, just some exterior shots and stuff like that. And I've had people, watch the film in the Bay Area, like where I'm from and be like surprised that it wasn't shot there. So if y… I think there's a, there's a little, that some of that is just sort of the sleight of hand of like if you kind of m… if you kind of blend together the locations in a s… particular way, people kind of just assume it's all that one location.

31:08Jawad MirYeah.

31:08Imran J. KhanSo it worked out really great. And yeah, it was a great place to shoot and for a lot of reasons. It was, it was a great city for crew, for finding extras, for especially when you're looking for culturally specific extras…

31:26Imran J. Khan... Or ethnically specific. It was a great place. It's such a, such a multicultural city. Like, it's, it's, I mean, for food, I mean, I, it's, it's an incredible food city. I mean, I would say I would put it up in the top food cities in the world. Like, just if you, what… whatever you can imagine for…

31:46Jawad MirYeah

31:46Imran J. Khan... A s… any kind of specific cuisine from all over the world, Toronto will have multiple great options for that type of cuisine. Whereas, and a lot of great cities in the world, you, like even I would put New York and LA in those, you, there are s… a more obscure types of cuisine where there might be only one or two good options for.

32:06Jawad MirYeah.

32:06Imran J. KhanMaybe one. And even, and those are like top cities, whereas Toronto will have like five. There'll be like five great options for like that specific thing that you know? So I think it's a, it's in its own, it's in maybe in its own class in terms of, in terms of food and that's, and that maybe speaks to how multicultural the city is in general. Like, and why you can shoot almost anything there because you can, you could, you could probably double Toronto for like a lot of places just because you can find extras for that kind of people, and then you could sort of shoot something that feels like that place because there's people from all over the world in Toronto, and there's a, like there's a, there's a community, there's a, there's like every kind of ethnic group is represented in Toronto.

32:48Jawad MirYeah.

32:48Imran J. KhanSo in a different way than other cities, I think.

32:50Jawad MirYeah. I mean, in States, I mean, the community is sort of, kind of spread apart.

32:55Imran J. KhanYeah.

32:55Jawad MirRight? In Canada, like the broad view is like the, you know, sorry, Sodina is like the Chinese area. You know…

33:01Imran J. KhanYeah

33:01Jawad Mir... Gerrard is the now Rid… I don't know if you came to Ridgeway Plaza or you must have heard of it.

33:06Imran J. KhanYeah

33:06Jawad Mir... Where that's, right? It's with, they have like I don't even know how many hundred stores that are like South Asian, Middle Eastern…

33:11Imran J. KhanYeah

33:11Jawad Mir... And stuff, so.

33:12Imran J. KhanYeah.

33:13Jawad MirBut

33:14Imran J. KhanThere's like a Caribbean community. There's…

33:16Jawad MirYeah

33:16Imran J. Khan... Like, I mean, it's like every, you know, it's just, it's just a different, it's just an incredible, like, place to make a movie and to, and to just like experience just to live there for a bit 'cause I, you know, I was out there for better part of two months.

33:34Imran J. KhanAnd during that time just got really familiar with

33:37Jawad MirThat's good

33:38Imran J. Khan... Toronto.

33:38Jawad MirYou talked about San Jose. I actually, because I've spent a quite a bit of time in San Jose and…

33:43Imran J. KhanOkay, cool

33:44Jawad Mir... Where, Redwood City and LA…

33:48Imran J. KhanYeah

33:48Jawad Mir... Back and forth. So I rec… I didn't recognize the spots, but you know, sometimes you can sort of tell…

33:53Imran J. KhanThe highways

33:54Jawad Mir... Based on, yeah, based on…

33:55Imran J. KhanYeah

33:55Jawad Mir... The highways and the buildings and stuff. So…

33:57Imran J. KhanYeah

33:58Jawad Mir... But so that, I did know it was partially shot in Toronto, but I didn't know the interiors were all in Toronto, which is, which is really cool.

