'Mr. Holland's Opus', Director, Stephen Herek

0:06Stephen HerekNo, I said thank you so much for, tuning in. Appreciate it.

0:08Jawad MirNo worries. Well, thank you very much for letting me tune in. I mean, I have to admit it was a bit of a... It's not a shock, I mean, I get this every so often, but not that often. Yeah, it... A lot of it revolves around Bill & Ted and, The Mighty Ducks, actually, most recently. But

0:28Stephen HerekYeah

0:29Jawad Mir... You know, those tended to be a little bit more cultural, I don't know what you wanna call them exactly, but, cult-y kind of hits. Anyway, it's a pleasure to be asked. I'm assuming this is about Mr. Holland's Opus, right? That's what the email…

0:45Stephen HerekYeah. It…

0:46Jawad MirYeah

0:46Stephen Herek... It is. It is, for sure. And I, you know, while you've brought up the subject, Mighty Ducks and Mr. Holland's Opus is one of those two films. You know, I'm a '90s, kid. Like, I grew up…

0:59Jawad MirYes

0:59Stephen Herek... With the '90s films, and those two films had a huge impact, you know, in terms of me becoming who I am as a filmmaker, but also in life, like the lessons that it teaches you about life, about, you know, why you could just, you just gotta keep on focusing. And they're very small town stories as opposed to, you know, you're taking over the world or you're making an impact or…

1:20Jawad MirOr the metaverse

1:21Stephen Herek... You know. Yeah.

1:22Jawad MirWhich…

1:23Stephen HerekSo…

1:23Jawad MirMaybe after this is done, you can explain that to me. I mean, is it just an…

1:28Stephen HerekI…

1:28Jawad MirIs it just an excuse to be able to do anything?

1:31Stephen HerekI think so, and I just think that those kind of things, those kind of stories about, you know, small towns... Because... And I realized that, too, in my career some time ago, that, you know, you're, you have all these films that deal with the big issue of international, which some of them are great, most of them are not, because you kinda get lost into that big production thing as opposed to the story itself. And…

1:57Jawad MirRight

1:57Stephen Herek... You know, fil… films like that, like in the most recent times, a film that came out that was similar to, that was reminded to me about Mr. Holland's Opus and The Mighty Ducks was Wonder, which was based on a book. I don't know if you have seen that. It's, about a child…

2:10Jawad MirI have. I have

2:11Stephen HerekYeah.

2:11Jawad MirActually, there was another one. Shoot. I can't remember the name of the film. But it dealt with a deaf man and a deaf woman. I think Marlee Matlin was in it. It, I know it was nominated for Academy Awards, like it wasn't last year, but I think the year before. It's on Apple. I can't remember the damn name of it, but I was thinking, "Oh, my God, this has…"

2:35Stephen HerekOh, I know exactly what you're talking about. It was, about a fishing, community, right?

2:38Jawad MirYeah. No, exactly.

2:39Stephen HerekYeah.

2:40Jawad MirIt was really good. It was great. I was, you know…

2:42Stephen HerekYeah

2:42Jawad Mir... Just totally swept away, you know, by it, and that's actually what attracted me to Mr. Holland's Opus, was, that it was a small town. However, my thought about it was that everybody's life is an epic, you know?

2:56Stephen HerekYeah.

2:57Jawad MirI mean, I shot it wide screen, you know, because that usually is reserved for larger movies, you know, or larger in terms of scale.

3:04Stephen HerekYeah.

3:05Jawad MirBut I just felt like, you know, that the whole point of the movie was that your life is valuable, you know? And that everything that you do, you know, can have this ripple effect, you know, on, you know, other people. So be careful when you think that you've wasted your life, 'cause you probably haven't. But anyway, yeah, no, I, no, I appreciate it, and I appreciate you saying that about the earlier films as well, is that, look, I've been accused of having no style, which is probably true, but,.. However, the bulk of my movies have a heart, you know? There's a pulse that is running through them, and I really…

3:46Stephen HerekAbsolutely

3:46Jawad Mir... Work hard at bringing that to the screen, you know? So, and that's what Bill and T… I mean, they're, they're small little films, but they do have something to them that, you know, outside just being entertaining, you know, that there's something underneath it that maybe, you know... And again, I don't wanna... God, I sound pretentious right now. I…

4:07Stephen HerekNo

4:07Jawad Mir... This is what I hate about interviewing. 'Cause every time I start talking about myself, I feel like, it's just so weird. I'm l… I'm sitting outside myself, going, "You. God, this is such crap." It's not crap, but it's just the way it just comes out of my mouth. It doesn't, you know... I'm not Steven Spielberg or Martin Scorsese. I mean, those guys are so eloquent, and I can listen to them for hours talk about, you know, cinema. But I'm just a guy, who likes to make movies.

4:36Stephen HerekNo, I mean, I think, I think honestly, to your credit, to... The way I look at life is that, and, you know, even these conversations, which is what I like to call them, because I... Interviews are very kinda like scripted. Like, I have absolutely no questions prepared ever, you know. I'll watch the movie again, and I'll just kind of go with the flow. But what you, the way you're talking about things is what ordinary people like you and I, a majority of the people in the world, will talk like. You know?

5:02Jawad MirYeah.

5:02Stephen HerekYes, there are some exception, exceptions like Spielberg, Scorsese, Coppola, De Palma, and Lucas.

5:09Jawad MirYeah.

5:09Stephen HerekBut at the same time, you know, this is just who we are, you know. We… it's genuineness, that we were not trying to be somebody else, and that's what matters more than anything else.

5:18Jawad MirNo, I try, I try, when I go into, like to basically, I'm gonna say interview for a movie, 'cause that's what I still have to do too. I mean, I have to go…

5:27Stephen HerekYeah

5:27Jawad Mir... And give a pitch and all that kinda stuff or whatever. But the thought of giving a pitch, you know, to me, it's like public speaking. It's like all of a sudden I have to have this monologue, you know? So I really try to guide it to be a conversational thing, you know, that does become a dialogue about the movie, you know, about the story and the script, and then I slide my, you know, ideas, you know, in there, rather than it being this soliloquy, you know, and followed by a pro… you know, or in, a continuous, PowerPoint, you know. It's a pitch deck… Now, I mean…

6:01Stephen HerekYeah

6:01Jawad Mir... When we first started, pitch decks, I mean, they probably existed in the advertising world, you know, and costume designers and production designers and whatnot. But it was rare, a… and now everybody wants a pitch deck, you know? It's like, "What's your vision…

6:14Stephen HerekYeah

6:14Jawad Mir... Of the movie?" And I feel it's, you know, I can see it being, yeah, I can see the other side of it, but for me, when I'm putting these things together, I'm stealing other people's images. You know, like, I'm putting all this stuff in there and it's like, well, it's gonna, you know, of course you're gonna put all these huge hits and, you know, all these things that…

6:34Stephen HerekYeah

6:34Jawad Mir... You know, are, you know, into it. And, but it's kind of a, I mean, it's not a lie, but I don't know. I don't know. I really just are, you know? Anyway, enough.

