'The Fine Art of Rocky', Author John Rivoli

0:00Jawad MirWas there any moments of young John that kinda came in, into play when doing this and it kinda reminded you of your childhood?

0:07John RivoliI think almost this entire process, to be honest with you. This started the m… day I saw that film for the first time, and I saw it in the movies at eight years old, and I wound up going back to see it 13 times in the movie theater, which is saying something, 'cause it's not like today where you can just pull it up on your phone.

0:26Jawad MirYeah.

0:26John RivoliAnd I remember it just affected me, obviously, if I kept seeing it, and I ran home that day and started drawing him. Something deep within me was affected. To do work on him now in my adult life, I feel like I'm still that kid who just left the theater and is running…

0:43Jawad MirSure

0:43John Rivoli... Home to capture what emotionally connected with me, you know, through art. So the whole process to me brings me back to 1976, you know, because that is really what helped shape the person I became as an artist, but also as a, as a man.

1:05Jawad MirThank you so much, John. Appreciate, you joining in.

1:09John RivoliOf course. Thank you for having me.

1:11Jawad MirI'm really looking forward to our conversation. I was lucky enough to get this.

1:17John RivoliOh, there he goes.

1:21Jawad MirI... Honestly, this is so weird. Like, I'm pretty in tune with the different film books that come out, like on, you know, making of and all that. I had no idea about this, and, I didn't even know what it was about until I, you know, received it and went through it, and an amazing piece of art.

1:41John RivoliOh, thank you so much.

1:43Jawad MirYeah.

1:43John RivoliThat says we have a problem with our PR, though, if you didn't know. If you didn't know it was coming.

1:47Jawad MirWell…

1:47John RivoliThat's a problem

1:48Jawad Mir... No, the... No, in the sense that I sometimes research on my own on films that are coming out. So the Rocky…

1:56John RivoliYeah

1:56Jawad Mir... Is an older film, right?

1:57John RivoliYeah.

1:57Jawad MirBut there's a one that coming out, I play Rocky, which I was gonna see at TIFF, but I had to, take care of something personal. But it's nothing to do with PR. I'm just so glad that you guys did this because a film like this normally doesn't get a book like this.

2:13John RivoliYeah, I insisted. I insisted on this.

2:16Jawad MirAnd I'm glad you did, and I read the quote on the back that, to, you know, which suggests that, you know Sylvester quite well. "I've known John for many years, so I can say without any s… any hesitation, he's a true definition of an artist."

2:31John RivoliYeah. It's amazing. Yeah.

2:32Jawad MirGreat quote.

2:33John RivoliIt's really incredible, you know? It's hard to believe, especially since, he's my hero growing up, you know?

2:41Jawad MirYeah. 100%.

2:43John RivoliYeah.

2:43Jawad MirLet's, let's dive, right into it, into this. So…

2:46John RivoliOkay

2:47Jawad Mir... I would love to know first, normally I do this in the middle of the conversation, but let's take it… ... In the beginning. How did you get into this lovely piece of work that you do? What was the catalyst? What inspired you to be the person, the man that you are today?

3:05John RivoliSo as far as being an artist, that's something I've always done for as far back as my memory serves. And, I was always fascinated with pop culture, characters, and stories, and kinda put my focus on it. And, you know, I went to school for this. I went to school for art. I went to FIT first in New York City, and then I did their course in Italy, which is where I learned how to paint. That is really where everything came together for me, as you would suspect, being over there and being trained by those types of artists and seeing the great works of the Renaissance masters. That's where I picked everything up. And, I started a design agency to service the entertainment industry, and this was a time when you could do that, you know? In fact, computers were just starting out in the industry.

4:03John RivoliWe were still doing everything by hand, you know? And then this computer thing came in. And, I worked with Adobe and I helped develop a tool, the pen tool.

4:15Jawad MirOh, really?

4:16John RivoliYeah, which was my claim to fame…

4:18Jawad MirAwesome

4:18John Rivoli... Because I wanted to find a way to draw directly in the computer, where previously we were doing it by hand and then scanning it in, and there was all kinds of shortfalls with that, you know? That the art was not as perfect as you'd want it to be. So I needed a tool that I could plot vector points and create lines to look like I was doing it by hand, and that's what I did with that tool. And then I went out to Hollywood to show people what I had come up with, and when that happened, I just got into every studio. The... I didn't even have to knock anymore. I was right in, and I was the go-to for anything character artwork, everything. Every character you could imagine, from Hanna-Barbera to all the Warner Brothers properties, and Disney, and Sony, and Universal, and Para… everything. I worked for every one of those studios. And I was really carving out a niche, as the character art guy.