34:04Imran J. KhanYeah. Yeah. No, I'll, like, we just did a skeleton crew in the Bay Area, which was literally just us in like a van with a camera, with our, a camera set up and a c… a few camera assistants, and we were just shooting. We went and we shot a lot of, the build… And like basically it was, a lot of it was like from my memory of like, "Oh, what's been here? What was here in the '90s?" Because a lot of it's changed.

34:29Jawad MirYeah.

34:29Imran J. KhanAnd so it'd be like, "Oh, this kind of street or area has existed, so we can, so that would be fair game for like including in the film." 'Cause again, it's a period piece, so it's tricky. Y… everything comes into play, like cars in the background. All these things have to kind of be period appropriate. And so it, you have to shoot a lot of stuff to find like a couple nuggets that, if you're going out and just shooting raw on the streets, like you gotta, you have to shoot a lot of stuff to find enough stuff that is period appropriate on…

35:06Jawad MirYeah

35:06Imran J. Khan... Whereas in Toronto, the stuff we shot, we would like, if we were shooting our actor on a bike and he had to ride through, that means we had to place all the cars as period cars.

35:19Jawad MirYeah.

35:19Imran J. KhanSo I mean, if you watch the film, it's kind of fun because you could actually go and see like a lot of the cars in the backgrounds are the same cars. Because we had like kind of a few cars that we were like placing, to create these shots, so they'd like recy… we'd recycle these sh… cars. And so you could pair, that's a fun th… that's a fun rewatch thing is to kind of look at some of these cars. But that's what you have to do when you're doing a period piece is that you have…

35:46Jawad MirGotta use them. We use them

35:47Imran J. Khan... You have to, you have to stage all the cars, even in backgrounds.

35:51Jawad MirYeah.

35:51Imran J. KhanSo.

35:51Jawad MirI gotta, I gotta commend you that you actually as a director/writer admitted this, so that's awesome. Because most…

35:57Imran J. KhanThere's recycled cars.

35:58Jawad MirYeah. You know, mo… most people would be like, "Well, you know, we had this car and that car and, you know, it was like big budget." You know what I mean. So that's awesome. Good for you, man.

36:05Imran J. KhanYeah. No, I mean…

36:06Jawad MirThat's pretty good

36:06Imran J. Khan... It's just the reality of filmmaking, especially on a lower budget. You're, you have to be really resourceful and…

36:13Jawad MirYeah

36:13Imran J. Khan... Crafty with what you have.

36:14Jawad MirBut that's what the best stuff comes out, man.

36:17Imran J. KhanYep. I think so too, yeah.

36:19Jawad MirWhat was the budget of the film, if you don't mind me asking?

36:21Imran J. KhanIt was 2.8 million, you know, before incentives. So it was probably 2.3 after incentives, so.

36:33Jawad MirOkay.

36:34Imran J. KhanYou know.

36:34Jawad MirThat's not bad.

36:35Imran J. KhanNo, it's not.

36:35Jawad MirYeah.

36:35Imran J. KhanYeah. It's a, it's a, it... We had, we had what we needed to make the film, and, but at the same time, you know, when you, again, when you're doing a period piece, it does cost more because you have… you can't just... There's a lot of things you can do i… if you're not shooting a period piece where you can just kinda grab a shot.

36:56Jawad MirYeah.

36:56Imran J. KhanWhereas with a, with a, period piece, everything ha… in the frame has to make sense for that time, you know? So…

37:02Jawad Mir100%.

37:03Imran J. KhanIt's more production design, it's more planning, it's… it's… it's like it affects a lot of things. But we made it work. We made it work with what we had. And I'm…

37:12Jawad MirYeah

37:12Imran J. Khan... Pretty proud of what we were able to do.

