'The Cycle of Love', Director/Protagonists, Orlando, P.K. & Lotta

0:00Jawad MirFrom a technical standpoint, all the past footage, did you use any of the film cameras or were there after filters and effects?

0:08Guest 1Great observation. So we... So actually the way we did, we sort of built the film in two stages. The first stage was we did long in-depth interviews with PK and Lotte, and we sort of built the story structure using those. But then we also found all of this old 35 millimeter, 16 millimeter footage from Afghanistan, Iran, Turkey, other places in... From the 1970s. We knew our task at that point was to try and create material that would match that, and it was really, it's really difficult. And we knew that we couldn't shoot everything on 16 mil film, which is far too expensive.

0:46Jawad MirYeah.

0:46Guest 1So we did, we... You know, amazing work from our cinematographer Franklin, and we shot on old lenses, we shot on special filters. And then in post-production we did a whole load of really intricate work.

1:09Jawad MirI know we have limited time, so I'm gonna start off, with anybody who wants to take this question. What is one thing that you guys learned about yourselves being through this journey for PK and, Katie, like, you know, going through this back in the '70s, '80, '70s, and then Orlando, you kinda coming in at later stage, obviously in the last four or five years to be able to tell the story. What did you guys learn about yourselves?

1:42Guest 2Well, that lo… love... The heart knows that love is eternal, and we're all connected when we are in our hearts. That's just, well, greatest learning for myself. And I think…

2:02Guest 3The same thing my mom told me from s… very early age. Mommy told me, "I'm your little mother, your big mother is Mother Earth." "Your root is love." She meant when my mo… dad and my mom loved, and I came to this world, our root is love. I should not forget in life. And then I got a horoscope, the prophecy…

2:31Guest 3... That I'm a Capricorn and my wife will be a Taurus from Faravelli. And that I believe strongly is before I started school.

2:43Jawad MirAmazing. Orlando, what about you, man?

2:45Guest 1So, I mean, there's so many incredible learnings from PK and Lotte's story. And you know, and, the, it... You know, it's a story about romantic love, it's a story about self-love or learning to love yourself, but it's also a story about love for our fellow human beings, and I think this is something that I really took to heart, you know, learning about PK and Lotte's story and making the film with them together, is I think it's very easy to turn on the news today or the television and we… we're given an image of humanity that's, that's fairly negative. You know, it's very easy to believe that outside of our own countries, that people are not kind and they don't have good intentions. And it, that goes so far against my own experience of the world, where I strongly believe the vast majority of people on this planet are good and kind. And you know, I think in making the film, and you spoke about this at the beginning, it, you know, the people in the f… apart from... There's two actors in this film, but almost everybody else are real people we met along the way.

3:47Guest 1They're normal, everyday people telling their own stories. Nothing's scripted, noth… everything's just very naturalistic, and I think it just goes to show how, you know, most people are kind and want to help one another.

4:01Jawad MirThat's amazing. I really enjoyed the fact that the other people were not actors, because I'm assuming what you did was you kind of gave your actors the, you know, the whole background story and just kinda go with it. Like, there's no script, and then they kinda react to that, which is as natural as it can get, right? What I would love to know from all three of you, whoever wants to take it first, Orlando, how did you sc… how did you discover the story and your story about approaching PK and Katie? And then PK and Katie, how did she... Your version of how Orlando sort of came to you guys and everything unfolded from there.

4:38Guest 1Jaouad, Lotte.

4:39Guest 2Yeah.

4:40Guest 1Lo… PK and Lotte.

4:41Jawad MirLotte, sorry.

4:42Guest 2Yeah.

4:42Jawad MirI'm sorry. I'm sorry, my apologies.

4:44Guest 1You're lucky. Yeah, don't worry. So I was very fortunate. I was giving a speech in Sweden, and, two young people came up to me and handed me a book, and said, "This is our, this is our parents' story. Maybe you'd be interested in reading about it." Anyway, this turns out to be, Carl and Emily von Shedvin, who are PK and Lotte's children and co-producers on the film. And I read the book, and obviously my mind was blown. And I g… I got to meet PK and Lotte, soon afterwards. And, you know, y… you've, you've seen the film, y… you're meeting them now. They are such warm, generous, open-hearted individuals. And I think we all, we shared a vision on what a documentary about their story could be like. And, you know, we set about the task of raising money and pulling together a team. And a year, a year or so later, we set off all together.