5:19John RivoliSo anytime you saw a piece of character art out in the world over the past 30 years, more than likely I created it. And that includes everything Nickelodeon. I was the original SpongeBob artist, so I designed what those characters looked like for Steve Hillenburg. So I have this real…

5:36Jawad MirAwesome

5:36John Rivoli... Kind of character background, and one of my clients was MGM Studios… ... Where I was doing Pink Panther, and RoboCop, and some other properties that they had, and they own Rocky. So I would say to them, "If you're ever going to do something with Rocky artwork-wise, you have to call me. You have to let me know." And I did this for 10 years straight. And then finally they called me when it was around time for the 35th anniversary of Rocky, they called. I'll never forget where I was and what they said. I answered the phone and they said, "Are you ready to put on your boxing gloves?" 'Cause they knew I was knocking on this door for a long time. So that's where I started in the Rocky universe. I worked on this collection of artwork for MGM Studios to commemorate 35 years of Rocky. And when I was finished with it, what I didn't know they were gonna do is they surprised me and they brought me to Mr. Stallone to present the art to him. And that's where…

6:39Jawad MirThat's nice of them

6:40John Rivoli... That was where we connected, you know? And what a beautiful way to connect where you don't have to be a fanboy.

6:47Jawad MirYeah.

6:47John RivoliYou know, you're, you're introduced... I remember they said, "This is our Rocky aficionado. We just flew him in from New York." Like, it was a great way to say hello. And him being an artist, we hit it off right away with the artist talk. We were just on our own talking about art and, different techniques and mediums and all that stuff, and we just kinda hit it off. And then five years later, for the 40th, I was tasked to do the same thing. So I did it, got to see Mr. Stallone again, and then he asked me to do a painting for him, and that's really where the relationship kind of took hold because he described this painting that he wanted. I was standing there, he got all the details. I flew back to New York, started working for a few months on this thing, and then went out to deliver it. And when I did, the paparazzi just happened to be there, so they filmed the entire exchange of us for a long time. They captured the whole meeting, which was pretty amazing, and that thing went out there.

7:50John RivoliAnd as soon as that went out, everybody knew about it. Everybody knew about this art, and he hung the art in Beverly Hills. And people, fans started pilgrimaging to this place to see the artwork and take pictures with it. And that's kinda when I got the idea of there might be something here. Maybe we could offer reproductions of these, this painting and more that I'm doing for you to the fans, and that's how I started Icons in Art. And I've been doing this for a very long time. I just completed all the artwork for the 50th anniversary for now Amazon MGM, so the logo that you see and all the artwork, that's all me. I did the whole thing again. And, you know, years back I ins… told them I am absolutely commemorating this milestone with a book. It deserves it, and it deserves something very highbrow, which is fine art. And that's what my goal was working alongside with Stallone, was to retell Rocky through fine art, you know?

8:55John RivoliThat way I could control what you saw, and that allowed me the ability to create things that people never saw. So in that book, you'll see there's angles, you've never seen these photos 'cause they don't exist. I created the moments that I thought were maybe more intriguing than what was actually in the film. So I reversed camera angles and just went to see different characters and their reactions in those moments, and that, you know, those are, those unseen images are kind of my claim to fame and a really beautiful addition to this book of bringing something new to the franchise, something new, right, for 50 years. And that was the whole story of how I came to doing this book.

9:37Jawad MirThat is incredible. You know, I've, when I was going through this book, I realized some of the... I've seen the first Rocky and the third and the fourth the most amount of times. I don't think I've seen the second so many times, and the fifth I've seen a couple of times. So there were some shots in there that I didn't reali… I figured that they were not in the film, but the way you kinda put it, the unseen shots that could've been.

10:01John RivoliYeah.

10:01Jawad MirAnd I think that i… that is so cool that you can do that for every fricking film.

10:08John RivoliYeah.

10:08Jawad MirRight? Like, it is, it is because there are s… you know, there's, there's all these amazing films that we've all grown up with, and you always want more.

10:16John RivoliRight.

10:16Jawad MirI mean, I think, I think those extra shots are way better than having remakes and sequels because at least they…

10:22John RivoliWithout a... I agree. I agree

10:24Jawad Mir... Right?

10:24John RivoliYeah. No.

10:25Jawad MirSo that's phenomenal.

10:27John RivoliBut that's what fans say to me, is that they thank me. They say, "Thank you. I feel like I'm seeing the film for the first time again because of these moments that I never saw." But, you know, as a, as a writer, you know these things happened in the universe of the film. They just aren't…

10:42Jawad MirYeah

10:43John Rivoli... Shown to us.

10:43Jawad MirAmen.

10:43John RivoliBut you know he had to go from here to there, and what happened in the middle, right? What was that scene? That's what I try to create.

10:51Jawad MirI just wanna show this. This is one of my favorite shots, if you don't mind.