37:14Jawad MirSo one of the things I really appreciated, about you, is your background in editing, right? So you were, you've been an editor. You worked at least I think, on your LinkedIn I saw, I think for Walt Disney

37:26Imran J. KhanYeah, I did. Yeah

37:27Jawad Mir... And so, and this was your first feature. And I've kinda gone through that same route, where editing several feature documentaries and films, and writing my first feature and trying to get that, you know, off the ground. But I found that when I was writing, I was writing as an editor.

37:48Imran J. KhanYeah.

37:49Jawad MirRight?

37:49Imran J. KhanYeah.

37:49Jawad MirSo, like, when you're at, you… you know, okay, what to scrape here, or is the pacing going off, and that. Talk to me about your process. Was that helpful, all those years of editing, into kind of provi… making sure that the writing flows and the pacing is good?

38:04Imran J. KhanYeah. That's such a great question. I think, people, when they would read the script would comment on that. They're like, "Oh, this feels like, it has the eye of an editor in there," because of the way I would, get in and out of scenes and kinda get to the heart of the thing and then move on. And that is because I think like an editor. I do think like, "Okay, what's, like, what, where, what's the latest we can come into this thing, and when's the earliest we can get out?" and that keeps the pace a certain way, and it also, it kind of sustains attention in a different way when you think like that, because you're not overstaying your welcome in scenes. And so I think, that definitely, like, factored into the way I think. And then, and then it came in, it came into play even more so, on set, where, you know, we've got, we've got, let's say we've got 10 more minutes in the day, and we have, we had three shots planned, and we're definitely not gonna get all three set ups.

39:07Imran J. KhanSo then what do we need to get the scene in the can? And what do we need, what do we absolutely need, and then what's kind of the if-we-have-time-for? And being able to make those judgment calls, li… like, in real time is, I think because of my experience as an editor, I'm just able to, like, tr… think about it at, like, okay, if we have the, we've shot these shots, what do we need to kind of s… tell the story visually right now? I can, I can cut a sh… a shot or a set up and still get the scene. Whereas I think some directors are, who are less experienced with e… with editing may think they need to get everything, and that they, 'cause they can't make that decision on the fly without... Whereas for me, I could kinda pre-edit the f… the scene in my head.

39:58Jawad MirYeah.

39:58Imran J. KhanThink, "What do I need from this?" And then be like, "Okay, we could actually lose this shot. I'm probably not gonna use that shot anyway."

40:04Jawad MirYeah.

40:04Imran J. KhanSo if I had to make a call right now, I'd rather spend time getting this one shot and get it ni… get it well, like do one thing well, than try to grab three shots in sort of like a rushed, mediocre way that n… then, you know, in which situatio… in which case maybe none of them are usable. You know, I'd rather get something that I know will work in the edit, and like, and like spend time to get that thing right. So anyway, those are just my judgment calls, and they are, you know, definitely stemming from m… or influenced by my time as an editor.

40:38Jawad MirYeah.

40:38Imran J. KhanAnd so I think it really helps, actually.

40:40Jawad MirIt does. And I think sometimes inserts are not necessarily needed. So I w… I just saw this film, which I'm sure you've heard of, it's just came out, End of Oak Street.

40:48Imran J. KhanOh, yeah. I wanna see it. I haven't seen it yet.

40:50Jawad MirActually, it's really good.

40:52Imran J. KhanOkay, cool.

40:52Jawad MirI was, I was, I w… Better than most recent Jurassic films, I'll say that.

40:56Imran J. KhanThat's interesting.

40:56Jawad MirSo I was talking to John, Ax… Ax… I forget his name. Axelrad, who's the editor of the film, and I was talking to him about how a lot of the stuff is kinda like the camera follows characters in the foreground, and it follows the characters, it shifts to following the characters in the background, and there's no cuts, right?

41:15Jawad MirLike, because…

41:16Imran J. KhanYeah

41:16Jawad Mir... And when there's no cuts like that, it keeps you in, but it also means that it's less set ups.