6:47Stephen HerekYeah. No, you're, you're, you're so right about that because pitch decks, I mean, you know, we would spend like months if not, you know, weeks if not months on it, and then I, there would be somebody you would talk to, I'm not talking about like a distributor, like let's say an independent investor, and these pe… some of these people are, they're so capable of looking through you know? And they would be like, I remember one of the investors told me, like, "I don't need to see a deck. Just talk to me a few minutes and I'll know if I want to invest."

7:15Jawad MirYeah.

7:15Stephen HerekAnd that was it. I mean, you know, because a deck, decks, like, are like 30 pages long sometimes.

7:21Jawad MirWell, I know, but…

7:21Stephen HerekAnd not everybody…

7:22Jawad MirI get it if it's an original piece of work. You know? Like, if it's your, something you wrote, you know, and you're trying to, you know... I actually, I do that, but for somebody else's script that I'm interpreting, you know, I…

7:39Stephen HerekYeah. Yeah

7:40Jawad Mir... I don't know. I just, like I said, I can see both sides of it, and it is, it, and you mentioned it can take a lot of time, and then all of a sudden you're going to a 30-minute, you know, like conversation, you know? And…

7:52Stephen HerekYeah

7:52Jawad Mir... And it's over. And it's, and then poof, you know, either you get the job…

7:57Stephen HerekIt's gone

7:57Jawad Mir... You know, or you don't, you know? And if you don't, then it's like, "Oh my God, you know, now what do I do with this?" You know. Anyway

8:05Stephen HerekYeah. No, it makes sense. Tell me, h… how did you start your career? What got you into film? Let's start with that.

8:11Jawad MirWell, that it was, there were no pitch decks, so

8:15Stephen HerekTrue.

8:15Jawad MirYeah. Yeah. No, I mean, 'cause, 'cause here's a... Oh, wow. I was in my early 20s,.. Let's see. I graduated from college in, I went to film school if you really want the true beginning, you know, of it.

8:30Stephen HerekYeah. Absolutely.

8:31Jawad MirYeah. Look, I was a jock. I played baseball. I wanted to play baseball in college. I went to a major baseball school, the University of Texas at Austin, and, it didn't really work out for me. I walked onto the team. I didn't get a sch… scholarship. I had offers for smaller schools. Like, I come from the Washington, DC area.

8:52Jawad MirAnd, but I didn't wanna stay there because everybody else, all my fr… everybody had moved and, you know, all of that, and my parents had moved to, Texas.

9:02Stephen HerekRight.

9:02Jawad MirSo I followed them, you know, I went with it 'cause I didn't know what the hell I wanted to do, but anyway, I went to the University of Texas. That baseball didn't work out. Needed to find something else, and all of a sudden I wander into a, it's a film history class, but all they did was watch movies. Now, I wasn't part of the class, but I'm s… I'm sitting in this auditorium of, like, 500 kids, and I'm watching Charlie Chaplin's The Great Dictator, and I'm…

9:27Stephen HerekOh, love that film.

9:28Jawad MirI know, yeah, it's great. And I h… honestly, up until that point I hadn't really seen many silents, you know, and I'm just enthralled. But then about halfway through this I'm going, "Can you make money? It, can you c… can this be, you know, a vocation?" I mean, I…

9:43Stephen HerekYeah

9:43Jawad Mir... That, I mean, I knew it, you know, of course. I mean, there's actors and directors and all that, but that just seemed to be a universe, like, really far away. Anyway, that was when the film bug hit me. I immediately left that class, you know, when the movie was over, of course, like it, and changed my major to, film, and then just literally devoured for the next three or four years. I mean, I was watching 11, 12, 13, 14 movies a week. You know? And just reading all sorts of, you know, film history books, you know, the, about editing. Editing became my first love, and, because I felt, w… one, when you're in college, I mean, all this stuff, I don't know, unless you, it's like they saved everything for graduate school and all that. You can't really direct anything. It's all these people talking about, you know, yada, you know. But I wanted to do something, you know? I mean, it's, I, it d… it just didn't, they, no permission there really, you know? Unless you...

10:43Jawad MirNow, this is prior to, I mean, you know, eight-year-olds can make movies now, you know? I mean…

10:49Stephen HerekOh, yeah

10:50Jawad Mir... With the visions and all of that, and the editing systems and all. This is back in the Super 8 days, you know? I mean, that's, that... And there were video cameras, but they were these big, huge clunky things, and they were extraordinarily expensive, you know? So it's like, well, that... So I started making these little Super 8 things, you know, but then in college it turned into 16, but then again you're not really directing anything, you know? But then I took, editing classes, so then I'm in my own little world, you know, and you're actually doing something. You know? And I would just take these all night, you know, like editing sessions because then it wasn't, you weren't restricted to four hours. You could do, like, eight 10-hour blocks. So anyway, a… that's why I turned into a vampire, you know, and it was great. I mean, you know, with the film and the music, and you could move things around, and all of a sudden it just changed. You can actually physically see how it changed the perception of what the scene was that you're cutting, and it was just enthralling, you know? And I, of course, when you're in film school, I mean, it's an ivory tower, right?