10:54John RivoliOh, yeah.

10:55Jawad MirI just wanna show it.

10:56John RivoliThat's... Yeah. Yeah, the comeback.

10:58Jawad MirI... Yeah, I think that is one of the most iconic scenes in any of the Rockys. It's just…

11:06John RivoliIf you look…

11:07Jawad MirAnd…

11:07John RivoliIf you look closely there, you'll, on the left you'll see Mickey. I have him hidden in the background because, you know, he died earlier in the film.

11:17Jawad MirYeah.

11:17John RivoliAnd I wanna make sure he was there for this moment. And then, you know, there's this heavenly light shining down on Rocky, almost lifting him, you know, as he j… as he's leaping in the air. I wanted to show…

11:29Jawad MirThat's right

11:29John Rivoli... He was almost being lifted because there's something very spiritual about the Rocky story, and I always wanna try to continue that.

11:39Jawad MirNo, that's, that's phenomenal, man. I would love to know... I mean, we can go through this book all day long, but…... I would love t… I rather why people buy it because it de… definitely deserves to be purchased. And I would love to know, you know, you're the artist in the book, you're the writer. And what was the most challenging/fun, if they're separate or together, part to create, or that emotionally affected you a lot?

12:13John RivoliOne of the difficult things that I think applies to any creative is editing. So I have more paintings than that, and you have to decide which ones aren't going to make it in. That's difficult, you know, because you can make a case for everything, right?

12:29Jawad MirOh, yeah.

12:30John RivoliBut you gotta, you kinda have to shut that part of your brain off for this. And, so that was very difficult. I enjoyed writing the descriptions for each piece, why it was important enough to do, why I thought it should be captured on canvas. That to me is... I found early on when I started this Rocky business, people were very affected by my stories of the piece as much as looking at it, you know?

13:03John RivoliSome be staring at and go, "Yeah, I was thinking about buying that," and then I'll tell them the story. He's like, "I gotta have that," you know, because of the story behind it. So I really enjoyed writing those down. It was nice to kinda go through it again and explore what I was thinking when I was doing each piece. I think that was really m… maybe the most gratifying part for me.

13:27Jawad MirRocky is close to, if not, it is 50 years old now, right?

13:31John RivoliRight now.

13:31Jawad MirI think it was…

13:31John RivoliYep.

13:32Jawad MirYeah.

13:33John RivoliYep.

13:33Jawad Mir50 years old, right? So I think after The Godfather, it's probably the most famous film from the '70s, maybe Jaws being one of them, right? But…

13:44John RivoliYeah

13:44Jawad Mir... Rocky and Godfather are very character based films.

13:48John RivoliYes. Yes.

13:48Jawad MirN… nothing to take, nothing to take away from Jaws. It's a great film. But one thing I would love to know is that when you were working on this, or even like the earlier times when you were commissioned to do the 35th anniversary or 30th anniversary, as a, as John, was there any moments of young John that kinda came in, into play when doing this and it kind of reminded you of your childhood? And you know, we always look, the nostalgia feeling we all love because those, we always look back as in like the good times, how life was so simple and, you know…

14:24John RivoliFor s…

14:24Jawad Mir... The moments that we were in.

14:25John RivoliSure.

14:25Jawad MirWas there any moment that kind of popped out? I'm sure there were millions, but something that stands out.

14:32John RivoliI think almost this entire process, to be honest with you. Because, you know, people ask me, "How long does it take to do a painting?" They'll look at it, "How long does it take?" And I give them the same answer every time. A lifetime. This started the m… day I saw that film for the first time. And I saw it in the movies at eight years old, and I wound up going back to see it 13 times in the movie theater, which is saying something 'cause it's not like today where you can just pull it up on your phone.

15:02Jawad MirYeah.

15:03John RivoliYou had to actually go out and do this thing. And I remember it just affected me, obviously, if I kept seeing it, and I ran home that day and started drawing him. Something deep within me was affected. And to do work on him now in my adult life, I feel like I'm still that kid who just left the theater and is running home to capture what emotionally connected with me, you know, through art. So the whole process to me brings me back to 1976, you know, because that is really what helped shape, the person I became as an artist, but also as a, as a man. You know, there's great life lessons in Rocky. He's a great character to look to and look up to and aspire to grab some of those things that he has, you know, qualities, and it really did help shape me.

15:59Jawad MirDo you remember what was the first piece of art you drew, and if you still have it after you saw the film?

16:05John RivoliIt's in the book. It's in the book.

16:08Jawad MirOh, is it?

16:08John RivoliYeah, almost the last page, I guess it is.

16:11Jawad MirI see.

16:11John RivoliYou will see the very first drawing I did when I left that theater.