41:20Imran J. KhanYeah.

41:20Jawad MirSo the production moves faster.

41:21Imran J. KhanYeah.

41:22Jawad MirBut, so I was like, "So, you know, did you, did you guys have those inserts?" They're like, "Yeah, we had quite a bit, but we decided not to use them because…

41:28Imran J. KhanInteresting

41:28Jawad Mir... It just killed, it killed the pacing of the film."

41:31Imran J. KhanYeah.

41:31Jawad MirSo again, those things do matter, and I think having an editor eye really makes a difference on set even…

41:36Imran J. KhanWhen you, when you don't have a lot of time and money, having an editor eye can save you a lot of time and money, because you can just be like, you can make that call on set, and you can be like…

41:46Jawad MirHey

41:46Imran J. Khan... "I'd ra… I'd rather shoot more of this than this." 'Cause I mean…

41:49Jawad Mir100%. What it also can do is I think it can immerse the audience into the scene, you know?

41:53Imran J. KhanYeah.

41:53Jawad Mir'Cause sometimes when you cut, you take them out of that moment into something else, right? Like, whether it's a reaction shot…

41:59Imran J. KhanYeah

41:59Jawad Mir... Or another room, et cetera. But no, that's awesome, man. I really…

42:02Imran J. KhanI mean, but even in film, like, I, if you, I bet you if you re-watched Mustache you'd see this more, like, on the second viewing. And maybe you noticed it on the first viewing, but there are many scenes in Mustache that are one set up and one shot.

42:15Jawad MirYeah. I love that.

42:16Imran J. KhanAnd that…

42:16Jawad MirThat's…

42:17Imran J. KhanThat's, it's two things. One for me was like it's, it, we literally couldn't pro… we didn't have time for more than one shot. But that also put the burden on me to be like, "Okay, if I have one shot to shoot this scene, what's like, what's the best way to do it?" Like, what is the place that feels right, that tells the story of this scene, that s… is the right point of view, that's all of that? And like that put the burden on me as a director to make a bolder choice, which actually I think made the movie better, because if I had too many choices, I don't know if you…

42:51Jawad MirYeah

42:52Imran J. Khan... You end up going p… picking safer coverage and all that stuff. But there are a lot of scenes in the movie where I was like, "Look, we have, like, 30 minutes to shoot this scene." So, typically, you know, like, I don't know if you know wh… like, they say you get about, like even if you're moving quick, you get every, you can get, like, a setup every 30 minutes. Like…

43:11Jawad MirYeah

43:11Imran J. Khan... Even if

43:11Jawad MirYeah, that's, yeah

43:13Imran J. Khan... 'cause it takes you about 20 minutes to set up that shot, and then it, you get about 10 minutes to shoot it, and then now you can shoot. So it, you can, we could try to do, again, three mediocre shots of standard coverage that are super rushed and probably not even, not creatively that interesting, or we can get one really good setup, shoot the scene, shoot the scene from that master and like, do something bold and do something interesting and make, like, a choice. And so that's what we ended up doing for a lot of s… moments and scenes in the movie where that was the only, our only option and our only way to do it. And I think that moved the mo… made the movie better, but it's also speaking to what you're saying where sometimes, like, cuts just, like…

43:56Jawad MirOh, yeah

43:56Imran J. Khan... If you like what the actors are doing and they're, they're giving you what you want, cutting out of that isn't necessarily the best thing to do anyway, and maybe staying in the moment and just letting them do their thing is better. There's, yeah. So I mean, I just, I really think that's very interesting what, that, the editor you spoke to said, 'cause I think that's, it comes into play a lot where you think you wanna cut to all these shots, but they don't help you tell your story better…

44:26Jawad MirYeah

44:26Imran J. Khan... And you have to take out.