11:51Jawad MirI mean, you know, it, dreams are everything is possible, you know? So of course you wanna be a director, you know? Even though I really had no true sense of what that meant, you know? I mean, yeah, intellectually I got it, but I didn't really know. But yeah, so I la… I got graduated, of course, then, like two weeks after graduation, boom, in a Volkswagen going off to, with a couple thousand dollars in my pocket and I'm gonna go conquer Hollywood. And of course, you get there and it's like, "Oh my, this is re… this is a bit different." was unemployed for a little while, you know, about six, seven months or something. I finally got a production assistant, 'cause I remembered in film and it's like, "Ah, this is really terrible", I'm leaving all these resumes and you could quickly begin to realize that these resumes don't, I mean, they're not even worth the paper they're written on. I mean, I could f… I could hear them throwing it in the t… trash as I was turning around, you know, to…

12:44Stephen HerekYeah

12:44Jawad Mir... Go leave the office where I left it. I was like, "All right, well this is a waste of time." so I remembered, seeing a documentary on Roger Corman, and I was like, "What was that called? New World Pictures. I wonder where New World Pi… I wonder if that still exists." So anyway, I found New World Pictures, you know? And it was great. I walk in, I mean, it, first of all, it's an abandoned lumberyard, you know, is where, you know, the studios were. And I thought I was in the wrong place, I mean, because you couldn't tell. There was a lot of cars parked there, but you know…

13:17Stephen HerekRight

13:17Jawad Mir... The sign, it had the lumber sign on it, but it was broken. You know, and I'm going, "Aren't, there's cars here. It must be something though." So I walk in, and I literally open up this warehouse door and I'm now faced with a space corridor. I mean, I'm now on a alien ship or something, and I'm like, "What the..." And then this person off to the left of me goes, "Get out of that. You're in the shot." You know? And I'm like…

13:41Stephen HerekOh.

13:43Jawad Mir... "What?" You know? And I move out of the way and I'm going, "Oh God, I, you know, I'm here looking for a job." You know? And of course I was, you know, it's like, well, they didn't have any, they didn't hire there, but they gave me the office address. I went and had a, conversation at a different office. It was a… actually more of, you know, y… those slick production, you know, offices, you know, that, Roger Corman was housed at, and all these…

14:09Stephen HerekRight

14:10Jawad Mir... You know, officious people, you know, were at. Anyway, they introduced me. I mean, I, they gave me, and said, "Well, you know what? This show called Saturday the 14th is hiring PAs. You know? So go, you know, to this thing." So I went, talked to this person, I can't remember her name now, but she was a, well, again, what was she, production coordinator I guess, or maybe…

14:32Jawad Mir... She was production manager. I'm not really sure. But, I was so jacked up because this is like my true first official meeting, you know? So I wasn't su… you know, she didn't say one way or the other whether I had this job or not, but I immediately went to the flower store, bought a huge bouquet of flowers, drove back and then just set it on her, you know, I gave it to her saying, "Just thank you. This is just a thank you for talking with me, because nobody, I've been here for eight months and, like, nobody's talked to me other than to say, 'No. No, we're not hiring. We're not hiring.' But you did. Thank you. You know, this is not a bribe, you know, I, it's, it's only because I'm genuinely, you know..." Anyway, I got a call two hours later and I'm now an art department production assistant on Saturday the 14th. So anyway, it started from there. But I got to meet the editors. And I, through the conversations and whatnot, they said, "Hey, you know, look, when you're done with your time here on the set, come on by.

15:35Jawad MirWe, you know, and we'll teach you." So I did. I went and I had worked for free for, like, three days a week, you know, from anywhere from 4:00 to, you know, 8 or 9 hours and whatnot. And to learn how to, you know, whatever, I didn't know what an assistant editor was, you know, or an apprentice editor. Anyway, at that…

15:50Stephen HerekYeah

15:50Jawad Mir... They taught me, you know, rolling trims. Now this is film, you know, in the film days, not, you know, videotape days… ... Or whatever it is. We're, chips, we're into chips now. Or hard drives. Anyway, so when I did this for, like, a couple months and at the end of it, they were starting another movie called Slumber Party Massacre. And so, Wendy Green, or I think her full name now is Wendy Green Brickmond, she was an editor and then Amy Jones Chapman, you know, was the director. And, so they needed a, you know, an apprentice editor. So they hired me. And that was sort of the beginning of my official career, you know, of making maybe movies. Anyway, I did the, a s… you know, I journeyed around doing the assistant editor thing for about three years and, met up with Brian Muir, who I wrote Critters with. But it was during…

16:45Jawad Mir... I was 24, he was like 19. You know, we were just talking about, like, how people got their breaks, you know?

16:52Stephen HerekYeah.

16:52Jawad MirAnd it turns out we were big fans of S… Sylvester Stallone, you know? And the story that revolves around Rocky is he wrote the script and, you know, and the demand was is that he's gonna star in it, you know? I mean, even though he had no reputation or, anyway, it happened. It became this huge thing. So we just noodled around with Critters and, 'cause the movie we were working on was kinda going nowhere, but they kept us on. So in effect, we were getting paid to write this because we were doing it on the job, you know? And so we took the producers out to lunch, you know, because we wanted to know, 'cause, the rumor around New World was if you could write a script that you could use existing sets on, that you had a good chance. It didn't matter who you were or what you were, that you might get it made, you know, through Roger. So anyway, we took these guys out, you know, and they said, "Well, what do you got?" And we said, "Well, we wrote this script called Critters."

17:53Jawad MirAnd, he said, "Well, do you happen to have a copy?" And of course, you know, like those comedy things where the guns come out and they were pointed, all the, both of us take out a script and say, "Here it is." And, anyway, they read it… it was Rupert Harvey and Barry Oppen. They literally, the next morning they called and said, "Hey, we like this." You know, and we talked about, like, a three-month free option. I didn't even know what any of this shit was, you know, but it's like, you know, I did find a lawyer, you know, and she was starting her career about the same time I was, and she said, "Look, I'll m… I'll take care of all the legalese." And, so we did. We gave him a three-month option, and it turns out that, you know, Roger was interested, New Line Cinema was interested, and New Line ended up giving us a couple million dollars where Roger wasn't gonna... H… his ceiling was one million. Anyway, that's how it all started. I'm, like, 24, 25, and I'm going back to I didn't know shit about directing, but that was the demand, is that I was the director, you know, of this.

18:55Jawad MirOtherwise, you can't have it. You can't have the script. And, everybody said yes, you know? And I'm, I'm like, "Oh my God, this is just crazy." Anyway, Bob Shaye, we went out to lunch, like, three weeks before we started shooting. Bob, we're having this casual conversation, you know, with me and Barry and Rupert and all of that, and he turns to me and he goes, "Just don't fuck it up." You know? So scared the crap out of me. I,.. Anyway, I somehow in a daze, in a stupor, muddled my way through it. You know, got it done in the 30 days, you know, that it was, we got to shoot it, and lo and behold, it ended up looking like a movie, you know? And then it kinda became a hit, you know, and it was like, "Oh my God", you know? And that was it, you know? And I thought that was done. I didn't have an agent. I didn't have anything. I didn't know what to do, you know, now. But quickly agents saw it and they contacted me.