16:17Jawad MirWas it a sketch?

16:18John RivoliYep. You see it?

16:22Jawad MirRight.

16:22John RivoliYeah, that's it right there. That is the very first Rocky drawing I did, and then that's…

16:26Jawad MirAnd you were eight years old at the time.

16:29John RivoliYes. And then, you'll see a picture of me standing next to a poster…

16:34Jawad MirYeah

16:34John Rivoli... That I used for reference. And then fast-forward to my adult life, the same image, and now I have painted it fine art on a canvas, and there I am with the man himself with that picture. So you talk about an arc of a story, of a, of a character, your hero's journey. There it is right there on one page.

16:55Jawad MirMan, I don't know about I play Rocky. I think we should have a movie on your life.

17:02John RivoliYeah, it's fascinating.

17:03Jawad MirNo, that is really... I mean, just people have to understand that, you know, nowadays, I'm not taking away anything from the artists of today. You know, they…

17:14John RivoliNo

17:14Jawad Mir... They do hand drawing, but there's a lot of computer involved. For an eight-year-old to come back from a movie in 1976 when there was no internet, when there was not that many art books, I would imagine, or, you know, not many even bookstores…

17:30John RivoliRight

17:30Jawad Mir... And to be able to pull that off right after the screening, it's like you were born to do this.

17:36John RivoliYeah. That's what I say. But that's why I say it's a lifetime. I've been training for this my entire life to do this exact thing, which I guess I was destined to do because there's a lot of wonderfully talented artists in the world, a lot of Rocky fans, right? But I'm the one who connected with Mr. Stallone and, you know, g… got to be his artist in order to retell this. It's just really interesting when you look back that far that, wow, you were just... Were you chosen to do this? 'Cause it's int… how did you make it happen?

18:07Jawad MirYeah. I have so much admiration for Sylvester Stallone, you know, growing up with Rocky, Rambo you know, there's so many films. I think, I remember his film, I th… I think it was called Cop Land, where he took…

18:20John RivoliCop Land

18:20Jawad Mir... Like, a very serious role, which was…

18:23John RivoliWhen he had his…

18:23Jawad MirHe gained... Yeah, he gained a lot of weight. He played a sheriff.

18:26John RivoliYeah.

18:27Jawad MirAnd, but recently I've been watching a lot of his interviews, right? And I think it's because in the commemoration of 50th anniversary.

18:35John RivoliYeah.

18:35Jawad MirAnd the stories that he shares, especially about his parents, and then the way he's also raised his daughters, who have podcasts, and the way he used to train them. Man, the guy is something else. Like, he's just on another dimension, if you ask me.

18:52John RivoliHe is, and you feel it when you're in his presence. You know? Y… you know how you feel with those people…

18:57Jawad MirYeah

18:57John Rivoli... Like, there aren't many of them, but when you're w… near them, you know you're in the presence of something special. A little something extra was sprinkled on them, you know? And you feel it right away.

19:10Jawad MirYeah. Yeah. Ha… has,.. I'm sure you have seen, shown him the book?

19:18John RivoliYes, when we were putting it together. As I was writing it and putting it, step by step he was seeing it. But he doesn't have a finished one yet. He's been so busy on tour, you know, kind of doing all these interviews and stuff, that he hasn't had a chance to sit down and open up mine yet, so that's coming.

19:35Jawad MirSo it's interesting that you said that you were sort of back and forth, you know, showing the book. So you have two people, one who played Rocky and lived Rocky for the last 50 years, and one who almost did the same thing, and you're two so close to the project…

19:51John RivoliYeah

19:51Jawad Mir... That's a blessing, but also not so much of a blessing, right? Talk to me about the process of going through it together. Like, what were your dynamics like, the chemistry of putting this out and creating the best version possible?

20:05John RivoliYeah. Well, he, you know, he's an artist.

20:08Jawad MirYeah.

20:08John RivoliHe's an incredible painter, so he has a lot of opinions on what's happening on the canvas. So, a lot of the good stuff is he'll come up with ideas for paintings. He'll, email me a photo and say, "Look at this," and then explain to me why it's important and why we should capture this thing, right? So that's all fantastic. It c… it can be, it can be, intimidating when you're dealing with not only Sylvester Stallone, but Sylvester Stallone the artist, who I also admire as a painter, and he's looking at your work. And I remember there was one in particular, it's, it's called Rocky III. It's in the book. It's the famous poster image…

20:50Jawad MirYeah

20:50John Rivoli... That I painted. And I remember when I painted it, and I sent it to him, and I expected, you know, "This is really good," you know, "I love it," da. And he's like, "Something's wrong." He's like, "It just, it doesn't feel right. Something is wrong with my proportions." And I'm thinking, "How can that be?" You know? Like, I thought I nailed the thing. And I'm laboring over this now. I am like, I got the original, poster up, and I'm looking at my art, and I'm trying to compare it. And then I'm doing an overlay where I can lay in, you know, the dimension strikes of where everything hits, your eyes and your bottom of your chin, all these things, and it's, it's working for me, you know, as far as interpreting. It's very close. And I went back and I looked at my original email that I emailed him the image. And you know how sometimes, and I don't know if it still does it, but 10 years ago, sometimes you would email an image and it would kinda get squashed a little.