44:28Jawad MirI found in Mustache the, my favorite scene in terms of, I noticed that the less setup part…

44:34Imran J. KhanYeah

44:34Jawad Mir... And I thought it was really cool, was more towards the end, even though it was there in throughout the film, but this to me was more important. When Ilyas's dad calls him, you know, he kind of…

44:44Imran J. KhanRight

44:44Jawad Mir... Sneaks out of the bathroom, and as far as I can remember…

44:48Imran J. KhanYeah

44:48Jawad Mir... The camera stays on him.

44:49Imran J. KhanStays on him.

44:49Jawad MirAnd then when he comes into the bathroom, then the camera shifts, right? Now, had it been some other film, I can guarantee you it would've been, like, a close-up of the mirror or, you know, like this, over the shoulder.

45:01Imran J. KhanYeah.

45:01Jawad MirThat really sucks you out, and I, less is more, and I'm really glad that you stayed, you know, just with them two in one shot, because that was to me from a story standpoint the relationship of them… ... Coming to terms with each other, that, "I accept you as who you are."

45:18Imran J. KhanOh.

45:18Jawad MirAnd I thought that was really awesome.

45:19Imran J. KhanYeah. Oh, thank you. Yeah. And again, it's like you're, you're doing, I feel like direct… being a director on set sometimes is just doing, like, pre, like, running thought experiments of all the thing, ways you can shoot something. And then, and then thinking about, like, what's actually possible with the time and the resources we have in front of us right now. In a different, in a different, on a different movie, we would've built, like, a s… like, a set to do that bathroom scene in where we would have a space to put a camera in there to have, to do, to shoot all the ways we, you know, another movie might be able to shoot it. In our situation, it was, like, the smallest bathroom you could imagine. Like, it was so small.

46:02Jawad MirIt was.

46:02Imran J. KhanYou can even tell how small it is because there's almost no room for Rizwan Manji to e… there's almost no room for him to even exit from that shot when he leaves him, 'cause the camera's right there. There's no space. It's, like, so crammed. But you know, we made it work, and, but what happened because of the constraints, the creative constraints, I think we went for minimalism in a more, in a bold way where it's, it became a part of the storytelling to be like, "Okay, literally this, we can get this shot, and then we could shoot, we can shoot in the mirror and get kind of that last close-up."

46:41Imran J. KhanAgain, we couldn't shoot o… in another, in another movie, what you would do is you would shoot, it would be, like, almost like a set where you may, you may even somewhere else recreate the background of the bathroom…

46:54Imran J. Khan... And shoot, like, no, like, there's nothing, there's no mirror, nothing, but you can put a camera there and kinda shoot him against, like, a, like a fabricated background that matches the real location.

47:06Jawad MirRight.

47:06Imran J. KhanAnd so you could, you could do a lot of, like, there's a, there's other, like, more money does allow, and time does allow you to do more stuff, but it's like in the end of the day, I was like, I, it, the cre… the creative constraints allowed for a simplicity that I think was really effective, that, you know, like, if you have unlimited resources, you might just overcomplicate the scene, to be honest, and you might just, like…

47:32Jawad MirI agree

47:32Imran J. Khan... Do a bunch of stuff that's like all right, but you end up, wanting to simplify it anyway. So, it, again, it kinda works out the way it works out, but a lot of what you're pointing out is literally nec… the only way we could shoot it, because of space…

47:47Jawad MirNo, but that's good, though

47:48Imran J. Khan... And where to put the camera. Yeah.

47:50Jawad MirI mean, and…

47:50Imran J. KhanAnd you're just like, okay, you're focused on performance. You're focused on the feeling. You're focused on all of that, and you're not like, "Okay, where are all the crazy places we can put a camera?"

47:59Jawad MirYeah. No, I agree. I agree. I wanted to sort of touch upon two more things before, we wrap this up.

48:07Imran J. KhanYeah.

48:07Jawad MirWhat was the most challenging day scene that you can think of, you know, from a logistics standpoint where things weren't working, which I'm sure is every single day, right? There's always things that are happening.