19:57Jawad MirOne of... You know, and I did get an agent. Bill & Ted ca… There's a long story about how I got Bill & Ted and whatnot, but there's... Not enough. I'm kinda boring you already, I think, you know, but

20:07Stephen HerekNo This is exciting

20:09Jawad Mir... Yeah, and Bill & Ted ca… so that became my second movie, you know, and it was g… it was so much fun, I mean, because Keanu and Alex, we were all about the same age. I was about three years older, you know, I guess, than them.

20:21Stephen HerekYeah.

20:22Jawad MirAnd we were, we were just, like, enthralled that, "Oh my God, we're making movies. I mean, it, how great is this?" You know what I mean? "We're actually getting paid, you know, to do this," you know? And, you know, we just had so much fun. You know, it c… it, 'cause it was silly, but, you know, I was trying to keep it grounded and it, you know, all the things that you were talking about a little earlier in regards to, you know, the, kind of the meek shall inherit the earth, you know, kind of thing. And I know these are kinda h… they feel like highbrow things, you know, but they're... It was. They were just simple, and it, you know, but you keep having fun, and then it's that s… what is it? The, Mary Poppins thing, a spoonful of sugar, right? I mean…

20:59Jawad Mir... If you, if you entertain people, you can lace it with whatever you wanna lace it, and you know what? Somebody might actually pick up on it. And anyway, the movie ended up becoming a hit, and then the next one, did the next one. And eventually I got Mr. Holland's, you know, opus. Because I was trying to do something that on its surface was, I mean, people really relating to. And not that the other movies didn't, I mean, but…

21:26Jawad Mir... Three Musketeers and The Mighty Ducks and all of that, they weren't... I, my feeling about movies is I wanna make them accessible to all ages, you know?

21:38Stephen HerekYeah.

21:38Jawad MirHowever, you know, they're put in a category of teen movies or, you know, more for the young set and so on and so on, which may very well be true, you know? But I'm wanting, you know, when I would take my daughter to movies, you know, like a, whether it be an animated thing or whatever, you know, y… and what they're so clever about is that they would put jokes in there that the kids wouldn't get, but the adults…

22:03Jawad Mir... So now you're interested. So that's the idea behi… you know, it's like, yeah, you know? I mean, if you're 90 years old, you want, I wanna en… still enjoy movies, you know? Any kinda movie. I don't want it to be classified like that's YA and that's this and that's that.

22:17Stephen HerekYeah.

22:18Jawad MirYeah. So anyway, but Mr. Holland was, you know, on its surface, I guess, considered more of an adult, you know, film, you know? So, and again, talk about having g… and that's my k… we work our asses off doing these things, and, Mr. Holland was sort of the quintessential working our butts off, but then we played hard.

22:41Stephen HerekYeah.

22:41Jawad MirI mean, the whole crew. I mean, we, it started slow, but, and that includes the actors and stuff. We ended up, terrorizing this one particular karaoke... And terror, I mean that jokingly. We didn't really terrorize.

22:55Stephen HerekYeah.

22:55Jawad MirKinda took it over. I gotta be careful with what I say now, 'cause the world is so different in terms of…

23:02Stephen HerekYou know what? I get it, but just keep going. You're doing great. You're doing…

23:05Jawad MirWell, I wouldn't say... So I, we went to this karaoke, and we just bonded, like, in this huge way. I mean, you know, it, with Richard and Jay Thomas, and literally PAs and costume designers and, you know, the camera people and whatnot. We ended up having, like, 70 people now y… on a Saturday night, you know, like, doing karaoke, you know, together. But yet when we would go to work on Monday, you know, everybody was totally professional. There was no, you know, nobody took advantage of, you know, anything or, you know, it's like…

23:40Jawad Mir... "This is my job," you know? No. Ye… yeah, I had a, you know, a Jagermeister, you know, with the director, you know, just on a Saturday night, however, nobody tried to take advantage of that, you know? I mean, and it was j… it was, it was just so much fun. I mean, you know, we totally... Anyway, we bonded. It was great, you know? It was one of those that nobody ever wanted it to end, but of course, things end and, then it was the long, post-production to get it to the screen. But anyway, it turned out really nicely

24:14Stephen HerekYeah, no, it... No, you're fine. Don't worry. Listen, I love listening to these stories because, you know, there's something... They're very meaningful because we, a lot of times, people, in our world, in our different professions, they always look at people who are successful as in, like, successful. They never try to find out how they got there, like what kind of dirt they had to go through…

24:37Jawad MirRight

24:37Stephen Herek... To become, to become... You know, it's, it's just…

24:39Jawad MirYeah

24:39Stephen Herek... One of those worlds that we live in now. And Mr. Holland's Opus, it came out in 1995, and then the interesting thing was that I had a, the t… you went back, you know, going back to what you said about being accessible and appealing to everyone, I mean, who doesn't have a teacher that has, you know, has some kind of impact, on their life? I'm, I'm pretty sure everybody has. And it was around the same time, I think it was the same year, I was in my, I was in grade 12 and I had an English teacher. She, Mrs. Brownley, she was really tough. Like, she was really tough on me, and I couldn't stand her at the time. And, but later on I realized that's, she and another professor in university, they were really tough on me. Those are the only two people I remember. I have no clue who the rest of the teachers were. You know, bec… because they push your buttons and they see something in you, and they push you, and that's what Mr., you know, Holland's Opus, like, there's an arc of, Mr., the Holland's character, you know, how he didn't wanna teach in the beginning and kinda the impact…

25:45Jawad MirRight

25:45Stephen Herek... That he had in the end. But yeah, you know, just talking about that, but in terms of the story of Glen Ho… Holland, how did you come across it? Like, was it, was it a script that you was given to you or you had come across the story?

26:02Jawad MirI'd just done Three Musketeers, and… ... And I spent a lot of time in Vie… that's where we shot it, in Vienna. Spent a lot of time, and I was really tired and all, and, that's when I started thinking, I started... Of course, but, because the movies I'd done had become somewhat s… you know, successful, you know, you start getting sent, everybody wants you to read their script and whatnot. So I had a few scripts just laying around, and there were people that were, I don't know if it happens as much anymore, but, there were t… sometimes people, you know, they'd write a script, and they would have a briefcase handcuffed to them or something like that, and then they would go, and it's like, "I'm not leaving," you know, I don't know. I mean, just strange shit, you know? So there's this script that I was going through it, and it actually was called Mr. Herrick's Opus, but it was H-E…

26:51Jawad Mir... R-R-I-C-K, so it wasn't spelled like my last name. And I actually passed over it at first because I thought this was some, I bet this guy is just putting on the cover page, you know, the name of the person that they want, you know, to read it, you know?