21:49John RivoliSometimes it would change the dimension. I went back and I printed it out, and sure enough, the email was like... And I'm talking minuscule. It was a tiny bit that it squashed it, but he caught it. I don't know if it's his eye, if it was his feeling. He knew that was wrong, and I was like, "Wow, Sly, I have to hand it to you that you caught that." 'Cause the eye, I don't think, would really see it, but something technical happened in the email process, and it did squish it. So I resend it to him, and he's like, "Okay, there it is. It's perfect."

22:25Jawad MirThat's cool.

22:27John RivoliBut just to show you, yeah, what you go through with Sly, it's, it's he's looking. He's studying and he's looking at each piece.

22:34Jawad MirThat's so cool, man. Thanks for sharing that. I appreciate it.

22:37John RivoliYeah.

22:39Jawad MirTell me about, that's kinda getting off the book for a second. Well, maybe we can stay, stick with the book or Rocky. How did Rocky help you as a kid in school?

22:53John RivoliRocky immediately taught me that, if I hang in there long enough, I can accomplish what I'm trying to accomplish. And it may not be the top thing, but what I'm going for, I know I can get there because I just watched this guy do it. And I k… I kinda think that was the big lesson in there, is that you can achieve your level of winning. What your definition of winning is, you can get to, right? He didn't win the fight against Apollo, but he won by achieving what he set out to do, which was just go the distance and win the girl, 'cause it is a love story. That was the, that was really the two things he was trying to achieve. And I learned that early on, and I have to tell you, I never was deterred again after I saw that movie. Like, nothing bothered me as far as being, rejected or anything. That w… that didn't mean as much to me as maybe it could have, 'cause I just thought, "Oh, that's fine.

23:55John RivoliI can still do this." And I kept moving past any type of no or rejection that was in front of me. That's really how it affected me.

24:05Jawad MirThat's awesome. And I think, you know, I'm glad you mentioned that, so I talk about this with friends and family all the time. The type of cinema that used to come out in the '70s, '80s, and even '90s, maybe I would say '60s, I don't…... Remember much of the '60s except the big films like Doctor Zhivago. No, sorry, Spartacus and Dr. Strangelove and all that. There was always this lesson in a very subtle way about not giving up.

24:34John RivoliYeah.

24:34Jawad MirRight? And that has a huge impact. Like, I'm, I'm similar to you, like, I've gone through so many rejections that I've gotten to like, "Okay, let's move on," like, you just learn to adapt. You got nothing else to do. You have to figure a way out. And that lacks now, I think, in films.

24:51John RivoliYes.

24:51Jawad MirAnd if it does, if it's there, it's very preachy.

24:53John RivoliEverything is heavy-handed, very heavy-handed, you know? And it does lack because I think they almost instilled the opposite in people that rejections will happen and it's okay, you'll learn from it, you'll get stronger, you'll find another way around. Now it's like, it's almost like they're being taught, "Rejection should never happen to you 'cause you're so amazing."

25:20Jawad MirSpecial. Yeah.

25:21John Rivoli"You're so special. How dare they say no to you?" You know what I mean? So I think they're learning a different thing than we learned. It's completely different. That's how I see it.

25:31Jawad MirYeah. I agree. I agree. And I wonder sometimes we're kinda like, you know, di… going on a different topic. I wonder sometimes if it has to do with the fact that we as parents are trying to do something that was not done, you know, trying to fix something that was done to us in the very subconscious way, right? So, but that's a different topic altogether. W… how... What do you want this book to be... Like, I know it's, for Rocky fans 100%, it's for people who appreciate art and painting. Where do you want this book to go in terms of its... You know, if you wanna use the word success, like, what is the definition of that? How do you want this book to impact people?

26:17John RivoliI hope that it crosses lines, is really what I was hoping for. I wanted to do two things when I set out to do this. I wanted to introduce the Rocky fan to fine art and make them appreciate fine art and the process of creating it. And I also wanted to introduce the fine art crowd to Rocky.

26:42John RivoliAnd sh… this is a piece of art that deserves to live in this world. It is an art film, and it deserves to be treated the way that I hope I treated it, and that is to pull it into this highbrow area and interpret it and let it live in a space that I, aspire to all through school, was to as… you know, the Renaissance painters that I studied and how that made me feel when I saw those pieces in person. I wanted to convince the fine art crowd that Rocky was a vehicle that deserved to be there.