48:20Imran J. KhanYeah.

48:20Jawad MirBut something that s… stands out for you.

48:23Imran J. KhanI mean, I always go back to the fundraiser scene. I mean, it was, it was the second week of our shoot, so it wasn't… ... Like something we shot later in the shoot. It was early in the shoot. We still were figuring out the language of the film visually. That was also, like, the first day of production for some of our characters. They were in there for the first time. And it's, it's like in the script it was like 10 pages, and we had one day to shoot the whole fundraiser scene, which is a lot of stuff to shoot.

48:53Jawad MirWow.

48:54Imran J. KhanYou know, we just had a really fast schedule. Like, people don't realize how fast our movie was, or how quick, you know, compressed our schedule was. Y… what you have to understand about Mustache is that it's, it star… almost every single scene stars, a 13-year-old kid. And so that means you only get eight to 10 hours. Like, 10 hours is your, is your overtime. Basically you can use it sometime, but you, with child actors you can't.

49:27Imran J. KhanYou can, you have to kind of bank hours, and then you can use them sometime. So, like, on that day I think we used our 10 hours for him, but still that's not even, like, the full out… the full amount of time you would get with an adult, which you would get 12 hours, with an adult actor. And so when you think about all of that, you're shooting, you have to shoot, you have compressed hours every day with, your lead, and we didn't, we tried to think of things we could shoot without him, but it just, there weren't m… there wasn't much. Like, some inserts or some this, but, like, essentially every scene had him in it, and almost every shot had him in it. There were some days where we could shoot th… the opposite cov… like, the people he was talking to first, and then he would arrive on set.

50:08Imran J. KhanSo we could save sometime. We'd get, like, one or two shots before he would arrive, and kind of l… give us something closer to 12 hours. But we're, like, it's a dance of, scheduling. And so that day, the fundraiser day is tough. You know, we don't have a full day with him, but, and we have to shoot 10 pages, and we're just moving really fast. Like, a lot of those, reaction shots at, of people reacting to his performance, actually all of them were shot, like, rapid fire at the very last minutes of the day. We were just going around and grabbing those. Me and the DP just literally were jumping to different spots, including the key reactions, which are, his family and his dad. So all of those reactions were shot so quick. We're just running around, and then we, like, we didn't even g… have time to shoot, Yasmeen, his friend's reaction, to the whole, the whole thing, actually.

51:09Imran J. KhanShe was, like, not... We didn't, we didn't get any of her reaction shots, and so we w… ca… were able to come back to that location a day or two later and just shoot her by herself on a different day with no extras and get her, all of her reactions, and then we cut those in and you don't, you can't even tell. But it was like that. It was a challenging logistical, and just the amount of scope, and, 150 extras and, like, all the stuff we had to do.

51:33Jawad MirSo I had a feeling that was shot a separate day.

51:37Imran J. KhanOh, interesting. Okay. You're, you have a very…

51:39Jawad MirBecause…

51:39Imran J. Khan... Keen eye. Yeah

51:40Jawad Mir... Because I'll tell you why. Because she was just by herself, right?

51:44Imran J. KhanYeah.

51:44Jawad MirIn a corner.

51:44Imran J. KhanThere's some, there's some people we put in front of her.

51:47Jawad MirYeah.

51:47Imran J. KhanBut…

51:48Jawad MirBut…

51:48Imran J. KhanBut…

51:48Jawad MirBut…

51:49Imran J. KhanYeah

51:49Jawad Mir... But to me, the way, the way I work as an audience, and maybe it's just the, you know, the filmmaker in me, is that I like to see, and this is nothing in any way…

51:57Imran J. KhanYeah

51:57Jawad Mir... A cr… critique of your work, because it's an amazing film, is that when you don't see characters in a three-dimensional space… ... Sometimes it pulls me out. But the way her re… I think that kudos goes to her performance.