5:47Guest 1You know, this was a... We were all there, PK and Lotte were with us on the vast majority of the shoot, as we followed parts of PK's original journey. And, you know, and it, and it was, it was extraordinary. And we'd, we'd, we'd meet, you know, beyond the two… Too, and we're very lucky. We had fantastic actors, Chirag Lobo and Mina Dala. But you know, every day we would, we'd often street cast, for... You know, we found Western backpackers in youth hostels. We found communities of Afghans and Iranians and Turks. And, you know what a lot of Chirag Lobo, who played young PK, what a lot of what he had to do was, it to be a very empathetic listener because really he's, he's absorbing other people talking about, you know, l… love, their own love, their own hopes and dreams. And you know, for me as a documentarian, that's just like filming any vérité material. We were just there rolling camera as these extraordinary conversations unfolded.

6:51Jawad MirThat's amazing. Lot… ... Lotta, what about you?

6:54Guest 2Yeah. I do feel, I mean, PK and me, we met, and our beautiful children came to this wonderful world as well. And, they took so much interest in, and we are so happy that it's a family project. It's also describes that all coming on this program, project now, it's a extended family. And, our children wanted to honor their grandmother, Kala Bati. That was PK's mother.

7:27Guest 2And Kala means art and, Bati means light. So that is what we like to present now for the world. And, we really, we really like to honor our children and, what they took, I mean, interest in, and now extending to Orlando and Grain Media and all the team and all coming on this…

7:57Jawad MirAmazing

7:57Guest 2... Beautiful project. For, I mean, w… we call it's a uplifting vibration love movement. So you are happy to join us. So the work you do, you're part of this now because we all, we all feel that a… actually the story is much bigger than ourselves. So just go a little bit outside and look from, just be aware that it's something bigger than ourselves. This is also the huge and wonderful, lovely message we got.

8:37Jawad MirThat's awesome. What about you, PK?

8:40Guest 3Yes. Well, that is what I learned as a child from my mom. Well, my mom always said... She has never been to school, I can tell you, could not write and read, but she taught me always that, "I'm your little mother, but your real big mother is the Mother Earth."

8:58Guest 3And, you know, the, so the world is a family, like, you know? And she's also told me, "Don't forget your roots." "What is root?" I said, "Mom." And she said, "When your dad fell in love with me, we loved, then you came. That means your root is the, your love." And that is important, you know? And the prophecy I got from when I was born, you know, I was a Capricorn, and my father is not going to arrange any marriage for me. My far away land she will come is a Taurus. That I often thought about it, you know.

9:36Jawad MirYou know…

9:37Guest 3And…

9:37Jawad Mir... One of the things I really find... Now, this is just a sort of a humorous element of this. Y… growing up I've seen a lot of movies from India, Bollywood movies and even, you know, Hollywood of course. And you, and you have this cons… vision of what love is because they show you how people fall in love.

9:58Jawad MirBut nobody show what hap… happens after marriage, right? Like the couple. So was there at any point, I'm sure there were, like, so many arguments and fights where you're like, "Why did I marry him?"

10:12Guest 2Yeah.

10:12Jawad MirWas it like a smooth sailing?

10:16Guest 2No. See, I, from the very beginning, I, you know, I just had a wish to meet a elephant boy. And, that longing of course, when I saw him with his, curly black hair and white teeth, then I reminded this film I saw when I was about 10, Elephant Boy. And i… the nice thing is that, PK's fa… grandfather, he looked after the Maharaja's elephants. So you know, that was there. And, of course, yeah, we are meant for each other. And of course, there are ups and downs, and there are things we have to handle in this, life situation. And that's always in a constant change. But underneath that, there is always this connection we talked about that we're aware of who we really are under the surface.

11:23Jawad MirI mean, it shows that you guys are truly madly in love even now. I can tell.

11:27Guest 2Yeah.

11:28Jawad MirWhich is awesome. O… Or… Orlando, for you, what was the most difficult and emotionally powerful moment of the entire production? Was there... I'm sure there were many. I'm in the film business, too. I've directed feature documentaries, and I know that there's so many moments that you, it hits you. Things hit you at a place where you never thought they would. If you can share one or two of those experiences, that would be really awesome.