27:07Stephen HerekRight.

27:07Jawad MirAnd then they can change the name, and so that's why I, you know, I was like, "Oh my God, I don't know." Anyway, a week later or so I come back to it and I go, "You know what? Let me read this," you know, 'cause there, everything else that I'm reading just, I just, I'm not really responding to. So I read it, and I'm like, "Oh my God, this is, this is exactly what I'm looking for." I mean, I mean, it need, it needed a bit of work, you know, and all that, but there were... I mean, I was really, I was crying. I mean, you know, in certain are… I mean, in the areas, the iconic areas now, you know, the, you know, Mr. Holland s… you know, singing to his deaf son and, you know, of course the ending and so forth, and I'm just like choked up. And I'm going, "Wow, this is the kind of movie..." I mean, I've been doing everything for laughs. I would love to make people cry.

27:59Stephen HerekYeah.

27:59Jawad MirI mean, legitimately cry. So, I went in, you know, I went in there under the auspices of another movie, 'cause I hadn't heard anything about Mr. Holland. And this was at Interscope. They wanted me to do another film. I had done Bill and Ted for them.

28:20Jawad MirSo I went in, I said, "Yes, I'll go to the meeting for this other movie," which will re… remain nameless, 'cause I don't wanna be disparaging to, you know, somebody else or another movie. But, so I immediately stopped, Robert Cort was, the guy. You know, I did two minutes of like, "Hey, how you doing?" All that kind of stuff, and I said, "Look, I know I'm here for X movie, but I really wanna talk about Mr. Herrick's Opus." And so I spent the next 45 minutes just saying, "I, you know, I love this film. Oh my God, you know, I..." All these things. And he's just like dumbfounded, you know, because he was, I kinda hoodwinked him, you know, into taking this meeting. And he said, "Well, this is a lot to think about." And, it turns out that the reason he was being a little, they were gonna put the movie in turnaround, 'cause they weren't really getting much traction on it.

29:20Jawad MirThey were apparently owed, Patrick, and I can't remember his last name, the writer of the film. ... Anyway, Patrick, they owed him a really large sum of money if they didn't renew the option or to renew the option. Otherwise, they were just gonna put it in turnaround, 'cause they didn't wanna pay, you know…

29:38Stephen HerekRight

29:38Jawad Mir... That figure. This changed their thinking and M… Richard Dreyfuss was, I didn't know this until after they said, "Yes, Steve, you know, we want you to make this movie", Richard was also attached to it. Now Richard at this time wasn't the hottest guy, you know, he wasn't the '80s, you know, Close Encounters…

29:58Stephen HerekYeah

29:59Jawad Mir... Guy where everything he made just turned to gold. And so I said, "He's gonna be great. I mean, this is, it's gonna be great." So they re… they picked up the option, you know, and we turned the script around and what... But anyway, that's how I, there's a lot of stories, and I, immediately we started going to these stories, and we'll be here till, you know, like, the sun…

30:21Stephen HerekRight

30:22Jawad Mir... Is going down. So, anyway, that's how I got started with that. Sorry that I…

30:27Stephen HerekNo, it's, it's, it makes…

30:29Jawad MirI get going, I get going, you can't stop.

30:31Stephen HerekIt's, it's, it's all good. I love chatting. But then for me, it's like a learning thing every day, talking to different people as well, so I love it.

30:38Jawad MirYeah.

30:38Stephen HerekI appreciate it.

30:39Jawad MirYeah, great.

30:39Stephen HerekAnd, you know, i… in terms of the actual story that's in the film, you know, obviously for creative purposes, you take some liberties to change things or to add something. How... Was there anything in there that was, not small, something that was, you know, part of the bigger plot, whether it was his, son's story or the affair that he has, and all those little moments, was there anything that was not based on, like from the actual story that you guys kind of took some creative license?

31:19Jawad MirWell, first of all, Mr. Holland is actually... By the way, that was my first change, was to change Mr. Herrick to Mr. Holland.

31:26Stephen HerekRight.

31:26Jawad MirOr, I mean, actually the ri… Pat… Patrick Duncan, that's

31:30Stephen HerekYeah

31:31Jawad Mir... He, I said there's no way that I could do a movie, even though it's spelled differently, with my name on it, because I can just see the critics going absolutely nuts, you know, with, that. So we changed it to Mr. Holland. I asked him a question about Mr. H… Mr. Holland is not based on... I… i… it's an amalgamation of teachers, you know, for him.

31:51Stephen HerekOh.

31:51Jawad MirIt's not one v… So m… pretty much everything is fabricated, you know? 'cause his original conc… it's like wouldn't it be... I mean, his initial conflict is like a teacher, a music teacher, who ends up having a son who is deaf. What do you do with that, you know? And that was his initial springboard, you know, into, you know, your

32:18Stephen HerekYeah

32:18Jawad Mir... His, well, this opus, you know? And so it's, there isn't any,.. Look, there may, I never really quizzed him, th… because there may be, I'm sure that there are certain scenes and whatnot that, you know, are somewhat taken from his life, you know? Actually, there is one that I put in there. The, 'cause this is based on, 'cause I was a football player back in high school.

32:45Jawad MirAnd, we, I got approached by the drama department, to be dancers in a, play there, because they were having a hard time getting people in. You know, they weren't selling out and whatnot. And it was a play called The Merry Widow, and we played these Russian dancers, you know?

33:06Jawad MirAnd now we didn't have any dialogue, you know, but we danced, you know, because we were athletic or whatever. I guess that was the theory behind it. But we a… we busted our asses, you know, to be good at this, because we didn't want people laughing at us. I mean, that was, you know, we wanted to be good. So we ended up being pretty good, and it worked for them because everybody wanted to see us fall on our ass. Anyway, when Jay Thomas, in the, you know, when they're starting a new decade and they're trying to figure out how to save the, you know, 'cause ultimately one of the subplots is saving the arts, you know? And, I said, "Why don't we..." So that was based on my experience…

33:42Jawad Mir... You know, in life, you know? But everything else, look, I never quizzed him on the, you know, like the romance between, you know... Well, to me it's still a muse. It's not really, it... I mean, it's puppy love on her part, you know? And him, it's fascinated with the idea of what used, what he used to be, what he wants to be, what she has that she could be, and that she, you know. So it's all these things. So it's not really a true love. I mean, it's just a, you know, i… if anything, it's an infatuation, but

34:16Stephen HerekYeah. I was gonna…

34:17Jawad MirYeah. Yeah, so

34:18Stephen HerekNo, the…

34:18Jawad MirSo it's not really based on anything. It's fabricated

34:20Stephen Herek... The reason I asked that, because I googled it, I watched it, after a long time this morning, and then after I watched it and I googled it, and it said it's based on a true story. That st… that's why where I got it from. Like, oh, so…

34:35Jawad MirWell, look, u… un… unless, u… unl… these are the conversations I have with Patrick, you know? So I…

34:39Stephen HerekYeah

34:40Jawad Mir... I, you know…

34:40Stephen HerekThat's okay

34:41Jawad Mir... He's the guy who wrote it, you know, so I don't, I... Now maybe there's more behind it, you know, than meets the eye, but like I say, it's a…

34:47Stephen HerekNo worries

34:47Jawad Mir... Combination of a lot of teachers. Well, two or three of them, for sure, you know? And like I say, some of the scenes may be based on some things, but it's not really based on a true story.