52:10Imran J. KhanYeah.

52:11Jawad Mir'Cause she really pulls you in.

52:12Imran J. KhanShe did.

52:12Jawad MirRight? Yeah.

52:13Imran J. KhanShe had a really great performance there. Yeah.

52:15Jawad MirYeah.

52:15Imran J. KhanBut it's, like, again, it's, it comes down to, it comes down to, i… like, legit time and…

52:26Jawad MirOf course

52:26Imran J. Khan... And you're, so you're, you're, you're bound by, I think filmmaking is always bound by time. It's like if you have more time, you can do more. And, like, shooting that, like, there's, there's a difference between getting two days to shoot all of that and one day. And w… the one-day version is one thing. The two-day version is a completely different…

52:48Jawad MirYeah

52:48Imran J. Khan... Thing. And there, the, and so, but I think when you're, when you're, like, I think making an independent film is actually in a lot of ways a lot harder than making, like, sort of like a bigger budget film in that w… we don't have, like, on an independent film you don't have, like, the possibility of reshoots.

53:08Jawad MirYeah.

53:08Imran J. KhanSo you have to nail everything the first attempt, whereas on a bigger film, they're like, "Oh, the scene didn't work. Okay, cool. We're gonna, like, rewrite it and reshoot it later."

53:20Jawad MirYeah.

53:20Imran J. KhanAnd that's normal. That's, most films do that. And so there's, there's just a different kind of, like, presentness you have to be on set, a different kind of, like, making sure everything you're shooting is, like, valuable. And the speed of that and the, and your accuracy of just, like, making sure everything is, like, good for the edit, like, will work in the edit…

53:43Jawad MirYeah

53:43Imran J. Khan... Is something that I definitely had to do on Mustache, and every independent filmmaker is doing on their smaller film…

53:51Jawad MirYeah

53:51Imran J. Khan... That you…

53:52Jawad MirAnd…

53:52Imran J. Khan... Don't have to do on a bigger film where, you know, they're gonna reshoot, like, a couple scenes from the film, like expect, they're expected to. Like, anything that doesn't really work, they're gonna go back and get the actors and reshoot it.

54:04Jawad MirYeah, but you know, the bigger films come with another problem, studios and control…

54:08Imran J. KhanYeah

54:08Jawad Mir... And, you know, all that stuff, right? So it's a kind of a…

54:11Imran J. KhanPros and cons. Pros and cons

54:12Jawad Mir... Catch, yeah, catch-22 or both of them, so. But that's good. So speaking of, you know, films and stuff, what, are you working on anything next?

54:22Imran J. KhanI have a couple of things that I'm working on, and depending on what ends up, you know, getting set up at, like, a production, a production company and sort of getting sold, then we'll see. We'll see what the next thing is. But I'm kind of, enjoying the release of Mustache and just kind of like letting, finally having people b… being able to see it and talking about the film and that's been really fun for me. And looking forward to whatever those, the next projects end up becoming and yeah, hope to make another movie soon.

54:57Jawad MirNo, that's awesome, man. And I do, you know, you said you're, you're doing all these screenings, which I've seen on your social, and it's really cool to see your energy in those Q&As or in those conversations. And, you know, that's, that's a testament to your work, and that's part of the filmmaking. And once you're finished, it's not really done. Now you have to promote it…

55:17Imran J. KhanOh, yeah

55:17Jawad Mir... Right? Which is…

55:18Imran J. KhanYeah

55:19Jawad Mir... Another set of a task, you know, time-wise and all that stuff, and traveling. But yeah, kudos to you, man. A really delightful…

55:28Imran J. KhanThank you

55:28Jawad Mir... Coming of age, cool film. You know, really relatable on many levels.

55:33Imran J. KhanThank you.

55:33Jawad MirSo.

55:33Imran J. KhanAnd this was so much fun. Yeah, appreciate you having me on the show.