11:56Guest 1I, you know, I found myself regularly b…... Crying making this film for so ma… you know, for positive and, you know, and sad reasons. Yeah, th… this all began, the first things we did, you know, after having the joy and honor to spend lots of time with PK and Lotta was we did long interviews with PK and Lotta. And, you know, P… PK just opening up about h… his experience growing up, I found that deeply moving, you know, the discrimination he faced, from, you know, from the caste system. And obviously that's very specific to PK but, you know, the, an experience of prejudice and discrimination, that's a, that's universal sadly in so many societies. I found that very moving. But als… also, you know, just the conversations that we had around the world with people along the journey as we were filming this film, and people opening up about the things that move them in life, yeah, I think most days there was something that probably made me cry.

13:02Guest 1And I, yeah, as a filmmaker that's, that always, that feels good 'cause it feels you're getting to some essence of human truth if that's how you're feeling. And you have to trust, you know, you trust your instincts then that I think we're on, this is... You know, if I, if I'm feeling something so visceral and powerful witnessing this moment, then hopefully our audience will feel the same when they watch the film at the end.

13:25Jawad MirThat's 100% accurate, and it's also, like, self therapeutic. Like, it's healing something that's, has wounded you throughout your life, and you don't know what that is, but it's just a amazing process, right? Going back to PK and Lotta, when, you know, reliving life, especially the, not the good ti… not the bad times, but, you know... Sorry, reliving bad times sometimes is a very hard thing to put on camera or speak about it again. Your story is very inspiring, but there are a lot of elements in there, you know, the journey that you had to take that not even in the film maybe, that could've been very hard to relive. Were there moments during production or during conversations with Orlando or interviews that you just didn't feel like keep going? Like, it was just blocking you guys, you know, reliving certain difficult times of your lives?

14:23Guest 2Any remembrance from… ... The difficult times that…

14:26Guest 3During filming?

14:27Guest 2Yeah. Do you feel anything…

14:28Jawad MirYeah, like, do you, did you, did you feel like, "I can't continue with this. I need a break. This is too much, too heavy"?

14:35Guest 3No, I didn't. With my children actually took initiative, you know? That was in my heart, and… ... So I'm very happy and, that was my strength I think. When I believed in this, project, my son and daughter did. When you believe, you know, you create and, so you get strength.

14:54Jawad MirFair enough. Fair enough. What about you, Lotta?

14:59Guest 2Yeah. I mean, there's, always, things happening in life and, but as I said, it's, it's ups and downs. That i… is, I mean, for everyone is there. But to connect again to your, awareness of being, that's quite a great help to see that it's changing, but still you have the stillness within that. Sometimes go into a more observing to witness things, detach a bit from…

15:36Jawad MirSure

15:36Guest 2... Certain... Yeah. I think that…

15:38Jawad MirLet me…

15:38Guest 2... That's, that... Yeah.

15:41Jawad MirLet me, let me, maybe I worded it wrong. Let me rephrase it. So let's say PK is talking, and were you there when PK was on camera, like, he was interviewing or, and vice versa?

15:52Guest 2I was…

15:53Jawad MirYeah.

15:54Guest 2Yeah. Most of, we, as Orlando said, we had all the interviews at home.

16:01Jawad MirSure.

16:01Guest 2And we were a bit on set i… in India as well, so, but most of the interviews we had in our farm in Sweden.

16:13Jawad MirWere there any times…

16:14Guest 2So emotional rewind.

16:16Jawad MirYes.

16:16Guest 2Yeah.

16:16Jawad MirBut were there any, were there any moments when PK was sharing a story and you probably didn't remember it or you didn't hear that part of the story and it kinda just like, "Oh, that happened, too. I didn't know that." Right? Like, because, you know, when you, when sometimes you remember things that you hadn't remembered for a while. Were there moments like that for you?

16:35Guest 2Not very often because it, PK is very good at remembering…

16:39Jawad MirStorytelling? Okay.

16:42Guest 2... And telling stories. So no chance of missing that.

16:47Jawad MirAmazing. Amazing.

16:48Guest 2To be…

16:50Jawad MirOrlando, from…

16:51Guest 2That's it

16:51Guest 1Do you know, just to throw something in there, what we did do is Lotta and PK very generously pulled out all of their old love letters that we got to go through. I think there were some surprises there when, you know…

17:05Guest 2Yeah

17:05Guest 1... They reread all of the letters.