34:58Stephen HerekGot it.

34:59Jawad MirYeah.

34:59Stephen HerekWhat was the most challenging scene for you to film, from the story's standpoint, on any given day?

35:11Jawad MirWell

35:16Stephen HerekOr let me rephrase that. What was the most challenge scene to formulate into a proper scene, like with a story…

35:24Jawad MirRight

35:24Stephen Herek... And link it up to everything else?

35:25Jawad MirWell, the hardest, the hardest one was,.. Look, the, there's always stories within stories. First of all the deaf actors in the movie are actually deaf.

35:40Stephen HerekYeah.

35:40Jawad MirRight? So now that's something, that was a learning curve for me, you know, because at the beginning, you know, we started casting, you know, people that could hear to play deaf, right? And this is just naivete on my part, you know, this has, you know. But it was not, it was fast. Within 24 hours, we had the, head of, the Los Angeles Deaf school community and, you know, and pushing, you know, getting, opening up the doors for, the deaf community, you know, for not only entertainment, but everywhere, you know? And he said, "We will boycott your film. You will not get any support from us, and we will boycott your film," you know. And I think this guy was very nice. He, by the way, none of, none of this was like…

36:25Stephen HerekDifferent from today.

36:27Jawad MirI'm sorry, what?

36:28Stephen HerekI said it's different from today. Today everybody would be up in arms.

36:30Jawad MirHe's got... No, he was great. He really was great. He was very firm. He was very, you know, and it was a very educa… you know, and I just told him I'm coming at it a place from ignorance. You know, I… I just assumed that I, you know, 'cause I have like five or six people that I have to cast, you know, here. You know, and I just imagined that this world is small, you know? It turns out…, ... It's bigger than I think, thought. You know, so, and he goes, "Has he, have you even tried?" And I go, "Honestly, no." So we immediately pulled back, you know, all the casting search, you know, from the hearing community and started to go out, you know, to the deaf community. So, Anthony, who played the older, role…, ... Was a professional actor. You know? Joe, this was his first movie. But however, he was doing school plays and stuff like that, you know, and he, everybody, you know, not everybody except the baby.

37:32Jawad MirThe baby at the m… at that time, I don't know, you know, it was diagnosed with basically 100% hearing loss., the, I wanna say, I can't remember how old, eight, seven, eight, something like that. He couldn't hear either and he was, it was affecting his speech. And so we, but we cast him because he looked great. He, 'cause we already ca… we cast Anthony first and then we kinda worked our way backwards, you know, from there for looks, you know, to try to, you know, get them to look like that's how they would grow up. Sure... So this was the hardest. It's a small scene. Now, this is kinda based a little bit on my mom, Glenn's, some of the words she says and, 'cause my sister, was, she had Down syndrome., and we as a family, you know, it was this, you know, being able to communicate and just have a relationship, you know.

38:35Jawad MirOf course you learn, you know, and you can tell just by facial m… you know, whatever how. And she could speak reasonably well but not that great, so you really had to work at it. So the scene where I just wanna talk to my son, where Glenn has a breakdown, you know, there, it was, because we, god, I'm so bad, I can't remember the kid's name. Anyway, we had, it's like when you, y… we had people off set, that could sign, you know?, s… and we would position him so that he could see, you know, and position, you know, our off-camera, you know, communicators so that he could follow along, you know, with what they, what Richard and Glenn were, you know, saying. So it was really, it was tough for Glenn because there was all this outside distraction, you know, people moving about and, you know, all of this. The kid was supposed to be kinda wailing pretty much throughout, you know, the scene.

39:40Jawad MirI did, when I did…... Her closeup, we did take him off the set, you know, so that she could get a closeup without, you know, the distraction. But the thing is, it worked because that's what ha… that's what happens, you know? I mean, you have to fight, you know, to be heard, you know? A… and you have to fight to get your, you know, because you love your kid, you know, but it's so frustrating, you know, to not be able to have what you would consider a normal, you know, relationship. So that was tough. I mean, it was only like a page and a half or something, but it took a while to get to, you know, to get, you know, in the can because it was not your normal, you know, acting situation, you know? And a… again, it was kind of, I didn't, you know, I didn't plan to have all these off-camera people. That was something…... That became spur of the moment, you know? You know, it was like, okay, I didn't, I honestly, 'cause I was told he could lip read.

40:41Jawad MirWell, okay. You know, yeah, I mean, I think he was se… you know, so yeah, he could lip read, but you probably have to concentrate and all this. Now all of a sudden you're, and timing, you know, you have to try to get timing… Yeah... All of that. That's where editing comes in, too. You know, it's like, okay, I know I can do this, I can do this, do this off camera, you know, yada. So yeah, that was to start setting up, okay, well, let's do, this. Let's, you know, can you stand over there and then just while Richard is talking, sign, you know. Same with Glenn. You know, with whatever, you know, so that he can see, so that he can do what I'm asking him to do physically, you know, at the right time. So anyway, that's a long story again, because it was, and kudos to Glenn. Oh my God, I mean, she gave, I mean, and she didn't really wanna go, she wanted to soft sell it, you know, and make it more of a quiet scene. Yeah. And I was so, because I witnessed my mother go through the very same thing, and it was, as a kid, I mean, you're crying too when you're watching your mom have a breakdown, you know?