27:20Jawad MirGot it. There's fi… I mean, there's so many films, you know, which I know it's hard to a… a… answer, but I also feel I know the answer. Which one is your favorite Rocky film?

27:35John RivoliThe original.

27:36Jawad MirYeah. Of course. What did you... I mean, the thing for me that stands out the most in all of the Rocky films is not necessarily the film itself, but that scene, I think it was Rocky V, with his son that has gone viral, like, millions of times, like, the whole speech. I think that is so well-written, and then executed so brilliantly that anybody from any walk of life from anywhere can relate to it.

28:01John RivoliYeah. It's the f… it's one of the finest speeches of all time. It's actually in Rocky Balboa, Rocky VI.

28:06Jawad MirOh, Rocky Ba… yeah, Rocky VI, right. Yeah.

28:10John RivoliYeah, to me, my favorite is I and VI, and I think you could actually watch them together like you do Godfather I and II. You can piece them together, which they've done. I think you can go right from the end of Rocky I where he is embracing Adrian in the film, in the, in the ring, go right to him sitting in the cemetery, the opening of Rocky Balboa. I think that it's a, it's, it's a beautiful story all put together there. So VI and I.

28:35Jawad MirI gotta re-watch those two in that order now…

28:38John RivoliGood

28:38Jawad Mir... Now that you mention it, because it, I haven't, I haven't seen them in a while.

28:41John RivoliYeah. 'Cause, you know, the middle one's got all Hollywood and glitz…

28:45Jawad MirYeah

28:45John Rivoli... And all that stuff, but he kinda got back to it in Balboa. He kinda got back to the importance of the messaging and the characters, I feel, from I to VI. Tho… those were the two that stand out.

28:58Jawad MirMakes sense. Have you seen I Play Rocky yet?

29:01John RivoliI was on set. My wife, was an extra in it.

29:06Jawad MirOh, cool. Cool.

29:08John RivoliAnd he wanted to meet me. The director knew of my artwork, and a lot of the guys on set. So they brought me there, and I was kinda giving my two cents about scenes, because I know every frame so well of the original film. And, I actually wound up being an extra, too. They threw me in '70s clothes and put me in the background. So I'm in there. But yeah, I'm f… I'm very familiar with it, and the actors. I'm very close with, the lead actors.

29:33Jawad MirI mean, I haven't seen the film, but in the trailer, the voice, he fricking nailed it. Like, it was like him talking.

29:40John RivoliYeah. He l… he looks very much like a young Sylvester. It's, it's uncanny. You know, you would think that it was his son. And he did a great job. He studied him for over a year, tried to get his body right, you know, to match him, for over a year. And when we were filming, I remember, they would do a take, and then Anthony Ippolito, he's the actor playing Stallone…

30:03Jawad MirRight

30:04John Rivoli... Would jump o… jump out of frame and go watch a monitor of the scene from the original film that they were recreating. And you would see him.

30:11Jawad MirOh.

30:11John RivoliHe's like, he's trying to get it exactly, just exactly right, and then tell the director, "Let me do it again, 'cause I think I was about a half inch off and I wanna try it again." So that's how much love and respect he showed to that original film. He did a fabulous job.

30:29Jawad MirAnd it's not just the voice and the look. It was as if the soul was there.

30:34John RivoliYeah, for sure.

30:34Jawad MirYou know? And it's the same, it's the same thing with Michael. But Michael, I don't know if you've seen the movie, Michael, with

30:39John RivoliI did, yes

30:40Jawad Mir... Yeah. So but at least that was his nephew portraying him, so there is…

30:43John RivoliRight

30:43Jawad Mir... Some sort of, you know, relation and connection.

30:46John RivoliYeah.

30:46Jawad MirBut yeah, it's just like, I felt like the soul of Sylvester Stallone was in that trailer, not just the voice and the looks.

30:55John RivoliYeah, for sure he tapped into him, and that was his intention. You know, that's why he studied him for over a year, to try to channel him as well as he could, and he did. He did a great job. Watching him on set, it was really, it was impressive.

31:10Jawad MirIs the movie as good as you would hope for?

31:13John RivoliI haven't seen the final…

31:14Jawad MirOh, you haven't seen, okay

31:16John Rivoli... No, I haven't seen it yet, so. I can't imagine that it's not.

31:20Jawad MirYeah.

31:21John RivoliI know that my friend Frank Stallone, saw it, and he was really happy with it and said that, you know, it's a, it's so great 'cause it's a family movie. The way that parents would bring their kids to see Rocky, right? Parents my age who would bring my kids when they were old enough to go to see the original film, the same thing will, can happen with this one. It's, it's as wonderful as that. It's just a story that you wanna share with the family.