17:09Guest 2Yeah

17:09Guest 1... I mean, what, for me, what an honor to listen to young love… ... Forming between people.

17:15Guest 2Yeah, you're right, Orlando, because we, there was one letter I hadn't read for ages. So I took it up and read it in front of the…

17:26Jawad MirYeah

17:26Guest 2... The camera team, and that was overwhelming because that reminded me so much about his beautiful place. You know, when I just put my foot on that soil, I felt I'm back home. There was something f… from my side that, oh, if you believe in incarnation or things like that, but when I entered there, I felt, "Wow, this is my, this is my real home." So PK was such a poetic person and he could express in so nice in words, you know? So when I read that and he took me back to that spot near the Mahanandi River… And, I used to say that, well, coming back to there, that place, it always, it's always in my heart. It still is. I used to go there more often than PK to this spot. It gives such a, peace and, remember, going really back to the source we are.

18:34Jawad MirThat's amazing. That's…

18:36Guest 2Yeah

18:36Jawad Mir... Thank you for sharing that. Orlando, from a technical standpoint, all the past footage, you know, there was obviously grading and all that, did you use any of the film cameras or were there after filters and effects?

18:52Guest 1Great observation. So we... So actually the way we did, we sort of built the film in two stages. The first stage was we did long in-depth interviews with PK and Lotta, and we sort of built the story structure using those. But then we also found all of this old 35 millimeter, 16 millimeter footage from Afghanistan, Iran, Turkey, other places in... From the 1970s. And then our… we knew our task at that point was to try and create material that would match that, and it was really, it's really difficult. And we knew that we couldn't shoot everything on 16 mil film, which is far too expensive.

19:31Jawad MirYeah.

19:31Guest 1So we did, we, you know, amazing work from our cinematographer, FranklinDow. And we shot on old lenses. We shot on special filters. And then in post-production we did a whole load of really intricate work build… adding film grain and, you know, doing colors and degrading the f… adding texture to the footage to make it…

19:54Jawad MirRight

19:54Guest 1... All marry together. Yeah, which was w… w… you know, it took a long time to get it right and try and make it convincing, but hopefully in the end it starts to feel a little bit seamless. But that all said, Jarrod, we did, we did also shoot on 16 mil too, which there's a few moments in the film we had, you know, maybe we had like 10 reels of film that we shot throughout. So some of, some of the old, some of the film footage is also stuff we shot.

20:18Jawad Mir'Cause a part of me felt, and this was just a wild guess, so I've used a Bolex camera… ... The 16 millimeter, but there is a Kodak film digital camera now. There's a digital Bolex. I don't know if it's still in production. Did you guys utilize any of those digital film camera? Like, it gives you that vintage kind of feel.

20:35Guest 1No. We, no, we didn't. We shot... A lot of the film was shot on a Sony Venice.

20:39Jawad MirVenice

20:39Guest 1... But that, but then we, the f… the 16 mil footage that we did shoot, we shot on a, on a Bolex, but the old style.

20:47Jawad MirYeah. Yeah, the three lenses. That's awesome.

20:50Guest 1Exactly.

20:52Jawad MirNow that this film is out, or is gonna be out, what I really find is, this is the type of a story that kind of needs, as great as this is, independently on its own, it kinda needs another complementary version to this which is like a narrative, 'cause I think it could be a really great narrative story, like, you know, with actors and everything. Something that... A thought that's crossed any of your mind? Has there been any discussion or thought process on that? 'Cause I really think as great as this is, it's still, there's still room for a narrative part. That's just my observation as an audience member.

21:32Guest 2There's a lot of, people asking for same question, and I do think it's, it's going to be extended. Who knows whatever will come out. As long as it's spreading the love, message of love around the world, and it's done, filming, music, any expression, artistic expression to unify humanity, then it's fine for us.

22:02Jawad MirAmazing.

22:03Guest 2Yeah.

22:03Jawad MirOrlando, what do you think, man? Would you like to take a play in this?

22:07Guest 1I think right now our focus... You know, we're, we're, we're, we're really happy our f… the film came out in US theaters on Friday.

22:14Jawad MirYeah.