41:50Jawad MirAnd so that's kinda where I pushed Glenn towards basically having a breakdown. And it worked. It, you know, I mean, I know there's many different ways to skin a cat, but that particular way… Right... It, I mean, there's others, it could work as well, but that worked quite well for me. So anyway, that was… Yeah, no... That was probably the most diffi… look, there's others technically that became, all the musical stuff, you know, because I know I'm not gonna use the whole song, you know?, But we ended up shooting that, and we didn't, you know, camera-wise, now ag… this is a reasonably, I mean, we had a decent amount of money, but we didn't have enough money. I think Technocranes, I don't even think they existed at that point. There was versions of it, like a Luma Crane or something like that, you know, where… 'Cause I had all these shots in mind, and so we had to, had the camera guys making these strange contraptions to try to get these particular shots. And then the length of the songs was like, 'cause I didn't, you know, I tried to cut them down, and then Richard and I got into a little bit of an argument because how do you know where to cut?

42:58Jawad MirHow do you know where to cut? So finally I said, "Look, let's just shoot the whole thing." Of course it drove the producers crazy because it was taking longer. You know, we shot, we're shooting miles of film, you know, because these songs…

43:08Stephen HerekYeah

43:08Jawad Mir... You know, they're, we had three or four cameras going, you know, constantly. And, you know, that's the days of film where, you know, every 10 minutes, man, you have to change it out, and it was, extraordinary. So it took a while, and that was just difficult logistically, you know, to try to get some of the stuff done and then keeping everybody interested, you know, during, you know, this period of time. Anyway, it all worked.

43:30Stephen HerekYeah.

43:30Jawad MirIt just, it became a little harder than expected.

43:33Stephen HerekSure. A… and the names of, Cole, I just Googled it, so the younger, one was Nicholas John Renner, and the 15-year-old one was Joseph Anderson.

43:45Jawad MirOkay, so with Nick, yeah, Nick was the one where at the time, you know, he, yeah, he was, he didn't speak very well, and, you know, so he, and total on pro. He, you know, he'd never done any of this kind of stuff before. He's a great kid. I mean, just a really…

44:07Stephen HerekYeah

44:07Jawad Mir... Really great kid. And he got, boy, he, talk about method acting. Holy moly, man, he, you know, when it was explained to him what he needed to do, I mean, he understood it. He, and he, and he went there, you know, and much to Glenn's she didn't appreciate it, you know. She finally became to appreciate it, but, anyway.

44:29Stephen HerekYeah.

44:29Jawad MirI promised her a close-up.

44:30Stephen HerekNo.

44:30Jawad MirYou get your close-up, Glenn.

44:33Stephen HerekIt had, the film had such important, you know, m… there's only one film that, you know, about a teach, from a teacher standpoint that I can recall is Dead Poets Society by Peter Weir, and starring Robin Williams, and it's, it's just one of those things that th… th… when, even when I watched it again this morning, I mean, I remember the basic, the premise. I forgot completely that there was a deaf son story. I forgot about the affair, and I thought in the, I remember watching like him performing at the end. I totally forgot about the whole, you know, the climax and the surprise that he gets at the end. And that scene where his former student is speaking on the podium and, you know, how you are not rich and famous, but you don't have to be rich and famous. You have to, you have made everyone's life in this room, you know, had some influence on it.

45:34Stephen HerekAnd the way Richard Dreyfuss responds to that with his emotion, I mean, that was one of the most powerful scenes. It was so well done, and then I was so glad that you stayed on him for the, as long as you could instead of, you know, cutting it back and forth. But that was, that was phenomenal. I just wanted to sort of convey that to you. It was very powerful.

45:53Jawad MirI appreciate, I appreciate that. I mean, one of my mantras was, I don't want anybody to cry in the movie. I want the audience to cry. I want you to constantly hold, I mean, fight through it. No matter what, fight through tears. That included Glenn when she realized when, Rowena, when she's in the, in that Rowena and that there was an infatuation there.

46:22Jawad MirAnd there's just this one tear, you know, that comes, and that wasn't manufactured by glisten or anything. That was…

46:29Stephen HerekYeah

46:29Jawad Mir... Total, 'cause she wanted to break down there a little bit, a little bit more, and I said, "No. We're, we're, I'm staying with the rule." The only time that I broke the rule, you know, was, for Richard at the end. I said, "Now you can, you know, it's okay. It's okay to cry. You can cry. You know, I mean, big if you want, you know?" So anyway, whatever. Yeah, I'm glad that it affected you. You know, that's good.

46:55Stephen HerekYeah, no, it was great, and I think the whole beautiful thing about the film like that where you follow his life for 30 years, right? You don't realize that the last part of that film when you're watching it, like when I watched it, when I watched it back in '95, I watched it as a student.

47:16Jawad MirRight.

47:16Stephen HerekRight? I watched it today. I, not that I have, you know, had a, you know, 30-plus year career, but just having to go through all those trial and tribulations to be where you, where I am or where anybody else, it gets to you. It really, because you know your story. Everybody knows their story, and you can rel… you can find these little moments, and you can connect them to your life and your story.

47:41Jawad MirYeah.

47:41Stephen HerekAnd that's how it becomes powerful.

47:43Jawad MirYeah. No, that's cool. I mean, it was a, it was kind of, 'cause it didn't follow the traditional three-act, you know, format.

47:49Stephen HerekYeah.

47:50Jawad MirIt, in a weird way it's kind of episodic, because it's like 10 or 15 minute increments based on decade. You know, and so it was not your traditional, and that's, that's also what made it hard to cut down, because when I showed, I, the first time I showed it to Interscope, it was like two hours and 50 minutes.

48:16Stephen HerekOh.

48:16Jawad MirAnd when they asked me, they asked me the running time, and I go, "Well, it's two hour..." And they go, "You're showing it to us that long?" And I go, "Guys, I don't, you gotta watch it. I mean, I don't know what to say. This is not me trying to be like, 'Oh my God, this is, you know, it has to be this long. It has to be this long.'" Look, the first cut was like five hours. I mean…

48:38Stephen HerekOf course. Yeah

48:40Jawad Mir... It was, it was massive.

48:41Stephen HerekIt always is like that.

48:42Jawad MirOh my God. But it, I, it's like if at the end of it you... And I have to admit, they, to their credit, they were blown away. They go, "Oh my God, this is..." You know, they were g… you know, like, it just saying, this is one, this is, this isn't just a, it's like an experience. I mean, you know, I, y… look, you're right, but with a big however. However, you do have to make it shorter.

49:10Stephen HerekYeah.