31:50Jawad MirThat's awesome, man. That's really cool. I'm looking forward to watching that. What's, next for you after this book? Any project that you're working on? You're taking some time off, or...?

32:01John RivoliYeah, well, I, in, conjunction with the book, I also wanted to do a clothing line to commemorate 50 years of Rocky, which I did. I partnered with a designer, Robert Graham, who is known for their menswear.

32:16John RivoliAnd I didn't wanna do just T-shirts and sweatshirts. I wanted to do something that was worthy of 50 years of this thing because it's a big deal, right? To make it that far and still be…

32:29Jawad MirYeah

32:29John Rivoli... Extremely relevant. So, like, this is one of the shirts that I'm wearing right now.

32:34Jawad MirAh.

32:34John RivoliThe dress shirts, in here is all boxing gloves. I mean, if you look at the cuffs, you'll see my…

32:40Jawad MirOh, wow. Oh, wow

32:42John Rivoli... Artwork is the word Rocky, right? You see that? It's in the neck. There's little Italian flags. We have leather jackets that are phenomenal. The zipper pulls are boxing gloves. The inner lining is my artwork that you see in that book. So it's, like, you know, shirts that range from 400 to 1300. That's the, like, runway level collection that I wanted to do for this. So that is also out. That came out two weeks ago, and it's doing really well. It's just a short, limited edition thing, just for this moment in time of 50 years of Rocky. And…

33:17Jawad MirThat's amazing

33:19John Rivoli... And then after that, coming up is, I will be working on a film, with Balboa Productions. So I signed a deal with Stallone and Balboa Productions to do a documentary on Rocky, along with my creative partner, Robert Bruzzio, filmmaker. And, we came up with an angle that, we sh… we talk about Rocky that's never been spoken about really, on why it's still important after 50 years. So we kinda cracked the code on this thing, and we're gonna lay that all out in this documentary.

33:58Jawad MirThat's amazing. Is that in pre-production stage, or...?

34:01John RivoliYeah.

34:02Jawad MirThat's awesome.

34:03John RivoliRight now it is, yes. That's where we're at, so.

34:05Jawad MirYeah.

34:06John RivoliYeah.

34:06Jawad MirThat's super cool.

34:07John RivoliSo that's, we have that coming up as... Yeah. I'm really excited about that one, and so is Sly. Very passionate about this particular one, so. And then after…

34:16Jawad MirOh, my attention is all then, sorry, go on

34:18John Rivoli... Yeah, non-Rocky stuff, like, I'm working on the new Batman movie that's coming out and the new Superman movie. So I got some different things in the studio world, that I'm still working on.

34:29Jawad MirThat's awesome, man. Kinda going back to the clothing line. Where can people get this art? Is it online, or...?

34:35John RivoliYeah, so you can, Robert Graham has stores all around the country.

34:39Jawad MirGreat.

34:39John RivoliSo all the Robert stores are pretty much taken over by Rocky right now. So you can go there. Online, robertgraham.com.

34:46Jawad MirGot it.

34:47John RivoliYou can get all, you can see the entire collection. And then we're in, high-end stores like, Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus… ... Bloomingdale's, the higher tier stores. But if you go to Robert Graham, you can see everything. You should, I would encourage you afterwards to just go take a look at the stuff that we did 'cause it's really beautiful. It's like nothing that's ever been done for Rocky before, you know, than the usual clothing stuff. I want... Nobody's ever done dress shirts, let's put it that way, you know?

35:18Jawad MirI was gonna say, I don't think that's happened for any movie, and you, maybe there is a business idea there for you to…

35:24John RivoliYeah, exactly

35:24Jawad Mir... Con… you know? Because the, Rocky, I mean, there are so many films that have such a strong fan base, which is what I was asking online, because there are people all over the world who would wanna be part of this, right? And there are people who collect stuff, you know? It's just... Like, I'm a huge Jurassic Park fan, right?

35:43John RivoliAh.

35:43Jawad MirI became, I got into film, now I'm a writer/director myself with feature documentaries and narratives now. And

35:50John RivoliThat's awesome

35:50Jawad Mir... I know, I didn't know there's a world out there in Europe where people, on Instagram I see this, they have, like, room full of dinosaurs from Jurassic Park, like these m… you know, limited edition, like, gigantic size. They probably spent, like, five, six, $7,000 on, right?

36:07John RivoliWow.

36:07Jawad MirBut there's a huge fan base out there, huge…

36:10John RivoliYeah

36:10Jawad Mir... For every film.