22:14Guest 1It's now spreading across the United States. We've worked really hard to… ... You know, to do a theatrical. We launched the film at Telluride Film Festival last year. We saw that reaction in the room, how people felt in the cinema. It felt very special, and we've worked hard to raise the money and pull together the partners to do a theatrical. And our, all of my energy and our energy all together is to get people to come and watch this documentary in the cinema. What happens in the future, who knows?

22:46Guest 2Who knows what will happen. But it's great to be screening it, as you said now, Orlando, all over the world. It's coming up everywhere. And meeting the audience, that's such a... We feel very grateful for that.

23:03Jawad MirYeah.

23:03Guest 2And they are able to share their stories as well. So it's storytelling from so many point of views, and so beautiful meetings, and hope that people, as you said before, Orlando, that we're so many kind people, and so many people working in silence to do really hearty, good things for the world. And, this is what we'd really like to encourage. So everyone's watching this, that we said uplifting vibration…

23:38Jawad MirOpening their eyes

23:40Guest 2... Love moment. This is the message.

23:45Jawad MirLove. Love revolution.

23:49Guest 2Isn't it?

23:49Jawad MirThat's a great word.

23:50Guest 2We can feel now our heart when we sit here now that this is,.. And I said it's bigger than ourselves. Of course, they, we started it and there's so many people coming on this project, but still it's m… much bigger than ourselves.

24:09Jawad MirYeah.

24:09Guest 1Agreed.

24:09Jawad MirAnd I will, you know, say one little thing that… it's a great story, but one of the things that I really loved, and it kind of stood out for me, was that we live in a time, and I'm not trying to generalize, but, you know, if you look at the state of the world, not just in terms of politics, but even, like, domestic, you know. There's a lot of issues between couples. There's... Divorces rates are high.

24:33Guest 2Right.

24:33Jawad MirAnd when I was watching Cycle of Love, it was all about selfless act, right? That's what, that's what that film is about. And we live in a society, I think, where most of us have become a little bit selfish…

24:48Jawad Mir... Right? And that message really resonated with me, that what would it take one person to find the other person and the journey that he will take on. I mean, that… ... You know, is fascinating. And it sounds very, like, you know, movie m… kind of like a cinematic thing, but it's a real thing that happened with you guys. So I totally loved that.

25:08Jawad MirAnd thank you for sharing that. Appreciate it.

25:11Guest 2And thanks, Ulf, for inviting us.

25:13Guest 1Thank you. Yeah. Thank you.

25:16Guest 2Thank you.

25:16Jawad MirAny final bits of information or something you have to say, Orlando or PK or Lotta?

25:24Guest 1Come and c…

25:25Guest 2That was…

25:25Guest 1Come to the cinema. Oh, sorry, Lotta, you go first.

25:30Guest 2I think it's rarely opportunity sometimes to spend time in silence. That is very important for relationships, to just be, not add anything. And then Orlando, the final word. What you like to say?

25:50Guest 1I w… I was…

25:51Guest 2Yeah

25:51Guest 1... Just going to say, you know, this is... It's a joyful, positive, optimistic film. You know, there's so many things that we don't agree on, but I think love is one thing that we can all agree on. So come to the cinema, come and watch PK and Lotta's incredible story, and hopefully leave a little bit changed at the end.

26:13Jawad MirAbsolutely. No, I'm... I wish I had seen it in the theaters. I'm gonna try to make a point to see it in theaters if it's released here in Canada. I don't know if, you guys have any plans to release it in theaters.

26:24Jawad MirAnd, we'll check that out with family for sure.

26:27Guest 1It's coming to Canada. It's coming to Canada.

26:29Jawad MirAmazing.

26:30Guest 1G… people can follow our website…... Cycleof, thecycleoflovefilm.com, and we'll release news about Can… Canadian screenings soon.

26:39Jawad MirAmazing. Pleasure talking to all three of you guys. Thank you so much for your time.

26:43Guest 2Thank you.

26:43Guest 1Thank you so much.

26:44Guest 2It was a pleasure.

26:44Guest 1Thank you.

26:45Jawad MirAnd my apologies for mixing up the names because of the Zoom chat. It said Katie, and I... All I saw was that, and I didn't see the other…

26:52Guest 2That's secondary.

26:54Jawad MirEven... Just letting you know. Thank you so much, guys.