49:11Jawad MirAnd I'm, I'm like, "Oh my God." You know, I, yeah, it w… yeah, it took a while. I have to admit, it took a while, because we didn't take chainsaws out. I mean, we were cutting with a butter knife, you know? And…

49:22Stephen HerekYeah

49:22Jawad Mir... Because it honestly, every little thing, you know, it did change things. Sometimes maybe not, maybe s… subtly, but sometimes it changed. But when you start taking chunks out, it ended up really ruining, you know, because like I say, it wasn't your traditional three-ar, you know, three-act flow where it's just this constantly, you know, upward mobility. It still goes up, but it's, but it, there are these, look, all those interstitials, you know, between decades, those we fabricated. They were not in the script, you know?

49:55Jawad MirAnd because when I saw it, I realized that a lot of stuff doesn't make sense unless you know what was happening in the world at that time, you know? I mean, 'cause all of a sudden people are just talking, you know, and it felt not real. It didn't, just didn't feel real. So when I started putting all these stock footage images and, you know, the music and whatnot that was, you know, you know, pertinent at the time, then that became kind of the glue that started to give it its, you know, I guess upward momentum, you know?

50:30Stephen HerekYeah

50:30Jawad Mir... And that, yeah, it, that this is somebody's life, you know, that you're dealing with. And you do, you feel differently. I mean, I honestly wish I could change my name every 10 years, because you are kind of a different person, you know? I mean…

50:41Stephen HerekYeah, you are

50:42Jawad Mir... It's like the same. When you look back on your, you know, like 14, 15, 16-year-old self, I'm sure, look, you're the same, but I'm sure it's, you're different, you know, than you were probably, you know, then. Anyway, yeah, that was, it w… it was, it took a long, a lot longer than I... Look, normally, you know, you shoot the movie, you know, yeah, contractually you get 10 weeks to do this, and then you have previews and all that. So then I'll, you know, then it's a, you know, it, what is it, 10 weeks is what, three months or something like that?

51:18Stephen HerekTwo and a half months, yeah.

51:20Jawad MirYeah. And, you know, then you go through that. There's another month, and then there's another month for, you know, putting the music and the sound on and, you know, all that kinda stuff. So all told maybe five months, you know, and then it's being released. And oh my God, this took a while. It took probably eight or nine months, you know, to... 'Cause then we, I started having previews and

51:41Stephen HerekYep

51:42Jawad Mir... And people were responding to it in a big way, but I was getting a lot of pressure to keep making it shorter, you know? And actually, when you talk about the, Rowena, that, I, when I left everything in, it did look like Mr. Holland was reciprocating, and that was not what was intended, you know, at all. We wanted him to be infatuated. Yes, she's a pretty girl, and all of that, but it really had nothing to do with sex. It all had to do with, you know, what she represents, you know? And so we did have to keep cutting back on that, you know, and to try to shift the pendulum, you know, so that it does feel more like a muse and less like this tawdry, you know, that he's being inspirational. Yes, and we wanted to lead them o… a… you know, we want, I mean, there's all these little balls that you're juggling.

52:42Jawad MirI mean, there are some things that I wanted to keep in there, you know, because it made it more interesting, you know?

52:48Stephen HerekHuman. Human.

52:49Jawad MirYeah. Yeah.

52:50Stephen HerekYou made it human.

52:51Jawad MirYeah. No, exactly.

52:51Stephen HerekThat's basically what…

52:52Jawad MirSo I, there are some ba… there were some verbal battles here and there, and so forth and so on. But, anyway, it turned out to be what it is, and, some people…

53:03Stephen HerekAbsolutely

53:03Jawad Mir... I have to admit, I mean, some people, it didn't matter. You, yeah, you know, it didn't shift the pendulum entirely. There were a number of people that kept thinking that Mr. Holland, "go get her, Mr. Holland. You know, get her." It's like, "You go, boy."

53:18Stephen HerekYeah.

53:18Jawad MirAnd I was like, "Oh my God." But, that's not what I wanted, so. And it got better. It got better. The short... Yeah. So anyway, whatever.

53:26Stephen HerekThat's good. Just before we close, what are you working on now, if whatever that you're open to talk about, anything upcoming?

53:36Jawad MirWell, the only thing that is real, yeah, 'cause I'm involved in a number of things that they're looking for financing for. And, based on what's happened in history for me with that, sometimes they get made, but most of the time they don't, you know? But anyway, it's another movie for Netflix. And it's called, it's, it's a rom-com.

54:01Jawad Mir... You know, it's called Mary X-Mas, and

54:05Stephen HerekOkay

54:06Jawad Mir... We had to put it on halt there 'cause of writers' strike and all that, you know, and stuff. So we're, and our lead actress, was pregnant. And she, that would ruin the whole, she can't be pregnant, you know, in this. So we're waiting for her to have her baby, and so we're...

54:21Stephen HerekOkay.

54:21Jawad MirAnd so we're, we will, start shooting it, we'll be finished shooting it, you know, like literally two or three days before Christmas, and it'll be out probably next year's Christmastime-ish.

54:33Stephen HerekGot it.

54:34Jawad MirAnd it's on Netflix, yeah.

54:35Stephen HerekSo you're already in production or you're in pre-production?

54:37Jawad MirNo, we started, it was kind of a soft prep, and we were, you know, doing some casting. But then… And we knew she was pregnant, but we thought that the timing, but the timing, it was becoming clear that it was gonna be very difficult to hide. And, so for that, like I say, I mean, she, it's not like we can write the pregnancy in, because it, she…

55:03Stephen HerekYeah Right

55:05Jawad Mir... You know, the idea of what this is, you know. So we c… we, everything's been put on hold. So no, we're, we… we'll start a full-fledged prep again about this, last week of August or so. So, and then…

55:15Stephen HerekPerfect

55:15Jawad Mir... Then we'll start shooting in October or something, yeah. So yeah.

55:19Stephen HerekThat sounds, that sounds, that…

55:20Jawad MirIt's called Mary X-Mas.

55:21Stephen HerekMary X-Mas.

55:21Jawad MirEx being an ex-boyfriend. Yeah.

55:25Stephen HerekGot it.

55:25Jawad MirYeah.

55:26Stephen HerekNo, looking forward to that. I would love to, if you have time, before we, you start, just to maybe chat about maybe some of your other work. That would be, it would be great.

55:37Jawad MirSure.

55:37Stephen HerekBut this was phenomenal. I mean, I absolutely loved talking to you. I love the film, and even watching it after almost 30 years, it still holds. So thank you so much.

55:48Jawad MirWell, thank you. Thank you for talking with me. It's, it's, it's, it's a highlight of my year so far.

55:55Stephen HerekI hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for watching and listening. Don't forget to subscribe, like, share, and comment, and do come back for another episode. Until then, have a great day.