36:11John RivoliYeah. The built-ins for these properties are rabid, you know? And you feed 'em something that is special and authentic, and they're there. They are on it. And side note, you know, I did every, all the artwork for the 30th anniversary of Jurassic Park, by the way, for Universal.

36:27Jawad MirDid you?

36:28John RivoliYeah. Yeah.

36:30Jawad MirI hope that, I, 'cause I have all these books, I don't know if you know the author James Mottram. He's in, he's in the UK. So he's done, like, for Inside Edition, Jurassic Park, Jurassic World Ultimate Visual History, then the Jurassic Park official script book. But for s… what you're talking about, is that book available still?

36:49John RivoliI…

36:49Jawad MirOr is it just for the Universal…

36:51John RivoliI had to do it for the studio. For them coming up on 30 years. So what they did with it, I never really know where my art winds up. That's the funny thing. I'll be in a store and bump into it or find it online. I'm just commissioned, I do it, and then I move on to the next job. But that was a really good project. I remember that because I think I picked, I don't know if it was three or five iconic scenes from the film, the original. And…

37:19Jawad MirI can tell you which ones they are right now. I can guess.

37:24John RivoliI created them in all different techniques. So one was oil painting, one was, watercolor, one was inking, one was wood carving, all that, just to give all these different looks and feels for the film.

37:42Jawad MirMan, I would love to see that. And if you can get somehow that in the book... I don't know what the, you know, your process is going through the studio or through a publisher. I'm telling you, I know publishers do their own little surveys and you know, what the demand is and all that. There's, there... People will buy it. Like, there's a huge Jurassic Park fan that you can't even imagine.

38:01John RivoliYeah. Yeah, I should really do something with that.

38:04Jawad MirYou must. You must. No, that's awesome, man. I… it's been a pleasure talking to you. I'm looking forward to your future books. Right? You said you were working on Batman and what was the other one?

38:16John RivoliIt was for the film. For the new films coming out. I'm doing artwork for those films for the studio. I…

38:20Jawad MirOh, you're doing artworks. Okay. Got it. Got it. I'm looking forward to that. I would love to have you on again at some point. If there is any idea that you have, an opportunity where we can talk about your work that is probably not released, but you're able to share publicly on Zoom, that would be really cool to see. I would love to do that, if that's something you up for.

38:40John RivoliYeah. The angle we could go with is, I recently got a name in the p… I think about seven years ago. I'm known as the best-kept secret in Hollywood. So pretty much everything that's happened, 90% I did, but I never told anyone because I couldn't, 'cause I have to sign NDAs.

39:02Jawad MirOf course.

39:02John RivoliYou know? But after COVID, all the rules kinda changed, and nobody really cares anymore about any of that stuff. So I started telling everybody, "Hey, you know who developed SpongeBob? Yeah, that was me. I drew him." You know? And all that stuff. And then Max & Ruby and Dora…

39:19Jawad MirMy God

39:20John Rivoli... And Go, Diego, Go! Who do you think created all that stuff?

39:23Jawad MirAre you serious, man?

39:25John RivoliYeah. So there's maybe…

39:26Jawad MirDude

39:27John Rivoli... A interesting angle to talk about with people, that they just don't know that one guy did all that art. Yeah, every…

39:33Jawad MirThat is amazing

39:35John Rivoli... Jetsons and Looney Tunes since the year 2000. I mean, we... I sat with my partner with JK Rowling when they were gonna go from book to film, and we came up with everything what it looks like. Every shield for every house, the wands, everything.

39:51Jawad MirThat's incredible. I know Max & Ruby and Dora and Diego so well…... Because my niece, like, she was the oldest one i… in our family, like, you know, among my siblings, and when she was, like, four or five, that's all she would watch. And I remember sitting with her and watching Dora and Diego and Max & Ruby and, you know. That's, that's so awesome, man. Let's do that. I would love to do that. That would be really cool.

40:16John RivoliI can give you all kinds of art that you could put up on the screen, like, all kinds of cool stuff I could share with you.

40:21Jawad MirAnd just lastly, I don't... I honestly don't know if this book is out yet. Is it out?

40:25John RivoliThe, on the 6th it's out.

40:28Jawad MirOkay.

40:28John RivoliSo…

40:28Jawad MirSo the book comes out on October 6th. Okay. That'll be perfect timing for that, then.

40:32John RivoliPeople are getting it. So I see them posting, so they must have started shipping them early.

40:36Jawad MirOkay. Got it. Perfect, man. Thank you so much, John. Pleasure. And thank you again for an amazing piece of work. You're truly a gem of an artist, and I'm, I'm very excited about Diego and Dora and Max & Ruby. All right, brother. Thank you so much, man.

40:54John RivoliThanks a lot. It was a pleasure. Thank you.

40:56Jawad MirThank you. Take care. Bye-bye.